Rare find-a parent who takes responsibility for their child

[danceswithcats]

This is in the Pit, as I expect it would otherwise end up here.

A Florida mother had her child hold up a sign (http://www.local6.com/news/15242825/detail.html): "I was rude to my teacher. I can't come to school. I am sorry!!!" outside the school, while she stood by to ensure his safety.

It seems a little bit extreme, but not knowing the problems she's faced with junior in the past, at least mom is not blaming others for her child's misbehavior, and is addressing it herself. For that alone, I give her thumbs up.

[Beadalin]

Heh. That reminds me -- my sister recently made my niece go to her room and told her she couldn't come out until she'd made a list of at least 10 reasons not to be rude to people. The final (11-item) list haf these two gems:

#2: It makes people not want to take me out for ice cream, even to make up for something else.

#9: It makes me be punished.

(The rest were good reasons not to be rude, but those two cracked me up.)

[Ocean Annie]

The kid is all of eight or nine years old. Couldn’t mom just march junior into class and insist he apologize directly to the teacher. It seems counterproductive to publicly humiliate the child and keep him out of class.

[monstro]

I agree unconventional. There are a whole lot of effective punishments between doing nothing and media-covered public humiliation.

I don't think it's abusive but attention-whore parenting isn't something we should aspire to.

[Anomalous Reading]

A kid that young can't have done anything fucked up enough to deserve that treatment. Unless.... there's some bad parenting involved.

Did I miss the part where she carried a sign, too?

It's abusive. I've seen parents like that - they aren't stable. In a few years start checking the kid for bruises. If not sooner.

[MsWhatsit]

IMNSHO, parents who pull stunts like this just crave the media attention. "Oh, look, I'm getting news coverage about the l33t way that I'm publicly disciplining my child, that must mean I'm a great parent." I think a personal apology directly to the teacher would have been much more appropriate. (In addition to whatever other consequences the school and parents opted for, which hopefully would not include standing out on a public roadway holding up a sign like the kid was selling mattresses or something.)

[Anomalous Reading]

Discipline isn't about exacting revenge on our kids. It's teaching them how to resolve challenges and prevent them in the first place.

This is an undisciplined response to an undisciplined kid (or it would seem).

[olivesmarch4th]

It is difficult to accurately gauge the appropriateness of this reaction, but it strikes me as repugnant. It's hard to know without more information, like what the kid actually did and said and how often the behavior had occurred until that point. It would have to be pretty blatant and out of control to resort to that.

[Faruiza]

Well, as for how egregious his misbehavior was, or about taking him out of school, If we knew one thing, it would kill both of these questions with one answer.

Was he suspended from school by the administrators?

If so, that probably says a lot about whether or not he has a rap sheet, if it was gross misbehavior, and whether or not we can be indignant at the mother for taking him out of school on her own.

Based on my assumptions, it shoudn't have attracted media attention, that just adds to the humiliation factor, but I don't have a problem with the local people who HAPPENED to see it. Then again, I didn't breed, so any parent would say I don't have the experience to make any judgements. I just try to remember being a kid.

[Anomalous Reading]

If so, that probably says a lot about whether or not he has a rap sheet, if it was gross misbehavior, and whether or not we can be indignant at the mother for taking him out of school on her own.On what basis do you conclude this second grader has a rap sheet? Really?

Now.... I'll concede it looks like he was suspended...

[L. G. Butts, Ph.D.]

This is really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Humiliation is not an effective method of parenting and teaching. Yeesh, reminds me of some of the crap that a teacher of mine pulled when I was a kid. Took me decades to truly get over it.

[Ocean Annie]

Maybe he was suspended, but an out of school suspension is a serious consequence for being rude to the teacher. There is in school suspension for most misconduct/infractions. Out of school suspension is usually reserved for specific and more serious rule violations.

Hey, this second grader might have a rap sheet. The criminal element is young and dangerous these days. In fact, he could face life w/o parole by middle school.

