You-Solve-It Mafia Game

[faithfool]

No screaming. It was an insane ammount of pressure to be put on your shoulders.

But the Day is over. Nothing to be done now.

Thank you for that. I just now realized that I should've put my only quasi-vote I threw out in color, so I'm not even sure it counted....

Og I suck. I appreciate you reminding of that Hawk. I don't know how I missed it before.

[Rysto]

Jeez, now even NAF has gone AWOL at a critical time.

[NAF1138]

Sorry, not AWOL. I just had an emergency at work I had to deal with, and I need to figure something out with MTGman.

I don't want to post the proper end of Day until I speak with him.

[NAF1138]

Sach is dead.

Sach was scum.

It might not make a difference. I am figuring some things out.

But let's give the final scum the 48 hour clock starting now. And the game may end in the middle of the night.

Sorry to end the Day on such an off note, but I need to do some figuring to try and keep things sort of fair for everyone.

Faith, or anyone watching on faith's behalf. Watch this space. I will have a final decision as soon as I possibly can.

[Rysto]

Please don't start the next Day early -- I'm gone until Saturday Night. If the Day does start early, don't lynch me before then, fellow Townie.

[faithfool]

Okay NAF. I'll make sure this time that my friend knows specifically what the hell he's talking about. Also, I've got the print outs of the posts I've mentioned, so I'll be going over those too until I'm able to get back online. Signing off for now.

[Hawkeyeop]

Sach is dead.

Sach was scum.

It might not make a difference. I am figuring some things out.

But let's give the final scum the 48 hour clock starting now. And the game may end in the middle of the night.

Sorry to end the Day on such an off note, but I need to do some figuring to try and keep things sort of fair for everyone.

Faith, or anyone watching on faith's behalf. Watch this space. I will have a final decision as soon as I possibly can.

Well, I'm guessing you are thinking of mod killing Faith, because technically she didn't vote. I'm obviously not impartial, but I say let it be decided on the field. Maybe her vote for Pleo will appear in blue if you squint really hard..

And yay for Sach. The person I was sure is scum, was for once, actually scum!!!!

Enjoy your trip Rysto

[Pleonast]

Thank the CEO you were right, Hawkeye. At least it isn't game over due to mislynch or no lynch.

[brewha]

G OOOOOO
TOWN!


Nice work guys!


::slinks back off to the depths of hell::

[Rysto]

Thank the CEO you were right, Hawkeye. At least it isn't game over due to mislynch or no lynch.
And now we can only hope it doesn't end by mod-kill, either.

[Hawkeyeop]

G OOOOOO
TOWN!


Nice work guys!


::slinks back off to the depths of hell::

Heh. When it looked like we weren't going to get a majority, I was set to vote for you :cool:

[fluiddruid]

Off to the new-fangled games forum with you!

[NAF1138]

Off to the new-fangled games forum with you!
WOOT!

[Hockey Monkey]

Found it!

[Mtgman]

Management has reached a decision regarding associate faithfool. While decisions like this are always difficult they are occasionally necessary. A deadline was set and specific goals delineated. Unfortunate circumstances are not necessarily exculpatory circumstances. The commitment management has made to all associates to stand by the rules for adequate performance in this arena must be met. As much leeway was given as was possible in this situation.

We regret to announce that faithfool a loyal associate, has been terminated.

Remaining associates:

Hawkeyeop
Pleonast
and
Rysto

Management apologizes for disturbing your evening. Enjoy the Night.

Steven

[Hawkeyeop]

So Game over?

[brewha]

...

[Hawkeyeop]

...

Why would you need to edit three dots?

[zuma]

Hopefully the quiet non-bolded user "and" will vote correctly tomorrow. If he's not killed tonight.

[brewha]

Why would you need to edit three dots?

You can't completely delete a post. I'm quite annoyed by the out come of this game and originally expressed my displeasure less than politely. But, I decided to bite my tongue until I read the off board explanation.

[Hawkeyeop]

You can't completely delete a post. I'm quite annoyed by the out come of this game and originally expressed my displeasure less than politely. But, I decided to bite my tongue until I read the off board explanation.

Gotcha. Maybe the remaining scum will agree with you and no lynch, so the game isn't decided by a modkill. You should still play the new game though. What fun is mafia if I can't accuse you of being scum.

