childless by choice...

[Indian]

Some dopers have stated ( in various threads )that they remain childless by choice...

It is their choice , fine..

Will they explain why ?? I am really curious as to their reasoning ..




indian

[Annie-Xmas]

I have genetic problems and I was raised in an extremely abusive environment. I was afraid of giving my children genetic problems and then abusing them, which would make me worse. The idea of abusing my own children made me decide to not have any.

[MsWhatsit]

I HAVE kids and I can come up with probably about a dozen reasons just off the top of my head why someone wouldn't want to have kids. Is this really a huge mystery? Don't want the responsibility, don't want the expense, don't want to be tied down and miss out on traveling and entertainment, concerned about not being a good parent, concerned about world overpopulation, or maybe just simply does not enjoy being around children.

[twickster]

I never wanted kids. The mystery to me is those who do.

[Indian]

Hi Annie,


do you firmly belive that someone who was brought up in an abusive enviornment cannot be a good parent ??

Abusive environment in one's past can lead to a conscious decision and effort of not abusing your kids also.. do you agree with this statement ??

[KneadToKnow]

concerned about not being a good parent, concerned about world overpopulation, or maybe just simply does not enjoy being around children.
MsWhatsit said my top 3 better than I could have.

Knead
Shooting Blanks since 1997

[Carol the Impaler]

I love kids and am the favorite aunt to many (I mention that only so that you know that I'm not an ogre to kids). I don't want my own. I want to be able to do what I want to when I want to. I don't want to deal with all the stuff that goes into raising kids. It works out well, because I am never tired of them (kids) and have lots of energy for them when I get to see them. I get the best of them and they get the best of me. I have never in my life had this burning desire to be a mom, be pregnant, or give birth.

[Not a Platypus]

My main reason is that I just don't want the responsibility, nor do I want to give up the lifestyle I have.

I think that if I were to have kids (not with my current boyfriend, since he's adamant that he never wants them) I could be a decent mom, but I just don't want to be.

[MsWhatsit]

Hi Annie,


do you firmly belive that someone who was brought up in an abusive enviornment cannot be a good parent ??

Abusive environment in one's past can lead to a conscious decision and effort of not abusing your kids also.. do you agree with this statement ??


I'm just gonna stop you right there, friend, and ask why you're wanting people to defend their positions on this topic. If someone feels they wouldn't make a good parent, or feels that they just don't want to have kids for whatever reason, then they should not. And they should not be pestered by others who demand that they explain why their reasons are logical and valid, either. If you're interested in the topic of whether abused children can grow up to be non-abusive parents, maybe you should start a separate thread on that.

[Ferret Herder]

I've never felt a desire to be a parent, not even when I was growing up. I firmly believe that quite a few people have children because that's the societal expectation, or some might think it'll be different if it's their own child. I've had people tell me the latter, and my response is, what if it's not different? I wonder how many people were raised by parents who didn't want to be parents even after the arrival of the child, and how that might screw up multiple lives in the process.

In discussions like these I don't mind the "why not?" questions but in person it feels different - especially if the asker seems to be trying to "convert" me. Perhaps someday I'll be rude enough to ask why on earth they wanted to have a child.

[KneadToKnow]

If someone feels they wouldn't make a good parent, or feels that they just don't want to have kids for whatever reason, then they should not.
Absolute agreement. I told a co-worker once, long ago, when she commented that she was unsure if she wanted kids or not, "Then you probably do. When you don't want kids, you know."

She told me several years and 2 kids later that that was one of the best pieces of advice she ever got.

[Indian]

Ms,

I am not here to pass judgement

I definitely did not mean to intrude futher or provoke.. sorry if my question turned out that way.

...

[garygnu]

...Will they explain why ?? I am really curious as to their reasoning...
What do you mean, "why?" :dubious:
Some people may have specific reasons why, but none is required.
Is having children the default?

[WhyNot]

Is having children the default?
Considering that the OP is from India, I'd guess that yes, having children is probably the default in his (her?) culture and s/he's trying to understand part of our different culture.

Jeez, not every question is an attack, people!

[ErinPuff]

I don't want to have sex with men, I don't want to be pregnant, I don't want to give birth, I don't like kids, I don't have the energy to deal with them, I don't want to have to worry about making enough money to support anyone besides myself, I don't think I would be a good parent, elementary school choir/band concerts give me a headache (but if I had kids, I would cruelly force them to do music), I don't want to clean up baby food or vomit or poo, I don't want the responsibility of trying to get angry teenagers to grow up into decent people, I don't want to host parties with multiple screaming children running around making a mess of things, I don't like children's media (with the exception of a few books), I don't want to listen to the whining...

[Indian]

Considering that the OP is from India, I'd guess that yes, having children is probably the default in his (her?) culture and trying to understand part of our different culture.


there are people here in India who decided not to have kids.. and reasons( from whatever I read in newspapers), are pretty similar to those given above .

[MsWhatsit]

Ms,

I am not here to pass judgement

I definitely did not mean to intrude futher or provoke.. sorry if my question turned out that way.

...


I apologize for misinterpreting your intent! Sorry, I blame too many years of seeing flame-wars erupt on this topic elsewhere on the Internet.

[Annie-Xmas]

Hi Annie,


do you firmly belive that someone who was brought up in an abusive enviornment cannot be a good parent ??

Abusive environment in one's past can lead to a conscious decision and effort of not abusing your kids also.. do you agree with this statement ??

No, I don't believe that everyone who was brought up in an abusive environment cannot be a good parent. My sister the lesbian grew up in the same environment, and she has raised six lovely daughters.

But I wasn't willing to take the risk of becoming an abusive parent. I personally chose not to take that risk.

[pbbth]

I think that if I ever had a suprise child I would probably end up being pretty good at the whole mom thing, but I don't ever want to be in a position to find out for sure one way or the other. I don't ever want to be pregnant or give birth. Many women feel this surge of joy when they think about carrying a life inside them but the thought fills me with fear. I don't want to be responsible for another person or deal with all the hassles that come along with having a child.

My hope is that my brother has a gaggle of children that I can love and spoil and send home when I tire of them so that I can then go to the opera or an R rated movie.

[Dervorin]

I'm just gonna stop you right there, friend, and ask why you're wanting people to defend their positions on this topic. If someone feels they wouldn't make a good parent, or feels that they just don't want to have kids for whatever reason, then they should not. And they should not be pestered by others who demand that they explain why their reasons are logical and valid, either. If you're interested in the topic of whether abused children can grow up to be non-abusive parents, maybe you should start a separate thread on that.
I'm not quite seeing the reason for the intensity of emotion on display here. It's hardly as though people are having a gun held to their heads to make them reply to this thread - if you reply, the understanding is that you're willing to have a discussion about the topic. If you don't want to defend yourself, or not reply, skim over or avoid the thread.

I don't see why an innocent question needs to provoke such a pile-on.

[MsWhatsit]

I don't see why an innocent question needs to provoke such a pile-on.

Well, technically I think it was a pile-on of one, consisting of me, and I did apologize and all. Please everyone carry on and don't mind me. I feel embarrassed now.

[tdn]

Just the other day we had a thread in which the OP left his son with his mother for the weekend so that he could go on a date. He was flamed for that because he shouldn't be allowed to have any sort of fun whatsoever. Either that or he should be taking his son to dates in bars. Hey, he made the choice to make a baby, he has to live with his decision.

That's a choice I haven't made. So far, my life still belongs to me.

[NightRabbit]

since when is HAVING children the default decision? seems to me that you shouldn't have children unless you specifically want them, not the other way around.

[Nava]

Both of my female cousins and myself had pretty bad childhoods. None of us would want to make our kids as miserable as our mothers made us.

Some of my mother's worst mistakes came from the desire to compensate for her own bad childhood. Her parents fought constantly, so she never even expressed disagreement with Dad or with any authority figure in front of us. Therefore, until recently I was terrified that if I ever became a mother and tried to "do better than Mom" I'd manage to just swing things into some other pit of Hell.

