Disappearing Car Door Option. Is This a Hoax?

[Tuckerfan]

http:// www. disappearing-car-door .com/ [EDIT: LINK CONTAINS VIRUS] Website with autoplaying video here.[/url] It's a neat idea, I'll give them that, and the video quality is such that the CGI-like nature of the images could be an artifact of the compression. I can't recall seeing anything like this before on a concept car (switchblade doors, gullwing doors, suicide doors and sliding doors, yes), so this is pretty unique. I have to say that if it's a hoax, I hope major carmakers pick up on the idea, because it looks to me that it would make it very easy for people with limited mobility to get in and out of the car.

[Baldwin]

Looks real to me, but I'll have to spend more time on the site. I'd like to see a detailed diagram of the door structure and how it's stored when open.

Certainly a nice idea; one drawback for people with small children might be that a single door covers the front and back seats, so when the door lowers, all the seats are open for egress.

ETA: when you hear soft chamber music throughout a car advertisement, you can just add five thousand dollars to whatever figure you had in your head.

[Patty O'Furniture]

That would be a huge amount of rework for the undercarriage and door frame. And quite a few sportscars already sit very very low to the ground. The door looks like it's flexible as it rolls around the curve from side to bottom - sort of like a rolltop desk. But I don't see how that's possible with the window glass tucked doen inside the door. It might involve throwing away the original door and creating a whole new one out of special flexible material.

I wonder what's involved in manually opening the door if the power fails (as in a dead battery or accident). Quite a bit of hand cranking, I would bet.

[Patty O'Furniture]

OK here's my analysis of the door going from open to closed (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1473/5747827/15966180/294958070.jpg), as seen from the front of the car. It really cuts deep into the passenger compartment while it's moving. That was the only way I could get the door from one position to the other without the top swinging way out or the bottom scraping the ground.

[redman]

This screams hoax to me, a la Bonsai Kitten.

I get no Jatech LLC hits on google or in the US Patent search.

[R. P. McMurphy]

It has a lot of possibilities and some definite advantages. The big disadvantage I see is the problem with inclement weather. In the time that the door opens and closes much of the interior could be soaked or ruined.

[KneadToKnow]

OK here's my analysis of the door going from open to closed (http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1473/5747827/15966180/294958070.jpg), as seen from the front of the car. It really cuts deep into the passenger compartment while it's moving. That was the only way I could get the door from one position to the other without the top swinging way out or the bottom scraping the ground.
It swings out further than that, Patty. In the shot of the two women getting into their side-by-side cars, you can clearly see the door extends a little ways beyond the edge of the car as it closes.

Edit: Nice work, though!

[redman]

I retract my previous post.

Here's a good site with additional information about this concept car from 1993.
http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/07/21/disappearing-car-door/

[jasonh300]

Anyone remember the old GM station wagons in the 70s that had a tailgate that worked like this? The Vista Cruiser maybe?

[scr4]

I get no Jatech LLC hits on google or in the US Patent search.
Apparently they've changed the company name from Joalto Design, Inc. Here (http://www.google.com/patents?id=gYclAAAAEBAJ&dq=5524960) is the patent.

[Bayard]

This looks cool. Edmunds (http://blogs.edmunds.com/?14@@.eea0fd1/0) makes mention of it in a blog, and.....

I had a 7-point post outlining why I thought they'd been hoaxed. On preview, I see Tsar Chasm found verfication. I am not as smart as I'd thought.

[thirdname]

I didn't think it was a hoax so much as a car that could never be put into production. Without a B-pillar, it would be a deathtrap in a side impact.

[Tuckerfan]

I didn't think it was a hoax so much as a car that could never be put into production. Without a B-pillar, it would be a deathtrap in a side impact.Shouldn't be hard to integrate one into the design (retrofitting is probably out of the question, however), after all, the "side impact beams" in cars are basically 2 inch dia. conduit.

