It's official now - the election is fraudulent

[Una Persson]

This morning, upon arriving at work, I said during a political discussion here:

"Just wait. They'll find an abandoned ballot box mysteriously left behind in Florida, stuffed to the brim with Gore votes."

Everyone laughed. They're not laughing now, now that an abandoned ballot box has in fact been found, in a district that has been described as "nearly entirely Democratic".

It's really sad when the election process here appears so fraudulent that it looks like we need either the UN or the OAS to monitor our polling process, just to make sure that the ruling junta does not fix the election by tampering with the ballot boxes. This sort of thing really fucking scares me - and FTR, it would scare me equally so if it was found in a primarily Republican district instead.

When one combines stunts like this with the big push across the country by Democrats to keep key polling places open longer in Democratic stronghold districts (such as St. Louis), this election just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Of course, it could be a legitimate mistake. :rolleyes:

[Alphagene]

I'll be damned.

You can find the story here (http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/08/ballotbox.found/).

[waterj2]

CNN seems to be either the most cynicism-free organization I've ever seen, or they simply don't want to speculate at all. The most powerful position in the world is being decided on the basis of a boxfull of ballots found the next morning, and they treat it as an everyday occurrence. How many election workers forget the fucking votes when they pack up for the night? I mean, what the fuck?

I guarantee the next presidential election there will be new procedures and safeguards.

[dropzone]

::innocent face::
I'm from Chicago, so I fail to see what's irregular.
::/innocent face::

[Ike Witt]

Originally posted by Anthracite


When one combines stunts like this with the big push across the country by Democrats to keep key polling places open longer in Democratic stronghold districts (such as St. Louis), this election just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Of course, it could be a legitimate mistake. :rolleyes:

Wasn't the decision to keep polls open in St. Louis based on that fact that there were problems with the polling stations?

[SuaSponte]

Originally posted by waterj2
[snip] I guarantee the next presidential election there will be new procedures and safeguards.

Sadly, there won't be. Stuff like this has been going on for centuries. Heck, most historians agree that JFK wouldn't have been president but for a decision by Mayor Daley in Chicago that the most efficient counters for ballots from Republican wards were the fish in the Chicago River ;)

Sua

[pldennison]

This sort of thing, I'll bet, is not uncommon. Remember, these polling places are often in little school gyms and church basements, and are staffed by volunteers, who are often retirees and housewives. This isn't high-tech stuff, here, and the potential for human error is enormous.

In fact, I seem to remember some votes that went uncounted for some time in one of the local Ohio races either in the primaries or the last off-year elections. You probably don't hear about them if they aren't something affecting a race at the national level, but I'd wager it's more common than election workers would like to admit.

[Munch]

Robots. We need some fucking robots.

(profanity added due to being in the fucking Pit)

[Crunchy Frog]

Originally posted by Anthracite
When one combines stunts like this with the big push across the country by Democrats to keep key polling places open longer in Democratic stronghold districts (such as St. Louis), this election just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I can't speak for the rest of things, but the situation in St Louis (as I understand it) is that people who were registered and voted in the last election were for some reason not allowed to vote this time. There were also faulty equipment problems and other considerations to leave the polls open. The polls in St Louis were only left open for 1 extra hour, and the state went Republican in the Presidential race anyway, so it doesn't seem to have affected the outcome much.

[Demo]

Well, thank god we have the electoral college!

Ok, I'll go now...

;)

[jazzmine]

CNN.com says the box was filled with supplies not votes.

[Guinastasia]

I heard they tried to keep it open because the lines were so long and so many had not gotten in to vote yet...

[2nd Law]

When I was a Republican election judge here in Chicago (not so much because I'm a Republican as a contrarian. If I was living in my home town in western Michigan, I'd probably be a registered Democrat) not so long ago, the election supplies came in a large blue metal box about 4 feet high, which served as the depository for the ballots during voting. After the voting was completed, the ballots were removed, counted, and taken to a central location for reporting, and the supplies were returned to the large metal box for later pickup by the election commission. My guess is that the person in Florida found the local equivalent of the big box and didn't realize that what it actually was.
Though, I have to say that my thought when I first saw the story was "This sounds like Landslide Lyndon returning from the grave."

