Atheist Dopers - would you raise your children religious?

[Illuminatiprimus]

Prompted by another thread and, coincidentally, an unrelated conversation I had with a friend of mine recently.

Would you as an atheist be willing to bring up your children religious? If so why? Would you be happy to bring up your children open to the idea of faith (or lack thereof) or would you flat out say to them "there is no God, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong".

In the conversation with my friend, he had a friend who was raised Catholic but eventually lapsed and then became an atheist, as is quite resentful of some of the hang ups that the Church gave her. But she also said she'd probably raise her children Catholic as well as it would give them something to be part of and get involved in. For me I'd do as my parents did which is be willing to discuss the issue and say what I think but not try and tell the child that they have to agree with me and be willing for them to get involved with religion if that's what they really wanted (actually for a while I went to Sunday school because some of my friends did and I wanted to join in, didn't last though).

[Eliahna]

Hell no. I'll let my child do religious studies at school (if they are still an option like they were when I was a child) and I'll try not to let my beliefs colour what I tell my child when we discuss what other people believe and why, but I will not raise my child in a religion that I don't believe in.

[Mellivora capensis]

No.

[Kyla]

Well...maybe. My background is Jewish, and I'm an atheist. I would consider sending a child to Hebrew school (not day school, though) to learn about Jewish culture and traditions, but I wouldn't fake being uber-religious at home.

[yojimbo]

Would you as an atheist be willing to bring up your children religious? If so why? Would you be happy to bring up your children open to the idea of faith (or lack thereof) or would you flat out say to them "there is no God, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong". I wouldn't force any dogma on my child. There'd be a lack of religion in the house and I wouldn't go out of my way to educate them on religion but if the kid showed interest then they'd be supported.
For me I'd do as my parents did which is be willing to discuss the issue and say what I think but not try and tell the child that they have to agree with me and be willing for them to get involved with religion if that's what they really wanted (actually for a while I went to Sunday school because some of my friends did and I wanted to join in, didn't last though).
That is almost exactly what my parents did. I was about 25 when my father actually told me he was an atheist. I knew a long time before that but he didn't feel the need to put his beliefs on me.

If I was to fill my child with my lack of religion I'd be no better than the people who force religion on a child.

[jjimm]

No way.

I'd hope they get comparitive religious studies at school, and I'd explain the requirement for ritual within a society - and how in this particular one this is often expressed through church-based ceremony, and therefore one should be polite when attending weddings, funerals, etc. But that's as far as it would go.

I would also express that "some people believe in [insert deity there], but I don't, and here's why.... It's up to you to make up your own mind." This is the approach my dad took regarding politics, and I thank him for it.

Mind you, I'm not going to have kids, so it's irrelevant.

[Marienee]

You can take the girl out of the church, but you can't take the church out of the girl. Or that's what they say.

My husband is an atheist raised Catholic; we are raising our children Roman Catholic. It's pretty common, really.

The thing about being Catholic is two fold: one is that for people raised in that way, the notion of the community of the faith is very strong, and they want that for their kids. The question of God's existence is then somewhat beside the point. For other people, it's very bound up in their cultural and family background and outlook on the world such that it is difficult to imagine the one without the other. This is also true of many of the Orthodox faiths.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Well...maybe. My background is Jewish, and I'm an atheist. I would consider sending a child to Hebrew school (not day school, though) to learn about Jewish culture and traditions, but I wouldn't fake being uber-religious at home.

Bingo. Being Jewish means that this is my kids ethnicity too. I want them connected to their cultural past, and for us that means a connections to the religious aspects as well. There are a surprising number of atheists at our synagogue (a funny blend of conservative and reconstructionist).

My kids (10 and 13) know that I'm atheist but I love being Jewish and take enjoyment from participating in ritual.

Since there is no requirement for an expression of faith, I have no conflict bringing them up Jewish. (One of my son's friends just had his Bar Mitzvah and his whole speech was about reconciling his atheism with his religious study).

[Sage Rat]

No. If they (my children) asked me to start taking them to church/mosque/temple or whatever, I'd take them. If they asked me about religion and the existance of deities, I'd give both sides of the argument to the best of my ability. I'd be perfectly fine to keep them informed and allow them to make whatever choices they had.

But, convincing a kid about something that no one has any authority what-so-ever to declare a done deal, particularly if it's something like, "You must obey and speak only positively of your parents or you're GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!", is just plain off fucked up.

[nonacetone]

My husband is an atheist, and I am agnostic, raised Roman Catholic.
We didn't push our beliefs onto her, ever.

We sent our daughter to Catholic grade school.
We did this, because it was just a much better school than the public schools (The student-teacher ratio was 2, if that tells you anything). She got a much better education in the Catholic school than she ever would have in a public school (at least in this area), but that's beside the point.

She also learned much about the Catholic religion.
It was, and still is, up to her to decide if she is a believer or not.
As it stands now, she's 20 years old, and she sort of believes there is something out there, but she's just not sure what it is.
This is something she'll have to decide for herself.
I guess that's where her 'faith' (or lack of) would come into play.

[Purgatory Creek]

This seems like a really strange question to me, though I see it isn't to many of you. I can't imagine myself raising a child in any religion because I don't have any interest in or knowledge of a religion to teach them. It would be like trying to raise my child to be of a different nationality or another species.

I suppose they'd be exposed to religious ideas at some point through their friends or even other relatives, and I'd definitely discuss those ideas with them if they brought them up, but I'd never broach the subject myself because I would just never think of it. It's not a subject that ever comes up in the course of my life. If a child of mine did want to explore a religion, I'd be supportive (in most cases), but I would be very proactive about combating any religion-inspired intolerance or hatred as a matter of principle.

[Pushkin]

I'll let my child do religious studies at school (if they are still an option like they were when I was a child)

I've no choice in the matter, in Northern Ireland religious studies are mandatory right up until age 16. But outside of that, I wouldn't force something on my child that I saw as wrong.

[Dunderman]

No. I would encourage them to learn about religion, but I would always make my own beliefs on the matter clear, as well as the reasons for those beliefs.

[Hamadryad]

This seems like a really strange question to me, though I see it isn't to many of you. I can't imagine myself raising a child in any religion because I don't have any interest in or knowledge of a religion to teach them. It would be like trying to raise my child to be of a different nationality or another species.

