Is the word "Lynching" primarily a racial statement.

[Reloy3]

Reflecting on the recent Al Sharpton crusade discussed Here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9357465#post9357465), and watching it being covered on CNN a couple of days ago, I was surprised to learn that the Reverend Sharpton and others considered the word "lynching" to be primarily a racial thing. Whenever I hear the word "lynching", I generally think of an old american west context. Granted, being a Wyoming boy, born and raised, I was taught about the "Lynching of Cattle Kate" in school. I always thought lynching was a racially nuetral term for a hanging without judicial sanction.

So dopers, does "lynching" neccesarily conjure up racial issues for you? Why do you think so? Is there another term that doesn't imply racism?

Also, the automatic association between lynching and racism seems new to me. Of course, being a reasonably educated American, I know about the tragic lynching of African-Americans, primarily in the American South. But is the association between "lynching" = black victim is something I never really heard until recently. Am I just out of touch, or is it a post Jenna 6 issue?

[John Mace]

It's a racially neutral term for me, although it certainly can have racial overtones in certain contexts. I'm a an avid golf fan, and I'm pretty familiar with Kelly Tilghman, and I don't see a racial overtone in the context of her remark.

[WhyNot]

I was thinking the same thing reading through the Pit thread: isn't assuming that "lynching" means "black" actually rather racist in its own right?

For me, "lynching" connotes West, cowboys and rope and vigilante justice.

[pizzabrat]

No.
Are you genuinely asking this? Because you already know the definition of lynching (well, almost - it doesn't have to involve a hanging. Just any mob extra-judicial execution. (or maybe even the mob part isn't necessary)), and that it's completely race neutral, so what's the point of even entertaining any question of it?

[Captain Amazing]

Well, obviously, anyone can be lynched. But in this country, the majority of lynchings were carried out against blacks during the Jim Crow era, and it was done as a systematic method of terror. When the Dyer bill was introduced into Congress, it wasn't to protect the rights of suspected cattle rustlers.

[WhyNot]

No.
Are you genuinely asking this? Because you already know the definition of lynching (well, almost - it doesn't have to involve a hanging. Just any mob extra-judicial execution. (or maybe even the mob part isn't necessary)), and that it's completely race neutral, so what's the point of even entertaining any question of it?
Because it's an additional bit of evidence (as if we needed any) that Al Sharpton is a loon?

Or maybe because we feel like this woman shouldn't have been suspended for using a racial term when she didn't?

Or maybe because it's Friday, and there's been no Brittney news for 10 whole minutes and we need something else to post about.

Prob'ly some combination of the above.

[Marley23]

I was thinking the same thing reading through the Pit thread: isn't assuming that "lynching" means "black" actually rather racist in its own right?
No. I can't think of any way that's racist. Inacurrate, maybe, but I'd say that's it.

I do associate the word "lynching" with hangings in the Jim Crow South, but I wouldn't say the term itself is racial on its own. But context is everything, and if the anchor hadn't been talking about a black man (or rather a Cablinasian man), it wouldn't have been a big deal.

[Revtim]

People lately seem to think that hanging in general is a racial thing, as evidenced by the NAACP protesting Halloween decorations the past few years that have hanging monsters in them. (Google NAACP hanging Halloween for references)

IMHO, unless there's some other factor, neither a Halloween hanging decoration nor using the word 'lynch' is necessarily a racial reference, and it seems like a lot of people are vastly over-sensitive or really, really looking hard for racism.

[Bryan Ekers]

No-one reasonable would hesitate to apply it to the murder of Leo Frank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Frank) so, no, lynching is not a racial term.

[Odesio]

Whenever I hear the word "lynching", I generally think of an old american west context.


Thanks to a steady diet of westerns like Hang 'Em High, The Oxbow Incident , and commercials for Pace Picante sauce I also tend to associate lynching within the context of the mythic American Old West.

