So, was anyone's Christmas more disgusting than mine? [Archive]

DiosaBellissima

12-26-2007, 12:06 PM

Not along the same lines as yours, I suppose, but disgusting in the more moral sense. We went and handed out food at the homeless shelter which was a great experience in itself, but I think the whole thing was more depressing than anything.

The kids didn't even really realize where they were or that they were missing out on some greater Christmas tradition, it seemed- kids are resilient like that, you know? The adults certainly seemed depressed, which was sad, but they were all wishing us a Merry Christmas with smiles- that was really sweet. I always think it's always really surprising but. . . touching, when people who are struggling manage to be much stronger than I think I could ever be in that situation.

Anyway, the disgusting thing was the woman who was talking about how her baby was due any day now- sometime before the new year. I have never seen someone who was 9+ months pregnant with such a small stomach in my entire life. Her belly was TINY. It seriously looked like she was bloated from eating a big lunch. The woman also had skin that was all messed up and pock marked out, she was twitching a little, she was insanely thin, and her teeth were all messed up. Being from one of the meth capitals of the world, I would bet my paycheck on the fact that meth was her problem.

I know it isn't fair or even right for me to judge her, especially since she quite clearly- for one reason or another- is at a very tough spot in her life. But, just seeing how tiny she was and how obviously tiny her soon to be born baby is, was just heartbreaking. I know addiction is an awful disease, but the fact that someone could do that to their own child. . . that's probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen.

Maybe I'm totally wrong though. Maybe I'm making assumptions that are totally off base. I hope that's the case.

Tully Mars

12-26-2007, 12:25 PM

Bless you, Diosa, for volunteering.

The high (read low) point of my Christmas, spent with my wife's family, was hearing her chronically unemployed nephew talk about the "White Pride" tattoo he was planning to get. That was pretty much the tone for the whole day. The only bright spot was assembling toys for my granddaughter and playing with her.

Yllaria

12-26-2007, 12:41 PM

DiosaBellissima, I'm going to hope that she was wrong or lying about the pregnancy. Any chance of that?

You have my admiration for helping others during Christmas.

Zulema

12-26-2007, 12:44 PM

No, but only because my mom died two years ago.

Chief Pedant

12-26-2007, 01:59 PM

I got to eat dinner in a cluttered, filthy house while watching roaches scurry all over my mother's kitchen.
One hopes you took the opportunity to tidy and clean before setting out roach traps.

For less than $25 your Christmas gift to Mom could have been more extraordinary than anything Bill Gates could buy...thanks for reminding us all that our lives are what we make of them.

Misnomer

12-26-2007, 02:05 PM

Kalhoun

12-26-2007, 02:11 PM

My christmas was spent with my family, but my dad is sick...undiagnosed, but scary sick...so didn't have too much fun. I made a complicated meal that was planned and purchased prior to finding out how sick he was. And this was the first time I hosted christmas in my way-too-small house. I was so stressed out that I didn't really have time to spend with my guests until after clean-up; at which time I was ready to drop. The tykes had fun and were just as cute as could be, and I adore my son's girlfriend. It could have been worse, but it could have been a hell of a lot better. Hoping to find out what's wrong with my dad within the next couple weeks.

DiosaBellissima

12-26-2007, 02:45 PM

DiosaBellissima, I'm going to hope that she was wrong or lying about the pregnancy. Any chance of that?

You have my admiration for helping others during Christmas.

First, thank you to both of you for kind comments. I don't deserve any praise though, it's something everyone should do! :)

Anywho, I don't know the lady, so maybe she was lying. Actually, I hope she was lying. That said, her stomach was the same shape as someone that far along (I'm not a pregnancy expert or anything, but just from watching my friends I've noticed that when the belly drops, it tends to take on a different shape than before), just much, much smaller. I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but that's how I saw it.

I can't imagine someone on meth could have a very healthy pregnancy and if she's in the homeless shelter, I'd venture to say she probably has had minimal prenatal care at best. Hopefully that baby will be ok and she can clean her life up, because I can't even imagine the struggles that kid is going to face straight out of the womb.

DoctorJ

12-26-2007, 03:06 PM

The high (read low) point of my Christmas, spent with my wife's family, was hearing her chronically unemployed nephew talk about the "White Pride" tattoo he was planning to get.
Man, back in residency we used to love it when those idiots would come in. (Not surprisingly, they ended up in the hospital a lot.) Of course, we provided them with the same care we would provide anyone, but that didn't mean we couldn't go out of our way to make sure it was provided by every minority doctor, nurse, and tech we could round up, the bigger and meaner-looking the better.