[Dottygumdrop]

According to this link (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23174957-13762,00.html), the boy is an honor-roll student. It seems he wasn't suspended, but kept out of school by his mother, as punishment for being rude to his teacher!

[The Flying Dutchman]

While I believe the mother had good intentions, I'm a firm believer in avoiding deliberately humiliating your child in front of their peers for any reason. It is abusive. A good spanking in private is far preferable.

[Shirley Ujest]

How is this different than sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on?

[WILLASS]

I think she sounds like a grade A bitch IMHO. An honour roll student who was rude to his teacher but not disciplined by the school? It can't have been that bad then could it? I'll wager he'll be up a tower with a rifle or in the gutter with a crack pipe if she keeps humilating him like this. Poor kid.

[monstro]

How is this different than sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on?

How many kids appear on the six o'clock news when they're sent to the corner?

The woman should be forced to stand on the corner with a sign reading: "I pulled my son out of school just to get on TV!"

[DianaG]

If the only way that woman can get her eight-year-old's attention is to publicly humiliate him, I'd wager that she's already failed on the parenting front.

That's not parenting. That's grandstanding.

[fessie]

Discipline isn't about exacting revenge on our kids. It's teaching them how to resolve challenges and prevent them in the first place.


Gosh, I really like the way you put that. Very wise.

I could see doing it to a teenager, maybe, if they'd gone completely out of control (those hormones). Maybe? I don't know. Of course, the sign you'd want them to wear for teenage misbehavior ("I was drinking and having sex") wouldn't exactly have the desired shaming effect.

A little kid? No way.

Personally, my kids would never forgive me for doing something like that to them. It would drive a huge wedge between us.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

How is this different than sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on?

It's not- that would be cruel too. My sister remembers sitting in second grade (some 40 plus years ago) with a sign saying "baby" because she cried over something. It was extremely traumatizing to a sensitive, fragile kid.

Oh, and responsible parents aren't such a "rare" find anyway. They just are "rarely" in the news when they successfully raise children.

[furlibusea]

I have to admit that I did get a little smile from the article, until I really started to think about it. I am too used to dealing with parents who think it is "cute" to see their children be rude to people until they are teenagers and not so cute anymore. By then it is damn hard to teach manners.

The other thing is, as a parent who believes my job is to socialize my child, sometimes I think I am swimming upstream. On television it seems the norm is children being rude to people, and they are all presented as cute. I also hear her tell us stories of peers at school being terribly rude to their teachers and when teachers call to say something to the parents, the parents ask what that teacher did to the child to make them be rude. The group of kids she hangs out with are the kids who are never suspended or sent to the office, yet they are sometimes terribly rude. It kind of feels like the whole culture is conspiring to bring rude children, especially when I have to remind her yet again, at 14, to say please or thank you. We should be done with that by now.

What this woman did was wrong, and innapropriate, and giving up her role as the designated adult, but I can see the frustration that would lead to it. I can particularly see it when the kid is usually good and the missbehavior sideswiped her out of the blue.

[WILLASS]

I can particularly see it when the kid is usually good and the missbehavior sideswiped her out of the blue.

See, I think the exact opposite - if the kid is usually well behaved and in a moment of uncharacteristic anger was rude to a teacher surely they should more likely to be given a pass on this? Everyone has bad days, kids included, and this punishment doesn't seem to reflect that. As far as I can see it's a humiliating punishment for one minor lapse in self-control that no rational parent should ever enact except if they are an attention whoring nut job.

[Moirai]

It's abusive. I've seen parents like that - they aren't stable. In a few years start checking the kid for bruises. If not sooner.


Oh, come on. A poor decision of Mom's? Sure. Grandstanding? Absolutely. But abuse? No. And insinuating that this mother would or does physically abuse her child is way out in left field.

Get over yourself. It's a stupid stunt, but not every dumb thing is indicative of an "OMG TRAGEDY!!!!1111!!!"

:rolleyes:

Real abuse is serious, and shouldn't be cheapened by lumping it in with bullshit.