I most associate lynching with hanging but you don't have to hang someone to lynch them. Lynching requires a minimum of four people, one victim plus three perpetrators, is extra-legal, and it is a public event. There is no requirement that one hang another person to lynch them. For example in March of 1904 in Saint Charles, Arkansas over the corse of a week or so about 11-14 African Americans were lynched by whites with most of them being shot to death.



So dopers, does "lynching" neccesarily conjure up racial issues for you? Why do you think so? Is there another term that doesn't imply racism?


Between 1882-1930 there were 2,500 blacks lynched in the 10 southern states. The majority of those were done by whites though I know there were a few cases were blacks lynched other blacks. The vast majority of lynching was done by whites against blacks however. I don't know of any instance where blacks lynched whites in the United States but if someone else has some information I'd love to hear about it.

Marc

Sources: Under Sentence of Death: Lynching in the South

"Specters in the Past: The Saint Charles, Arkansas, Lynching of 1904 and the Limits of Historical Inquiry" The Journal of Southern History Volume LXV, No. 3 August 1999. by Vincent Vinikas

[Wee Bairn]

No and neither is shuck and jive, although the latter is *used* mainly by black.

[pizzabrat]

No and neither is shuck and jive, although the latter is *used* mainly by black.
::checks watch::
Is it 1972 again?

[Contrapuntal]

"Lynch Law" - An American Community Enigma. (http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1989/1/89.01.09.x.html)

[Geek Mecha]

It does conjure racial associations for me, just as "internment camp" makes me think of Japanese-Americans being shipped off and "deportment" makes me think of Latinos. I don't think I'm being racist in these associations; these are just the contexts in which I've heard these terms the most.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

For me, it is non-racial, generally speaking. Over the past year I've used the word probably hundreds of times, right here on these boards, playing Mafia games, so that is actually the first things that comes to mind currently.

Living in Georgia for 9 years, usage and intent were arguably seen through the regional/cultural filter that you start to wear while living in the south, so I may have answered differently while I was still living there.

I also commonly use the term lynchpin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linchpin) with no racial intent.

[Freudian Slit]

I don't think hanging in general is a racial thing. But when I hear "lynch," I do definitely think of racism. (Granted, I am reading "Against Our Will" which has a whole section on the tradition of lynching as a punishment for rape or perceived rape of white women, so right now I could be biased.)

[Contrapuntal]

I also commonly use the term lynchpin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linchpin) with no racial intent.The etymologies are entirely different, FWIW.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lynchpin

[Hampshire]

I wonder if Al Sharpton has boycotted this stuff (http://www.jdcollectorspage.com/images/limonade3.JPG) yet?

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

The etymologies are entirely different, FWIW.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lynchpin

Yeah, I just figured there might be some sort of Latin root involving physics or something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/linch

Or maybe I'm remembering some past conversation with someone who thought the original use was hanging/throwing someone off of a "linch".

[WhyNot]

I was thinking the same thing reading through the Pit thread: isn't assuming that "lynching" means "black" actually rather racist in its own right?No. I can't think of any way that's racist. Inacurrate, maybe, but I'd say that's it.
Because it assumes (in the mind of the offended) that only black people deserve to be lynched? Because only black people are bad enough/stupid enough/powerless enough to be lynched? Because only white people are evil enough to do lynchings?

It's tenuous, I admit, but I've been very sensitive to the hidden and assumptive racism inherent in accusations of racism (and other isms) ever since my stepmother deflated my supercilious outrage over perceived sexism when I was a kid. I was irritated that the model home she was showing had "obviously sexist rooms". Why, she asked, did I assume that the Blue Room with sports stuff was the "boy's room" and the Pink Room with ballerina stuff was the "girl's room"? The sexism - or colorism - was mine. It was revealed in my interpretation of what the interior decorator was trying to say.

[Marley23]

Because it assumes (in the mind of the offended) that only black people deserve to be lynched? Because only black people are bad enough/stupid enough/powerless enough to be lynched? Because only white people are evil enough to do lynchings?
That's just too tenuous for me. There's a historical basis for the belief that a lynching victim is probably black, and making that assumption (even though it is definitely an assumption) does not suggest that the assume-er hates black people. Or white people.

