Laptops are stupid and shitty. Why would anyone buy one? [Archive]

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 06:46 PM

This is the lamest pitting I'll ever write, but I have to get it off my chest.

Laptops are stupid. Even the best ones have crap performance due to all the little weird design and architecture compromises that they have to make, and they're physically inconvenient to work on. They're significantly more expensive than desktops and don't work nearly as well. I've never seen one with a battery life worth a damn, and most of them operate in any number of performance-killing economy modes in order to squeeze more precious time out of their already anemic battery lives, so most of the time you're stuck plugging the damned thing in anyway. They're hard to upgrade. They get too hot and can't cool themselves properly, often resorting to baking-hot temperatures and jet engine-loud fans working overtime in an attempt to keep everything from bursting into flames. You can't actually recline and use one in your lap for an extended period of time or you'll block the vents. You look like a self-important douchebag for using one in public, especially in places like coffeeshops or restaurants, but especially on public transportation. Most of them are so fucking huge now that they won't fit anywhere or on anything anyway.

Laptops are pieces of shit!

Beware of Doug

12-19-2007, 06:49 PM

I enjoy my laptop. It suits my lifestyle.
But then, I am a stupid, shitty person, so it would, wouldn't it.

mhendo

12-19-2007, 06:50 PM

This is the lamest pitting I'll ever write...Based on your previous form, i doubt it.

But it is pretty lame.

Giraffe

12-19-2007, 06:53 PM

SisterCoyote

12-19-2007, 06:55 PM

: Pats VCO3 on his soft head. :

There, there, dear.

gotpasswords

12-19-2007, 06:56 PM

Huh.

My one and only work PC is a laptop. Runs cool as a cucumber, and quiet, even when cranking away at full power.

Perhaps if the OP got a good laptop, his problems would go away?

Garfield226

12-19-2007, 06:59 PM

Huh.

My one and only work PC is a laptop. Runs cool as a cucumber, and quiet, even when cranking away at full power.

Perhaps if the OP got a good laptop, his problems would go away?
But he would still look like a self-important douchebag for using it in public.

Well... MORE.

Boozahol Squid, P.I.

12-19-2007, 07:00 PM

To respond to the OP:

My laptop (an IBM/Lenovo R series) doesn't have a heinously loud fan, doesn't overheat on my lap (vents on the side), and the economy mode just dims the screen a little. While the battery life is only about 45 minutes, the benefits of being able to haul it around to coffee shops, work, home, and to check out the dope while I'm in bed far outweigh any difficulties upgrading the thing, anyways.
Who upgrades computers, anymore? By the time a computer isn't up to standard, it's almost always easier to just buy a new box with gizmos included.

Laptops rock. Punk.

Musicat

12-19-2007, 07:03 PM

Unh, portability? Ya tink?

gazpacho

12-19-2007, 07:12 PM

Lap tops have outsold desktops for the past few years. So a lot of people seem to disagree.

This is just bitching and moaning by VCO3 because he is to poor to get a laptop.

Squink

12-19-2007, 07:16 PM

If I had a laptop, I would take it on long airplane flights, and use it to model simple electronic circuits.

Jayn_Newell

12-19-2007, 07:18 PM

It's just one of those things where you have to pick which better suits your needs. If you need performance, get a desktop. If you need portability, get a laptop. If you need both, you'd better be prepared to drop a few grand on a machine, or get one of each.

I had a laptop in college for a couple years. The portability was nice, but I decided performance was more important to me and have a desktop now.

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 07:19 PM

OK, VCO3. Given your history of starting Pit threads and then never returning (latest example (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447031)), we're going to have a special rule for you. No more dropping Pit threads like steaming turds and then never returning. If you don't want to discuss a subject, don't start the thread. If you start a thread and never come back (or make only fake, token responses to get past this new rule on a technicality), you're going to start racking up warnings.

Note to all: this rule applies only to VCO3 and his adherence to it will be judged by the mods (rather than some arbitrary minimum quota of posts per thread).

I find this incredibly offensive - since when is the Pit a forum like "Great Debates?" Since when do I have to defend pittings, and meet some sort of quota of posts to make one? I feel unfairly singled out. I'll take it up with you in PM's.

Garfield226

12-19-2007, 07:20 PM

I find this incredibly offensive - since when is the Pit a forum like "Great Debates?" Since when do I have to defend pittings, and meet some sort of quota of posts to make one? I feel unfairly singled out. I'll take it up with you in PM's.
I can't speak for the mods, but my guess would be since you started using the SDMB like a Livejournal.

Giraffe

12-19-2007, 07:21 PM

I find this incredibly offensive - since when is the Pit a forum like "Great Debates?" Since when do I have to defend pittings, and meet some sort of quota of posts to make one? I feel unfairly singled out. I'll take it up with you in PM's.It's not Great Debates, but neither is it your personal rant blog. If you don't want to interact with people, don't post on a message board.

askeptic

12-19-2007, 07:24 PM

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 07:25 PM

It's not Great Debates, but neither is it your personal rant blog. If you don't want to interact with people, don't post on a message board.

I took this up with you in PM's, but I just wanted to respond that using the pit IS interacting, by virtue of soliciting responses.

Garfield226

12-19-2007, 07:28 PM

I took this up with you in PM's, but I just wanted to respond that using the pit IS interacting, by virtue of soliciting responses.
There's a word for posting something solely to "solicit responses" instead of have a conversation ...

DudleyGarrett

12-19-2007, 07:28 PM

I can't get as worked up as the OP'er, but I agree with his general premise. Everything he says is true; short battery life, loud fans, hot temperatures plague even the most expensive brands and models. I also find laptop keyboards to be less-than-optimal. I don't like using trackpads either. All that being said, I'm glad they're readily available in all shapes and sizes. I have several desktops between work and home, but sometimes the MacBook Pro is very convenient and I can work (or post messages like this one) in the comfort of my living room. I don't think however that I could have JUST a laptop, due to the aforementioned limitations.

If I had to make a choice, I'd go with a desktop.

(even this $3000 MacBook Pro has loud fans and runs very hot if it sits directly on your lap)

Idlewild

12-19-2007, 07:30 PM

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 07:31 PM

Lap tops have outsold desktops for the past few years. So a lot of people seem to disagree.

This is just bitching and moaning by VCO3 because he is to poor to get a laptop.

I think that's what's driving me nuts - it's that people seem to default to thinking of "computer" as "laptop." A desktop is better in almost all respects unless you absolutely need to do whatever you're doing "in the field."

Here's a horrible laptop story; my band recently went into the studio to record a one-off track for a compilation, and the label doing the comp is local and was footing the bill and everything. So we get there and get set up, and the engineer guy is getting ready to record everything...on a Mac laptop! I halted the session right there and essentially said, "Uhh...why are you recording us on a laptop? We'd prefer to do 2" tape, as that's what we record on on our own, but if we absolutely must record digitally, don't you guys have a ProTools HD system?" Nope - this guy brought a pen knife to a gunfight with his low-end mac laptop. I was personally insulted and gloated as the macbook was quickly unable to keep up, grinding to a halt under increasing track counts. It eventually got so hot that it locked up and shut down, and we ended up having to cancel the whole session.

Why on EARTH would someone have chosen a laptop in that situation? It MIGHT have been an acceptable solution for live recording in the field, but in a "professional" studio it was an embarrassment and a failure - all because some guy thought "laptop laptop" rather than "real computer."

That's the story of every laptop everywhere, it seems to me. I mean, look at the "one laptop per child" initiative!

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 07:32 PM

I am posting from the couch. As usual. I love my laptop. I have no desire to be chained to a flat surface when computing at home. Until such time as I can jack in to the ubiquitous network by means of a plug in the back of my head, a laptop fills the gap nicely.

Plus, I can play solitaire when I get bored of feeding the trolls.

Would you post the make and model of your laptop? I'm really curious to see what laptop you can actually use in your lap without it burning your crotch and overheating.

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-19-2007, 07:34 PM

DudleyGarrett

12-19-2007, 07:38 PM

Garfield226

12-19-2007, 07:40 PM

I mean, I guess I don't have a problem with laptops if you absolutely must have a computer "on location" somewhere, but I really hate that they seem to be replacing desktops in people's minds because people think of a home computer as a glorified blackberry that they can use to send e-mail and read about Britney impregnating her own sister with her hydraulic metal penis.
What do you think a computer is for?

Seriously. In most situations, people don't NEED a high-end, top-of-the-line, screaming graphics, BOSE-sounding, lightning-fast, gigantic capacity desktop tower sitting next to them. They want it to get online, primarily, maybe play some solitaire or muck around with word processing. That's about it.

