What's with the teeth?

[Johnny L.A.]

Living in Southern California most of my life, I didn't see many people with bad teeth. I moved up here near the Canadian border in 2003. There was a girl (about 20 or 21) at the gas station/mini-mart who was missing her front teeth. Her canines didn't look so great. (She eventually got false teeth.) A couple of guys at the same mini-mart are missing teeth. There's a girl there now, in her early-20s, whose teeth seem to be rotting. A woman in her 40s who works there is working on making some black pegs. My local gun dealer, who lives in a nice middle-class tract, has some black in a couple of his teeth. My ex-fiancée, when she was living in Aberdeen and Hoquiam, once lamented that she wished she could find a guy with a driver's license and all his teeth.

This is a rural area, and meth labs have been found. There was a lab a couple of blocks away from here a few years ago. I don't know if the people at the mini-mart use or have used meth, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. The older woman there? Maybe that would surprise me; but I usually don't associate women who look like middle-aged mothers with being drug users.

In 2005 there was a push to have fluoride added to the water supply. The initiative failed. (Communists, Government Plots, Rampant Cancer... :rolleyes: I had frequent fluoride treatments when I was a kid, and look how I turned out!) Maybe people up here just aren't all that big on oral hygiene?

It's just weird that I'm seeing so many people with black teeth. What's going on?

[Shagnasty]

You mentioned two of the bad culprits: lack of fluoride and meth. The rural area part may have something to do with it but I grew up in a very poor rural area of Louisiana and youngish people did not generally have bad teeth. The very poor black population took pride in their teeth for example with gold fillings which may not appeal to all but they were an indication of care. I only knew a couple of younger people that had horrific teeth and they were straight out of Deliverance. Bad hygiene there was just as unacceptable there as it is in any major city although the styles were often different. Of course, I think if I went back today, lots of teeth would be destroyed by meth use just like they are in most rural areas.

Fluoride has been a huge gain though. Older people in all areas had some pretty horrific dental problems by today's standards. Some had the money for a natural looking fixes and others just had them all pulled and went straight to dentures. I don't see the aging baby boomers resorting to that as a general rule. Dentistry has advanced as fast as the rest of medicine although it can be pricey because most medical plans don't cover dentistry.

[Purgatory Creek]

I've been noticing the blackened tooth stump/missing tooth thing more in people in recent years around here. (I'm in the upper Midwest.) I think some of it is meth, some of it is rampant soda drinking--especially Mountain Dew--and some of it may be the difficulty of finding a dentist willing to treat you if you don't have insurance and/or ready cash.

As far as I know--and this is secondhand, for the most part--most city water is fluoridated in my area, but rural kids either take fluoride pills or go without.

[AuntiePam]

It's just weird that I'm seeing so many people with black teeth. What's going on?

Probably meth. And the cost of dental care. It's expensive, and if you're working in a mini mart, you don't have dental insurance.

I think bad teeth is one of those things that happen gradually. It sneaks up on you, like chin whiskers on women, or nose hair on old men. After awhile, you don't notice. When you do notice, maybe you try to hide it by not smiling.

When I was in grade school (before fluoridation), we couldn't get our final report cards until we went to the dentist. Seems like teeth were healthier in the 50's, when soda pop was still a treat rather than something we drink all day long.

[Johnny L.A.]

rural kids either take fluoride pills or go without.
Pills? When I was a kid the dentist would fill these little troughs with a fluoride gel and put them over my teeth. Some would invariably ooze out the back and make me gag. I'm glad he did it though.

[Stranger On A Train]

"It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works." -- General Jack D. Ripper, Commander of Burpleson Air Force Base

Curiously, despite the persistant and pernecious fluoridation of water, the Commies didn't, in fact, take over.