The sexism - or colorism - was mine. It was revealed in my interpretation of what the interior decorator was trying to say.
I wouldn't call that sexism. It's an assumption, but your reading of what someone else is saying - even if it's an incorrect assumption - is not the same as your own viewpoint. I parse your view of the house this way: "I believe most people associate the color blue and sports with boys, and the decorator is using those stereotypes." Recognizing a stereotype isn't sexist, and it seems pretty obvious that the room were set up the way they were for a reason. The decorator was using some traditional stereotypes to make the place appear familiar.

[Wee Bairn]

The "confusion" I think stems from the fact most lynchings that most anyone alive is aware of are lynchings of blacks in the US south. Only history buffs can tell you of Old West lynchings- that's why its thought of with a black connotation in the US.

[Contrapuntal]

Yeah, I just figured there might be some sort of Latin root involving physics or something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/linch

Or maybe I'm remembering some past conversation with someone who thought the original use was hanging/throwing someone off of a "linch".Check my link in post #13. There is a bit of uncertainty.

[Napier]

Never having looked "lynching" up, I associated racism against blacks in the American south with it.

I think I'd be surprised to hear an announcer say something about lynching a famous black person in the US. I did hear it on the news the other night, but after the topic was introduced, so there's no surprise anymore. I'm not confident attributing any bad intent to the sports announcer who used it, though.

In any case, as a practical usage issue, "lynch" is one of those words that I remember is racially charged or at the very least has a racial connotation, so I would try to choose another word without that connotation and would be embarrassed if I slipped and used it in public speaking. It seems wise to err on the side of caution, both in avoiding the words and in being openminded about the motivation when others use them.

[elfkin477]

The "confusion" I think stems from the fact most lynchings that most anyone alive is aware of are lynchings of blacks in the US south. Only history buffs can tell you of Old West lynchings- that's why its thought of with a black connotation in the US. Does this still happen with any frequency? I've never heard of it on the news, so my ideas of "lynching" are entirely from the wild west and black & white photos of blacks being lynched during the late 1800s - both in the far away and long ago.

[Chief Pedant]

Insisting Ms Tilghman's use of "lynching" had racial overtones is a reflection of Mr Sharpton's race-consciousness and not Ms Tilghman's putative racism. It is Mr Sharpton who cannot get past skin color. While Ms Tilghman may have offended Mr Sharpton on color grounds, any offense in her remark about Tiger Woods was color-independent. She would have readily made the same comment had Mr Woods been white. Most of us in the golfing world (and there are more than three of us, btw) have long since forgotten what Mr Woods' color is. I have been to PGA tournaments where Tiger Woods is playing and seen nothing but worship for the ground on which he walks. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest it was some sort of deep and hidden racist Freudian slip.

There are moments, and this is one of them for me, when individuals who fall all over themselves protecting the world against hurtful language fail to realize that in the wrong instance such "protection" serves merely to impart an implied weakness that is not otherwise there. It is completely counterproductive. Tiger Woods is one of the most powerful individuals in all of sports. He is personal friends with Ms Tighlman. If Mr Woods is offended, I am confident he'll let Ms Tilghman know. If not, it's a non-issue. Mr Woods does not need Daddy Sharpton to look out for him, and for Mr Sharpton to do so without being asked suggest that Mr Sharpton thinks Mr Woods is incapable of defending himself.

[Bryan Ekers]

::checks watch::
Is it 1972 again?

Shut yo' mouth!



wakatchoo-wakatchoo-wakatchoo-wakatchoo...

[Wee Bairn]

Does this still happen with any frequency? I've never heard of it on the news, so my ideas of "lynching" are entirely from the wild west and black & white photos of blacks being lynched during the late 1800s - both in the far away and long ago.


Oh no, I meant your average person alive today, not a History buff, only knows of the lynchings they have seen pictures of or heard about or lived through of blacks in the South in the early 20th Century, so they think of it as a black thing because they don't know of any other examples.