Gamers get gaming rigs. Home media nuts get high-capacity, high-memory, TV-input carded media centers. Graphics folks get high-RAM, top-quality monitor, graphics-tablet having Macs, usually.

Most regular people get what they need. Something to get online with. And the convenience of being able to take it to the coffee shop or move to the couch or whatever outweighs the inability to have a GeForce nine billion or 17 GB of RAM or whatever. Why do you think you know what people need better than they do?

myskepticsight

12-19-2007, 07:48 PM

If I had money, I'd have both a desktop and a laptop. I have only a laptop because it was a graduation present and my college program at the time required Mac laptops. I do love it, but would also love a nice, fast dektop with a huge screen and all that. But I also love laying in bed surfing the dope like I'm doing now. Laptops have their place, as do desktops. One day I will have both, the desktop holding all my music and photo files and all that, and the laptop for surfing wherever I want. But I don't see the hate on laptops really. They're good for certain things.

LurkMeister

12-19-2007, 07:50 PM

My primary computer for the last year has been a laptop. (A Gateway, I don't remember the model, but I bought it about a year and a half ago.) The battery is good for about three hours when fully charged, and it vents to the side (although I seldom actually have it in my lap, so I can't vouch for certain as to it's non-crotch-burning ability). I seldom use the trackpad, since I have a USB mouse that works very well, but I haven't any trouble adjusting to the trackpad when I have to.

NinjaChick

12-19-2007, 07:52 PM

Jesus. If you don't like laptops, don't fucking buy one and you won't have a problem with them. Q.E.D.

TroubleAgain

12-19-2007, 08:04 PM

Would you post the make and model of your laptop? I'm really curious to see what laptop you can actually use in your lap without it burning your crotch and overheating.

Well, yeah, mine gets hot. That's why I use a lapdesk. Big Whoop. I cozily lie on the sofa, with the laptop on the lapdesk (which has a nice, soft beanbag bottom), surfing and watching tv. I take my laptop with me on vacations both long and short, take it to work so I can pay bills or play games during my lunchbreak, take it to my mom's to show her my latest photos, take it on photography gigs to upload photos while I work* and burn dvd's for the client on the spot....I couldn't do any of that with a desktop.

::hugs my HP Pavilion laptop:: And it even has pretty blue lights all over the place!

*I'm not a professional--I shoot weddings and parties for friends and family sometimes.

Idlewild

12-19-2007, 08:04 PM

Just a little old MacBook 2GHz Intel Core Duo. It gets warm, but not enough to bother me, even in summer. It's got a sweet little form factor and does everything I need. Note, everything I need DOES NOT include heavy image processing (although I do run Photoshop CS2 on it when I need to) or music/video processing. I use it to surf, email, irc, write, edit photos, listen to music, and watch DVDs. I imagine if I were to try to watch a DVD and do a lot of image manipulation in Photoshop at the same time it might start getting a bit on the toasty side.

It all comes down to what you need! If I were to be completely honest with myself, I don't need anything more powerful than the Amstrad PCW (heh... god that was a piece of crap) my family had in '87. It had perfectly adequate word-processing capabilities, and was better for writing than a pen and paper. Beyond that, everything else is gravy, for my personal needs.

Ravenman

12-19-2007, 08:33 PM

Not every bridge has a DSL connection underneath it to plug into a desktop. VCO3 seems to be fortunate in that regard.

Shagnasty

12-19-2007, 08:35 PM

I hate to agree with the OP but I do (in only a small way). I am an extreme power user who works in IT for a Mega-Corp. For some reason, the company decided last year that every important employee literally needs to be able to continue productive work in the event of a terrorist attack, a hurricane, or WWIII (we actually had an online class about this). The result was that everyone similar to me was issued a laptop, our former desktop computer was removed, and we have to have our laptops with us at all times except for official vacations.

Now, I have never had much respect for people that carried laptops. To me, they are just electronic etch-a-sketches and I made my opinion loud and clear. I literally cannot do my job on a 15 inch screen even though the performance of my laptop overall is great. My director found a solution with a docking station. I just walk into work, set the laptop in the docking station, and I have a full keyboard, mouse, and large LCD monitor fired up with 15 seconds. The bonus is that I also have the laptop screen that functions as a secondary monitor. It is great.

I told them I need the same docking station and setup at home which I should get shortly. That makes a laptop worthwhile to me. I can use it as a full desktop at work and at home with ease as well as a crappy regular laptop anywhere else. That is an ideal solution for me.

Beware of Doug

12-19-2007, 08:46 PM

Now, I have never had much respect for people that carried laptops. To me, they are just electronic etch-a-sketches and I made my opinion loud and clear. I literally cannot do my job on a 15 inch screen even though the performance of my laptop overall is great.So you don't dig laptops. Hey, that's your right. But what's your problem with their owners? How do they hack you off?

I don't carry a laptop all that often. But if any random bug-up-ass individual ever came up to me on the train to New York and acted all pissy about my using a laptop when all around were idiots braying into cel phones, I would happily yank that person's brains out through their nostrils and grind them under my heel, you mark my words.

susan

12-19-2007, 08:57 PM

There's something about a nice, toasty laptop that makes me want to knit on an airplane. In fact, I'm making a laptop cozy. Blue, to match my eyes. Like the laptop salesman said, "Lookee here, little lady. It's all shiny and purty!"

Circular needles, baby!

Beware of Doug

12-19-2007, 08:59 PM

Sleeps With Butterflies

12-19-2007, 09:00 PM

gazpacho

12-19-2007, 09:04 PM

Tell the truth, you don't like laptops because most of them are black.And loud.

E-Sabbath

12-19-2007, 09:13 PM

Woah. Havn't seen one of these since... Let's see. Handy and No Medical Advice, what's his name and No Bondage... What other special rules have there been?

Garfield226

12-19-2007, 09:18 PM

Woah. Havn't seen one of these since... Let's see. Handy and No Medical Advice, what's his name and No Bondage... What other special rules have there been?
Reeder and one pit thread about Bush at a time.

SkipMagic

12-19-2007, 09:19 PM

And loud.
And don't like to go camping.

Miller

12-19-2007, 09:28 PM

And don't like to go camping.

Or coffee. They REALLY don't like coffee.

Superfluous Parentheses

12-19-2007, 09:32 PM

You look like a self-important douchebag for using one in public, especially in places like coffeeshops or restaurants, but especially on public transportation.
I bought a laptop to save me 2 hours of unproductive time on the train each day and also because most places I go to have desktops that suck way more than my laptop and would take forever to setup right. I also have a seriously expensive brompton bike for similar reasons and I bought both with my own money since I'm self-employed. I'm not here to impress anyone, I just have better things to do than care about what anyone thinks about my stuff when I can use it to use my time more productively.

Ps: I do try to keep my stuff out of the way when it's crowded.

Shagnasty

12-19-2007, 09:36 PM

So you don't dig laptops. Hey, that's your right. But what's your problem with their owners? How do they hack you off?

I don't carry a laptop all that often. But if any random bug-up-ass individual ever came up to me on the train to New York and acted all pissy about my using a laptop when all around were idiots braying into cel phones, I would happily yank that person's brains out through their nostrils and grind them under my heel, you mark my words.

It seems you have some anger management issues with delusions of fictitious assaults. I never said anything about confronting laptop users on trains. In fact, my days of public transportation are thankfully well behind me.

I don't hate people that use laptops as true laptops. Their version of computing just isn't the same as mine and my livelihood requires big screens, a big keyboard, and everything else. My perception of laptops got hurt in a big way during my first professional job in the late 1990's. Back then, professional quality laptops could cost $5000 or more and had tiny screens and crappy everything. The company hired the consulting firm Ernst and Young to do auditing and analysis. I met with them day after day watching them painfully point and click little text entries into Excel. It wouldn't be so bad if the people in question were simple temps but these people billed at $150 - $250 an hour a piece and they employed a novelty as a major tool of the trade.

Laptops have gotten better but the etch-a-sketch problem still remains. Lots of people adopted Palm Pilots at one time and those were even more useless. Some people just use their computing devices as quasi-helpful toys and others of us have legitimate work to do. A laptop works fine for movie viewing and composing e-mail on the go but the design is quite the compromise that fails to meet most users needs ideally.

Bobotheoptimist

12-19-2007, 09:40 PM

If you actually wanted an answer I assume you'd have started this in IMHO or something, but since you didn't you obviously don't so -
Desktops are stupid and shitty, they're barely more powerful than a laptop and nearly as convenient and portable as a server. Worst of both worlds.

Sticks and Scones

12-19-2007, 09:46 PM

Self-employed laptop owner here. Sony Vaio F series. I've had it for two years and it goes nearly everywhere with me. I honestly don't know what I'd do without it. I have power cords at home, work, and my boyfriend's house. Anywhere else, there's enough battery to get me through. Yes, it does get a little bit toasty in the summer, however, I can fix that with a nifty little usb powered cooling fan.

