Jewish Jokes [When are they appropriate? Other ethnic or religious jokes?]

[cainxinth]

I stumbled upon this thread: Heard any good jokes lately? (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451599) a couple days ago. I was reading through some good and bad and mostly harmless jokes, primarily of the dick and fart variety, lowbrow but not terrifically offensive, when I read a post with a Jewish joke.

The thing is I’m Jewish, I’ve heard and told a million Jewish jokes. I think they are funny. But it’s only funny when we are telling them in close company. If we want to collectively laugh at ourselves and point out our less than favorable stereotypes I think we or any other group has that right.

It’s not so funny to hear others make the very same jokes because they may not know as acutely where the stereotype ends and reality begins. When a perfect stranger and gentile tells me a joke about how Jews like money I have no way of knowing how seriously he takes that proposition. Maybe he knows a ton of Jews and doesn’t really believe that’s the case at all, but maybe he doesn’t. And that’s why it uncomfortable for me to hear.

Adding to this was the fact that the joke was taken from a movie about anti-Semitism. The whole thing just struck me as totally poor taste. I try not to be easily offended, but I just couldn’t believe this went unnoticed in the thread, so I posted back expressing my dissatisfaction. The response by multiple posters was that I had overreacted and that I should just lighten up. I responded again that I still thought that the joke shouldn’t have been posted and was told the same.

I think it’s crap.

If the thread was called “Racist Jokes” and everyone was tossing them out there maybe, maybe, I could see it being okay. At least that way everyone knows the jokes are offensive. But don’t sit there any tell me that jokes about Cinderella giving head and Bubbles being the neighbor's dog is the same as a joke about Jews being greedy.

[tomndebb]

Would you like this moved to the BBQ Pit or to IMHO?

I'm sure that we can get people arguing over this topic, but as posted it does not appear to have an actual debate topic.


[ /Modding ]

[cainxinth]

Would you like this moved to the BBQ Pit or to IMHO?

I'm sure that we can get people arguing over this topic, but as posted it does not appear to have an actual debate topic.


[ /Modding ]

I considered that but I figured not enough cursing for the pit, too serious for IMHO. The debate as I saw it was whether Jewish jokes are in the same league as dick and fart jokes or not. If you think it belongs somewhere else feel free to move it.

[tomndebb]

The debate as I saw it was whether Jewish jokes are in the same league as dick and fart jokes or not.Based on this presentation, I would guess it belongs in Cafe Society as an exploration of forms of humor.

I'll move it with an expanded title.

[ /Modding ]

[treis]

Meh, you gotta turn down your offense-o-meter a bit if you ask me.

[Krokodil]

Okay, here's my rationale for enjoying ethnic humor:

Jokes boil down to a recognition of human foibles. Any joke I can tell about you, you can tell an equivalent one about me. It would be churlish of me to tell a joke making fun of crippled or retarded people, I guess, but to claim that your group should somehow be excluded or protected is to put yourself in the same class as cripples and retards. And let's face it, being Jewish has more in common with being Irish or Italian or Black than it does with being paraplegic or autistic.

Elie Wiesel once described antisemitism as "ultimately approving of the ovens." The jokes in question in the other thread (that I saw; I only got about halfway through it) hardly qualify.

Q: What's the difference between a Jewish wife and an Italian wife?
A: The Italian wife has fake diamonds and real orgasms.

Look, you're part of the American fabric, or you aren't. You decide. But remember, the jokes you tell about goys and shvartzers get back to the rest of us eventually.

[Argent Towers]

What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza?

A Jew can feed a family of four.

[Rick]

Several years ago, I traveled to Sweden to attend a conference. Due to a scheduling whoops, I was with guys from Europe, not my coworkers from the US. I hung out with the instructor from Poland.
Over dinner, we would tell each other jokes we knew.
Damn if he didn't know just about the same exact jokes as I did only with a different cast of characters.
Dumb Polack = dumb Russian
Greedy Jew = Greedy German
etc etc.
It was interesting to hear his take on some Polish jokes. :D FTR he thought they were hilarious. (The problem was finding one he did not already know as a dumb Russian joke)
My advice is turn down the offense meter. Or go listen to Don Rickles do a show.

Argent there is one other difference, but I'm not going there. :eek:

[Sage Rat]

What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza?

A Jew can feed a family of four.
I heard that as "Mexican" and "can't". The one with Jews concluded with a note on ovens and screaming.

[Krokodil]

Jokes about other religions:

A Lutheran walks into a bar. Bartender sez "I'm sorry, we don't serve Lutherans in this bar. The Lutheran replies "How about some food then? I've been on a strict Diet of Worms!"

A Catholic walks into a bar. Bartender sez "I'm sorry, we don't serve Catholics in this bar." The Catholic grabs his crotch and says "Eat of this, for this is my body."

A Baptist walks into a bar. The bartender says "Hold on, Billy Bob. Before you come in here, you need to know that there's some drinking and gambling going on in here, and probably some sex going on in the back room." The Baptist looks around and says "Alright, as long as there's no dancing..."

A Unitarian walks into a bar. Bartender sez "We don't serve Unitarians in this bar." The Unitarian replies "Well, that's just one more thing I don't seriously believe."

An Episcopal Woman named Alice
Once peed in a Catholic Chalice
She said "I do this
From a great need to piss
And not from sectarian malice!"

A Quaker walks into a really rowdy bar. Bartender sez "Sorry, we don't serve Quakers in this bar." The Quaker replies "Fuck thee."