[Shayna]

CNN.com says the box was filled with supplies not votes.

Can you provide a link, please? I've been reading CNN.com all day and I can't find any reference to there being supplies in that box. Thanks.

[Alphagene]

Originally posted by Connor
Robots. We need some fucking robots.
Nah, they'd be biased toward Gore.

[porcupine]

The main http://www.cnn.com page says it was filled with supplies, not votes. But when you follow the link, the story says no such thing... (at this posting, anyway)

[Amok]

The main http://www.cnn.com page says it was filled with supplies, not votes. But when you follow the link, the story says no such thing... (at this posting, anyway)


I know when I looked at the main cnn site earlier today, the text of the hyperlink made no mention of it being supplies, just that a box had been found. I suspect this is "latebreaking news" and they haven't had a chance yet to write a new article and post it.

[Guinastasia]

SHIT!!! Stupid clear field button.
Anyhoo, don't knock robots! Crow T. Robot, Tom Servo, Gypsy? ;)
And people were saying Gore was TOO emotional just a week or so ago...you can't win, can ya?

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by porcupine
The main http://www.cnn.com page says it was filled with supplies, not votes. But when you follow the link, the story says no such thing... (at this posting, anyway)
Same thing I noticed. Welcome to the Roller Coaster O'
Fun! Wheee!

Here's something that may shock some of you.

I don't like Gore. (okay, that's not the shocker)

I feel the situation in Florida will never be accepted by most of the population, regardless of which way it goes.

I wish therefore that Florida's votes could be nullified (sorry, FL Dopers!). Even if that allows Gore to win. I'd rather have someone I don't like win honestly, then someone I like more win dishonestly or questionably.

Una (laughing as she thinks of Jimmy Carter observing future polling stations in the US with the OAS...)

[2nd Law]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
I heard they tried to keep it open because the lines were so long and so many had not gotten in to vote yet...


Once again, speaking from my experience as an election judge, the rule we were told was that anyone who had arrived at the polling place by the closing time was to be allowed to vote. The doors would be locked and no additional people would be allowed in to vote, but the people who were already present were allowed to vote. No need to extend the time for people who hadn't shown up yet.

[Danielinthewolvesden]

Nor,ally I would say- who cares? It is only maybe a 1000 votes, in just one state. But in this case, those 1000 votes are in the one state that will decide the election. Jeeez. So much for the Bush "landslide" :D

[Una Persson]

Let me clarify something a bit.

I'm not being flippant about nullifying the FL votes. And yes, I know that that cannot be legally done.

I worry greatly about the cloud of suspicion that will hang over Gore or Bush when they are elected. I worry how disruptive this will be to our country and the legislative process. IMO, this could be more disruptive than Iran-Contra and the Clinton impeachment combined. So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That's all.

And note - I would even take a more honest or less suspicious Gore win over a less honest or more suspicious Bush win, should that be the case.

[jazzmine]

Originally posted by Shayna
CNN.com says the box was filled with supplies not votes.

Can you provide a link, please? I've been reading CNN.com all day and I can't find any reference to there being supplies in that box. Thanks.

Sorry, front page. That's what I meant by cnn.com.

So, http://www.cnn.com

[Rhythmdvl]

The CNN story on the found ballot box was just updated at 3:43 EST. The story now says there were no votes in the box. The link: http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/08/ballotbox.found/

[waterj2]

Originally posted by SuaSponte
Originally posted by waterj2
[snip] I guarantee the next presidential election there will be new procedures and safeguards.

Sadly, there won't be. Stuff like this has been going on for centuries. Heck, most historians agree that JFK wouldn't have been president but for a decision by Mayor Daley in Chicago that the most efficient counters for ballots from Republican wards were the fish in the Chicago River ;)

Sua

Hey, I said I was guaranteeing it, and I stick by that. If you are unsatisfied with the veracity of the next election, I will refund you the expense of your vote.

