Ugly chick is "too pretty to fly"? WTF? (RO)

[atomicbadgerrace]

Video link: Girls claim airline discriminated against them because they were good looking (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/02/25/porter.too.pretty.to.fly.wtsp)

The hell? I can't really imagine an airline discriminating against a passenger because of their looks -- let alone because they're "too good looking." Clearly, there was some kind of disturbance onboard, the extent of which I have no idea. But, the girl clearly admits to her traveling companion getting into a verbal altercation with another passenger. Her valley girl "omigawd" attitude doesn't help.

Oh, and neither does the fact that she's not even pretty.

[Rhythmdvl]

For those of us with no sound, what happened?

[atomicbadgerrace]

Two 18 year old girls got on a Southwest flight and asked for water as soon as they boarded. She was told she could have one once the rest of the plane was served. Says she was skipped over during service. Says her friend and another passenger "exchanged profanities" over the lavatory. Says the airline only questioned them.

Airline responds saying women caused disruption on flight. Upon arrival in Los Angeles, police came on the plane and escorted them off (in front of everyone, OMG!!!!)... ends with girl, looking perplexed, asking "what happened? I feel like I was discriminated on based upon my looks."

She never alludes to anyone making any remark about her or her friend's looks. I think this is more a case of "omigawd, I'm an innocent lil blonde girl who got questioned by the cops because my friend made a scene. What's up with that? I like, deserve so much better."

[catsix]

There was some sort of altercation between the dark haired girl and a flight attendant wherein, according to the girl, she asked for a bottle of water and was told to wait until after the other passengers were served first but never got her water.

Then another altercation happened between the blond and a man who was in the bathroom too long. She knocked on the door, he wouldn't come out, she returned ot her seat, there was an argument.

The best part of the whole story is the news video I saw of it where the blond says 'I mean, nobody else on the plane looked like us except us. [The flight attendants] were like older ladies. We were younger. Who knows, they could have been just jealous of us because we were younger.'

Sounds a lot like one or both of them was a raging bitch.

Kind of like that other one who claimed she did nothing wrong when SW told her that her skirt was inappropriate because it was too short. As she displayed the offending outfit on the Today Show, Matt Lauer had her stand up and sit back down. They had to blur her crotch as she sat back down because she flashed the camera. The video is out there somewhere, I'm sure. I saw it on the Today Show website.

[Richard Pearse]

The blonde one is quite pretty.

I doubt that the cabin crew would've bothered making things difficult for them just because they were "too pretty." I think they have better things to do with their time.

[missbunny]

She looks better in the pictures than she does on the video.

Rhythmdvl: two self-proclaimed hotties got on a Southwest flight and 1) didn't get their water right away when they asked for it; 2) got into an argument with another passenger; and 3) felt that they were being ignored by the crew and said that since nobody else on the plane "looked like us," that apparently they were being discriminated against because of their (good) looks. Because of their argument with the other passenger, upon landing the TSA or some other law enforcement met them.

Edit: um none of those other explanations were there when I posted! You all are too fast.

[catsix]

I still don't know how it is that the man who was in the restroom at the time the blond was knocking on the door managed to find her after she went back to her seat and he exited the restroom.

If she wasn't causing a disturbance, how would the man know which passenger on the plane knocked on the restroom door?

[missbunny]

I find it hard to believe the crew said "You have to wait until all the other passengers are served." I can believe "You have to wait until the passengers are served." Not "all the other" passengers.

[you with the face]

I don't have much to say about the alleged incident, but I did get a kick out of how the camera gave us a moving full shot of the brunette as if to say to the audience "judge for yourself".

[missbunny]

Yah, that unflattering outfit didn't help her "I'm too pretty" case none.

Loved the Flashdance off-the-shoulder shirt.

[/end catty]

[red_awning]

Moley Moley Moley Mole

Mole


Mooooooole

[WhyNot]

I think they're both quite pretty...and both entitled, bratty, flippin' idiots.

Is this what happens when parents try to soothe their bullied children with, "They're just being mean because they're jealous," type nonsense?

[catsix]

WhyNot said:
I think they're both quite pretty...and both entitled, bratty, flippin' idiots.

Is this what happens when parents try to soothe their bullied children with, "They're just being mean because they're jealous," type nonsense?

Welcome to the generation of Precious Snowflakes raised by Helicopter Parents.

[atomicbadgerrace]

Moley Moley Moley Mole

Mole


Mooooooole

Is that a mole, or a zit?

[D_Odds]

My RO is why the fuck is CNN running this story? It's bad enough they sell Headline News morning show with T&A. Now they are choosing news items based on T&A factor? How fucking lame.

My local Fox news had a big expose last night too. Did anyone know that some massage parlors give happy endings. WHOA, STOP THE PRESSES! How is this news?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Kind of like that other one who claimed she did nothing wrong when SW told her that her skirt was inappropriate because it was too short. As she displayed the offending outfit on the Today Show, Matt Lauer had her stand up and sit back down. They had to blur her crotch as she sat back down because she flashed the camera. The video is out there somewhere, I'm sure. I saw it on the Today Show website.
That was completely different. The seats on a plane all face the same damn direction; it's physically impossible to flash someone. That was just Southwest being a bunch of overly righteous douchebags; this is two snotty little bitches playing "the hotness card".

[Giles]

That was completely different. The seats on a plane all face the same damn direction; it's physically impossible to flash someone.
The one time that I've flow Southwest, that wasn't true: the first row of seats actually faced backwards, so flashing would be possible.

[silenus]

Not to mention flashing the flight attendants.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Not to mention flashing the flight attendants.
Do Southwest stewardesses tie your shoelaces for you?

[atomicbadgerrace]

Do Southwest stewardesses tie your shoelaces for you?

No, but they don't have to. Their plane, their rules. If you don't like the rules, don't play the game. If I recall correctly, the woman in question was offered a full refund.

[SpazCat]

They're pretty in that "peaked at 18" kind of way. The kind that doesn't age too well.

I wonder if the other passengers cheered when Flashdance le Neonnails and Blondie McPrecious were escorted off?

[Dead Badger]

This reminds me of the time I was working in Texas, and was catching a ride with my landlord, who was listening to Limbaugh on the radio. I can't remember what he was talking about, but I do remember one female caller, with whom the conversation went something like this:

Caller: "Well, I think thesepeople should suck it up. I'm a minority, I've been discriminated against, you don't hear me complaining!"
Rush: "And what minority are you a member of?"
Caller: <pause> "... well, I'm nineteen. That's a minority, right?"
Rush: "Uh, no."

It was great.

[zamboniracer]

This reminds me of the time I was working in Texas, and was catching a ride with my landlord, who was listening to Limbaugh on the radio. I can't remember what he was talking about, but I do remember one female caller, with whom the conversation went something like this:

Caller: "Well, I think thesepeople should suck it up. I'm a minority, I've been discriminated against, you don't hear me complaining!"
Rush: "And what minority are you a member of?"
Caller: <pause> "... well, I'm nineteen. That's a minority, right?"
Rush: "Uh, no."

It was great.


Wait a minute. Rush Limbaugh was correct about something? Stop the presses! ;)

[Giles]

Wait a minute. Rush Limbaugh was correct about something? Stop the presses! ;)
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[Vinyl Turnip]

My RO is why the fuck is CNN running this story? It's bad enough they sell Headline News morning show with T&A. Now they are choosing news items based on T&A factor? How fucking lame.
I wish I could share your outrage, but I abandoned hope for CNN as a "news" medium long ago, when it became clear they had fully absorbed all the worst elements of supermarket tabloids and aggressively, unapologetically insipid "entertainment news" shows, The Onion (without the self-awareness), and most recently, YouTube and all its "Jackass News Network" brethren.

The war is over. Ignorance won. A massacre, in fact.

[tdn]

Welcome to the generation of Precious Snowflakes raised by Helicopter Parents.
As if that's a new thing.

[FriarTed]

Another vote here for Both are pretty & Both are biotches.

[NightRabbit]

The video isn't loading for me but, if it's just two chickies whining about being discriminated against for their looks, I'm glad I can't watch it.

[Liberal]

I find it hard to believe the crew said "You have to wait until all the other passengers are served." I can believe "You have to wait until the passengers are served." Not "all the other" passengers.I suspect that's what they meant, in the sense of "all the other passengers" plus you equals everybody. It could be just a regionalism. It's one of those vague things, like "we have to serve every other person", which one would hope means every one of the other people, and not every second person.

[Una Persson]

Being a veteran of more than 1,100 flights (and increasing...) my observation is that flight attendants are either not very bright to start with, or reasonably bright and so bored to tears they just go through the motions and don't give a shit. So the girls didn't get a waa-waa bottle early. Well shit, I've been seated in First Class as a Delta Platinum and skipped over by idiot flight attendants, so welcome to the club. Generally you have to be trans-oceanic on a $6000 business class ticket before you reach a level of service that's above "sit the fuck down, eyes to the front, and shut the fuck up." :rolleyes:

[Ponch8]

They were both quite fat, which automatically disqualifies them from being pretty.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Wait a minute. Rush Limbaugh was correct about something? Stop the presses! ;)

Blind pigs, acorns.

Especially when the acorn is shoved RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE PIG!

[D_Odds]

They were both quite fat, which automatically disqualifies them from being pretty.
Eye of the beholder, mate. The brunette was just slightly large (unless going by the impossible Hollyweird standards). The blond, not at all.

[lisacurl]

The brunette had a lot of nerve going on television and claiming she was discriminated against for being pretty. I think she has delusions that she's as pretty as her blonde friend.

Of course, the delusion was so strong with both of them, it was hard to tell.

[Voyager]

Wait a minute. Rush Limbaugh was correct about something? Stop the presses! ;)
It shows there are people out there dumber than he is, which is depressing. But no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public, as Mencken almost said.

[Voyager]

Being a veteran of more than 1,100 flights (and increasing...) my observation is that flight attendants are either not very bright to start with, or reasonably bright and so bored to tears they just go through the motions and don't give a shit. So the girls didn't get a waa-waa bottle early. Well shit, I've been seated in First Class as a Delta Platinum and skipped over by idiot flight attendants, so welcome to the club. Generally you have to be trans-oceanic on a $6000 business class ticket before you reach a level of service that's above "sit the fuck down, eyes to the front, and shut the fuck up." :rolleyes:
I've done only a couple of hundred flights, but in my experience the SW attendants are pretty good. Two things I don't understand. Do these morons not know the concept of an attendant call button, and being polite. Is there only one bathroom on the plane, so she couldn't wait? (I'm at work so I don't want to waste bandwidth on the video.) I've been skipped over once or twice, and the flight attendant was very apologetic. But then I've never boarded with an attitude like these two seemed to.