One ER doc--a black guy who played college football--would stay late on his shift to see folks with white pride-type tattoos, just because he loved watching them try to keep them covered up. He would pointedly stare straight at the tattoo as much as he could, but he would be completely professional and courteous without saying a word about it.

lisacurl

12-26-2007, 03:12 PM

One hopes you took the opportunity to tidy and clean before setting out roach traps.

For less than $25 your Christmas gift to Mom could have been more extraordinary than anything Bill Gates could buy...thanks for reminding us all that our lives are what we make of them.If you think that gesture would be met with anything other than horror and extreme affront by someone living in squalor*, then you know nothing about what it's like to deal with someone like that.

*People who live in squalor by "choice" because of depression or other mental illness. See www.squalorsurvivors.com, or see www.childrenofhoarders.com for the perspective on what it's like to grow up in a home like that.

Misnomer, the only reason I've avoided a Christmas dinner similar to yours in the last few years is because my mother's hovel was further damaged by Hurricane Katrina, and the mold growth has made it impossible for me to enter the premises. You have my sympathy.

Drunky Smurf

12-26-2007, 03:13 PM

And thanks for reminding me that there will always be people who assume they know what they're talking about, despite their utter ignorance of the situation.
Perhaps if you explained your situation people wouldn't have to assume things.

CarnalK

12-26-2007, 03:29 PM

Perhaps if you explained your situation people wouldn't have to assume things.
It doesn't take much brains to realize you ain't fixing a fucking cockroach problem with $25 and a one day clean up. Nor to realize that there may be bigger problems if someone is choosing to live in filthy conditions.

Don't fight the hypothetical

12-26-2007, 03:38 PM

Just as Misnomer choose to spend Christmas with her then complain about it without offering any apparent help with the situation.

I had problems with my dad. I loved him but avoided situations I disliked that were created by him.

CarnalK

12-26-2007, 03:51 PM

Just as Misnomer choose to spend Christmas with her then complain about it without offering any apparent help with the situation.
?

The OP was one frigging sentence. You haven't a clue as to what Misnomer has tried to do to help his/her mother.
I had problems with my dad. I loved him but avoided situations I disliked that were created by him.
Well, good for you. I guess Misnomer decided she liked visiting her mother on Christmas enough to put up with something she disliked.

Misnomer

12-26-2007, 03:56 PM

Perhaps if you explained your situation people wouldn't have to assume things.Perhaps if people didn't have to be so judgmental I'd be allowed to simply vent about an unpleasant experience without having to go into complicated, heartwrenching details that could never be fully or properly explained in writing and/or to a bunch of strangers.

Zulema

12-26-2007, 04:08 PM

Thank You lisacurl

People who choose to live like that do not welcome any comments on their lifestyle. You can't clean for them or try to help organize clutter. Any suggestions of how things could be different are taken as criticism and met with anger so you try to make the person happy by acting like every thing is normal. Then you go home and feel brokenhearted because your relative or friend is really miserable but you can't help them.

Drunky Smurf

12-26-2007, 04:09 PM

Kneepants Erasmus, the Humanist

12-26-2007, 04:24 PM

Um.

YAY!!! Tahssa wins!

Gold star, etc.

Misnomer

12-26-2007, 04:32 PM

Thanks to everyone who has responded, especially those who can sympathize -- and most especially those who just said "yuck." That's really all I was after, just some "ick factor" acknowledgment.

Lisacurl, you're my new hero. :)

Well then if the only criteria I have to go on to see if my Christmas was more disgusting than yours is cockroaches then yes mine was.That's the only criteria I provided, isn't it? I'm sorry that your Christmas involved more disgusting things than filth and roaches.

ShelliBean

12-26-2007, 04:46 PM

I filed my complaint for divorce on the Friday before I left for Christmas, and we went in and signed papers today.

I feel disgusted.

Cattitude

12-26-2007, 04:48 PM

Perhaps if people didn't have to be so judgmental I'd be allowed to simply vent about an unpleasant experience without having to go into complicated, heartwrenching details that could never be fully or properly explained in writing and/or to a bunch of strangers.

Because those that are judging don't have a parent who lives in filth. I know what it's like to clean the entire apartment AGAIN. After a certain number of years, I gave up. I realized that it truly is a part of her mental illness and she is not "just a pig". She's sick and no amount of my cleaning is going to change that.

So now she lives with the bugs, the mice and multiple cats. I visit for very limited amounts of time and shake my coat when I leave. :eek:

You're not alone.

teela brown

12-26-2007, 04:49 PM

If you think that gesture would be met with anything other than horror and extreme affront by someone living in squalor*, then you know nothing about what it's like to deal with someone like that.