[kambuckta]

I work with a number of Jewish people, and the women especially are always at great guns to tell (or email) me the latest Jewish joke going around.

However, I too have noticed that if I (or any other gentile) tries to tell THEM a Jewish joke, it is met with the traditional pursed lips and half-closed eyes indicating extreme displeasure at our crass affrontery. :rolleyes:

It's all about stereotypes, of the race, ethnicity, religion or cultural practices. It's what jokes are made of. If you can laugh at yourself, why the hell are you pissed-off when others join in the laughter?

And if you can't laugh at yourself, there's something wrong with you.

Get over yourself/ves, whether you're Jewish, Irish, Polish, Australian or whatever.

We're all human beings, and we deserve nothing more than to be ridiculed......a lot.

:rolleyes:

[panache45]

Having been raised Jewish, I understand the OP's point of view. But when I'm around my extended family, I hear a few of them still refer to blacks as "schvartzes," and that tems is never used in a complimentary context. But they all know I'm gay, and at least they know not to tell a gay joke in my presence (not that I would mind it, so long as it's not about AIDS).

By the same token, I don't mind the jokes about Jewish stereotypes (and yes, it does matter who's telling them), but I will not stand for jokes about the Holocaust (unless of course they're anti-Hitler jokes).

So lay off the AIDS and Holocaust jokes; the rest I can deal with.

[Eureka]

I think there is a strong argument to be made that Jewish and other ethnic or religous jokes are exactly like dick and fart jokes in terms of when they should be told--only to an audience that won't be upset by them.

Different people have different standards, and the "I can tell jokes about X because I'm one of them" notion annoys me more than a little. I don't particularly care for most ethnic jokes(or dick and fart jokes for that matter), and knowing that you are of the ethnicity you are insulting doesn't magically make the joke funny rather than obnoxious.

So how do you tell whether your audience will be upset? That can be tricky. At some level, I guess you start at the more or less innocuous and wait for a reaction. And some people really do believe that it's ok to tell jokes about their own group that they don't appreciate from outsiders, I just generally don't find such jokes appealling.

[HazelNutCoffee]

People need to lighten up.

My close circle of (mostly white) friends tell inappropriate jokes all the time - especially Asian jokes. Like, really, really crass Asian jokes involving horizontal vaginas. I laugh. However, if a random stranger came up to me and told me the same joke, I'd probably slap them. For me the line is not based on whether that person is an "insider" or not; it's how well we know each other. Like how you can tell a close friend to shut up in an affectionate way, but if you did that to a stranger they'd be offended.

If I were ever to be truly offended, my friends would stop - but if I were the type of person to be offended, we probably wouldn't be friends in the first place.

[astorian]

A lot depends on the tone of the joke and the aim of the teller.

Is the teller's underlying attitude "I know you and like you, and here's a joke I know you're going to appreciate" or "I know is going to offend you, but screw you if you can't take a joke"?

I know the people I can safely tell ethnic/religious/risque jokes to, and most likely, you know the people you can tell them to. If there's doubt in your mind, don't tell them.

And if you guess wrong, APOLOGIZE sincerely and immediately. Don't dare tell a joke you KNOW may be offensive and then insist arrogantly that the offended party is the one with a problem.

[Manda JO]

The school I teach at is very diverse: like Eastern European and African refugees next to Hispanics from every Spanish-speaking country next to African-Americans next to old money Jewish and WASP families: the only groups that are thinly represented are the middle classes of any race--they are in the suburbs--and Asians, for whatever reason.

It's an atmosphere that really encourages racial/ethnic/class-related joking around because everyone is a minority--less telling formal jokes and more just joking around with each other. The patterns I see arise among the kids with their friends is that almost anything is ok if it's funny. Jokes that are just restating a stereotype are treated as in poor taste and like someone is trying to hard to be cool. Anything is ok if it shows cleverness and wit. Nothing is ok if it's lame and predictable.

Among people that are not your friends, it's in poor taste and usually gets rolly eyes, either because the person is trying to be mean, which is stupid, or they are presuming intimacy that isn't there--which is something clique-ish high school kids love to punish each other for.

[Dinsdale]

Ya know why my last name ends in "ski"?
Because my ancestors couldn't spell toboggan!

I appreciate all manner of tasteless jokes involving dumb polacks, greedy jews, lazy mexicans, dead babies, what have you. But I will refrain from telling a specific joke to a person if I have any reason to suspect they will be be offended by it (or if I care that they are offended.)

No, IMO jewish jokes are not inherently more or less offensive than any others. I personally am more wary of jews or blacks taking offense at jokes than - say - Poles or Italians.

[WordMan]

I just got this joke sent to me this morning; pretty funny given this thread. I hope it is adequately universal in its abuse of stereotypes that it is simply seen as silly - and hopefully a bit funny. In terms of basic thinking on this issue, I am inclined to go with astorian's POV...


On a chain of beautiful deserted islands in the middle of South Pacific, the following people are stranded:

Two Italian men and one Italian woman.

Two French men and one French woman.

Two German men and one German woman.

Two Greek men and one Greek woman.

Two British men and one British woman.

Two Bulgarian men and one Bulgarian woman.

Two Japanese men and one Japanese woman.

Two Chinese men and one Chinese woman.

Two Irish men and one Irish woman.

Two American men and one American woman.

One month later, on these absolutely stunning deserted islands in the
middle of nowhere, the following things have occurred:

One Italian man killed the other Italian man for the Italian woman.