[Cat Fight]

They were both quite fat, which automatically disqualifies them from being pretty.

Seriously? You're pathetic. Not as pathetic as the brats in the OP, but still pretty sad. Honestly, would anyone here have even cared if the women in question looked like Gisele? Would the claims of 'Y'all just jealous!' have been justified if they were supermodels?

[tdn]

Seriously? You're pathetic. Not as pathetic as the brats in the OP, but still pretty sad. Honestly, would anyone here have even cared if the women in question looked like Gisele? Would the claims of 'Y'all just jealous!' have been justified if they were supermodels?
You forgot a couple of things. For one, they're not all that fat. For another, it is quite possible to be overweight and beautiful.

[Really Not All That Bright]

You forgot a couple of things. For one, they're not all that fat. For another, it is quite possible to be overweight and beautiful.
Possible, yes, but the dark-haired one is very meh. She looks rather tasty in the still shot but not so much in her video close-up.

The blonde is bangable, but given the pronounced effect of Distance Distortion Factor (TM) on her friend, I'll reserve final judgment.

[Manduck]

Pretty girls should get what they want.

Dammit, IT'S THE LAW!

[tdn]

Possible, yes, but the dark-haired one is very meh. She looks rather tasty in the still shot but not so much in her video close-up.
Good from afar, but far from good?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Good from afar, but far from good?
Yup.

[saoirse]

Honestly, would anyone here have even cared if the women in question looked like Gisele? Would the claims of 'Y'all just jealous!' have been justified if they were supermodels?

Well it does take it to the next level of idiocy. I mean, if someone said the FA forgot his water because he was black, it would be one thing. If the man was, in fact, white, it would be a whole other ballgame.

[RickJay]

Being a veteran of more than 1,100 flights (and increasing...) my observation is that flight attendants are either not very bright to start with, or reasonably bright and so bored to tears they just go through the motions and don't give a shit. So the girls didn't get a waa-waa bottle early. Well shit, I've been seated in First Class as a Delta Platinum
Ha ha ha. DELTA? There's no "first class" on Delta, there is only those who're lucky that their flights weren't cancelled or didn't crash.

I am always treated very well on Air Canada and United. My status on AC unquestionably changes the way I'm treated. Delta just sucks donkey balls. I can't remember a single Delta flight being a minute less than two hours late, except for one Delta Regional flight I took on a really bizarre airplane out of Kingsport where we were only 30 minutes late while the flight attendants moved us from seat to seat in an effort to ensure the plane would not crash on takeoff due to "imbalances." Any time I flew Delta, assuming the flight wasn't cancelled (which it quite often was) I felt it was a good experience if they didn't punch me in the nuts on my way out of the plane.

[Vinyl Turnip]

For another, it is quite possible to be overweight and beautiful.
Cite?

[garygnu]

I think the aspect ratio on that video was off (stretched). There's a closeup of the brunette's hands and her pearl was oval.

[Lord Ashtar]

Pretty girls should get what they want.

Dammit, IT'S THE LAW!
A wise man once said, "There is nothing more important in the entire world than being a hot chick."

What? Howard Stern totally IS a wise man!

[pulykamell]

I think the aspect ratio on that video was off (stretched). There's a closeup of the brunette's hands and her pearl was oval.

Looks normal to me.

[Voyager]

Ha ha ha. DELTA? There's no "first class" on Delta, there is only those who're lucky that their flights weren't cancelled or didn't crash.

My take on their motto - Delta Makes You Swear.

However the worst airline I've ever come up against is Northwest. I've had four segments booked with them. The first, from SFO to Minneapolis, was late. The second, from Minneapolis to Reagan was very, very late, since they found that the de-icers used at their hub had a design problem, which left them with one. The third leg, from Reagan to Minneapolis, was canceled, and I've never been happier to have a flight canceled. I got to travel on American, an airline who still knows how to do it.

BTW, I used to like United, but they've gone downhill a ton after deregulation and cost cutting.

[Cubsfan]

Wow. That brunette is fucking ugly and the blonde is average. Something tells me they have been pumped full of beauty sunshine by their parents their whole lives.

[D_Odds]

If one if "fucking ugly" and the other "average", then you and I are living on different planets.

[tdn]

Cite?
I didn't bring my camera. That would have been a little sketchy.

[TV time]

The sad part is that they will probably have a reality show next week.

[Vinyl Turnip]

If one if "fucking ugly" and the other "average", then you and I are living on different planets.
The center of the universe is planet Beergoggles?

[Green Bean]

Moley Moley Moley Mole

Mole


Mooooooole
That wasn't a mole. It was a freakin' capybara!

[tdn]

The sad part is that they will probably have a reality show next week.
You win the Internet.

[mlees]

The key is the final remarks made by the brunette in the OP's link.

She didn't think they did anything wrong, so the reason for the "discrimination" (unprovoked actions) must lie with the other passengers.

[eleanorigby]

Generally you have to be trans-oceanic on a $6000 business class ticket before you reach a level of service that's above "sit the fuck down, eyes to the front, and shut the fuck up." :rolleyes:


I agree. My SIL is a former (Continental) FA and she's dumber than a box of hair. Actually she isn't, but she hates to fly and would "pretend" that she was serving in a very small, very crowded restaurant when she was on duty or legs or whatever it is that FAs call it.
Take that as you will. She may not be dumb, but she certainly has issues. She also prefers to "be dumb"--perhaps shallow is a better word. Anyhow, she fit right in with what I've seen of FAs.

As a woman who travels alone somewhat, I am usually completely and totally ignored by all FAs. When my children were little, I was openly despised by FAs--even when the kids didn't so much as peep once. No help was ever offered, no accommodations were ever extended-I mean not even an extra napkin. Now, my husband traveling with small kids--those FAs fell all over themselves trying to help. Bitter, me? Not at all....


Flying is so nasty nowadays anyways--it really doesn't matter which airline it is. It's seriously like steerage or being shoved into a cattle car. Ugh.

(to be fair, the best flight I ever had was on Lufthansa almost 30 years ago to Fankfort, Germany). Best FAs (these were men); best service.

as for these chippies--they've gotten their 15 minutes of what passes for fame now. I do hope SW doesn't cave in and give them vouchers or some such. IMO, they are no more than conventionally pretty--the blonde looks very much like she was rode hard and put away wet. The brunette does not look like her still pic at all(?). I didn't listen because I've had enough aggravation from entitled people today.

[Kayeby]

I still don't know how it is that the man who was in the restroom at the time the blond was knocking on the door managed to find her after she went back to her seat and he exited the restroom.

If she wasn't causing a disturbance, how would the man know which passenger on the plane knocked on the restroom door?
Maybe she had a really pretty knock.

[spinky]

My take on the story is: two girls are convinced of their own mega-hotness. They think they're actually hot enough to get special attention and adoration, including being served before everyone else, never having to wait for the bathroom, and generally having the world ignore the fact that they're insufferable brats. After all, Paris Hilton gets away with it and some people actually think it's cute. Any situation where the people around them don't conform to this world-view is interpreted as others being jealous of their mega-hotness.

I'm pretty sure the only treatment for this condition is for them to repeatedly be ignored. I guess a backlash of moronic internet "OMG they R the uggz0rz" comments might get back to them and burst their bubble if we're lucky.

[11811]

vis-a-vis other passengers, you were "pretty"? :rolleyes:

Yeah, the brunette was kicked off the plane for being too pretty. :rolleyes:

The blonde? I think she was kicked off for being a dipshit.

[monstro]

This sounds like a stunt to me.

"Let's be as Paris Hiltonesque as we can be and then get on TV! We're so fuckin' hawt not even Anderson Cooper will be able to resist us!"

[D_Odds]

The center of the universe is planet Beergoggles?
Maybe it is my age showing. Maybe it is that I don't frequent places where college co-eds frequent. Maybe it is that I was never handsome enough to go around insulting anyone because they didn't live up to the Bo Derek ideal. Maybe it is that most of the women in my peer group have children who are approaching the ages of the girls in the clip. Maybe it is all of these things that colours my opinions. These girls are indeed full of themselves, but I can't see either of them as "ugly". Heck, the brunette, compared to what I see daily, is better than average, and the blond is prettier.

That said, she could certainly have dressed better and put on some makeup for a TV interview. She looked better in every picture of her shown during the interview.

catsix, my guess is that the girls in question were being obnoxious, and made themselves very easy to find. Of course, they have *no idea* that they might have been annoying others and *can't understand* why they are being singled out.

In related news, the parents of Anthony P. Alvino, 19, pled guilty to covering up (http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/tuesday/longisland/ny-lialvi265592002feb26,0,3532761.story) his hit-and-run killing of Carlee Wines, also 19. The penalty - $4,000 in fines that they paid on the way out the door. Both the parents response and the penalty for their response makes me think, Stop the world, I want to get off!

[Heffalump and Roo]

I must have missed something in the story. I listened to it twice, but I didn't hear either of them say they were pretty. The girl at the end says that she was discriminated based on her looks, but that doesn't mean good looks. It could mean any number of things that people judge based on looks, perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly.

The other one said essentially the same. . . that they were young, decently-looking girls and that there weren't others like that on the plane. That doesn't say much. It certainly didn't say pretty.

They could have meant that they were discriminated based on how young they looked or how they were dressed, not how pretty they were (neither of them mentioned pretty).

[Justin_Bailey]

Maybe it is my age showing. Maybe it is that I don't frequent places where college co-eds frequent. Maybe it is that I was never handsome enough to go around insulting anyone because they didn't live up to the Bo Derek ideal. Maybe it is that most of the women in my peer group have children who are approaching the ages of the girls in the clip. Maybe it is all of these things that colours my opinions. These girls are indeed full of themselves, but I can't see either of them as "ugly". Heck, the brunette, compared to what I see daily, is better than average, and the blond is prettier.

Get thee to any college campus in the country. Within five minutes you'll see dozens of girls hotter than these two, who are both average at best.

[SpazCat]

I think the aspect ratio on that video was off (stretched). There's a closeup of the brunette's hands and her pearl was oval.

I was too distracted by her neon nails to notice any distraction. My vision just dropped two points.

[you with the face]

Ha ha ha. DELTA? There's no "first class" on Delta, there is only those who're lucky that their flights weren't cancelled or didn't crash.

Dude, you ain't lying!

[Chefguy]

::sob!:: Won't someone please think about the attractive young spoiled women of the world? Can't we just please satisfy their every whim immediately? You're all unfeeling brutes.

[jjimm]

I've been waiting all day to watch this. So not what I was expecting. That's what passes for "breaking news" on CNN these days?

IMO only, of course, the dark-haired girl talking was 'pretty' in that kind of way when you've had seven pints of beer and you're feeling horny and you can vaguely make out a shape near you that has tits and hips, so you go back to her place, and then you wake up the next morning and gnaw your own arm off at the shoulder to avoid waking her up so you can leave.

