Not "sociopath" but...

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

What do you call it when someone is totally unable to emotionally connect or bond with other people and therefore all their emotions are feigned?

I used to have a co-worker like this. Totally non-violent, not particularly narcissitic or manipulative, but really obviously not emotionally connected to other people. She displays a pronounced emotional detatchment, but she can feign appropriate emotions as long as social expectations are fairly obvious or there are other people for her to immitate.

A few people in the office were talking about her the other day. They think she is a sociopath, but that doesn't seem right.

Rather than disregarding the laws of society or thinking she is above them, the rules of etiquette and protocol seem to be the only way she is able to interact with people eg/ invitations, RSVPs, and thank you cards. She understands transactions. You exchange money for goods to get something you want. So she will congratulate you on your new purchase. She'll have a creepy fake smile and say: "A new tie! How wonderful for you!"

Any expectation of more complex emotions has her sitting there staring at you blankly. Eg/ A co-worker who stopped in to show off her newborn and she asked the new mom: "What do you do with it?" But as long as someone else responds, thus providing her with an example as a cue, then she'll be able to put on the fake smile and say: "A new daughter! How wonderful for you!" It's like she just doesn't process emotions or have any ability to read or empathize with other people's emotions.

I looked up a list of disorders on the 'net, and nothing seems right.

[Shagnasty]

There are some disorders on the Autism spectrum that sound similar. In particular, it sounds like it could be a milder version of Asperger Syndrome. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)

"The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture."

[Athena]

My mother-in-law is like this. I'm hardly an expert, but I've often wondered if she had a form of Asperger Syndrome.

It's funny you mention the baby thing - I had a very similar experience with M-i-L last summer. We were at a Fourth of July festival in a local park, and ran into my aunt and mother. Aunt had just gotten a call on her cell phone telling her that her daughter just had a baby, and Aunt was ecstatic. I overheard her telling the news to my M-i-L. M-i-L had no reaction. None. There was a very slight pause, then she changed the subject to something completely different and mundane ("the hotdogs here are really good" or some such thing)

I've seen her do this so many times, to so many people, that I've come to the conclusion that it's something not right in her. I used to think she was merely rude, but I don't think that any more - she just doesn't know how to react or how to connect with people. She's VERY much "transactional", as you mention below. If someone does something for her, she'll do something back. But she doesn't understand that things aren't a balance sheet, and it's OK if things don't even up all the time.

Probably the worst thing is that she has no empathy for others. My mother, for example, has broken lunch dates with her on occasion. My mother is the primary caregiver for my very old grandmother, she's in her 70s herself, and my Dad's had a bunch of health problems over the past couple years. When the lunch date was canceled, it was because my mother simply got overwhelmed with her responsibilities, and was tired. All M-i-L understands is that my mother canceled on her - there is no understanding or sympathy that sometimes people overbook and my mother, of all people, has a lot on her shoulders. In M-i-L's eyes, my mother is "flighty" and can't keep a promise.

I would looove to get her tested for Asperger, but I don't think it's going to happen. And even if it did, I'm not sure anything could be done - she's almost 70 and pretty set in her ways.

So, anyway, I don't have anything solid to offer you, other than I know someone similar to your coworker.

[pravnik]

Possibly schizoid personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder) or schizotypal personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder)?

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

I thought of Aspergers but that's doesn't seem quite right either because there is no impairment at all with non-verbal communication (other than the fact that it's creepily insincere). For example, far from avoiding eye-contact, she used to stare at you really intently because she was trying to get a clue from your expression what her appropriate response might be.

Once she would figure out what the appropriate response is, her body language is on target, although slightly exaggerated (like she got the right ingredients for the recipe, but was a little foggy on the correct amounts).

Her job was sales and she was really good at it on the phone because her default was to sound enthuastic. To make up for the lack of visual cues, she would ask: "And how was that?" a lot.

If a client said: "My son's team won their game!" She would enthusiastically say: "Uh-huh! Uh-huh! And how was that?" so the client would answer: "We're so proud/happy/whatever." and that would provider her with what she needed to continue the conversation. "How wonderful for you!"

It works well for her because she tries so hard to fill in the blank with the correct response. So she's good at her job, because in short telephone sales conversations, you don't see the weird body language and clients get to gush about themselves. In person though, it comes across more like... parody somehow.