Yep. Years ago, I went to stay at my mom's house while she was in the hospital. Itching to do something, anything for her (since I couldn't speed her healing), I cleaned up her kitchen. My mom didn't live in extreme squalor by any means, but she was a borderline hoarder. Every surface of her kitchen was covered in ketchup packets, coffee-stained napkins, and paper salt and pepper envelopes which she brought home from fast-food joints and saved up against imaginary poverty (she was a depression baby). By the looks of them, some were years old. I swept them all into the trash and scrubbed and polished the counters.

Boy, was she mad when she got home. Far from seeing it as helping her with housekeeping, she as good as accused me of stealing them from her. I learned my lesson.

susan

12-26-2007, 04:51 PM

If it's any consolation, my furniture is spotted with bloody mucus and therefore I just had to have the cat's infected anal glands expressed.

lisacurl

12-26-2007, 05:11 PM

Lisacurl, you're my new hero. :)Children risen from filth, unite! ;) One of my closest friends "came out" to me as a child of a squalor mom only after we'd been friends for years. We hugged like sisters and shared war stories.

Omigosh, teela brown! I did the same thing when my mom was sick with the flu about seven years ago. I started cleaning her kitchen, and I swear, she dragged herself out of her sickbed to scream at me for doing it.

VarlosZ

12-26-2007, 05:21 PM

"The SDMB: Where smart people come to judge others."

I was very surprised to see one person get snooty towards the OP. That there were multiple posters who took that path, I can hardly believe.

Smeghead

12-26-2007, 05:25 PM

Last Wednesday evening, my 10-week pregnant wife had a rush of blood that sent us in a panic to the emergency room. There, she had an ultrasound that told us that the baby had stopped developing at 6 weeks, and there was no heartbeat. Since then, we've been waiting for the miscarriage to begin. We were given some medication (which had to be inserted vaginally) to jumpstart the process, but she didn't want to do that until after all the Christmas stuff was over with.

So Christmas night, I inserted those pills into her for her. The (very painful) cramps began quite soon, and at about 4 am, she passed the fetal tissue. I collected it for her and put it in a plastic bag in the freezer so we can bring it in with us at our appointment Friday morning.

Not an experience I want to repeat.

susan

12-26-2007, 05:28 PM

So very sorry, Smeghead.

essell

12-26-2007, 05:30 PM

I spent all of Christmas Day blowing my nose. I had a stack of used tissue next to my desk until two hours ago when I felt well enough to tidy a bit. I think Roaches are worse.

And now my Wife has the cold too, so I won't be getting any "me" time for the next few days while I take care of her. Not to mention no Christmas sex

Attack from the 3rd dimension

12-26-2007, 05:39 PM

Condolences, Smeghead. That's a brutal situation at any time, and even more so during the holidays.

vivalostwages

12-26-2007, 07:36 PM

Misnomer, is your mother a compulsive hoarder? Just wondering since I have a friend who is, and she can't have anyone in her house unless she's desperate for plumbing help or something. Nobody wants to go in there anyway.

Chief Pedant

12-26-2007, 09:58 PM

And thanks for reminding me that there will always be people who assume they know what they're talking about, despite their utter ignorance of the situation.

To be clear: I am not judging your mother, nor pretending to know anything about her situation.

I am judging your determination that your violin's tune be "Look how wretched my situation is. Could there be a worse one?"

Yes, there could be. And no, there is no excuse for not improving what you can and letting the rest go. I am sure you will find people to join your pity party, but I will not be one of them. If you want to make a positive difference in the world, describe your Mom's situation, and what you did within your power to improve it.

If you just want to beat the bushes for fellow sufferers in a contest for who is the most miserable, have at it.

Ferret Herder

12-26-2007, 10:03 PM

Smeghead, I'm so sorry.

Swallowed My Cellphone

12-26-2007, 10:58 PM

Oh, man. Smeg, sorry to hear about your really lousy holidays.

Misnomer

12-26-2007, 11:05 PM

Smeghead, your Christmas wasn't more disgusting but was certainly more horrifying -- indescribably so. I am deeply sorry for your loss.

Children risen from filth, unite! ;)Heh! One of the most frustrating parts is that when I was a kid, my father's influence in the house kept things under control -- and then my influence did (after they divorced). But once I moved out of her house it started going downhill, and it's been a slow, steady slide for the past 13 years. It's only been in recent years that I've realized this is how she has always been, it's just that there used to be other people in the house to mitigate the effects.

Meh, even that is more than I planned to say on the subject, but whatever. :)

Misnomer, is your mother a compulsive hoarder?I often wonder that, myself, but really don't know.

