What would happen if Clinton or McCain used the "n-word"?

[Dilton Doiley,Philosopher King]

Let's pretend that a grainy cellphone video of Hillary Clinton or John McCain is posted on Youtube and in the video, the respective candidate is shown talking about Barack Obama, and the candidate uses the "n-word", either in describing or referring to Obama, or in a more casual usage (such as referring to people in their past, or telling an off-color joke).

In the case of Clinton/Obama, let's assume it is pre-nomination, and in the case of McCain/Obama, let's assume that both McCain and Obama won their party's nomination and are now preparing for the general election.

What would happen, in the short term and the long term? Would the offending candidate be removed from the race? How would this be reflected in the media... for example, if a major political candidate uses that word and presumably feels that way, is it safe to say that the same mentality is present in a significant number of the candidate's constituency?

[Odesio]

Naggers?



Marc

[Phlosphr]

Sadly, the offending party would still get votes...But they certainly would not win. IMHO.

[jtgain]

It would really depend on the FULL context to see if McCain or Hillary could spin his or her way out of it. You've got a range of options from:

1 ) Extreme bad: "That no good nigger should be in the fields picking cotton instead of running for President"

2) Spinable: "I was watching Blazing Saddles the other night. Barack reminds me of the sheriff. The new President is a nigger! hehe and the other guy said near! "

Context..

[Menocchio]

The media is looking for an excuse to pronounce Clinton dead, and this would be it. It would also hurt her more with the superdelegates than the primary voters, but it would kill her campaign.

McCain would lose a significant amount of support, but more than that, he'd energize Obama's supporters, especially among African-Americans.

[furt]

A much more interesting question would be what would happen if Obama said it.

[The Controvert]

If Obama says it, nothing happens.

[stolichnaya]

What would happen if Obama killed a prostitute?

What would happen if Huckabee kidnapped the world's cutest puppy and forced it at knifepoint to eat a human fetus?

[furt]

If Obama says it, nothing happens.Sure about that?

I think it's a fairly obvious that if anyone opposing Obama says anything remotely racist, they're over. But this first-black-candidate thing puts him on a tightrope, too. Most all candidates are one awful joke away from losing, and he's no exception.

[nameless]

What would happen if Huckabee kidnapped the world's cutest puppy and forced it at knifepoint to eat a human fetus?I laughed real hard.

[The Controvert]

Sure about that?

I think it's a fairly obvious that if anyone opposing Obama says anything remotely racist, they're over. But this first-black-candidate thing puts him on a tightrope, too. Most all candidates are one awful joke away from losing, and he's no exception.Pretty sure. It's a double standard. Black people can say the n-word all day long and absolutely nothing will come of it. Obama can drop n-bombs over and over on national TV and a chorus of Obama supporters will figure out a way to defend him. And people who would've voted for him before will vote for him anyway. They'd rationalize it by saying he meant the -az ending.

[Mosier]

Naggers?



Marc

You've been watching too much South Park.

[brazil84]

Pretty sure. It's a double standard.

It seems to me that in the US, people are given a lot more leeway in using ethnic slurs if the slur applies to their own group. If Giuliani had used a word like "dago" or "guinea," it would be much less of a problem than if another (non-Italian-American) candidate had used it.

[Bryan Ekers]

It would really depend on the FULL context

That would make this election downright remarkable and unprecedented.

[Little Nemo]

If it was Clinton, she'd be toast. Assuming she gets the nomination, she's already going to need to rebuild support among the black voters she'll need to win the election.

If it was McCain, it would have less impact. If he's running against Obama, he will have probably already conceded the black vote is lost to him so it wouldn't move him any deeper in the hole. It would have a greater effect if he were running against Clinton. As I wrote above, she'd need to regain black voters and having McCain revealed as a racist would bring them back to her.

[Jragon]

To me: Though it won't change my dislike of HRC (has to do with her support of Jack Thompson if you must ask), if I want to consider it a mark against any cadidate I need context. Are they telling a joke? Is it about a person or just in general? Everyones allowed the occasional racist joke, in fact I think that's a step forward in racism when those can come to be accepted now and again with no hard feeling to any party. If it's about any person Obama or not, explicitly or implied. It's a big x next to their name (not that x doesn't mean don't vote it simply means a negative mark on their "profile").

Overall: The public will probably overreact. There is a chance they can spin their way out, but the media will jump on it and the rights activists and everyone against <cadidate> will jump on it. All in all, they'll lose a significant portion of votes most likely.

[tnetennba]

The media is looking for an excuse to pronounce Clinton dead, and this would be it. It would also hurt her more with the superdelegates than the primary voters, but it would kill her campaign.

