Another Oddity From Florida

[SoulFrost]

After 98% had reported in Florida, Bush was declared the winner. He was leading Gore by over 50,000 votes, at that time.

Now that 99% have reported, Bush's lead has dwindled to a measley 10,000 votes.

Where on earth did those 40,000+ Gore votes come from?

-David

[SoulFrost]

Still at 99% in Florida.

Now CNN's reporting a 6,000 vote lead for Bush.

Yahoo's reporting just a 1,500 vote lead.

Is that last 1% being counted almost totally Democrat, or is something odd going on?

-David

[Jimpy]

It's possible that a heavily Democratic area's results came in. In 1996 my precint votes something like 400-3 in favor of Clinton.

Any way, I can gurantee you there is going to be a recount. This election might not be decided for quite some time.

[SoulFrost]

Ha! Gore just retracted his concession.

If THIS isn't proof that every vote counts, nothing is!

Man, what a ride....

-David

[Jimpy]

1931 votes as a few minutes ago is all that seperate Bush and Gore in Florida. If the news media has to retract twice on Florida, they are going to look even stupider, if that is possible.

[Jimpy]

Correction-1831, my math isn't too hot at 4AM

[SoulFrost]

Well, CNN and YAHOO have just retracted their online headlines.

They've moved Florida BACK to the "Undecided" category, and changed the "Bush Wins" headlines to "Projected Lead".

I know what you mean, Jimpy--it's been a long night!

-David

[Jimpy]

CBS just pushed it back to "undecided" too.

[Zor]

The Bush lead is confirmed at 1,210 now, with over 5,000 absentee and overseas vote yet to come in...

[Jimpy]

According to the Florida Secretary of State, with all precincts counted, Bush won by 629 votes out of over 6 million cast. However, since that announcement, ABC has changed it's vote total to say that Bush has expanded his lead to a little over 3500. Five precints in Dade county are currently recounting their votes due to "irregularities" and that appears to be all of the outstanding votes (although technically those votes are already in the results, it's just that they could change).

[Jimpy]

OK, what happens now, you ask. Well, there will be a general recount that will take place later this week and will be more rigerous and perhaps take several days to do. Both Republicans and Democrats will watch the recount closely and EVERY SINGLE even remotely suspect ballot will be challenged by the party that would benifit most by voiding the ballot. If the loser could make a strong enough case, the challenge would end up in the House of Represenatives, which is controlled by the Republicans so you know how that would turn out. Don't rule out a court challenge either although that wouldn't stop the winner from taking office (someone has to be President).

Also, despite what the Florida Secretary od State said, there are "a few thousand" outstanding votes.

[Zor]

The latest Florida vote count according to CNN:

Bush: 2,902,733
Gore: 2,902,509
Difference: 224 Bush lead

This has got to be the closest presidential election ever in American history, or even world history; a mere 112 people could determine out future for the next four years...

The popular vote count by the way:

Bush: 47,063,088
Gore: 47,123,818
Difference: 60,730 Gore lead

Oh this is going to be interesting...

[SoulFrost]

My girlfriend just yelled upstairs that Gore had taken the National Popular vote. I couldn't get down there in time to see the figures.

Can anyone confirm?

-David

[SoulFrost]

Heh...thanks Zor!

:)
David

[Jimpy]

Gore took the nation vote, but with 100% of the Florida vote counted, Bush won by 224.

[Zor]

I wouldn't be so sure Jumpy, err... Jimpy :p

There are still absentee and overseas votes, plus the recount...

[Zor]

The United States is 224 years old, and it's future hinges on 224 votes :cool:

[Jimpy]

That's true. 100% of the precincts are counted. In theory the precincts should have all their absentee ballots counted by now. In practice, who knows. Overseas ballots (which typically are military people living abraod who tend to vote slightly Republican)may not all of reach the proper precinct yet.

(I see that ABC just now decided that the race was too close too call).

[Jimpy]

Bush has just expanded his lead to 906 votes.

[Homer]

Currently from CNN:

Gore 47,660,074
Bush 47,418,413
Nader 2,583,924

Fucking shit!

--Tim

[SoulFrost]

Now, is that "Fucking Shit!" in a good way or "Fucking Shit!" in a bad way?


;)
David

[Jimpy]

The Bush juggernaut is now up to a 926 vote lead in Florida.

I can see it now, Gore wins the vote, and Bush wins the election. Maybe then someone will finnaly support a constitutional amendment repealing the electoral college.

[Jimpy]

With Bush clinging to a 997 vote lead, I wonder how many of the 140,000 people who voted for Nader or one of the other canidates in Florida want their vote back.

[woolly]

Originally posted by Jimpy
Gore took the nation vote

An interesting turn of events. There were a couple of SDMB threads about what would happen if Bush won the popular vote but Gore had the numbers in the Electoral College. Turns out it might (just) be the other way around. :)

origiinally posted by Zor
This has got to be the closest presidential election ever in American history, or even world history

Have no idea about US elections but in Australia in 1961 the Government retained office by a single seat (Morton, Qld). Jim Killen (later Sir James) won by, IIRC, correctly 13 votes, which according to folklore were the preferences of members of the local branch of the Communist Party. This was exquisitely ironic as the centre-right Menzies Government would alway bang the Communist drum - "Better dead than Red" when under electoral pressure.
http://www.qld.liberal.org.au/history/federal/biogs/killen.htm

[Powers106]

I'm over in Paris and had to vote by absentee ballot (but to Georgia, not Florida). Since they had to be received before the election (DHL sent them for free), I'm sure Florida has been able to include them in their counts.