[Wee Bairn]

That's not parenting. That's grandstanding.

Agree- "look at me, I'm a great parent"- she could have gotten the same result by cancelling TV privileges for a week, now this kid is going to take shit from the other kids for the rest of his life. Myabe she'll get on TV though. :rolleyes:

[olivesmarch4th]

Real abuse is serious, and shouldn't be cheapened by lumping it in with bullshit.
You don't think this could in any way be construed as emotional abuse? If it happens one time as a last resort to a long-established pattern of behavior that's one thing, but an established pattern of overreacting and seriously disproportional and humiliating punishments can seriously fuck a kid up. We don't have much info here, but we now know that the kid wasn't even suspended and it was the parent's choice to keep him out of school even though he is apparently an Honor roll student. If I'm going to jump to conclusions it's going to be the conservative one--this kid's Mom is a controlling, reactive bitch.

[AWB]

I agree unconventional. There are a whole lot of effective punishments between doing nothing and media-covered public humiliation.

I don't think it's abusive but attention-whore parenting isn't something we should aspire to.

Unconventional, true.

But throughout the piece, the mom mentions that her son had lost his right to go to school, i.e., he'd been suspended. Frankly, it would take a hell of a rude comment for an 8-year-old to be suspended.

I applaud her for emphasising this in his mind. So the next time he feels like being rude, he'll also feel the shame, and think twice.

Nowadays, by the time a student gets to high school (the level at which I teach), they have lost any sense of shame they should feel for behaving badly. I'm sick of hearing "nigga!", "fuck", "shit", "bitch", and other profanities, seeing young men treat young women like objects, and an attitude of who-do-you-think-you-are,-Mr.B? from students who think they're God's gift to humanity.

Force-feed humility early on, I say.

[Moirai]

... now this kid is going to take shit from the other kids for the rest of his life.

Doubt it.

YMMV, of course.

[Faruiza]

On what basis do you conclude this second grader has a rap sheet? Really?

Now.... I'll concede it looks like he was suspended...

Nono. I meant colloquially. Not a real criminal rap sheet, just a standing history of the same behavior. That was an outside possibility, and not a conclusion I actually came to, just throwing another rock in the mystery stew.
Now that we have more info, and it appears that the kid in question was taken out of school by his mother and not suspended...it kind of freaks me out what kind of person that mother must be to do something that big for so little an infraction. What a bitch. What's she going to do if/when he does something really bad? *shudder*

[Anomalous Reading]

Now that we have more info, and it appears that the kid in question was taken out of school by his mother and not suspended...it kind of freaks me out what kind of person that mother must be to do something that big for so little an infraction. What a bitch. What's she going to do if/when he does something really bad? *shudder*And that's my point. A lack of proportion in one place is often related to a lack of proportion in another.

Additionally this is the act of an angry mom. And a controlling one - I'd think. Imo that doesn't bode well.

[Anomalous Reading]

Oh, come on. A poor decision of Mom's? Sure. Grandstanding? Absolutely. But abuse? No. And insinuating that this mother would or does physically abuse her child is way out in left field.

Get over yourself. It's a stupid stunt, but not every dumb thing is indicative of an "OMG TRAGEDY!!!!1111!!!"

:rolleyes:

Real abuse is serious, and shouldn't be cheapened by lumping it in with bullshit.In my experience people who are so flip about "mere" embarrassment are the ones who grew up with abuse...

I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass. I've seen this shit. I know what happens on both sides of some doors.

As an aside... did you know one of the best tells to know the long term prospects of a relationship with a person? Eye rolling. It signifies a lack of empathy and a tendency to be dismissive of other peoples opinions.

But then... I'm just a histrionic nitwit father of three well behaved kids...

[MissGypsy]

As an aside... did you know one of the best tells to know the long term prospects of a relationship with a person? Eye rolling. It signifies a lack of empathy and a tendency to be dismissive of other peoples opinions.

