Bush Administration gives 22 year old guy a $300M arms contract

[RTFirefly]

And he fucks it up, of course. (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/todays_must_read_304.php)
As the Times found out, AEY fulfilled that contract by dealing with a variety of shady arms dealers (one Czech, one Swiss) to get their hands on ammo stockpiles in the old Eastern bloc. And as far as ensuring the quality of the munitions? Here's how it went in Albania:

Albania offered to sell tens of millions of cartridges manufactured as long ago as 1950. For tests, a 25-year-old AEY representative was given 1,000 cartridges to fire, according to Ylli Pinari, the director of the arms export agency at the time of the sale.

No ballistic performance was recorded, he said. The rounds were fired by hand.

Not surprisingly, the Afghan army has been unhappy with the product. AEY shipped the decades-old ammo in cardboard boxes -- apparently to save money on shipping charges. And the Times reports that the boxes arrived in Afghanistan spilling out of the boxes, "revealing ammunition manufactured in China in 1966." It's illegal to deal in Chinese arms.
There was apparently little if any evidence that these guys knew jack shit about dealing arms. Apparently any of us could do the same thing tomorrow.

[Omegaman]

There was apparently little if any evidence that these guys knew jack shit about dealing arms. Apparently any of us could do the same thing tomorrow.

Well where do I sign up? I believe I'm just the sort of dickhead who would do well in the arms business.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

"and he fucks it up, of course?"

Because of his age?

I think by now it has become obvious that the young know more about certain things than the old do. Who here would be quick to hire a 50-year-old to set up a bank of servers?

Whether this is one of them, I don't know, but the snide remark that it was age... well, hike up your pants, grandpa, your prejudice is showing.

Besides, if the contract had gone to an experienced arms dealer known to the administration, your post would have read, "Bush and Cronies Pad Friends' Pockets by Granting Them Free License to Kill Afghanis."

And, as far as the meat of the article goes, the kid got by the oversight procedures... how?


The only thing I learn from this is that I like guns and I won't be so enamored by profit that I will jeopardize my free ride by sending the drug lords who are our allies equipment that will not efficiently kill villagers. Thus, I will be happy to assume stewardship of that contract.


Tune in next week as RTFirefly reviews "Dick Cheney Sings the Veruca Salt Catalog!"

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night...

ETA: Happy SHP, as a 25-year old, I'm more than happy to leave bulk arms dealing to old people. Apart from anything else, I just can't pull off a Ukranian accent.

[Antinor01]

Well, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night...

So whadda ya want? $300 million? :D

[Lobohan]

"and he fucks it up, of course?"

Because of his age?

I think by now it has become obvious that the young know more about certain things than the old do. Who here would be quick to hire a 50-year-old to set up a bank of servers?

Whether this is one of them, I don't know, but the snide remark that it was age... well, hike up your pants, grandpa, your prejudice is showing.

I think the point was that a 22 year old doesn't have experience, in general. I certainly wouldn't hire a 22 year old just out of college to set up my servers. I'd hire a 35 year old that's been doing it for ten years and knows what's going to fuck up.

Otherwise your rant wasn't worth commenting on. Except for what I just said. :D

[Really Not All That Bright]

So whadda ya want? $300 million? :D
If anybody needs me I'll be in the attic looking for illegal Chinese rifle ammunition.

[Dangerosa]

"
I think by now it has become obvious that the young know more about certain things than the old do. Who here would be quick to hire a 50-year-old to set up a bank of servers?

Much of my server team in in their 50s and they are quite competent. It isn't universal, but it is worth noting that server and sysadmin in their 50s usually made all the STUPID mistakes back with some verison of BSD Unix or Banyan Vines and therefore don't really need to repeat them. As opposed to a 22 year old kid with a fresh scrubbed MCSE and "what do you mean change control" attitude. I think you'd be shocked how many people would be quick to hire the 50 year old.

[D_Odds]

I think the point was that a 22 year old doesn't have experience, in general. I certainly wouldn't hire a 22 year old just out of college to set up my servers. I'd hire a 35 year old that's been doing it for ten years and knows what's going to fuck up.

Otherwise your rant wasn't worth commenting on. Except for what I just said. :D
Seconded. There is no substitute for experience. Unfortunately, many don't realize that (self included) until they actually have experience.

[Marley23]

I'm 25 and I have a couple of matchbooks. $20 million, please!


...while I hate to follow a joke with a serious post, I'm not bothered by any ageism in the OP. Due diligence should have turned up not only that this guy was 22 - and while there are probably some billionaires out there who are younger than that, it would have been fair to wonder "where's he getting $300 million worth of stuff?" - but that he was a schmuck and an obvious fraud.