[Rick]

I can think of a number of reasons that could be potential deal killers. In no particular order:

As has been mentioned heavy rain.
No B pillar would make it very hard to pass side impact standards. Side impact requirements go beyond just a bar in the door, it requires reinforcement in the B pillar which this car does not have.
Lowered head room, or decreased ground clearance. If you don't make the car taller, (less aerodynamic) you have to do one or the other. That door has to go somewhere. They said in the video something about no decreased ground clearance, so that would mean less head room, or a taller car.
How do you get into the car to open the hood to jump start it with a dead battery?
How do you replace the door seals when you have a wind leak?
For that matter, how do you seal the sumbitch against wind and water leaks?
How do you get out of the car after an accident when there is no battery power left?
How do you get out of the car is there is a hit on the side anywhere between the wheels? A small hit right in front of the left rear wheel, and the driver is trapped.
Cost. This bad boy has to cost more than a traditional door.

Other than that it looks way cool.
I am not holding my breath that it will be on any new cars in the foreseeable future.

[ZenBeam]

Lowered head room, or decreased ground clearance. If you don't make the car taller, (less aerodynamic) you have to do one or the other. That door has to go somewhere. They said in the video something about no decreased ground clearance, so that would mean less head room, or a taller car.The decreased ground clearance could be only while the door is open, not while driving. Just don't park over a large rock.
How do you get into the car to open the hood to jump start it with a dead battery?Maybe the other side has normal doors?

[Rick]

The decreased ground clearance could be only while the door is open, not while driving. Just don't park over a large rock.Customer stops over a speed bump to pick up a passenger. SCRAPE! Who pays to paint the door?
Maybe the other side has normal doors?In the video both sides of the car had the same doors.

[panache45]

How tamper-proof is it? Looks to be too easy to break into. And is there room in it for side airbags?

[AskNott]

How tamper-proof is it? Looks to be too easy to break into. And is there room in it for side airbags?
Don't side airbags usually drop down from the roof?

[KneadToKnow]

Don't side airbags usually drop down from the roof?
Mine come out from the b-pillar if I understand my user manual correctly.

[Dog80]

BMW did something similar years ago with the Z1: http://www.ssip.net/manufacturers/bmw/model/bmw-z1/

[Rick]

Don't side airbags usually drop down from the roof?
Side impact bags (for your chest) usually mount in the seat or door. Side curtains (for your head) mount either in the door, or roof of the car.

[Pasta]

Customer stops over a speed bump to pick up a passenger. SCRAPE! Who pays to paint the door?
The patent drawings suggest that the door goes into an enclosed compartment, so that isn't a worry. (But how long before that compartment gets dented so badly that the door won't go down anymore?)

[KneadToKnow]

(But how long before that compartment gets dented so badly that the door won't go down anymore?)
Popular culture has it that it will stop going down right after the wedding.

[A.R. Cane]

Then Kaiser Darrin Roadster had the doors sliding into the front fenders: http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Siblings/Kaiser.html

[Tuckerfan]

Then Kaiser Darrin Roadster had the doors sliding into the front fenders: http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Siblings/Kaiser.html
Yeah, but those were manually operated, and really clunky in practice.

[Patty O'Furniture]

Then Kaiser Darrin Roadster had the doors sliding into the front fenders: http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Siblings/Kaiser.html

Soooooey!

[Hail Ants]

Another huge reason you won't see this anytime soon is it would increase your collision insurance rates. A lot. Because if you have a minor fender-bender, or even so much as a light bump in the side, it will literally cost ten times as much to fix. That roll-down/up GM wagon someone mentioned suffered from this. Even a light rear-ending and the car was a write-off, too expensive to be worth fixing.

Big aftermarket modifications are rarely worth the expense, and they don't get much bigger than this! Today, even adding something like a power sunroof costs way too much to be practical.

[GuanoLad]

So what are the real benefits that can't be addressed by other better ideas? I can't really see anything compelling.