I'm going to guess a lack of supplementary fluoridation (still not found in many Northern areas), subpar dental hygiene, and an increase in fructose- and sucrose-sweetened foods and drinks into the diet of children are the culprits. The use of methamphetamines also tends to result in tooth decay and gum disease, but that tends to show up in more long-term users and is accompanied by other physical symptoms, like jaundice, chronic shakes, and face/arm sores (from continuous scratching). The relative poverty of rural areas and the dearth of dental practice in those same areas is also a contributor. I noticed the same thing as the o.p. when I had to spend some time in central coastal Virginia; the better educated imports (NASA and Navy personnel) tended to have "normal" dental health, while the life-long residents displayed an abnormal (to me) amount of missing, stained, or damaged teeth.

Stranger

[Boyo Jim]

... but I usually don't associate women who look like middle-aged mothers with being drug users....

She's probably 14 and looks like a middle aged mom because she's a junkie.

[freckafree]

My home state of West Virginia, according to a study a few years ago, leads the nation in toothlessness (which, for purposes of the study, was the percentage of people 65 or older who had lost all their teeth. Hawaii's rate was 14%. WV's was 48%.) I hate it when statistics confirm a stereotype.

Anyhoo, when I visit WV, I am always struck by the number of people I see who have really bad teeth -- not just blackened or missing, but problems that look like something that orthodontia could have prevented.

Count me as another vote for lack of fluoride and the cost of dental care as the main reason for bad teeth.

[Crafter_Man]

On the same topic, I am amazed at how many of my coworkers have problems with their teeth. And they're professionals.

I think one the biggest problem is that a lot of people don't use dental floss on a daily basis. As you get older, cavities usually become less of a problem while gum disease becomes more of a problem. Hence flossing becomes more important as you get older.

I am a compulsive flosser; I floss two or three times a day. I am completely convinced that flossing is the sole reason I do not have major dental problems. I sometimes think flossing is even more important than brushing.

[Johnny L.A.]

My home state of West Virginia, according to a study a few years ago, leads the nation in toothlessness
Hm. I would have guessed Alabama, where the tusks are looser.

[nashiitashii]

Living in Southern California most of my life, I didn't see many people with bad teeth.
<snip>
It's just weird that I'm seeing so many people with black teeth. What's going on?

I must admit that I didn't really encounter too many people with bad/black teeth until I started being more directly exposed to people in lower social strata than my own. (I was in high school, middle class, and going to school with kids whose parents made three times what my mom made in a year-- I was one of the poor kids, and my mom makes good money!) Most of the kids who were poorer that I had encountered during high school had good teeth, but there were a handful of reasons why some of them had bad teeth: drug use, lack of orthodontic intervention, excessive smoking, and really terrible overall hygeine. Drug use was the worst culprit, really, especially if the kids were into things like meth. Smoking was next if combined with bad diet (lots of sugar and stuff like twinkies) and bad oral hygeine, but it was a marked difference between the two, as the kids who just smoked and didn't take care of themselves just had yellow teeth with a small amount of decay at the worst (http://www.leeds.ac.uk/lsmp/healthadvice/Smoking/Image5.jpg), and the kids who were into meth (and other stuff) had teeth that were literally rotting (http://www.dentalcare.com/soap/ce19ej/graphics/perio.gif) most of the time. However, I have seen relatively well-off kids with similar tooth problems of the "tobacco and sugar" sort if they don't keep up with preventative maintenance or smoke like a chimney.

Speaking of awful teeth, I encountered someone at the library the other day who had itty bitty baby teeth that were shattered and blackening from the inside out. If she had never opened her mouth, she would have looked reasonably well taken care of if a bit unhealthy weight-wise. However, once her mouth opened to display the teeth, it became a slightly disturbing visage-- so bad, in fact, that I cannot Google an image that accurately displays the amount of decay that this individual had. It would be as if the teeth were transparent but filled with black tar and jagged edged. These, by far, were the worst teeth I had ever seen in my entire life.

[Jennshark]

I lived in rural Ohio (near the WV border) for a few years and was shocked at the number of people who were missing teeth and/or had visible tooth decay. It did seem, however, that younger adults' teeth were better.

Poverty and McJobs = no useful dental insurance.

[Shagnasty]

Poverty and McJobs = no useful dental insurance.