[Sal Ammoniac]

In all the sorry annals of the war, this episode kind of stands out. This Administration gives out $300 million contracts with about the same amount of oversight as you might get from a person handing out Halloween candy.

The only saving grace here is the RTFirefly got to this before I did, saving me the effort of crafting an OP.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Seconded. There is no substitute for experience. Unfortunately, many don't realize that (self included) until they actually have experience.
Exactly, regardless of his age, you don't just sign over a $300 M contract to someone who doesn't have exceptional credentials and experience. If he was the Doogie Howser of the arms trade with 10 years experience and several successful contracts already completed, that would be a different story.

That said, the 22-year-old took over his dad's company at the age of 19. So is it possible that he got awarded the contract based on his father's crendentials and reputation? I can't imagine how he'd get past basic oversight procedures otherwise.

[Cluricaun]

Hell, give me $300m and I’ll get you more ammo than you could shake an AK-47 at. Good stuff too. Doesn’t this kid read the Shotgun News?

[Rube E. Tewesday]

I'm kinda wonderin', though, where you find the reputable, experienced arms dealers who are bonded, insured, and happy to provide letters of reference from satisfied customers.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I'm kinda wonderin', though, where you find the reputable, experienced arms dealers who are bonded, insured, and happy to provide letters of reference from satisfied customers.
Google.

Here's one. (http://www.scaadvisors.com/captainlasnaud.htm)
I can't imagine how he'd get past basic oversight procedures otherwise
Easy answer: under the Bush admin, there are no basic oversight procedures.

[Zebra]

Send Lawyers, Guns and Money, not Idiots, Guns and Money.

[ShibbOleth]

Send Lawyers, Guns and Money, not Idiots, Guns and Money.
LAWYERS?!?

:smack:

:: scratches "Voyeurs" off his shopping list ::

[black rabbit]

"and he fucks it up, of course?"

Because of his age?

I think by now it has become obvious that the young know more about certain things than the old do. Who here would be quick to hire a 50-year-old to set up a bank of servers?


Over a 22-year-old? So far as the law allows me, you bet your ass I would.

I'm contemplating demoting a 23-year-old who was hired to replace a retiring 65-year-old server admin. The older guy knew his shit backwards and forwards. The younger guy's arrogance far exceed his abilities, and due to his inexperience and arrogance (did I mention he's arrogant?), he's made several mistakes that cost a lot of money.

Sure, there are plenty of 22-year-olds who know more than 50-year-olds on many topics. But computers have been with us for sixty years now, and the people who lived through the dot-com bubble are now in their early-to-mid 30s, at the youngest.

--black rabbit, 30-year-old IT manager

On preview:

Yeah, thirded.

[Frostillicus]

I am sure this kid will end up being Wolfowitz's nephew or Cheney's great-grandchild or some such connection.

[DoctorJ]

Hell, I kind of respect the guy. Ideally the contract would go to experienced and qualified people, but we know that Bushco will pick the incompetent boob 100% of the time. So why not be that boob?

[kaylasdad99]

"and he fucks it up, of course?"

Because of his age?Of course not.


Because it's the Bush Administration.

[T_SQUARE]

Why do they even need a dealer? Can't they US government just call up the Albanian government (or whatever party owned the ammo) directly?

[Shecky]

Exactly, regardless of his age, you don't just sign over a $300 M contract to someone who doesn't have exceptional credentials and experience. If he was the Doogie Howser of the arms trade with 10 years experience and several successful contracts already completed, that would be a different story.

That said, the 22-year-old took over his dad's company at the age of 19. So is it possible that he got awarded the contract based on his father's crendentials and reputation? I can't imagine how he'd get past basic oversight procedures otherwise.


This could have been a set-aside, which would explain why the company got the contract and didn't have to provide first article testing. A majority of contract specialists, their bosses the contracting officers and then the item manager for whatever is the item are willing to waive FAT if it means getting the item faster from a known, reliable source. What I don't get is that the engineer and item manager were supposed to approve the contractor/supplier. This often means contacting the contractor to be aware of any changes, especially in management.

The KO/KS are there to weed out the undesirable bidders. Often, it also means the bid that's just way too low (like a part that's known to be $4,000, but they're offering for $1,500). I would love to know what went on when the AAA came in to audit the transaction for litigation!