I suppose they'd be exposed to religious ideas at some point through their friends or even other relatives, and I'd definitely discuss those ideas with them if they brought them up, but I'd never broach the subject myself because I would just never think of it. It's not a subject that ever comes up in the course of my life. If a child of mine did want to explore a religion, I'd be supportive (in most cases), but I would be very proactive about combating any religion-inspired intolerance or hatred as a matter of principle.This. Totally this. I'll add that if my children express an interest in any particular religion, I'll want to know why. My fairly atheistic kid suddenly wanted to be baptized because he went to church with a friend who talked it up a lot. I told the kid to write an essay on why he wanted to be baptized. He said he didn't want to do all that writing. I told him that baptism was a pretty big deal in the church, and that if he didn't care enough to write about it, he definitely didn't care enough to be baptized. He dropped it and doesn't seem to have regretted the decision at all.

To raise my kids in a religion would be a huge hypocricy. You might as well ask if a Catholic would bring up their kid atheist, or if Bill Gates would bring up his kids Communist.

[shiftless]

Yes and no. If my kid wanted to go to church I would (and have) take him. I would try to answer any questions in a fair and thoughtful way, which is what I really want him to learn. I wouldn't "raise" him to be a Catholic or Baptist or whatever.

Now that my son is in his late teens I see a certain cultural gap in his knowledge that would have been filled by church.

He has never had to get up on the weekend and dress nicely. Most of his friends do this. If you have a teen you know, it would be nice to see them dressed and awake once in a while.

He doesn't understand references that are common in our culture. Christianity is sort of a shared mythology that pervades our lives, even us atheists. I use phrases like "No room in the inn" and "burning bush" all the time.

So, I guess when they invent an atheist church, with bake sales and picnics and shared references and internal politics, I'm make my family go. Or maybe we'll just sleep in.

[What Exit?]

I left the RCC when I was 7. I decided it was just too silly back then. My beliefs about the church have not changed much. My wife is a non-practicing Jew.

Our kids are being raised without any religion, but a decent dose of fantasy and imagination that does not rule out the existence of a supreme being or God(s) or the IPU. ;)

Every once in a while, I consider joining the local Unitarian church, but then I quickly change my mind. I don't really like churches & temples and I don't like religious ceremonies. I am tempted far too often to cry out Bullshit or now thanks to the SDMB taint, Cite!

I do find myself being snarky about religion and churches. The more organized, the less I tolerate them. My daughter (10) seems to already be picking up on this. It appears she has God filed in with Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairies and other delightful childhood imaginary creatures.

The last Bat Mitzvah we attended for my wife's cousin's daughter was 3 hours long, followed by a 4 hour party, followed by a 3 hour party. This put to an end, any thoughts my daughter ever had of having a Bat Mitzvah. She found the day to be long, boring, loud, obnoxious and horrible. I actually agreed with her. The ceremony itself was the worst part. I will not attend another. If my daughter does not want to go, I will let her stay home with me.

My son on the other hand enjoyed the Bat Mitzvah and will probably want to go to the next one. He also still believes in Santa, God, the Tooth Fairy and the rest.

Jim

[D_Odds]

As the only non-Filipino in the household, the answer is yes. They tolerate my lack of faith, but that is it.

For those not in the know, Filipinos are greatly and mostly Roman Catholic.

[Der Trihs]

No.

First, because I look upon religion as vile, stupid and destructive, and I'd never inflict that on a child. By my standards, it would be the equivalent of teaching them that they'll die horribly if they don't smoke as much as possible.

And second, I find it extremely difficult and uncomfortable to lie, even about trivial things. I doubt I could bring myself to tell my hypothetical child that Santa Claus is real, much less God.

[Malthus]

Bingo. Being Jewish means that this is my kids ethnicity too. I want them connected to their cultural past, and for us that means a connections to the religious aspects as well. There are a surprising number of atheists at our synagogue (a funny blend of conservative and reconstructionist).

My kids (10 and 13) know that I'm atheist but I love being Jewish and take enjoyment from participating in ritual.

Since there is no requirement for an expression of faith, I have no conflict bringing them up Jewish. (One of my son's friends just had his Bar Mitzvah and his whole speech was about reconciling his atheism with his religious study).

Not really much of a conflict for us Jews. My family made no secret of the fact that they were into the whole Saturday school and temple thing for the culture - and no-one cared.

With my son, I faced a difficult dilemma, because my wife is Catholic: how do I tell my Protestant best friend and his Muslim wife that they were not Catholic enough to be godparents to the son of this Jew?

[Revenant Threshold]

No, partially because I wouldn't want to, but partially because i'm not entirely sure I could, because I've not been religious at any point.

I'm not sure i'd teach them atheism, though. "This is what I believe, but I could be wrong", more. As much as I think i'm right, i'm not going to damn them with my mistake. As long as they honestly think about it, whatever they choose is fine by me.

[NajaNivea]

We'll raise our children to be open to ideas and concepts and to decide for themselves what they feel is right. My husband is a geneticist and has an interesting take on the god question--as a scientist he sees the beauty and order of the natural world, right down to the molecular level. He doesn't, personally, believe in god, but also believes that science will never prove nor disprove the existence of god and that there's absolutely room for faith in science for those who believe.

We'll teach our children about religion, and allow them to explore if they choose, but if they ask me what I believe I will tell them, with the caveat that it's what we believe, which is different from knowing.

[Pithy Moniker]

It's complicated in my situation. I'm an atheist and my wife is Catholic. She wants to raise any children we might have as Catholics. Obviously, I'd rather raise them free from religious beliefs and we can't have it both ways.

We've decided to compromise should we ever have kids. She gets to take them to church and tell her side. I get to tell my side. Ultimately we will leave the decision up to them.

[Dung Beetle]

I allowed my religious mom and grandmother to pay for religious private school for my kids when they were young because it was a much better school than the public one they would have gone to. Besides, they sent me to a Christian school, and I got over it! However, at the age of sixteen my daughter claims to still believe. We don't usually discuss it, but a couple of days ago I got quite vehement while talking about Huckabee and said some things that were shocking to her. (She already knew that I was hellbound, but she didn't seem to realize how strong my anti-religious feelings are. How could she? They seem to grow more so every day).

Anyway, I tried to rein myself in…I don't want her to rebel and become a fundie. ;) I ended the conversation by saying to her that she should probably go to church a lot more. (Worked for me!) That killed the topic, because although she believes, she doesn't want to go to church. It's boring.

[Cluricaun]

Absolutely I would. Every Sunday we'd get up early in the morning and put on our special outfits and then spend a few hours appreciating the beauty of the world and the natural order of things while having coffee and hot chocolate. Our religion would be called "fishing" and our church would be "the lake". That's as close to spiritual as I'd get.

My girlfriend OTOH would have the little bastards in Catholic church as soon as possible, so we'll see.

[Staggerlee]

I was brought up an agnostic, I suppose - my parents never claimed to believe in God, but didn't go out of their way to dissuade me from believing, and I went to a Church of England state school.