[tomndebb]

Heck, most historians agree that JFK wouldn't have been president but for a decision by Mayor Daley in Chicago that the most efficient counters for ballots from Republican wards were the fish in the Chicago River.

If that were true, then most historians would be either idiots, or, at least, seriously challenged in arithmetic.

Kennedy got 303 electoral votes
Nixon got 219 electoral votes
Harry Byrd got 15 electoral votes.

Illinois simply did not have enough votes (then or ever) to overcome Nixon's 84 vote deficit.

Illinois may have been stolen by the Democrats (although there was a lot of fraud in the Republican precints away from Chicago, as well), but Illinois could have been won by Nixon and JFK would have still taken the presidency.

[Guinastasia]

Hmmm....I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn't he?

[dropzone]

Originally posted by Anthracite
So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That's all.
Again I put on my Old Fart hat and say sagely,

We'd get over it. Or, everybody except the most vocal opponents of Mr Gore would, and as we've seen in some of the threads today those people aren't even happy or nice when they WIN!

[tomndebb]

I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn't he?

It's possible, although most of the fraud I have seen claimed for the 1960 election is generally attributed to old-line Democratic bosses doing a favor for the party rather than Kennedy actually initiating a buy.

Cecil has noted that the Illinois fraud (which features prominently, if stupidly, in several Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories) was pretty blatant--but that it was matched by a lot of stolen or bought votes by the Republicans out in the Illinois hinterlands.

Regardless, the old story that Kennedy was given the election because Daley's theft was better than the Republican theft in Illinois, shatters on the noteworthy point that JFK won without needing Illinois.

[hansel]

Originally posted by Guinastasia
Hmmm....I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn't he?


It was never proven, despite lengthy investigations by the Republican party that were eventually shut down by federal judges who said that there was no evidence.

[oldscratch]

Originally posted by Alphagene
Originally posted by Connor
Robots. We need some fucking robots.
Nah, they'd be biased toward Gore.



haahhaahaha bwahaha

Funniest election humor I've seen all day.

Alphagene, I dub thee, king of Gore/Robot humor.

[Milossarian]

No, it's not the least bit official that the election is fraudulent. In fact, as mentioned in the last few posts, the voting-box-in-the-church has been debunked.

If the past 24 hours or so have taught us anything, it's not to believe what the major media are saying until it is absolutely, unequivocably proven true.

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by Milossarian
No, it's not the least bit official that the election is fraudulent. In fact, as mentioned in the last few posts, the voting-box-in-the-church has been debunked.

If the past 24 hours or so have taught us anything, it's not to believe what the major media are saying until it is absolutely, unequivocably proven true.

I knew all of that, Milo. You are quite correct. I'm hardly the first person guilty of using a provacative thread title in the Pit though...

[Zarathustra]

I'm not being flippant about nullifying the FL votes. And yes, I know that that cannot be legally done.

I worry greatly about the cloud of suspicion that will hang over Gore or Bush when they are elected. I worry how disruptive this will be to our country and the legislative process. IMO, this could be more disruptive than Iran-Contra and the Clinton impeachment combined. So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That's all.

Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels.

Zarathustra

[Myrr21]

Of course, there is precedence for electoral votes from a state not being counted if the elector dies before the vote, or is unable to attend for any other reason. So if we just kill off the FL electors from both parties...*poof*

Problem solved :)

Well, I guess that would be a bad idea, but whatever...

[Una Persson]

Originally posted by Zarathustra
Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. D'oh!

[RickJay]

Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels.


No, no, no. If there are no Florida electors, then Al Gore is elected President.

From the Constitution, Amendment XII: "The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;--the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed..."

If no electors from Florida are appointed, then there are only 513 electors. Gore would have a majority of that, presuming his 260 electoral votes stand up (whether or not they would is a different question.)

What is equally clear, though, is that there isn't any provision for Florida to NOT appoint electors. According to Amendment XII, every state has to come up with them. I do NOT believe that disallowing Florida from the electoral college is constitutionally possible. One way or another, 25 electors from Florida must vote.