I used to be an Engineer

[Tully Mars]

Here I sit, at 9:00 PM with two big 20 inch flat panels on my desk. I have Power Point on one screen and MS Project on the other.

What happened? I used to be a real engineer. (sob)

Somebody please just put me out of my misery. Just slip up behind me and mercifully administer the bullet.

[Jman]

Sorry. What happened? Still a real engineer here. (Though, I of course sit in front of flat panels all day too...they're just running AutoCAD.)

[Tully Mars]

Sorry. What happened? Still a real engineer here. (Though, I of course sit in front of flat panels all day too...they're just running AutoCAD.)
It's the Peter Principle, I think. I was good at what I used to do and I enjoyed it. They keep handing me more management tasks until I don't get to do what I enjoy anymore. Maybe I should just screw up this presentation really, really bad by ... telling the truth, maybe?

[El_Kabong]

I'm not a real engineer. I love doing Powerpointy stuff. Pay me a reasonable fee and I'll do it for you.

[Tully Mars]

I'm not a real engineer. I love doing Powerpointy stuff. Pay me a reasonable fee and I'll do it for you.
'Tis done. I'm going home.

Thanks for the offer, though.

[Jman]

I do feel your pain, though. I went to college for engineering, then spent 5 years as an officer in the Army, doing more and more management than I could ever imagine (500 soldiers under my command at one point), and then after leaving went back to engineering, so I got to dump the responsibility and just be a design grunt, which is great. Luckily, I work for a very small company, so even as I progress, my management duties will consist far more of reviewing designs and training than doing powerpoint and other paperwork.

I know the boredom that you're experiencing now, though. I don't know how many reports I've written or how many presentations I've had to prepare. Ugh. Our weekly meetings when I was a battalion operations officer were such a pain...2 hours of death by powerpoint, every week, and guess who got to prepare that slideshow?

[robardin]

I was good at what I used to do and I enjoyed it. They keep handing me more management tasks until I don't get to do what I enjoy anymore.
I never understood this, until it started happening to me. The problem is, they also keep throwing more money at me, and all the while, I'm becoming enmeshed in my company's institutional history and culture (both technical and managerial). The net effect is I'm now more valuable to this firm than I would be to another one if I left. My replacement cost here would be high, while my "value added" as a swap-in elsewhere would not obviously be equivalent to my present compensation, unless I took some kind of pay cut, demotion or a flat year or two to learn the ropes.

It feels good to feel more important, in that I am definitely in a role with greater visibility, and am still involved in the technical design of the system in getting to dictate what should happen and why, not just how and when. And I'm not actually unhappy about my situation (or "career arc" as they call it). But it is less "fun".

[Tully Mars]

I never understood this, until it started happening to me. The problem is, they also keep throwing more money at me, ... The net effect is I'm now more valuable to this firm than I would be to another one if I left.
That's the catch, isn't it? That's it in a nutshell. It doesn't help that I'm over-specialized.

I swore I would never let it happen happen to me, but I found myself in a situation where I had to accept the responsibility to keep the project alive.

It goes to prove my dad's old maxim, "Don't ever say you won't do something. You'll end up doing it every time."

[Triskadecamus]

One corollary to the Peter Principle is that you must choose to follow idiots without correcting them, or accept authority for supervising idiots. The later takes more time, the former has personal consequences. Both choices, of course piss off the idiots.

Tris

[TroubleAgain]

I never understood this, until it started happening to me. The problem is, they also keep throwing more money at me, and all the while, I'm becoming enmeshed in my company's institutional history and culture (both technical and managerial). The net effect is I'm now more valuable to this firm than I would be to another one if I left. My replacement cost here would be high, while my "value added" as a swap-in elsewhere would not obviously be equivalent to my present compensation, unless I took some kind of pay cut, demotion or a flat year or two to learn the ropes.

It feels good to feel more important, in that I am definitely in a role with greater visibility, and am still involved in the technical design of the system in getting to dictate what should happen and why, not just how and when. And I'm not actually unhappy about my situation (or "career arc" as they call it). But it is less "fun".

Ah. Yes. At my company, we call this "The Golden Handcuff."

[Dragwyr]

It could be worse.

I have a friend who graduated with a degree in Computer Engineering and is now working at a very good company. He has moved up a few positions from what he did initially and doesn't do so much programming as he used to, but it is a great job.

Two weeks ago he told me he was going to quit his job this spring to become a "Christian Educator" at the fundie church he and his family go to. He said he that since his job had moved him away from computer engineering, he felt this was his calling. He even admitted that it would be a substantial cut in his earnings, his family would have to move into a much smaller house closer to the church, and that finances would be tight, but he thinks they should be able to manage it.

