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View Full Version : How did L. Ron Hubbard claim to have learned about Xenu?


happywaffle
02-01-2008, 10:06 AM
Was just chuckling again at the South Park rendition of "WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE." Nutty as it all is, I realized that even in Crazy Town, L. Ron would have had to have claimed to "learn" the truth about thetans, Xenu, and intergalactic federations from millions of years ago. (Not like he made it all up or anything! Ha!)

So, how did he CLAIM to come across this information, anyway? Did it come to him in a dream, or what?

diggleblop
02-01-2008, 11:18 AM
www.xenu.net is a great resource site for this cult.

spingears
02-01-2008, 03:16 PM
So, how did he CLAIM to come across this information, anyway? Did it come to him in a dream, or what?

IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his Sci.Fi. and you will get the idea.

happywaffle
02-01-2008, 03:20 PM
IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his Sci.Fi. and you will get the idea.

Right, I've read that too. And thanks for the xenu.net link. But neither really addresses what L. Ron told his followers about how he uncovered all this prehistoric superhuman information. Or whether anyone ever bothered to ask.

I'm not asking about whether this is a huge pile of bullshit - clearly, it is - but rather about a particular aspect of the bullshit.

Lobohan
02-01-2008, 03:22 PM
Obviously it's the inspired word of God, silly.

You know, like the book of mormon.

happywaffle
02-01-2008, 03:24 PM
Obviously it's the inspired word of God, silly.

You know, like the book of mormon.

But - sorry to be a grouch - John Smith actually said that the Book of Mormon was the inspired word of God. Question answered.

Did L. Ron claim this about Scientology? To my understanding, "God" doesn't play much of a role (if any) in the whole Xenu mythology.

DocCathode
02-01-2008, 03:36 PM
IIRC Hubbard claimed to have remembered it all through autohypnosis after much self auditing. I know Xenu.net has records of Scientologists claiming to have recovered memories of incarnations in the Xenu era.

Otto
02-01-2008, 03:46 PM
IIRC Scientology and its foundations were the result of a conversations LRF had with a friend who was explaining religion to him. His ultimate response was that if all that was true he could/would whip up his own religion which ultimately became Scientilogy. Boils down to all being the product of a fertile immagination. Read some of his Sci.Fi. and you will get the idea.
Actor and comics writer Del Close claimed to have been present for this conversation and wrote a segment for a comics series called "Wasteland" about it.

Menocchio
02-01-2008, 03:55 PM
IIRC Hubbard claimed to have remembered it all through autohypnosis after much self auditing. I know Xenu.net has records of Scientologists claiming to have recovered memories of incarnations in the Xenu era.
Yep. He also claimed to have received grievous injuries from the realization.

This is why, the cult claims, you can't be told about Xenu until you're ready. The knowledge can harm you.

Stan Shmenge
02-02-2008, 01:12 AM
Hubbard was a full fledged astral travelling MoFo. He claimed to have been "almost run over by a frieght locomotive" on Venus. He comments that it is nice and warm in the Van Allen belt. He claims to have received visions. Before Xenu there is a thing about hearing a loud snapping sound and seeing a chariot that "turns right then left". This is taken as the origin of our universe.

crowmanyclouds
02-02-2008, 05:26 AM
It's all about the super secret OT III, which the "church" has done much to keep out of the public.Xenu in Scientology doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Xenu_in_Scientology_doctrine)

... Hubbard said that he was the first to map a precise route through the Wall of Fire, "probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years". He first publicly announced his "breakthrough" in Ron's Journal 67 (RJ67), a tape Hubbard recorded on 20 September 1967 to be sent to all members of the Church. According to Hubbard, his research was achieved at the cost of a broken back, knee and arm. OT III contains a warning that the R6 implant is "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it." ...Origins of the Xenu story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Origins_of_the_Xenu_story)

Hubbard wrote OT III in late 1966 and early 1967 in North Africa while on his way to Las Palmas to join the Enchanter, the first vessel of his private Scientology fleet (the "Sea Org"). (OT III says "In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge", but the material was publicised well before this.) He emphasized later that OT III was his own personal discovery.

Critics of Scientology have suggested that other factors may have been at work. In a letter of the time to his wife Mary Sue, Hubbard said that, in order to assist his research, he was drinking alcohol and taking stimulants and depressants ("I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys"). His assistant at the time, Virginia Downsborough, said that he "was existing almost totally on a diet of drugs." Miller (p290) speculates that it was important for Hubbard to be found in a debilitated condition, so as to present OT III as "a research accomplishment of immense magnitude".