Not disputing, but do you have a cite for that? I'm a chronic eye-roller, as a way of non-verbally scoffing at some idiocy, and I notice one of my kids is starting to do it also, when he thinks I'm being unfair or mean. I'd just like to read more about this concept. Ok, little hijack over.

[Moirai]

In my experience people who are so flip about "mere" embarrassment are the ones who grew up with abuse...

I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass. I've seen this shit. I know what happens on both sides of some doors.

As an aside... did you know one of the best tells to know the long term prospects of a relationship with a person? Eye rolling. It signifies a lack of empathy and a tendency to be dismissive of other peoples opinions.

But then... I'm just a histrionic nitwit father of three well behaved kids...

Well, I'm a well-adjusted mother of two very well-behaved boys, and I had a great family and grew up knowing I was loved and cherished. So what?

And your silly "post psychology" is laughable.

[Jayn_Newell]

Now that we have more info, and it appears that the kid in question was taken out of school by his mother and not suspended...it kind of freaks me out what kind of person that mother must be to do something that big for so little an infraction. What a bitch. What's she going to do if/when he does something really bad? *shudder*
I have a feeling she's going to be one of those perfectionist mothers, who will be upset with him if he gets a mark as low as *gasp* a 93 on a test. Obviously he didn't study enough.

[Anomalous Reading]

Not disputing, but do you have a cite for that? I'm a chronic eye-roller, as a way of non-verbally scoffing at some idiocy, and I notice one of my kids is starting to do it also, when he thinks I'm being unfair or mean. I'd just like to read more about this concept. Ok, little hijack over.This touches on it. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/06/earlyshow/health/health_news/main517731.shtml) I know there's more stuff out there.

To me it's like a few things. We have very specific ways of letting people know that what they feel isn't valid, isn't worthy, is generally inconvenient... we can walk out, we can act dismissive, we can get mad, we can roll our eyes... anything that communicates that what a person feels is invalid... really needs to be watched cautiously.

I don't like a list of "don't's" though. I think the message is really just... try to connect. Try to understand. To appreciate where that person is coming from. Often that's enough - even if nothing else changes. If a person is TRULY just being unreasonable... some of the same instincts kick up (desire to leave, feeling they aren't being reasonable, etc).

Dunno. It's kinda complex and simple.

[MissGypsy]

This touches on it. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/06/earlyshow/health/health_news/main517731.shtml) I know there's more stuff out there.

To me it's like a few things. We have very specific ways of letting people know that what they feel isn't valid, isn't worthy, is generally inconvenient... we can walk out, we can act dismissive, we can get mad, we can roll our eyes... anything that communicates that what a person feels is invalid... really needs to be watched cautiously.

I don't like a list of "don't's" though. I think the message is really just... try to connect. Try to understand. To appreciate where that person is coming from. Often that's enough - even if nothing else changes. If a person is TRULY just being unreasonable... some of the same instincts kick up (desire to leave, feeling they aren't being reasonable, etc).

Dunno. It's kinda complex and simple.

Thanks! That gives me a place to start. What you're saying makes perfect sense, but I'd never thought much about it in those terms before.

[GusNSpot]

Well, in 20 - 30 years we may know if the woman did terrible harm to her child. Who among us is gonna keep track. Will you be posting about the horrible thing your well raised kid did so we can all see that you were talking through your asses today???
As a parent trying to be responsible, at least she is doing something. You would rather the smart mouthed punks roaming the streets and internet that are the usual product of todays parents?

We do not have enough information. Honor student does not mean he is not a psychopath. Maybe it is just the thing that will turn him into a productive member of society.

On the face of it, seems a bit overboard.

:: No job is too hard for the person who does not have to do it. ::

Got a teacher with a different perspective than most in the thread. Got EJsGirl who has done some wonderful parenting herself disagreeing. Hummmm, being an older guy I must be really old fashioned because I think trend to understand everyone about everything is plum nuts and leads to the tower shooters IMO.

It is the pit so jump on who you want but I'm in EJsGirl's & AWB's camp.....