McCain would lose a significant amount of support, but more than that, he'd energize Obama's supporters, especially among African-Americans.

The media are (it's a plural noun, you see) only interested in stories. They don't want Clinton dead, they want narrative. I assure you Obama supporters are convinced they want Hillary to win. They refer to "Clinton News Network," etc. But you're both wrong. They don't have favorite. They would love to catch Obama smoking crack or Hillary shagging McCain. They want anything newsy and scandalous that gets people to watch the news instead of American Idol.

Anyway, it would kill Clinton, no matter what the context short of reading Huck Finn aloud to school kids (and even then... who knows?) Right now it would play into the narrative of Hillary falling apart. I think they might prefer a narrative of unsinkable Hillary since it would go on longer, but they'll take what they can get. McCain would be less scandalous -- does anyone doubt he's never told a racist joke or used a racial epithet? -- and possibly not change the dynamic of the election. Frankly, I don't think singing "Bomb Bomb Iran" to the tune of a Beach Boys hit is much less offensive in the way racial epithets are offensive (FTR, I just roll my eyes at both, so don't bother calling me names.)

It would be more suicidal for McCain to make some remark about Christians right now, or even something anti-semitic, at least terms of eroding his chances of shoring up the conservative vote while reaching out to the middle. However, it really would depend on context.

[appleciders]

If it was McCain, it would have less impact. If he's running against Obama, he will have probably already conceded the black vote is lost to him so it wouldn't move him any deeper in the hole. It would have a greater effect if he were running against Clinton. As I wrote above, she'd need to regain black voters and having McCain revealed as a racist would bring them back to her.
I don't think that I, as a white person, would look favorably on McCain using racial slurs either.

[Czarcasm]

Pretty sure. It's a double standard. Black people can say the n-word all day long and absolutely nothing will come of it. Obama can drop n-bombs over and over on national TV and a chorus of Obama supporters will figure out a way to defend him. And people who would've voted for him before will vote for him anyway. They'd rationalize it by saying he meant the -az ending.I'm sorry, but what?? Are you honestly saying you think Obama could drop the N-bomb repeatedly on national television and wouldn't get called on it? That it wouldn't effect his chances of getting the nomination?
Are you serious?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

There is no way Obama would get away with dropping a "my nigga" over an open mike. He's not Chris Rock. He's being scrutinized under a much different standard. There are an awful lot of people who are waiting breathlessly for any kind of slip up or scandal from Barack Obama. That would instantly become the dominant story in the news cycle, righty talk show hosts would pound it into the ground and widespread handwringing over the "double-standard" would saturate the media (and there would probably be at least nine threads about it on the SDMB). He would have defenders, but they would get shouted down. He would apologize but it wouldn't matter. His bubble would be popped. There is absolutely no way in hell he could recover from something like that. I actually think he'd take a worse media bashing for dropping an N-bomb than even Hillary or McCain would. Anyone who thinks the media would ignore it is kidding themselves.

I think it's kind of a silly hypothetical, though, since Obama is simply not going to do that. He's not only too smart politically, it just is not part of his character to use that kind of language.

Incidentally, John McCain has used a racial slur before (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/02/18/MN32194.DTL), specifically, he said "I hate gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." The media didn't care that much. McCain later said he was only talking about the VC captors who had imprisoned and tortured him for 5 1/2 years. I don't think the press was inclined to push him too much on that.

[The Controvert]

Or, on the other side of the coin, what if Obama is debating Hillary and he calls her "bitch"? Or if he calls McCain a "honkey"? He immediately apologizes. Any Obama supporters willing to state that you are changing your vote based on that? Who do you instead vote for?

[Czarcasm]

Or, on the other side of the coin, what if Obama is debating Hillary and he calls her "bitch"? Or if he calls McCain a "honkey"? He immediately apologizes. Any Obama supporters willing to state that you are changing your vote based on that? Who do you instead vote for?Oooh! And what if Hillary shoots Obama with her phaser?
Look, can we at least try to keep this discussion limited to realistic probabilities, not wild fantasies where the candidates act totally out of character?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Or, on the other side of the coin, what if Obama is debating Hillary and he calls her "bitch"? Or if he calls McCain a "honkey"? He immediately apologizes. Any Obama supporters willing to state that you are changing your vote based on that? Who do you instead vote for?
What if McCain skins and fucks a puppy during a debate? None of these scenarios is going to happen so it's pointless to talk about.

By the way, "honky" is not remotely comprable to "nigger."