LAPTOPS RULE!!!

Rick

12-19-2007, 09:48 PM

Would you post the make and model of your laptop? I'm really curious to see what laptop you can actually use in your lap without it burning your crotch and overheating.
Dell Vostro 1500. Very comfortable to set on my lap. Warm, but not hot.

scr4

12-19-2007, 10:05 PM

I use my Thinkpad X61 Tablet for pretty much everything, including all my work. Partly because it's more powerful than the desktop PC my employer has assigned to me, but mostly because it's nice to have all my data and software wherever I go. My work involves not just Microsoft Office stuff but also extensive use of optical design software and math/engineering software, and the performance is perfectly satisfactory.

This laptop is about 12x12", small enough to fit on most tables. It's cool enough to use on my lap; I do it most evenings while sitting in the living room. Battery life is about 4 hours in actual use (claimed battery life is 9 hours, but I run the screen brightness pretty high). Which means I can leave the AC adapter at work on weekdays, though I do have a second one on order. The screen is small (12") but it has good resolution (SXGA+ = 1400x1050) so it doesn't feel cramped at all.

CaveMike

12-19-2007, 10:07 PM

Would you post the make and model of your laptop? I'm really curious to see what laptop you can actually use in your lap without it burning your crotch and overheating.Lenovo's T40 series fits the bill. They're quiet and cool. The extended battery lasts a really long time (4-8 hours) depending on what you're doing. These are perfect for 'email machines'.

Sleeps With Butterflies

12-19-2007, 10:58 PM

Would you post the make and model of your laptop? I'm really curious to see what laptop you can actually use in your lap without it burning your crotch and overheating.

You may consider simply wearing pants while you're online sometimes.

MsWhatsit

12-19-2007, 11:01 PM

My Dell Inspiron stays in the comfortably warm zone, and it's usually parked on my lap while in use. Unless I'm out and about somewhere, and then it's usually on the table in front of me.

What a bizarre topic to get exercised about.

Mr. Excellent

12-19-2007, 11:21 PM

I'm a student, and I'd hate to try and get by without my laptop. It's incredibly convenient to be able to have all my work, and programs, and web access in front of me in each and every class. When I go to the library to work, I don't need to try and snag one of the free computers - I can sit in one of the nice, comfortable armchairs, perch my laptop on one of the arms, and get to work.

mhendo

12-19-2007, 11:46 PM

Some people just use their computing devices as quasi-helpful toys and others of us have legitimate work to do.This is just stupid and parochial.

Plenty of people do "legitimate work" on their laptops, and the laptops cope just fine with the workload. Every academic, scholar, researcher, or scientist who needs to do work outside their regular office can benefit from the use of a laptop. If your work takes you to libraries, archives, laboratories, job sites, or any one of dozens of other places, laptop computers allow you to take your work with you, and to have all your vital information handy.

The fact that most people who use laptops don't need huge amounts of computer power doesn't mean that the work they do on their computers is not "legitimate work." I fully agree that, for a high-end tech person who needs wads of computing power and acres of screen space, a laptop would not be ideal, but for most people it functions perfectly well as a useful work tool.

If it makes you feel better to masturbate about the amount of computing power you need, and to suggest that everyone else is just playing with "quasi-helpful toys," knock yourself out. But it makes you look like a tool. And not the useful kind, either. A laptop works fine for movie viewing and composing e-mail on the go but the design is quite the compromise that fails to meet most users needs ideally.The fact that more people buy laptops than desktops seems to cast doubt on your assessment.

I'm also surprised that, for a guy who not only claims to be in IT, but also claims to have some background in academia, you are so ignorant about the amount of work situations in which a laptop can be of use.

Almost every academic i know has a laptop, and they are invaluable tools for preventing the duplication of work. If you are doing research in a library or archive, and are taking notes by hand, you then have to spend almost the same amount of time again typing your notes into your computer later on. Type them straight into your laptop, and they remain there, easily searchable and accessible.

And this basic note-taking function doesn't even touch on the variety of programs that make life easier for people with laptops. Beyond basic Office-type programs, software like bibliographic tools, statistics programs, graphing software, mapping software, smaller database applications, etc., etc., all work perfectly well on relatively low-powered computers and provide an incredible amount of assistance in many fields and many professions, both in academia and in the world of business, non-profit organizations, government, etc., etc.

The fact that these people don't do the sort of work that you do, and don't require the same amount of computing power, doesn't mean that they're not doing work, or are just viewing movies and checking email.

cochrane

12-20-2007, 12:30 AM

I bought my HP laptop in 2003 and love it. The hard drive recently crapped out and I had it replaced and the techs were able to transfer all my old files to the new one. So I'll probably go a few more years on it before I buy a new one. It's a 1.9GHz P4 with 512 Mb of RAM (probably state of the art 4 years ago) and runs anything from Dreamweaver and Front Page to Firefox with about 60 tabs open. I can run about 9 or 10 programs without locking up, I rip MP3's and convert DVD's to run on a PSP. I use it in lieu of a desktop, with a standard keyboard plugged into the USB. I bought some small USB powered speakers which sound as good as most desktop speakers. It has a 15" monitor which is large enough for me to see about 48" in front of me. I don't play games on it, other than simple Flash games. I'd rather use a console for games. IMO, a laptop can substitute for a desktop for most average needs.

9thFloor

12-20-2007, 12:47 AM

Helen's Eidolon

12-20-2007, 01:09 AM

I'm sort of entertained that those of us who work in coffee shops suck.

My Dell Inspiron never/rarely gets warm - I almost wish it would, as I'm always cold.

Voyager

12-20-2007, 02:00 AM

I travel a bit, and go to lots of meetings well away from work. How is a desktop going to let me review my presentation in a hotel? How is it going to go to a meeting room and get plugged into a projector to show a presentation? I mostly use it at home, but it is essential for traveling. (At work I have a Solaris thin client with a nice big screen.)

I once had to bring a desktop, actually an old Sun workstation, across the country to a meeting. (This was years ago, when laptops were new, and before EDA tools were on Windows.) We had to put it in a special case, convince airport security that turning it on was not going to do anything but illuminate an led, and borrow a monitor at the place we were going to do a demo. Plus, almost get a hernia from putting that thing into the overhead bin. No thanks, laptops any day for me.

China Guy

12-20-2007, 02:19 AM

I got a brand spanking new Lenovo X61 tablet running vista/Office2007. It's good for about 4 hours of battery life in high performance mode. It doesn't run hot, is pretty light, and works pretty damn well for the 50%+ part of the time I'm not at my work desk but still have to get all my work done (for which a PC is indespensible). And I use a windows PDA phone extensively as well. When I am in the office, it's often 10 hours a day on the laptop. I do a lot of spreadsheets and am cursed by a corporate culture that believes powerpoints can turn shit to gold.

I've been a laptop only kinda user for at least 8 years. I don't have an external screen, mouse or keyboard. Since the X61 came with an ultra lightweight docking station, I actually use that whenever I'm at work but it's far from indespensible.

I like the biometric reader that allows me to log on with a thumb swipe. I use tablet mode extensively with customers or to mark up powerpoints.

So, OP channelling the ghost of handy, care to share on tablets too?

cherry

12-20-2007, 03:01 AM

Self employed laptop owner here who spends a lot of time in hotels. Laptops are kind of necessary for the job and location. In fact some of the "expensive models" (Sony TZ90, Panasonic toughbook Y4) you are complaining have a long battery life 6 hours or more, are quiet, not hot. I use them all the time on cross country flights. I am buying another one tomorrow to upgrade the Y4, not to irk you but because some of us need a laptop, not a blackberry, not an apple iphone but an actual computer to run programs necessary for work in remote locations. I'm sorry but this is a lame rant.

Mangetout

12-20-2007, 03:13 AM

Mangetout

12-20-2007, 03:21 AM

I find this incredibly offensive - since when is the Pit a forum like "Great Debates?" Since when do I have to defend pittings, and meet some sort of quota of posts to make one? I feel unfairly singled out. I'll take it up with you in PM's.
Hey, if you've got a beef with TPTB, why not take it to the...

Oh

Never mind.

Hippy Hollow

12-20-2007, 04:16 AM

OK, VCO3. Given your history of starting Pit threads and then never returning (latest example (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447031)), we're going to have a special rule for you. No more dropping Pit threads like steaming turds and then never returning. If you don't want to discuss a subject, don't start the thread. If you start a thread and never come back (or make only fake, token responses to get past this new rule on a technicality), you're going to start racking up warnings.