[Pleonast]

Figures. Good game, everyone. This was the first game I've lasted until the end.

[NAF1138]

Dawn post is coming soon. I am letting MTGman write this one since I just haven't had time to write color the last few weeks.

[Pleonast]

What happened to soon?

Interesting real-life coincidence: I was just volunteered to go to a week-long management training course at a resort location. If we get spooky visions, I will know what to do!

[Hal Briston]

You also know what to do if management wastes your time in pointless meetings or frustrates your career goals. ;)

[NAF1138]

What happened to soon?

Interesting real-life coincidence: I was just volunteered to go to a week-long management training course at a resort location. If we get spooky visions, I will know what to do!


Not sure, I will check in with the man himself. Otherwise I will write a dawn of my own in the morning.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

What happened to soon?

Interesting real-life coincidence: I was just volunteered to go to a week-long management training course at a resort location. If we get spooky visions, I will know what to do!

Kill everyone?

[Mtgman]

Not sure, I will check in with the man himself. Otherwise I will write a dawn of my own in the morning.The moon shone bright overhead. Everyone relaxed. With no clouds and the cool air there were perfect conditions to view the total lunar eclipse. The Earth's penumbra began to slide over the moon as if a red, cancerous growth were devouring it. As the last sliver of bright white gave way to red and the eclipse entered totality there was a sudden shift. For two of you there was a sudden new perspective. Everyone had seen through someone else's eyes in the past, but this was different. All the other visions had happened with the rising of the sun, this moontime shift was new, and with the bloodred moon you could feel the ominous portents building.

You rose from your chair, or at least you felt like you did. Two bodies remained inert and three consciousnesses looked out through the same pair of eyes. The visions again. How you cursed them. Wiping out these sheep was supposed to be simple. Those damn visions had given evidence of you and your associates actions and made what should have been easy much more difficult. It wasn't quite fair of the universe to stack the deck against you like that, but here you were, at the end, and triumphant. Your fallen comrades would be avenged and the final associates terminated.

A moment passed, or maybe it was a lifetime. During that time the gestalt solidified. Every living mind within the monestary shared everything with each other, through the focus of the killer's mind. Life's lessons. Life's disappointments. Loves, and losses. A spiritual bonding on a level previously completely unsuspected, but still somehow familiar. As if this was how humans were meant to relate to each other, or how they could at the ultimate end of evolution. All shared, all understood, all accepted, all forgiven. Everyone was more than what they were a moment ago.

But some things still hadn't changed.

With the resigned step of a man late for a dentist's appointment, you stalked towards your first victim. One third of your shared consciousness recognized it's own face and tears flowed, but it was no longer possible to tell which eyes they flowed from. Were they the desperate tears of a victim unable to halt his doom? Were they the tears of joy from the killer at finally accomplishing his task? Were they tears from another associate, overwhelmed with guilt for failing to prevent the extermination of his teammates? Moments later the gestalt was made up of only two.

You straightened up and flexed your weary hands. Strangulation is much easier with a garotte or using your forearm. You'll keep that in mind if you ever need to kill somone again. This time you were taking the easy route. You dragged the lawnchair, with your final victim helplessly watching everything from your own vantage pont, to the wide platform over the sheer drop. From then it was the simplest thing in the world to push the front legs over the edge and let gravity do the rest.

They say a fall from great height kills the victim before they hit the ground. Heart failure is the reputed cause. Half of the gestalt knew that was not true. Through the killer's cold eyes you watched your own body slowly tumble end over end until, with a shock like you've never felt before, or will again, the end came.

The moon passed through the Earth's shadow and began to resume its bright white glow. Just a sliver, but it was enough to weaken the spell. You knew it would end soon, and you now knew why the monks built this place. The visions of death were wondrous, unique even. The ability to share minds and survive to bond with your fellows afterwards would have made them the strongest religious sect within miles. Every lunar eclipse they would literally merge minds and all would emerge changed and united in their purpose, having become closer than brothers born.

Had the CEO known of what would happen during the lunar eclipse? Was that his motive for bringing everyone to this haunted place? If so he hadn't had the courage to stick it through to this wondrous end. No one who lived through this experience would ever look at any other human quite the same way again.