Elements of the Xenu story appeared in Scientology before OT III. Hubbard's descriptions of extraterrestrial conflicts were put forward as early as 1952 and were enthusiastically endorsed by Scientologists, who documented their past lives on other planets (published in 1960 as Have You Lived Before This Life). OT III may not even have been Hubbard's first mention of Xenu, albeit in a different form. In an obscure lecture of 25 July 1958, "The Rock: Putting The PC At Cause", he refers to "Mount Zenu". Xenu, Hubbard says, was imprisoned under a mountain. ...Legal difficulties and life on the high seas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Legal_difficulties_and_life_on_the_high_seas)

... A letter Hubbard wrote to his third wife, Mary Sue, when he was in Las Palmas around 1967: "Iím drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys...". The author of an unauthorized Hubbard biography also says that "John McMasters told me that on the flagship Apollo in the late sixties he witnessed Hubbard's drug supply. 'It was the largest drug chest I had ever seen. He had everything!'". This was confirmed by Gerald Armstrong through Virginia Downsborough who said in 1967 he returned to Las Palmas totally debilitated from drugs.
We found him a hotel in Las Palmas and the next day I went back to see if he was all right, because he did not seem to be too well. When I went in to his room, there were drugs of all kinds everywhere. He seemed to be taking about sixty thousand different pills. I was appalled, particularly after listening to all his tirades against drugs and the medical profession. There was something very wrong with him... My main concern was to try and get him off all the pills he was on and persuade him that there was still plenty for him to do."He was existing almost totally on a diet of drugs. For three weeks Hubbard was bedridden, while she weaned him off his habit." His drug use appears to pre-date the 1967 accounts. ...... Before Xenu there is a thing about hearing a loud snapping sound and seeing a chariot that "turns right then left". This is taken as the origin of our universe.OT III also deals with Incident I, set four quadrillion years ago (roughly 300,000 times longer than current scientific consensus holds the age of the universe to be). In Incident I, the unsuspecting thetan was subjected to a loud snapping noise followed by a flood of luminescence, then saw a chariot followed by a trumpeting cherub. After a loud set of snaps, the thetan was overwhelmed by darkness. This is described as the implant offering the gateway to this universe, meaning that these traumatic memories are what separate thetans from their static (natural, godlike) state. ...CITE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Xenu_in_Scientology_doctrine)So to put it in a nutshell, WAY too many drugs!

Lots o' links about OT III etc,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#External_links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Thetan#External_links
The Secret Library of Scientology (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/index.html)

Two good, but long, reads;
Bare-Faced Messiah by Russell Miller (http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/bfm/bfmconte.htm)
A Piece of Blue Sky by Jon Atack (http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/apobs/contents.htm)

CMC +fnord!
ALL HAIL ZENU
ETA DocCathode nailed the "official" explanation!

Stan Shmenge
02-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Bare Faced Messiah is a great read. Elron's real life is even more fascinating than the one they made up for him.

chorpler
02-02-2008, 06:56 PM
But - sorry to be a grouch - John Smith actually said that the Book of Mormon was the inspired word of God. Question answered.

[nitpick]

It's Joe Smith. Joseph, actually, since that's what he always went by. And he claimed the Book of Mormon was an English translation of a record ancient inhabitants of the Americas had carved onto metal plates and stored in the ground for ~1400 years, until one of them came to him as an angel and showed him where they were.

But your point stands.

ralph124c
02-02-2008, 07:08 PM
What I don't understand..Hubbard was a notorious liar..about everything. His naval career was a disaster (he depth charged a submerged rock , thinking it was a Japanese submarine). His Sci_Fi was pretty mediocre, and most of the other things he claimed to have done were exaggerated. The whole Xenu story is such BShow do educated people fall for this crap?

thirdname
02-02-2008, 07:14 PM
The whole Xenu story is such BShow do educated people fall for this crap?You don't learn about the Xenu story and other bizarre stuff until you're in the upper levels of the church, possibly too late for you to be able to get out. There are security checks, and at that point you've spent a lot of money and the church is a huge part of your life. They used to sue anybody who published the OT documents, but nowadays they can't stop them from spreading around on the Internet.