Note to all: this rule applies only to VCO3 and his adherence to it will be judged by the mods (rather than some arbitrary minimum quota of posts per thread).
You know, the mods get a lot of shit on this board... but this response is awesome!

I have a PowerMac G4 desktop that I never use, but a work MacBook Pro 15" and home MacBook Pro 17". Both are docked and used with external monitors and keyboards. So I have the best of both worlds. The MBP 15" that my uni provided for me has a BookEndz Dock... people in my department come by all the time and drool.

My employer offered me the option of a lapper or a desktop. It was a no-brainer when I saw that they made a dock for the MBP.

Pushkin

12-20-2007, 04:23 AM

My director found a solution with a docking station. I just walk into work, set the laptop in the docking station, and I have a full keyboard, mouse, and large LCD monitor fired up with 15 seconds. The bonus is that I also have the laptop screen that functions as a secondary monitor. It is great

They do seem pretty handy, for home use all I found I needed though was a USB mouse to make it painless to use.

I had an older PC and got some money that absolutely had to be used on a newer PC, so I picked up a laptop. For no other reason than that I seem to be moving into smaller places with more crap and needed the space.

zweisamkeit

12-20-2007, 05:30 AM

The reason for poor battery performance on laptops is often because they're charged too much. If you use a laptop in the office as well as out and about, it's better to run it on batteries for a while (say, in the morning), then charge it fully before you take it away. If you're planning to use the thing as a desktop PC for an extended time, physically take the battery out.

This isn't so much the case with the newer Lithium Ion batteries, but still, laptop batteries are designed to be used - that is, charged and then discharged (a bit at least).

Just wanted to say "the newer"? Yes, I know that NiCad batteries were the only choice for awhile, but when I got my current laptop (4 years ago), I couldn't find a single NiCad-powered laptop*, unless I wanted to go to a huge trade center and find a vendor selling a laptop from 1997 barely able to run Win95's screensaver.

I really really doubt that the total number of NiCad laptops in use are more than a very small percentage of total laptops.

I love my laptop; I was a CompSci student doing a lot of programming and my laptop handled that just fine. Now I mainly use it for general surfing, typing etc. (my job is currently a 'leave your work here when you walk out the building', where I have a desktop and dual monitor set up) and it suits me just fine. I have a 4 year old Systemax and it only runs warm, not hot.

* Not that I wanted one.

Crotalus

12-20-2007, 06:25 AM

I wonder if the OP ever stops to consider that he might be clueless about the wants and needs of the majority of people. Laptops apparently are doing something useful for millions of people.

My company provides me with a Dell Latitude. I use it in the office in a docking station with a full-size keyboard, a mouse and a nice flat screen monitor. I work from home a couple of days a week and use the on-board keyboard and screen with a USB mouse. In the office, I can take my computer to conference rooms and show presentations from my hard drive. When I travel, I can work in airports or on planes in full self-important douchebag mode. Battery life has never been an issue, since I generally don't work more than an hour or so in those situations. Heat has never been an issue. In the bad old days, when I used a desk-top computer for work, I could work at home using my home desk-top. I had to keep my personal software in sync with work software, and when I traveled to my company's other locations I had to use whatever desk-top computer they had lying around.

My wife has one of the huge ones that the OP mentioned, a Dell Inspiron, I think. It enables her to work on her real estate business anywhere in our home as well as in the real estate office.

These two laptops do everything we need computers to do, and they do it well and portably. I think we'll keep them.

Sarahfeena

12-20-2007, 06:43 AM

You may consider simply wearing pants while you're online sometimes. When he finally finds some hot MILF porn, he wants to be ready!

Jurph

12-20-2007, 07:12 AM

I've got a full size foldout keyboard that collapses into a wallet-sized package for when I want to type a great deal.

Laptops suck.

Whoa, buddy. Define "full size". I have a 101-key keyboard here in front of me--none of this "hold down FN to get a half-assed Num Pad" crap--and it's got to be 18 inches wide and at least six deep. If it's smaller than that, it ain't full size.

I am a fan of laptops for long airplane flights - I can write my trip reports and place them in my outbox for automatic sending next time I'm connected. Once I finish my work I can play NetHack or Dwarf Fortress, watch a DVD if I don't like the in-flight movie (and who ever does?). But the keyboard is teeny tiny, and I love getting it back to the office where I can dock it to take advantage of a second screen and a real full-size keyboard.

As for VCO3's assertion that they're loud or hot, I find that my Dell Latitude D430 is a great computer. It's quiet, only gets noticeably hot after two or three hours, and runs for four or five hours on a charge (less if I'm using the WiFi antenna). It costs about $1,500 which is nearly twice what a bare-bones machine would cost me. A $1,500 gaming rig would be a nicer machine for my home, and a $1,500 quad-core (or eight core) machine dedicated to heavy RAM and CPU loads would be useful for running simulations at work. I could use any of them as my desktop machine at work... but I couldn't take any of them on the plane with me.

Look at it this way, VCO3: a laptop is a piece of specialty computing hardware. People are stupid (surely you've figured that out by now!) and routinely use the wrong tool for the job. Obviously, a man who tries to use a broadsword as a screwdriver is a fool, but that does not make the broadsword a bad weapon. It makes it a bad screwdriver.

kidchameleon

12-20-2007, 08:06 AM

This thread is as lame as the poster who started it. I have a Dell Latitude D620 with extended battery. It lasts 4 or 5 hours on a charge and rarely ever gets hot. With a cellular card I can get a lot of work done, keep up with things or catch a movie while shuttling around the country. When I'm at one of our other facilities, I don't need to take a computer from someone who's using it, I can use my lap top.

Justin_Bailey

12-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Wow. I agree with VCO3 and DudleyGarrett. It's too early in the morning for that kind of head trip.

Anyway, yes I think laptops are pretty dumb. Small, cramped keyboards. Those lame trackpads. No scroll wheel. Much too short battery life. Crotch burning bottoms. No thank you.

And while I realize that every jackass at the coffee shop is like this, but most people that I've seen with laptops aren't actually using them. They have them on and the screen is displaying something colorful and important looking, but the laptop owner is staring into space while drinking his coffee. It's a very quick and easy way to spot the hipster ass holes.

That said, the way my wife can carry her laptop anywhere in the house and get a wireless signal for the Internet is neat. But then, she has tiny girl hands that can actually type comfortably on the keyboard.

Zulema

12-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Dell Vostro 1000, warm but not hot. Dell seems to have the hot thing under control. My old Dell got so hot the paint on the bottom would melt and stick to my leg.

Man With a Cat

12-20-2007, 08:17 AM

Toshiba Tecra. It gets warm, but not uncomfortably so.

I work at my desk, at any one of 19 schools, at off site meetings, at home....wherever I am and need to work, it's there with me. The extended life battery is good for over 4 hours, but I keep a spare charger in my bag anyway.

I'm almost not comfortable on a normal sized keyboard anymore, so none of the miniaturization issues bug me at all.

Desktops suck. Try and work on one on the train!

Caffeine.addict

12-20-2007, 08:31 AM

I like my laptop for home use when I want to surf the internet or do a few things at home like research. However, I prefer my desktop if I have to do a good amount of typing. The good thing about the laptop is that I can sit on the couch or the dining room and not be near an ethernet port. It works best if used as a supplement to the desktop not as a substitute.

My desktop at work died last year and I was stuck using the office laptop for three days while our computer guy got around to replacing the hard drive and reinstalling all of the software that I use. Let me tell you, that did suck. I finally connected my monitor and keyboard to the thing and used it that way.

For what I do, I just don't need that much computing power. If I can run MS Office, Acrobat, and a few more specialized programs that don't use to much power, I'm fine.

Jayn_Newell

12-20-2007, 08:33 AM

Anyway, yes I think laptops are pretty dumb. Small, cramped keyboards. Those lame trackpads. No scroll wheel. Much too short battery life. Crotch burning bottoms. No thank you.

Buy mouse.
Set up laptop.
Plug in mouse.
Do work.
Unplug mouse.
Put laptop and mouse away.

I'm not going to say that laptops are inherently bad, but I'm sure a lot of people have them when they would be as well or better served with a desktop.

THespos

12-20-2007, 08:34 AM

Odds on whether our favorite seagull poster will return to the thread?

I've had this HP Pavilion dv8000 for a couple years. Before that, it was a series of Toshiba notebooks that are all still going today. (I gave one to my mom, one to my wife.) I commute two hours each way, with most of that time spent on a Long Island Rail Road train, so it doesn't make sense for me to have a desktop. When I get to the office, I plug it in and keep going.

Most people working here have notebooks. We've been ordering a bunch of the Lenovos lately, since we can get pretty good deals on them via GotApex. And they hold up pretty well. Some people plug them in to docking stations when they get to the office, while some people just use the keyboard and display on the notebook.