I got less scared of motherhood recently (after all, I have been able to become better at some aspects of my work life by observing those who suck and those who excel at them), but at 40yo and living on the road, I don't imagine I'll be meeting me a mate soon. I just don't want a kid (who could be sick or simply the opposite of me... or too much like me) so much that I'll have one on my own.







When I turned 27, the Grandma from Hell told me "Mom had me at 27, I had your Mom at 27, she had you at 27. You have three... no, make that four... months to get preggers." I pointed out that, while studs are easy to find (just don't ask "your rubber or mine?" next time some guy in a club felt frisky), fathers aren't.

[tdn]

I'm not quite seeing the reason for the intensity of emotion on display here.
It's a hot button topic for a lot of people. I've spent many years defending myself on something that needs no defending, and that from the closest loved ones in my life. A lot of guilt was piled onto that, and mostly from my father. And then I got even more pressure from women I was dating.

When the topic comes up, so does my defense shield. It has become automatic.

On top of that, sometimes you get accused of being selfish for not bringing new lives into the world. I don't quite get the logic. You want me to do very specific things with my reproductive system (and to a much larger extent, someone else's, someone you have never met) so that you can squee over baby pictures for three minutes, and I'm the selfish one?

Sorry. I'm enjoying a quiet moment of RO here. ;)

[garygnu]

...Jeez, not every question is an attack, people!
I understand that, but I object to the implication that not having a reason isn't good enough.

With the said, then... indian, I have no particular reason. In fact, I could probably handle being a father just fine. I might even enjoy it. The idea of having a teenage daughter kinda scares me, but apart from that, :cool: whatever.

[Annie-Xmas]

Peg Bracken once wrote that, while childless people are always being asked "Why don't you have children?" most of them would never ask someone with a child "Why did you want to produce a creature like that?" There are many reasons for not having children: biological, psychological, economical, sociological, and just plain personal.

[Baldwin]

Just never wanted to. And there's not exactly a shortage of humans.

[Hampshire]

I don't know how it is in India but from an economic standpoint having children in the U.S. is becoming a HUGE financial decision.
The days where a male head of household can comfortably maintain a job and purchase a nice house in a nice neighborhood and support a stay at home wife and a couple kids on his salary alone are getting more and more rare.
The "American Dream" is getting damn expensive and is no longer the simple default thing to do.
Having kids nowdays requires a lot of sacrifices and compromises both monetarily and lifestyle wise.

[Athena]

Absolute agreement. I told a co-worker once, long ago, when she commented that she was unsure if she wanted kids or not, "Then you probably do. When you don't want kids, you know."


Seems to me that you've got it backwards. If someone is "meh" about having a kid, they shouldn't have one. It's a pretty damn big decision to make if you're not sure about it.

[KneadToKnow]

Frankly, I agree with you, Athena, and I think that's actually what I told her, but what she remembered me telling her worked for her. :)

[Nava]

Hampshire, in India it can be enormous as well. Girls specially are perceived as a drain, since their dowries can be ridiculously huge and completely out of proportion with the family's economy. This has lead to things like making it illegal to use ultrasounds to determine a fetus' gender (abortion because the fetus is female is illegal), which hasn't really worked; the gender-skew towards males is already noticeable, in some regions more than others.

Just this week there was a news bit in El Mundo about the Indian government creating a fund for families that have daughters, to be implemented first in those regions with the sharpest imbalance. The families will get money at different points, based on how well they're taking care of the daughters.

[vivalostwages]

I never felt a burning desire to have kids. I am now in my 40s and still unattached. I could be a good mom but I don't want the job.

Et cetera.

[Turek]

Well, technically I think it was a pile-on of one, consisting of me, and I did apologize and all. Please everyone carry on and don't mind me. I feel embarrassed now.

Don't be embarrassed. I think a lot of us have had to defend our decisions to such a degree that when yet another person asks us, we go into aggressive mode. I can sympathize with your reaction.

[ZipperJJ]

I think that if I ever had a suprise child I would probably end up being pretty good at the whole mom thing, but I don't ever want to be in a position to find out for sure one way or the other. I don't ever want to be pregnant or give birth. Many women feel this surge of joy when they think about carrying a life inside them but the thought fills me with fear. I don't want to be responsible for another person or deal with all the hassles that come along with having a child.

My hope is that my brother has a gaggle of children that I can love and spoil and send home when I tire of them so that I can then go to the opera or an R rated movie.

My thoughts are right in line with this.

I'm 28 and I still feel like a "child" myself. I don't have the money to feed or clothe myself beyond the bare necessities. How on earth could I ever afford a kid? I'm way to financially responsible (meaning cheap) to see any financial happiness for me + 1.

I have a dog. She is my baby. I am absolutely devoted to her. People say I would make a great mom because I am so good with my dog. But I feel like I am a horrible "parent" to my dog. I sit here and work all day and ignore her. I put off doctor appointments for her. I ship her off to my parents when I go out. She's basically here for my own comfort and amusement when I want her. Now, being that she's a dog she's perfectly happy with that. But you could never treat a child like that yet that's exactly how I feel I would be as a parent. Of course if I HAD a child I would have to make sacrifices so that I did NOT treat my child like that but I am obviously not interested in making such a lifestyle change. Lucky for me, I have a choice.

[Beware of Doug]

I never felt a burning desire to have kids. I am now in my 40s and still unattached. I could be a good mom but I don't want the job.

Et cetera.Ditto for me, substitute dad for mom. Further, as someone with chronic depression and allied issues, I feel I have more than enough to work on in my own life.

[TheMerchandise]

My boyfriend and I are each other’s first priority. And even if this particular relationship doesn’t work out, that’s what I want from any relationship I’m in.

I’m selfish enough that I don’t want to make my own wants/desires/whims secondary to a child’s. I like quiet; I like “me time;” I like my things to be clean and unbroken; I like being impulsive; I like being decadent sometimes. These seem to be things that are sacrificed when you have a child.

[tremorviolet]

I never felt a burning desire to have kids. I am now in my 40s and still unattached. I could be a good mom but I don't want the job.

Et cetera.

Yeah, that's pretty much me. I never played with baby dolls, never babysat, never daydreamed about having my own. I like older kids but I don't think babies are particularly cute. I have no doubt that if I were born in earlier time where getting married and having children was the only way to survive, I would have been fine but I firmly believe that today, with all the options and choices available to us, you should have kids because you want to have them, not just because you feel you should.

[Infovore]

I don't like kids. I've never liked kids, especially toddlers and young children, though I don't mind them quite as much once they get to be 10 or so. I'd prefer not to be around them. I have no maternal instinct whatsoever (what nurturing instinct I have is completely focused on my cats--the thought of doing it for a kid is enough to make me shudder). I'm an androgynous sort of person (straight and happily married, but in many ways very masculine in my habits, thought processes, and behaviors) and the thought of being someone's mother hits me about the same way as the thought that I might suddenly grow wings and take off for the moon--in other words (pardon the pun) inconceivable. It's just not something that even enters my mind. The thought of being pregnant is just too absurd to comprehend.

I have known this and been rock-solid sure of it since I was a very young child myself. People have told me "you'll change your mind when you get older," but I'm 43 now and I can honestly say I have never once had anything even approximating a second thought. I'm happy with my life, my spouse is happy (he doesn't want kids either, and as far as I know he's never had a second thought either) and we don't get defensive when people try to question us about it (which they don't do much anymore--I think we've convinced them). These days we tend to get amused, if anything.

I think it's wonderful that there are so many committed, dedicated parents out there who are raising the next generation. I have great respect for them. I'm just not one of them.

[SaharaTea]

I've liked a few kids I've come across, but mostly I find them to be obnoxious. I never wanted to be one of those moms who can't have an adult conversation without mentioning her diaper genie. Yes I realize not all parents are like that, but not the ones where I work, lol.