It sounds more like what Athena described. She can keep up if everything follows a transaction pattern, but if she has to intuit more complexed or nuanced emotions, she can't keep up. But her strategies seem to work okay.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Possibly schizoid personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder) or schizotypal personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder)?I looked up those too, but they don't fit. She's not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She's totally into the itemizable stuff like that.

She doesn't avoid people, she tries really hard to interact (or pretends to).

Is there some kind of "broken social bonding" disorder?

[Duck Duck Goose]

[slightly aside]
[not snark, just wondering]

Can I ask, why does she need to have a label, a "disorder"? Why can't she just be someone who has trouble connecting emotionally to other people? I know two people like that, but I don't feel a need to say, "Oh, he's like that because he has X Syndrome"; I just call the one "Mister Strangeperson" and the other one "The World's Oldest Thirteen-Year-Old" and let it go at that.

And actually, what you're describing--someone who tries hard to fit in but seems a little distant--just sounds like "social awkwardness", a lack of social skills. Lots of people out there have a lack of social skills. I myself probably strike people as like your co-worker; I tend to be emotionally detached, and sometimes don't know what to say in social situations, so I fall back on general pleasantries which may not always be exactly what the situation calls for. But I'd be surprised to find that someone thought I had Asperger's or something. I'm shy and awkward, not dysfunctional.

[Athena]

And actually, what you're describing--someone who tries hard to fit in but seems a little distant--just sounds like "social awkwardness", a lack of social skills. Lots of people out there have a lack of social skills. I myself probably strike people as like your co-worker; I tend to be emotionally detached, and sometimes don't know what to say in social situations, so I fall back on general pleasantries which may not always be exactly what the situation calls for. But I'd be surprised to find that someone thought I had Asperger's or something. I'm shy and awkward, not dysfunctional.

You might be right, but with my M-i-L, it's not just "shy and awkward." It's hard to describe. Mr. Athena used to tell me all the time that there was something very weird about his mother, but I never saw it until she moved closer to us and I saw her more often.

[pravnik]

I looked up those too, but they don't fit. She's not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She's totally into the itemizable stuff like that.It does sound a lot like Asperger's, but some people with schizoid personality disorder present themselves as outwardly engaging while inwardly emotionally unavailable, the "secret schizoid." From the wikipedia article:

According to Ralph Klein[20] there are many fundamentally schizoid individuals who present with an engaging, interactive personality style which contradicts the timidity, reluctance, or avoidance of the external world and interpersonal relationships as emphasized by the DSM-IV and ICD-10 definitions of the schizoid personality. Klein classifies these individuals as secret schizoids[20] who present themselves as socially available, interested, engaged, and involved in interacting in the eyes of the observer, while at the same time, he or she is apart, emotionally withdrawn, and sequestered in a safe place in his or her own internal world. So, while withdrawnness or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology, it is sometimes overt and sometimes covert. While it is overt it matches the usual description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. According to Klein, though, it is "just as often" a covert, hidden internal state of the patient in which what meets the objective eye may not be what is present in the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient’s withdrawnness through the patient’s defensive, compensatory, engaging interaction with external reality. Klein suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy.[20] Descriptions of the schizoid personality as hidden behind an outward appearance of emotional engagement have long been recognized, beginning with Fairbairn's (1940) description of 'schizoid exhibitionism' in which he remarked that the schizoid individual is able to express quite a lot of feeling and to make what appear to be impressive social contacts but in reality giving nothing and losing nothing, because since he is only playing a part his own personality is not involved. According to Fairbairn, the person "...disowns the part which he is playing and thus the schizoid individual seeks to preserve his own personality intact and immune from compromise."

[nofloyd]

I thought of Aspergers but that's doesn't seem quite right either ... For example, far from avoiding eye-contact, she used to stare at you really intently because she was trying to get a clue from your expression what her appropriate response might be.


Still sounds like Aspergers to me. I thought that improper staring is one of the coping mechanisms some adopt when they realize they need extra help. And Apergers/autistic disorders are a spectrum, that can present mildly or very impairing.

I know someone who is very likely a mild Asperger's case, who leads a pretty normal life all things considered, but has many 'tricks' to get by. Knowing the script for a situation helps him out very much.

Any signs like an obsessive interest they are expert about, repetitive movements? Any atypical use of language? Intonation?