[AskNott]

... That roll-down/up GM wagon someone mentioned suffered from this. Even a light rear-ending and the car was a write-off, too expensive to be worth fixing. ...
Alas, it's true. Some even died without any crash damage. One day, the gate would dive down into its hole, never to be seen again. An otherwise very presentable station wagon, suddenly bound for the scrapyard. :eek:

At first, it would seem like a dream for some creative bodywork wrangler. Zip off most of the roof, a little of this, a little of that, and zam, you have a one-of-a-kind El Camino. However, the full-size GM "estate wagons" of those years looked absurd. If you imagine one without most of the roof and glass, even a finely crafted El Camino would draw giggles, not admiration. :p

Surely, at least one exists somewhere. If you can find a picture somewhere, I'd like to see it.

[Tuckerfan]

Alas, it's true. Some even died without any crash damage. One day, the gate would dive down into its hole, never to be seen again. An otherwise very presentable station wagon, suddenly bound for the scrapyard. :eek:

At first, it would seem like a dream for some creative bodywork wrangler. Zip off most of the roof, a little of this, a little of that, and zam, you have a one-of-a-kind El Camino. However, the full-size GM "estate wagons" of those years looked absurd. If you imagine one without most of the roof and glass, even a finely crafted El Camino would draw giggles, not admiration. :p

Surely, at least one exists somewhere. If you can find a picture somewhere, I'd like to see it.
Studebaker built stationwagons with a retractable roof over the cargo area. (http://home.no.net/ayla/Studebaker/images/1963%20Studebaker%20Wagonaire.jpg)

[MIGHTYTHOR]

OK to answer all your questions. I have been a consultant for the marketing of this and have personally seen the vehicle (of which there are 4) operate.
To dispel some assumptions;
1 This door is stronger, lighter, and safer than the original equipment and this has been proven by crash tests performed some years ago.
2. This door has an emergency release and egress is easier especially after an accident. Again this has been tested and proven
3. If the emergency release is activated the door is counterbalanced so that you may open it with one finger pushing down.
4. Furthermore the entire door may be pushed out after the emergency release has been activated

To summarize this concept gives the user a stronger, safer, lighter door that gives incredibly easy egress and ingress to the vehicle

[Patty O'Furniture]

Two and a half years later and four have been sold? That's what I call a niche market.

[MIGHTYTHOR]

I realized there were additional questions brought up and need to add some more information;
5. The door is fully contained in a box and does not subtract from ground clearance. Nor does it detract from interior clearance since the seats do not need to be raised.
6. The same opening is provided when you open a regular car door so in terms of inclement weather there is no true difference except you dont have to worry about the wind blowing your door open or a passing car removing it!
7. If the door is dented only the exterior skin would have to be replaced which would not be huge expense. And, to reiterate, safety officials have clearly stated that access to the passengers would be much easier in a crash.
8. As for tampering this door forms a solid seal with the roof and offers more security since the latching mechanism is not available to the thief.
9. In terms of cost once in full production you would look at about 3 times the cost of your current doors at production line costs and 5 times aftermarket. Figure it about par with a high end option package.
10. I have already stated several obvious benefits and so does the video but there is another. This door is a godsend for those who are handicapped or of limited mobility.
11 Lastly this door is just plain cool and as you can tell I love it!!

[MIGHTYTHOR]

Two and a half years later and four have been sold? That's what I call a niche market.

It is not into production and none have been sold. Unlike people who rush things into production without thought this product will be fully vetted and tested before release
Furthermore, due to the sheer scale of the demand a specific pattern for marketing will be followed of which I may not discuss at this time

[Quercus]

Let's see:

Video ad shot on a rented 'fancy estate' with models trying just a little too hard to project 'class' and wealth;
When discussed on a message board, someone immediately joins the message board just to reveal that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;
Said anonymous 'consultant' makes vague excuses for not selling any actual product (in 2 1/2 years!) by mentioning a super marketing plan which of course is too secret to reveal anything about;
Product web site is funded by selling google ads;


I'm not saying the technology is impossible, or even that it doesn't exist, but I wouldn't place a whole lot of bets on it ever being commercially successful.