Q.E.D.
02-02-2008, 07:15 PM
It's Joe Smith. Joseph, actually, since that's what he always went by. And he claimed the Book of Mormon was an English translation of a record ancient inhabitants of the Americas had carved onto metal plates and stored in the ground for ~1400 years, until one of them came to him as an angel and showed him where they were.
Dum dum dum...dum dum dum...dum dum dum dum dum!

cantara
02-04-2008, 09:51 AM
You don't learn about the Xenu story and other bizarre stuff until you're in the upper levels of the church, possibly too late for you to be able to get out. There are security checks, and at that point you've spent a lot of money and the church is a huge part of your life. They used to sue anybody who published the OT documents, but nowadays they can't stop them from spreading around on the Internet.

As I understand it, the adherants have also gone through years of auditing which requires recording reactions to words. Given the number of words that they will go through and the possibly embarassing reactions to specific words gives the Scientology 'management' a large dossier of potentially embarassing or revealing information about the person. That information can (and will) be used against them should they decide to leave the curch. Look up info on Dead Agenting, Suppressive Persons, and Fair Game. These deal with people who are outspoken critics, but leaving the church also means being shunned by all those who remain.

What I find particularly interesting is the fact that L. Ron is deemed a god and inerrant, but that critical documents keep changing (http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/alteringtech.htm), and high-ranking officials who leave the church are 'erased' from existence within the church. There are pages of these types of actions buried somewhere in XENU.NET.

Enola Straight
02-04-2008, 10:30 AM
Scientology in a nutshell. PDF

http://www.antisectes.net/42xenub-eng.pdf

Beware of Doug
02-04-2008, 10:35 AM
Dum dum dum...dum dum dum...dum dum dum dum dum!Really now. One would have sufficed.

Cervaise
02-04-2008, 11:45 AM
This is why, the cult claims, you can't be told about Xenu until you're ready. The knowledge can harm you.

Got better.

Balthisar
02-04-2008, 02:01 PM
Really now. One would have sufficed.
It's from this Episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_About_Mormons) of South Park.

Magiver
02-04-2008, 07:51 PM
IIRC Hubbard claimed to have remembered it all through autohypnosis after much self auditing. I know Xenu.net has records of Scientologists claiming to have recovered memories of incarnations in the Xenu era.I believe he channeld Xenu through an IRS agent, during an audit.

ralph124c
02-04-2008, 07:53 PM
In the mid-1960's Hubbard had a ship in the Mediterranean-which was used to "train" his "Sea Org" members-to join, you sign a billion year service contract!
Any way, Hubbard claimed that he would find vast stores of ancient treasures, from recalling his past lives as a roman emperor, etc. When none of his crazy predictions panned out, didn't the word get out?
Everybody can get away with a few lies-but after telling a few hundred, how can you maintain ANY credibility? Dianetis (Hubbard's firts invention) was proven false, Scientology was proven false-so why do people buy into it?

Jragon
02-04-2008, 08:08 PM
In the mid-1960's Hubbard had a ship in the Mediterranean-which was used to "train" his "Sea Org" members-to join, you sign a billion year service contract!
Any way, Hubbard claimed that he would find vast stores of ancient treasures, from recalling his past lives as a roman emperor, etc. When none of his crazy predictions panned out, didn't the word get out?
Everybody can get away with a few lies-but after telling a few hundred, how can you maintain ANY credibility? Dianetis (Hubbard's firts invention) was proven false, Scientology was proven false-so why do people buy into it?

Because by the time you join teh church"for kicks" and reach OTIII or something around that level you've dumped in so much money and time you'll rationalize ANYTHING to be true so you don't feel you just wasted tons of money. Also, the CoS isn't exactly known to be KIND to quitters...

InLucemEdita
02-04-2008, 09:43 PM
BShow do educated people fall for this crap?
Yeah it really is incredible isn't it. But I can't take the time to really get into the details right now because I'm trying to figure out what to give up for Lent. Getting ready to celebrate the arising from the dead of my immaculately-conceived, water-walking deity. Later.

Jragon
02-04-2008, 09:46 PM
Yeah it really is incredible isn't it. But I can't take the time to really get into the details right now because I'm trying to figure out what to give up for Lent. Getting ready to celebrate the arising from the dead of my immaculately-conceived, water-walking deity. Later.
Zombie Jesus wants your soul. His dad also needs you to have a one sided conversation with him (you see... he's mute, but he does enjoy being talked to).

Cervaise
02-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Zombie Jesus wants your soul. His dad also needs you to have a one sided conversation with him (you see... he's mute, but he does enjoy being talked to).And later, he wants you to cannibalize his remains.

aldiboronti
02-04-2008, 11:39 PM
Yep, faith scoffs at reason. As Tertullian said of Christianity centuries ago, "I believe it because it is impossible." The first thing people ditch when they join a cult is their rationality. The more people laugh at them the more convinced they are that they've found the secrets of the cosmos.