The two French men and the French woman are living happily together in a
menage a trois.

The two German men have a strict weekly schedule of alternating visits
with the German woman.

The two Greek men are sleeping together and the Greek woman is cooking
and cleaning for them.

The two British men are waiting for someone to introduce them to the
British woman.

The two Bulgarian men took one look at the Bulgarian woman and started
swimming to another island.

The two Japanese have faxed Tokyo and are awaiting instructions.

The two Chinese men have set up a pharmacy, liquor store, restaurant,
and laundry, and have got the woman pregnant in order to supply more
employees for their businesses.

The two Irish men divided the island into north and south and set up a
distillery. They do not remember if sex is in the picture because it
gets somewhat foggy after a few pints of coconut whisky. However,
they're satisfied because the British aren't having any fun. The Irish
woman has taken vows and become a nun.

The two American men are contemplating suicide, because the American
woman will not shut up and complains relentlessly about her body, the
true nature of feminism, what the sun is doing to her skin, how she can
do anything they can do, the necessity of fulfillment, the equal
division of household chores, how sand and palm trees make her look fat,
how her last boyfriend respected her opinion and treated her nicer than
they do, and how her relationship with her mother is the root cause of
all her problems, and why didn't they bring a damn cell phone so they
could call 911 and get them all rescued off this forsaken deserted
island in the middle of freaking nowhere so she can get her nails done
and go shopping.

[Argent Towers]

I heard that as "Mexican" and "can't". The one with Jews concluded with a note on ovens and screaming.

Yeah it was my very feeble attempt at combining two ethnic jokes to make a nonsensical and therefore ironically humorous joke. It seems to have failed. Moving right along...

What do you call a Jew who graduated at the bottom of his class in medical school?

"Doctor."

[gonzomax]

http://www.thejesusmyth.com/the-truth-about-religion.htm
Religious humor to be effective needs a bit of truth.

[Contrapuntal]

People need to lighten up.

My close circle of (mostly white) friends tell inappropriate jokes all the time - especially Asian jokes. Like, really, really crass Asian jokes involving horizontal vaginas.That is stupid.

They're slanted, right?

[Hippy Hollow]

My rule is joking about something people can control - being a fan of a particular team, liking a certain type of music, etc. - generally are fair game in a joke.

I have a fairly diverse group of friends, and I've heard my share of ethnic jokes, usually about the speaker's ethnic group. I don't make an issue of it, and I smile if it's funny, but I don't go too far with it.

Out of respect for me (I imagine), I don't hear many jokes about Black people around me from other Black people, though I do hear stereotypes jokingly referenced by other Black folks - and I sometimes do this myself. I just think that jokes about your ethnicity told by others outside of that group is disrespectful and a really weird way of showing familiarity.

The other issue with that is you have people like one guy I know. He's married to a Latina and is pretty active, like her, in community affairs. (He's White, btw.) He's definitely an ally, but he also feels the need to drop some risque or inappropriate joke when he's in a group of Latinos. Now, it works out okay because most of the time, there's someone in the group who knows his wife, and his work in the community. But then you have situations like when a colleague of mine went to lunch and didn't know his backstory, and thought he was a racist and a jerk. My colleague now knows about the other guy's activism and so on, but I think he respects him a little less because he seriously overestimated the amount of respect he'd get because he married a Latina.

[Argent Towers]

Oh and Wordman, you forgot one group:

The two Jewish men dig for buried treasure and find a chest of gold. They distribute it around and create a small gold-coin based economy, and let the other people on the island borrow small amounts of the Jews' gold.

When the other inhabitants of the island are inevitably late on paying back their debts, the Jews charge interest in the form of other goods, such as food, liquor, coconuts, labor, etc.

Absent that, they have the debtors' legs broken by the Italian guy, who they've hired as an enforcer.

Also, they set up gambling and monkey-races, and rip everyone off. They use all their accumulated wealth to buy the Japanese woman from the Japanese men, who are too preoccupied with their gambling to care.

[Boyo Jim]

I wonder why it is that the only Jewish jokes I hear (besides those about money) are about Jewish women's reluctance to give blow jobs, or a general disinterest in sex. I hear pretty much the same jokes about English women.

[Argent Towers]

I think those jokes (about Jewish women and sex) are eventually going to be anachronistic and bizarre to later generations, just like the archetype of the "Jewish nebbish" is currently being overtaken by the "big, obnoxious, white-baseball-cap wearing, sports-betting Jewish frat guy." Certainly nobody in my generation makes any link between Jewish girls and sexual disinterest.

The jokes about money are never going to go away though.

[monstro]

My rules for funny ethnic jokes

Those that deal with sexual stereotypes (i.e., WASP women are frigid, black guys are well-endowed, etc.)

Those that deal with athleticism, dialect, food, child-rearing, clothing, hairstyles, and religion.

Jokes that tend not to be funny are those deal with stereotypes about criminality/immorality, inferior intelligence, and inferior work ethic.

[cainxinth]

Oh and Wordman, you forgot one group:

The two Jewish men dig for buried treasure and find a chest of gold. They distribute it around and create a small gold-coin based economy, and let the other people on the island borrow small amounts of the Jews' gold.

When the other inhabitants of the island are inevitably late on paying back their debts, the Jews charge interest in the form of other goods, such as food, liquor, coconuts, labor, etc.

Absent that, they have the debtors' legs broken by the Italian guy, who they've hired as an enforcer.