[Johnny Angel]

People, if you won't judge him by his age then please at least judge him by the fact that he looks like a doofus. (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/27/incompetence-alert-pentagon-gives-inexperienced-22-year-old-300-million-contract/)

[Merijeek]

Why do they even need a dealer? Can't they US government just call up the Albanian government (or whatever party owned the ammo) directly?

Because Government is incompetent and wasteful, of course. See, this is a perfect example!

-Joe

[Rube E. Tewesday]

Google.

Here's one. (http://www.scaadvisors.com/captainlasnaud.htm)
.

Mercenaries with mission statements.

You learn something new every day.

[hawthorne]

I sat through several days of lectures by very serious gentlemen from the Defense Acquisition University. The more they told us that this sort of thing couldn't happen, the more I looked around the room at the dodgy-looking attendees and doubted them.

[Cluricaun]

People, if you won't judge him by his age then please at least judge him by the fact that he looks like a doofus. (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/27/incompetence-alert-pentagon-gives-inexperienced-22-year-old-300-million-contract/)


Damn, they gave the Geico Caveman $300m?

[Death of Rats]

That said, the 22-year-old took over his dad's company at the age of 19. So is it possible that he got awarded the contract based on his father's crendentials and reputation? I can't imagine how he'd get past basic oversight procedures otherwise.

Dad's company started out as a small printing company according to CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/27/military.ammunition/index.html), so Dad's rep might not have been so hot in the international arms trade either. Though that would explain how he screwed this pooch so badly.

I understanding diversifying a business, but this seems a little extreme.

[Paul in Qatar]

Was it Fidel or Che who reflected that ammunition is like wine, with good and poor vintages.

[ralph124c]

Somebody in the Army Purchasing dept. had better have a VERY GOOD story, as to how this happened. my quess-the 22 YO was made "president" of a sham "company"-so that dad could avoid prosecution. 40-year old ammunition? This sounds like corruption city!

[Tuckerfan]

How the hell does one get one of these contracts? I could really use some extra cash, and I'd actually be able to deliver a quailty product.

[Steve MB]

Well where do I sign up?
Just send the cash direct to Dr. Opus Spock, Bloom County....

[Tuckerfan]

People, if you won't judge him by his age then please at least judge him by the fact that he looks like a doofus. (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/03/27/incompetence-alert-pentagon-gives-inexperienced-22-year-old-300-million-contract/)
Check out [yurl="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/27/world/27ammo03_190.jpg"]his VP.[/url] In looking at his eyes, I've got a pretty good idea where the profits went.

[Voyager]

This could have been a set-aside, which would explain why the company got the contract and didn't have to provide first article testing.
I bet you didn't know that under the Bush Administration incompetents are a protected class. Given how many they have hired and given money to, there must be a quota system in there somewhere.

[Frylock]

I kinda get the feeling, though, that this kid's been dealing with this kind of stuff from a very young age. Nothing in the story I can point to, though.

-FrL-

[MovieMogul]

His father's spoken out now (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/28/arms.dealer/index.html):Michael Diveroli, Efraim's father, told CNN affiliate WFOR-TV that he wished his son had turned his intellect elsewhere....

"I would prefer he became a nice Jewish doctor or lawyer rather than an arms dealer," WFOR quoted Michael Diveroli as saying. Priceless. :p

[Martini Enfield]

40-year old ammunition? This sounds like corruption city!

I wanted to mention that just because the ammo is 40 years old doesn't mean it's crap. I shoot 40 year old 7.62mm NATO ammo out of one of my rifles and it works just as well as anything made today. I know guys who shoot WWII vintage ammo without any problems, FWIW.

40 year old Chinese ammo is going to be crap, granted, but British/American/Australian/Western European ammo of that age should be fine, for the most part (as long as it was stored properly, which most of it has been IME.)

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

It took you three months to think that up? :D

[Martini Enfield]

It took you three months to think that up? :D

This thread was linked in another one elsewhere in the boards about some movement in the case, and I figured enough people would come in here and read this one that the point was worth commenting on...

[danceswithcats]

How the hell does one get one of these contracts? I could really use some extra cash, and I'd actually be able to deliver a quailty product.While you're delivering quailty, danceswithcatsco, LLC will deliver quality! Call now for your armaments. Operators are standing by. :p

[RTFirefly]

While you're delivering quailty, danceswithcatsco, LLC will deliver quality! Call now for your armaments. Operators are standing by. :pMaybe he meant Quayle-ty. ;)

[Scylla]

And he fucks it up, of course. (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/todays_must_read_304.php)

There was apparently little if any evidence that these guys knew jack shit about dealing arms. Apparently any of us could do the same thing tomorrow.