If you just want to beat the bushes for fellow sufferers in a contest for who is the most miserable, have at it.Well, gee, thanks for giving me permission to have this thread. You are now free to fuck off.

Klaatu

12-26-2007, 11:05 PM

I got to eat dinner in a cluttered, filthy house while watching roaches scurry all over my mother's kitchen.

You post an extremely vague, one sentence OP in the Pit. Many people live in cluttered houses, and "filthy" could have a million different meanings. And in many parts of the country, roaches are impossible to get rid of, no matter how clean your house is.

Why exactly did you post this in the Pit? Sorry, but what kind of responses did you expect? That OP could well have been satirical bullshit. If there is some backstory here, be aware not all readers may know it.

I for one read it and thought "so what, I have no idea what this person is talking about."

Misnomer

12-26-2007, 11:25 PM

You post an extremely vague, one sentence OP in the Pit. Many people live in cluttered houses, and "filthy" could have a million different meanings. And in many parts of the country, roaches are impossible to get rid of, no matter how clean your house is.When "cluttered," "filthy," and "roaches" all appear in the same sentence, describing the same place, only the willfully obtuse would call that "vague."

Why exactly did you post this in the Pit? Sorry, but what kind of responses did you expect?I posted this in the Pit because I had a crappy experience yesterday, and needed to vent. I expected responses from a) people who had a more disgusting Christmas than I did, whatever their definition of "disgusting" (like Diosa's post); b) people who could relate, and/or c) people who would get that I was just looking for a sympathetic "yuck" or two.

If there is some backstory here, be aware not all readers may know it.Well, duh! If I wanted "all readers" to know the backstory, I would have posted it, wouldn't I? I didn't feel it to be necessary for a brief Pit thread, when the point was what I'd experienced, not the story around it.

I for one read it and thought "so what, I have no idea what this person is talking about."So why didn't you simply ignore the thread?

DanBlather

12-26-2007, 11:33 PM

You post an extremely vague, one sentence OP in the Pit. Many people live in cluttered houses, and "filthy" could have a million different meanings. And in many parts of the country, roaches are impossible to get rid of, no matter how clean your house is.

Why exactly did you post this in the Pit? Sorry, but what kind of responses did you expect? That OP could well have been satirical bullshit. If there is some backstory here, be aware not all readers may know it.

I for one read it and thought "so what, I have no idea what this person is talking about."Thank your lucky stars you don't. I understood it right off.

Klaatu

12-26-2007, 11:35 PM

Sorry, I read all Pit threads, your vague OP included. Sympathetic yucks or two would be more suited to MPSIMS, I would think.

I hope things go better for you and your family in the new year. I won't comment anymore in your thread.

Contrapuntal

12-26-2007, 11:37 PM

Sorry, I read all Pit threads, your vague OP included. Really? All of them? Do you post in all of them too?

Klaatu

12-27-2007, 12:22 AM

Really? All of them? Do you post in all of them too?

No I don't. Unlike you, I have better things to do than post inane bullshit six times a day, (averaged over a few years) to an anonymous internet message board.

MoodIndigo1

12-27-2007, 12:28 AM

I'm sorry about your Christmas, Misnomer. That was a brief but sad post.

Smeghead, I'm so very sorry you and your wife went through such pain and sorrow. I've been there, but thank goodness, not in the holiday season.

Sorry about the thread drift-- my Christmas was one of the few good ones I remember.

Heffalump and Roo

12-27-2007, 12:29 AM

I posted this in the Pit because I had a crappy experience yesterday, and needed to vent. I expected responses from a) people who had a more disgusting Christmas than I did, whatever their definition of "disgusting" (like Diosa's post); b) people who could relate, and/or c) people who would get that I was just looking for a sympathetic "yuck" or two.
While I'm sorry for your experience, I also have to question why this is in the Pit.

If you wanted others to talk about their own bad experiences, there's IMHO.

If you wanted sympathy, there MPSIMS.

If you just wanted to vent, there's MYSPACE.

Contrapuntal

12-27-2007, 12:48 AM

No I don't. Unlike you, I have better things to do than post inane bullshit six times a day, (averaged over a few years) to an anonymous internet message board.But you have time to read all of the Pit threads? I can post six times in six minutes. Especially if the bar is set at "inane bullshit."

You know what? I think you're lying when you say that you read all the Pit threads. And I think that if your post to Misnomer is an example of non inane non bullshit, then your vision is so clouded with your own fecal matter as to be unreliable. Ask your friend. He may have some words of wisdom for you.

Miller

12-27-2007, 01:07 AM

No I don't. Unlike you, I have better things to do than post inane bullshit six times a day, (averaged over a few years) to an anonymous internet message board.