[postcards]

When discussed on a message board, someone immediately joins the message board just to reveal that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;


Ahem. Joined the thread two and a half years later.


Zombie reported.

[md2000]

Nah, probably found the reference on Google...

I just see it as others do - a neat idea, but probably not worth the cost and hassle. The first deformity, lightweight or not, and the track stops working. I've seen car doors roped close at times; something that is basically not able to close is not a great idea. I have images of someone drilling a hole so they lift the door up then stick a peg through it into the frame to keep it up once the motor and such fail. Ya, if it's stuck under there, what do you reef on to pull it up? From inside the car?

The modification seems to involve also modifying the body to make it more "rounded" so the door does appear to rotate into the car underbody.

In a northern climate, how long before the rust and ice buildup make this stop working. Until I got an insulated garage, icing causing my windows to not roll down was a common winter occurence.

[engineer_comp_geek]

5. The door is fully contained in a box and does not subtract from ground clearance. Nor does it detract from interior clearance since the seats do not need to be raised.

You are going to have to explain this one.

You say you made the floor thicker, by adding a box that the door fits into. And yet, you also seem to be saying that you did not raise the top of the floor (which would raise the seats) and you did not lower the bottom of the floor (which would affect the ground clearance.

So how do you make the floor bigger without making it bigger?

[Quercus]

Let's see:

When discussed on a message board, someone immediately joins the message board just to reveal that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;

Ahem. Joined the thread two and a half years later.
Zombie reported.
'Doh! Nothing like looking closely and skeptically at almost all the evidence.

Though doesn't really change the conclusion to change that bullet point to
Two-year-old (and long dead) thread on discussion board questioning the product is revived and commented on by someone who joins the message board just for this purpose, revealing that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;
My bet would be that the company supposedly developing the technology currently has a very special offer to invest in this sure-fire get-rich scheme.

[MIGHTYTHOR]

Let's see:

Video ad shot on a rented 'fancy estate' with models trying just a little too hard to project 'class' and wealth;
When discussed on a message board, someone immediately joins the message board just to reveal that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;
Said anonymous 'consultant' makes vague excuses for not selling any actual product (in 2 1/2 years!) by mentioning a super marketing plan which of course is too secret to reveal anything about;
Product web site is funded by selling google ads;


I'm not saying the technology is impossible, or even that it doesn't exist, but I wouldn't place a whole lot of bets on it ever being commercially successful.
1. Gee when I represent my product I should use the poor ugly and homeless for more appeal, correct?
2. I found this message board checking links and had to join in order to dispel myths and answer questions.
3. Nothing vague about stating the size of the market and appeal. There are thousands of emails from across the globe inquiring when they may see this technology
4. Google ads are everywhere lol

Looks like you struck out completely oh skeptical one. Care to try again?

[MIGHTYTHOR]

You are going to have to explain this one.

You say you made the floor thicker, by adding a box that the door fits into. And yet, you also seem to be saying that you did not raise the top of the floor (which would raise the seats) and you did not lower the bottom of the floor (which would affect the ground clearance.

So how do you make the floor bigger without making it bigger?

There is space underneath your driver and passenger seats. You know the place where you throw your scraper and where you always seem to have Mc donalds wrappers? I said the seats would not need to be raised

[MIGHTYTHOR]

'Doh! Nothing like looking closely and skeptically at almost all the evidence.

Though doesn't really change the conclusion to change that bullet point to
Two-year-old (and long dead) thread on discussion board questioning the product is revived and commented on by someone who joins the message board just for this purpose, revealing that they have supposedly "been a consultant for the marketing of this" and the technology really works!1!!1 ;
My bet would be that the company supposedly developing the technology currently has a very special offer to invest in this sure-fire get-rich scheme.