I doubt we'll be buying too many desktops anymore. It's so much more convenient and efficient to let people leave earlier and take some work with them on their commute. It's also convenient when someone decides they want to work from home or they get a cold and don't want to come in to the office.

We're not exactly doing supercomputing here (we're an ad agency), so really we need only Microsoft Office and a web browser to do what we do. Sprinkle in a few other low-powered apps like eFax, AIM, an FTP client for remote file access. That's about it. Yeah, sometimes people throw iTunes or Photoshop on their machines. But it's not like we're running anything crazy, so we can usually get away with machines that don't represent the latest and greatest in terms of processor speed or RAM.

I'm going to do my thing on this HP until it blows up, at which time I'll probably scoot down to my Apple reseller (right here on my block) and scoop up a Macbook Pro. Yeah, it will likely be a lot more than I need, but maybe I'll grow into it.

I'm also acutely aware of looking like a pretentious dick from time to time as I type away in Starbucks. When Starbucks first got WiFi, my partner and I signed up for accounts, because we do a good deal of running around, and it's cool to be able to duck into a coffee shop if you have 30 minutes to kill before a client meeting and you want to see what's going on back at the office or get some work done. Just remember that not everybody typing on a notebook in Starbucks is an attention whore or loser. I usually don't even drink their shitty coffee, but I'll happily take them up on their offer to let me choose from a few thousand WiFi lounges where I can get work done when I'm on the road.

Justin_Bailey

12-20-2007, 08:41 AM

Buy mouse.
Set up laptop.
Plug in mouse.
Do work.
Unplug mouse.
Put laptop and mouse away.

I'm not going to say that laptops are inherently bad, but I'm sure a lot of people have them when they would be as well or better served with a desktop.

You forgot "keep laptop plugged in at all times because the battery runs down too quickly" and "buy keyboard" and "buy desk for laptop because I can't use a mouse on the side of my leg while also balancing a real keyboard on my lap"

I think I'll stick with my desktop thank you very much.

Oh, and I'm sure the surge in laptop spending is due to a rash of college kids who have decided that's what they want as a graduation gift. And I will grant that in a dorm setting, a laptop is much better than a desktop.

Jayn_Newell

12-20-2007, 08:49 AM

You forgot "keep laptop plugged in at all times because the battery runs down too quickly" and "buy keyboard" and "buy desk for laptop because I can't use a mouse on the side of my leg while also balancing a real keyboard on my lap"
Yes, if you must, and if you didn't insist on a 'real' keyboard you wouldn't have that problem ;)

I'm still glad I swapped machines with my father though (he bought me a new desktop, I gave my old laptop to replace his even older one).

Justin_Bailey

12-20-2007, 09:15 AM

Yes, if you must, and if you didn't insist on a 'real' keyboard you wouldn't have that problem ;)

My giant manly hands prevent me from using a tiny laptop keyboard easily.

It's the same reason I need a third-party controller for my PS2. Sony may tout their system as the "mature gamer's choice" but that controller is built for a child.

Flander

12-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Good news, everyone!! (http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/19/169259&from=rss)

Crotalus

12-20-2007, 09:26 AM

My giant manly hands prevent me from using a tiny laptop keyboard easily.

It's the same reason I need a third-party controller for my PS2. Sony may tout their system as the "mature gamer's choice" but that controller is built for a child.
I'm confused about the keyboard thing. The letters and numbers area of my laptop keyboard is exactly the same size as that area of my full size keyboard. The F keys at the top are slightly smaller, but everything bounded by ` ~, Backspace, Ctrl and Ctrl is the same size and spacing on both boards.

Contrary

12-20-2007, 09:45 AM

I must completely suck then, I own three laptops.

To be fair, I gave my oldest laptop to my husband so I am down to just two.

Last month, I got a gaming laptop (http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?seg=HHO&poid=383433) which replaced my gaming desktop. I made the move to a gaming laptop because we are leaving the midwest (and the large house we have) and moving to Boston where we know we will be lucky to have 1/3 the space we have here. While it's a big beast for a laptop, it still takes up a lot less room than the desktop.

I also have an HP Pavilion dv2000 which is a year old. Since I'm self-employed this laptop is perfect for me--it runs all the programs I need and is still lightweight enough I don't break my back hauling it around.

I personally find regular keyboards annoying, and I much prefer the laptop keyboard both for size and the way the keys feel when I type.

Astroboy14

12-20-2007, 10:32 AM

This (http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Fun/mobilecomputer.jpg) is how I picture VCO3 on his commute...

Redwing

12-20-2007, 10:41 AM

Huh. I'm an IT professional.

My laptops are my work machines; they go wherever I go, and honestly, anything that can run my email client, excel, word, and a crapload of ssh and RDP sessions is all I really need. I prefer the extra screen real estate of having a real monitor on my desk as well as the laptop screen, but I can get my job done without it.

Desktops at work become testbeds or bastion hosts to get around odd VPN setups. Desktops at home are gaming machines, or filesevers.

Both types of personal machines have their places, and we don't need another holy war in IT.

Duke of Rat

12-20-2007, 10:48 AM

If I had a laptop, I would take it on long airplane flights, and use it to model simple electronic circuits.

Then the terrorists have won!

control-z

12-20-2007, 10:50 AM

For web surfing, word processing, spreadsheets, etc laptops are great. They're small and portable. Really cool when you have a wireless Internet connection, roam around your house, I've even taken mine outside when I'm working on my car to check out photos of a part location.

Maybe you think you look like a douchebag using one in public, but what the fuck do you care what people think? If you wanna use your laptop in public, use it. They're just jealous anyway.

AHunter3

12-20-2007, 10:50 AM

My longest-viable computer ever (i.e., remained my newest and bestest computer the longest) was a laptop: PowerBook G3 Serial '98, aka "WallStreet" model.

• Upgrade: started off as a G3/300 MHz, 128 MB, 8 gig HD model with a CD/DVD drive (no burner); ended up a G4/500, 512 MB, with two 60 gig ultrafast internal HDs and a CDRW burner module (hot-swappable with DVD). OH, and it started off running MacOS 8.1 and ended up booting MacOS X 10.3.8

• Primary computer 1999-2006. That's seven years, not bad for one computer to reign as primary box. In fact I can still use it when the more modern 'book is in the shop or tied up and it's still viable & can run most modern sw.

• Desktop mode: It spent most of its life, both at home and at work, with an external screen alongside the built-in TFT (dual monitor setup), a nice external keyboard, and a mouse attached. I agree that laptops are clumsy to use when you have to rely on the built-in keyboard and the trackpad and so on, but I was only limited to that when I was on a train or a plane or something.

• Laptop mode: Dude, it's a laptop. It runs on batteries if necessary! You can take it anywhere and boot it up. It's even got a card that lets you go online using a cell phone network so you're not dependent on an available ethernet cable. Since it's running MacOS and not Windows, I didn't get a zillion "device XX could not be found" nor do I get a reciprocal zillion "new device XX has been found" next time I boot up at home. I had a dozen or so network configs I could swap to for different places it "knew about" to link up to existing networks with appropriate identities. Same with Eudora, the email client, I could send email from anywhere. Including using myself as my own SMTP server (thank you, PostFix)

I may never own a desktop computer again, I really like laptops.

susan

12-20-2007, 12:00 PM

Ah, here I sit, all comfy on the living room sofa while waiting for a return phone call. My nicely warm but not hot Compaq Presario rests on my lap, as my feet are up on the coffee table. A cat just jumped up to say hello. I'm using the wireless connection and browsing my work e-mail in one window and sequential message boards in another. I've taken care of a lot of work this morning, all in my jammies, none in my home office, where the desktop computer gathers dust. Have I mentioned that I bought the better battery when I got the laptop two years ago? It runs for 5.5-6 hours. Later this week I'll take it with me when I go to my in-laws so I can get some work done in the evening. In March I'll take it when I present at an international conference. For now, though, I'm enjoying being paid to sit on my own sofa in a comfortable room while I wait for a phone call. I'm living in the future, man.

Cluricaun

12-20-2007, 12:24 PM

This (http://iranscope.ghandchi.com/Fun/mobilecomputer.jpg) is how I picture VCO3 on his commute...

<snerk>

Tastes of Chocolate

12-20-2007, 12:45 PM

I have 3 different kinds of phones. A cell phone, a wired land line and a wireless land line. All have their different uses. My wired land line has the best sound, but I can't exactly use it when I'm not at home.

I have 3 different kinds of computers. A laptop, a gaming machine, and a media machine. All have their different uses. My gaming machine has the best performance, but I can't exactly take it on vacation with me, or into the other room.