YMMV

[Ocean Annie]

I applaud her for emphasising this in his mind. So the next time he feels like being rude, he'll also feel the shame, and think twice.



AWB, I am sure mom had good intentions, but there are much better ways to shape a child’s behavior. With his self esteem intact, emotions under control, and positive not hostile feelings towards the adult.

Often, parents/caregivers focus on punishing unwanted behavior instead of reinforcing desired behavior. This mother severely punished her child.

[danceswithcats]

A few observations: I note nothing in the original or linked article indicative that mom acted to draw news coverage. It happened, but may not have been part of her intent.

Everyone talks about self-esteem, but little attention is given to humility. We have sports teams where everyone gets a trophy, so no one has their feelings hurt. Horseshit. Losing, like winning, is part of life, and the sooner you learn how to do so graciously, the better off you are.

I'm happy that the attention my child draws is owing to her being polite, not that she's a self-absorbed little hellion.

[Clothahump]

The kid is all of eight or nine years old. Couldn’t mom just march junior into class and insist he apologize directly to the teacher. It seems counterproductive to publicly humiliate the child and keep him out of class.

Not in the slightest. It's an excellent way to get the message across that actions have consequences.

When Ted Poe was a judge here in Houston, he would sentence people to do stuff like this. His recidivism rate was substantially lower than anyone else.

There just isn't enough shame in our society any more.

[chela]

Wow, I am actually surprised the school system allowed that to happen on their property. I am quite sure our principal would be outside in a flash discouraging public humility of an 8 yo.

Yeah take responsibilty for your kid, but damn that is repugnant and hardly productive. make the punishment fit the crime, not some grandstanding display by a badass mom to her little shit.

What does he get if he tells a lie, breaks a toy or refuses to eat his veggies, a bigger sign on a cross?

and the news media applauded that? give me a break! :rolleyes:

[DianaG]

You would rather the smart mouthed punks roaming the streets and internet that are the usual product of todays parents?

The usual product? Seriously? Perhaps you should try getting more of your information about children from interacting with them, rather than reading newspaper articles about how out of control they are. :rolleyes:

Subjecting your child to public humiliation isn't "taking responsibility as a parent". It's abdicating that responsibility. It's saying "Well, the kid won't behave, I'm out of ideas, and this clearly isn't MY fault. Maybe I should make him carry a sign so that people know he's just rotten, and poor me has been dealt a bad hand. I mean really, what can I possibly be expected to do with this child?"

Perhaps the next time he misbehaves she should just brand him?

[WILLASS]

When Ted Poe was a judge here in Houston, he would sentence people to do stuff like this. His recidivism rate was substantially lower than anyone else.

I'd imagine though that this would be for adults who have been convicted of some kind of crime/misdameanor rather than an 8 year old kid who has commited some kind of unspecified act that the school doesn't appear to have seen fit to punish? I don't disagree with this tactic per se but I do feel that it was unnecessary in this case.

[WhyNot]

I've avoided posting so far because I agree with all of you. I think it's great to see a parent taking measures to curb poor behavior AND I think this was cruel AND I think it probably won't be a big deal in the long run AND I think maybe the kid might be psychologically damaged AND I think she was grandstanding AND I think maybe more parents should do such grandstanding AND I think she sounds like a control freak AND I think a little parental discipline early might be more effective than a judge's discipline later...

Bottom line: I don't know. She did what she thought best with the best information she had at the time. Do any of us do any differently?

[WILLASS]

I've avoided posting so far because I agree with all of you. I think it's great to see a parent taking measures to curb poor behavior AND I think this was cruel AND I think it probably won't be a big deal in the long run AND I think maybe the kid might be psychologically damaged AND I think she was grandstanding AND I think maybe more parents should do such grandstanding AND I think she sounds like a control freak AND I think a little parental discipline early might be more effective than a judge's discipline later...

Bottom line: I don't know. She did what she thought best with the best information she had at the time. Do any of us do any differently?