Standing alone in the courtyard, next to the stiffening corpse of Rysto....





















Pleonast smiled.

Enjoy,
Steven

[NAF1138]

Check out the scum boards and the off site spoiler boards here

scum boards (http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=scum)

Spoiler boards (http://masontalk.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=info)

Give me 5 minutes to unhide them and take off the passwords.

Nice game scum. You earned this win.

[HazelNutCoffee]

YES! Anarchy! Death to the corporation!! w00t!

[Pleonast]

Kill everyone?Well, actually, it's easier if you have other people doing the killing. :D

I'm probably burdened with storyteller's curse now, right?

[Pleonast]

Oh, in my defense for future games, my vote count analysis was honest. The reason it pointed to Hockey was I used the false hypothetical that I was Town. If it had been done by someone who was actually Town, I think it would've pointed to me.

[sachertorte]

Pleonast smiled.
I would like to point out that Pleonast wanted to be the first killer because he was convinced that his play style would get himself lynched first. We talked him out of it, though ironically it was the dossiers themselves (which really were a huge pain to scum) that pushed Pleonast way down the kill queue.

Good job Pleonast!

Even though he left us early, I'm still impressed with One And Only Wanderers bold move to be truthful about his characteristic that was revealed on Day One. I don't think many players would be so courageous; and his action did much to confuse the Town.

And storyteller was quite good at looking past the lynch mob and focusing on scum. Too Good. :D

I think zuma did a fine job as well.

[faithfool]

I've briefly commandeered the laptop again (friend's now gone and changed shifts again) and see that the game is over, oh god and it's because of me. This isn't why I wished I'd have been lynched in the beginning, but I see now that wasn't a bad decision. I apologize terribly to the whole group for ending up basically being a non-participant and then, when I was here, sucking. My battle for internet access should've been more fervent. I just wish that I'd had access to something (like a Kinko's or what-have-you) out here in the freakin' sticks, but I stupidly assumed that as long as I knew the deadline, I could strong-arm my buddy into making sure I could get back in / on in enough time to have a clue. I soooo misread everything I'd know about the game previously. Which means I didn't know jack shit. :(

So once more I'm incredibly sorry for my screw-ups and for not having read the deadline time there correctly at the end. Hell, for not even getting the right day actually, since the other person who called me to clue me in on what was happening didn't tell me right. < smack smack smack > I thought there were still some more minutes on the clock. I wish that I'd figured out to do before what I did when I last logged off.... just give the one who used his cell my email pass word that he could periodically check it to see if I needed to find a way back here stat. And that brings me to now; he gave the head's up that I'd been mod lynched.

Sigh. You guys worked with me so much and I kept thinking (and being promised, but that's a different off-board story) it was going to get better, hence I'd be able to return and participate fully. I was trying to play well despite the fact that I should never have considered it in the first place. Man, what was I thinking? In the future, I'll stick to the word find instead.

So on that note, I'd like to congratulate the scum for winning and everyone else for playing such a great game. Also, to give major props to our mods for being awesome. I understand I know nothing about any of this, but from my perspective, you guys really went above and beyond. Maybe in the future, I'll try to get some of those links to the other boards (right?) to see what all I missed and didn't grasp. I'd at least like to learn what all I did wrong, if nothing else. But for right now, I suppose I won't keep aiming for staying connected to the Dope going since I don't have any more commitments. Things are still rough here for my loved ones and I'll just be thankful not to worry about keeping up with online stuff (except for what a better get done elsewhere, like email, before I go completely)....

So yeah, see, there are benefits to being computer-less! Last, to reiterate, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me play anyway. I can leave though with the knowledge that, right at the last moment, I saw ol' Pleo for what he was. Yep, that's what I did. :smack: Why didn't I realize my vote wasn't really cast??! ARGH!!!!


Peace guys.

~faithfool

[Pleonast]

faithfool, you should read the commentary thread linked to above by Mtgman. The people there are giving their honest insights on the game. It'll give you some perspective if what went right and wrong. Yes, there is griping about you, but someone pointed out something I think you should hear: this was one of the hardest Mafia games we've played to date. Experienced players were making bad decisions. A newbie like you had it doubly tough.