The blonde girl, from her stills - yeah, I would.

I also swear that she just about stopped herself from saying they were "white" at one point.

[Nzinga, Seated]

Cite?


Cite. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/MamieSmith.png/220px-MamieSmith.png)

Cite. (http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1953/103056703411f9f2390010fvk1.jpg)

Cite. And yes, I am talking about the lady on the left. (http://www.events-in-music.com/images/ella_marilyn.jpg)


But eye of the beholder and all that.

I for one, have a very, very different idea of beauty than most in this society, thank goodness, or else I would be a basket case about my own appearance! But I do know what kind of looks this society normally seems to value, and the blonde seems to fit it to a tee. I am very surprised to see so many post that she is not pretty.

[Count Blucher]

vis-a-vis other passengers, you were "pretty"? :rolleyes:

[Loyd Bentsen]" Lady, I've studied with pretty women. I've worked with pretty women. Pretty women have been friends of mine. You, Ma'am, Are Not a Pretty Woman...! "[/Loyd Bentsen]

[Cat Fight]

I must have missed something in the story. I listened to it twice, but I didn't hear either of them say they were pretty. The girl at the end says that she was discriminated based on her looks, but that doesn't mean good looks. It could mean any number of things that people judge based on looks, perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly.


By golly, you're right. I can't believe I missed this upon viewing the video for the first time. The blonde said they were 'decent-looking' (in a list of traits) and the brunette only answered a question regarding their 'prettiness.' That'll teach me to be influenced by CNN's brief video descriptions (and, hey, SDMB OPs). This looks more like crap reporting than media whoring.

[HazelNutCoffee]

I've been waiting all day to watch this. So not what I was expecting. That's what passes for "breaking news" on CNN these days?

IMO only, of course, the dark-haired girl talking was 'pretty' in that kind of way when you've had seven pints of beer and you're feeling horny and you can vaguely make out a shape near you that has tits and hips, so you go back to her place, and then you wake up the next morning and gnaw your own arm off at the shoulder to avoid waking her up so you can leave.

I was trying to find a way to express my opinion of her, but your description sums it up nicely. Except I wouldn't wake up next to her since she's a girl, and I'm straight, but if I were a guy, and I was drunk, and . . . oh, never mind.

I'm sure the girl thought it was the height of humility to describe herself as "decent-looking."

[Sublight]

Good from afar, but far from good?

Ah, a Monet girl.

One of the few things I remember from Clueless.

[zweisamkeit]

Blonde girl is reasonably cute, but not pretty. She won't really age well, as another poster said. The brunette looks like someone who photographs well and knows how to put on good skanky makeup. In the video, she's merely nice average. Neither would be considered Hollywood/celebrity pretty at all, but for 'normal girl' they're respectively 'relatively cute' and 'prettier side of average, but still completely average'.

[atomicbadgerrace]

I must have missed something in the story. I listened to it twice, but I didn't hear either of them say they were pretty. The girl at the end says that she was discriminated based on her looks, but that doesn't mean good looks. It could mean any number of things that people judge based on looks, perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly.

The other one said essentially the same. . . that they were young, decently-looking girls and that there weren't others like that on the plane. That doesn't say much. It certainly didn't say pretty.

They could have meant that they were discriminated based on how young they looked or how they were dressed, not how pretty they were (neither of them mentioned pretty).

Um... so, the girls had *just* enough sense to not use the word "pretty"? Her statement (corroborated by almost every news station covering this today, for whatever reason -- do a google search) was

I think they were just discriminating against because we were young decent-looking girls. I mean, nobody else on the plane looked like us except us. They were like older ladies. We were younger. Who knows, they could have been just jealous of us because we were younger.

Okay, so when this skank says "we're decent looking girls, and nobody on the plane looked like us," that doesn't mean "we were pretty"?

[Annie]

My take on the story is: two girls are convinced of their own mega-hotness. They think they're actually hot enough to get special attention and adoration, including being served before everyone else, never having to wait for the bathroom, and generally having the world ignore the fact that they're insufferable brats. After all, Paris Hilton gets away with it and some people actually think it's cute. Any situation where the people around them don't conform to this world-view is interpreted as others being jealous of their mega-hotness.

Seconded. Brownie was attractive in an 18th century tavern wench way (must have been that elastic top); but geeze, you get the impression they haven't had to interact as adults with anyone but frat boys before.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Okay, so when this skank says "we're decent looking girls, and nobody on the plane looked like us," that doesn't mean "we were pretty"?
Wait. . . and you're saying that's the only possible interpretation?

Decent-looking might have meant clean, respectable, well-bred. . .and on top of that, young.

I haven't seen any other reports. If you come up with one where they say they're pretty, I'll take your word for it.

But the fact that you used the word "skank" says that you made the interpretation based on more than their words. If it was a guy speaking, you'd likely not make that interpretation. So if the fact that those girls looked a certain way made you interpret their words in a specific way, then no, I'm not likely to say that there was only one way to interpret it.

[Nzinga, Seated]

I gotta ask it. Because I thought I knew for a fact what is considered pretty in this society. I should have known better than to be so presumptuous.

For those that are saying the blonde isn't pretty, could you explain to me what could make her prettier? I am serious. I am genuinely interested in which of those features I see in that still pic that are not consistent with what people have been trying to teach me is 'pretty' my whole life.

Is the blonde as pretty as Paris Hilton? Is Paris pretty? Lindsy Lohan? Britney Spears? (6 years ago Britney).

[atomicbadgerrace]

Wait. . . and you're saying that's the only possible interpretation?

No, but given the video interview, the girl's attitude, and her choice of words, I'd say with 99.99% certainty that that's clearly what she meant.

Decent-looking might have meant clean, respectable, well-bred. . .and on top of that, young.

Either way, that doesn't make the case any better. Either way, she's stuck up enough to elevate herself above X number of other people onboard, whether she's saying that "no one else was pretty," or "no one else was clean," she's still a brat.

But the fact that you used the word "skank" says that you made the interpretation based on more than their words. If it was a guy speaking, you'd likely not make that interpretation. So if the fact that those girls looked a certain way made you interpret their words in a specific way, then no, I'm not likely to say that there was only one way to interpret it.

I did make the interpretation based on more than words. I used my real-world knowledge of people with similar attitudes in conjunction with her words to form my opinion. If it were a guy speaking, I'd say the same (though I may have chosen to use "jackass" instead of "skank"). How the girls looked really had little influence; if it had been a morbidly obese woman who hadn't showered in weeks using the same words with the same attitude, I'd still come to the conclusion that she thought she was prettier than everyone else. It seems a fair number of reporters agree.

[atomicbadgerrace]

I gotta ask it. Because I thought I knew for a fact what is considered pretty in this society. I should have known better than to be so presumptuous.

For those that are saying the blonde isn't pretty, could you explain to me what could make her prettier? I am serious. I am genuinely interested in which of those features I see in that still pic that are not consistent with what people have been trying to teach me is 'pretty' my whole life.

Is the blonde as pretty as Paris Hilton? Is Paris pretty? Lindsy Lohan? Britney Spears? (6 years ago Britney).

Perhaps I'll concede and say that she's "pretty." I think I internally confused myself based on her clear position of elevating herself above "the others."

She's pretty, sure. Better looking than most women? Not a chance. She's average. Nothing special. But pretty, sure, I'll give you that.

[HazelNutCoffee]

They were both fine. Not even close to ugly. But not half as pretty as they thought themselves to be. And I'm going to be unabashedly catty and say they looked kinda cheap. Or at least tasteless.

[Heffalump and Roo]

No, but given the video interview, the girl's attitude, and her choice of words, I'd say with 99.99% certainty that that's clearly what she meant.
The fact that you can't be 100% certain tells me that it's not a fact.

It would be a fact if one of the girls had said that the airlines discriminated against them based on the fact that they were pretty. But so far, I haven't seen a quote like that.

Shouldn't reporters be reporting on facts, not their interpretation based on their intuition what they think people might have meant when they said something? That would seem to give a lot of power to reporters to interpret the news as they see fit.

[atomicbadgerrace]

The fact that you can't be 100% certain tells me that it's not a fact.

It would be a fact if one of the girls had said that the airlines discriminated against them based on the fact that they were pretty. But so far, I haven't seen a quote like that.

Shouldn't reporters be reporting on facts, not their interpretation based on their intuition what they think people might have meant when they said something? That would seem to give a lot of power to reporters to interpret the news as they see fit.

I'm not arguing that the reporters used interpretation to come up with the headline; nor did I claim that it was factual. I think it's the result of a conclusion that most reasonable people would make.

Reporters should be reporting on facts. But, then again, reporters shouldn't be wasting time on this crap to begin with.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Reporters should be reporting on facts. But, then again, reporters shouldn't be wasting time on this crap to begin with.
No argument there.

So basically you started a Pit thread to waste our time about something that reporters shouldn't have wasted their time on.

Oh.

[atomicbadgerrace]

No argument there.

So basically you started a Pit thread to waste our time about something that reporters shouldn't have wasted their time on.

Oh.

Well, since this is the Pit, fuck you. In the thread title, I clearly identified the pitting as one of Recreational Outrage. Ergo, if you didn't want to waste your time on my RO, you could have stayed out. I believe the choice to waste your time was yours alone.

[Heffalump and Roo]

Well, since this is the Pit, fuck you. In the thread title, I clearly identified the pitting as one of Recreational Outrage. Ergo, if you didn't want to waste your time on my RO, you could have stayed out. I believe the choice to waste your time was yours alone.
You know, you're absolutely right. I don't normally click on RO threads, but the title had me curious.

I've always known that RO meant meaningless waste of time. Who knew that it meant that literally?

[D_Odds]

For those that are saying the blonde isn't pretty, could you explain to me what could make her prettier? I am serious. I am genuinely interested in which of those features I see in that still pic that are not consistent with what people have been trying to teach me is 'pretty' my whole life.She could be a brunette or a redhead? But that is just a personal preference. I got nothing else, other than she is too young for me.

[tdn]

Ah, a Monet girl.

One of the few things I remember from Clueless.
Is that where that's from?

[tdn]

Cite. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/MamieSmith.png/220px-MamieSmith.png)

Cite. (http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1953/103056703411f9f2390010fvk1.jpg)

Cite. And yes, I am talking about the lady on the left. (http://www.events-in-music.com/images/ella_marilyn.jpg)

Nice!

[storyteller0910]

You know, I don't have a whit of sympathy for these two girls for how they were treated, I don't think they were discriminated against, and I think ten minutes of being exposed to the brunette's speaking voice might induce me to attack a puppy.