To be fair, dental insurance has always been pretty rare. I have it because I work for a mega-corp and pay dearly for it for our family but it doesn't work the same way as medical insurance and just offers a discount past preventive care. Even countries like England that have socialized health programs don't cover dentistry in the same way (that is why they have the bad teeth stereotypes). It is really odd that the mouth and teeth got segregated from the rest of the body when research shows that dental health is crucial to the rest of physical health from the heart to the brain. Dentists are no different from other physician specialists and should be treated the same way when it comes to insurance.

[Justin Credible]

Dental Plan!

[Rick]

My home state of West Virginia, according to a study a few years ago, leads the nation in toothlessness (which, for purposes of the study, was the percentage of people 65 or older who had lost all their teeth. Hawaii's rate was 14%. WV's was 48%.) I hate it when statistics confirm a stereotype.

Anyhoo, when I visit WV, I am always struck by the number of people I see who have really bad teeth -- not just blackened or missing, but problems that look like something that orthodontia could have prevented.

Count me as another vote for lack of fluoride and the cost of dental care as the main reason for bad teeth.
It's a little known fact but the toothbrush was invented in West Virgina. How do I know this? It should be obvious, if it had been invented anywhere else, it would be called a teethbrush.


Thank you, don't forget to tip the waiter.

[interface2x]

Dental Plan!
"Lisa needs braces!"

[RickJay]

I'm going to guess a lack of supplementary fluoridation (still not found in many Northern areas), subpar dental hygiene, and an increase in fructose- and sucrose-sweetened foods and drinks into the diet of children are the culprits.
Do you think kids eat sweeter diets than they did, say, 40 or 50 years ago? I really doubt it, at least with respect to going as far back as the Baby Boomer generation; my parents claim that, if anything, they ate a LOT more unhealthily that I did. Sugar, sugar sugar has been the word in kid food since the end of World War II.

I'd also guess that teeth on the whole are BETTER than they were then too. even in rural areas; the OP's just moved from a richer place to a poorer place, and so there's going to be a contrast there. But there would have been a contrast before, too.

And to support Shagnasty's point about dental insurance, in Canada our famed social health insurance system doesn't cover dentistry. You can have a doctor look at almost any problem you have at no cost... but to have a dentist check you out you need private insurance or cold cash. I will be damned if I understand why, but that's the way it is, and my perception is certainly that people in poor areas have worse teeth than in better off areas.

[Purgatory Creek]

Originally Posted by RickJay
Do you think kids eat sweeter diets than they did, say, 40 or 50 years ago?

The difference between my generation (I arrived at the tail-end of the baby boom) and the generation of my nieces and nephews is staggering, actually. Part of that may be economic; we were pretty poor. However, our mother also expressly forbid pop and chewing gum, and any kind of candy or ice cream was a very rare treat on a holiday. Thanks to her, none of us developed a soda habit, but my brothers' children sure picked one up somewhere! They can't live without soda. They get cranky and headachy if they run out. They also eat a lot more sugary snacks than we did.

I think they eat a healthier diet than we did as far as fat content and general nutrient value goes, but I think the sugar content is much higher, and this probably accounts for not only some of the dental problems but also some of the obesity we're seeing so often in kids.

[ralph124c]

My dentist spent some time in the US Air Force, as a dentist. He told me that he could tell what part of the country a recruit was from ,by looking at his teeth. Those kids from the SW (where naturally occurring fluoride levels are high) had mottled, yellowe dteeth-but no cavities. But the amount of sugar kids consume today is staggering-when I was a kid, we only drank soft drinks on special occasions-these kids drink a quart of the stuff a day now. That can't be good for your teeth.

[FourPaws]

I hate teeth, well, not teeth necessarily, but having to deal with something that no matter how much care you give them, eventually they wear out / need crowns / other sorts of help.

If it wasn't such a pain, I'd have all mine pulled and get dentures.

My dad always took care of his teeth. Always. Still had crowns, root canals, etc. Probably spent at least 60k on his teeth to get them fixed the last five years of his life, the last visit was 5k in bills a month before he passed away.

I love my dentist (the same as his) but it's such an absurd amount of money to allow you to chew food without pain and look good.