I think he is nuts!

So remember... it could be worse.

[Borborygmi]

Ha, ha, ha, ha haaa! You guys all must be OLD! Ha, ha, ha, ha haaa!

Yeah, it's all happening to me, too. robardin's post says it all. At least I'm mostly happy where I am. And you guys think YOUR value would go down elsewhere? I don't even have a college degree to bring to another company's table...

[ems]

Me to.

I now have close to 180 people to manage as well as revenue targets to met and budgets to control and at this time of year appraisals to complete.

I am now very definitely a 'Manager' it even says so in my job title.

And I am not old either.

My career path echos what robardin said

[Sunspace]

The OP could always become an electricity sanitizer (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450877). I understand that inferior brands of electricity are quite the hazard these days.

[Cowgirl Jules]

You're still an engineer inside, Tully dear. Go home and build something.

[robardin]

Here I sit, at 9:00 PM with two big 20 inch flat panels on my desk. I have Power Point on one screen and MS Project on the other.
So, which panel is the SDMB on, ya slacker? :D

[Jeep's Phoenix]

There's a lady at my workplace who's always telling me how sad it is that I'm not designing anything yet. WTF?? I'm happy with the [mechanical] engineering work I do now -- researching, testing, handwritten calculations, and the occasional report. The designers here are basically managers -- why would I be in that position with less than a year's experience? And we don't do true product design here anyway (very long story).

Tully, go get a big Lego set. That always makes me feel like a "real" engineer. :D

[BaneSidhe]

Tully, what type of engineer are you?

[Tully Mars]

Tully, what type of engineer are you?
My title says Software Engineer.

I just got out a the sixth meeting in as many days to discuss what we're doing to do to recover schedule. I'm about ready to rudely offer the suggestion, "Stop have these meetings."

[Tastes of Chocolate]

I just got out a the sixth meeting in as many days to discuss what we're doing to do to recover schedule. I'm about ready to rudely offer the suggestion, "Stop have these meetings."

Preach it. I always dread quarter ends. As that magical date approaches the email and reports fly, each accompanied by a plea to "stay focused" and help the company reach it's sales goals. Let's see, if I didn't spend all my time wading through those reports, I might have time to, umm, I don't know, maybe work?

[zoid]

I keep in touch with a few folks I graduated with. 15 years after getting engineering degrees, none of us is doing any engineering. No, I'm afraid it's management for the lot of you.

[Tully Mars]

I keep in touch with a few folks I graduated with. 15 years after getting engineering degrees, none of us is doing any engineering. No, I'm afraid it's management for the lot of you.
No! No! No, I say. I will not go down without a fight. I will become a lab rat again. Someway, somehow.

[Pleonast]

My company has the great policy of "easing" technical staff into management positions. My current tasking is about 80% science/engineering and 20% management of two small programs. The best part: as long as I do only an "adequate" job at management and do "excellent" technical work, I can get steady payraises while discouraging additional management tasking. It's the best of all worlds: more money and an enjoyable job.

[enipla]

Showed a quick mock up of an app my boss requested to help some interdepartmental staff to report problems. The staff loves it. My boss, whom will not use it found it confusing.

He was completely engrossed with little tiny shit like labels and colors without looking at the functionality.

Me: This allows anyone to track their issue buy name, date, issueID, other related DB issue number, whether or not the issue has been resolved and where the issue happened and sort them. They can look at all issues or any of the above combinations.

Boss: What does ‘Resolved’ mean? That’s confusing. And ‘Search for a Record’ is confusing too.

I suggested that we should get the staffs opinion, and he said it did not matter since he was the one signing off on it.

[GargoyleWB]

I feel for you...I'm an engineer and I put more hours into booking meeting rooms in Outlook for budget status reviews than I do actually designing anything.

If only PowerPoint could export in CAD formats, I'd just do all of my designs there...(with added whoosh and fade effects on the dimensions and data, the fab shop would love that) :)

[Jeep's Phoenix]

If only PowerPoint could export in CAD formats, I'd just do all of my designs there...(with added whoosh and fade effects on the dimensions and data, the fab shop would love that) :)
Do you have access to SolidWorks? The last time I used it ('06), they had added lots of fun animation options.

[FairyChatMom]

I haven't been able to do honest-to-goodness design work since 1997. I didn't become a manager, but I did move into a more paperwork-and-powerpoint type job. I miss the creativity of design, but I am making a metric buttload of money at what I'm doing, plus I can retire in 2 years, so what the heck...

I have only vague memories of building 3-D models of tooling and fixtures used to overhaul aircraft and engines. Those were the good old days.

[enipla]

I've got a simple .doc called CYA. I'm glad I saw this thread because I have a few things to put into it again.