I definatley feel your pain, on the one hand it's easy to dismiss her as an overzealous nutcase but at least she's doing something, right? I do think that however good her intentions this isn't really an acceptable way to punish an otherwise well behaved 8 year old.

[Moirai]

Wow, I am actually surprised the school system allowed that to happen on their property. I am quite sure our principal would be outside in a flash discouraging public humility of an 8 yo.



Underlining mine...


I assume you meant "humiliation." Changes the sentence a bit.

[chela]

Underlining mine...


I assume you meant "humiliation." Changes the sentence a bit.

Righto.

Now that I reread the OP I have to wonder about this "rare find". By all accounts the op is a resonsible parent so what is so rare about that, or is it that he finds it rare for a black mother to take responsibility for her son? :dubious:

[WhyNot]

Now that I reread the OP I have to wonder about this "rare find". By all accounts the op is a resonsible parent so what is so rare about that, or is it that he finds it rare for a black mother to take responsibility for her son? :dubious:
Ouch. Way to play the race card. I'm fairly confident that the OP meant that yeah, if you read the newspapers and parenting books and watch Jerry Springer and COPS or go grocery shopping in an area with lots of children, it DOES look fairly rare for a parent to take responsibility for her son these days. That's what I meant, anyway. It never occurred to me that there was anything racial about it. It's a little "kids these days! :rolleyes: " but it's not racist.

[Sarahfeena]

I've avoided posting so far because I agree with all of you. I think it's great to see a parent taking measures to curb poor behavior AND I think this was cruel AND I think it probably won't be a big deal in the long run AND I think maybe the kid might be psychologically damaged AND I think she was grandstanding AND I think maybe more parents should do such grandstanding AND I think she sounds like a control freak AND I think a little parental discipline early might be more effective than a judge's discipline later...

Bottom line: I don't know. She did what she thought best with the best information she had at the time. Do any of us do any differently? Wow WhyNot...you really nailed it on this one. I couldn't figure out what I thought about it, either, and this is why. Any of what you say/what has been said in the thread could be true. Depends on the mom, on the kid, on the situation, etc. Hard to tell. Don't think I would do it, but on the other hand, I'm the kind of mom who could probably stand to be a little stricter about a lot of things. So who knows? Maybe I'm the one who's wrong.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Presuming that this incident is atypical for the child, a good parent would be able to elicit shame for undesirable behavior, reinforce appropriate behavior and motivate future compliance with rules and expectations without needing to use others to achieve results, as in this type of public humiliation.

If this incident is typical for the child, a whole host of other interventions are available, and the likelihood that her chosen intervention will make positive change is scant.

Most parents who take responsibility for their children do so without public fanfare or public spectacle. It's probably one of the reasons why a naive observer might consider it to be rare.

[Yookeroo]

Ouch. Way to play the race card. I'm fairly confident that the OP meant that yeah, if you read the newspapers and parenting books and watch Jerry Springer and COPS or go grocery shopping in an area with lots of children, it DOES look fairly rare for a parent to take responsibility for her son these days.

Then the OP needs to be a little more intelligent about the media.

[The King of Soup]

Well, what do you know. Somewhere in his internet travels, Danceswithscat has at last found an action taken by a black person that he can approve of -- harming her own child by overpunishing for a trivial offense. It's not his fault, though -- this unnamed woman is clearly the (http://www.barackobama.com/) black person most prominent in the news today. So he really had no choice.

In places other than the OP's current location, "taking responsibility" means, and has always meant, accepting one's own fair share of credit and blame, based on what you've done and what you have not done. It's hard to measure that accurately when you're talking about the actions of children, and downright impossible when you're the OP, but even allowing for that I can't see any definition that allows making your child hold up a sign explicating his guilt and shame while standing by and accepting credit for your parenting. A parent taking responsibility would be holding a sign up him-or-herself, with or without the child in question. A parent shares his/her child's shame as well as her/his joy.