I hope you have the chance to play again, when you have more time.

[MHaye]

Faithfool, you might find it easier if you could join a game intended to introduce new players who have an interest. Hal Briston is supposed to be setting one up in the near future, so watch out for it and try again in a less hothouse atmosphere.

If you can't because of RL, well that's RL. Sometimes it's a little inconsiderate of our wishes. Hopefully they'll be played as demand crops up rather than being a one-off.

[Hawkeyeop]

So I'm done reading the spoiler spread, ready to post a missive and the board goes out. Argh!

First and foremost, I want to thank Naf and MTG and everyone else for allowing me to be introduced to mafia. While I disagree with the decision in regards to Faith, I do not feel that I have wasted my time. I enjoyed playing thoroughly, and even had a eureka, so that is how you find scum moment, at the end.

As regards to Faith I can see the argument to kill her. She did post towards the end of the day, but I would say it is a stretch to say she contributed. She didn't really express any opinions other then her attempted Pleo vote. Still I think it was the wrong call.

I'm going to go back to a sports analogy. When instant replay was first introduced in football a common problem kept occurring. A player fumbled, but the player was ruled to have not fumbled on the field and they play was whistled dead. The play could not be replayed, because the play stopped once the whistle was blown. So even if it was a fumble, and the other team recovered, they couldn’t get credit for it. Eventually, the NFL decided to have refs not blow the whistle and sort out what happens at the end. If the scum want to argue they got jibed fine, but I think it was worth playing out. We lost a potentially awesome endgame.

The other part of it is the nature of modkills. I believe they are a last resort only to be used when absolutely necessary. I see lynching lurkers as serving two purposes. One, lurkers make the game less interesting to play and watch. Two, lurkers, mostly if scum, give an unfair advantage to their side because they can't do anything lynch worthy. Neither issue is at play here. Killing Faith certainly didn't make the game more interesting, it ended it. Secondly, if anything, Faith's nonappearance made it harder for the town. Rules are rules, is not a valid justification to me. I think modkilling should be on case by case basis and only used to make the game better.

I think I did okay for my first game. I made some major mistakes, but I think I got better towards the end. I'm particularly proud of thinking Pleo's revealing first was a scummy action.

Oh and for the record, I would likely have voted for Pleo on the last day if I was still alive. The biggest reason being, I wouldn't expect scum to vote for each other until Faith showed up, but there were others. Looks like I wouldn't have been alive for it anyway though.

[Mtgman]

Did anyone who didn't know in advance figure out that last clue?

Enjoy,
Steven

[HazelNutCoffee]

I think modkilling should be on case by case basis
faithfool's mod-kill WAS on a case-by-case basis. If the mods had been stricter about the rules she would have been modkilled ages ago.

It's impossible for anyone to be objective about this. No one wants their side to be modkilled, and faithfool's death sucked in a lot of ways. But from a scum perspective, the mods did lean towards pro-Town (as has been mentioned on the spoiler boards) and faithfool's modkill was way overdue. The main reason I'm unhappy with the whole thing is because it doesn't seem like a clean win.

All that said, it was a good game, despite various and sundry difficulties. Thanks mods!

[Hawkeyeop]

faithfool's mod-kill WAS on a case-by-case basis. If the mods had been stricter about the rules she would have been modkilled ages ago.

It's impossible for anyone to be objective about this. No one wants their side to be modkilled, and faithfool's death sucked in a lot of ways. But from a scum perspective, the mods did lean towards pro-Town (as has been mentioned on the spoiler boards) and faithfool's modkill was way overdue. The main reason I'm unhappy with the whole thing is because it doesn't seem like a clean win.

All that said, it was a good game, despite various and sundry difficulties. Thanks mods!

I just don't see how Faithfool's nonparticipation was an unfair town advantage. How would the scum have been better off if Faithfool was a more active player?

[sachertorte]

I'm not sure if the post-mortem will happen here or on the forbidden thread but I'll post a few thoughts.

I read (skimmed) the spoiler thread and I have a few comments.