Also, they set up gambling and monkey-races, and rip everyone off. They use all their accumulated wealth to buy the Japanese woman from the Japanese men, who are too preoccupied with their gambling to care.

WTF man. That shit is not funny and its totally offensive. And you're the same guy who repeated the joke from School Ties thinking it was funny. You know I asked around my friends and family and no one could quite believe someone would actually do that. Apparently the consensus on the dope is that it's okay to tell Jew jokes, but it's not with me. I dare you to come to any bar in Manhattan and tell your jokes and see if the crowds there are as cool with it as the sdmb apparently is.

I've tried to be civil about this, but If I hear one more derogatory crack about Jews from you I'm gonna lose it.

[HazelNutCoffee]

Apparently the consensus on the dope is that it's okay to tell Jew jokes
The "consensus" seems to be that any inappropriate joke, be it about Jews or whites or Martians, can be either humorous or offensive depending on the context. You make it sound like the SDMB is endorsing any and all forms of anti-Semitic humor.

I find the attitude of "It's only okay if we do it!" odd. When I crack a joke about how Koreans eat too much lice to my friends, I am implying to them that I'm okay with them doing the same.

Out of curiosity, is it only Argent Tower's joke you find offensive, or do you find WordMan's joke in bad taste as well?

[HazelNutCoffee]

That is stupid.

They're slanted, right?
Wouldn't you like to know? ;)

[HubZilla]

In Hawaii, ethnic jokes are accepted, and often the sole focus of local comedians.

Filipinos: talk funny, marry (way) older men, work in low-status jobs (think of Mexican jokes and insert "Filipino")

Chinese: very cheap, same jokes as Jews. Chinese for cheap is "Pake" and even appeared in a weekly newspaper: the "Pake issue" for cheap eats.

Portuguese (Portagee): stupid, same jokes as Polish

Hawaiian/Samoan: violent, criminal, adverse to working, same jokes as blacks


Japanese and haoles don't get as many jokes. Haoles usually center around being unfamiliar with local culture and pronounciations. Japanese are usually tourist-camera jokes.

There are no black jokes. 1) There are few non-military blacks in Hawaii and 2) it's considered politically incorrect. You can be in a circle exchanging Portagee and Pake jokes, but the moment you add "What do you call a black man that flies an airplane?", instant silence. Odd that.

[cainxinth]

I'm done talking about this. If you guys wanna think that was okay, thats your right. I'm out.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

"What do you call a black man that flies an airplane?"
A pilot, you racist bastard!

(Is there another answer? If there is, it can't possibly be as funny).

Daniel

[Green Bean]

Oh and Wordman, you forgot one group:

The two Jewish men dig for buried treasure and find a chest of gold. They distribute it around and create a small gold-coin based economy, and let the other people on the island borrow small amounts of the Jews' gold.

When the other inhabitants of the island are inevitably late on paying back their debts, the Jews charge interest in the form of other goods, such as food, liquor, coconuts, labor, etc.

Absent that, they have the debtors' legs broken by the Italian guy, who they've hired as an enforcer.

Also, they set up gambling and monkey-races, and rip everyone off. They use all their accumulated wealth to buy the Japanese woman from the Japanese men, who are too preoccupied with their gambling to care.This is remarkably offensive.

The first paragraph isn't so bad. The rest of it...just wow.

Out of curiosity, is it only Argent Tower's joke you find offensive, or do you find WordMan's joke in bad taste as well?
This wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer it. I thought WordMan's joke was in poor taste of course, but it was acceptable because it was pretty funny. And being an American woman, I'm the primary target.

One thing about it, that Argent Towers seems to have missed--it's all nationalities, not racial, ethnic, or religious groups. (In a few cases, the nationality is practically synonymous with racial, ethnic, or religious identity, but it's not as direct as naming those groups directly.)

[HubZilla]

A pilot, you racist bastard!

(Is there another answer? If there is, it can't possibly be as funny).

Daniel

Yep, that was it. I love telling that joke.

[Boyo Jim]

Yep, that was it. I love telling that joke.

There's a zillion WASP jokes just like that one.

[HubZilla]

There's a zillion WASP jokes just like that one.

How many haoles does it take to change a lightbulb?

One.

[HazelNutCoffee]

One thing about it, that Argent Towers seems to have missed--it's all nationalities, not racial, ethnic, or religious groups. (In a few cases, the nationality is practically synonymous with racial, ethnic, or religious identity, but it's not as direct as naming those groups directly.)
Does it make a difference? I'm curious. Is it less offensive to make a joke about Americans than it is about white people or about Christians?

I didn't like Argent Tower's joke, but that's mostly because I didn't find it funny (no offense :p ).

[monstro]

If people are swapping ethnic humor, it should be reciprocal. So if I tell a "black people talk funny" joke, it should be matched with an equally harmless joke from someone of another race/nationality.

It's not as fun if I'm the lone black person in a group of whites, and we're just telling black jokes. If someone tells a black joke, then that should give me permission to tell a whatever-they-are joke.

So that means that people who participate in ethnic humor need to acquire a broad cache of them so that they can be an equal opportunity offender.

This thread is reminding me of that dinner scene in that movie "Guess Who?" Ashton Kuchor's character is entertaining everyone at the table with cute black jokes and then crosses a line where it's not funny anymore. I think if you're going to tell those kind of jokes (especially if you are not a member of that ethnic group), then you really need to be aware of where the line is. But I agree that jokes based on stereotypes can be humorous.