(And no, 3 computers aren't really that expensive, when you cannibalize old ones to build new ones.)

iamthewalrus(:3=

12-20-2007, 01:00 PM

Most of the reasons people are giving in this thread for not liking laptops are pretty absurd reasons for preferring a desktop.

Battery life. You do realize that desktops don't have any battery life, right? This is a net plus for laptops. Even if the battery life were only an hour or so, that's an hour more usage that you get while on the go.
Heat. Desktops get hot, too. Hotter, in fact. You just don't notice because you can't use them anywhere like a laptop. If you bought a laptop and put it on a desk, then who cares. This is like complaining about the 10lb weight of a laptop, when you can't possibly hold a desktop on your lap.
Screen size/keyboard/mouse. Any modern laptop will hook up to whatever peripherals you want, just like a desktop. In every case, the laptop just gives you more options.

The only valid complaint is that they cost more for less power, and are harder to upgrade. Obviously, most people are willing to take the tradeoff in cost and power for greatly increased flexibility. For one, most people don't need an ultra powerful computer. It's laughable to think that you couldn't do the vast majority of your work on a laptop. High end graphics/video processing is about it, since most of the other work that requires high powered computation doesn't actually require you to do it on your computer. I write software, which mostly consists of reading and writing text files. When I need to compile it, I just copy it over, and tell the build servers to go to town.

The obvious solution to the upgrade problem is either to get USB-attachable components (which most are, nowadays), or to sell the old one and buy a new one with the capabilities you want.

Sarahfeena

12-20-2007, 01:21 PM

I suspect that there is a hidden pitting here. VCO3 isn't JUST pitting laptops...he's pitting everyone who uses one because they have a good reason to...like, they do mundane work on their computer rather than play games, and their mundane work sometimes has to be done in places that he doesn't approve of, like on public transportation or at Starbucks. These folks, who he perceives to be rich yuppies, don't deserve to live, much less use a tool that helps them remain gainfully employed.

Duke of Rat

12-20-2007, 01:25 PM

Sarahfeena

12-20-2007, 01:30 PM

They're all day traders, making money off their stock portfolios while ordering steak and lobster for their kids' lunch online. Exactly. Those rich bastards.

control-z

12-20-2007, 02:34 PM

They're all day traders, making money off their stock portfolios while ordering steak and lobster for their kids' lunch online.

I had some Italian/European guy borrow my laptop in a hospital waiting room last year to sell like $80,000 worth of Apple stock through PriceWaterhouse.com or something like that. He had a huge portfolio from what I could see.

JRDelirious

12-20-2007, 03:01 PM

Look at it this way, VCO3: a laptop is a piece of specialty computing hardware. People are stupid (surely you've figured that out by now!) and routinely use the wrong tool for the job. Obviously, a man who tries to use a broadsword as a screwdriver is a fool, but that does not make the broadsword a bad weapon. It makes it a bad screwdriver.

Right on. The laptop computer has its utility and you really can't tell from just looking at the person using one at the local HotSpot whether s/he is actually taking advantage of that utility or has wasted her/is money.

To people who know, it's obvious that the laptop's portability is attained by compromising certain performance aspects. The same dollar amount WILL buy you more speed/storage/video and far more ergonomic flexibility and expandability in a tower/desktop box than in a notebook.

It's a basic rule of economics, you make tradeoffs. But I'm not the one to censure someone else's choice.

Oh, and...
people think of a home computer as a glorified blackberry that they can use to send e-mail and read about Britney impregnating her own sister with her hydraulic metal penis.
...good to see some folks are keeping up with alt.sex.stories these days :p...

But you know what, I think I could very much go for something like an iPhone, only with haps more onboard storage, that could be connected via USB hub to a keyboard and through the hub or WiFi to regular peripherals, for extended use.

Beware of Doug

12-20-2007, 03:02 PM

This is just stupid and parochial.
[...] The fact that these people don't do the sort of work that you do, and don't require the same amount of computing power, doesn't mean that they're not doing work, or are just viewing movies and checking email.Nobody thinks that anybody whose work looks easier, less stressful, or less bullshit-intensive is earning an honest dollar.

Parochial? You bet. The rat race is run from pigeonholes.

susan

12-20-2007, 03:25 PM

Since the OP is MIA, it's DNFTT mode for me. Ciao.

black rabbit

12-20-2007, 03:28 PM

IT Professional and Aging Hipster Douchebag* checking in.

My employer issued me a Thinkpad R61 with a docking station. Other than the smallish hard drive and lame XGA screen (both of which are generally the achilles heel of Thinkpads vs. other manufacturers for the same money), it suits my purposes just fine. Plus, I don't have to dick around with installing company apps on my home machine, which is good, because my house is Linux-only. I get four hours on the extended battery, and the keyboard's better than some of the desktop keyboards I've used. When I'm in my cube, I drop it in the docking station with an external monitor, a mouse, and a real keyboard (http://www.pfusystems.com/hhkeyboard/images/200B.jpg). When I need to work on something in the lab, I can take my workstation with me.

Right now, I'm sitting in my wife's massage chair with my $800 Dell notebook. It gets six hours on a charge. It's got a gorgeous 1440x900 screen that's only 14.1" diagonally - if I wanted the equivalent number of pixels in a desktop monitor, I'd be looking at something that's at least 19".

The keyboard is decent, and the trackpad doesn't aggravate my RSI the way a mouse does. I can play 3D games - generally lame Linux OpenGL stuff, but I'm not really a gamer. It runs Audacity like a champ, and encodes a DVD in a couple or three hours.

I added a stick of RAM to it in five minutes. When I accidentally got some rubbing alcohol behind the screen, I replaced the LCD panel myself with a hundred bucks and a half hour with a precision screwdriver.

The only "desktop" machine in my house is a low-power 500mhz Via box stuffed full of disks that runs 24x7 and acts as an NFS server. I probably couldn't make it run mplayer if I wanted to.

Isn't the OP the idiot who posted a rant based on a price comparison to some low end HP gamer box to a fully loaded dual-Xeon Mac? What the fuck do you know about computers, VCO3?

* What's the only thing more lame than an Aging Hipster Douchebag? A Young Hipster Douchebag who a) doesn't realize he's a doucebag, and b) doesn't realize that one day he'll be aging. Chin up, buddy.

RTFirefly

12-20-2007, 03:34 PM

If I'm settling down for awhile to do serious work, I much prefer the desktop.

But the desktop needs to sit in one place, and I often want to be online while I'm somewhere besides where my desktop is. Sitting on the living room sofa, while relaxing on my deck, while by myself in a restaurant or coffeeshop with wifi, in an airport terminal...you get the idea. So I've got a laptop too.

I wouldn't want to use the laptop as my 'main' computer. But I'd hate to lug my desktop around from room to room, or take it with me while traveling.

Autolycus

12-20-2007, 03:39 PM

Since the OP is MIA, it's DNFTT mode for me. Ciao.

The OP responded plenty IMO.

iamthewalrus(:3=

12-20-2007, 03:48 PM

Right on. The laptop computer has its utility and you really can't tell from just looking at the person using one at the local HotSpot whether s/he is actually taking advantage of that utility or has wasted her/is money.Can't you? Doesn't the mere fact that someone is using the local HotSpot mean that they're taking advantage of the utility of the laptop? After all, the major advantage of a laptop is that it's portable.

I take advantage of my laptop's utility every time I don't have to get my ass off the couch to look something up on imdb or wikipedia while watching TV. ;)

jali

12-20-2007, 04:00 PM

At least he's not pitting African Americans.
Since we don't like coffee, we obviously don't go to Starbucks with our laptops.

(we stay at home with them in our laps.)

kidchameleon

12-20-2007, 04:14 PM

The OP responded plenty IMO.

Yeah, but you don't count; you've got a crush on him.

Voyager

12-20-2007, 06:02 PM

Anyway, yes I think laptops are pretty dumb. Small, cramped keyboards. Those lame trackpads. No scroll wheel. Much too short battery life. Crotch burning bottoms. No thank you.

And while I realize that every jackass at the coffee shop is like this, but most people that I've seen with laptops aren't actually using them. They have them on and the screen is displaying something colorful and important looking, but the laptop owner is staring into space while drinking his coffee. It's a very quick and easy way to spot the hipster ass holes.

I hate trackpads also. I have a trackball mouse, that you don't have to roll around, and works great in cramped areas like planes.
I've got big clunky hands, and have no trouble typing. I've only used my laptop in a coffee shop once, but that was to do a final run through of a talk I was giving, so that was pretty handy.

I have mine on a desk most of the time, and it takes up a lot less space than a desktop would.