I'm missing the part where it talks about Bush's administration doing this. How do you know it wasn't a Democrat that was the decision maker in giving the contract.

Talk about selective perception. You hate Bush, anything the government does that is dumb or you don't like, you blame on Bush.

This is how children, simpletons and partisan wing nuts look at the world.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

I'm missing the part where it talks about Bush's administration doing this. How do you know it wasn't a Democrat that was the decision maker in giving the contract.

Talk about selective perception. You hate Bush, anything the government does that is dumb or you don't like, you blame on Bush.

This is how children, simpletons and partisan wing nuts look at the world.
I'm thinking this must be a whoosh, since Efraim Diveroli is currently 22 years old. If any other administration gave him a contract, it would have been when he was 15 or younger. Or did I misunderstand the question(?)?

[Merijeek]

I'm thinking this must be a whoosh, since Efraim Diveroli is currently 22 years old. If any other administration gave him a contract, it would have been when he was 15 or younger. Or did I misunderstand the question(?)?

See, what he's trying to deflect with (limply, as usual) is that it was probably a Democrat, during a Republican Administration with a Republican-controlled Congress that was making these arms deals.

Because, you know, the Dubya Administration was notorious for doling out really good gigs to their opponents.

-Joe

[Bryan Ekers]

Geez, the guy's too young, the ammo's too old... make up yer fucking minds!

[casdave]

Scylla That is just so very lame.

Fact is, it really doesn't matter if there was a rogue democrat in the chain, Bush is on watch, no more debate here.

If the pubs were doing things properly, then the persons awarding the contract would now be under investigation, are they ?

If not, why not?

I think we can all work out why can't we?

Just so long as Halliburtons share value stays up it'll all be fine.


Why do I hate America?

[Boozahol Squid, P.I.]

I wanted to mention that just because the ammo is 40 years old doesn't mean it's crap. I shoot 40 year old 7.62mm NATO ammo out of one of my rifles and it works just as well as anything made today. I know guys who shoot WWII vintage ammo without any problems, FWIW.

40 year old Chinese ammo is going to be crap, granted, but British/American/Australian/Western European ammo of that age should be fine, for the most part (as long as it was stored properly, which most of it has been IME.)

I've been shooting 50 year old Romanian and Bulgarian ammo for the past 5 years. I've probably shot 5,000 rounds over that time period, and I've had 1 (one) bad round out of the bunch. While prohibitions against Chinese manufactured ammo makes sense in terms of politics nowadays, I don't see what the problem with buying old Albanian, Chinese, Russian or Latverian ammo is, as long as you know it's going to be old, contains a caustic primer that will require extra care for you weapon, and have the possibility of being off. It's owned, mostly, by Western companies nowadays, and isn't any more likely than ammo made in Western countries to go to support the terroristas or the commies.

Still. Fraud's fraud. Lock the kid up.

[ralph124c]

I wanted to mention that just because the ammo is 40 years old doesn't mean it's crap. I shoot 40 year old 7.62mm NATO ammo out of one of my rifles and it works just as well as anything made today. I know guys who shoot WWII vintage ammo without any problems, FWIW.

40 year old Chinese ammo is going to be crap, granted, but British/American/Australian/Western European ammo of that age should be fine, for the most part (as long as it was stored properly, which most of it has been IME.)
..40-year old K-rations?

[ExTank]

Am I the only one to think this has OC written all over it?

[Quartz]

And he fucks it up, of course. (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/todays_must_read_304.php)

Why 'of course'? Perhaps you should read a biography of Alexander the Great? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great) article.

[RTFirefly]

Why 'of course'? Perhaps you should read a biography of Alexander the Great? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great) article.And your point being?

[RTFirefly]

I'm missing the part where it talks about Bush's administration doing this. How do you know it wasn't a Democrat that was the decision maker in giving the contract.

Talk about selective perception. You hate Bush, anything the government does that is dumb or you don't like, you blame on Bush.

This is how children, simpletons and partisan wing nuts look at the world.I've been reading the news for the past seven years. The number and scope of contracts given to people and companies who had little or no experience related to doing the things they contracted to do, is really quite impressive in this Administration.

I can't help it if you haven't noticed that fact. But your failure to be aware of that, but willingness to jump in anyway and talk about selective perception, speaks of your biases, not mine.

It is always possible that the awarding of this particular contract had nothing to do with that larger pattern. But it certainly isn't the way to bet.