[NinetyWt]

I keep in touch with a few folks I graduated with. 15 years after getting engineering degrees, none of us is doing any engineering. No, I'm afraid it's management for the lot of you.
Ha! I'm still in the game (20 years on). Of course, I also do all of the bookkeeping, marketing, phone-answering, word processing, etc. around here. ;)

[Rysto]

Well, it ain't gonna happen to me

[trupa]

First I was a tech support engineer, helping customers deal with bugs and hastily put together features in our product.

Then I became a product engineer, helping product management figure out technical problems with our suppliers.

Then I became a product manager (and got an MBA) so I could make sure the product had the right features and not the stupidities I saw in support.

Then we stopped making our own product, and just bought our competitors and silk screened our logo on it. Engineering work became hours of conference calls with licensing lawyers. Some mornings I considered sticking needles in my eyeballs to avoid going to work. :(

Then I quit, and became a stay at home dad. Now I read books on trains and airplanes with my 5 year old son. Once a month or so, we go to the airport and watch planes land and take off at the end of the runway. Yesterday, he asked me about fixed vs retractable landing gears, and has a pretty decent grasp of lift, thrust and drag. This last summer I rebuilt and spray painted our yard fence, even though the Home Depot guys said that exterior acrylic latex would never work through a sprayer.

This is the best damned engineering job I ever had...:)

[MonaLizaT]

I have always loved technical writing so at one of my early jobs I became the report guru. Consequently, I missed out on learning some important stuff. Nowadays, I'm mostly running traffic models with some occasional signal design. I'm trying to do more of the technical stuff. I had a chance last year to be the traffic engineer for the City but I knew what that would mean - nothing but management and phone calls from residents wanting speed humps.

[NinetyWt]

I had a chance last year to be the traffic engineer for the City but I knew what that would mean - nothing but management and phone calls from residents wanting speed humps.
If the City's not too large, you might be able to work a little design in there. I worked for our City for 4 years, and managed to design a few things. It's good experience, if you don't mind the low pay and being treated poorly by the Powers that Be.

[MonaLizaT]

If the City's not too large, you might be able to work a little design in there. I worked for our City for 4 years, and managed to design a few things. It's good experience, if you don't mind the low pay and being treated poorly by the Powers that Be.

Nah - a friend left the position so he could DO some design. We're a large city (850,000+) and, when they couldn't find anyone willing to put up with the grief (and 19 micromanaging city council members), they just eliminated the position. :smack:

[NinetyWt]

they just eliminated the position. :eek:
Remind me never to attempt to drive through there!!

[Tully Mars]

Nah - a friend left the position so he could DO some design. We're a large city (850,000+) and, when they couldn't find anyone willing to put up with the grief (and 19 micromanaging city council members), they just eliminated the position. :smack:
Which position, traffic engineer or city council. I kid, but you know ....

[Ruffian]

I'm not in engineering, but TullyMars (and others), this is precisely why I will not go into education administration. I love teaching, and hate all of the paperwork. I love everything that happens in the classroom, and administration is everything out of the classroom. No freakin' thanks.

I have been encouraged on many occasions to get my administrative credential, told how good I'd be at it, etc...but no freakin' thanks.

I hope you can get your lab rat status back soon, Tully.

[dgrdfd]

I am a software engineer, and I never really got started doing design :( I only started a year ago, but somehow I manage to end up writing documentation or testing or in Excel all day long. Every once in awhile things get exciting and I can do maintenance work. Yeah, it sucks, but they are paying for my masters degree (plus $10k once I graduate) so things can be reevaluated once I complete it.

Is this typical for new hires in your companies?

[Una Persson]

How many people in here who say they're an "engineer" actually are a licensed P.E.? I'd be interested in seeing the connection between those who are P.E.'s and those who don't in terms of how much engineering they do.

[dgrdfd]

I think I am legally an "Engineering Intern." I have passed the fundamentals of engineering exam, but have not pursued anything else terms of actually getting a P.E. license.

[MonaLizaT]

How many people in here who say they're an "engineer" actually are a licensed P.E.? I'd be interested in seeing the connection between those who are P.E.'s and those who don't in terms of how much engineering they do.

P.E. here.

[Una Persson]

I guess I should have said how much engineering I do...P.E. here of course.

I unfortunately do NO design work at all, and have not for...well...nearly 15 years. I do detailed analysis for consulting work, which could count, but nothing I've ever had to legally put my stamp on. My work breaks down like this, roughly (this last year):


Consulting analysis: 30%
Conceptual consulting "idea girl" or "think tank" stuff: 20%
Project management: 10%
Business development/sales: 10%
Teaching (including university): 10%
Traveling: 5%
Coding: 5% (used to be about 75%...)
Miscellaneous bullshit (mandatory business "strategy" meetings, sitting on conference calls where I'm not needed, fixing the laser printer, miscellaneous R&D): 10%

[MonaLizaT]

I do detailed analysis for consulting work, which could count, but nothing I've ever had to legally put my stamp on.
Ah yes - I still get a stomach flutter when I sign and seal those final plans.