Mangetout

12-20-2007, 06:23 PM

Just wanted to say "the newer"? Yes, I know that NiCad batteries were the only choice for awhile, but when I got my current laptop (4 years ago), I couldn't find a single NiCad-powered laptop*, unless I wanted to go to a huge trade center and find a vendor selling a laptop from 1997 barely able to run Win95's screensaver.

I really really doubt that the total number of NiCad laptops in use are more than a very small percentage of total laptops.
Not NiCd (although I have one such laptop - it has a 386 processor), but there are still a number of operational machines out there which run on NiMH batteries - these work best when they're charge-cycled properly. Lithium Ion ones prefer being kept topped up.

drachillix

12-20-2007, 06:31 PM

Both types of personal machines have their places, and we don't need another holy war in IT.

This is kinda the crux of it IMHO. Desktop machines, dollar for dollar are far more powerful creatures and orders of magnitude easier to repair or upgrade. The sad thing IMHO is people who are buying $1500 laptops thinking they are getting equivalent performance to their desk bound counterparts and its not even close. Its kinda like comparing a handheld circular saw to a tablesaw. Sure they both cut wood well, and can perform the same tasks in most cases, but a tablesaw easily develops/delivers far more power to the task than any hand saw.

I have also seen alot of places where you have an office full of laptops that never move and people feel like its some kind of status symbol that. Alot of the"cool points" for laptops go right out the windows when you need one fixed out of warranty. Businesses who buy laptops for deskbound staff, are IMNSHO idiots.

pulykamell

12-20-2007, 06:34 PM

I use my laptop for casual surfing, light photo editing, the occasional game or two, client presentations, and things like that. The desktop I use for hardcore processor-intensive applications like editing thousands of photos at a time (although I used to do that with my laptop). As much as I enjoy my desktop, I prefer the laptop for most purposes.

JRDelirious

12-20-2007, 06:38 PM

I hate trackpads also. I have a trackball mouse, that you don't have to roll around, and works great in cramped areas like planes.
I've got big clunky hands, and have no trouble typing. I've only used my laptop in a coffee shop once, but that was to do a final run through of a talk I was giving, so that was pretty handy.

I have mine on a desk most of the time, and it takes up a lot less space than a desktop would.

Me, I lament the virtual demise of the "eraserhead" trackpoint device. Yeah, right, so sue me for being weird -- I really could handle that thing far, far better than I ever could a trackpad. Plus with the trackpad in the place it is, I'm always accidentally swooping a thumb over it and sending my cursor God knows where across the page. first thing I do is get me an inexpensive USB mouse or trackball and disable that pad...

Una Persson

12-20-2007, 07:58 PM

Me, I lament the virtual demise of the "eraserhead" trackpoint device.
Silly boy, it's called the Clitoris Mouse.

gazpacho

12-20-2007, 08:01 PM

Silly boy, it's called the Clitoris Mouse.
Somewhere someone must have made an adult game where if you move it just right you get the computer off. Sort of a guitar hero game for the swinger set.

Brainiac4

12-20-2007, 08:44 PM

I've been a laptop guy for work for almost 8 years now, as long as I have worked at my current employer. We moved everyone working for the dotcom division (where I work, in ops) to laptops about two years ago. It's a huge help to be able to take my computer with me so I can work without having to go to my desk.

I'm not having the same issues with undersized keyboard and monitor that VC03 is, though -- I'm using a Compaq nw9440 with a 17" 1920x1280 monitor and a full-size keyboard with a 10-key. It costs about $3000, so it's not exactly what the average college kid is buying for his dorm room.

At home, I game (and surf the Dope) on a dedicated desktop machine, because I want higher performance than I can get in a laptop.

I don't get the disdain for laptops. Yes, some of them suck, but that's true of all computers. I'd rather have a decent laptop with a small screen and touchpad than a crappy desktop with a flickery tube monitor and a mouse crusted up with Cheetos.

Brainiac4

12-20-2007, 08:53 PM

Mangetout

12-21-2007, 02:41 AM

Silly boy, it's called the Clitoris Mouse.
http://xkcd.com/243/

Will Repair

12-21-2007, 04:52 AM

Laptops are pieces of ... Uh, yes, but it's my newest piece of so-and-so.

asterion

12-21-2007, 07:50 AM

I have a MacBook, and it's the first laptop I've used that I actually like. Apple made a lot of nice design decisions that keep it small and light but usable for what I need it for. (Only thing I wish it had is more USB ports.) That said, my desktop is still my workhorse and is a homebrew. If I had to give up one of my computers, it'd be the laptop.

So while I won't say that laptops are stupid and shitty, I do often find them to be lousy pieces of technology. Kinda like how a ton of companies make MP3 players, but a lot of them are simply pieces of crap.

Sarahfeena

12-21-2007, 09:52 AM

On a bit of further thinking... It's possible that VC03 is simply trolling. Kind of looks like it, but I think there is another option.

What if he's just completely unable to conceptualize that his experiences, perspectives and conclusions are not universal? His laptop is stupid and shitty, therefore all laptops are stupid and shitty, and people who buy them are idiots. Anyone who disagrees with him is just being confrontational. I think you're close, but there's a little more to it than that. I think what really is going on is that he simply disdains people who have legitimate needs for a laptop. He has said that he hates people he perceives as rich (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9277595&postcount=1). But his perception of rich is not just REAL rich...this "perception" includes people who are actually middle class (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9102664&postcount=1). Middle class people are often people with the kinds of jobs that require working on the go (which kind of requries a laptop), and, as I said earlier, doing mundane tasks like writing memos and preparing presentations (the kinds of things that a laptop is perfectly adequate for). Like I said, it's a disguise pitting of those folks.

When we had a recent dopefest here in Chicago, VCO3 said he wasn't going to come because we all hate him (even though I and at least one other person said it wasn't true at all, and wanted him to come). The funny thing about it is that none of the people who were there have ever said anything that I've seen that indicate that they hate him. In fact, HE has been the one who, indirect though it may be, has said that HE hates some of the folks who were there, by virtue of how he would perceive their social class. Between that and threads like this one, I'm starting to think what he really gets off on is trying to figure out all the ways he can set himself off from the crowd, and then feel like a persecuted outcast because of it (his threads about building circuitboards on a plane would be another example of it). It's not exactly trolling, but it is an attention-grabbing device.

Gary Kumquat

12-21-2007, 11:35 AM

Because the wife won't let me put a desk in the toilet.

dropzone

12-21-2007, 12:12 PM

Silly boy, it's called the Clitoris Mouse.Because of their nipplelike size and color and because it's a pun, I prefer "titmouse."

12-21-2007, 12:27 PM

Obviously the OP has never had to configure a network, router, switch, firewll, etc while leaning over a trailer balanced on one foot with the laptop precariously balanced on one knee. Or ever attempted to work in an airport/hotel room (be kind of funny if you had to lug your desktop through an airport then try and figure out where to plug it in on the plane). Attempting to use a desktop machine for what I do would be pretty much impossible.

Why would anyone buy one? Because they are pretty much vital to those of us who have to work in the real world. C'est la vie.

-XT

Sarahfeena

12-21-2007, 12:31 PM

Or ever attempted to work in an airport/hotel room (be kind of funny if you had to lug your desktop through an airport then try and figure out where to plug it in on the plane).

-XT Well, you know, when you are flying with an excellent diversion like a circuit board to work on, who needs a computer?

Eissclam

12-21-2007, 12:33 PM

Truly odd topic but anyway I love laptops.

My "desktop" is a Dell laptop with every bell and whistle I could add. Its attached to a docking station and flat screen monitor and sits quietly on the floor, under one side of the desk: my scanner sits atop the docking station so everything is compact and hidden. If the power goes out here at work (has happened) I don't lose a word. Every data collection computer in my lab is a laptop for the same reason. If there were to be a fire or other disaster (has NOT happened) I bring all my work with me.

My other computer is a Sony Vaio. Small screen is not scrunched when the guy in front of me reclines his airline seat. With the larger battery I can work transatlantic non-stop (i.e., 7+ hours).

I cannot imagine ever buying a desktop again, or getting worked up over this topic.

Club 33

12-21-2007, 12:56 PM

I don't think I have even turned on my desktop more than five times since I got a laptop almost 9 months ago. I use it for surfing, gaming, and most importantly, my job. As a writer, I am no longer confined to working in one room and that is a godsend. If it's a nice day, I can write outside. If I'm cooking something with a new recipe, I can bring it into the kitchen with me. If I go on the road, all my files are with me. I have a Dell with a 17" monitor and 2 Gigs of RAM and I have yet to find a task important to me that I'm unable to accomplish. It doesn't get hot, it doesn't make any noise, and after probably a couple of weeks of adjustment, I actually prefer to type on it. I plug my USB wireless mouse into it and I'm good to go.