Social register? My guy always errs on being too polite, doesn't understand when a more informal speech pattern is appropriate. Ex., leaving a phone message for an intimate friend, he'll end with "Please return my call at your earliest convenience" - like it's a business call.

Echolalia? Repetition of vocalizations made by another person. His is delayed echolalia. There are odd phrases he repeats originally made by others years ago when the right situation arises. It's a compulsion, sometimes I've caught him trying to fight it. And it's stuff no one else would understand. I asked him about a phrase he's sometimes compelled to utter in laundromats that makes him sound like a racist jerk. Turns out it something his town's mayor said 25 years ago and he agrees that it was a racist thing to say and he doesn't think that way. Doesn't click that no one remembers this and people will thinks it's his own belief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers

[Mr. Slant]

There are some disorders on the Autism spectrum that sound similar. In particular, it sounds like it could be a milder version of Asperger Syndrome. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)

"The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture."

You just described the hell out of me.
I have an ex-girlfriend on the Dope who may wish to chime in on whether that fits. She's invited to.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Can I ask, why does she need to have a label, a "disorder"? Why can't she just be someone who has trouble connecting emotionally to other people?She doesn't need a label, but her behavior is so extremely odd, I was wondering if there was a corresponding pathology that might explain it.

For example, if you saw me shuffling along, maybe it's just that I have an unusual way of walking, but if it's a really pronounced limp, you'd probably wonder if I'd gone and hurt myself.

There's "wow, she's really weird!" eccentric and then there is "we are afraid of her" eccentric. She tended to be the latter. Not scary, but she made everyone uneasy enough that no one wanted to run into her in a dark alley.

She also used to buy baby clothes for her children. She doesn't have any children, wasn't pregnant, and had no plans on becoming pregnant. She also asked a friend host her bridal shower, but she was single at the time (no boyfriend or fiance). She was just "planning ahead".

[Mr. Slant]

I looked up those too, but they don't fit. She's not a loner or anything. In fact she likes to host events and invites my female co-workers to tea and stuff. That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She's totally into the itemizable stuff like that.

She doesn't avoid people, she tries really hard to interact (or pretends to).

Is there some kind of "broken social bonding" disorder?

That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She's totally into the itemizable stuff like that.

Uh, that also sounds like an Aspie trait.
Won't say that's her situation, but heads up.

[bordelond]

Another thing about Asperger's -- or indeed, most psychological exceptionalities -- is that they fall on a continuum between "no symptoms at all" through "full-blown expression of all the symptoms". Swallowed's coworker may have a relatively mild case, exhibiting only a few of the wide gamut of Asperger's symptoms.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Actually, I retract part of my last post. I don't think anyone would ever have been afraid to run into her in a dark alley. She seemed to have a really good heart actually. And it was completely unfair for me to be an ass and say that.

But she did make everyone extremely uneasy. Like if you're a guy, and you get an invitation to a bridal shower for someone who isn't getting married, it kind of weirds you out a little.

[Sunspace]

I read something recently about not being able to perceive other people emotionally. It was related to face blindness, but I can't seem to find it.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

That way she can fill out invitations, response cards, and then send thank you cards to those who attend. She's totally into the itemizable stuff like that.

Uh, that also sounds like an Aspie trait.
Won't say that's her situation, but heads up.Huh, I never thought of that. You're right. And a lot of what nofloyd described is on target too. She did seem fine in really predictable social circumstances (that could follow an anticipated pattern).

Anyway, I can't even remember how she came up in conversation. Just some of my co-workers were speculating that she was a "sociopath" and I thought that was total BS. She was never self-centered and manipulative. Just "disconnected."

As I said, I was a total ass when I said that uncalled for "dark alley" bit. She's definitely unusual, but she makes an enormous effort to be nice to people and fit in.

[Mr. Slant]

Op,

Would you say that she's running her social skills in emulation rather than directly on the hardware?

[Soul]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunted_affect

What you're describing sounds to me like the more serious version of Blunted Affect, Flat Affect. This is a symptom of other disorders, not a disorder in and of itself. It's often described as "knowing the words but not the music," or "wearing a mask of sanity."

As usual, this is mere recollection from one or two of my classes (this one comes as a combination from Abnormal Psychology and Criminal Psychology). YMMV.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Op,

Would you say that she's running her social skills in emulation rather than directly on the hardware?Yup, exactly. And her emulation tends to be a little larger than life too (hence the previous comparisson to parody).