[jjimm]

I have never, ever felt the urge to have progeny*.

I wonder if there's something missing from my psyche or genetics? Lots of my buddies, male and female, want to start dynasties, or are already heading down that road. I just simply don't. My brother doesn't either - I'm 40 and he's 36. We're from a stable, loving family of 4 siblings, and both our sisters have kids - but neither of us care.

I'm sure if I should end up with a kid or two accidentally, I'd be as squee as the next parent, but while I exercise conscious choice (and know how to use contraception), I choose not to.

*Well, I did once, but the feeling only lasted for about 20 minutes. Then it went away again.

[tdn]

My hope is that my brother has a gaggle of children that I can love and spoil and send home when I tire of them so that I can then go to the opera or an R rated movie.
That's so awesome. I'd LOVE to go to an R rated opera with you.

What's playing?

[Dunderman]

since when is HAVING children the default decision? seems to me that you shouldn't have children unless you specifically want them, not the other way around.Exactly. Not doing something is the default; you need a reason to do it, not to avoid it. Why should I have children?

[Li'l Pluck]

Well, I'm a single gay man, so while it's unlikely that I would impregnate someone by accident, I am, and expect to remain, childless by choice.

The reasons are simple. Children, and the rearing thereof, require vast amounts of time, patience, energy, and money, none of which I have in adequate supply--not even for my own life.

Also, I'm 38 now, and I'm approximately seven years away from finishing my B.A. Even if I wanted to wait until I graduated college to raise children...well, I hardly think that I'd want to be raising children into my 60's.

Now, if someone trusted me enough to leave me their kid in a their will (does that even ever happen?), then I'd certainly man up and do what needed to be done for the child, and I think I'd do okay (my friends tell me that I'd make a great father).

But apart from that--or some other extreme circumstance, like if I knew of a child who desperately needed to be rescued from a bad situation, and I felt that the best place for them to be was with me--I don't plan on having kids.

The thing is, though, I tend to get along well with most children. Hell, they piss me off much, much less than most adults do! And the fact is, I'm a nurturer, so I like to "mother" kids (especially boys since, IMO, boys don't get nearly enough "mothering" from males in this society), but nah, raising children is something that I am, within 99 44/100th percent certainty, not likely to do.

P.S.--Like Annie-Xmas, I'm a survivor of an abusive dhildhood, so I totally understand her reasoning in that regard (I don't see my brother having children for the same reason)--and, frankly, applaud her for taking it into consideration. For me, though, I think that my experience with taking care of other people's children (I know--it's not the same as full-time parenting) has shown me that, thankfully, the abuse I suffered has taught me what kind of care-giver NOT to be. Of course, that doesn't work out the same for everyone, and sometimes you really just don't know how you'll handle things. I wish that my idiot parents (especially my father) had kept that in mind.

[MovieMogul]

There are many reasons for not having children: biological, psychological, economical, sociological, and just plain personal.I'd add environmental to that list.

[Beware of Doug]

Personally, I like babies. They're all cuddly and babyey and stuff. But after about age 1 they start turning into little messed-up people. Do not want.

[Tastes of Chocolate]

since when is HAVING children the default decision? seems to me that you shouldn't have children unless you specifically want them, not the other way around.

Sometime in my 20s I reallized that I didn't really have a reason to want kids. It was one of those things that had been expected as I was growing up. Graduate high school, go to college, get married, get a job, have kids. I'm no anti-kid, I just didn't (and don't) have strong feelings that I do want kids. At that time, I figured that if the best reason I could come up with to have kids was "everyone else is", then it probably wasn't for me. I've had to defend that decision for the last 15 years. As others have said, my first response when this topic comes up it to place my back against a wall and prepare to defend my choices.

So my reasons for not having kids? I never had a strong reason or even urge to have any, and I refused to have them just because it was expected. These are also about the same reasons that my SO and I haven't gotten married, even after 15 years together.

[fishbicycle]

Neither my wife nor I have any parental instincts or desires. While her family could only be described as "normal," she has been a piano teacher, and she got her fill of other peoples' kids. I come from a violent, abusive home. Since the '70s, I've not had any exposure to children. I don't have to actively avoid them, because we don't really know any couples who have kids that aren't grown up already. I can't say that I've ever envisioned a future where I had a son or daughter. No rosy mental pictures of me and the little guy fishing off the dam, or anything like it.

I wouldn't have the first idea of how to mold a child into a real person. How it worked for me was to avoid doing the unbelievably crappy things to others that people did to me. I couldn't live with myself if my kid hated me so much that he had to go out of his way to avoid being like me at all, in order to find his own happiness. That was my father's gig. I don't do his gig, I do mine. I couldn't bring another angry kid into the world. I'm not made of the stuff that would enable me to deal with criminal behavior, mental illness or drug addiction. What if my kid was like that? I don't want to know, and I'll never find out. I won't be anyone's dad. Especially now, at my age. Sure, lots of men make babies into their droolinghood, but I have concerns that I wouldn't make it to see my kid graduate. To my kid, I would always have been an old man, then I'd just die. That's unfair to the kid.

It took me 40 years to come out of the darkness of my upbringing. I'm rather enjoying the sunshine.

[pbbth]

Originally Posted by tdn

That's so awesome. I'd LOVE to go to an R rated opera with you.

What's playing?

Me thinks you might have misread my post lol.


To answer your question though right now it is McBeth. I thought it was awesome that they turned such a dark show about murder, coruption, etc. into an opera. Oh, wait, that is almost every opera...

[Khadaji]

It isn't that complex. I don't like children. I would never harm one and even run a toys-for-tots drive every year - but I don't like being around them. This makes for being a bad father. A father should love his children.

[vison]

It's a little late for me to decide I don't want kids, since I'm the mother of 2 and the grandmother of 4.

But I would never do it again. Not because children are demanding, although they are. Not because you lose your "freedom" although you do. Not because it costs a lot of money to raise kids, although it does. All the reasons given above are good reasons.

My reason is: it hurts too much. When you have a child, you have laid your heart bare to the universe. The poet called a family "hostages to fortune", and the poet was right. There is simply no pain that can equal the pain children bring, and it is almost always without meaning to hurt you.

From the day my oldest son was born until this very moment, I have never been free of the fear that "something" will happen and a child of mine will be hurt. I don't mean to say that I cower under my desk, or live in some kind of eternal watchfulness, ever wary and ready to leap to someone's defense - but it's always there, just the same.

On the other hand, there is no joy equal to having a child. Do the joy and pain balance each other? Some days I say "more joy than pain" other days, I say the opposite.

It's one of those things you probably can't understand if you haven't done it.

I had my kids without thought, to be honest. It was what you did, and I did it. My feeling now is that if you aren't really sure you want kids, don't put yourself through it. Actually, even if you're sure . . . I, for one, wouldn't do it again. Enough people have kids that there is no fear of our species going extinct from lack of reproduction.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

My genetic survival instinct just isn't that strong.

[Acid Lamp]

I'm a selfish man. Besides Nashiitashii, and the dog, I've no interest in having children. I have plans for my life and kids don't fit in. We intend to do a lot of traveling, and maintain a lifestyle that isn't super child friendly. I like them fine between the ages of 4-12 and can do without them at all before or after that. We work far to hard and struggle for our money, to spend all of it on a child. If money was not an issue, then I would be more interested, but as it stands, forget it.

[Morbo]

My wife and I made this decision 15 years ago for a number of reasons; wanted to travel and enjoy each other, my brothers already had kids, no obligation...but our biggest was simply that we both don't like children at all, and didn't want to be hypocritical about it.

As for tdn's issues, I'm right there with him. The shocking insulting nature and frequency of people asking us point blank over the years why we don't have children is astounding. I'm talking total strangers in line for the checkout...co-workers, relatives, friends, whomever.

