Why didn't the US claim the moon?

[MadHatter]

Seems to me like it would have been a good idea. With the Cold War happening and everything, why didn't Armstrong lay his flag in to the lunar surface and say:

"I claim this moon as sovereign soil for the United States of America."

Well, why not? They got their first, they keep it, right?

[BobT]

I believe the US signed an international agreement of some kind that said that no one country could claim any other celestial body.

Besides, it would have been tacky to do so.

[Alessan]

Because you only claim what you think you can hold.

[muppetsoup]

bobt is correct, we signed a treaty declaring the moon 'the property of all mankind'. kind of like antarctica i guess.

[Reboot42]

I think it was a diplomatic suggestion to not do so because I dimly recall around the time that we were getting closer to landing there, France, England, Germany, Canada and some other nations were expressing concern over one nation owning an entire world. There were great concerns that the US and/or Russia would do just that and promptly start establishing military bases there.

Back then, with the limited technology we had, it would have been almost impossible to knock out a moon base from Earth, but very easy to launch mass missile attacks on any corner of the globe. Plus, with the radar and security systems then in use, a moon launch might go undetected until it was in the atmosphere, right over the target and too late to stop.

I still think we should have claimed it because then we'd still be going back there. Major corporations just hate to see undeveloped, potentially exclusive territories go unspoiled. By now we'd probably have Moon Disney, the Moon Hilton, exclusive Moon vacation rent-a-cottage, and Moon McDonalds. Not to mention Moon Area 51, which would draw every UFO nut there to rent rooms in Moon Motel 6.

Plus, someone would just have to go Moon Boarding, Moon Base Jumping, Moon Buggy Racing, Moon Mountain Climbing and Moon Survival Camping.

[BobT]

The treaty in force in 1969 can be found here
http://www.state.gov/www/global/arms/treaties/space1.html

The bigger concern was somebody using the moon or an orbiting space station to lob atomic bombs on the people below.

There is a newer treaty which was signed in 1979 and went into force in 1984.

It can be found here
http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/icon/ost/moontxt.html

I haven't been able to find out who has signed this treaty.

[AWB]

Originally posted by Alessan
Because you only claim what you think you can hold.

But has anyone else been there? Why waste funds to defend it when nobody else can get there.

I say it's ours! We oughta charge other countries for the romantic moonlight our property is shining down on them. :D:D

[flodnak]

At the time, remember, the US and the USSR were trying to win allies among non-aligned nations. The space race was an attempt on the part of both nations to "win the hearts and minds of people" as it was called, by not only showing technological superiority but also doing something that held the fascination of the ordinary person. The lunar missions were just perfect for this. Claiming the Moon for one country rather than coming in peace for all Mankind would have really messed up the psychological impact and made the US look like the greedy bad guys.

[cleosia]

In general, you have to be able to either settle or make improvements to have a solid claim to a piece of property if you're squatting. Last I saw we had no colonies there and you could hardly call the garbage we left behind "improvements."

On a side note: I think it would be interesting, if we ever did foolishly blow ourselves back to the stone age, to see how our descendants explained the space junk on the moon. Aliens?

[Meephead]

I still think we should have claimed it because then we'd still be going back there. Major corporations just hate to see undeveloped, potentially exclusive territories go unspoiled. By now we'd probably have Moon Disney, the Moon Hilton, exclusive Moon vacation rent-a-cottage, and Moon McDonalds. Not to mention Moon Area 51, which would draw every UFO nut there to rent rooms in Moon Motel 6.

Plus, someone would just have to go Moon Boarding, Moon Base Jumping, Moon Buggy Racing, Moon Mountain Climbing and Moon Survival Camping. [/B]

And what about Moon Pies? :D Oh wait...we already have those...Silly me! :wally

[MetropoChris]

LOL. In fact that is the question that brought me to this site. I am one of the biggest sceptics on Cons. Theorys but for some reason this idea intrigued me, and in my search I found "The Straight Dope"
Havent left since! Anyone here hold on to this doubt of the US's lunar arrival?

[Junior Spaceman]

Originally posted by MetropoChris
Anyone here hold on to this doubt of the US's lunar arrival?
There's a current thread here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=43775) where this conspiracy theory is debunked (or at least most of the supposed 'evidence' given for the theory is shown to be faulty).

Basically, you have to compare the small amount of 'evidence' that the moon-hoax believers put forward, most of which can quite easily be answered by someone with knowledge of photography, compared to the masses of evidence that suggest man actually did go to the moon (including personal testimonies from thousands of people who worked on different aspects of the projects).

HenrySpencer

[labradorian]

Originally posted by AWB
Originally posted by Alessan
Because you only claim what you think you can hold.

But has anyone else been there? Why waste funds to defend it when nobody else can get there.

I say it's ours! We oughta charge other countries for the romantic moonlight our property is shining down on them. :D:D


That's fine. We'll just bill youse Americans this winter for the lovely Canadian northern lights shining down on you. Not valid in Alaska.