Such people are sitting ducks for old charlatans like Hubbard.

Cardinal
04-22-2008, 04:50 PM
Yep, faith scoffs at reason. As Tertullian said of Christianity centuries ago, "I believe it because it is impossible." As one of the most churchified people on this board, I want to say that I have no idea what he could have meant by this, and that I don't identify with it at all.

happywaffle
04-22-2008, 04:57 PM
As one of the most churchified people on this board,

Whoa, there's more than one of us? High five!

Chimera
04-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Are you ready for the Ultimate Secret of Scientology? The one that will totally blow your mind and disable your senses unless you have achieved the highest levels of clearance?

Straight from old L. Ron himself;

"It's all bullshit. I made it up. But keep your trap shut, because we have a good thing going here. If you've made it this far in the organization, you know how to enjoy it's fruits. Shut up and have some fun."

Ok, I made this post up, but I assure you that it is 100% accurate.

Cardinal
04-22-2008, 05:31 PM
Whoa, there's more than one of us? High five!Biola, even.




Not that I claim that, much. I still have some issues with some profs there, and some of the stances the admin has taken.

But, yes, that churchified.

ralph124c
04-22-2008, 06:13 PM
I mean, after spending >$100,000 getting to the stage of "clear"-you all of a sudden realize that:
-you DON'T have an IQ of 140
-you have no marketable skills
-you can get good readings on an "e meter", but you can't fix a broken faucet
do most of these people get verydepressed, realizing they have wasted their lives?
I feel pretty bad for somebody who swallows this BS

Happy Scrappy Hero Pup
04-22-2008, 11:34 PM
Yeah it really is incredible isn't it. But I can't take the time to really get into the details right now because I'm trying to figure out what to give up for Lent. Getting ready to celebrate the arising from the dead of my immaculately-conceived, water-walking deity. Later.

If you're going to rag on something, at least put enough effort into it to do a Google search.

The Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with Jesus's conception.

But hey, don't let me stop you from knee-jerking something you demonstratively know nothing about. Where would be the fun in that?

Melkor28
04-23-2008, 12:43 AM
I'll give L.Ron credit for one book.. "Battlefield Earth" was abosutle great. The movie sucked though. And his ten book series, forget the name ( got 2 books into it) that sucked too.

mr. jp
04-23-2008, 02:38 AM
If you're going to rag on something, at least put enough effort into it to do a Google search.

The Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with Jesus's conception.

But hey, don't let me stop you from knee-jerking something you demonstratively know nothing about. Where would be the fun in that?

I'm sure he meant virgin born. And it's not as if that makes it less silly.

Cardinal
04-25-2008, 03:17 PM
Misread the intent of last post. Oops.

gonzomax
04-25-2008, 10:55 PM
What I don't understand..Hubbard was a notorious liar..about everything. His naval career was a disaster (he depth charged a submerged rock , thinking it was a Japanese submarine). His Sci_Fi was pretty mediocre, and most of the other things he claimed to have done were exaggerated. The whole Xenu story is such BShow do educated people fall for this crap?
Because they feel alone and are desperately searching for something to make sense. Religion fills a void if you do not think too hard. Even this one .
Many years ago friends of mine graduated from U of Michigan and then joined Mahaji Ji. A truly stupid thing for intelligent people to buy in. They moved into an Ashram and the whole group made money in construction and gave it to the church.

solkoe
04-25-2008, 11:03 PM
Still waiting for Tom Cruise's reply.

Kevbo
04-25-2008, 11:09 PM
So, how did he CLAIM to come across this information, anyway? Did it come to him in a dream, or what?

I can't believe I am the first to point out that there is no "I" in clam.

InLucemEdita
04-25-2008, 11:55 PM
If you're going to rag on something, at least put enough effort into it to do a Google search.

The Immaculate Conception has nothing to do with Jesus's conception.

But hey, don't let me stop you from knee-jerking something you demonstratively know nothing about. Where would be the fun in that?

Thankfully your Virginally Conceived savior (or his Dad) endowed you with his own perfection, and the grace to correct my ignorance and perhaps even my sin.

I beseech thee...don't condemn my mortal flaws.
Pray for me, instead.

happywaffle
04-26-2008, 09:24 AM
Alright ladies, we're in GQ here, not GD...

Gfactor
04-26-2008, 10:33 AM
We seem to have exhasted the factual portion of this thread. We also seem to be headed nowhere fast. I'm going to close the thread.

Gfactor
General Questions Moderator