[SkipMagic]

Please remember that this thread is a discussion about when (if ever) ethnic jokes are "appropriate," and not a request for your favorite ethnic joke, or even whether you can come up with a joke even poorer in taste than the examples already given. If the joke doesn't relate to the discussion at hand, please refrain from posting it.

[mswas]

I think if Jews want us to stop telling Jewish jokes they should stop teaching them to us.

[Argent Towers]

I'm pretty sure I've said it in other threads but I'm Jewish. I even remember the Haftorah from my Bar Mitzvah, sort of - it was about some guy named Balaam who rode around on an "ass," which my 12 year old mind found endlessly entertaining.

Green Bean, I'm dumbfounded that you're really that offended by my joke. Jews have traditionally been associated with the practice of lending money. They have a long history of being connected with organized crime, gambling and physically enforcing debts. (Only in America, though - in Europe, when the kings and princes couldn't pay the Jews back, they just killed them.)

The fact that I'm Jewish should not matter at all. In my opinion, humor is the opposite of bigotry. Joking about other peoples' ethnic groups or religions is only offensive if you actually believe the stereotypes that the jokes are making fun of. And I think it's safe to say that none of us here actually believe any of this. That doesn't mean that it can't be fun to play upon historical perceptions of other cultures for laughs.

And mswas is right on the money. There's a reason why the Jews are the kings of comedy. It's because they've had to take more shit, historically, than any other group in Western culture, and after a while they just learned to laugh about it. I think this is a value that everyone should learn. Not that people should put up with disrespect, but that they shouldn't be too thin-skinned.

[Argent Towers]

And HazelNutCoffee, there are two towers, not one.

[appleciders]

WTF man. That shit is not funny and its totally offensive. And you're the same guy who repeated the joke from School Ties thinking it was funny. You know I asked around my friends and family and no one could quite believe someone would actually do that. Apparently the consensus on the dope is that it's okay to tell Jew jokes, but it's not with me. I dare you to come to any bar in Manhattan and tell your jokes and see if the crowds there are as cool with it as the sdmb apparently is.

I've tried to be civil about this, but If I hear one more derogatory crack about Jews from you I'm gonna lose it.

I'm assuming you've been whooshed, because that wasn't so much a joke as a list of negative Jewish stereotypes. Still not funny, though.

[WILLASS]

I wonder why it is that the only Jewish jokes I hear (besides those about money) are about Jewish women's reluctance to give blow jobs, or a general disinterest in sex. I hear pretty much the same jokes about English women.

The first part might explain why we have the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in Europe......

[Annie-Xmas]

Seinfeld: I think Dr. Watley converted to Judaism only the jokes.
Priest: And that offends you as a Jew?
Seinfeld: No, it offends me as a comedian.

[Boyo Jim]

The first part might explain why we have the highest rates of teenage pregnancy in Europe......

Who has the highest teen pregnancy rates? English? Jews? English Jews?

[Bill Door]

Here's a Jewish joke that doesn't involve a lack of blowjobs. It may not be a Jewish joke at all, but it is a joke with a Jew in it, and I've told it to mixed audiences without obvious offense, but I'm not the most perceptive of men.

A Catholic priest and a Rabbi are attending an ecumenical council. While sharing lunch, the priest ordered a BLT, and asked the Rabbi if he ever wondered what bacon tastes like. The Rabbi said that once, when he was in Rabbinical school, he travelled to where no one knew him and tried some bacon and eggs, so he did know.

Then the Rabbi says, "Rabbis are allowed, even encouraged, to marry and have normal relations with women, while priests are forbidden to do so. Did the priest ever wonder what it was like?" "Well," the priest answers, "when I was in the seminary I travelled out of town and met a woman, and one thing led to another, and I did have relations and know what that is like."

The Rabbi says, "It's better than bacon, isn't it?".

It doesn't involve stereotypes, and offhand I can see no room for taking offense, but I admit that if the human relations director of my company were in the room I wouldn't tell it. That probably should be a warning sign.

The question is, why?

[Critical1]

I am not the person to ask if a joke is appropriate or not because my sense of humor is truly messed up. but from experience Jews know the best and the most offensive Jew jokes ever.

one of my girls told me I was racist against Jews and I just rolled my eyes, she was one of those students who is smart and anything but shy so I knew she was going some where with that comment. turns out that I am only racist against blonde haired blue eyed Jewish girls (which is what she was) it was pretty funny in context.

on the other hand I had a student tell my what she thought was the most offensive Jew joke ever after we were talking about race mixing and how interesting things were with peoples backgrounds.
"What did the Nazi say to the Black Jew?"


will you please move to the back of the oven


it was pretty damn offensive, but I still laughed/

[Green Bean]

I'm pretty sure I've said it in other threads but I'm Jewish.
I don't care if you're the reincarnation of Rebbe Menachem Schneerson. That shit was offensive. Maybe because it wasn't the slightest bit funny.


"What did the Nazi say to the Black Jew?"


will you please move to the back of the oven


it was pretty damn offensive, but I still laughed/
Now THIS one is funny.

[Hostile Dialect]

Meh, you gotta turn down your offense-o-meter a bit if you ask me.

Especially considering that Argent Towers is Jewish. There aren't enough :rolleyes: in the world for the OP of this thread.

Back on the real world, I'm definitely having my ignorance fought in this thread--it's really interesting to find out that the same basic ethnic jokes exist everywhere, but with a different cast of characters. What does that tell us about the way humans instinctively deal with obvious differences in appearance? Paging Dr. Pinker!