I certainly wouldn't bring any child of mine up as religious, as I am not. I wouldn't have a problem with them taking up a Faith if they felt they must, but I would feel obliged to debate the likelyhood of God with them as I do with anyone (who will listen...).

[kelly5078]

I'm in there with Kyla and IvoryTowerDenizen. I don't think I would personally have done anything, but my wife sent both kids to Hebrew school so that they'd have some clue about being Jewish. They, like us, are atheists (although I think my wife is more of a pantheist; I have a hard time telling the difference).

My wife is very fond of her Jewish heritage; as a convert, I'm less invested, but I quite like it. I have no clue how my children feel about it. They identify themselves as both Jewish and atheist (a common combination), but I don't know how much of the heritage they internalize. Seems like not so much, though.

[SkeptiJess]

I'm an atheist and my husband is Lutheran. My husband did want the kids to be raised with exposure to traditional Christianity. He also wanted them to be baptised, which I had no problem with. I raised them as I had been raised -- sort of culturally Christian. We did Christmas and Easter; bible stories and the Golden Rule; and so on. I also told then religious stories from other cultures.

They are grown now. My daughter (20) went through a pretty devout stage and still self-rdentifies as a Christian. My son (21) is an atheist.

[Cat Fight]

Sunday School = free babysitting

[brendon_small]

I kind of think I wouldn't worry about it. Basically, I am waiting until he is old enough to decide for himself. I'm an atheist, as is my wife, but we both come from religious families (or at least somewhat) and made our own decisions about faith. I will gladly allow my son to believe what he wants to, but my general answer would be "I believe differently" for discussions of religion with him if he chose to be religious.

Brendon Small

[Kinthalis]

No.

I would also say to my kids (and some of the posters above) that it's one thing to claim to be open minded about the subject and that science might not ever be able to say anything about the existance of a 'god'. But these arguments really only hold water for a very deistic prime mover. I think science and history have a lot to say about specific gods as described in different religious traditions.

[FateHappens]

I wish I'd kept my kids strictly away from religion.
My spouse "didn't think it was a big deal" that her friend was taking our daughter to Sunday school for a few months. But clearly it was a big deal or why was I mislead into thinking it was just spending time with the friend's daughter?
Anyway, my daughter was a real pill once I found out and it was a sticking point in both the marriage and parenting relationships. Went away after a while, and my daughter didn't suffer any permanent harm, but the whole thing was something I wouldn't wish on anyone else.

[NajaNivea]

I would also say to my kids (and some of the posters above) that it's one thing to claim to be open minded about the subject and that science might not ever be able to say anything about the existance of a 'god'. But these arguments really only hold water for a very deistic prime mover. I think science and history have a lot to say about specific gods as described in different religious traditions.
Agreed. Point?

[Sal Ammoniac]

Atheist married to a Catholic. My kids go to Sunday school, and did their First Communion the other year. I really don't see much harm in it. We never talk about religious subjects, sort of by common consent. I fully expect my kids to emerge as cultural Catholics, but atheists in actual practice.

Basically I think of religiosity as a heritable trait, and my kids didn't seem to get it.

[Kinthalis]

Agreed. Point?


My point is that MOST religious are not in the business of worshipping a deistic prime mover. Saying that science can't say anything about such a being should not then automatically mean that yhwh or zeus, etc could exist or that christianiy, judaism, etc have it right, which is what I see being implied in some of the posts above. Essentially: "Well science can't say antyhing about god, therefore chrsitianity is perfectly plausible." is what I'm hearing people will say to their kids. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting?

[NajaNivea]

My point is that MOST religious are not in the business of worshipping a deistic prime mover. Saying that science can't say anything about such a being should not then automatically mean that yhwh or zeus, etc could exist or that christianiy, judaism, etc have it right, which is what I see being implied in some of the posts above. Essentially: "Well science can't say antyhing about god, therefore chrsitianity is perfectly plausible." is what I'm hearing people will say to their kids. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting?
I think so, at least in our case. We think that more or less everything any religion has to say on the matter is... implausible, to put it gently. That there could be a prime mover who set the whole thing in motion? Sure? Why not? That there could even be a god active in our world, today? We don't believe so, but we can't disprove it. I don't think we'll ever disprove it, but that doesn't mean I necessarily put any stock in the notion. I can't disprove sasquatch, but that doesn't mean I believe in sasquatch, or unicorns.

Let me put it another way. I don't believe in god. I don't think people are stupid for believing there is a god, or a pantheon of gods, or whatever. I do, however, think that Christianity and Hinduism and Islam and Vodun and Mocumba and Zoroastrianism are entirely social constructs, stories humans tell themselves to make sense of the world around them. If there is a god, I think the force is one and the same and that people are too wrapped up in squabbling over the superficial details.

We plan to raise our children to question everything and think for themselves. If that leads them to any kind of religious fundamentalism, then we'll have failed somewhere along the line. Is that hypocritical? Maybe. It wouldn't bother me to know my children believed in god, but it would bother me to know they're tithing ten percent of their income to a church, or making major life decisions on what Pastor Bob thinks.

[NajaNivea]

*based on what Pastor Bob thinks.

[vison]

My husband and I are both lifelong atheists, brought up by agnostic/atheist parents, and we brought our 2 sons up in the same way. Our children got no religious education at all.

But my 12 year old grandson decided last year that he wanted to go to the Mennonite Educational Institute for the last year of middle school (grade 8). This is a private school, of course, and the school motto is: Equipping students for Life and Forever. The school has an excellent academic and sports program, every modern facility.

So, long discussions. "If you go there, you have to take Bible, it's not an option. There's chapel every day. Visiting preachers. Etc." Well, he decided it was still what he wanted, all his particular friends were going there. They are a nice bunch of kids, high achievers academically and in sports, and we are glad he hangs around with those kids instead of some others. When his dad was a kid, we had plenty of sad experience of "some others". Don't want to go through that again.

But the first term was tough. The very first assignment in Bible class was to write an essay answering the question: Is the Bible True? This was very interesting and aside from anything else, it made him think. He said, "No, it's all bullshit, but I can't write that, can I?"

"You can't say 'bullshit' in an essay, no, but you can say you don't 'believe'." And I added, "Why do you say it's all bullshit? What do you know about the bible, anyway?"

After a great deal of to-ing and fro-ing, he got his essay done. He didn't want to announce too loudly to his teacher that he thinks it's all bullshit, but he wasn't going to write a dishonest essay, either. He got a B on the essay, although he was convinced that his teacher would "punish" him for being an atheist. I knew the teacher would be fair, and he was.