So your posts in this thread are what? A special holiday bonus for all of us?

CarnalK

12-27-2007, 01:35 AM

To be clear: I am not judging your mother, nor pretending to know anything about her situation.

I am judging your determination that your violin's tune be "Look how wretched my situation is. Could there be a worse one?"

Yes, that one sentence of hers sure seems like the perfect opportunity to show off your own awesomeness. Awesome judgment.

SomeUserName

12-27-2007, 05:17 AM

Every surface of her kitchen was covered in ketchup packets, coffee-stained napkins, and paper salt and pepper envelopes which she brought home from fast-food joints and saved up against imaginary poverty (she was a depression baby). By the looks of them, some were years old. I swept them all into the trash and scrubbed and polished the counters.

This post paints a picture of my mothers kitchen to a tee.

She also hoards food. She has more food in her cupboards and shelves than I have, probably four to five times as much. She lives alone, in my house there are three adults.

"imaginary poverty" That statement hits the nail on the head.

People who choose to live like that do not welcome any comments on their lifestyle. You can't clean for them or try to help organize clutter. Any suggestions of how things could be different are taken as criticism and met with anger so you try to make the person happy by acting like every thing is normal. Then you go home and feel brokenhearted because your relative or friend is really miserable but you can't help them.

This is my experiance as well. My mother acts as though there is nothing wrong with her place and if I did make a comment it would be taken as harsh criticism. She demands unconditional love, her appearance nor the appearance of her apartment should effect that love so there is no reason to discuss it. Period.

Heh! One of the most frustrating parts is that when I was a kid, my father's influence in the house kept things under control -- and then my influence did (after they divorced). But once I moved out of her house it started going downhill, and it's been a slow, steady slide for the past 13 years. It's only been in recent years that I've realized this is how she has always been, it's just that there used to be other people in the house to mitigate the effects.

This is the same as it was in my house. It was not until my parents divorced and my mother moved into an apartment by herself that it began. Even then it seemed that now and then she would straighten up. She was working then and had more friends visit along with myself and the grandkids so I think that slowed the process.

She has been on disabilty now for many years so the processed has sped up quite a bit.

Thank your lucky stars you don't. I understood it right off.

As did I.

I do not visit my mother at all. The most I am in her house is to drop off groceries.

There is no place to even set the groceries much less sit at her kitchen table. Even if she clears an area the smell would drive me out in a short time anyway.

I do not clean for her nor do I offer to. Once every six months she has a friend visit from out of town so she pays her grand daughter to come over and help her "clean". That only consists of the kitchen and bathroom area. The rest is left in filth.

I also do not speak with her on the phone very much as I get trapped into an hour long call that consists of everything in her life in great detail.

I love my mom but I can not let her way of life effect me any longer. I had to let it go and live my life. I will not be responsible for her actions. I know she has a problem. There is no doubt in my mind she is a hoarder and is most likely a form of OCD. I am sure as well that being a depression baby just reinforces the feeling she has to hold on to things.

That said I am one of the lucky ones. It did not effect my childhood and as an adult I no longer let it effect me. I refuse to feel guilty anymore for not offering to help her clean or to feel guilty for not visiting her on a regular basis.

There are times I wish things were different but they are not so I deal with what I have.

Misnomer I don't know your situation and you have no obligation to discuss it. I understood your brief post as it seems many others did.

It does sound like with the information you have given that your mom is a hoarder. The links that lisacurl provider are great sites. I have spent hours on them myself getting information and support.

enipla

12-27-2007, 08:05 AM

Because those that are judging don't have a parent who lives in filth. I know what it's like to clean the entire apartment AGAIN. After a certain number of years, I gave up. <snip> You're not alone.Ain't it the truth.

You struggle and fight and reason and steam until you are finaly 'allowed' to help. Then 3 months latter, it's back to square one.

The last time I really cleaned my Dads house, I used a yard rake and rented a 20 yard roll off dumpster....

Spit

12-27-2007, 08:37 AM

"The SDMB: Where smart people come to judge others."

I was very surprised to see one person get snooty towards the OP. That there were multiple posters who took that path, I can hardly believe.

Amen. You gotta love the healthcare worker talking about making patients uncomfortable in the hospital. I didn't care whether someone was black/white/purple/green, Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Atheist/Scientologist, or racist/misogynist/elitest/egotist/[insert your -ist here] when I was a paramedic- they were all treated equally as badly by me.

Misnomer

12-27-2007, 09:05 AM

I will never understand why anyone -- who isn't a mod -- bothers to post in threads just to say that they don't think the OP should have started the thread, or to question which forum it should have been started in. Talk about shutting the barn door after the horse is out, wasting more bandwith than any OP ever could, etc. If you don't like the topic of a thread, ignore it. This is not the Compulsory Participation Message Board.