Sorry, wrong again, this venture will be funded privately. Many people have inquired as to investing however.
I find it sad merely showing a new and good concept engenders such a negative response by some naysayers. Let us move back to the original concept.
1 This door is a new and better idea. Appreciate it as such
2 You are lucky I found this thread on the net after all these misconceptions have been floating on this page for 2 1/2 years. Otherwise you would still be ignorant of the facts. Thank you for your interest though

[engineer_comp_geek]

There is space underneath your driver and passenger seats. You know the place where you throw your scraper and where you always seem to have Mc donalds wrappers? I said the seats would not need to be raised

On my cars, that space may be empty in the middle, but on either side of that empty space are the seat's mounting rails. Take out those mounting rails and the seat can't be adjusted back and forth. You install modified seats as well?

[enipla]

On my cars, that space may be empty in the middle, but on either side of that empty space are the seat's mounting rails. Take out those mounting rails and the seat can't be adjusted back and forth. You install modified seats as well?This was my question too. And, in my car I have some sort of computer/control module down there. The space is used.

And what about the foot well? Is that to be raised up 6 inches?

[MIGHTYTHOR]

On my cars, that space may be empty in the middle, but on either side of that empty space are the seat's mounting rails. Take out those mounting rails and the seat can't be adjusted back and forth. You install modified seats as well?

Yes you are correct. This modification entails substantial refit and remake. But sitting inside the car I was not aware of any less legroom or headroom. Furthermore, due to the setup the door will not be stuck in a down position due to deformation as previous threads have suggested. I admit all the neat engineering solutions are not shown in the website but there has been a lot of problems overcome from the original prototype

One last thing, there is still a bit more room underneath the floor too and the containment box is 6"

[BubbaDog]

Hey everybody - MIGHTYHOR's website will be more than happy to try and load some malware on your computer if you try to open the "company" tab of the web page.

That really puts a big plus sign on your credibility list, doesn't it MT?

[MIGHTYTHOR]

Hey everybody - MIGHTYHOR's website will be more than happy to try and load some malware on your computer if you try to open the "company" tab of the web page.

That really puts a big plus sign on your credibility list, doesn't it MT?

1 It is not my website
2 Thank you for notifying me regarding malware. I will notify the webmaster

[MIGHTYTHOR]

Hey everybody - MIGHTYHOR's website will be more than happy to try and load some malware on your computer if you try to open the "company" tab of the web page.

That really puts a big plus sign on your credibility list, doesn't it MT?

A simple observation. Attempting to impugn my credibility in no way detracts from the fact that the technology is real. Attack the messenger , right?

[zwede]

I'm just not seeing the easy ingress/egress. The door sill is VERY wide so the model has to rotate on her butt to get her legs out. Maybe doable in a luxury car but anything remotely sporty will have deep buckets and make it very uncomfortable. I remember the C4 Corvettes had a wider-than-usual sill (not nearly as wide as this one) and it made it quite annoying to get in and out.

[BubbaDog]

1 It is not my website
2 Thank you for notifying me regarding malware. I will notify the webmaster

Right. It is your customer's website. You represent a customer whose website attempts to load malware onto computers.

[BubbaDog]

A simple observation. Attempting to impugn my credibility in no way detracts from the fact that the technology is real. Attack the messenger , right?

Actually it was my simple observation that your customer's website attempted to attack me.

Like it or not your credibility is affected by the fact that your customer has made very little progress in two years and their website attacks visitors.

Throw in the fact that you're the guy who opened the zombie thread which invites people to the malware site and your credibility as well as any semblance of integrity that you may have goes straight into the shitter.

[samclem]

Old thread should not be reopened. If you have something of value to offer, start a new thread.

samclem Moderator, General Questions