He's had to memorize plenty of Bible verses, which he hates, but memorizing long passages won't hurt him. I had to memorize a lot of stuff when I went to school, and I think it's a good thing, a kind of brain training. Learn the multiplication tables by rote and you never need to stop and figure out what 7 times 9 is, you know automatically. Some things are good to memorize, in other words.

If I went to that school, I would hate all the praying, too. But as long as he's not hassled about getting saved, we're fine with him going there. He moaned about wanting to transfer to a public school at the end of the first term, but we told him he had to finish his year out, we went to a lot of trouble and expense to get him into the school in the first place. Now he's settled in well, and his marks are good, B's for the most part. If he does decide to become a Christian, being a Mennonite is not the worst thing. They are good at doing good works, and while they are more or less "fundies" they are about the least offensive to me.

My main concern with the kids' education is that they are happy in the school they attend. Having been through this once before, I have quite different priorities than I did for his dad and my other son. Religious instruction won't hurt him. Religion is hugely important for many people, and I'm glad he is getting some understanding of why that is.

However, if it comes about that he is pushed or annoyed or hassled about becoming a Christian, we'll move him. I don't think it will happen, though.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

My wife has insisted on raising our kids in the RCC. I resisted at first but now it doesn't bother me. The school is better than a public school, plus I think it serves to demystify religion for them as well as to give them some education about what Christianity is. Most atheists I know were raised in some kind of religious tradition, so it's not like it's a death sentence.

When they get older, I'll let them know my perspective on things and fill them in on some more objective data regarding religion but their minds are their own and I don't feel the need to tell them what to believe. I'm more concerned about them being good people than whether or not they believe in God.

[The Hamster King]

My wife and I are both atheists. We do talk to our kids about religion, but we try to make sure ALL religions get equal footing. We teach them about Christianity right alongside Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and the Greek and Roman pantheons. We say things like "Some people believe in gods. But there's a lot of disagreement over how many gods there are and what their powers are and what they're trying to do. Without any proof one way or another, it's impossible to tell who's right. Mommy and I don't believe that there are any gods at all -- we think they're just pretend like characters in stories." It seems to be working so far.

[Frank]

I view this thread as being pretty much impossible to limit to a poll. Therefore...

Moved from IMHO to GD.

[photopat]

If I had kids, and they were curious about religion I'd tell them about it from the vantage point of an agnostic atheist who was brought up Catholic. If, after that they still wanted to explore religion I'd have to let them, but I'd definitely try to provide a consistent counterpoint.

[Latro]

Problem is that my wife is religious. Or rather still has religious feelings in that there must be something out there, a Big Boss.

So she does want to teach them the 'old stories' and I'm okay with that. I mean, I learned them as true and was able to outgrow it so why shouldn't my kids.

Every now and then though her feelings grow deeper and she would like them to grow up 'in the bosom of the Church' with the feeling of belonging that she used to feel.

That would mean having them baptised which would, in turn, mean that I myself should swear to raise them as good Catholics.

NO FFING WAY

[Sophistry and Illusion]

It would seem bizarre to me. Which religion would I choose? Since I don't believe God exists, a fortiori I don't know which religion/denomination is the correct one, so it would seem arbitrary to pick this particular faith for my child to have. I mean, if one religion is better than the others, there must be some reason why it is. If our daughter is able to discern such a reason when she is older, she is free to join that church. I won't try to indoctrinate her into atheism; but I won't outsource her indoctrination either.

[Geek Mecha]

My SO and I aren't religious. Religion isn't a part of our lives at all. So there's little good reason to raise our kids as anything other than the heathen sinners we are. We will educate them and encourage them to figure the world out for themselves, but to actively encourage a dogma that isn't ours? Can't, and won't, do it.

I would be reluctant to send my kids to a better but religious school. That feels disrespectful to the faithful somehow.

[Ca3799]

No, I can't in good conscience indoctrinate my kids.

Religion is an open topic of discussion around our house and each kid had attended some kind of church at least a couple of times, but I just can't bring myself to take them regularly to any kind of church.

[jjimm]

With my son, I faced a difficult dilemma, because my wife is Catholic: how do I tell my Protestant best friend and his Muslim wife that they were not Catholic enough to be godparents to the son of this Jew?That's odd: I'm godfather to two Catholic children (and a Protestant one), and my atheism was well known to both sets of parents.

[Voyager]

No, because I would have had to hold my tongue if they came home spouting nonsense. Not to mention it was important to me to raise skeptical, questioning kids, and that doesn't go well with most religions.

What I did was to go through the beginning of Genesis with them when they were about in 7th grade, pointing out the obvious contradictions and the evidence of separate authorship of the different sections. The purpose was to help them read critically. After that, we didn't oppose them going with friends to religious youth groups and things. I trusted them to be able to listen critically to the indoctrination while having fun. This trust was well placed. At home I set an example of how religion was not necessary. It worked, they are both adults and both atheists.

[Spoke]

Would you as an atheist be willing to bring up your children religious? If so why? Would you be happy to bring up your children open to the idea of faith (or lack thereof) or would you flat out say to them "there is no God, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong".

My dad was raised religious, but became an agnostic as an adult. He allowed and even encouraged me to attend Sunday School and church as a kid. As an adult I wound up taking his path to atheism.

I would have no problem with my (still hypothetical at this point) kids attending church. I doubt any indoctrination would stick into adulthood (didn't for me or my dad, or my sister), and I think it's actually good to have some cultural (if not spiritual) grounding in the Bible.

[Sal Ammoniac]

That would mean having them baptised which would, in turn, mean that I myself should swear to raise them as good Catholics.

NO FFING WAY
On the other hand, what's your punishment for swearing insincerely?

[Malthus]

That's odd: I'm godfather to two Catholic children (and a Protestant one), and my atheism was well known to both sets of parents.

Hey, I'm just going by what I was told, since I am not Catholic myself. Allegedly in Catholicism you gotta be Catholic to be a proper "Godfather", though if you are a Protestant you can be a "witness". A Muslim (or athiest) is right out.

A bit of Googling tends to confirm this:

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0233.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godparent#Roman_Catholic_Church

Of course, some churches take this stuff more seriously than others - my wife's family's church does, so I could not have my friends as "godparents".