Sympathetic yucks or two would be more suited to MPSIMS, I would think.While I'm sorry for your experience, I also have to question why this is in the Pit.I've been a member of the SDMB long enough to know that even the clearest, most straighforward of OPs can easily be hijacked and shat upon by some of the judgmental assholes here. Most of the time I don't bother posting stuff like this at all, but when I do it always starts in the Pit: otherwise, I couldn't call the two of you (and Chief Pedant) judgmental assholes and tell you to fuck off, now could I? If a thread like this were ever to not go downhill, the mods would be free to move it. But folks like you keep coming through for the rest of us, so it stays in the Pit.

Kalhoun

12-27-2007, 09:27 AM

I was part of a team of family members who went in to clean up my SIL's place. She was a neat freak for most of her life until "Uncle" who lived in a shit-hole for his entire adult life, moved in with her. Everyone blamed his first wife for the squalor situation, but when he moved out, the squalor went with him. This is a guy who fed the dogs by opening a can of dog food and plopping it on the bare floor. A guy whose laundry room was literally packed from floor to ceiling with the dirty laundry of his 7 children. It is a form of mental illness, and anyone who has ever lived with it knows that it is impossible to fix it from the outside. Eventually, the bandaid falls off. My sympathies to the OP. I imagine it is infinitely more depressing during the holidays.

enipla

12-27-2007, 10:15 AM

<snip>Omigosh, teela brown! I did the same thing when my mom was sick with the flu about seven years ago. I started cleaning her kitchen, and I swear, she dragged herself out of her sickbed to scream at me for doing it.My Wife and I also take care of my Dads dog. We have pretty much drawn a line in the sand about that. We clip her nails and groom her. Still he manages put off about every other time we plan on doing it.

The Friday before Christmas, he called my Mom and asked her to tell me to stop with the animal care. "He knows what's best" (total bullshit). When my Mom said it was not her place to tell me how to handle this, he started yelling at her and hung up on her.

We get the same reaction when we try to clean.

Sorry about the continued hi-jack.

olivesmarch4th

12-27-2007, 10:36 AM

Misnomer, I for one am glad you started the thread. I know nothing about hoarding and had no idea it affected so many people. Ignorance fought!

Hope things get better for you in the future...

And Smeghead, Jesus H. Christ, that is NOT the way someone should have to spend Christmas. You and your family have my sympathies and well-wishes.

pravnik

12-27-2007, 11:37 AM

My sympathies for anyone with a compulsive hoarder in the family. It's a natural reaction to say that if someone's house is in a bad way you should offer to help clean it up, but compulsive hoarding is a particularly virulent form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that goes so far beyond simple untidyness it's hard to imagine. My aunt's ex-husband was, and almost certainly still is, a compulsive hoarder. In addition having to deal with the more commonly known symptoms of OCD, he had to have each day's newspaper carefully stacked around the house in a certain manner, until the whole house was ceiling high with rotting newspaper and other assorted garbage. You couldn't just clean it out for him, because disturbing his surroundings in any way would cause him unbearable psychological pain. It's a pretty awful way to live.

Don't fight the hypothetical

12-27-2007, 11:52 AM

I posted this in the Pit because I had a crappy experience yesterday, and needed to vent. I expected responses from a) people who had a more disgusting Christmas than I did, whatever their definition of "disgusting" (like Diosa's post); b) people who could relate, and/or c) people who would get that I was just looking for a sympathetic "yuck" or two.
If you've been here long enough (as you've suggested) you should know better that to expect any certain outcome. I post what I feel, not to meet your expectations. Yes, for your expectations this is the wrong forum. I'm not posting that just to say you are wrong, I'm pointing out that if you want your expectations met there are friendlier places to post.

I'm sorry for your experience at Christmas. I hope things get better.

dangermom

12-27-2007, 11:54 AM

Misnomer, this thread has also educated me a lot. I knew that hoarding is a tragic mental illness, but looking at the CoH site really hit home and taught me about how difficult it is to love someone with this problem.

It also feels a little too familiar; I can really see my in-laws going this route in the future. For as long as I've known them, they've cleaned too little and collected too much, but their frequent moves and lack of money kept it somewhat under control. When they moved into a house and stayed there for 10 years, it got so that we couldn't visit after a while (they said it was too messy, so we met at my BIL's house). They lost the house last year and are now in an apartment again, but the move was nighmarish for my husband and his brother; the house was full of junk and they had done nothing to prepare for the move. Now their apartment is full of boxes of junk that haven't been dealt with.