[mrblue92]

IIRC, Neil Armstrong wanted to make his first words on the moon, "I claim this land for Texas," but was talked out of it.

[Gnarly Narly Dude]

International agreements are made to be broken.

If there was anything worth defending up there, I'm sure we'd claim it.

[DougC]

International agreements are made to be broken.
If there was anything worth defending up there, I'm sure we'd claim it. - G.N.D.
- - - Damn straight.
- The major factor in the commercialization of space is the vague ownership and law issue, and the people with the most guns up there will very likely make the rules. Hopefully W gets in and we can continue our "UnStar NotWars, but very similar" projects. - MC

[MattTheCroc]

If it wasn't for the US, then what was the US flag for?

[AWB]

Originally posted by labradorian
Originally posted by AWB
Originally posted by Alessan
Because you only claim what you think you can hold.

But has anyone else been there? Why waste funds to defend it when nobody else can get there.

I say it's ours! We oughta charge other countries for the romantic moonlight our property is shining down on them. :D:D


That's fine. We'll just bill youse Americans this winter for the lovely Canadian northern lights shining down on you. Not valid in Alaska.

The Northern Lights are to make up for those @!#?@! Canadian cold fronts that you send down. :D

[Coldfire]

Originally posted by muppetsoup
bobt is correct, we signed a treaty declaring the moon 'the property of all mankind'. kind of like antarctica i guess.

Antarctica is a slightly different case. While no country actually owns it, the continent is divided into "claims" that have been made by several countries.
There is a treaty saying that no actual declarations of property will be made and/or recognised on Antarctica. It is signed by 19 of the 26 consultative countries. Of those 19, the United States and Russia have expressed that they DO reserve the right to declare property themselves at any time in the future, but they will not recognize the current claims that have already been in existence for sometimes more than 100 years. Rrrrright. Sounds fair enough :rolleyes:

See this map (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/islands_oceans_poles/Antarctic_Region_2000.jpg) for more information.

[Adolph Peewee]

Originally posted by MattTheCroc
If it wasn't for the US, then what was the US flag for? Probably because "EARTH" doesn't have a flag....unless you wanna go for something like the UN...but that wasn't around then was it?? I'm too young to know..or say anything intelligent for that matter! :wally

[mrblue92]

the UN...but that wasn't around then was it?? Sure was... and I'm not old enough to remember, either...

Could have used the Olympic flag, too.

"I declare the first Lunar Olympics open. I also declare that since the U.S. is the only country in attendance, we win all the medals by default. I therefore declare the games closed..."

But since it was a whole Cold War patriotism, run the commies nose in it deal...

[mrblue92]

run the commies nose in itUm, "rub" not "run". Though giving all the Russians runny noses would have been neat. ;)

[Whack-a-Mole]

But has anyone else been there?

Nope...only the United States has landed people on the moon. Other countries may have sent probes but I'm not sure about that.

Basically the place wasn't interesting enough to go to the expense of sending people to the moon. After the US got bragging rights for being first no country could dig up reasons compelling enough to bother with the effort.

[flodnak]

Originally posted by Jeff_42
Other countries may have sent probes but I'm not sure about that.
In fact, the very first contact with the moon was a Soviet probe that basically ran right into it. The Soviets also had a Moon program, but abandoned it once it was clear the US was going to win.

[Gazoo]

Originally posted by MadHatter
"I claim this moon as sovereign soil for the United States of America."

Well, why not? They got their first, they keep it, right?
Do you know what the property taxes would run on a piece of real estate that size? And the insurance! Sheesh! I don't even want to think about it.

[kpm]

I knew a guy who worked for NASA in the 60's. He said they knew the Soviets would not get to the moon but they played up the whole "space race" thing just to make sure they got plenty of funding - and it worked.

[Irishman]

MattTheCroc asked:
If it wasn't for the US, then what was the US flag for?

There's a difference between claiming the moon as US property, and leaving a sign "We were here first!"

Sorry no cites for this, I went looking and couldn't dig them up quickly. There was at least on someone's mind the idea of planting some sort of generic Earth flag rather than an individual U.S. one, but Congress nixed that idea. The flag was planted as a pride thing - the equivalent of "John Doe was here." But it did not represent claiming the Moon (or the particular landing zones) for the U.S.

The Russians did have a moon program. They sent robotic probes that even returned samples. But their manned program didn't get there.

kpm, I seriously doubt that claim. For one, the Soviets were ahead of the U.S. in every major space hurdle up to that point, and the U.S. had to be bold to leapfrog them to the moon. Second, the U.S. program had to shuffle their schedule to rush the first landing because they were worried about meeting Kennedy's deadline. They were seriously worried about the Russians getting there first. At the time the Soviets were beginning to have major troubles, but they were covering that up very well - the U.S. did not learn the full extent of their program's difficulties until the USSR fell and Russia began international cooperation with the ISS. It was a state secret.

[Wrath]

Well, the cool thing is, the Sea of Tranquility is up for grabs. I'm gonna build a rocket and claim it. Any investors interested?