But I'm amazed at the vitriol these girls are getting for having the temerity to - gasp! - consider themselves attractive. Fuck that. They suck for many reasons, but not for thinking that they're pretty. Most women are pretty (these two included), relatively few women think of themselves as such, and that's a crappy situation.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Is that where that's from?
I don't know if it originated with Clueless, but it was popularized by it.

See here (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=a+full-on+monet) for the relevant dialogue...

[Justin_Bailey]

But I'm amazed at the vitriol these girls are getting for having the temerity to - gasp! - consider themselves attractive. Fuck that. They suck for many reasons, but not for thinking that they're pretty. Most women are pretty (these two included), relatively few women think of themselves as such, and that's a crappy situation.

People aren't jumping on them for thinking they're pretty, people are jumping on them for thinking they're so gorgeous that other people actively discriminated against them.

That requires a level of delusion that is worthy of scorn. Especially for these two, who the consensus would peg at "average" (the brunette) and "slightly above average" (the blonde).

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

Cite?

Here's one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUTJQIBI1oA)

[Slacker]

Southwest responds on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPdSs3AiRhA

[D_Odds]

If you watch a different video of the interview (available on YouTube), not from CNN, you can see that the CNN frame is stretched. The brunette, while not Hollyweird anorexic, is not overweight by any respectable standard. She could, however, use a guest spot on What Not To Wear.

[atomicbadgerrace]

Southwest responds on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPdSs3AiRhA

You know, I saw this yesterday, and I just have to wonder... is she really a spokeswoman for Southwest Airlines? You'd think that someone whose primary job is to speak to the public, she'd be better at... speaking? Especially on a video.

That said, I don't even know why she says that Southwest can't ban anyone for life from their airline. They sure as hell can, if they wanted to.

[Justin_Bailey]

If you watch a different video of the interview (available on YouTube), not from CNN, you can see that the CNN frame is stretched. The brunette, while not Hollyweird anorexic, is not overweight by any respectable standard. She could, however, use a guest spot on What Not To Wear.

OK, the stretching of the CNN video does make the brunette girl look much worse than she actually does. But still, this whole thing is ridiculous.

[muldoonthief]

FWIW, both of the women were interviewed on "Inside Edition" last night. While their prettiness may still be debatable, their stupidity is no longer in doubt. The blonde even admitted that "my behavior was inappropriately (sic)", but complains that since the police didn't arrest the guy who was in the bathroom as well, they were being discriminated against.

[Quint]

Being a veteran of more than 1,100 flights (and increasing...) my observation is that flight attendants are either not very bright to start with, or reasonably bright and so bored to tears they just go through the motions and don't give a shit. So the girls didn't get a waa-waa bottle early. Well shit, I've been seated in First Class as a Delta Platinum and skipped over by idiot flight attendants, so welcome to the club. Generally you have to be trans-oceanic on a $6000 business class ticket before you reach a level of service that's above "sit the fuck down, eyes to the front, and shut the fuck up." :rolleyes:
Try Air New Zealand. Professional polite staff, a focus on showcasing NZ wines, all around the best airline experience I have ever had. By far.

[saoirse]

...if I were a guy, and I was drunk, and . . . oh, never mind.

No, no. Please, go on.

[D_Odds]

But still, this whole thing is ridiculous.No argument there.

[Santo Rugger]

You know, I saw this yesterday, and I just have to wonder... is she really a spokeswoman for Southwest Airlines? You'd think that someone whose primary job is to speak to the public, she'd be better at... speaking? Especially on a video.

That said, I don't even know why she says that Southwest can't ban anyone for life from their airline. They sure as hell can, if they wanted to.

Agreed. Probably just a flight attendant. Seems like an "official" spokesperson would use a different medium than youtube to get their message to the public.

I did love the Southwest-esque line, though, "If we banned pretty people from flying, we'd be out of business". Classic.

[Larry Mudd]

But I'm amazed at the vitriol these girls are getting for having the temerity to - gasp! - consider themselves attractive.Nah. There's nothing wrong with having a reasonable self-estimation of your attractiveness.

That's nothing like what they're exhibiting.

It has been shown repeatedly that people generally do discriminate based on appearance - people tend to go out of their way to accomodate attractive people. This is why it's particularly galling that these girls have arrived at the conclusion that they were experiencing negative discrimination.

Also, they have decent features and nice bodies, but character counts and they do come across as pretty repulsive. They should be drowned in a sack like unwanted kittens. (Or just ridiculed on the internet and on broadcast media. Whichever.)

[11811]

Good from afar, but far from good?

"From 50 feet away, she looked like a dream. From 10 feet away, she looked like something meant to be seen from 50 feet away." :D

[Shodan]

Or, "she was pretty. Then she opened her mouth."

Regards,
Shodan

[nashiitashii]

I gotta ask it. Because I thought I knew for a fact what is considered pretty in this society. I should have known better than to be so presumptuous.

For those that are saying the blonde isn't pretty, could you explain to me what could make her prettier? I am serious. I am genuinely interested in which of those features I see in that still pic that are not consistent with what people have been trying to teach me is 'pretty' my whole life.

Is the blonde as pretty as Paris Hilton? Is Paris pretty? Lindsy Lohan? Britney Spears? (6 years ago Britney).
Both girls are average looking, and the brunette clearly wears way too much makeup in the photographs shown. They may be pretty in that "youthful" kind of way, but they're both going to be less-than-average looking once age kicks in. Personally, I think the blonde looks like the average "going after the farmer's young daughter" type than the "hot girl in a sorority" type. Then again, I grew up in a portion of South Florida where plastic surgery is not uncommon and I was familiar with which girls got "enhancements" or "fixes" of some sort as gifts from their parents in high school. (These were mostly rhinoplasty procedures.)

There are much prettier girls out there who are in the "average" to "hot" range. I went to (hot or not dot com) and found a few photos of what I consider to be prettier than those girls but are within the 18-25 range:
one (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NU/NY/RZOQELOUXLUG.jpg)
two (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KQ/RZAQOYAWSGJM.jpg)
three (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KL/SMO8KRBUTRST.JPG)
four (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NR/KL/SYS8NSEAUWRQ.JPG)
five (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NL/NS/ARSLKESEABTM.jpg)
six (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/KS/HM/REOREQORYFYP.jpg)

No real order, just randomly picking girls that I thought were more attractive.

[mhendo]

Agreed. Probably just a flight attendant. Seems like an "official" spokesperson would use a different medium than youtube to get their message to the public.Why?

The very fact that this particular YouTube video is now doing the rounds all over the internet suggests that it's actually a very good way to get your meesage out to the type of people who are reading the story about the two women.

Also, the woman in the Southwest video says that her name is Brandy King, and a search brings up multiple news stories about Southwest that refer to a company spokesperson named Brandy King. And while the photo isn't very big, it seems to me that the woman on this page (http://www.prnewsonline.com/webinars/bios/bio_king.html) could well be the same one that's in the video.

I do agree, though, that she's a pretty crappy spokesperson. She might be good at writing press releases or talking to reporters, but she's pretty awful in front of the camera.

[tdn]

"From 50 feet away, she looked like a dream. From 10 feet away, she looked like something meant to be seen from 50 feet away." :D
"She could very well pass for forty-three in the dusk with the light behind her."
-The Schwenkster

[kidchameleon]

Well wonder of wonders, they did a call in to the local alternative station while I was comuting in this morning. The girls claimed that CNN did a big editing job on them and they didn't claim anything about being pretty. Eh. But they did say that the reason the 'old guy' (who was like 40, so very old) in the restroom knew which one of the girls it was because the attendants 'went out of her way' to point out the blond.

[D_Odds]

Well wonder of wonders, they did a call in to the local alternative station while I was comuting in this morning. The girls claimed that CNN did a big editing job on them and they didn't claim anything about being pretty. Eh. But they did say that the reason the 'old guy' (who was like 40, so very old) in the restroom knew which one of the girls it was because the attendants 'went out of her way' to point out the blond.Did they photoshop in that horrid outfit she was wearing? Did she at least take blame for that?

[Wee Bairn]

Is it just me or do fucking flight attendants have waaay too much pull- you have a disagreement with one, and regardless whose right, the airline will take their side and prevent you from taking your return flight, and you have to overpay for a days notice return trip on another airline, or walk or take the bus? You don't question the stewadress or you don't fly, who the fuck are they to have that status?

I can definitely understand if you fuck with one for no reason, but this appears to be a she said/she said type thing, and in the airlines view there is no way the stewardess could have been in the wrong? It's like the mom of an asshole who thinks her kids an angel and can do no wrong. I'm sure we've all seen a bitch flight attendant, yet you're supposed to take their shit- or else?

And yes they may be pissy little bitches, but the flight attendants could have been too. What was the point of the FA to show the guy in the loo who knocked on the door, unless it was to get back at the pissy little teen girl- what did they hope to achieve with that (if they were the guilty party) besides an altercation?

[Nzinga, Seated]

There are much prettier girls out there who are in the "average" to "hot" range. I went to (hot or not dot com) and found a few photos of what I consider to be prettier than those girls but are within the 18-25 range:
one (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NU/NY/RZOQELOUXLUG.jpg)
two (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KQ/RZAQOYAWSGJM.jpg)
three (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KL/SMO8KRBUTRST.JPG)
four (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NR/KL/SYS8NSEAUWRQ.JPG)
five (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NL/NS/ARSLKESEABTM.jpg)
six (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/KS/HM/REOREQORYFYP.jpg)

No real order, just randomly picking girls that I thought were more attractive.

Hell naw. Uh-uh. I admit, I only clicked on the first two, but those girls do not fit the idea that has been seared into my brain as "pretty" by American media and society more than the blond in the video. No way. She had that nose that a lot of the girls try to get from surgery, not a wide nose like the girl in link 2. And she had the shiney yellow hair like the playboy bunny girls. And she had the blue eyes like the contacts they are always pushing on t.v. commercials. And she is young and her skin is clear, and her teeth are straight, white and even like the ones on the girls on Melrose Place, or The O.C.

Yeah. The blonde in the video is definitely the 'pretty' that I think of when I hear the average American say the word 'pretty'.

[spinky]

Hell naw.I'm a little confused by your answer. You seem to be hip to the concept of beauty being in the eye of the beholder and individual perceptions of beauty not necessarily matching 'commercial' beauty. And then you answer 'Hell naw' to someone else's examples of attractive girls. Isn't that ... weird?

I can't really figure out if you're saying "nuh uh, those girls are not examples of what typical Americans think is pretty" or "nuh uh, those girls are not pretty." But either way, it's odd that you'd consider your opinion so authoritative.