I was once of the mindset that the people carrying their laptops around looked silly. And now, I'm one of them and happy as can be. Best computer purchase I have made in a long time.

12-21-2007, 12:58 PM

Well, my work laptop is one of those dinky Dell D400's with the external CD/DVD drive (I also have an external floppy disk drive and a few other odds and ends like a USB to 9 pin serial connector and such). It's cheap, light and very portable and has been a good tool.

When I travel I usually take a second laptop (my Alienware gaming box)...and it seems to do pretty good playing whatever it is I have time to play on it (it actually plays MTW II as well as my desktop computer at home...and might actually play WOW a touch better).

I think the OP simply has no concept of how real people use computers today outside of the home.

-XT

Zeriel

12-21-2007, 01:12 PM

I've had two HP Compaqs in a row as my work laptops, and they're both phenomenal--$1500 or less, plays all the games I want to on my off time, and I have docks at home and work to give me the keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Four hours of battery out of the new one--six if I'm just typing or reading and not gaming. With the EVDO card, I'm on the internet anywhere there's a cellphone signal.

Is it as powerful as my $2500 gaming desktop? Well, yes, but only because I'm due for a new one. It does what it does well, and it means I'm no longer constrained by needing a desktop computer and network connection anywhere I go--I'm a systems administrator, and my pager response time needs to be measured in minutes or the customers revolt. Maybe someday they'll make a smartphone that can run Cisco ASDM and AnyConnect, but I'm not holding my breath.

Laptops--a good tool that has a solid niche in the technology ecosystem.

Crotalus

12-21-2007, 01:17 PM

<snip>

I think the OP simply has no concept of how real people use computers today outside of the home.

-XTI think that you could broaden this statement to sum up much about VCO3. He seems to have no concept of how the world works and how people think and act outside his apparently very tiny personal experience. It appears to me that the simplest answer to his question - why would anyone buy a laptop? - is beyond his ability to understand. Laptops are popular primarily because they provide value to the people who buy them. I suppose that there are popular products whose value and utility are obscure, but laptops don't seem to be one of them. Even if I didn't use one, the value of portability would be fairly easy to appreciate vicariously, and it is obvious to almost everyone that portability is a very valuable attribute for a computer in the minds of millions of users.

RickJay

12-21-2007, 02:25 PM

Is it okay if I have a laptop if it's necessary to do my job? It would be pretty fucking hard to lug a desktop around a factory when I'm doing a quality assessment.

Just checking.

Will Repair

12-21-2007, 08:14 PM

Laptops are stupid. ... You look like a self-important ... for using one in public, especially in places like coffeeshops or restaurants, but especially on public transportation. Most of them are so fucking huge now that they won't fit anywhere or on anything anyway.

I'd read all the responses you got for this rant but I'm too busy with my new laptop that I use on the bus on the way to the airport's Starbucks. And this laptop was cheap; it only cost me four days of nursing a Judge Dredd back to health.

ParentalAdvisory

12-21-2007, 08:49 PM

Mod note:

OK, VCO3. Given your history of starting Pit threads and then never returning (latest example (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447031)), we're going to have a special rule for you. No more dropping Pit threads like steaming turds and then never returning. If you don't want to discuss a subject, don't start the thread. If you start a thread and never come back (or make only fake, token responses to get past this new rule on a technicality), you're going to start racking up warnings.

Note to all: this rule applies only to VCO3 and his adherence to it will be judged by the mods (rather than some arbitrary minimum quota of posts per thread).

This is a complete and utter bullshit rule to pin on one person here on these forums. The Reeder rule was just as fucking stupid.

cochrane

12-21-2007, 10:57 PM

I'm going to go against the grain here. As I said in my earlier post, I use my laptop in lieu of a desktop and find it performs well for what I generally do on a computer. Where I diverge from everyone else is - I don't have a mouse hooked up. I find the trackpad works just as well for me as a mouse does and don't even bother using a mouse. And it gives me more space on the desk.

gazpacho

12-21-2007, 11:06 PM

This is a complete and utter bullshit rule to pin on one person here on these forums. The Reeder rule was just as fucking stupid.I am of two minds about this. On one hand I think you are completely correct. It is a petty stupid rule. On the other hand I think that VCO3 is really working very hard to test the edges of not being a jerk and the powers that be are displaying a fair amount of tolerance toward him that is not displayed to posters with less of a history.

Bryan Ekers

12-22-2007, 12:33 AM

Hey, here's a thought: VCO3 should buy a laptop and modify it to his liking, perhaps on a plane....

9thFloor

12-22-2007, 12:34 AM

Hey, here's a thought: VCO3 should buy a laptop and modify it to his liking, perhaps on a plane....

Now, that's funny. :p

Obsidian

12-22-2007, 01:44 AM

You know, the mods get a lot of shit on this board... but this response is awesome!

I have a PowerMac G4 desktop that I never use, but a work MacBook Pro 15" and home MacBook Pro 17". Both are docked and used with external monitors and keyboards. So I have the best of both worlds. The MBP 15" that my uni provided for me has a BookEndz Dock... people in my department come by all the time and drool.

My employer offered me the option of a lapper or a desktop. It was a no-brainer when I saw that they made a dock for the MBP.

Hippy Hollow, you're my new favorite person. I have a MBP for work, and I'm going to start working from home two days a week. Plugging and unplugging the all the cables is annoying enough already, now I'll have the whole set up at home, too. I sent the link to for BookEndz to my boss with a note saying "Buy me!"

lowbrass

12-22-2007, 05:22 PM

Is it okay if I have a laptop if it's necessary to do my job? It would be pretty fucking hard to lug a desktop around a factory when I'm doing a quality assessment.

Just checking.

Back in the old days, they had these things called "pencils" and "paper". ;)

JRDelirious

12-22-2007, 07:54 PM

Is it okay if I have a laptop if it's necessary to do my job?
Does your job provide you more income than you absolutely need for day-to-day survival? Do you pay into a retirement fund, generating non-earned speculative investment income so that your net worth may exceed $500K when you reach old age? Does the "job" involve anything other than actual personal labor to produce some tangible thing, or direct personal, service that is a necessity to others' survival? :rolleyes:

'cos in the VCO3 universe, all that would mean that what you really need to do is give up the job :D ;)

RickJay

12-22-2007, 08:21 PM

Does your job provide you more income than you absolutely need for day-to-day survival? Do you pay into a retirement fund, generating non-earned speculative investment income so that your net worth may exceed $500K when you reach old age? Does the "job" involve anything other than actual personal labor to produce some tangible thing, or direct personal, service that is a necessity to others' survival? :rolleyes:

'cos in the VCO3 universe, all that would mean that what you really need to do is give up the job :D ;)
But if I say I'm black, then to VCO3 I become a mysterious, magical being, and the rules might apply differently to me. So I'll stick with that story.

GIGObuster

12-22-2007, 08:24 PM

I'd read all the responses you got for this rant but I'm too busy with my new laptop that I use on the bus on the way to the airport's Starbucks. And this laptop was cheap; it only cost me four days of nursing a Judge Dredd back to health.

A Judge Dredd?

It may be interesting for you to explain more because then you may had beat me, I just got a hold of a Dell Inspiron, it "only" cost me 45 dollars.

A relative brought the broken laptop to me to take a look, and after several attempts with other hard drives it was clear the problem was internal, might as well buy a new laptop so he decided to give me the carcass (minus the hard drive that still worked in a portable enclosure that he took) I tinkered with the laptop for several days and after a cleanup a spare small hard drive worked, and after a memory upgrade ($45) I have a nice wireless laptop.

I had laptops before but there were way under powered; so far this machine is doing a great job and I will use it on the writing protects I have. So I have to disagree with the OP.

(posted from my "new" laptop) :D

GusNSpot

12-23-2007, 01:05 AM

One Linux desktop , 2 Windows PC (his & hers), one laptop (for travel). I use the best tool for which ever job is at hand.

Rucksinator

12-23-2007, 11:39 AM

............Here's a horrible laptop story.....

Why didn't you just pit this guy?

Rucksinator

12-23-2007, 12:13 PM

(Since we're all being IMHO here....)

I use my desktop 99% of the time. I used my laptop when I was working out of a hotel room (lugging a tower and monitor around would have been more difficult). Since I have to type in a lot of numbers, I had to go out and buy a $15 USB keyboard. (I drooled over the first laptop that I saw with 10 key. It does annoy me that my Toshiba laptop is wide enough to have a 15.4" display (big at the time), but has wasted space on the sides where a number pad probably could have been wedged in.)

Now, if I had the money, I'd get one of these: Dell XPS M2010 (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m2010?c=us&l=en&s=gen&~section=specs)