When we designed the fake dossiers we locked ourselves into the kill order. We decided our strategy would be to have one player kill until lynched and designed the fake dossiers to match that strategy. Rotating killers was not a option anymore. The reason is that the benefit of having one killer is we could better control which scum would get fingered by the reveal. No killer would reveal the same scum more than once. This was key to the design.
The problem we faced was that we assumed that each reveal would point to townies as well as scum. We did not know (and could not have known at the time) that the scum attributes were strongly unique to scum. Anyway that was the reasoning behind the dossier design and why we had the same killer kill until lynched.

In the beginning, I really was against dossier reveals because I considered them anti-town. I thought that traits would point to more townies than scum (I didn't know how unique the traits were at the time). So I wasn't really lying about that. Just wrong about the dossier make-up.

We just got lucky that by the end of the game the remaining Town had given up on the dossiers altogether.

Also, I had no idea that the last trait pointed to my public trait. I didn't even try to decode the message, and when Town declined I thought great! I was confused about brewha not revealing that the same killer killed him. That almost got us when Pleonast trip up knowing what was what. The real bummer would have been I had a defense for my trait reveal that depended on everyone knowing the same killer killed brewha. I didn't realize how lucky we got there.

[sachertorte]

Oh and for the record, I would likely have voted for Pleo on the last day if I was still alive. The biggest reason being, I wouldn't expect scum to vote for each other until Faith showed up, but there were others. Looks like I wouldn't have been alive for it anyway though.

Which is why the whole faithfool situation was so problematic for NAF and mtgman. The stage was set, and scum played according to the rules as stated. Pleonast didn't vote for me because he was playing for the win. The win that would have occurred from a no-lynch. If faithfool had been active, Pleonast would have voted for me much earlier.

The extension of the day plus faithfools late appearance was just a really unfortunate situation for the Mods to deal with. Either way, someone was going to get the short stick. If the Mods hadn't mod-killed faithfool, they would have been giving the game to Town, which isn't better. So they stuck to the rules and mod-killed her.

And as HazelNutCoffee noted, faithfool did not meet the requirements set out by NAF to avoid mod-kill on Day 7. Mod-killing is sucky, but stating that a mod-kill will happen if certain criteria are not met, then not mod-killing isn't good either.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I just don't see how Faithfool's nonparticipation was an unfair town advantage. How would the scum have been better off if Faithfool was a more active player?
If you don't DO anything in a game, you can only be lynched based on your status as lurker per se, which makes it difficult for people to accuse you of anything since you haven't DONE anything. Also, I don't think faithfool's inactivity directly affected us, but it made things more difficult for everyone. She became untouchable when it came to lynches because her absence had an excuse. Her votes became a wildcard since she'd wait til the absolute last minute to post them, making strategy difficult (yeah, we should have just killed her earlier on, I suppose, to avoid that problem). But I think the biggest factor was that the scum felt that she was being give all these chances because she was town.

Anyway, it's over, and no one is going to be perfectly happy with the way things ended. Over on the spoiler boards we've just agreed to disagree. :)

[Hawkeyeop]

If you don't DO anything in a game, you can only be lynched based on your status as lurker per se, which makes it difficult for people to accuse you of anything since you haven't DONE anything. Also, I don't think faithfool's inactivity directly affected us, but it made things more difficult for everyone. She became untouchable when it came to lynches because her absence had an excuse. Her votes became a wildcard since she'd wait til the absolute last minute to post them, making strategy difficult (yeah, we should have just killed her earlier on, I suppose, to avoid that problem). But I think the biggest factor was that the scum felt that she was being give all these chances because she was town.

I agree in general, but I considered Faithfool more or less confirmed, so I wouldn't of voted her regardless of her level of posting. Based on Rysto's actions on the last day, I think he felt the same way.

Anyway, it's over, and no one is going to be perfectly happy with the way things ended. Over on the spoiler boards we've just agreed to disagree. :)

Yup, but as I was not there being not dead and all, I figured I at least got to have my say. On to the next game.

[Idle Thoughts]

Great game to read.

[zuma]

OK, last post on this game from me... but I have a question for Pleo.

Assuming faith didn't get modkilled, who would you have killed in the final night? I made the argument in the spoiler thread that if in fact faith came to life, if I were you I'd kill her, based on her being "confirmed" town, and the possibility that the two remaining townies might vote for each other (I forgot the details, but either hawk said he was suspicious of rysto, or vice-versa). I hadn't considered dossiers, and where that might have led. What was your strategy, if you had one, for the final day?