[Justin_Bailey]

I'm a little confused by your answer. You seem to be hip to the concept of beauty being in the eye of the beholder and individual perceptions of beauty not necessarily matching 'commercial' beauty. And then you answer 'Hell naw' to someone else's examples of attractive girls. Isn't that ... weird?

I can't really figure out if you're saying "nuh uh, those girls are not examples of what typical Americans think is pretty" or "nuh uh, those girls are not pretty." But either way, it's odd that you'd consider your opinion so authoritative.

I gotta agree with Nzinga, the girls in those pictures are nice, but I think only one or two would qualify as "pretty." Which is strange, because I've seen plenty of lookers on Hot Or Not before. But those six, nuh uh.

[WhyNot]

You don't question the stewadress or you don't fly, who the fuck are they to have that status?
Um...they are the people trained by the airline to make decisions about safety in the air. They are the people responsible for the lives of 100+ people on the airplane. They're trained in comprehensive first aid, disaster leadership, terrorist (and troublemaker) awareness and diffusion of dangerous situations. The fact that they may be cute and perky and they give you drinks and pretzels is NOT really their job - their job is to keep your sorry ass alive when you go down in flames over the Atlantic Ocean.

Who the fuck are you?

[Really Not All That Bright]

I gotta agree with Nzinga, the girls in those pictures are nice, but I think only one or two would qualify as "pretty." Which is strange, because I've seen plenty of lookers on Hot Or Not before. But those six, nuh uh.
I'd hit it.

Well, four out of 6.

[tdn]

"Excuse me, waitress?"

"Sir, I'm not a waitress. I'm a flight attendant trained by the airline to make decisions about safety in the air. I am responsible for the lives of 100+ people on the airplane. I am trained in comprehensive first aid, disaster leadership, terrorist (and troublemaker) awareness and diffusion of dangerous situations. My job is to keep your sorry ass alive when you go down in flames over the Atlantic Ocean. Now -- what can I get you to drink?"

[saoirse]

Um...they are the people trained by the airline to make decisions about safety in the air. They are the people responsible for the lives of 100+ people on the airplane. They're trained in comprehensive first aid, disaster leadership, terrorist (and troublemaker) awareness and diffusion of dangerous situations. The fact that they may be cute and perky and they give you drinks and pretzels is NOT really their job - their job is to keep your sorry ass alive when you go down in flames over the Atlantic Ocean.

Who the fuck are you?

I used to work at an airport hotel that took in 10 airline crews a night. IME, FAs are not really qualified for that sort of work, and that's just as well, since no one really expects it of them.

They won't keep your sorry ass alive if you go down in flames over the Atlantic Ocean. They will die along with you.

[Man With a Cat]

Is it me or is the brunette's right breast bigger than her left?

[atomicbadgerrace]

Is it just me or do fucking flight attendants have waaay too much pull- you have a disagreement with one, and regardless whose right, the airline will take their side and prevent you from taking your return flight, and you have to overpay for a days notice return trip on another airline, or walk or take the bus? You don't question the stewadress or you don't fly, who the fuck are they to have that status?

They are the ones in charge of maintaining your safety and security while you're 30,000 feet in the air. They are the ones who have received the extensive initial FAA mandated training required to keep you alive should something. They're the ones who get rigorous recurrent training to keep them up to date with the latest in terrorist activity. They aren't just the people who bring you drinks and fluff your pillow -- that's just a side job that comes along with their primary task.

When you purchase a ticket, you don't purchase a right to anything. You don't purchase the right to fly, you don't purchase the right to say anything and act however you please. You purchase the convenience of being taken from point A to point B as long as you act like a reasonable adult.

I can definitely understand if you fuck with one for no reason, but this appears to be a she said/she said type thing, and in the airlines view there is no way the stewardess could have been in the wrong? It's like the mom of an asshole who thinks her kids an angel and can do no wrong. I'm sure we've all seen a bitch flight attendant, yet you're supposed to take their shit- or else?

Yes. If you see a bitch flight attendant, the correct course of action isn't to backtalk her at 30,000 feet. It's not to stand up and make a scene while you're zipping along at several hundred miles per hour. The correct course of action is to wait until your plane has landed and speak with a member of management at your destination, and follow up with a letter to the airline.

Same as, oh, a cop you don't like. I think you'll find that the only time the airlines will automatically side with their staff is when you do something in the air. If you act like a rational being and write a letter after the fact, or call and complain, I think you'll find that the airline will typically take a stance more in your favor.

Flight attendants are entrusted not only with YOUR safety and comfort, but the safety and comfort of hundreds of others trapped in your space. In this paranoid post-9/11 era, the flight attendants HAVE to be proactive in bitch slapping you down if you disturb the other passengers. If you don't like it, fly another airline next time.

And yes they may be pissy little bitches, but the flight attendants could have been too. What was the point of the FA to show the guy in the loo who knocked on the door, unless it was to get back at the pissy little teen girl- what did they hope to achieve with that (if they were the guilty party) besides an altercation?

I don't know, since I wasn't there. But if you want a hypothetical, I can see the flight attendant being swamped with getting drink orders, preparing service, etc. Some guy taps on her shoulder and says "excuse me, miss, but did you happen to see who was waiting for the restroom?" Not thinking anything ill of it, she says "oh, it was that girl over there." I don't know-- it's a hypothetical.

It's interesting, though, that you're quick to place blame on the airline. Don't forget that there were dozens of witnesses to the event seated just a few feet from the altercation.

[atomicbadgerrace]

I used to work at an airport hotel that took in 10 airline crews a night. IME, FAs are not really qualified for that sort of work, and that's just as well, since no one really expects it of them.

In your experience? Which is, admittedly, limited to checking these folks into a hotel after a long day of running legs?

[Justin_Bailey]

They are the ones in charge of maintaining your safety and security while you're 30,000 feet in the air. They are the ones who have received the extensive initial FAA mandated training required to keep you alive should something. They're the ones who get rigorous recurrent training to keep them up to date with the latest in terrorist activity. They aren't just the people who bring you drinks and fluff your pillow -- that's just a side job that comes along with their primary task.

Funny, I thought it was the air marshall who was in-charge with keeping passengers safe on a plane.

Or are they just carrying water pistols and plastic badges?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Funny, I thought it was the air marshall who was in-charge with keeping passengers safe on a plane.

Or are they just carrying water pistols and plastic badges?
Well, they're only on 5% of flights, right?

Or are they all Chuck Norris types and able to teleport to any plane requiring their ass-kicking skills?

[atomicbadgerrace]

Funny, I thought it was the air marshall who was in-charge with keeping passengers safe on a plane.

Or are they just carrying water pistols and plastic badges?

The duty of the air marshal is to protect the cockpit. An air marshall will not step in to stop a domestic altercation. Not to mention that air marshalls don't fly on the vast majority of flights.

They carry real guns and real badges, but rarely will their presence or actions do anything to keep you safe.

[nashiitashii]

Hell naw. Uh-uh. I admit, I only clicked on the first two, but those girls do not fit the idea that has been seared into my brain as "pretty" by American media and society more than the blond in the video. No way. She had that nose that a lot of the girls try to get from surgery, not a wide nose like the girl in link 2. And she had the shiney yellow hair like the playboy bunny girls. And she had the blue eyes like the contacts they are always pushing on t.v. commercials. And she is young and her skin is clear, and her teeth are straight, white and even like the ones on the girls on Melrose Place, or The O.C.

Yeah. The blonde in the video is definitely the 'pretty' that I think of when I hear the average American say the word 'pretty'.
I definitely don't think the blonde is "pretty", but I don't find most American blondes to be "pretty." Then again, I was comparing what I thought was pretty, and not necessarily going for girls who looked just like the girl on the magazine cover just because they looked like what the media's pushing at us. I just picked a variety of girls that I thought were prettier to me than the blonde in the news story.

I gotta agree with Nzinga, the girls in those pictures are nice, but I think only one or two would qualify as "pretty." Which is strange, because I've seen plenty of lookers on Hot Or Not before. But those six, nuh uh.

I don't know. I had to get through about 100 girls that I considered to be fairly ugly while looking through and finding those photos. However, I'm female and am looking for different qualities that match "pretty" than you probably are. For instance, I don't happen to find blondes attractive 90% of the time. This does remove a good portion of the images in the media out there that I agree with on the "pretty" issue.

[catsix]

WhyNot said:
The fact that they may be cute and perky and they give you drinks and pretzels is NOT really their job - their job is to keep your sorry ass alive when you go down in flames over the Atlantic Ocean.

If that's the case, it's no fucking wonder there are almost never survivors. I have yet to meet a flight attendant, male or female, who wasn't dumber than a bag of hammers.

atomicbadgerrace said:
In this paranoid post-9/11 era, the flight attendants HAVE to be proactive in bitch slapping you down if you disturb the other passengers. If you don't like it, fly another airline next time

You've obviously never been stuck on a runway for five hours before. When you're about to piss your pants and the respect-my-flight-attendant-authority 19 year-old fucknut who thinks they're a god threatens you with arrest for asking to use the toilet, your tune might change. Prisoners are at least given a toilet in their cell.

They don't seem to be trained to do much other than power-trip and get 12 drinks out of one can of Coke.

[atomicbadgerrace]

You've obviously never been stuck on a runway for five hours before. When you're about to piss your pants and the respect-my-flight-attendant-authority 19 year-old fucknut who thinks they're a god threatens you with arrest for asking to use the toilet, your tune might change. Prisoners are at least given a toilet in their cell.

:dubious: I think any reasonable person will say that this behavior is exemplifying the exception, rather than the rule. In this position, I would still say that it's best not to put up a fight. No one can arrest you for asking to use the restroom. Again, you have at least several dozen witnesses hanging about within a few feet to document the exchange.

I can't think of a single airline that would condone such activity from a flight attendant. If enough of you spoke up after the fact, that flight attendant wouldn't be able to abuse passengers in the future.

[WhyNot]

If that's the case, it's no fucking wonder there are almost never survivors. I have yet to meet a flight attendant, male or female, who wasn't dumber than a bag of hammers.
Eh, they're about as smart as most of the people in my school's nursing program. Which is to say, not very. Doesn't take brains to follow emergency procedures someone else has thought up. My point wasn't that they're smarter or better than the passengers, but simply that they are, in fact, the ones the airline is going to listen to because they are the ones the airline has hired and trained to make these decisions.

[catsix]

atomicbadgerrace said:
I can't think of a single airline that would condone such activity from a flight attendant. If enough of you spoke up after the fact, that flight attendant wouldn't be able to abuse passengers in the future.

Then why are they fighting against a passenger bill of rights that would allow, among other things, access to the restroom on any flight stuck on the runway for more than three hours?

WhyNot said:
My point wasn't that they're smarter or better than the passengers, but simply that they are, in fact, the ones the airline is going to listen to because they are the ones the airline has hired and trained to make these decisions.