[Malthus]

More cites on catholic godparents:

http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/godpar.htm

TO QUALIFY AS A GODPARENT
12. Not everyone qualifies to be a godparent. The Catholic Church provides a detailed guideline that must be obeyed. "To be admitted to undertake the office of sponsor, a person must:" (Canon 874.1)

12.1 "be appointed by the candidate for baptism, or by the parents or whoever stands in their place, or failing these, by the parish priest or the minister; to be appointed the person must be suitable for this role and have the intention of fulfilling it;" (Canon 874.1.1)

12.2 "be not less than sixteen years of age, unless a different age has been stipulated by the diocesan Bishop, or unless the parish priest or the minister considers that there is a just reason for an exception to be made;" (Canon 874.1.2)

12.3 "be a catholic who has been confirmed and has received the blessed Eucharist, and who lives a life of faith which befits the role to be undertaken;" (Canon 874.1.3)

12.4 "not labour under a canonical penalty, whether imposed or declared;" (Canon 874.1.4)

12.5 "not be either the father or the mother of the person to be baptised." (Canon 874.1.5)

12.6 "A baptised person who belongs to a non-catholic ecclesial community may be admitted only in company with a catholic sponsor, and then simply as a witness to the baptism." (Canon 874.2)

DISQUALIFYING AS A GODPARENT
13. What follows is a list of personal characteristics that disqualify a person as a godparent:

13.1 the person has no intention of fulfilling his obligations as a godparent.

13.2 the person is younger than the age that has been stipulated by the diocesan Bishop, usually age 16.

13.3 the person is not a Catholic.

13.4 the person has not received the Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic faith.

13.5 the person has not received the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Catholic faith.

13.6 the person has not received the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist in the Catholic faith.

13.7 the person is not living his faith in accordance with the teachings of the Catholic Church. (Example: The person has not been at Mass for 2, 5 or 10 years. The person employs birth control methods.)

13.8 the person belongs to a religious Order (preventing him/her from making this commitment).

13.9 the person is the spouse of the one seeking Baptism.

13.10 the person is a biological or adoptive father or mother of the child.

13.11 the person has incurred an official excommunication or "latae sententiae," by the very commission of the offense. (Example: involved in one or more abortions.)

13.12 the person is a member of a condemned society.

13.13 the person is a public sinner. (Example: Prostitution, living common-law.)

13.14 the person is a heretic. "Heresy is the obstinate post- baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same." (C.C.C. # 2089)

13.15 the person belongs to a schism. "Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." (C.C.C. # 2089)

13.16 the person is involved in a mix-marriage and believes his/her children should choose their own religion when they grow up.

13.17 the person believes that all religions are equal or that other religions are equal to the Catholic Church.

13.18 the person is involved in an invalid marriage. (Example: Justice of the Peace, marriage outside the Church.)

13.19 the person is not registered with a parish, not belonging to any specific faith community.

Ironically, there is no way I could be a "godparent" myself ... :D

[flight]

Is anyone else noticing the common theme of "I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?" It seems to be coming up quite a bit.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Is anyone else noticing the common theme of "I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?" It seems to be coming up quite a bit.

Jews and Catholics are another common pairing (says the atheist Jew married to the lapsed agnostic Catholic)...

[Sal Ammoniac]

Is anyone else noticing the common theme of "I am an atheist and my wife is Roman Catholic?" It seems to be coming up quite a bit.
What can I say? They turn us on!

[jjimm]

Of course, some churches take this stuff more seriously than others - my wife's family's church does, so I could not have my friends as "godparents".Since both my Catholic godchildren are in Ireland, I'm guessing Irish Catholicism, like other aspects of life in Ireland, honours the rules more in the breach than the observance...

[Illuminatiprimus]

Ironically I'm a godparent as well - well, I am technically, I no longer associate with the people I was made godparent to so it's academic whether I should have been made one at all (just as well really considering I'm a Satanist, isn't it?).

[Maastricht]

I'm atheist, and live in a generally atheist country, the Netherlands. Would I raise my kid in any religion?
I'd hope to follow the example of Barack Obama's atheist mom, and how she raised little Obama, as cited on Snopes. (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp) .
Of his mother's religious views, Senator Obama wrote:
For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways — and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives. In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.

[photopat]

I'm a godparent to one of my nephews. I look at it this way.

a) The Catholic Church has rules.
a)-1 Those rules apply to Catholics.

b) I no longer believe in a god and have no active relationship with the Catholic Church, therefore I am not a Catholic.
b)-1 Those rules do not apply to me.

c)Therefore, even though I'm an atheist, I'm not breaking any rules that I recognize as valid by being a godparent. I would, if necessary respect my sisters wishes with regard to the raising of her son, even if I don't believe as she does. To me,that should be enough.

[drm]

No. Absolutely not. I'll probably celebrate Christmas but I couldn't even in good conscious celebrate Easter (other than to go to family things). I might do my best to teach them about religions but I'd cover them all equally mostly so they understand what all the fuss is all about.

To be honest, I don't see myself marrying someone who is so religious that they'd want to raise our children religious so it shouldn't be an issue.

[John Mace]

I've no choice in the matter, in Northern Ireland religious studies are mandatory right up until age 16. But outside of that, I wouldn't force something on my child that I saw as wrong.
Is that actual instruction in the RCC or CoE, or just "religious studies" as in learning about the various world religions?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm another atheist godparent to one of my Catholic nieces. In fairness, no one from the church ever asked me what I was, so maybe they'd have objected had they known.

[Der Trihs]

Sunday School = free babysittingNot really. You are selling them your child's brain as a home for their dogma, in return for a few hours away from the kid.

[Nzinga, Seated]

I really, really try not to jump into religeous debates, for a whole lot of reasons, one in particular being the desire to have respect for the belief of others... not wanting to say anything that would make others feel disrespected.

But on this topic I really do want to say one thing. I was traumatized by the idea of hell. I mean, it sank into my psyche and took a terrifying hold.

When I fully believed in the brand of Christianity that my mother did, I didn't fear hell too badly. But when my mind first began to turn inside of my lil' young head, and I began to doubt a biblical heaven and hell...that is when I became almost suffocated with the fear of a never ending hell.

I mean, the idea that the god that loves me would burn me eternally, while I gasp for air, feeling choked and wracked with pain...forever! I was scarred.

By the time I was nearly completely out of the darkness regarding heaven and hell, I had started to panic at the concept of an everlasting heaven! An everlasting conciousness in any form freaked me out. But nothing was or ever will be as scary as that feeling I had as a young girl, fearing hell.

I simply cannot imagine traumatizing my own little girl.

That said, I completely feel comfortable with her learning about religion. In fact, we discuss it quite often.

[GorillaMan]

I would hope to give my children the same non-religious approach as my parents gave us. Which is not to say it was an atheist's method, partly because I now do have some understanding of their complicated relationships with traditional Christianity and in particular Catholicism.