[tomndebb]

The period of lynching in the U.S. extends from the 1830s or thereabouts through the 1930s, with several significant lynchings occurring from the 1940s through the 1980s--the latter all resulting in black deaths at the hands of whites.

Prior to the Civil War, most lynchings (often beatings or tarring and feathering that did not necessarily end in death) were imposed by white Southerners on white Southerners for offenses against the culture.
Following the Civil War, lynchings became an extremely popular method of suppressing black rights in the East while serving as a method of vigilante "justice" in the West. The majority of the Western lynchings were finished before 1900, but the lynching of blacks in the East continued for another thirty years on a semi-regular basis. (Note that while the origin of the practice, under that name, was in the South, after 1900 the practice moved North and blacks were lynched in Chicago and Duluth among other places, although it remained primarily a Southern practice.)

Lynchings of rustlers, cardsharps, and horse thieves in the West ended as each state-becoming-territory accumulated enough population to hire sufficient law enforcement officers, prosecutors, and judges, and to build sufficient prisons that vigilante justice simply faded away.

Lynchings in the East were so prevalent in areas with established law enforcement and courts (with law officers often abetting the act) that blacks organized groups to protest to the Federal government that they needed protection. (The NAACP was begun primarily as a reaction against lynching.)

Between the inadequate teaching of history in our schools and the fact that movies often dealt with Western lynch mobs, (and most TV shows had the hero face down such a mob at least once in each run), while Eastern lynching of blacks was never quite "appropriate" fare for movies or TV, it is not surprising that many folks in the U.S. are far more familiar with "Western justice" than with the practice that killed far more people over far more years. On the other hand, you can be pretty sure that that memory has remained in the black community--witness the Jena, LA events over the last year.

[tomndebb]

Oh no, I meant your average person alive today, not a History buff, only knows of the lynchings they have seen pictures of or heard about or lived through of blacks in the South in the early 20th Century, so they think of it as a black thing because they don't know of any other examples.I would turn this around. I suspect that far more people remember Rowdy Yates or Lucas McCain or Cheyenne Bodie or various Jimmy Stewart or Audie Murphy characters facing down lynch mobs than ever think much of lynchings of blacks. On the other hand, it probably depends on the culture in which one was raised.


No-one reasonable would hesitate to apply it to the murder of Leo Frank (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Frank) so, no, lynching is not a racial term. You don't think that Frank's Jewishness played a part in his murder?

[Bryan Ekers]

You don't think that Frank's Jewishness played a part in his murder?

The circumstances always play a part, but regardless of the particular race/ethnicity of the victim, if the lynchers want badly enough to make themselves feel righteous by killing someone, they will. Harping on race or ethnicity just makes it easier to rationalize.

[kaylasdad99]

I wonder if Al Sharpton has boycotted this stuff (http://www.jdcollectorspage.com/images/limonade3.JPG) yet?I don't know if the rev. is a drinker, so it might just be moot.

I bet this (http://www.netnoir.com/images/stories/Merrill_Lynch_CEO_Stan_ONeal.jpg) 'bout made his head to assplode, though.

:D

[Argent Towers]

I would turn this around. I suspect that far more people remember Rowdy Yates or Lucas McCain or Cheyenne Bodie or various Jimmy Stewart or Audie Murphy characters facing down lynch mobs than ever think much of lynchings of blacks.

Maybe people who are more than 45 years old. I have no idea who any of those people are that you've mentioned besides Jimmy Stewart, and I'm assuming that you're referring to lynching in classic Western movies, a genre that few people in today's younger generations have any kind of familiarity with. Among everyone that I know, lynching most definitely does have racial connotations. I can say that I definitely think of blacks being lynched, and not anything else, when I hear that word. I don't claim to be telepathic, but I'd guess that if the headline "Man Lynched in (some state)" appeared at the top of CNN.com, the majority of people who read it would assume it was a black person.

[kunilou]

As my wife said, "oh, I don't think that was a good choice of words."