Why is it their business? Aren't they worried that it's pretty likely that the answer would be that they were barren, or too old, or low sperm count? Wouldn't the likelihood of insulting their age or making them bring up a medical issue prevent you from asking such a thing?

You get really tired really fast of having to defend your decision, while they have this concerned look on their faces - or even worse, pity.

Or even worse, in the case of a co-worker, "I'll pray for you." That killed me. "Don't PRAY for me. Weren't you listening? I said it was a conscious decision. Are you praying that I'll change my mind??!! Why would you possibly care---oh, forget it."

[phungi]

I don't want to have sex with men, I don't want to be pregnant, I don't want to give birth, I don't like kids, I don't have the energy to deal with them, I don't want to have to worry about making enough money to support anyone besides myself, I don't think I would be a good parent, elementary school choir/band concerts give me a headache (but if I had kids, I would cruelly force them to do music), I don't want to clean up baby food or vomit or poo, I don't want the responsibility of trying to get angry teenagers to grow up into decent people, I don't want to host parties with multiple screaming children running around making a mess of things, I don't like children's media (with the exception of a few books), I don't want to listen to the whining...
I have a lot in common with ErinPuff, and I am a man with 2 kids. I don't mean to be completely sarcastic, but I can see my dinner table conversation tonight (Stealing a bit from Monty Python's Meaning of Life:

INT-EVENING-DINNER TABLE - PHUNGI, PHUNGAL, PHUNKID1, PHUNKID2

Phungi: Sorry kids, I was online today and realize you are a huge hassle. It's scientific research for the lot of you

[tdn]

As for tdn's issues, I'm right there with him. The shocking insulting nature and frequency of people asking us point blank over the years why we don't have children is astounding. I'm talking total strangers in line for the checkout...co-workers, relatives, friends, whomever.
And I'm sure it's far worse for you, being married. Having said that, me being single, whenever I'm in a LTR I'm always asked "Do I hear wedding bells?" Of course, it's worse if it comes from the woman I'm seeing.

Or even worse, in the case of a co-worker, "I'll pray for you."
Holy shit.

[Trunk]

We just never wanted them.

We want to travel, retire early. My wife has a growing business, and having a kid would cripple that business.

There has never been a time that I've thought, "wow, I'd like to have some kid running around." We've ensured that it ain't happening, too, if you get my drift.

And, we're both from catholic households with brothers and sisters, and non-abusive parents who have always been together. However, we are both atheists.

[Annie-Xmas]

As I posted in another thread, I've had people who, when they heard I have no children, have asked me "Well, have you ever been pregnant?"

There is no good reason to ask that question and no good way to answer it. Since I don't believe in physically attacking people, I settle for a haughty "None of your damn business."

Yeah, having to defend a decision about your own body and lifestyle to the world does get kind of tiring.

[Anne Neville]

whenever I'm in a LTR I'm always asked "Do I hear wedding bells?"

You could look confused and concerned and say, "No. You might want to get your hearing aid checked." I would be soooo tempted to say that.

But I'm just evil that way. I plan to have kids eventually, and I have all kinds of evil responses planned for the belly-touchers and the people who ask stupid questions.

[tdn]

You could look confused and concerned and say, "No. You might want to get your hearing aid checked." I would be soooo tempted to say that.
Except that the people saying it are usually relatives that I care about.

A woman at work used to give me a hard time asking me when I was going to make an honest woman out of my girlfriend. She knew it pushed my buttons, so she would just turn up the volume. One day she started in on me, and I told her that we'd broken up. While it was a hard time in my life, the look on her face was pretty amusing. She knew she'd gone too far. HA!

[Mrs. Cake]

It wasn't that we didn't want to, it was that we didn't want to enough. I spent a lot of time in my teen years taking care of foster babies, my youngest sister, and my oldest sister's babies so I had an excellent idea of the work involved, and whatever weak biological urge I may have had was completely inadequate to overcome the first-hand knowledge of the sacrifice and hassle. Also, I have four siblings who produced sprogs at regular intervals, so my own genetic heritage was well assured.

Also, any child my husband and I would have had would probably have looked like Mr. Potatohead. We were neither of us attractive children. It seemed unfair to inflict that on an innocent human being.

[catsix]

I'm childfree. I have always known this, for my entire life, in the same way that I have always known that I was straight. I never decided that I was going to be hetero, and never decided that I would be childfree.

I have also been defending this for at least the last 12 years. I've gotten everything from 'Why?' to 'What's wrong with you?' to the pitiful look and the 'Oh, are you infertile?' to the 'You'll change your mind when you get older.'

I've tried to get fixed, but I haven't found a doctor willing to either give me a tubal or Essure unless I'm over 35, married and have two kids already. When my doctor suggested that I needed to have some kids and then I could get fixed, I said 'Well doc, that's the wrong fucking time to realize I don't want any.'

When they said 'No, sterilization is for people who don't want any more kids.' I said 'I have zero. I don't want any more than that.'

Defensive? Maybe. But I have yet to be asked why I don't want any kids by someone who isn't trying to change my mind.

[Hanna]

I'd rather not have them and regret it, than have some and regret it.

[DoctorJ]

For me, it's simple--I've never felt the desire to have kids. When I see people who are excited about a new pregnancy, or excited about trying to get pregnant, or heartbroken about fertility problems (and going to untold trouble and expense to correct them), it is clear that they have something I don't.

I would not have a kid without being ready to change my life completely for it. I just don't have any desire to do that.

I really don't mind when people ask about it. After all, I like to ask vegetarians why they went that way, not because I disagree with their choice but because I'm really interested. Even the standard bingos don't bother me that much. What gets me is the smug attitude that it's a silly phase and I'll change my mind--or, more often, that my wife will change her mind. (If anything, she's more hardcore about it than I am.)

[Hockey Monkey]

There are a lot of reasons I don't want to have children.

The crux of it is that I am selfish and like my life the way it is now. I want to be free to do what I want when I want to do it. I want to buy hockey tickets instead of diapers. I don't want the (to me mind boggling) responsibility of caring for and raising a good human being. Deep down I don't like being around kids. I pretend to like them, and there are a few I've met that are great kids, but really, I don't care for them. My maternal instincts seem to be corrupted by a mutation that morphed them into pupternal instincts. Whenever my biological clock ticks, I get puppies. I can lock a puppy in it's crate and leave it for a few hours to do something fun. So yeah, I'm selfish. At least I can own up to my limitations and make a good decision to not have children, sparing them, me and my family a lifetime of regret.

[Katriona]

Some dopers have stated ( in various threads )that they remain childless by choice...

It is their choice , fine..

Will they explain why ?? I am really curious as to their reasoning ..




indian

Don't like kids, so don't want them.

[OtakuLoki]

I'm in a position where I cannot have a dog, and you want to know why I don't have children? ;)


More seriously, I'm 39, single, on disability for mental illness. I don't think that I'd become some kind of monster if I had to care for a child, I even know I'm a good babysitter. But, I don't exactly see myself as being a good role model, nor a good risk.

[Queen Bruin]

1. I have no interest in having kids of my own. I like my nieces and nephews just fine, especially around the 10 y.o. mark, when they start to develop intellectual interests.

2. Health problems. I have PCOS (the leading cause of infertility among women) and abdominal adhesions from a previous gynecological problem and resulting surgery.

3. Husband and I took the scenic route. I'm 27; my husband is 36. I am just getting my bachelor's, and he will not graduate from law school until he is 37. Also, we are footing the bill for the (private) law school ourselves - having children would be financially impractical for us, considering our shortened earning span.