As they get older and all their children are gone, they deal with it less, and now I'm thinking that we may have this in our future too. My MIL doesn't scream at me if I try to help, but she refuses any assistance and keeps piles of junk mail that she refuses to toss--and she wasn't quite that bad several years ago. I guess that sounds familiar to some of you?

OK, now that I've written that out, I think I need a thread to help me understand this better. Would anyone be willing to start a CoH thread? I completely understand if no one does, since this is such a sensitive subject and Dopers aren't renowned for their sensitivity.

Slypork

12-27-2007, 12:18 PM

Smeghead, I am so sorry. Have been through similar situations many times. My thoughts and prayers (if you want them) are with you and your wife. Hug her, hold her, cry with her and tell her you love her.

lisacurl

12-27-2007, 12:50 PM

OK, now that I've written that out, I think I need a thread to help me understand this better. Would anyone be willing to start a CoH thread? I completely understand if no one does, since this is such a sensitive subject and Dopers aren't renowned for their sensitivity.I will do my best, but could use some support from the other kids of squalor. :(

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=449241

P.S. - Smeghead, I have no words, I'm just so damn sorry.

Litoris

12-27-2007, 02:00 PM

DiosaBellissima -- yeh, it's something everyone should do, but not enough actually do. Thanks for volunteering. As for the woman, I just wanted to reassure you with one thought -- when I was pregnant with my daughter, I was not on meth, I was quite healthy and yet 3 days before I gave birth to her (admittedly a little over a month early), a woman flat-out called me a liar when I told her I was 8 months' pregnant. I was tiny, and wearing a bikini -- and the woman told me to stop lying there was "no way in hell" I was pregnant, let alone about to give birth. My daughter was perfectly healthy, some women don't weigh 900lbs when they're about to give birth, maybe she was one of the lucky few :) I will hope so for the sake of the baby.

As for the OP, while I can understand what has (very likely) happened to cause your post, I think perhaps this would have been more suited to MPSIMS, as it is human nature to judge based on what is known. The only thing you made known was that you were repulsed and disgusted by your mother's living conditions. It is tough to accept that you could feel that way, and still do nothing. Sadly, I know from whence you come -- there is a reason I never ate at my Dad's house -- but there is this amazing stuff that is very, very cheap and works. I sneaked into my Dad's house about once a quarter the last year he was with us and put it out. The roaches were all gone within a week, and the stuff is easy to put out without being noticed -- send me a PM and I will tell you more if you want.

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

12-27-2007, 07:18 PM

I rubbed lotion on my Dad's rapidly necrotizing feet!

Pushkin

12-27-2007, 07:26 PM

To answer the OP, no, definitely not. I had to change a few nappies but now my daughter is off formula milk her soiled nappies aren't what they used to be.

Ruby

12-27-2007, 11:43 PM

Yes, this is the Pit where you don't have to play nice, but damn, Misnomer, take a breath.

You're quick to bounce on anyone who thinks your OP was a more than just a little vague. I've never known anyone who is a hoarder. How in the Sam Hell am I supposed to know what you mean? And how is asking you to give more details rude? If I KNEW more, then maybe you'd get the response you were looking for?

After looking at the links upthread, I can't imagine the complete feeling of helplessness that you must feel every time you walk into your mother's home. I'm guessing that mental health experts are out of the question because she doesn't see that there's a problem. That's very sad, indeed.

Smeghead, I also can't know the pain and loss that you and your wife are going through right now.

Godspeed to you both.

slaphead

12-28-2007, 04:45 AM

I got to eat dinner in a cluttered, filthy house while watching roaches scurry all over my mother's kitchen.
Sorry, you win. Roaches are not that common in the UK, and after my other half and I spent two hours decontaminating mum's kitchen it wasn't too bad. Picking dog hair off the Chipolatas is an interesting experience though. :p

Do you also do the 'sneaky throwing away of the super-expired food when she isn't looking' thing?

Misnomer

12-28-2007, 09:40 AM

I'm done with this thread. It was a quick OP, it did what I wanted it to do (allowed me to vent), and I got some good responses -- it even spawned two other threads, which I don't think has ever happened with one of my threads before. The presumptive, judgmental replies weren't completely unforseen, so I've been addressing them, but with this post I'm just starting to repeat myself and now I'm tired of it. So I won't be posting in this thread again. (And before you think "yeah, right, no one ever really walks away," I've done it before.)