This election will probably turn into a great debate if Bush wins - because of the Nader effect (man, they may have to redefine the term "spoiler"), and also if Gore wins - there will be lots and lots of claims about voter fraud which allegedly always favors the democratic party...

I'll bet Al Gore won't be sending Nader any Xmas gifts this year...

I'm going to have to do a lot of explaining today to the French about how the electoral college works again (they'll say things like - since it's so close, why don't they just split the electoral votes for Florida and have a runoff election (sort of like they do in France)).

[Karellen]

Gore takes Wisconsin, 11 electoral votes, not that it matters. National polls now put Gore's lead at over 200,000.

What a night. Lead changes, retractions, recounts, oh my! First Lady wins senate, as does the corpse of Mel Carnahan. Whoever wins this one is gonna have his work cut out for him. Can you say "coalition government"?

Let's hope that next time voter turnout is up, way up. In the long view I'd settle for that silver lining.

[ladybug]

According to NBC, there may have been some ballot problems in Palm Beach County. Apparently the ballots were set up differently in that area, and some elderly people who thought they were casting votes for Gore actually voted for Buchanan. I'm not sure exactly how that could have happened, but I'll try to find a cite.

If anyone's curious, I just heard that 96,000 people in Florida voted for Nader.

[ladybug]

From the Associated Press (http://wire.ap.org):


Florida Recount Puts Race in Limbo

By WILL LESTER
Associated Press Writer

"The chaos in Florida was likely to be intensified by voter confusion in Palm Beach County when several dozen voters said they voted for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore because of ballots that were not clearly marked and had an arrow from Gore's name, listed second, pointing to the third hole on the ballot. Elections officials said the confusion was caused by making type on the ballots larger so voters could read them."

[Jman]

I also heard that the amount of Buchanan votes in question is near 4,000. If 95% of those are actually for Gore...Gore will win the election. Either way, I bet an EC amendment runs its course in the next 2 years.

Jman

(Please go Gore, Florida....PLEASE!!!)

[RM Mentock]

Originally posted by Jman
Either way, I bet an EC amendment runs its course in the next 2 years.

And probably to defeat. I can't imagine a substitute method that would satisfy enough people to pass.

[Diceman]

Last I heard Bush has a 1700 vote lead now. As for the thing in Palm Beach, call me cold-hearted but what is the state expected to do because some little old ladies didn't read their ballots carefully before voting? No state allows you to change your vote after the polls close. As for eliminating the EC, that'll fail because the small states will vote it down. They benifit from the Electoral College system. What I do support is having California divide it's electoral votes proprtionately, like Maine does. After all, it is not some big homogeneous block of voters.

[Rhythmdvl]

What is the Straight Dope on the Palm Beach fiasco? Are there any images on the net of the ballot? I'd be very interested in seeing how this could have duped so many voters. I found a description of the ballot here (http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/today/news_2.html) but the description doesn't do it justice.

I'm not one to lend much sympathy to someone who flies to Florida to claim the prize they may have won, but if the ballot layout was off enough to swing the election to Bush, I think I am off to GD to ask about what should be done. In the meantime (and since this is GQ) is there an image of the ballot out there? And if it is demonstrable that Buchanan received Gore votes is there anything that could legally (remember, we're in GQ) be done? Thanks.

[Munch]

Here's the ballot:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ELECTION_WatchdogPart4001107.html

As a Gore supporter, I just don't see what the fuss is. If you can't figure out that ballot, you shouldn't have been allowed to drive to the polling place.

[Guinastasia]

Think Jeb had something to do with the poor ballots?

Hmmm...
Idiots...

[Diceman]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Think Jeb had something to do with the poor ballots?

Hmmm...
Idiots...


I don't know, but I've hear allegations from Tallihassie that some ballot boxes are missing. I've posted a thread about this. This is beginning to look like a seriously fraudulent election in the Sunshine State.

[ladybug]

Originally posted by Jman
I also heard that the amount of Buchanan votes in question is near 4,000. If 95% of those are actually for Gore...Gore will win the election. Either way, I bet an EC amendment runs its course in the next 2 years.

Jman

(Please go Gore, Florida....PLEASE!!!)

I just heard on the local NBC station that there were about 3,500 votes cast for Buchanan in this area, which they say traditionally has voted Democrat.

Twenty-five overseas ballots were returned today, and many more are expected to come in over the next few days. The reporters said that those votes won't be counted until ten days from now.

I also heard that after the recount in one Florida county, Bush lost four votes and Gore gained four votes.

[Hello Again]

rhythm.. yes, there could be a class action lawsuit of Florida voters who may argue that their voter's rights were restricted by the confusing ballot. Because voter's rights generally extend to a clearly understandable ballot. Where it will go from there...?

The area with all the odd Buchanan votes was, I believe South Beach, an area with a large Jewish (and gay) population.

You'll be telling your grandkids about this one, Dopers.