[NinetyWt]

I keep my stamp and ink pad in my briefcase - I've used the stamp a lot more since FEMA submittals began requiring them. I'm over the "stomach flutter" by now, Mona. ;)

Una, remember those old threads which waged on and on about "who's an engineer and who ain't"? I was reminded of that by this thread. (No, I am NOT interested in starting that war up again). I think I'll admit that computer programming can be considered a form of engineering.

[MonaLizaT]

I keep my stamp and ink pad in my briefcase - I've used the stamp a lot more since FEMA submittals began requiring them.

We have to use an embossed seal in Florida. I always feel sorry for the highway design engineers who have to sign and seal umpteen copies of a 500 sheet plan set. Most of them I know just sign and date and make some kid straight out of college emboss everything. :p

[NinetyWt]

I don't remember when Mississippi changed away from requiring the embossed seal, but I'm glad they did. As per the 500-sheet sets: I well remember watching a draftsman stamping sheet after sheet of plans, and the P.E. coming by later to sign them all. (I'm old enough to remember pen-and-ink drafting, on a drafting table.) A recent trend is to have the stamp included in the CAD drawing - it plots right along with the rest of the sheet. This is frowned upon in certain circles, however. Another trend is to stamp only the cover sheet.

[Tully Mars]

I guess I should have said how much engineering I do...P.E. here of course.

I unfortunately do NO design work at all, and have not for...well...nearly 15 years. I do detailed analysis for consulting work, which could count, but nothing I've ever had to legally put my stamp on. My work breaks down like this, roughly (this last year):


Consulting analysis: 30%
Conceptual consulting "idea girl" or "think tank" stuff: 20%
Project management: 10%
Business development/sales: 10%
Teaching (including university): 10%
Traveling: 5%
Coding: 5% (used to be about 75%...)
Miscellaneous bullshit (mandatory business "strategy" meetings, sitting on conference calls where I'm not needed, fixing the laser printer, miscellaneous R&D): 10%
I guess, I'm not lost yet. I added up the numbers to see it they totalled 100%.

Non P.E. here. I think a P.E. license for software engineers is still a relatively new thing.

By the way, I'm actually doing some design today. Yippee! It's amazing what one can get away with around here on a Saturday.

[BaneSidhe]

My hubby has his PE in Chemical Engineering but he does more computer type stuff than actually what he went to college for. He writes programs, does analysis and so on but he seems to like it quite a bit.

[Una Persson]

Non P.E. here. I think a P.E. license for software engineers is still a relatively new thing.
Not to start up the aforementioned war, just curious - which States give out a P.E. for software engineering?

[Tully Mars]

Not to start up the aforementioned war, just curious - which States give out a P.E. for software engineering?
I don't have a cite, but about 7-8 years ago, Texas was in the process of defining licensing requirements. Memos and rumors went around about whether or not we would be required to get licenses. I never heard any more about it after the initial buzz.

[Rysto]

Not to start up the aforementioned war, just curious - which States give out a P.E. for software engineering?
The University of Waterloo here in Canada has a very new software engineering program(I believe that the first students graduate this spring). They're supposed to get a P.Eng.

[Jeep's Phoenix]

Non-P.E. here. My business card still says I'm a "mechanical engineer," for whatever that's worth.

[Tuckerfan]

I just want to say two things: 1.) Whomever invented PowerPoint should be kicked in the genitals with a spiked boot. 99% of the time, PPPs are Crimes Against Humanity. It takes 2 hours to create the things, 20 minutes to set up the gear to present them, and an hour to show them, when it could all be said in 5 minutes or less. This is increasing productivity, how? 2.) If any of the mechanical engineers so miss the creative aspects of their jobs that they'd be willing to do a little gratis work (with the understanding that if I ever make any cabbage off the final product, I'll be more than willing to share), feel free to drop me an email.

[Sophistry and Illusion]

This is one of the good things about being a college professor. 30 years from now, I'll be doing the same job I'm doing now, which is the job I love. (Of course, this is why some professors burn out--that's a long time to be doing the same thing.) I could see someone making some attempts to bump me into administration--I was department chair at my last university--but I plan to resist such attempts.

[Tully Mars]

Sophistry and Illusion, from my distant memory, that is the kind of instructor that I appreciated as a student. It was obvious which ones loved their jobs. So, keep on resisting.