Why did North Dakota try to secede in the '30s?

[schief2]

I was doing some reading today and came across a (frustratingly vague) reference to this very scenario. From what I could gather, the governor got in a bit of tiff with the feds and decided screw it, we're outta here...he apparently barricaded himself in his office for a month or two and announced North Dakota's secession from the union.

So what's the deal? Anyone know what he was so pissed off about? Even the state history on ND's official website only makes reference to his being involved in "campaign law violations" and has no mention of seceding. And how did it all get resolved? Obviously North Dakota's still around to house Titan missiles and have the Coen brothers make movies about it...

[Snooooopy]

Did he give up on the secession idea when he found out that no one in the U.S. really cared?

[barker]

In 1933, William "Fighting Bill" Langer took office as Governor of North Dakota. Although he was hugely popular, he soon exhausted his support when he demanded that state employees contribute to the state Republican party. As some of these salaries were paid with federal money, he was convicted of conspiring to defraud the U.S. government in June of 1934. He refused to resign, and barricaded himself in his office. He issued a declaration of martial law and announced North Dakota's secession from the United States. Only after the state Supreme Court ruled in July that he was ineligible to hold office did he step down. Langer was later re-elected, and served out his second term in a much quieter fashion.

From gravy.net

[MEBuckner]

The secession proposal rates an entry in the Footnotes to History (http://www.gravy.net/~jim/nations.html) page (an "overview of ephemeral states,
micronations, secessionist states, and every other kind of country you never heard of in high school."):

North Dakota- In 1933, William "Fighting Bill" Langer (pictured at right) took office as Governor of North Dakota. Although he was hugely popular, he soon exhausted his support when he demanded that state employees contribute to the state Republican party. As some of these salaries were paid with federal money, he was convicted of conspiring to defraud the U.S. government in June of 1934. He refused to resign, and barricaded himself in his office. He issued a declaration of martial law and announced North Dakota's secession from the United States. Only after the state Supreme Court ruled in July that he was ineligible to hold office did he step down. Langer was later re-elected, and served out his second term in a much quieter fashion.

This index of manuscripts at the Insitute for Regional Studies (http://www.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndirs/collections/manuscripts/business/Anders/scope&content.html) at North Dakota State University in Fargo mentions a "resolution that Western United States secede from the East".

[MEBuckner]

Darn! Beat me to it, and by six whole minutes. That's what comes of excessive proofreading, I guess....

Even more embarassing, I messed up the line spacing on part of the post after all.

[barker]

But your cites are so much better MEB
I tend to get lazy at this time of the night.

[MEBuckner]

Actually, my curiosity is now at least mildly aroused. I wonder if anybody else has more info on this incident. Any North Dakotans out there? Does this mean y'all put "Fergit, hell!" bumper stickers on your cars up there?

[Telemark]

And if North Dakota suceded now they'd be the world's fifth or so largest nuclear power. Think twice about pissing them off.

[northdakotatroy]

The truth is North Dakota did not try to secede, our Governor did.

Governor William Langer was convicted of defrauding the Federal Government, and the state Supreme Court declared Lt. Gov Ole Olson the new Governor.

Governor Langer declared North Dakota independent, declared martial law, and barricaded himself in the Governor's mansion, demanding a meeting with the Supreme Court.

He eventually relented and went to jail. He was released, appealed his conviction (which he eventually won), and got re-elected. He later served as a Senator.

So the truth is, North Dakota never tried to secede, our Governor just got a little crazy when he was convicted of a crime.

Colorful guy, that William Langer.

[silenus]

In other words, what somebody else posted 11 freaking years ago!

Learn to read dates, newb.

[Musicat]

Interesting stuff, northdakotatroy. You might not have noticed that you are adding to an 11-year old thread, although new data is always welcome. And speaking of welcome, welcome to the SDMB.

I hope you'll stick around for more than one post, and join us in the Pursuit Of Knowledge, otherwise known as Fighting Ignorance (It's taking longer than we thought).

[Inner Stickler]

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? And we trust these people with nukes? Oh, god, we're all going to die aren't we.

[Derleth]

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? And we trust these people with nukes? Oh, god, we're all going to die aren't we.Well, ya gotta understand that North Dakota is home to cattle, wind, land, wind, tumbleweeds, grass, rocks, wind, cattle, snow, heat, and wind. The people who live there have looked upon the grim, dead face of a nuclear winter and dubbed it January; the prospect of being blasted does not frighten them as much as the idea of watching Southerners trying to drive on ice amuses them.

[northdakotatroy]

Wow. I'm shocked that everybody is so friendly here.

Sorry for disturbing your lives.

[mcgato]

I know this is a zombie, but North Dakota also produces about 80% of the country's Durum wheat (http://www.ndwheat.com/consumers/default.asp?ID=429) which is what most pasta is made of.

[Inner Stickler]

the prospect of being blasted does not frighten them as much as the idea of watching Southerners trying to drive on ice amuses them.Ok, that is pretty funny.

[jayjay]

Wow. I'm shocked that everybody is so friendly here.

Sorry for disturbing your lives.

I can't apologize for someone else's rudeness, but I can explain. For a long time, this board wasn't indexed by search engines, and the board culture came to regard deliberate or inadvertent resurrection of long-dead threads as something of a faux pas. The thread got labeled a "zombie" (because someone brought it back from the dead) and we'd all make fun of the person who didn't notice it was ancient.

Since the board began to be indexed by Google/Yahoo!/whatever, we've had a lot of zombie resurrections happen by simple ignorance that a) the thread even was 11 years old or whatever and b) the board culture says don't drag these up for no good reason.

So I can't apologize for silenus, but I can at least explain some part of his rudeness...