And HazelNutCoffee, there are two towers, not one.

In this post-9/11 world, you can never be sure.

[Bridget Burke]

Several years ago, I traveled to Sweden to attend a conference. Due to a scheduling whoops, I was with guys from Europe, not my coworkers from the US. I hung out with the instructor from Poland.
Over dinner, we would tell each other jokes we knew.
Damn if he didn't know just about the same exact jokes as I did only with a different cast of characters.
Dumb Polack = dumb Russian
Greedy Jew = Greedy German
etc etc.
It was interesting to hear his take on some Polish jokes. :D FTR he thought they were hilarious. (The problem was finding one he did not already know as a dumb Russian joke)
My advice is turn down the offense meter. Or go listen to Don Rickles do a show.

Argent there is one other difference, but I'm not going there. :eek:

Here in Texas, we turn most "Polish" jokes into "Aggie" jokes. (Texas A&M is a fine institution. Originally, it was for white men only & ROTC membership was compulsory. Somehow, Aggies became known as less than smart. All Teasip* lies, no doubt.)

Personally, I'm very careful about ethnic jokes--unless they begin like "An Irishman, a Scot & an Englisman walk into a bar...."

------------------------------------------
* Teasip: University of Texas student or alumnus. No, they aren't all dumb frat jocks & silly sorority chicks!

[Johnny Angel]

The reality is that the most vocally sensitive person in the room gets to decide what's appropriate. Taken to an extreme, this can lead to an Orwellian nightmare in which no discourse or free speech is possible, but I just don't think toning it down because someone has crossed an invisible line with cainxinth is nearly so bad, although I do think a nice chorous of "Relax, these are only jokes. Let's all hold hands and remember the good times" is also an agreeable salve. People have asserted their boundaries, which overlap, but that doesn't mean we have to fight about it. Let us make peace and move on to telling Irish jokes. You can almost always get away with making fun of the Irish, because they love any chance to talk about being Irish.

[Slypork]

My heritage: Mostly Irish, with German and Czech mixed in. I’ve heard my share of jokes about those groups. For example:
“What do you call an abortion in Prague?” A canceled Czech. I was also raised Catholic so I heard a lot of those jokes. I work with computers, love Star Trek and am a Chicago Bears fan so I hear all of those jokes.

Jokes are either funny or not. But the offense comes from the teller, not the listener. Richard Pryor did a great rip on white people in Live on the Sunset Strip. He made fun of the attitudes and language of whites versus blacks (of course he used the nowverboten “n-word”). No malice, no hate. Michael Richards made jokes about blacks but was using the jokes as a weapon.

Most ethnic jokes point to the ridiculous stereotypes and prejudices that people perceive in “others”. But, as Rick and HubZilla mentioned upthread, different groups/countries will find alternate targets. Got a joke about the rivalry between Packers and Bears fans? I’ve bet you’ve probably heard it also used to refer to two other teams. Tight-fisted Jewish jokes? I’m sure the same ones are being told with Scottish or some other group. Are women bad drivers or are Asians? Were the people in the joke dumb blondes or dumb Polacks/Swedes/Irish/German/Albanian/Inuit/etc?

Tell me a joke, any kind. Make fun of my ancestry, my religion, my hobbies. You can also call me a mick or a kraut and I won’t care. I’m a honky, or a cracker. Make fun of the fact that where I live I’m surrounded by rednecks. It doesn’t bother me. Your words cannot hurt me because that is all they are: words. It is the power and the message behind the words that can hurt and offend. If your joke is told in the spirit of friendship, goodwill and sharing then go right ahead. But if your joke is told because of your hatred of my make up, then you’re damn right I’ll be offended.

[Knowed Out]

I think whenever you open a thread called "Post your favorite Joke," you better be prepared for seeing one that targets your ethnic/religious/class background. There's no way everybody involved can avoid being a targetter, much less a target. You're an unknown to them, so there's no way they could know that YOU, the CENTER of the UNIVERSE, could be offended.

And of crouse, nothing provides an opportunity for more laughs than to see somebody protest the jokes. ZOOM! New Target! You can't shame them into stopping.

Best example of this was when Gilbert Goddfried was on Howard Stern, and a woman called in with the intention of exposing Gilbert as a terrible Holocaust hater, as if millions didn't already think Goddfried was an asshole. Goddfried explained that she was hired to drive him from the airport to his venue. After she picked him up, she immediately started talking to him about how her parents were Holocaust survivors, and got into all the sordid details of what they went through. After 20 minutes or so of this, Goddfried asked her if she ever got too scared to take a shower because she was afraid gas might come out.

She of course, got angry at this, and the more she complained, the more jokes he made about it. When she called him on Stern, it made the situation even worse for her, because now Goddfried had an audience of millions to bounce these jokes against and hear her horrified reactions. "So are you afraid to bake anything because you think you might get trapped in the oven?"

[olivesmarch4th]

I agree that there is a thin line. I'm pretty offended by blatantly racist jokes. I can sort of relate to the concept of the jokes being acceptable in certain circles. When I was in high school, almost every single one of my friends was gay. The word ''fag,'' coming from my mouth, was a term of endearment. I would never use this word in polite society but when hanging out with my friends fake gay insults were a matter of course. I think when you can safely use these stereotypes with friends who are culturally different it says a lot about the level of trust and intimacy between you.

I will admit that when we're sitting at home goofing around, my husband and I can come up with some righteously offensive things to say... stuff we wouldn't be caught dead saying in front of anyone else. But what makes it okay is that we both understand one another perfectly. We know we are tolerant people; we are mocking the intolerant.