You obviously have a lot more faith in the training of people who manage to screw up tea than I do.

[Nzinga, Seated]

I'm a little confused by your answer. You seem to be hip to the concept of beauty being in the eye of the beholder and individual perceptions of beauty not necessarily matching 'commercial' beauty. And then you answer 'Hell naw' to someone else's examples of attractive girls. Isn't that ... weird?

I can't really figure out if you're saying "nuh uh, those girls are not examples of what typical Americans think is pretty" or "nuh uh, those girls are not pretty." But either way, it's odd that you'd consider your opinion so authoritative.


If we are going to discuss something as subjective as beauty, you betta come prepared to deal with a lot of people with "authoritative" opinions.

Yes, I do kind of consider myself 'hip'. The girls in those pics do not at all look like the image of 'pretty' (notice I didn't use 'beauty' as you did. I specified that for a reason) that I have noticed the media and mainstream society overall, pushing down my throat for 33 years.

I mean, not to the extent that the blonde girl in the video does. Not at all. That is my opinion. Hell. Naw.

[WhyNot]

You obviously have a lot more faith in the training of people who manage to screw up tea than I do.
Once more, with growing apathy:

I don't, the airline does. The question was why the AIRLINE believes the story of its employees, the flight attendants, whom the AIRLINE trains to recognize and manage troublemakers, rather than the story of the troublemakers themselves.

[pulykamell]

You've obviously never been stuck on a runway for five hours before. When you're about to piss your pants and the respect-my-flight-attendant-authority 19 year-old fucknut who thinks they're a god threatens you with arrest for asking to use the toilet, your tune might change. Prisoners are at least given a toilet in their cell.

Yeah, the only time I was this close to losing it with a flight attendant had to do with a toilet situation. We were stuck on the runway for awhile, and I really, really, had to suddenly go (made the mistake of drinking a couple of beers or maybe coffees before the flight). Unfortunately, they won't let you use the bathroom not only until you take off, but until the pilot turns off the seatbelt sign. It was about 30-40 minutes into the flight that the damn thing went off, even though we had been level (or so it seemed to me) for a bit of time before that.

I wanted to piss myself just out of spite at that point.

Otherwise, all my experiences with flight attendants have actually been pretty good and I've never found them, as a whole, to be particularly dumb, much less dumb as a bag of hammers.

[Nzinga, Seated]

I wanted to piss myself just out of spite at that point.



That is cracking me the hell up.

haaaa! I just keep laughing harder and harder, picturing you silently pissing with a look of righteous indignation on your face!

[mlees]

That is cracking me the hell up.

haaaa! I just keep laughing harder and harder, picturing you silently pissing with a look of righteous indignation on your face!

Not righteous indignation, but a look of "Ha! I showed you!". ;)

[atomicbadgerrace]

Then why are they fighting against a passenger bill of rights that would allow, among other things, access to the restroom on any flight stuck on the runway for more than three hours?

I don't know why, but I guarantee that the ability to defend staff who make poor decisions isn't one of the reasons. In my opinion, this type of regulation is better left for the airline to self-police. If you don't like it, feel free to choose another airline whose policies are more in tune with your own.

You obviously have a lot more faith in the training of people who manage to screw up tea than I do.

Ummm... as someone who's helped developed a great many of those training progams, yes, I do.

[catsix]

WhyNot said:
I don't, the airline does. The question was why the AIRLINE believes the story of its employees, the flight attendants, whom the AIRLINE trains to recognize and manage troublemakers, rather than the story of the troublemakers themselves.

You obviously think that I'm taking the spoiled bitches' side in this particular incident rather than talking about the general attitude of flight attendants that I have encountered. Then again, what should I expect from someone who thinks that flight attendants have the same mental capacity as nursing students?

atomicbadgerrace said:
In my opinion, this type of regulation is better left for the airline to self-police. If you don't like it, feel free to choose another airline whose policies are more in tune with your own.

Considering that there are documented instances of flight attendants issuing threats to people who have asked for access to a toilet after five hours of sitting in a seat on a runway that they have not been allowed to get out of, and that sitting in cramped quarters unable to move for prolonged periods of time poses a risk of deep vein thrombosis which can be fatal, I think such regulations are needed. As of right now, no airline can be trusted to treat passengers like anything other than what they themselves refer to passengers as - self loading cargo.

Ummm... as someone who's helped developed a great many of those training progams, yes, I do.

So tell me, did you put it in the training video that passengers have no rights, or did the fucking geniuses who push the drink cart figure that one out for themselves, much like they did the brilliant idea to wake me up once I managed to fall asleep on the red-eye from PHX to PIT to ask if I want a coffee?

[anamnesis]

Maybe it's just because I'm a car enthusiast, but I may be the only one here who noticed the photo of these two trollops posing in front of a Bentley at the end of the video. What sort of girls pose in front of Bentleys wearing gaudy outfits and being outrageous twits? The kind with aspirations of becoming Paris Hilton, I suppose. My sister has friends exactly like this (far from attractive and and desperately overdoing themselves with makeup and horrifically overwrought fashions) and they traipse around the world oblivious to the fact that yes, their shit does indeed stink, and that they are massively fucking annoying to the point that most people probably want to stab them in the eyes the minute they open their fucking mouths to speak. They look like they'd get along great with the girls in this story.

I can tell just from their demeanor and from the Southwest Airlines response that they weren't discriminated against for their looks, but because they were acting just as I described ... consumed in their uncouthe selves to the point that it was pissing people off enough to want to stab them in the eyes. Girls of this variety always assume that the moment anyone has an axe to grind with them, it's due to jealously over their self-proclaimed good looks. The reality is that they know they're hideous (which is why they try so desperately to conceal it) and that their appearance is consequently their greatest insecurity. I'm delighted that they're being made an example of. Vapid twats.

[Jragon]

Both girls are average looking, and the brunette clearly wears way too much makeup in the photographs shown. They may be pretty in that "youthful" kind of way, but they're both going to be less-than-average looking once age kicks in. Personally, I think the blonde looks like the average "going after the farmer's young daughter" type than the "hot girl in a sorority" type. Then again, I grew up in a portion of South Florida where plastic surgery is not uncommon and I was familiar with which girls got "enhancements" or "fixes" of some sort as gifts from their parents in high school. (These were mostly rhinoplasty procedures.)

There are much prettier girls out there who are in the "average" to "hot" range. I went to (hot or not dot com) and found a few photos of what I consider to be prettier than those girls but are within the 18-25 range:
one (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NU/NY/RZOQELOUXLUG.jpg)
two (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KQ/RZAQOYAWSGJM.jpg)
three (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/N8/KL/SMO8KRBUTRST.JPG)
four (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NR/KL/SYS8NSEAUWRQ.JPG)
five (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/NL/NS/ARSLKESEABTM.jpg)
six (http://p1.hotornot.com/pics/HE/HS/KS/HM/REOREQORYFYP.jpg)

No real order, just randomly picking girls that I thought were more attractive.

Though I find most of those girls somewhat pretty in personal taste, I think the more "standard" definition of American "pretty" would be along the lines of:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/323/snorgteesadtosend2gj0.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8461/snorgteesadtosendec7.jpg
http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/natponerd3.jpg

(there are so many posts I've seen dedicated to this person):
http://www.tvguide.com/images/pgimg/mythbusters20.jpg

(this one is getting really close to stereotypical superstar)
http://www.celebrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/Hilary%20Duff.jpg

(this is the closest I could find to really stereotypical super-star pretty (what these girls allegedly thought they were) without getting into realy NSFW territory... damn google image search)

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/51QKWTGPKYL._SS500_.jpg
(okay so the color is a bit off, sue me)

Edit: For the purposes of this exercise we are ignoring any potential touch ups possibly done to any of these photos of course

[Really Not All That Bright]

Maybe it's just because I'm a car enthusiast, but I may be the only one here who noticed the photo of these two trollops posing in front of a Bentley at the end of the video. What sort of girls pose in front of Bentleys wearing gaudy outfits and being outrageous twits?
I'm a 25-year-old male and I'd pose in front of an Arnage if I saw one too ;)

[anamnesis]

I'm a 25-year-old male and I'd pose in front of an Arnage if I saw one too ;)Heh, so you're a 25-year-old male with aspirations of being Paris Hilton? I admire Bentleys for their rareness, beauty and prestige as well, but I never understood the fascination with posing in front of things like that for photos. Same deal with people at auto shows. What do you need pictures for of yourself in front of a rare car that isn't yours? All the car companies spend a lot of money to get fantastic professional photographs taken of their cars that are hundreds of times better than any photos most people can take, and you can get them for free off the internet in a few seconds. Just more testimony to the pompousness of these gold-digging airheads. "omg look at us, we pose in front of expensive things that don't belong to us! lol aren't we cute?"

[atomicbadgerrace]

Considering that there are documented instances of flight attendants issuing threats to people who have asked for access to a toilet after five hours of sitting in a seat on a runway that they have not been allowed to get out of, and that sitting in cramped quarters unable to move for prolonged periods of time poses a risk of deep vein thrombosis which can be fatal, I think such regulations are needed. As of right now, no airline can be trusted to treat passengers like anything other than what they themselves refer to passengers as - self loading cargo.

Documented instances where? And what was the airline's response to the complaint?

I completely 100% disagree with the last line of your assertation. This is a completely unfair blanket statement for you to assign.

So tell me, did you put it in the training video that passengers have no rights, or did the fucking geniuses who push the drink cart figure that one out for themselves, much like they did the brilliant idea to wake me up once I managed to fall asleep on the red-eye from PHX to PIT to ask if I want a coffee?

Did you complain about it somewhere besides an anonymous message board?

[Justin_Bailey]

Though I find most of those girls somewhat pretty in personal taste, I think the more "standard" definition of American "pretty" would be along the lines of

Ignoring celebrities for a second, I think a really good baseline for "pretty" among young women are contestants on Survivor. Every season they manage to pick plenty of very good looking women who don't seem "pretend" in that celebrity way.

And in that comparison, these girls just wouldn't rate.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Heh, so you're a 25-year-old male with aspirations of being Paris Hilton? I admire Bentleys for their rareness, beauty and prestige as well, but I never understood the fascination with posing in front of things like that for photos. Same deal with people at auto shows. What do you need pictures for of yourself in front of a rare car that isn't yours? All the car companies spend a lot of money to get fantastic professional photographs taken of their cars that are hundreds of times better than any photos most people can take, and you can get them for free off the internet in a few seconds. Just more testimony to the pompousness of these gold-digging airheads. "omg look at us, we pose in front of expensive things that don't belong to us! lol aren't we cute?"
Well, there's a statue of Strom Thurmond outside the state capitol building in Columbia, South Carolina that I'm sure there are excellent pictures of already - but it was much more fun to take our own while we pissed on it.