[tnetennba]

I think if Obama used the word "honkey" it would be extremely funny. Especially if he followed it up with, "It's OK -- I can say that. My mom's a honkey."

[Jolly Roger]

I think if Obama used the word "honkey" it would be extremely funny. Especially if he followed it up with, "It's OK -- I can say that. My mom's a honkey."

Maybe if he said it on Saturday Night Live. Otherwise it would probably be a mistake.

[Tyrrell McAllister]

Pretty sure. It's a double standard. Black people can say the n-word all day long and absolutely nothing will come of it. Obama can drop n-bombs over and over on national TV and a chorus of Obama supporters will figure out a way to defend him. And people who would've voted for him before will vote for him anyway. They'd rationalize it by saying he meant the -az ending.

I find that very implausible. I would be more convinced if you could cite a single black political candidate who won election after being caught on tape using that language.

You are right that there are double-standards, but you have forgotten one of them. Acceptable behavior for a presidential candidate is much more highly constrained than for the rest of us. People may not blink when a gangsta rapper says "nigga", but they sure aren't going to elect him president.

[Jurph]

Incidentally, John McCain has used a racial slur before (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/02/18/MN32194.DTL), specifically, he said "I hate gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." The media didn't care that much. McCain later said he was only talking about the VC captors who had imprisoned and tortured him for 5 1/2 years. I don't think the press was inclined to push him too much on that.

This is one area where I really worry about McCain. Could he be objective while conducting affairs of state with Vietnam? Would he be able to travel there and remain level-headed if they hosted the ASEAN conference and he were asked to speak?

Having used the word "gook," I assume he harbors some resentment (and Lord knows I forgive him that) but how deep does his feeling go? Does he think the Chinese are basically no different? Our relationship with China is going to get very interesting in this next term -- I don't want him flipping out and deciding to play "nuke the gook" because he had a flashback.

[JRDelirious]

By the way, "honky" is not remotely comprable to "nigger."


I thought the match for "nigger" was "DEAD honky"... :p

[Elendil's Heir]

This is one area where I really worry about McCain. Could he be objective while conducting affairs of state with Vietnam? Would he be able to travel there and remain level-headed if they hosted the ASEAN conference and he were asked to speak?....

As the article noted, McCain took the lead in normalizing trade relations with Vietnam a decade ago (and, incidentally, provided invaluable political cover to President Bill Clinton in doing so). If I were a Vietnamese leader, I wouldn't be too concerned about John McCain with his finger on The Button. He seems quite capable of distinguishing between those individuals who tortured him and his comrades in the Hanoi Hilton, and every other Vietnamese.

As to the OP: It would destroy Hillary's candidacy, given the reliance the Democrats place on the black vote. It would badly hurt McCain, given the widespread taboo against the word even among Republicans (and even more so among the independents who've supported him in the past), but he might survive it, given his straight-talk persona. But it would be little more than a bump in the road for Obama, with a week or two of much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth about double standards, yada yada yada, but he'd get past it without too much trouble, I'd expect.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Oooh! And what if Hillary shoots Obama with her phaser?
Look, can we at least try to keep this discussion limited to realistic probabilities, not wild fantasies where the candidates act totally out of character?

Where do you get the idea that it's any more likely that McCain or Clinton will call Obama a nigger than it is that he'd call Clinton a bitch?

[Bill Door]

Where do you get the idea that it's any more likely that McCain or Clinton will call Obama a nigger than it is that he'd call Clinton a bitch?


You're right. I'd never call Obama a nigger, but as for calling Clinton a bitch? I might. I'd bet that a lot more people have described her as a bitch than him as a nigger. For one thing, she's been alive longer. For another, she sure can be bitchy.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Where do you get the idea that it's any more likely that McCain or Clinton will call Obama a nigger than it is that he'd call Clinton a bitch?
Personally, I don't think any of these scenarios are likely but I think it's marginally less unlikely one of the candidates would get caught saying something off camera than that they would bust out a "bitch" or a "nigger" during a public debate.

[Miller]

What would happen if Huckabee kidnapped the world's cutest puppy and forced it at knifepoint to eat a human fetus?

He'd get my vote.

[Liberal]

This whole thread is just... bizarre.

[John Mace]

If it was a "grainy cellphone video", it would probably be fake.

But this is a silly question, in light of the macaca incident during the 2006 Senate campaign. That destroyed Allen, and this would be much worse.

Now, let's get on to more important topics, like what if Hillary got pregnant by Obama? How would that affect the campaign?

[SmackFu]

That would be tough for her since there's also an election in 9 months.

[tnetennba]

Since she's 60 years old, it would be a miracle.