4. My interests include drinking, motorcycling, international travel, and late nights, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

[nashiitashii]

I'm a selfish man. Besides Nashiitashii, and the dog, I've no interest in having children. I have plans for my life and kids don't fit in. We intend to do a lot of traveling, and maintain a lifestyle that isn't super child friendly. I like them fine between the ages of 4-12 and can do without them at all before or after that. We work far to hard and struggle for our money, to spend all of it on a child. If money was not an issue, then I would be more interested, but as it stands, forget it.
Acid Lamp and I work out well together because of our mutual interests and some mutual lack of interest in children. As a kid, I didn't get a ton of exposure to kids younger than me outside of school. I didn't express an interest in holding or playing with the babies and toddlers of relatives and family friends, and I'm still not all that interested in kids as it is. I like some of the kids I encounter with my job and I understand them a lot better than I used to, but I still am not enamored with the idea of taking even the most well-behaved child home, if even for a few hours. There's a lot more complex stuff going on with me, though.

I am 25 years old and cannot visualize myself as being of an appropriate age to have children. I am intensely disinterested in pregnancy and am not interested in having another large mammal to clean up after; the dog and Acid Lamp provide enough excitement on that front for now. I'm just starting on the road to having a full career ahead of me, and I'd consider it a waste of my time and money to stop now just to pass on a name or have someone to take care of me when I'm old or whatnot. I have goals that do not pertain to having progeny, but do pertain to having enough time and money to achieve them. I want to live comfortably when I'm old and I want enough free time to be able to invest in my own hobbies. I want to be able to live in a house with my SO that we designed and have built for ourselves. I want a big garden and good food and wonderful handmade items that I was able to construct by myself for my pleasure and for others' pleasure. I don't want to restrict the items I buy or the way I decorate my house so that it's not going to be dangerous for children.

These are not goals that I could see being attained if I have children any time soon, and it's not fair to give birth to a child after the age of 40 because you'll be nearing 60 or older by the time they graduate high school and it puts far too much of a burden of worry on any decent, caring child to deal with that kind of relationship. My parents are in their sixties right now, and I feel that I would not personally be able to handle the aging of my parents compared to my own burgeoning adulthood if I were more than two years younger. I also believe that there's no point in having kids if you don't strongly want them; it's not fair to a kid to be just lukewarm about the idea of them existing and only sort of liking them. I have the capacity to love and nurture intensely, but I just don't feel that kind of warmth or capacity to love when it comes to the idea of having kids, as I view having children of my own to be more of a burden than a goal or a wish.

[Cat Whisperer]

Put me in the "missing the desire to have kids entirely" camp. You can also put me in the "doesn't particularly like children" camp, too. I don't really see the cuteness in babies; they look very strange to me.

I start with no desire to have kids, and end with many, many good reasons to not have them. I think the only reason people *do* have kids is simply because they want them (and people tend to think of CBC people as selfish. :dubious: )

For all you other CBC folk out there who are tired of being questioned about your reproductive choices, my husband and I have come up with, "We're not allowed to have children" as our stock answer. People don't seem to know what to do with that.

[nashiitashii]

Featherlou, I'm young enough that "I'm not ready to have kids! I'm a student! I'm poor!" generally tends to work out okay. However, we live in an area where I'm a strange exception. Most of the households in the neighborhood with a heterosexual couple in them tend to have at least one kid; often enough, it's two kids with more on the way.

[Kayeby]

I don't really have the personality to be a good parent (irresponsible, selfish, impatient) and I don't have the inclination. My fiance militantly dislikes kids, and his family has a history of Aspergers. We're 24/25 so it's early days yet, but it's looking unlikely.

My parents know and are fine with it - one of my dad's friends told him to pressure us, but dad shrugged and said he was too old to deal with grandkids. I love my daddy. :) I don't think his parents know yet. They're not the sort of bug us about it, but I know his mother will be secretly disappointed - she has visions of spoiling gorgeous mixed-race grandkids.

[Morbo]

For all you other CBC folk out there who are tired of being questioned about your reproductive choices, my husband and I have come up with, "We're not allowed to have children" as our stock answer. People don't seem to know what to do with that.

Sometimes we use "We can't" and don't elaborate. Shuts them right up.

and it's not fair to give birth to a child after the age of 40 because you'll be nearing 60 or older by the time they graduate high school and it puts far too much of a burden of worry on any decent, caring child to deal with that kind of relationship.

Whoa. I completely don't agree with that. Careful you don't get too close to the "making this your business" camp that we're actively decrying here.

[Carol the Impaler]

I've only "come out" - for lack of a better term - as not wanting kids fairly recently. Those I know IRL who don't want kids... we all kind of feel it's something you shouldn't admit. Like being an atheist. :-)

[madmonk28]

My wife and I are starting to talk about having kids, but to honest, I would be fine if we don't. My reasons:
I enjoy my work, feel it is important, and don't want to slow down;
I travel a lot (some years, more than 50% of the time) that would have to change;
My work can be adventerous requiring certain risks that as a parent I wouldn't be able to do;
We live overseas in a pretty difficult environment, we'd probably have to move somewhere more stable (ie boring);
In the states, I like living in the city and if having a kid means moving to the suburbs, I would rather not have kids;

Kids seem burdensome to me. When I think about being a parent, I kind of like the idea of having them when they are old enough to do stuff with. I imagine going snorkeling with them, or trekking in the jungle. But there are a few years there where they are just absolute lumps and they sound like anchors around your neck.

[Sleeps With Butterflies]

For all you other CBC folk out there who are tired of being questioned about your reproductive choices, my husband and I have come up with, "We're not allowed to have children" as our stock answer. People don't seem to know what to do with that.

That's a good one ;)

I get pretty tired of people asking me. My friends/family know my feelings, and have for many years. If I meet someone new who asks if I have children, I kind of wrinkle my nose and say "Oh no, not for me." If they ask anything more, I try to look very concerned and say "That's pretty personal, why do you ask?"

I find that works.

[madmonk28]

I used to say "we keep having them and the state keeps taking them away." Also: "the judge ruled I'm not allowed within 500 feet of children."

[Cat Whisperer]

I've only "come out" - for lack of a better term - as not wanting kids fairly recently. Those I know IRL who don't want kids... we all kind of feel it's something you shouldn't admit. Like being an atheist. :-)
It is kinda like that, isn't it? I certainly don't tell everyone I know how I really feel about kids and the having of them.

[Audrey Levins]

Just last month I finally told my mother that I don't see myself having kids. (She adores my boyfriend and after the inevitable" do you think you will get married?" came the "what about kids?")

Affirmative to the first, negative on the second.

I told her the truth...that I think you have to really WANT kids to have kids, or it isn't fair to you or to them. So unless you can't see yourself NOT having kids, why take that chance? It's not like you can return them, or decide halfway through that it was a bad idea.

People say "But you'd be a great mom!"

Um, what makes you say that? The hours I keep? My tiny savings account? My bartending job? My fondness for nights out with vodka and the girls? My laziness?

To that they say, "Oh, well, you'd change!"

I don't want to change. Especially not for a tiny tyrant who didn't ask to be here, and who must thus always come first. For the rest of my life. Parenthood is a serious business. I respect it enough to leave it to the people who really really crave it.

[Hanna]

To that they say, "Oh, well, you'd change!"

I don't want to change. Especially not for a tiny tyrant who didn't ask to be here, and who must thus always come first. For the rest of my life. Parenthood is a serious business. I respect it enough to leave it to the people who really really crave it.

I hated it when people told me that I'd "change". What if I didn't? I know myself better than anyone else.

I read plenty of horror stories in the news about parents who didn't change their irresponsible behavior just because they've become parents.

[Cattitude]

On top of that, sometimes you get accused of being selfish for not bringing new lives into the world. I don't quite get the logic. You want me to do very specific things with my reproductive system (and to a much larger extent, someone else's, someone you have never met) so that you can squee over baby pictures for three minutes, and I'm the selfish one?

Sorry. I'm enjoying a quiet moment of RO here. ;)

I don't get the whole "you're selfish" thing either. Making a concious and mature decision NOT to bring a life into the world that you really don't desire is selfish? I could see that if the world population was in trouble. But it's not and I think it's rather unselfish to be CBC or CF.