And I think many stand up comics take it too far (Sarah Silverman for example), but every once in a while racial comedy can be gold. ''The Axis of Evil Comedy Tour'' is the perfect example. I think the whole thing is pretty hilarious, with the best by far being, ''I got married to an Indian woman a year ago... beautiful, beautiful Indian woman... I have to clarify because people go woah, woah, which do you mean... and I always have to say, no, no, not casino Indian... computer Indian. Yes, that's right, I married Tech Support.'' You haven't lived until you've had the Maz Jobrani (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFM2KlOAiCM&feature=related) experience. He is Perrrsian, Meow!

[stw004]

Honestly I feel like if something offends you, you have something wrong with you. I can not think of anything anybody could say to me that is going to get me riled up and offended. If you don't like the jokes someone tells than shrug it off and don't hang out with them anymore, but don't for the love of God obsess and lose sleep over it. Its my opinion that when someone can tell you a joke that pokes fun at your religious/ethnic/ etc. group than that person feels comfortable enough around you and your people to laugh and have a good time.

Also for the the record:

Whats the difference between a baptist and methodist?
Two methodists will talk to each other at the liquour store.

[Bosstone]

Or they could just be a dick that you can't avoid for one reason or another. I'm pretty laid-back as far as these things go, but I can recognize that some people do tell offensive jokes to be nasty.

And, for the record, we have two situations in this thread:
X telling an X joke to a non-X
Non-X telling an X joke to an X

But what about a non-X telling an X joke to a non-X? Is it really so innocent then?

[stw004]

Who cares if i'm an X and someone tells a joke about X's, then one of two things are occuring there is some truth to the joke (though it may be in bad taste), and so I can think its distasteful, but i'm not going to let it get at me, because i recognize that the joke is based on "some" truth. Or its just a joke ment to be nasty without a single grain of truth, in which case by getting mad and letting it eat at me all I'm doing is playing their game and giving them the satisfaction they don't deserve.

[Chronos]

There's also the category of jokes about a certain group of people, which will only make sense to members of that group, or those very familiar with them. I've certainly heard my share of Catholic jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Catholics, and physicist jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-physicists, and Montana jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Montanans, and so forth. I don't generally tell such jokes in mixed company, not because they're offensive, but simply because they wouldn't be funny to outsiders.

[Musicat]

Best example of this was when Gilbert Goddfried was on Howard Stern... Gilbert Gottfried (http://www.gilbertgottfried.com/) can get by with this, but Michael Richards (http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/kramers-racist-tirade-caught-on-tape/) cannot?

Maybe it's the delivery and not the audience?

[Argent Towers]

I don't care if you're the reincarnation of Rebbe Menachem Schneerson. That shit was offensive. Maybe because it wasn't the slightest bit funny.

Now THIS one is funny.

(Joke about Jews and Blacks being burned alive in an oven.)


A light-hearted mention of some Jewish stereotypes (greedy, loansharking, gambling) which actually have a lot of basis in reality (Jews in Europe were forced into finance by kings who wouldn't let them own land, Jews have traditionally been overrepresented in American gambling and organized crime) and which are totally ingrained in our popular culture, and you get offended.

Someone makes a joke about a Jew and a Black being burned alive in an oven, and you're not only not offended, but you're entertained.

I think something is a little off about this situation.

[Green Bean]

A light-hearted mention of some Jewish stereotypes (greedy, loansharking, gambling) which actually have a lot of basis in reality (Jews in Europe were forced into finance by kings who wouldn't let them own land, Jews have traditionally been overrepresented in American gambling and organized crime) and which are totally ingrained in our popular culture, and you get offended.

Someone makes a joke about a Jew and a Black being burned alive in an oven, and you're not only not offended, but you're entertained.

I think something is a little off about this situation.
Not at all. Your "joke" just wasn't funny.

[Beware of Doug]

Here in Texas, we turn most "Polish" jokes into "Aggie" jokes.Since A&M joined the Big 12 I've even heard an Italian joke retold about Aggies:

Q. Why do Aggies wear knee-high boots?
A. Because you couldn't fit all that shit into a shoe.

[stw004]

Well I guess all you teasips are just jealous that my ring is so pretty!!!!

[jali]

My turn to be offended now but I'm offended by the OP more than any joke I've ever heard. (I've heard some cruel and funny shit)

To create a new thread to show the rest of us the error of our ways, and reminding us that we'd been admonished not just once, but twice is amazing to me.

People disagree with your opinion. I don't hold the Jewish faith higher than any other faith. Based on your posts, it feels as though you think I should, based whatever reasons you have.

As an African American I suppose I could cry and scream and cringe every time a bad joke is told. Hopefully, I'll cringe at every bad joke I hear, not just ones involving "the Brothers". (sarcasm in using this term)

Native Americans suffered genocide- as did Africans-as did Jewish people - as did MANY MANY OTHERS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history) in the history of the world. It's horrific - it's hard to accept... but sometimes, shit is just funny! (oh no, now I'll be admonished for laughing at genocide - I'm not laughing at the acts of cruelty - I'm laughing at my timing in adding my disclaimer. See - a joke)

To the poster who listed "the holocaust" as verboten:
If we're to be expected to modify our funny bones to exclude the holocaust of the 1930s-1940s, then we need to modify our funny bones for all people who've been enslaved, tortured, systematically killed over the ages. See above.