I make lots of mistakes with my own children, which is why I'm reluctant to condemn or praise other parents based on news reports and my own prejudices. I will suggest this: that humiliation is the experience, more so than sadness or loss or frustration or even physical pain, that creates resentment and anger, and that those are the emotions we must most beware of, because they are so destructive and most likely to visit themselves on others and to perpetuate and spread.

In any event, parenting is as private and as blindly hopeful an act as praying. As friend Hentor has just put it better, both are often destroyed by public scutiny.

[danceswithcats]

Well, what do you know. Somewhere in his internet travels, Danceswithscat has at last found an action taken by a black person that he can approve of -- harming her own child by overpunishing for a trivial offense. It's not his fault, though -- this unnamed woman is clearly the (http://www.barackobama.com/) black person most prominent in the news today. So he really had no choice.

You're so fucking full of yourself. For your information, I didn't notice at first that the lad was black. The article didn't indicate his race, and the sign obscures most of him, save his little arms. Therefore, ergo, you dimwit, race had nothing to do with this thread. Not that you'll believe that, (and not that I give a fiddler's fuck either way) because you've decided to follow me around the SDMB, attempting to sound erudite while merely being a pompous jerk. Fuck off, already.

[Ocean Annie]

Everyone talks about self-esteem, but little attention is given to humility. We have sports teams where everyone gets a trophy, so no one has their feelings hurt. Horseshit. Losing, like winning, is part of life, and the sooner you learn how to do so graciously, the better off you are.

I'm happy that the attention my child draws is owing to her being polite, not that she's a self-absorbed little hellion.

Well, a person with high self esteem is more inclined to humility than a person with a negative self image. People with a healthy, positive self image usually have less need to prove their worth to others. The same can be said about good winners and losers. A good loser and winner will likely have self confidence. Self esteem is not overrated. A small child rewarded for risk taking, cooperation, positive peer interaction, and team work (e.g. every kid gets a trophy on the peewee soccer team) is more likely to take risks in the future, work well with others, and lose knowing that the effort is as valuable as the outcome.

Not in the slightest. It's an excellent way to get the message across that actions have consequences.

When Ted Poe was a judge here in Houston, he would sentence people to do stuff like this. His recidivism rate was substantially lower than anyone else.

There just isn't enough shame in our society any more.

A second grader does not have the same cognitive ability, social sophistication, or self control as an adult. Surely, anyone who interacts with children knows this intuitively. It’s not hard to observe the cognitive and social/emotional differences between children and adults or, as my mom used to say, you can't put an old head on young shoulders.

[The King of Soup]

You're so fucking full of yourself. For your information, I didn't notice at first that the lad was black. The article didn't indicate his race, and the sign obscures most of him, save his little arms. Therefore, ergo, you dimwit, race had nothing to do with this thread. Not that you'll believe that, (and not that I give a fiddler's fuck either way) because you've decided to follow me around the SDMB, attempting to sound erudite while merely being a pompous jerk. Fuck off, already.
I must apologize, honored OP. Of course (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=454784) I (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=454972) believe (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452621) that (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448912) your (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=446435) presence (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=445332) here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=439389) has (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=434182) nothing (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=434182) to do with race. It's just a big coincidence, one of continuing series in which you've repeatedly shown your ass, (usually disappearing behind the nearest bush). Sure, the picture in your own link didn't indicate race to you. Just as it means nothing now. Which is why, regardless of race, you suddenly have nothing whatever to say about the mother's actions, when most of the arguments against your OP address the issues you claim to be concerned about.

It's not that I follow you around -- who wants the odium even of being compared favorably to something like you? But I'm a one-time farmboy, and when I smell shit, I still instinctively reach for the shovel.

[danceswithcats]

You are as dumb as motherfucking rock. Unlike you and your band of merry shitstains, once my OP is posted, I don't wait to badger the hell out of others who simply wish to state a differing opinion. I don't get the tickle which you obviously do from attempting to argue the blue out of the goddamn sky.