Some parents are actually the selfish ones. I've seen instances where Mom has 5 kids and desperately wants another one and gets upset if she can't get preggers. I think 5 kids is more than enough and WHY do people need to have that many? Really, why? Because "I want them", isn't that selfish?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti child by any means but I think things need to be put in perspective at times.

[Cat Whisperer]

I can see where the perception of CBC people being selfish comes from (I'm a member of a No Kidding social group) - members of our group live pretty sweet lives, with the travelling and the nice homes and the loving relationships with their spouses. People just don't make the connection that their decision to have a child who has turned their lives upside down was also a selfish one.

[tdn]

Some parents are actually the selfish ones. I've seen instances where Mom has 5 kids and desperately wants another one and gets upset if she can't get preggers. I think 5 kids is more than enough and WHY do people need to have that many? Really, why? Because "I want them", isn't that selfish?
Exactly. And so many parents want to have their own kids rather than adopt. They want clones of themselves that they can adore. OK, I understand the evolutionary principle behind it, but sheesh.

I must say that I'm impressed with the SDMB here. Not a single person has come into this thread to argue with our choices. Respect.

[TroubleAgain]

1. I have no burning desire to be a mother, and I feel you should *really* want to be a mother if you're going to be one.
2. I have an anxiety disorder that makes life hard enough without the additional responsibility.
3. I like my marriage and life just like they are, thanks.
4. Children get on my last nerve.

[vivalostwages]

I don't dislike kids, but I just don't want them around most of the time. Too much noise, too much mess, and so on.

And the thought of having to take a bunch of kids in a mini-van to soccer practice or some such thing would make me throw myself over a cliff.

[Sunrazor]

I can easily imagine that there are married people who, when they think of having children, are simply not drawn to do that. It could be as simple as, "Do you want tea or not?" and just not wanting tea right then. My wife and I raised two sons and are eagerly anticipating our first grandchild, but I can completely understand someone looking around their home and thinking, "I really don't want to clutter/mess/fill this up with children and their stuff." I think that's the really great thing about reproductive freedom of choice.

Personally, I can't imagine my life without my boys and their wives and their children. I love a full, messy, noisy house. But it's not for everybody, and people who opt to not have kids shouldn't think they have to have a reason. Nobody owes anyone an explanation for their reproductive choices.

Of course, people like Annie X-mas may have given the topic long, heart-rending consideration and made a decision they think is right. It may even have caused some personal pain or a sense of loss. But I have to respect and even admire the choice and the person's integrity in sticking with it. (But I have to agree, Annie, that having been abused doesn't automatically mean you have to complete the cycle. Judging from your many posts, I think you're exactly the kind of person to break that cycle. I can't address the genetic issue you mentioned, however.)

[Katriona]

For all you other CBC folk out there who are tired of being questioned about your reproductive choices, my husband and I have come up with, "We're not allowed to have children" as our stock answer. People don't seem to know what to do with that.

I often say that I can't bear children, so there are several meanings, and people can interpret it however their filters allow. Further questioning results in an icy stare over the tops of my glasses.

[cwthree]

I've simply never wanted to have children. I don't dislike kids, and I really do enjoy watching other people having fun with their kids. It's not so much as aversion as an absence of desire.

I've been aware of feeling this way since some time in my teens, and I'm middle-aged now. My "biological clock" has been broken since my early 20's, a fact which I regard with much relief.

[Annie-Xmas]

IOf course, people like Annie X-mas may have given the topic long, heart-rending consideration and made a decision they think is right. It may even have caused some personal pain or a sense of loss. But I have to respect and even admire the choice and the person's integrity in sticking with it. (But I have to agree, Annie, that having been abused doesn't automatically mean you have to complete the cycle. Judging from your many posts, I think you're exactly the kind of person to break that cycle. I can't address the genetic issue you mentioned, however.)

Thank you. but I was simply not willing to take the risk. Yes, I might have broken the cycle of abuse, but if I didn't and abused my own children, it would have totally broken me. From 20 to 30 I was a messy, nasty drunk, from 30 to 38 I was too busy getting sober and it's only recently I've stopped beng nasty. I'm still that way when I get angry or frustrated. And parenting is a lot of self-control when your children make you angry or frustrated.

[TroubleAgain]

I often say that I can't bear children, so there are several meanings, and people can interpret it however their filters allow. Further questioning results in an icy stare over the tops of my glasses.

Oh, that's a good one! :cool:

[Trunk]

Oh, that's a good one! :cool:
Even better if a guy says it.

[Bryan Ekers]

Don't care for 'em, don't want 'em.

[tdn]

Even better if a guy says it.
Hell yeah. I'm using it from now on.

[Antinor01]

To that they say, "Oh, well, you'd change!"

I don't want to change. Especially not for a tiny tyrant who didn't ask to be here, and who must thus always come first. For the rest of my life. Parenthood is a serious business. I respect it enough to leave it to the people who really really crave it.

I'm with you on that. I don't want to change, I like my life.

My main reasons; I have no parental instinct at all. I don't have some burning desire to scatter my genetic material to the four winds in the guise of an army of little people. I don't particularly care for little kids, I don't strongly dislike them....but I only like them in small, controlled doses.

My SO and I discussed children several times over the first 5 or so years of our relationship and concluded that even if either or both of us wanted children, that we would not make the best parental team. He was raised very leniently (his mother has told me that growing up he was only allowed to do whatever the hell he wanted to) and would want to raise kids in a somewhat similar manner. I had a more strict upbringing and would mostly follow that. It just wouldn't work together. So, no kids for me!

[Cat Whisperer]

I often say that I can't bear children, so there are several meanings, and people can interpret it however their filters allow. Further questioning results in an icy stare over the tops of my glasses.
Jeeze, I just got that (after others had pointed it out). :smack: I blame the head cold and stress.

[Cluricaun]

You can buy a house and sell it when you don't want it anymore. Same with a car, same with a giraffe if you so choose, but just try selling a kid when you don't want it anymore. Ebay is run by a bunch of close minded dicks. ;)

[Annie-Xmas]

I'd like to add that some of the people who are aghast when they found out I didn't want and didn't have any children are also aghast that my sister the lesbian did want and did have children.

There's a serious double standard there. Every woman in the entire world should want and have children, excepting the lesbos.

[NinjaChick]

I want my life to go this way: ------>.

Having kids is a move in this direction: <--------.

Also, I don't like kids, and even if I could tolerate them more, it still wouldn't be enough for me to go through the physical hell of pregnancy.

[Acsenray]

1. It's too expensive to have children. Food, clothing, cost of extra space, education, child care, health care.
2. Even without children, everyday chores take up too much time. In American society. there are no servants or extended family members to take care of daily chores -- cleaning, laundry, cooking, shopping, home repairs. There is no one to help with child care.
3. When you have children, their needs and preferences not only become priorities, but (as I look at people around me) they become exclusive -- every single non-employment-related activity is based on the needs or the preferences of the children.
4. One might have doubts about one's ability to handle the stress of being responsible for children.

[madmonk28]

I'd like to add that some of the people who are aghast when they found out I didn't want and didn't have any children are also aghast that my sister the lesbian did want and did have children.

There's a serious double standard there. Every woman in the entire world should want and have children, excepting the lesbos. I find the kind of people who worry about whether you have children, get married, whatever; have a very specific bluepring in their head that everyone else in the world should follow. I have come to the conclusion that they are miserable and want everyone else to be miserable.

[ZipperJJ]

You can buy a house and sell it when you don't want it anymore. Same with a car, same with a giraffe if you so choose, but just try selling a kid when you don't want it anymore. Ebay is run by a bunch of close minded dicks. ;)

You know, come to think of it...having kids is just about the only thing you can do that you can't "take back." That's pretty fucking scary right there.

[Pithy Moniker]

Oh the reasons are many and varied in my case.