[John Mace]

Since she's 60 years old, it would be a miracle.
Then it would have to be Huckabee who did her.

[OneCentStamp]

Oooh! And what if Hillary shoots Obama with her phaser?
Look, can we at least try to keep this discussion limited to realistic probabilities, not wild fantasies where the candidates act totally out of character? :confused:

As far as I can tell, this thread was started on wild fantasies of candidates acting totally out of character. Do you really think it's any more plausible that HRC would be caught saying "nigger" than that Obama would call her a bitch?

To respond, I think Obama would be in deep, deep shit if he called any woman bitch.

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Personally, I don't think any of these scenarios are likely but I think it's marginally less unlikely one of the candidates would get caught saying something off camera than that they would bust out a "bitch" or a "nigger" during a public debate.

Yeah, but the circumstances of where the comment was made shouldn't have caused Czarcasm to have a hissy fit. It's the same question if we said "Obama caught on tape calling Clinton a 'bitch' or McCain a 'honkey,'" right?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

To respond, I think Obama would be in deep, deep shit if he called any woman bitch.

Certainly not as much trouble as either one of the white candidates would be if they called Obama a nigger. A bitch isn't just a general insult for a woman, it's also a comment on her character. And a pretty apt one, as far as the general populace thinks. Perhaps referring to her as a 'slit' or 'slash'* might be a better parallel.

*two terms that are used infrequently, but they're the only ones I can think of that could be similarly insulting to a woman without being a comment on their individual character.

[OneCentStamp]

Certainly not as much trouble as either one of the white candidates would be if they called Obama a nigger. A bitch isn't just a general insult for a woman, it's also a comment on her character. And a pretty apt one, as far as the general populace thinks. Perhaps referring to her as a 'slit' or 'slash'* might be a better parallel.Cunt is a term I've heard used a few times, and even though I'm not a big fan of hers, I cringe every time.

[Sampiro]

What would happen if Huckabee kidnapped the world's cutest puppy and forced it at knifepoint to eat a human fetus?

Was the fetus already aborted and going to be used for stem cells, or was it a Sharon Tate type deal?

In response to the OP, it would be bad.

If it were McCain then Fox News would lead with "John McCain (D-Arizona) Uses N-Word- Huckabee Raises Heath Ledger From Dead" or if it were Clinton they'd lead with "Hillary Clinton (D-Jew York) Says Nigger, Sources Say She Called Rice a 'Nappy Headed Ho' and Speaks of "Final Solution to the Irish". For CNN, if I were his campaign manager I'd make sure that Natalie Holloway's body was found or that Michael Vick was given a children's reality show or that Britney ran over a blind nun holding a panda cub sometime the next week, because then they'd forget all about it and only focus on that scandal.

[Liberal]

You knew that Bill is Irish, right?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

Cunt is a term I've heard used a few times, and even though I'm not a big fan of hers, I cringe every time.

Yeah, I thought about that, but it's another term, like bitch, that correlates with 'jerk', in my experience. Perhaps misogynists try to mask their bigotry a little bit better than racists, but all of the good anti-woman terms are loaded with decent reasons to dislike someone. 'Nigger' works as a catchall insult that doesn't allow for dispute.

[Sampiro]

You knew that Bill is Irish, right?

Shame on you as a Southerner! Bill is Scots-Irish- huuuuuuuuuuuge difference.

Besides, it's a Fox News report so who expects accuracy? ;)

[Triskadecamus]

Wow, the consensus is only white Democrats would find it offensive, especially if Obama used the word.

So, I guess some folks here think Republicans don't really mind racism, they only pretend to mind racism. And black people must actually like racism, I guess.

Seems a mighty simplistic way to look at the people you live with.

Tris

[ArizonaTeach]

To respond, I think Obama would be in deep, deep shit if he called any woman bitch.I'd like to see Shayna's response to that...her support of Obama is pretty precarious, you know, and I'd be curious if that tips it... :)

[foolsguinea]

It seems to me that in the US, people are given a lot more leeway in using ethnic slurs if the slur applies to their own group. If Giuliani had used a word like "dago" or "guinea," it would be much less of a problem than if another (non-Italian-American) candidate had used it.Yes, but am I allowed to call Tom Tancredo "that Sicilian bastard"?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

:confused:

As far as I can tell, this thread was started on wild fantasies of candidates acting totally out of character. Do you really think it's any more plausible that HRC would be caught saying "nigger" than that Obama would call her a bitch?

To respond, I think Obama would be in deep, deep shit if he called any woman bitch.
Perhaps with the notable exception of the bitch running against him...
:)