[BoBettie]

Well, even with insurance, I needed 2 root canals and crowns on molars, which was going to be about $500/tooth. Extraction was $50. Guess which one I had to do? So I have 2 teeth missing (thankfully not visible) until I can afford implants. And that was WITH insurance. I'll never understand why dentistry is so damned expensive and barely covered on insurance.

[freckafree]

It would be as if the teeth were transparent but filled with black tar and jagged edged. These, by far, were the worst teeth I had ever seen in my entire life.

When I have tooth nightmares, what you just described is what I see when I look in the mirror at my mouth. :eek: ::shudder::

Thanks a lot, nashiitashiie. If I have tooth nightmares tonight, I'm blaming you!

[Skara_Brae]

I love my dentist (the same as his) but it's such an absurd amount of money to allow you to chew food without pain and look good.

I am no sure about you, but being able to eat without pain is one of the major factors in my quality of life, worth quite a bit....

[vison]

Hm. I would have guessed Alabama, where the tusks are looser. :smack: :dubious: :D

[FourPaws]

I am no sure about you, but being able to eat without pain is one of the major factors in my quality of life, worth quite a bit....

Hence why not spend the money for dentures and not deal with the dentist? I'm willing to spend money on my choppers, but at some point it just seems a waste. Kind of like trying to keep an old car on the road. At what point do you give up and get something new?

[Skara_Brae]

Hence why not spend the money for dentures and not deal with the dentist? I'm willing to spend money on my choppers, but at some point it just seems a waste. Kind of like trying to keep an old car on the road. At what point do you give up and get something new?

Well, from what I have heard from people with dentures, they really are not a panacea to the problem. Lots of people have trouble with them, and because they block out part of the top of your mouth, food loses some of its taste. My grandmother lost about 20 pounds after she got hers, because she cannot eat as many things as she used to and it does not taste as good (or so she says). Going by that, I am devoted to keeping as much as I can of my teeth for as long as I can.

[DMark]

My SO has pretty good insurance, and even a decent dental plan, from his job.
He had to have partial dentures below, and full dentures above...total cost to us, after insurance: $13,000!
That doesn't include the extra visits he has had to make in the past two years since.

How many of you have an extra $13,000 laying around the house to have a set of dentures made for you?

[DMark]

Well, from what I have heard from people with dentures, they really are not a panacea to the problem. Lots of people have trouble with them, and because they block out part of the top of your mouth, food loses some of its taste. My grandmother lost about 20 pounds after she got hers, because she cannot eat as many things as she used to and it does not taste as good (or so she says). Going by that, I am devoted to keeping as much as I can of my teeth for as long as I can.

We had heard that too, but my SO claims it is not true. Food tastes good, and he has kept up his appetite and there is not a thing he cannot eat. Then again, for the money we paid, I would sincerely hope so....

[freckafree]

Hence why not spend the money for dentures and not deal with the dentist?

As my sister's dentist told her, "Dentures are not an alternative to teeth. They are an alternative to no teeth."

[neutron star]

We had heard that too, but my SO claims it is not true. Food tastes good, and he has kept up his appetite and there is not a thing he cannot eat. Then again, for the money we paid, I would sincerely hope so....

This has been my experience. After growing up with genetically lousy teeth, a soda habit, and poor brushing habits, I got dentures at 21.

Every ridiculous scare story that dentists told me turned out to be utter BS. I can eat anything except extremely sticky stuff like taffy and gum, things don't have any less taste, and I certainly didn't lose any weight because of the things.

I didn't even get the expensive dentures, either. They're the middle-of-the-road variety, about $750-1000 for a full set. I'm 29 now and they still fit fine. No complaints whatsoever.

I actually wish the dentists hadn't contiuously lied through their teeth (heh) about them and scared me away so I could have gotten them even sooner instead of having to deal with the unspeakable pain I had to endure during those last couple of years that I had real teeth.

[neutron star]

My SO has pretty good insurance, and even a decent dental plan, from his job.
He had to have partial dentures below, and full dentures above...total cost to us, after insurance: $13,000!
That doesn't include the extra visits he has had to make in the past two years since.