I've noticed my female co-workers found her much more unsettling than the guys did, for some reason. I think there was stuff going on that the guys weren't privvy to, but I do know that once she caused enough of a problem in her department that management had to intervene.

I just found it exceptionally difficult to have a conversation with her, and some of her more unusual invitations to be on the "creepy" side of socially inappropriate.

[The Them]

There IS a word for this - racking my brains, I'll find it - and it's been used (not so inaccurately) to describe me. It's in the same general principle as color-blindness, but it means that many social signals simply don't register. So there are certain tricks one learns, to get by in the world (and actually are trying to be nice, but noone can tell). The word has about fifteen syllables, and it's something on the same page as "anhedonia" and I'll post now and poke around for it.

[Hypno-Toad]

You just described the hell out of me.
Same here. But we need to be careful about falling for confirmation bias. You may only be thinking about the things you have in common with the description and not the ways in which you vary from it. But I see a lot of myself in much of the descriptions, though.

Creepy.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Now that I think about Duck Duck Goose's post, more:Can I ask, why does she need to have a label, a "disorder"? Why can't she just be someone who has trouble connecting emotionally to other people? I know two people like that, but I don't feel a need to say, "Oh, he's like that because he has X Syndrome";I don't think I'm necessarily looking for the name of a "disorder" but more the adjective that describes a quality that is associated with a disorder (or several disorders).

So let's say I'm looking for the term XXXXXX.

I'm not necessarily looking for it this way: "Oh, he's like that because he has XXXXXX."

But rather I'm looking for: "Oh, he's XXXXXX (adjective describing the quality of being unable to make emotional connections or have any kind of external emotional awareness or bond) because he has X Syndrome/was injured/whatever."

ETA: For example you could say: "Cellphone is passive-aggressive because he has Borderline Personality Disorder." I'm not looking for "borderline" I'd be looking for the term "passive-aggressive."

So "Odd co-worker behaves in a XXXXXXX way because she may have Asperger's or just be extremely eccentric."

[Bryan Ekers]

"The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or enjoy spontaneous interests or achievements with others, a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture."

I got that, but it's because most people are jerks.

[kunilou]

What do you call it when someone is totally unable to emotionally connect or bond with other people and therefore all their emotions are feigned?

I used to have a co-worker like this. Totally non-violent, not particularly narcissitic or manipulative, but really obviously not emotionally connected to other people. She displays a pronounced emotional detatchment, but she can feign appropriate emotions as long as social expectations are fairly obvious or there are other people for her to immitate.

Back in the days before there was a psychological description for every behavior, we simply called this type of person "kind of a dork."

I'm not sure any other description is really necessary.

[Harriet the Spry]

I read this information recently about how Asperger's manifests differently in males and females. Your post brought this passage to mind:

"Some individuals with Asperger's Syndrome can be quite ingenious in using imitation and modelling to camouflage their difficulties in social situations. One strategy that has been used by many girls and some boys is to observe people who are socially skilled and to copy their mannerisms, voice and persona. This is a form of social echolalia or mirroring where the person acquires a superficial social competence by acting the part of another person. This is illustrated in Liane Holliday-Willeys intriguing new autobiography, titled, "Pretending to be Normal"."

This is a quote from some other work, but I found it on this site: http://wisewitch.blogspot.com/2008/02/aspie-girls.html

[F. U. Shakespeare]

In my office, they call us 'engineers'. Or, in extreme cases, 'mathematicians'.

[smithsb]

In my office, they call us 'engineers'. Or, in extreme cases, 'mathematicians'.
BRILLIANT, and just before lunch over here too! I would have lost it all as I collapsed on the floor.

[ParentalAdvisory]

My guess--doesn't necessarily care about the people she works with, but interacts with them half-assed just enough to get through the day so she can get home and spend time with people she really cares about.

Diagnosis: Normal.

[Ferret Herder]

My guess--doesn't necessarily care about the people she works with, but interacts with them half-assed just enough to get through the day so she can get home and spend time with people she really cares about.