[anamnesis]

Well, there's a statue of Strom Thurmond outside the state capitol building in Columbia, South Carolina that I'm sure there are excellent pictures of already - but it was much more fun to take our own while we pissed on it.Haha, now see, I bet what they didn't show us was the next picture in that series showing the two girls pissing on the Bentley. That sure would make it an open-and-shut case, wouldn't it? :D

[mshar253]

The brunette looks pretty good in her myspace page. I'd link to it, but I'm not sure if that's within the rules.

I'd still like to message her saying that she's ugly, has a huge mole, and, overall, is a disgrace to humanity, but I deleted my myspace account just last night. Alas!

[mshar253]

Investigating even more deeply (I'm desperately procrastinating getting any real work done), here's a link (http://www.jaunted.com/story/2008/2/29/13299/9907/travel/Girls+of+Southwest:+Nisreen's+New+Myspace+Page) that includes both the girl's myspace page and Southwest's video-response. The girl in the Southwest response? Definitely cute; much, much cuter than either of those other two b***hes. And bonus(!): she actually has a job, unlike those two certainly will in a few years.

[WhyNot]

You obviously think that I'm taking the spoiled bitches' side in this particular incident rather than talking about the general attitude of flight attendants that I have encountered.
No, I "obviously" was originally addressing Wee Bairn and answering a direct question. It was "obvious" since I quoted him. I don't care, nor do I think, that you're taking the girls' side in this, since your first post made your position clear.

[catsix]

atomicbadgerrace said:
Did you complain about it somewhere besides an anonymous message board?

To the airline, yes. At the beginning of every flight when the dinkuses with the drinkuses are walking around the plane being in the way and generally annoying with their constant opening and closing of the overhead bins, I say to them 'Please do not wake me up during the flight.'

I've been on exactly ONE flight where they listened to this. MCO to PIT on a Sunday morning when hung over as hell. I got the exit row next to the door, was out before takeoff, and didn't wake up until we landed.

[Cat Fight]

Ignoring celebrities for a second, I think a really good baseline for "pretty" among young women are contestants on Survivor. Every season they manage to pick plenty of very good looking women who don't seem "pretend" in that celebrity way.

And in that comparison, these girls just wouldn't rate.

Is that before or after they drop weight a bunch of weight from lack of food?

[atomicbadgerrace]

To the airline, yes. At the beginning of every flight when the dinkuses with the drinkuses are walking around the plane being in the way and generally annoying with their constant opening and closing of the overhead bins, I say to them 'Please do not wake me up during the flight.'

I've been on exactly ONE flight where they listened to this. MCO to PIT on a Sunday morning when hung over as hell. I got the exit row next to the door, was out before takeoff, and didn't wake up until we landed.

You mean you wrote a letter to the airline after the fact, yes?

I'm not sure what to tell you, but if you've found this trend to be on the same airline, I'd switch. I rarely sleep when flying, and during my numerous redeyes, I've never seen a flight attendant wake someone up for anything other than a safety issue. That's just common courtesy, and if you're seeing a pattern, it may very well be a policy of that airline to wake people up and ask if they'd like service. If it is, time to switch.

[muldoonthief]

You've obviously never been stuck on a runway for five hours before. When you're about to piss your pants and the respect-my-flight-attendant-authority 19 year-old fucknut who thinks they're a god threatens you with arrest for asking to use the toilet, your tune might change. Prisoners are at least given a toilet in their cell.

:dubious: I think any reasonable person will say that this behavior is exemplifying the exception, rather than the rule. In this position, I would still say that it's best not to put up a fight. No one can arrest you for asking to use the restroom. Again, you have at least several dozen witnesses hanging about within a few feet to document the exchange.

I can't think of a single airline that would condone such activity from a flight attendant. If enough of you spoke up after the fact, that flight attendant wouldn't be able to abuse passengers in the future.

There's a thread somewhere here on the Pit where Una Persson describes being stuck on the runway for some ungodly time (9 hours? 11?) and I believe being denied access to the restrooms. I refuse to search for it, since I swore I would never read it again.

Anyway, atomicbadgerrace, in that particular situation, you have to put up a fight. They can't arrest for asking to use the restroom. But when they say "No", and your choices get down to pissing your pants or ignoring them and getting up anyway, what do you do? Don't you dare say "Hold it in" - the bladder does not have infinite capacity, and there are plenty of people who can't hold it for more than a few minutes past the point of no return. What do you do then?

[atomicbadgerrace]

Anyway, atomicbadgerrace, in that particular situation, you have to put up a fight. They can't arrest for asking to use the restroom. But when they say "No", and your choices get down to pissing your pants or ignoring them and getting up anyway, what do you do? Don't you dare say "Hold it in" - the bladder does not have infinite capacity, and there are plenty of people who can't hold it for more than a few minutes past the point of no return. What do you do then?

Ideally, demand to speak to the Captain. He calls the shots onboard, and will provide the final answer on behalf of the airline. I'm sure we can all agree that the crew up front are usually more level headed than the crew in back. It may be a simple case of the flight attendant believing that takeoff is imminent. It may be that the flight attendant is just jacked up and has no idea what's going on. Either way, best to seek answers from the front.

Failing that, I'd advise that I'm about to piss myself, and I will require relocation onboard once I'm done. Should THAT not work, I'd do it. And talk to an attorney afterwards.

Either way, ignoring them and going anyway isn't a good idea. While your intentions may have been harmless, I wish you the best in convincing the airline, the FAA, and law enforcement of that once you get back to the gate. Not to mention any federal air marshals onboard who may mistake your beeline for the restroom to be a run for the cockpit.

[tdn]

Don't you dare say "Hold it in" - the bladder does not have infinite capacity, and there are plenty of people who can't hold it for more than a few minutes past the point of no return. What do you do then?
Piss on the flight attendant.

[LurkMeister]

You mean you wrote a letter to the airline after the fact, yes?

I'm not sure what to tell you, but if you've found this trend to be on the same airline, I'd switch. I rarely sleep when flying, and during my numerous redeyes, I've never seen a flight attendant wake someone up for anything other than a safety issue. That's just common courtesy, and if you're seeing a pattern, it may very well be a policy of that airline to wake people up and ask if they'd like service. If it is, time to switch.
I've flown both American and Southwest and most of the time right after takeoff I close my eyes and, if not actually go to sleep, zone out. These are usually afternoon flights, and I can't remember a flight attendant ever "waking" me to ask if I want anything. On the few times I've had an aisle seat, they even manage to serve the other passengers in my row without disturbing me.

[catsix]

atomicbadgerrace said:
You mean you wrote a letter to the airline after the fact, yes?

Yeah. I write to the airlines. It's been multiple airlines. The only one that it didn't happen on was with Southwest. They let me sleep.

The typical answer is 'We do not want anyone to be skipped on the beverage service.' or thereabouts.

atomicbadgerrace said:
Ideally, demand to speak to the Captain. He calls the shots onboard, and will provide the final answer on behalf of the airline. I'm sure we can all agree that the crew up front are usually more level headed than the crew in back. It may be a simple case of the flight attendant believing that takeoff is imminent. It may be that the flight attendant is just jacked up and has no idea what's going on. Either way, best to seek answers from the front.

You've obviously never been in this position, because you'd be familiar with the response 'I told you to sit down and shut up and if you say another word I will have you arrested.'

You might also, if this ever happens to you, get to hear the wonderful 'You don't have any rights inside this airplane.'

Either way, ignoring them and going anyway isn't a good idea. While your intentions may have been harmless, I wish you the best in convincing the airline, the FAA, and law enforcement of that once you get back to the gate. Not to mention any federal air marshals onboard who may mistake your beeline for the restroom to be a run for the cockpit.

I'm sure they'd have heard me say very loudly 'Look, I am about to piss in my pants. I need to use the restroom right now.' and probably manage to avoid shooting me. Arresting me? Well, at least then I have rights again. Although if we are still on the ground I might try and call my attorney beforehand so I can advise him that I'm about to be arrested for refusing to piss myself on an airplane.

[atomicbadgerrace]

The typical answer is 'We do not want anyone to be skipped on the beverage service.' or thereabouts.

I'm at a loss for any airline defending this practice, then. Perhaps if enough people are outraged by the practice and speak up about it, the policy will change.

You've obviously never been in this position, because you'd be familiar with the response 'I told you to sit down and shut up and if you say another word I will have you arrested.'

No, but I'm on the other end. I work for a major US-based carrier, and I can say with certainty that if this happened on one of our flights, we would in no way support the actions of the flight attendant.

You might also, if this ever happens to you, get to hear the wonderful 'You don't have any rights inside this airplane.'

Simple fact is, you do have rights, but they are few. You are legally entitled to certain things, and are legally prohibited from certain activities. For those not categorized, staff is expected to make a rational decision given circumstances. If there's a pattern of poor decisions being made, that member of the crew won't be employed for long. At least, that's how we play it.

I'm sure they'd have heard me say very loudly 'Look, I am about to piss in my pants. I need to use the restroom right now.' and probably manage to avoid shooting me.

Think again. Nothing you say in the process will matter to a FAM who sees a passenger making way towards the front of the cabin while a flight attendant shouts "sir, sit down, you can't go there."

Arresting me? Well, at least then I have rights again. Although if we are still on the ground I might try and call my attorney beforehand so I can advise him that I'm about to be arrested for refusing to piss myself on an airplane.

Please do. Like I said, any airline that either condones these practices or employs staff that can't make these decisions properly either better have a damn good backing from the FAA, or be prepared to be sued long and hard.

[catsix]

atomicbadgerrace said:
Simple fact is, you do have rights, but they are few. You are legally entitled to certain things, and are legally prohibited from certain activities.

You work for an industry that is fighting against a law requiring the use of a restroom if passengers are stuck in their seats on the runway for more than three hours. You actually defended their fight against that law, saying that the airlines should handle this themselves. The fact is that when they do (as they do now) things really aren't working.

Think again. Nothing you say in the process will matter to a FAM who sees a passenger making way towards the front of the cabin while a flight attendant shouts "sir, sit down, you can't go there."


I'll take my chances then, because to me, being treated worse than a dog is just not acceptable. Prisoners are treated better than paying customers on airplanes. Maybe it takes someone being shot for the great crime of having to use a toilet to wake people the fuck up to the fact that this has gone way too far. These people, these flight attendants, are basically like the guards in the Stanford prison experiment.

Please do. Like I said, any airline that either condones these practices or employs staff that can't make these decisions properly either better have a damn good backing from the FAA, or be prepared to be sued long and hard.

Maybe you, oh great trainer of flight attendants, should start teaching them how to exercise some human decency rather than being sadistic little prison wardens.