How many of you have an extra $13,000 laying around the house to have a set of dentures made for you?

Jesus Christ! Are they diamond encrusted?! I think my procedure was around $2000 for the dentures and extraction combined. They didn't charge me for the half-dozen or so follow-up visits. This was without insurance, BTW.

When I lost my upper set (long, drunken story), I went to a place that specialized in dentures to have them replaced, since I no longer lived in the same state as my old dentist. Cost me $350. That was in 2006.

[Broomstick]

I actually wish the dentists hadn't contiuously lied through their teeth (heh) about them and scared me away so I could have gotten them even sooner instead of having to deal with the unspeakable pain I had to endure during those last couple of years that I had real teeth.
Consider the possibility that while your dentures may have been preferable to your original (defective) teeth in your case, they might not be superior to a truly health set of natural teeth.

My mother says her dentures are nowhere near as good as when she had healthy teeth, but when she got her teeth pulled (because they were falling out and her gums were rotting) she said the dentures were better than the horrible pain she'd been having for several years prior to that time. She also started eating better after she got her dentures (finally) fitted and adjusted because they were functioning better as teeth than the loose nasties she had had just prior to extraction.

Which, to my mind, is when a person should get dentures. You shouldn't get dentures to replace HEALTHY teeth, you should get them when dentures would function/feel better than teeth that aren't healthy and can't reasonably be repaired.

[neutron star]

Well, considering the effort and cost of upkeep, I really do prefer the dentures. I don't have to worry about yellowing, I don't have to worry about flossing (I just take 'em out and rinse them in the sink if something gets stuck), and I haven't felt even a tiny bit of pain in my mouth in years. It's fantastic! :cool:

[Solfy]

My husband is embarrassed by his lower teeth, which are clean and white and crooked as all get out. Fiscal irresponsibility on the part of his father growing up meant that the money dried up after they fixed the top teeth but before the bottom ones. He's still rather bitter.

I, on the other hand, never darkened the door of a dentist until I was 16 (when we finally got insurance). No dental insurance plus a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude on the part of my parents. I have great teeth, or so says my current dentist. Not a filling or a bad one in the bunch. She attributes it to fluoridated water and my tendency not to eat many sweets.

Fluorine and money are your teeth's friends.

[RickJay]

The difference between my generation (I arrived at the tail-end of the baby boom) and the generation of my nieces and nephews is staggering, actually. Part of that may be economic; we were pretty poor. However, our mother also expressly forbid pop and chewing gum, and any kind of candy or ice cream was a very rare treat on a holiday. Thanks to her, none of us developed a soda habit, but my brothers' children sure picked one up somewhere! They can't live without soda. They get cranky and headachy if they run out. They also eat a lot more sugary snacks than we did.

I think they eat a healthier diet than we did as far as fat content and general nutrient value goes, but I think the sugar content is much higher, and this probably accounts for not only some of the dental problems but also some of the obesity we're seeing so often in kids.
I hate to trot out this old mantra, but anecdote isn't he plural of data. My experience is precisely the opposite; I ate terribly as a kid, and my kid (and other children I know) eat far less sugar and pop. They're banning soda machines in high schools; when I was in high school I practically lived on Coke out of the pop machine. When I was a kid, every kid's allowance pretty much existed to keep them in candy.

I read an article in the National Post last year in which a columnist/mother talked about how her daughter's friends were amazed they had sweets and pop in their house; in most of their homes such things were limited, if not nonexistent.

You're blaming two problems on worsening diets - obesity and dental problems - but I don't buy the second problem is actually increasing. Again, the OP moved from a richer placeto a poorer place. I've seen no evidence that dental problems are getting worse now, over time, than they were before. It's certainly my subjective impression that older people have horrible teeth but that's not meaningful evidence; however, absent evidence to the contrary, I have to assume that dental problems are not increasing.

I DO agree obesity is a problem; however, it's not necessarily the case that this is the result of more sweets. It could simply be that children are less physically active than they once were. Again, that fits my subjective impressions, for what that's worth, which isn't much, but it's a perfectly reasonable alternative hypothesis.