I said:It seems a little bit extreme, but not knowing the problems she's faced with junior in the past, at least mom is not blaming others for her child's misbehavior, and is addressing it herself. For that alone, I give her thumbs up.Now that you want to play the race card, it is also clear that my OP praises the actions of a black woman. Gee-that kinda runs counter to how you wish to portay me, doesn't it?

Tell ya what, farmboy-if you're smelling shit, it's because of your own asshole, where your head spends a goodly portion of time firmly lodged.

[The King of Soup]

You know, dunce, now that I see the vast number of people who have jumped into the fray in the last twelve or fourteen hours to defend you and your point of view, I have no choice but to apolo-- oh, wait a second. On recount, that number appears to be, uh, approximately zero. So you remain not only your own best friend but also your only friend, which is nothing -- much -- for you to be ashamed of, at least compared to everything else.

Your insults, for example. They're unimaginative, repetitive, and suggest nothing in the way of quickness or cleverness so much as they evoke the image of a lazy slob who is now and always has been severely cognitively limited when under the slightest bit of stress. Come on: "motherfucking," "shitstain," and "asshole" are the forty-year-old's cognate of "Wahhh!" And you know it (or at least, it's been explained to you in small words). But you continue to trot them out as if they are new, just as you expect each new vacuous pitting to be received as a fresh proof, discovered by you, that humanity's progress toward egalitarianism is a big mistake.


.... it is also clear that my OP praises the actions of a black woman. Gee-that kinda runs counter to how you wish to portay me, doesn't it?
Dunce, you really have to have a talk with whoever is reading these threads to you. As I said, way too subtly because I was writing for humans, your praise of a black woman for overpunishing her black child for a trivial offense against authority doesn't exactly break the mold we've all come to recognize as uniquely, stupidly yours. Nobody but you wants to portray you, dunce: the role just isn't written well at all. Just as a for-instance, what kind of dough-brained moron would try to claim credit for "praising" a black woman in his OP only two posts after claiming that
....For your information, I didn't notice at first that the lad was black. The article didn't indicate his race....
There's evil, and there's bone-rattling stupid. Nobody, present company excepted, wants to play both at the same time.

Look. I know you're stupid, and I know you're committed, and I know you don't care about continually losing the argument because you think your only job is to keep the fight going, and you can always just start a new thread. Fine. I don't want to change you or suppress you, I just want to make fun of you and keep everybody up to speed on what you are and what you're doing. Think of it as a small addition to the cost of your advertising here. I feel the least I can do is to speed up the rate at which you're making everyone sick of you.

[AWB]

AWB, I am sure mom had good intentions, but there are much better ways to shape a child’s behavior. With his self esteem intact, emotions under control, and positive not hostile feelings towards the adult.

Often, parents/caregivers focus on punishing unwanted behavior instead of reinforcing desired behavior. This mother severely punished her child.

Granted, there should be a step-wise level of punishment (yes, punishment): 1st offences are easier-going, more severe the more often it happens.

(Positive behaviors should also be rewarded. Not money-for-grades, but general praise or permission to go to special events.)

But there has to be *some* level of guilt/bad-feelings/esteem-lessening that discourages repeat behavior.

I know the few times that my parents yelled, spanked, or made me feel bad for what I'd done were effective. After that, I never crossed the street without permission, threw mud at passing cars, or stayed out past curfew drinking (respectively).

When I call students' parents about undesirable behaviors, I get quite a few "it'll never happen again"s. But inevitably, the behaviors happen again.

Even our school's graduated "punishments" wouldn't be punishments if I were a student. If it's a serious-enough offense, a student gets in-school suspension (1 day in a windowless room with other miscreants, doing assignments [supposedly]). What punishment is it to be taken out of the class that you misbehaved in, probably because you don't like it?

After that are 3-, 5-, 10-, and 30- day suspensions. Gee: 1) you get to stay at home, 2) your teachers have to make up special assignments for you to complete while you're out, 3) you get to make up all other assignments (tests & quizzes) that you missed, usually within the same number of school days that you missed.