My two cents on the selfishness of not having kids: I've always believed that having children you can't afford or having too many children is one of the most selfish and irresponsible things you can do. One of my brothers is 26 and has two kids of his own and three stepchildren. He affords them all (barely) by working two full time jobs and being horribly tired all the time. My sister is 24, unmarried and has three children (by three fathers) that she can not afford. She relies on relatives to support her and them as her 15 hour a week job doesn't even come close to covering costs.

My wife and I both work and have decent jobs but a kid would almost certainly mean that she'd stop working for at least a year or more. We could not maintain what our current lifestyle on my paycheck alone. We'd have to give up too many things that quite frankly I'm not willing to give up.

Besides the economics, kids are an enormous time sink. My best friend at work had a kid a little over a year ago. He can easily afford having his wife stay at home but he's miserable. He'd never admit it but it's the truth. His entire evenings and weekends are centered around what 'the baby' needs or wants. There's almost no time left for himself. I recently started guitar lessons and he told me how much he'd wishes he could take up a hobby like that but it's just not feasible with his current home life. No thanks, that's NOT for me.

Religion is factor as well. I am an atheist and my wife is a Catholic. Though not terribly devout, she has said that she wants to raise any children that we might have as Catholic. Obviously, I have major problems with that. Since we can't have it both ways, we've talked about compromises. She gets to have a christening ceremony but I don't have to participate. She gets to take them to church but I get to tell them that it's all a load of hooey. It would be a constant and horrible strain and would drive a wedge between us that does not exist now. The best solution is to just avoid the problem altogether.

Kids have too many checks in the 'cons' column and nearly none in the 'pros' column. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Athena]

Religion is factor as well. I am an atheist and my wife is a Catholic. Though not terribly devout, she has said that she wants to raise any children that we might have as Catholic. Obviously, I have major problems with that. Since we can't have it both ways, we've talked about compromises. She gets to have a christening ceremony but I don't have to participate. She gets to take them to church but I get to tell them that it's all a load of hooey. It would be a constant and horrible strain and would drive a wedge between us that does not exist now. The best solution is to just avoid the problem altogether.


That is *exactly* the household I grew up in. Mother was very Catholic, father is atheist.

Surprisingly enough, it wasn't all that bad. My mother herded us all off to church, my father would make comments about it all being a load of hooey. We all went to Catholic school.

It never seemed to be a strain on my parents at all. They just exposed us to both sets of beliefs and didn't do much beyond that.

For what it's worth, none of us are church-goers as adults. I don't know my brother's specific beliefs, but I hover between agnostic and atheist. So Dad won :-)

[Hogwash]

I'm not so much childless by choice as by circumstance. Usually you need the whole 'penis goes into the vagina' setup to breed.

Having said that, I can't see myself wanting kids, at least not for a long, long time. Granted, I'm young (23), so there's still plenty of time, but I just can't see myself being in the position that I would like to be in before having kids. I still don't have a 'career', I don't own property or make a lot of money, I haven't found anyone to play mommy, nor am I particularly happy or fulfilled in my own domain. And until all of these criteria are met, I won't even consider bringing a helpless, screaming, poop & vomit machine into this world.

Furthermore, is this world so brilliant that we're doing children a favour by having them? There's shit loads of cynical advertising everywhere you turn, mothers are brawling over school placements and piano teachers, depression rates are fucking abysmal, we're all (apparently) time-poor and overworked, we're fucking the environment over, etc. Yeah, the media hype over terrorists and paedophiles is way overblown, but life is crappy enough without having to try and raise kids, it seems to me.

[silenus]

I deal with kids all freaking day as my job. Why on earth would I want to come home to more of the same?

[El Perro Fumando]

I deal with kids all freaking day as my job. Why on earth would I want to come home to more of the same?
This was the reason my favorite teacher in high school gave. It's the reason I use most often now.

Our reasons are simple: we enjoy our current lifestyle too much to have someone else living with us.

On a recent Friday, Only Mostly Dead walked in the door complaining that he has had it with his old car and was kind of taken aback when I said rather nonchalantly "Then go buy a new one." He spent the next 48 hours researching and we bought one on Monday.

I don't think I could have the same attitude on our salaries if we had to support a child.

[Hogwash]

One thing I forgot to add to my previous post is that everybody, parents and childless/childfree people alike, should read Nicki Defago's Childfree and Loving it. It's a great read on the subject and offers insight into people who don't want kids, people who've had kids and regret it, and people who enjoy being parents.

[LilGypsyGirl]

I have all the maternal instincts of a dragon lizard - given a chance, they eat their young (hell, one of my pet ones ate her own eggs). You have children. I am pleased for you. I may think that they are tiresome, demanding, selfish, smelly, screaming, expensive, ungrateful parasites, but that's not important. You love them. They are the center of your world, your entire reason for existing. Good for you. I can just about cope with the fact that every sentence you utter starts with the name of one of the blessed offspring, or the phrase "my child" - after all, I can always stop listening if I get sick of it. I can just about cope with your bewilderment at finding out that the rest of the world does not regard your little darlings as the center of the universe (I'm just as bewildered as to why you'd think they'd be the center of anyone else's universe). But I am sick to death of and WILL NOT TOLERATE WITH GOOD GRACE your vicious, virulent and venomous ranting attacks on me for choosing not to have children of my own. What the hell does it matter to you?

You have chosen to be a parent, and that's your business and your life choice. I have chosen not to be a parent, and that's my business and my life choice. Why the hell do so many of you feel the need to attack me with such a malevolent torrent of abuse for this? You hiss at me, through a face contorted by anger, that I am "not a real woman if you don't want children", that I am "doomed to a life of regretful yearning", and I will definitely become "a shriveled, twisted and vicious old woman driven by resentment and bitterness." (There is also usually mention of cats. Not sure where the cats come into it - some sort of bizarre contraceptive process?) Er, excuse me? "Resentment"? "Bitterness"? So, not like what you, in your blissful maternity, are pouring over me?

What I said was, "I don't really like children and don't want to have any of my own". What you seem to think I said was, "I'm in favor of bashing them to death at birth, selling them for medical experiments or organ harvesting, feeding them to carnivores at the zoo or mincing them up to be sold as pet food."

Can you either get your hearing aid fixed, or try to get a bit of perspective here?

Could it be, could it possibly be, that sometimes, when you've been awake for 48 hours with an unsettled baby, whilst your toddler tantrums and screams until he pukes because he's not allowed to continue drawing on the walls with your most expensive lipstick, and your hair is full of cereal and your shirt has milk stains and you can't buy that DVD or book or dress because the money went on more Huggies and the new booster seat, and you can't even leave the house without going through a logistical exercise that makes the US deployment to Iraq look like a quick trip to the park, could it be that a tiny, tiny treacherous little voice deep inside your head mutters to you that your blissful maternity is not, in fact, 24-hours-a-day heavenly fulfillment? Possibly? Maybe just a little???

If I am missing out on the joys of parenthood, then huzzah for you, you will enjoy a contentment that I will never know. Could it be that you, in fact, are the one seething with bitterness and resentment? Do you look at me - body, mind, career, and disposable income unravaged by the brutal realities of bearing and raising children - and somehow feel that my contented child-freedom is an insult to you? Do I remind you of what you've chosen to give up?

If you sometimes miss the freedoms that you had before you became a parent, surely it's perfectly normal to have occasional thoughts like that. I'll bet all parents have such thoughts from time to time (for example, when the lipstick artistry explores new inspirations. And walls.)

I have friends who are parents and they acknowledge what they have given up to become parents - they compare it to what they have gained, and judge it to be worthwhile. They sometimes mention doubts during the most difficult times; but invariably, they say they wouldn't change anything, and they're very happy with their choice. They leave it at that.

So just be happy with your kids. Stop trying to put me down in order to try to make yourself feel better about some of the more difficult aspects of parenthood. Usually, I just let you virulent breeders rant and vent at me - I suspect that I know what motivates your rage, and I pity you. But you are numerous. I'm warning you lot, the next one of you that starts to abuse me simply because I didn't breed, I will let you have it with both barrels - I will rub your nose in it, and you will wish that you'd just crossed your legs and claimed to have a headache.