I would see it as my duty, my obligation, to give them every opportunity to make decisions such as these for themselves. But not to impose religious views on them, and I would have a big problem with third parties doing so. (I have in the past started a big rant about religion having no place in education, and midway remembered that I was in the staff room of a Church of England school :smack: )

[panache45]

Atheism merely describes what I don't believe, not what I do believe. I would teach my child to be a rational, independant and compassionate human being, and to receive joy from real things in a real universe. And I can't imaging being married to someone who thinks otherwise.

[Voyager]

Not really. You are selling them your child's brain as a home for their dogma, in return for a few hours away from the kid.

On the other hand, like with vaccinations, it is sometimes good to expose some one to small doses, at the proper age, so long as you can answer questions they may have. We have it easier than slightly religious parents, who might feel it hard to call bullshit on what a teacher says.
Plus, kids rebel. I don't want to set religion up as something forbidden and thus appealing. Far better for them to go and find out for themselves how absurd it is.

[Malthus]

I'm a godparent to one of my nephews. I look at it this way.

a) The Catholic Church has rules.
a)-1 Those rules apply to Catholics.

b) I no longer believe in a god and have no active relationship with the Catholic Church, therefore I am not a Catholic.
b)-1 Those rules do not apply to me.

c)Therefore, even though I'm an atheist, I'm not breaking any rules that I recognize as valid by being a godparent. I would, if necessary respect my sisters wishes with regard to the raising of her son, even if I don't believe as she does. To me,that should be enough.

I dunno. As a non-Catholic participating in a Catholic ritual, I feel bound to follow their rules, purely as a matter of courtesy. It wouldn't feel right, at least to me, to openly flout their traditions, rules and beliefs just because I do not believe in them myself.

[Der Trihs]

On the other hand, like with vaccinations, it is sometimes good to expose some one to small doses, at the proper age, so long as you can answer questions they may have. We have it easier than slightly religious parents, who might feel it hard to call bullshit on what a teacher says.
Plus, kids rebel. I don't want to set religion up as something forbidden and thus appealing. Far better for them to go and find out for themselves how absurd it is.But, will they realize it's absurd ? Your idea is nice in theory, but the whole reason the various religious factions make a point of pushing religion on kids is because kids are the most vulnerable to it. By the time they are old enough or knowledgeable enough to make a rational choice, their judgement will already have been crippled; religion's various anti-skepticism aspects will have subverted them.

[Tool of the Conspiracy]

He doesn't understand references that are common in our culture. Christianity is sort of a shared mythology that pervades our lives, even us atheists. I use phrases like "No room in the inn" and "burning bush" all the time. How about Christmas carols? When my seven-year-old daughter was singing them last month, she pronounced "Christ" like "Chris" with a T.
I allowed my religious mom and grandmother to pay for religious private school for my kids when they were young because it was a much better school than the public one they would have gone to. Besides, they sent me to a Christian school, and I got over it!My wife and I are both atheists, and we sent both of our daughters to a Christian preschool. We tried to let them make up their own minds about religion, and they seem to have gotten over it.
My mom has mentioned before that if we choose to send them to the local Catholic high school, she will help pay for it. The last time we saw her, my wife told her that we were strongly considering doing it, because the Catholic school is so much better than the public school. Mom told her what she had in mind as "helping": $25 a month. :rolleyes: Gee, that 5% will make the difference.
Since both my Catholic godchildren are in Ireland, I'm guessing Irish Catholicism, like other aspects of life in Ireland, honours the rules more in the breach than the observance...I come from a nice, big, religious Catholic family: Three of my siblings are divorced, two of those remarried, and two of my sisters have children conceived with men they didn't marry. (One married another man when she was seven months pregnant. She's not one of the divorced ones; they're still married 21 years later.) As far as I know, all of those people go to church every Sunday.

[Leaffan]

It appears to me (anecdotally through language) that most of you disagreeing with the notion of raising kids in some sort of religious environment actually HAVE NO KIDS!

Exposing kids to an organized religion is not a damaging prospect, nor a life sentence to engage in said religion.

I believe this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451504) thread of mine may have been the reason for this thread.

Knowledge of religion in and of itself is not a bad thing. In the same quoted thread I also said in post 51 that "Religion isn't an issue with me: fanaticism is though and I'm not even fanatic enough about atheism to keep my kids from learning about religion."

We are not a church-going family, although my kids are in a Catholic school. But it exposes them to the notion of God and religion and as I also said in post 51 "Although one certainly doesn't need religion to be moral, some of the teachings are a good starting point: Lord's Prayer, 10 commandments and all."

I honestly believe that by exposing kids to this, and by keeping an open mind as a parent, they will be free to choose the path with which they feel most comfortable.

Anyone who disagrees with exposing kids to organized religion in any manner, but maintaining a level keel at home, is denying the children from learning a great deal about our society and culture.

[Voyager]

But, will they realize it's absurd ? Your idea is nice in theory, but the whole reason the various religious factions make a point of pushing religion on kids is because kids are the most vulnerable to it. By the time they are old enough or knowledgeable enough to make a rational choice, their judgement will already have been crippled; religion's various anti-skepticism aspects will have subverted them.
It's not a theory. It's exactly what I did with my kids, who are both over 21 and both atheists. So it works.

Like I said, theists have a problem, because they are shamed into respecting the minister or pastor or priests view of religion. I don't have that problem. They also respect the Bible. If a kid asks about Genesis, the most liberal might say it isn't literally true, but there are seeds of truth. I can say it's a total myth, total bullshit, and show exactly the evidence for people writing it, people who didn't bother to get their story straight.

So don't give advice to a successful atheist father. Plus my older daughter's boyfriend is getting religion free. When you've done this, then you can talk.

[gonzomax]

My wife is catholic. My son went to catholic schools from grade school through college. I made it plain I would not go to church or any ceremonies in churches. If he asked why I would tell him. I told anybody I ran into in church what I thought.
He ended up being an atheist.

[SSG Schwartz]

As an atheist with not much chance of having children, I would say no. My fictitious child could come to me with questions and I would answer them as best I could. I would not lie about my beliefs. But in my situation in order to have children I have to have a religion, so I guess my child would too.

SSG Schwartz

[Illuminatiprimus]

I believe this (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451504) thread of mine may have been the reason for this thread.

Knowledge of religion in and of itself is not a bad thing. In the same quoted thread I also said in post 51 that "Religion isn't an issue with me: fanaticism is though and I'm not even fanatic enough about atheism to keep my kids from learning about religion."

We are not a church-going family, although my kids are in a Catholic school. But it exposes them to the notion of God and religion and as I also said in post 51 "Although one certainly doesn't need religion to be moral, some of the teachings are a good starting point: Lord's Prayer, 10 commandments and all."