I laugh at whatever I find funny - I laughed a lot in the original thread. "So sue me." (paraphrasing a comic from the Borsht Belt)

[cainxinth]

jali, I think you missed my point. I said I liked Jewish jokes. Heck, I like all offensive jokes. My problem is the people who don't think Jewish jokes are offensive.

[Max Torque]

There's also the category of jokes about a certain group of people, which will only make sense to members of that group, or those very familiar with them. I've certainly heard my share of Catholic jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Catholics, and physicist jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-physicists, and Montana jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Montanans, and so forth. I don't generally tell such jokes in mixed company, not because they're offensive, but simply because they wouldn't be funny to outsiders.
Indeed. A lesbian once told me the following joke:

Q: How can you spot a lesbian bar?
A: All the U-Hauls parked out front.

Now, if you're not a lesbian, you very probably don't get it. Lesbians, though, think it's hilarious. The joke, as I was told, is that lesbians quite often move in with each other very quickly, not long after first meeting each other. And it's something about themselves that they apparently find humorous.

[borschevsky]

I don't care if you're the reincarnation of Rebbe Menachem Schneerson. That shit was offensive. Maybe because it wasn't the slightest bit funny.This is it, basically, I think. There are two reasons a person might tell a racist joke: because it's funny, or because it's racist. If a person I know well tells such a joke, I can be fairly sure why they're telling it. If some person I just met, or some anonymous person on a message board tells it, then I have no frame of reference other than the joke itself. So, if I find it funny, I figure they told it because it's funny; if I don't find it funny, I figure they told it because it's racist.

Obviously it's not an exact science, and my position generally is to just not worry about it too much.

[jali]

jali, I think you missed my point. I said I liked Jewish jokes. Heck, I like all offensive jokes. My problem is the people who don't think Jewish jokes are offensive.


I'm saying that Jewish jokes are no more and no less offensive than any other (fill in the group/gender/sex/religion) joke. Why such outrage at Jewish jokes? Why no outrage at Black jokes?

[cainxinth]

I'm saying that Jewish jokes are no more and no less offensive than any other (fill in the group/gender/sex/religion) joke. Why such outrage at Jewish jokes? Why no outrage at Black jokes?

No one told a black joke. And I actually equated the two in the thread mentioned:

I'm also Jewish and I happen to love Jewish jokes. But, I can't say I've had many gentiles tell a jewish joke to me, certainly none I wasn't friendly with. I haven't heard any black jokes told in here. I think it's because people would find it crude and offensive to do so in a public forum. Why is this different?

[Slypork]

jali, I think you missed my point. I said I liked Jewish jokes. Heck, I like all offensive jokes. My problem is the people who don't think Jewish jokes are offensive.Offensiveness and beauty are both in the eye of the beholder. Some Jewish people might be offended by all Jewish jokes, no matter who told them or what the situation was. Others might think nothing of telling Holocaust jokes. Some white people might be offended by any racist jokes denigrating black people and some black people might look at them :dubious: . Same for any other group. Fundamentalist Muslims are offended by…hell, what aren’t they offended by? ;)
The point is, some people will hear a joke and go, “Meh, I’ve heard worse.” Others will hear it and want to go on a jihad to kill the person who made the joke. If someone you don’t know tells a joke that you find offensive, let them know how you feel. If they do it again, they are probably an asshole and you shouldn’t give a shit about them anyway.

[Argent Towers]

To the poster who listed "the holocaust" as verboten:
If we're to be expected to modify our funny bones to exclude the holocaust of the 1930s-1940s, then we need to modify our funny bones for all people who've been enslaved, tortured, systematically killed over the ages. See above.


I hope you're not talking about me here. Because I don't think the holocaust or anything else is "verboten" (nice pun by the way, if it was intended.) I just think it's hypocritical to laugh at a holocaust joke but take offense at some other kind of Jewish joke. I sure as hell don't have any problem joking about the holocaust, as long as the person just means it as a joke and isn't actually in favor of killing Jews. Since I only have a few neo-Nazi friends, I thankfully don't have to deal with the latter very often.

[Hostile Dialect]

I just don't think toning it down because someone has crossed an invisible line with cainxinth is nearly so bad

Except that cainxinth's stated criterion is that the teller of a Jewish joke must be Jewish, and in this case, he was. Which means cainxinth is just pissing into the wind.

I don't hold the Jewish faith higher than any other faith. Based on your posts, it feels as though you think I should, based whatever reasons you have.


The OP is talking about the Jewish ethnicity and culture, not the Jewish faith. Think "Jew" as contrasted to "Arab", not "Jew" as contrasted to "Muslim": not all Jews are religious and not all members of the Jewish faith are members of the Jewish ethnicity and culture.

[Doug Bowe]

There's also the category of jokes about a certain group of people, which will only make sense to members of that group, or those very familiar with them. I've certainly heard my share of Catholic jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Catholics, and physicist jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-physicists, and Montana jokes which wouldn't make sense to non-Montanans, and so forth. I don't generally tell such jokes in mixed company, not because they're offensive, but simply because they wouldn't be funny to outsiders.


Exactly. How can you tell the Reform Jew in the bakery?

He orders a challah for Friday pickup and says "Slice it."

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Explain please, Doug? If it were Saturday pickup I'd understand.

Daniel

[Hostile Dialect]

Explain please, Doug? If it were Saturday pickup I'd understand.

Daniel

Not correctly, since the Sabbath begins at dinner on Friday night, which is when the bread is broken.