[RTFirefly]

One example (http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12212005.html):
After the fall of Baghdad, Science Applications International Corp (SAIC), a defense contractor with no media experience, got a no-bid contract for the Iraqi Media Network (IMN) program.It was a $100M/year contract, and as the article points out, it didn't turn out too well.

Another (http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2005/09/13/watch_whos_cleaning_up.php):
Bechtel, the giant construction and engineering firm hired through a no-bid contract to rebuild Iraq’s electricity and water infrastructure, is reportedly in negotiation with FEMA for a contract to provide temporary housing [after Katrina], as is Fluor, another politically connected company that also worked in Iraq.

[ralph124c]

During the American Civil War, a young JP Morgan got his start-by selling condemned rifles to the Union Army!
God Bless the sharp businessment who spot an opprtunity!
I wonder if this creep is liable for the deaths resulting from defective ammunition which doesn't fire?

[Quartz]

And your point being?

Just because you're young doesn't mean you're not competent.

[Merijeek]

Just because you're young doesn't mean you're not competent.

And just because someone gave you a contract worth $300M doesn't mean you are.

But, strangely, it seems that you SHOULD be. Disagree?

-Joe

[Alessan]

Why 'of course'? Perhaps you should read a biography of Alexander the Great? Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great) article.

Exception? Meet rule.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Alexander the Great managed to conquer Iraq Mesopotamia with military equipment from, like, the 3rd century BC.

His arms contractors must have been 12.

[RTFirefly]

Just because you're young doesn't mean you're not competent.
Alessan beat me to it.

[elucidator]

And this just in....

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/waxman_says_us_embassy_in_alba.php

(Warning! Lefty site! Tighty righty proceed with shields up, and anti-cooty protocols in effect!)

Waxman Says U.S. Embassy in Albania Concealed Info About Arms Shipment

...Was the State Department involved in a shoddy and potentially illegal ammo shipment that led to the arrest of a 22-year-old Miami arms dealer last week?

That's what Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) now says. The House oversight committee says it has evidence that the U.S. embassy in Albania helped Albanian officials keep the allegedly illegal shipment of Chinese-made ammunition to Afghanistan under wraps and then failed to disclose that information when Waxman's committee asked about it....

What I Did on My Summer Vacation.

[RTFirefly]

What I Did on My Summer Vacation.I love the TPM front-page header: "State Department Involved in Dudes' Arms Deal, Waxman Alleges"

[UncleBeer]

One example (http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12212005.html):
It was a $100M/year contract, and as the article points out, it didn't turn out too well.
SAIC is an employee-owned company. Almost certainly not as politically-connected to the Bush-machine as you seem to be implying.

[RTFirefly]

SAIC is an employee-owned company. Almost certainly not as politically-connected to the Bush-machine as you seem to be implying.Hi, Unc! Nice of you to stop by. I recommend reading the posts you respond to.

The statement I was providing some for-instances of was:
The number and scope of contracts given to people and companies who had little or no experience related to doing the things they contracted to do, is really quite impressive in this Administration. Ain't nothing in there about political connections; your mind put that in on it's own, and that's not my responsibility. I mean, this thread, which I started, is about a 22-year-old duuuuude with (AFAICT) no connections whatsoever. Sheesh.

[UncleBeer]

If your implication then is not that these contracts were awarded to Bush's political bedfellows, then why do you believe they were given to ostensibly unqualified companies?

[RTFirefly]

If your implication then is not that these contracts were awarded to Bush's political bedfellows, then why do you believe they were given to ostensibly unqualified companies?I'm not following. Are you asking me why I'm sure that the companies were unqualified, or why I think that this Administration was handing out our tax dollars to unqualified companies that weren't politically connected?

My answer to the former would be: (a) no evidence of prior experience in the field, and (b) fuckups ensuing. To the latter, I've got some ideas, but another time. I could speculate, but that's all it would be, and I'm not in a mood to get drawn into positions I'm not ready to defend.

[BJMoose]

This particular case is worse than anyone has noted in this thread (info from a McClatchy Newspapers article (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/42081.html) ):

Before the contract that finally caught the attention of congresscritters, the same guy had been given other contracts and repeatedly screwed the pooch. Sez the article before me: Diveroli's record "included delivering damaged helmets to Iraq, falsely blaming a hurricane in Miami for failing to deliver 10,000 pistols to Iraq's security forces and delivering the wrong model of laser pointer and rifle attachments to the U.S. Embassy in Columbia." Indeed, "several contracts were 'terminated for cause' ".

And by the way: Efraim Diveroli is on the State Department's Watch List.

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and Bob.

Where's Harry Truman when you need him?