Indeed it was - I started this thread before you qualified your position on this. However I would point out that when someone says they're raising their children Catholic that (to me, at least) implies more than simply having a bible in the room and learning the Lord's prayer. To me it implies baptism, regular church/mass/eucharist eating, confession, first communion, confirmation etc. All of this seems quite a lot to go through for someone who's an atheist, but if I'd known that it wasn't occuring I probably wouldn't have thought about it that much.

[monavis]

Not really much of a conflict for us Jews. My family made no secret of the fact that they were into the whole Saturday school and temple thing for the culture - and no-one cared.

With my son, I faced a difficult dilemma, because my wife is Catholic: how do I tell my Protestant best friend and his Muslim wife that they were not Catholic enough to be godparents to the son of this Jew?

I do not know if this is still the rule, but in the RCC the sponsors (or God parents) are supposed to pledge to raise the child Catholic if the parents neglect to do so or die. it used to be that the Sponsor had to be a Catholic in good standing.

Monavis

[Leaffan]

Indeed it was - I started this thread before you qualified your position on this. However I would point out that when someone says they're raising their children Catholic that (to me, at least) implies more than simply having a bible in the room and learning the Lord's prayer. To me it implies baptism, regular church/mass/eucharist eating, confession, first communion, confirmation etc. All of this seems quite a lot to go through for someone who's an atheist, but if I'd known that it wasn't occuring I probably wouldn't have thought about it that much.
Well, they have been baptized, and they have had first communion and confirmation. Like I said, we're not regular church-goers; we do the bare minimum really. But learning about any religion is not a bad thing. Heck, how many Jeopardy questions are devoted to the bible? I'm clueless in this category, and wish I knew more, but really have little interest in learning more!
(The hypocrite that I am! ;) )

[Dung Beetle]

I mean, the idea that the god that loves me would burn me eternally, while I gasp for air, feeling choked and wracked with pain...forever! I was scarred.


Just as the people who taught you that intended, those sick bastards.

[olivesmarch4th]

No freaking way would I raise my child with any kind of religious imperative.

I intend to expose my future kids to all sorts of different beliefs, including my own, but I will always be clear about the difference between faith and objective reality. My advice will no doubt be oriented around my own personal beliefs, but ultimately the decision to have a religion (or not) is a personal one and I want to raise a child who can think for her/himself in this regard.

[photopat]

I dunno. As a non-Catholic participating in a Catholic ritual, I feel bound to follow their rules, purely as a matter of courtesy. It wouldn't feel right, at least to me, to openly flout their traditions, rules and beliefs just because I do not believe in them myself.

On those occasions when I've gone to church with my family (nephew's first communion, etc.) I've been courteous regarding the traditions. I stand and sit and kneel along with everybody else, though I don't take communion.

But as to the rules regarding being a godfather I figure what they don't know won't hurt them.

[Malthus]

On those occasions when I've gone to church with my family (nephew's first communion, etc.) I've been courteous regarding the traditions. I stand and sit and kneel along with everybody else, though I don't take communion.

But as to the rules regarding being a godfather I figure what they don't know won't hurt them.

Heh, I guess being brought up a Jew (though not a believer in any diety), I'm culturally predisposed to following rules just because they are customary, not because of any belief in their essential validity. Even other people's rules. :D

Just wouldn't sit right with me, to have someone accept an essentially religious role who wasn't qualified for it under the rules of that religion (even though I don't believe in it or indeed in any religion). Not that I had a choice in this case, as I could not have gotten away with it.

Not saying you can't feel differently of course.

[Lobohan]

I'd probably tell my child that religion is for softheads who want a purpose or meaning given to them. People pretend it's true because they want it to be true.

I can't imagine being married to someone religious. In fact it upsets me that we're supposed to give greater esteem to an adult who bases life decisions on an imaginary friend.

[Sitnam]

I'm an atheist and the serious girl friend is a believing but non practicing Christian. To be honest, it's something that's been worrying me. The idea of my children going to church without me doesn't bother me, but Sunday School lessons filling my children's head with crap does.

The girlfriend had a good impression of church life and her friends there where a positive force in her life. Naturally she would want to duplicate that experience for her children and as much as I've always prided myself on an open mind I have to admit deep down I would be creeped out if my kid recited Bible passages.

[Dinsdale]

Wife and I are both atheist. We have 3 kids, aged 16-20. I'm sure my RC mom baptized them each in the sink sometime or another.

We attended a UU church, where the kids received some comparative religion education. The UU church had some kind of ceremonies, where the kids were welcomed into the church community, and a nonparent "sponsor" is named. I believe for one of our kids, we named a sponsor who is RC. At his request, we allowed him to baptize the kids as part of the ceremony. Thought it might make my mom feel better about us raising them heathen, but she was convinced it was of no value since it wasn't by a priest or in a "real church."

I'm also a godparent for one of my RC nephews. Not sure what my sister was thinking, but godparents never really played any significant role in my family. The kid is now 23, and we've never spoken of religion, our relationship as godfather/godson, etc. He's a good kid. I don't think he's very religious himself.

We freely discussed any aspects of any and all religions with our kids. It is interesting being an atheist, because you can discuss all religions equally - and equally irrational. I've always wondered how a religious person could tell their kids that - say, protestantism is right, and all those jews, catholics, and muslims are wrong.

The kids all think the idea of a God/gods pretty silly and irrelevant to anything that matters - other than possibly figuring out why some believers are acting irrationally and being judgmental.

[flight]

It appears to me (anecdotally through language) that most of you disagreeing with the notion of raising kids in some sort of religious environment actually HAVE NO KIDS!
Note that the title of the thread is: "...Would you raise your children religious?" It's hypothetical.

[Sal Ammoniac]

But, will they realize it's absurd ? Your idea is nice in theory, but the whole reason the various religious factions make a point of pushing religion on kids is because kids are the most vulnerable to it. By the time they are old enough or knowledgeable enough to make a rational choice, their judgement will already have been crippled; religion's various anti-skepticism aspects will have subverted them.
I don't think this is true. I think the premise of religious education is often to assure that if a kid is of a religious bent, they'll end up in the religion being taught. Or alternatively, even if the kid isn't religious, the education will keep the religion alive. The latter seems to me to particularly characterize Hebrew schools. Nearly all the Jews I know are non-believers, and yet many send their kids to Hebrew school. The kids will grow up and in turn send their own kids to Hebrew school, and so on, generation after generation. No one will be brainwashed, no one will deviate from unbelief, and yet the religion will be preserved. (And actually, I see the Catholics headed in the same direction.)