[MsWhatsit]

Uh, dude. People who venomously, virulently, violently, and vehemently attack other people for not having kids suck. I think we can all agree with that. But all of the invective about "virulent breeders" etc. is not particularly pleasant either.

And my God, woman:

I will let you have it with both barrels - I will rub your nose in it, and you will wish that you'd just crossed your legs and claimed to have a headache.

The mixed metaphor! It burns!

[LilGypsyGirl]

Uh, dude. People who venomously, virulently, violently, and vehemently attack other people for not having kids suck. I think we can all agree with that. But all of the invective about "virulent breeders" etc. is not particularly pleasant either.

And my God, woman:



The mixed metaphor! It burns!

FYI - written after a particularly ugly incident with a woman at an old job (6 kids and COUNTING UP) and I was tired of her condecension.

She, in my opinon, was a "virulent breeder" and did nothing to hide her disdain for those who were childless by choice. The point of the rant was clear, and I was not TRYING to be pleasant - nor was I trying to apply perfect literary technique. Apologies for any offense to your tender sensibilities or bodily harm said "mixed metaphor" may have caused. :rolleyes:

[Siam Sam]

I simply do not like children. Period. And so have never felt the need to be a father.

The mere thought of childbirth frightens the wife to death. She was ecstatic to find someone who insisted on no children. One of the few Thai ladies who never wanted any.

[tdn]

What I said was, "I don't really like children and don't want to have any of my own". What you seem to think I said was, "I'm in favor of bashing them to death at birth, selling them for medical experiments or organ harvesting, feeding them to carnivores at the zoo or mincing them up to be sold as pet food."

Can you either get your hearing aid fixed, or try to get a bit of perspective here?
Please please please tell me you actually said that to her.

[Boyo Jim]

Too selfish.
The future looks dim.
Don't want to raise a killer.
Don't want to get stuck with a dumb kid.
Don't want divorce and child support payments.
Barely able to make rational choices for myself, let alone someone else.
Always hated parent teacher conferences.
No room in wallet for baby pictures.
Want to sleep uninterrupted.
Afraid of child predators -- everything from pedophiles to bobcats.
Too tempting to sell to rich people for parts.
Would not be able to get kid "fixed" before puberty -- I actually asked a doc about this once.
Don't want my kid to have a kid and dump it on me.
Can't afford one.
Don't want to take the time.
Don't want to move to a bigger place.
Can't stand noise of baby crying.
Can't have kid 'put down' if too ill.
Don't want to fight over internet time.

I'm sure there's a lot more. These are just off the top of my head.

[MsWhatsit]

Apologies for any offense to your tender sensibilities or bodily harm said "mixed metaphor" may have caused. :rolleyes:

Apology accepted! Except, it wasn't a "mixed metaphor". It was a mixed metaphor. But that's okay, I know you meant well.

[Sunrazor]

Whenever threads like this come along, they make me think -- in itself a damn chore, and probably dangerous -- and the thread of my thought goes like this:

Why do people have children? Well, in the olden days, it was (1) to propagate the species and (2) to have help with the mammoth-killing, seed-planting and war-fighting. It was in the process of all of those necessities of daily living that people taught children values, life skills, etc.

But now we have advanced technology and specialized people to kill the mammoths, plant the seeds and fight the wars. All we need children for is to propagate the species. So raising children, instead of being organic and inherent to survival, has become an artificial task that we've bolted onto the outside of life. And because it's no longer a necessity of day-to-day survival, we don't do a very good job of it, all in all (standard rant here about society's descent into drugs, alcohol and crime because of industrializaiton, blah, blah, blah).

So, why not turn the raising of children over to specially trained people who have the technology and talent for it? Y'know, kind of like daycare centers, only more intensive. They'd be tasked with improving the quality of children, the way agriculture tries to improve the quality of crops and livestock. It'd become a huge industry, run by giant corporations (imagine the Super Bowl ads for that company). Of course, we'd still have to give birth to the little darlings, and we'd be responsible for feeding and paying for their upkeep. But in the process, people unfit for having children (and they're out there, believe-you-me!) could be sort of subtracted from the baby-having pool until they were fit.

Of course, as with all utopias, this one rather quickly turns dystopian because I wouldn't be appointed Daycare Czar, and my vision would be twisted to serve other people's agendas, and soon only profits would matter.

That's what I get for thinking!

[Stranger On A Train]

But I have to agree, Annie, that having been abused doesn't automatically mean you have to complete the cycle. Judging from your many posts, I think you're exactly the kind of person to break that cycle.No one has really addressed this in depth, so permit me an excursion into this line of rationale. It's not just that a child of an abusive parent or relationship will unwittingly perpetuate the so-called "cycle of abuse"; the larger issue is having or developing the correct skills and attitudes to rear a child in a healthy fashion. Much of child abuse isn't intended to be hurtful per se, and the phrase "this hurts me more than it hurts you" is rarely spoken in ironic tone; the reality is that when parents visit this kind of abuse, it is done out of a twisted (and sometimes sociopathic) expression of concern. And what you learn about raising children and especially disciplining them comes almost exclusively from direct adult authority figures, primarily parents or guardians. If what you have learned is wrong and harmful, or you were just plain neglected as a child, you can command yourself to not repeat those attitudes, but then you're left with a gulf of what to do instead. A spouse or partner who has appropriate experience can go a long way to make up for this and help guide a lesser-adapted parent cope and learn, but a situation in which both parents come from a far-less-than-ideal background, or a single parent without good experience is not a good basis for child-rearing. I'm not saying that it can't be done, that a parent abused as a child can't make conscious choices to avoid abuse, but it is a lot of work and personal discipline to keep from falling into behaviors learned in childhood. Many people who are abused either don't want the effort (and don't see the benefit or desire to have children), or struggle with trying to emulate good parenting with variable results. It's also the case that people with abusive parents or families probably don't have the best familial support network to help with extended child-rearing behavior. Personally, I wouldn't want to have children without a wife who is very comfortable with the idea and willing to take the lead in outlining discipline and expectations; even then I would be very uncomfortable with being presented as a role model for social behavior, and would be concerned about imposing my own interests and goals upon them as a proxy for unfulfilled potential.

As for reactions to not having children, I think that having a family is a very character-defining life choice, and one that requires substantial sacrifice; when confronted with a very different lifestyle (especially one that is or appears to be a deliberate choice), it's natural to feel questioned or implicitly criticized, particularly when the issue of finances enters into it. Many people might be perfectly comfortable and satisfied with taking care of children, but still be resentful when presented with middle-aged childless in peak earning capacity who are able to travel, dine, and otherwise spend money freely on themselves rather than on childrens' clothes, health care, tuition, toys, et cetera. That can seem very "selfish", whereas spending money on children is (from the perspective of a parent) a "selfless sacrifice" which nonetheless deprives the parent of time, money, and energy to entertainment or self-improvement. In other words, it's all about opportunity cost. Healthy parents find a way to balance both, so that caring for children isn't just a burden and isn't a two-decade stall in personal life and development, but having that kind of balance requires a willingness to feel that children bring their own benefits and rewards.

In more metropolitan and educated societies, the cultural pressure to have children is reduced, and so the disadvantages seem larger while the perceived benefits (i.e. participating in family culture, satisfying parental expectation, et cetera) are decreased. Hence declining family sizes and increasing rates of intentional childlessness are more prevelent, as is the decision (facilitated by medical fertility technology) to defer child-rearing to a later state when potential parents are more financially and career-wise secure, even if that turns out to be not such a great advantage in the long run (if you plan to have children eventually).

Stranger

[HeyHomie]

I can't have them, and neither Mrs. Homie nor I want to go through the expense of adoption or fertility treatments. So we've chosen to be happy withou them. Easy choice, it turns out.