[atomicbadgerrace]

You work for an industry that is fighting against a law requiring the use of a restroom if passengers are stuck in their seats on the runway for more than three hours. You actually defended their fight against that law, saying that the airlines should handle this themselves. The fact is that when they do (as they do now) things really aren't working.

I don't support refusing passengers a restroom if they're stuck on a runway. At the same time, I don't support federal legislation of such. The airlines should be left to make their own rules, and if they suck at doing it, passengers should choose airlines that have better rules. Maybe my view comes from the fact that where I work, we already do it right (policy-wise).

I'll take my chances then, because to me, being treated worse than a dog is just not acceptable. Prisoners are treated better than paying customers on airplanes. Maybe it takes someone being shot for the great crime of having to use a toilet to wake people the fuck up to the fact that this has gone way too far. These people, these flight attendants, are basically like the guards in the Stanford prison experiment.

People have already been subdued by FAMs (I believe at least one person was shot and killed erroneously, but I'll have to look it up). Nothing's changed. The law has always sided with the air marshals.

Maybe you, oh great trainer of flight attendants, should start teaching them how to exercise some human decency rather than being sadistic little prison wardens.

I don't train flight attendants. We do teach ours how to exercise human decency and make values-based decisions. We don't condone them being sadistic, and it perturbs me that you're making a blanket statement about the entire industry based on one or two poor experiences with one or two carriers.

[Meyer6]

I have flown on numerous airlines around the world and never once been woken up by a flight attendant for beverage service or anything. I have been woken to put my seat up for landing, but that's a safety matter and perfectly understandable.

I also have used the washroom when the plane was on the runway. I just stood up, and when the flight attendant told me to sit down I said, politely (but firmly), that I couldn't hold it any more and I was going to use the washroom. There were no hyperbolic threats or anything. The attendant was sitting right by the washroom door and watched me go back to my seat.

I gotta wonder if you are presenting some attitude or something that is getting you poor treatment and comments like "I told you to sit down and shut up and if you say another word I will have you arrested", catsix. I know people complain about airline service, but I've never heard anyone else complain about that.

Of course, I could be being treated special because of my extreme uber hot sexiness, who knows?

[catsix]

atomicbadgerrace said:
I don't support refusing passengers a restroom if they're stuck on a runway. At the same time, I don't support federal legislation of such. The airlines should be left to make their own rules, and if they suck at doing it, passengers should choose airlines that have better rules. Maybe my view comes from the fact that where I work, we already do it right (policy-wise).

Considering that the airlines are doing such a shitty job of not trampling over the basic human rights of the passengers, I think it's about time that they're forced to adhere to at least some basic sanitary standards by law. The system as it exists now does not work. These abuses are happening at the hands of flight attendants.

They need to be stopped. The airlines won't, and so it's time for the legislature to step in.

People have already been subdued by FAMs (I believe at least one person was shot and killed erroneously, but I'll have to look it up). Nothing's changed. The law has always sided with the air marshals.


This only makes it even more imperative that the law be changed.

We do teach ours how to exercise human decency and make values-based decisions.

Values-based decisions? What they seem to learn is that they are the petty dictator of the tiny banana republic known as the inside of the airplane. The answer to 'I need to use the restroom right now or I'm going to piss (or shit) myself.' is not 'No.'

We don't condone them being sadistic, and it perturbs me that you're making a blanket statement about the entire industry based on one or two poor experiences with one or two carriers.

If it was just my experiences, nobody would be proposing a law that says you have to allow someone access to a restroom after being confined for three hours. It's not. Air travel has become torture, and considering that airlines are constantly bitching about bankruptcy worries and now charging extra for second bags and shit like that, you'd think they'd eventually reach a point where they might try to treat their customers with a little respect and dignity rather than as self loading cargo. I don't really care what perturbs you. You are a part of the problem in the air travel industry, and all you're doing is suggesting that people piss themselves as a solution.

[catsix]

Meyer6 said:
I gotta wonder if you are presenting some attitude or something that is getting you poor treatment and comments like "I told you to sit down and shut up and if you say another word I will have you arrested", catsix.

Yeah I'm sure my attitude caused the push for a passenger bill of rights in in New York, and was the reason for the experience that Una Persson had when she was stuck on the runway for somewhere around 9 hours. It's had to do with the stories all over CNN after the big weather delay fiasco and the lack of access to restrooms on a SkyWest plane.

Yup. Those were all me. It must be just me, that I have an attitude problem. It couldn't possibly have ever happened to anyone else.

[mswas]

My favorite part is when the camera starts at her feet and moves up her body to her face.

I think they are both reasonably attractive.

[atomicbadgerrace]

Considering that the airlines are doing such a shitty job of not trampling over the basic human rights of the passengers, I think it's about time that they're forced to adhere to at least some basic sanitary standards by law. The system as it exists now does not work. These abuses are happening at the hands of flight attendants.

They need to be stopped. The airlines won't, and so it's time for the legislature to step in.

There's no point continuing this part of the discussion, as we both clearly have made up our minds, and we're just spinning wheels now.


Values-based decisions? What they seem to learn is that they are the petty dictator of the tiny banana republic known as the inside of the airplane. The answer to 'I need to use the restroom right now or I'm going to piss (or shit) myself.' is not 'No.'

Once again, you're taking your experiences with a handful of flight attendants and applying them to the entire industry. That's definitely not the case for the majority of flight attendants you'll come across. Ours do a damn fine job, regardless of the stereotype you'd like to attribute to them.

If it was just my experiences, nobody would be proposing a law that says you have to allow someone access to a restroom after being confined for three hours. It's not. Air travel has become torture, and considering that airlines are constantly bitching about bankruptcy worries and now charging extra for second bags and shit like that, you'd think they'd eventually reach a point where they might try to treat their customers with a little respect and dignity rather than as self loading cargo. I don't really care what perturbs you. You are a part of the problem in the air travel industry, and all you're doing is suggesting that people piss themselves as a solution.

Well, I won't suggest jumping up and going to the bathroom, one reason being the one I pointed out. Another is that if you do, and you ARE dealing with one of the rare asshole flight attendants, he or she is likely to call the cockpit to advise them of an unruly passenger. In that case, they'll return to the gate to let you off, and you're unlikely to garner ANY sympathy from the other passengers since you'll be the scapegoat reason for wasting two hours waiting for takeoff.

The industry is not perfect. No industry is. But it's my opinion that federal regulation is not needed at this point, and eventually most airlines will wisen up if they lose enough revenue over it. If they don't, then clearly the majority of their flyers are willing to put up with it.

[mhendo]

The industry is not perfect. No industry is. But it's my opinion that federal regulation is not needed at this point, and eventually most airlines will wisen up if they lose enough revenue over it. If they don't, then clearly the majority of their flyers are willing to put up with it.The flaw in your logic is that, in a relatively small industry (in terms of the number of competitors), there's no real motivation for them to change their behavior. People need to fly, and it's more a case of having to put up with it than being willing to put up with it.

If i need to get from Baltimore to San Francisco, i have a limited number of choices. And basically every company that i have to choose from opposes a government-mandated passenger's bill of rights, and is unwilling to issue their own concrete guidelines telling passengers what rights they have when on board the aircraft. Even after the Jet Blue fiasco of last year, Jet Blue itself made only small token efforts to improve communication with its customers and change the way it handles flight delays. And every other airline went into standard spin mode, decrying the need for a bill of rights and claiming that they make their decisions in a reasonable and customer-sensitive manner.

And yet complaints like catsix's and Una Persson's pile up in the hundreds and thousands on airline-related forums and message boards. But i guess they are merely anecdotal evidence, and thus require no consideration.

[Meyer6]

Yeah I'm sure my attitude caused the push for a passenger bill of rights in in New York, and was the reason for the experience that Una Persson had when she was stuck on the runway for somewhere around 9 hours. It's had to do with the stories all over CNN after the big weather delay fiasco and the lack of access to restrooms on a SkyWest plane.

Yup. Those were all me. It must be just me, that I have an attitude problem. It couldn't possibly have ever happened to anyone else.

atomicbadgerrace is right though, it is all anecdotal evidence. And much like the 'ugly chicks too hot to fly', it rapidly spirals down into a he said, she said scenario with the airline on one side and the passenger on the other. Seeing as many, if not most, of us have had good or at least neutral experiences with flight staff, it does make me wonder.

I'm not denying that there is the occasional bitchy flight attendant out there, but most I've dealt with have been pleasant, and I've certainly seen passengers behave very poorly. People are tired, stressed, sometimes haven't slept or showered for days, and some are on their way to funerals or high pressure business meetings. It's not really our finest hour. God knows I wouldn't want to be a flight attendant and deal with all that crap.

I guess, based on my experience and that of everyone I know, it just doesn't seem like a big crisis to me, like you're making it out to be. If you want to bitch about how hard it is to actually use frequent flier miles, there's a rant I can get behind!

[atomicbadgerrace]

The flaw in your logic is that, in a relatively small industry (in terms of the number of competitors), there's no real motivation for them to change their behavior. People need to fly, and it's more a case of having to put up with it than being willing to put up with it.
There's plenty of motivation in the airline industry. Competition is tough, and fare wars are getting tighter and tighter, leading airlines to look to other methods of attracting customers. Being known as the "airline with bitchy flight attendants" won't be a point in your favor.

If i need to get from Baltimore to San Francisco, i have a limited number of choices. And basically every company that i have to choose from opposes a government-mandated passenger's bill of rights, and is unwilling to issue their own concrete guidelines telling passengers what rights they have when on board the aircraft. Even after the Jet Blue fiasco of last year, Jet Blue itself made only small token efforts to improve communication with its customers and change the way it handles flight delays. And every other airline went into standard spin mode, decrying the need for a bill of rights and claiming that they make their decisions in a reasonable and customer-sensitive manner.
And for the most part, they do. Situations like the one catsix described are extraordinarily rare -- thousands of flights operate daily without having to sit on a runway for hours, and without the gung ho bitch flight attendant. In the rare instance of a breakdown, many customer complaints are handled to a mutual liking. It's this odd ball situation that people remember -- and yes, it does suck that *that* particular flight attendant handled the situation, but like I said, the same can be said of any industry.

And yet complaints like catsix's and Una Persson's pile up in the hundreds and thousands on airline-related forums and message boards. But i guess they are merely anecdotal evidence, and thus require no consideration.
The overwhelming majority of flights go off without a hitch. For the ones that don't, the airline has to pray like hell that it hired the right folks to handle the situation. When they don't, they pay for it with the stigma of one bad incident. No business wants bad press, and catsix makes it seem as though he/she believes that airlines reject federal legislation because they reject customer service, when this isn't the case.