[Malthus]

I don't think this is true. I think the premise of religious education is often to assure that if a kid is of a religious bent, they'll end up in the religion being taught. Or alternatively, even if the kid isn't religious, the education will keep the religion alive. The latter seems to me to particularly characterize Hebrew schools. Nearly all the Jews I know are non-believers, and yet many send their kids to Hebrew school. The kids will grow up and in turn send their own kids to Hebrew school, and so on, generation after generation. No one will be brainwashed, no one will deviate from unbelief, and yet the religion will be preserved. (And actually, I see the Catholics headed in the same direction.)

Dunno about the last bit, it is quite true that for many Jews "religious school" is better named "Jewish culture school", but we Jews place a lot less emphasis on belief than Catholics from what I've seen.

[Voyager]

I don't think this is true. I think the premise of religious education is often to assure that if a kid is of a religious bent, they'll end up in the religion being taught. Or alternatively, even if the kid isn't religious, the education will keep the religion alive. The latter seems to me to particularly characterize Hebrew schools. Nearly all the Jews I know are non-believers, and yet many send their kids to Hebrew school. The kids will grow up and in turn send their own kids to Hebrew school, and so on, generation after generation. No one will be brainwashed, no one will deviate from unbelief, and yet the religion will be preserved. (And actually, I see the Catholics headed in the same direction.)
I went to Hebrew School for five years (even after my bar mitzvah) and it didn't affect me. I agree that it is mostly a cultural thing, since if you are born into it you're there. We learned history (some real, but starting at Abraham - they didn't pretend the first part of Genesis was real history) and mostly Hebrew so you could read your bar mitzvah portion. The very first story we read was about how Abraham was skeptical and disproved the idols when he was a child in Ur. Now that lesson took. :)

A lot of Protestants I know change religions more often than some people change underwear, since the differences aren't that great. It's a bit more serious for us.

However, the real reason I got sent was that my father wanted a high prestige party when I was 13 (so he could invite his friends) and kids in Hebrew School got the coveted Saturday bar mitzvah slots. He was more interested in running the Mens Club and starting a boy scout troop than religion, and his mother was observant.

[Voyager]

Note that the title of the thread is: "...Would you raise your children religious?" It's hypothetical.
True. But those of us who have done it might be a bit more believable than those who haven't.

[Malthus]

I went to Hebrew School for five years (even after my bar mitzvah) and it didn't affect me. I agree that it is mostly a cultural thing, since if you are born into it you're there. We learned history (some real, but starting at Abraham - they didn't pretend the first part of Genesis was real history) and mostly Hebrew so you could read your bar mitzvah portion. The very first story we read was about how Abraham was skeptical and disproved the idols when he was a child in Ur. Now that lesson took. :)

A lot of Protestants I know change religions more often than some people change underwear, since the differences aren't that great. It's a bit more serious for us.

However, the real reason I got sent was that my father wanted a high prestige party when I was 13 (so he could invite his friends) and kids in Hebrew School got the coveted Saturday bar mitzvah slots. He was more interested in running the Mens Club and starting a boy scout troop than religion, and his mother was observant.

I'd be wrong to say it didn't affect me - it gave me a lifelong love for archaeology, and in particular the archaeology of the Middle East. I just found it endlessly fascinating that all that stuff in the Bible referred to events and myths that were so old, as growing up in Toronto, everything seemed so new.

[ForumBot]

Absolutely not. I would be a bit disappointed if they went in the religion direction, too.

[begbert2]

Not that I'm ever going to have kids, but if circumtances were such that I did, it would depend significantly on the inclinations of my wife. The woman I love is religious; in fact religious differences (as far as I can tell) are all that's stopping her from being willing to marry me, in part for the express reason that she would want to present a unified front in indoctrinating the kids. So, if she outgrew her other religion-based objections but somehow kept that one, I would allow her to brainwash the kids however she liked with the bare minimum of interference that I could constrain myself to (with the caveat of course that I would not myself participate). The goal in this scenario would be to preserve the marriage, and to that end I'd be willing to sacrifice my kids to ignorance and superstition. (After all, I can't be a passive beacon of reason and rational thought if I'm not there, can I?)

In a situation where I was able to act entirely on my own preferences, of course I wouldn't steep my children in that garbage. I'm not a liar by nature, and so wouldn't be able to brainwash the poor kids properly anyway, even if I had any rational reason whatsoever to do so, which I don't.

That said, I would still celebrate Christmas and to a lesser degree Easter, sheerly for the fact that 1) they're fun, and 2) all the good parts are secular anyway. I'd of course throw out all the superfluous religious rubbish in my presentation of them, though when the kids asked what everybody else was talking about, I'd tell them, the same way I'd tell them what I know about religion when the subject came up. I'd be frank about my atheism and inform them flat-out of what's true, what's not true, and what's "santa-claus-level" true (ie you can't totally disprove it, but come on now).

If my kid ever expressed a desire to attend a church, I'd be as supportive and helpful as if they asked me to buy cigarettes for them - I'd refuse and attempt to get them to rethink their decision. These tactics might change as they got older and if I ever got less lazy; I don't know if I'd ever get so unlazy that I'd drive them out there myself, but certainly if they're able to drive themselves, then I wouldn't try to stop them. (I would not let friends or family try to take them if the kid's too young to drive; such people wouldn't offer if they didn't have brainwashing on the agenda.)

Needless to say, I'd be unhappy if my spawn joined the ranks of the religious faithful.

[Unauthorized Cinnamon]

By the time I was nearly completely out of the darkness regarding heaven and hell, I had started to panic at the concept of an everlasting heaven! An everlasting conciousness in any form freaked me out.This is where I was. I never really worried about going to hell, having been taught a pretty soft-pedal brand of Catholicism, but the mere idea of existing consciously for eternity wigged my shit right out. Then ironically when I rejected the idea of an afterlife, I got all panicky over facing the fact of not being someday. All around, it sucked.

When my four year old asked what it meant to die, I told her straight up what I think to be the truth - you just stop, you have no thoughts or feelings anymore, and your body stops working completely. It clearly is something she's wrestling with these days, asking when her grandmother will die and stuff, but I think it's easier on her if she just integrates the naturalistic explanation from the get go.

And that brings me to my answer - no, I would not raiser her in a religion, nor would I be as neutral as many in this thread. For me, it's impossible to avoid incidental indoctrination because, as in the situation above, I'm not going to say, "Well, some people believe this, and some believe that, but I believe t'other." I'm just going to answer her questions as honestly as possible. (And that does include the fact that no one can disprove the existence of a deistic god, and also that I'll love her whether she's more faithless than Dawkins or a devout believer.)

BTW, I am an atheist "godparent" to three Catholic kids in the sense that my (atheist) husband and I are their designated guardians in the event they are orphaned. Some family members stood up as the actual godparents, but we are entrusted with their mortal coils.