I will do my best, but could use some support from the other kids of squalor. :( I'll pop in over there a little later, but probably won't be trying to explain my whole story. If just one sentence in the Pit can be attacked, I can't imagine how the vultures would react to attempts to explain something that really can't be explained unless you've experienced it. I respect any attempts you make to do so. :)

As for the OP, while I can understand what has (very likely) happened to cause your post, I think perhaps this would have been more suited to MPSIMS, as it is human nature to judge based on what is known.What, so, people only judge in the Pit and not in MPSIMS? Also, it might be human nature to judge, but only the arrogant or immature actually express those judgments -- especially when so little information was provided.

The only thing you made known was that you were repulsed and disgusted by your mother's living conditions. It is tough to accept that you could feel that way, and still do nothing.How/why would you possibly assume that I "do nothing" when you admit that all I made known where my thoughts on the living conditions? This is exactly the kind of ignorant assumption that so many others in this thread have made. I am allowed to simply express frustration with her living conditions, which have absolutely nothing to do with any attempts on my part to improve them.

Yes, this is the Pit where you don't have to play nice, but damn, Misnomer, take a breath."Take a breath?" I'm not even sure what that means. Am I not supposed to respond to posts in my thread?

You're quick to bounce on anyone who thinks your OP was a more than just a little vague.Damn straight, because calling that sentence vague is a stupid thing to say.

I've never known anyone who is a hoarder. How in the Sam Hell am I supposed to know what you mean?You really don't have to know about hoarding to know what I mean by cluttered, filthy, and roach-infested.

And how is asking you to give more details rude?When did I ever say that it was?

If I KNEW more, then maybe you'd get the response you were looking for?As I said upthread, this is not the Compulsory Participation Message Board. I was never looking for a response from you, Ruby, personally. If you don't understand or don't like the OP, just ignore it. Why is that such an impossible concept for some folks?

Do you also do the 'sneaky throwing away of the super-expired food when she isn't looking' thing?Totally! Ha!

Pazu

12-28-2007, 10:59 AM

Man, back in residency we used to love it when those idiots would come in. (Not surprisingly, they ended up in the hospital a lot.) Of course, we provided them with the same care we would provide anyone, but that didn't mean we couldn't go out of our way to make sure it was provided by every minority doctor, nurse, and tech we could round up, the bigger and meaner-looking the better.

One ER doc--a black guy who played college football--would stay late on his shift to see folks with white pride-type tattoos, just because he loved watching them try to keep them covered up. He would pointedly stare straight at the tattoo as much as he could, but he would be completely professional and courteous without saying a word about it.

The sad thing is that they probably don't learn a thing from it--once they're back home, it's probably all about "had to go to the hospital an' get sewed up by some damn nigger."

I have to give you a lot of credit for keeping your cool on that score, though, because those incidents made me very uncomfortable when I was a medical student. I remember one sweet old lady who came to clinic with some kind of rash on both her legs, who first explained that it started when some construction folks were doing sandblasting on her street, and then leaned forward conspiratorially and whispered "It was the Jews. They did it to me." :dubious:

One incident did make me laugh out loud, though--I was on ER call with the surgery team up in one of the north Chicago suburbs, and they brought in some lady who'd fallen down (drunk) on the front steps of her favorite bar. So the intern, the resident and I all go in to see what we need to do for her, and she looks at us blearily and starts screaming, "Bring me an American doctor! Aren't there any American doctors here? I want a goddamn American doctor!"

And I did a quick double-take and started laughing, because the team was me (Taiwanese-American), the (Chinese-American) intern, and the (Indian-American) resident. :D

sishoch

12-28-2007, 11:09 AM

My wife and I have been married for a year and a half and she is pregnant with our first child. The pregnancy has been hard on her, constant nausea, general exhaustion, etc which has been further complicated by the pug puppy she is bottle-feeding from day one. The puppy has a cleft palate and can't nurse off its mother.

Christmas morning, she is mixing the formula when the puppy is able to pull itself out of the bassinet and falls to the floor on its head. A few minutes of crying and it seemed ok.

Later in the afternoon (after a bout of nausea), she was feeding it balls of canned food. The puppy got a bit of food wedged in the cleft and was getting upset. I called my brother the vet and got instructions on how to clear the cleft with a water pik. I explained it to my wife as she was dissolving into tears, thinking the puppy was aspirating the food and would certainly die of pneumonia. She couldn't bring herself to do the deed, so she had to hold the puppy upside down while I did pried open his little mouth and did my best to clean out the cleft. We had to do it twice and then watch his sneeze the water out his nose. We put him on antibiotics and threw away the canned food. My wife developed a migraine that stayed with her for two days, with constant nausea and heartburn.

Now, the puppy is fine, got his first shot yesterday and just as feisty as ever. My wife is much better and sleeping in this morning. I'm just glad its all over.