[Rysto]

Well, I'm annoyed at how this went down -- especially considering that NAF said "90 minutes extension at least", and then cut things off at 60 minutes -- but it's not like the Town deserved to win this one anyway.

ETA: Apparently he said 60. :smack:

[Rysto]

Did anyone who didn't know in advance figure out that last clue?

Enjoy,
Steven
I didn't. As it happens, there's an ER episode titled "Sand and Water" in which a lesbian women is put on life-support against her own wishes and those of her partner's, but I thought that the connection was too tenuous to bring up.

"Sand" referring to deserts; the song talking about death referring to pyramids as burial grounds? That's ridiculously tenuous.

I read the spoiler boards, and I see a lot of people criticizing me for being so down on dossier analysis. I think that those people are suffering from Perfect Knowledge Syndrome. We townies knew two facts about the dossiers:

1) The source of the dossiers was figured out, at least in part, by four different Townies on Day One.
2) The scum lied about their dossiers.

Given that, what exactly were we supposed to conclude about the dossiers? If I made a mistake in my analysis, it was for giving Pleo townie points for revealing the Bombs trait instead of correctly realizing that it was a null tell, as story would say.

Something has occurred to me: had we done the three-player showoff, the night-killed player would have revealed that brewha's killer was the same as the three previous ones. Would Pleo's slip about brewha's killer been enough to out him? I must admit, I probably wouldn't have picked up on it.

The scum have only ever won M2 and this game, right? Does it say something that the scum have won the only two games I've survived past Night 2? Given how poorly I played in both games, I'm thinking not.

[USCDiver]

Something has occurred to me: had we done the three-player showoff, the night-killed player would have revealed that brewha's killer was the same as the three previous ones. Would Pleo's slip about brewha's killer been enough to out him? I must admit, I probably wouldn't have picked up on it.

Only indirectly. Pleonast had not done a night kill to that point and after sachertorte's lynching he would have performed his first kill that final night. Of course, I can only imagine the town's confusion had another 'virgin' killer emerged the following morning.

[Rysto]

"Sand" referring to deserts; the song talking about death referring to pyramids as burial grounds? That's ridiculously tenuous.
Actually, after thinking about this I'm a bit annoyed. If I had tried to build a case based on that clue, I would have been lynched for trying to bus a townie with an absolutely bogus case. The clues in this game need to be obvious once you've come up with the answer: the "Duke in Sicily" clue was brilliant for this reason. This obviously didn't affect the game -- sach was lynched anyway -- but if a similar ruleset is ever used, I think that it's important to look at things from the perspective of a townie. Without perfect knowledge about the traits, the connection between the clue and the trait must be strong.

[Hawkeyeop]

Well, I'm annoyed at how this went down -- especially considering that NAF said "90 minutes extension at least", and then cut things off at 60 minutes -- but it's not like the Town deserved to win this one anyway.

ETA: Apparently he said 60. :smack:

I could sworn he said 90 too. Was that edited?

[Pleonast]

OK, last post on this game from me... but I have a question for Pleo.

Assuming faith didn't get modkilled, who would you have killed in the final night? I made the argument in the spoiler thread that if in fact faith came to life, if I were you I'd kill her, based on her being "confirmed" town, and the possibility that the two remaining townies might vote for each other (I forgot the details, but either hawk said he was suspicious of rysto, or vice-versa). I hadn't considered dossiers, and where that might have led. What was your strategy, if you had one, for the final day?You can read the scum board to see what I was thinking. In summary: I was intending to kill Hawkeye. I thought my best chances were to play Rysto and faithfool off each other. Set myself up as the Townie who needs to decide between the other two.

[Rysto]

You don't think that would have been a mistake? faith seemed ready to vote for you on the last Day and I would have known that you were the last scum because faith would have been confirmed Town by her dossier.

[Pleonast]

Maybe. I guess I had the impression that I could convince faith to vote for you. These end-game choices are hard for everyone to make.

[Rysto]

It just seems to me that you wouldn't even have had to convince Hawk and I to vote for each other.