[Musicat]

You might not have noticed that you are adding to an 11-year old thread, although new data is always welcome. And speaking of welcome, welcome to the SDMB.


Wow. I'm shocked that everybody is so friendly here.
:)

[BlinkingDuck]

Hey, A fellow Nodakian!

Just as long as you aren't from Minot...we'll be ok. :)

[Acsenray]

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again?

This is exactly what I was thinking. What was going on with that electorate?

[Punoqllads]

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again?"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.

"You know. Morons."

[cmkeller]

Punoqllads:

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again?

They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Book titles on this topic, please?

[ZenBeam]

They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up.:)

[Elendil's Heir]

Thanks for the additional info, and welcome to the SDMB, northdakotatroy.

[Leo Bloom]

Punoqllads:



They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up.Damn. Was all ready to quote that, and I was late, late.

[SandyHook]

Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? And we trust these people with nukes? Oh, god, we're all going to die aren't we.


While this has nothing do with the OP, it's sort of interesting.

When the LittleHook (age 42) started the first grade we lived in Grayson, Kentucky. The president of the school board had only a couple of years earlier gotten out of prison. He'd been the president of the school board earlier and was found to have embezzled a fair amount of coin. When he got out he was reelected.

North Dakota has nothing on Kentucky in the entertainment arena.





You may now continue your regulary scheduled posting.

[Leo Bloom]

What other states proposed, in any serious way, seceding after the Civil War?

I'm guessing the former nation (?) Texas has done it a number of times.

[Elendil's Heir]

Since the Civil War? None all that seriously. But Northern California has from time to time had folks who wanted to secede from Southern California, and Rick Perry got some attention last year when he said Texas just might want to secede again if those tax-n-spend libruls in Washington couldn't get their act together.

[Acsenray]

I'm guessing the former nation (?) Texas has done it a number of times.

Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state.

[Leo Bloom]

Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state.
Can I declare myself an independent sovereign state?

I remember reading a while ago about this Palestinian self-recognition thing that it involves having clear borders and some other things.

[Elendil's Heir]

Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state.

As was Vermont from 1777-1791: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_vermont

[Acsenray]

As was Vermont from 1777-1791: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_vermont

Hawaii had the advantage of actually being recognized as an independent state by other countries.

[DxZero]

Can I declare myself an independent sovereign state?

I remember reading a while ago about this Palestinian self-recognition thing that it involves having clear borders and some other things.

Quoting myself:

An incomplete list of the steps needed to become an independent nation:

Declare yourself one. And make sure you got yourself a decent population. No Sealand scenarios.
Get recognition of your independence by a group of countries. The bigger and more powerful the countries the better. If some mixture of the US/Britain/Russia/China recognizes you as an independent power, you're pretty golden. Albania, not so much.
Finally, protect your borders - from the inside out. If you can't establish some military control against external forces, you can't rightly be considered a country. Furthermore, if you can't maintain internal order, no country do you have.






http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14004913#post14004913

[Ispolkom]

Hey, A fellow Nodakian!

Just as long as you aren't from Minot...we'll be ok. :)

What do you have against Minotaurs?

[Inner Stickler]

Well, apparently they call themselves minotaurs, so there's one strike right there.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Book titles on this topic, please?

[Senegoid]

Hawaii had the advantage of actually being recognized as an independent state by other countries.

Brief history of California, as I think I understand it:
-- Part of Mexico, settled (sort of) by Spaniard soldiers and padres.
-- American businessmen gain foothold, foment revolt, gain enough power to declare independent Bear Flag Republic.
-- Bear Flag Republic lasts only a short while, soon petitions to become part of United States.
-- Becomes the State of California.

In retrospect, it can be seen that the American businessmen intended it to play out this way all along, because they saw it was to their advantage to become part of the United States rather than be part of Mexico.

Brief history of Hawaii, as I think I understand it:
-- Independent nation, islands united by Kamehameha to create a dynasty, lastly ruled by Queen Liliuokalani.
-- Increasing presence of American businessmen, in particular the Dole and C&H barons; they gain enough economic power to foment revolt against Kamehameha dynasty; created republic.
-- Quickly petitions to be come part of the United States.
-- Becomes a state.

In retrospect, it can be seen that the American businessmen intended it to play out this way all along, because they saw it was to their advantage to become part of the United States rather than be ruled by independent local natives.

Yes, history repeats itself.

[Acsenray]

Texan history more or less follows the same pattern. But even taking them all together, Hawaii is the one case in which the country was already an independent state. It wasn't manufactured by white settlers.

[Ispolkom]

Book titles on this topic, please?

Morlan, Robert L. Political Prairie Fire: The Nonpartisan League 1915-1922. (St. Paul: Minnesota Historical Society Press, 1955, 1985). The standard work on Bill Langer's political rise.

I remember a biography of Langer being advertised on television back in the 1970s, but can't find any sign of it.

Some research libraries might have this book, but given its date of publication I'd have doubts about its impartiality:

Holzworth, John M. The fighting governor : the story of William Langer and the state of North Dakota Chicago: The Pointer Press, 1938.

[Kimballkid]

Well, ya gotta understand that North Dakota is home to cattle, wind, land, wind, tumbleweeds, grass, rocks, wind, cattle, snow, heat, and wind. The people who live there have looked upon the grim, dead face of a nuclear winter and dubbed it January; the prospect of being blasted does not frighten them as much as the idea of watching Southerners trying to drive on ice amuses them.

I just had to register to say that with me being from the other Dakota, this is a thing of pure poetry.

[Sunspace]

North Dakota. Also known as South Saskatchewan, where people from Regina go to get warm.... :)