Diagnosis: Normal.
Not if she's asking what on earth you do with it, when presented with a coworker's newborn baby. Even childless-by-choice people like me know how to make the appropriate "how adorable" type comments for that situation.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

My guess--doesn't necessarily care about the people she works with, but interacts with them half-assed just enough to get through the day so she can get home and spend time with people she really cares about.No, that is not the situation. We have been in social situations with her outside the office. She would go out of her way to invite people from the office to various functions and her interaction with ALL people is exactly the same, including the people who she describes as her "nearest and dearest".

Granted, my co-worker helped set up the eVite for a party for her "nearest and dearest" friends, and many declined the invitation on the grounds that they didn't know her well enough to attend. My fiancee and I attended (to maintain workplace harmony and not offend her), and found most of the people who actually attended were not much "nearer or dearer" than we were.

[Balthisar]

Not if she's asking what on earth you do with it, when presented with a coworker's newborn baby. Even childless-by-choice people like me know how to make the appropriate "how adorable" type comments for that situation.
Hmmm... maybe I'm a freak, too. I mean, I know not to ask "what do you do with it?", but only because I know intellectually that that's a freakish question. Whenever presented with newborns (and I'm childless, no conscious choice), I have no idea how to respond. My internal dialogue is along the lines of, "Okay, that's nice. Now what do I do? Obviously he's proud, but there's absolutely nothing here that I can relate to. So what do people say in these situations?" And then I try to say what I imagine people should say, and usually come off as a freak. I mean, jeesh, why is it expected that I have an emotional connection with someone else's kid? I don't even know him yet, and he can't speak and have a discussion in any event.

[Hypno-Toad]

I got that, but it's because most people are jerks.
One guy actually hypothesized that I was borderline aspergers because of the way I reacted to him. He of course couldn't see my point of view which is that I found him banal and irritating and kept him at a distance. Yeah, buddy. Someone isn't acting like you're god so obviously THEY have some kind of disorder.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Hmmm... maybe I'm a freak, too. I mean, I know not to ask "what do you do with it?", but only because I know intellectually that that's a freakish question. Whenever presented with newborns (and I'm childless, no conscious choice), I have no idea how to respond. My internal dialogue is along the lines of, "Okay, that's nice. Now what do I do? Obviously he's proud, but there's absolutely nothing here that I can relate to. So what do people say in these situations?" And then I try to say what I imagine people should say, and usually come off as a freak. I mean, jeesh, why is it expected that I have an emotional connection with someone else's kid? I don't even know him yet, and he can't speak and have a discussion in any event.Yes, but that is one kind of awkward thing, but not in a greater scheme of odd behavior. I'm one of those guys who gets all squicky with babies too. I don't know what to say or how to handle them. I can say "Congrats, you must be proud..." and then hope no one wants to hand the kid to me because I'm afraid of dropping him/her. I'm such an awkward boob, I don't like meeting newborns because I know I'll stick my foot in my mouth.

My odd former co-worker's behavior though has a bigger context of odd behavior.

Lemme add some backstory:

She had been buying clothes for her "own baby" for all the six years she was working here. "Look at this outfit I got for my baby, isn't it cute?" "Oh, are you expecting?" "No." (Okay, maybe she's planning ahead.)

While she was working here, she had a bridal shower. "Congratulations, when's the big day?" "Oh, there's no date set." So there was no wedding planned for the forseeable future... and no ring, and no one at the office knew her fiance's name. A co-worker attended the shower and said it was weird because there no friends or family members present, just neighbors and co-workers. When she stopped working here a year later she wasn't married. (Okay, so there could still be a logical explanation, tragic break-up or something.)

So with that stage set, wanting to see my co-worker's new baby, then asking: "What do you do with it?" like the kid was a thing is on a whole other level of weirdness, than your standardly awkward-don't-like-kids person.

[Mr. Slant]

That certainly does a better job of colouring this individual with the Crayon labelled Bizarre.
Wow.
That's, ummmm... yeah, that passes from the realm of socially clueless to out of touch with reality.
Perhaps there really is a fiancee who she really did expect to propose?
Perhaps this guy is actually just a guy that doesn't know her and works behind the counter at the gas station on the corner next her house?
Wow.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

That certainly does a better job of colouring this individual with the Crayon labelled Bizarre.
Wow.
That's, ummmm... yeah, that passes from the realm of socially clueless to out of touch with reality.
Perhaps there really is a fiancee who she really did expect to propose?
Perhaps this guy is actually just a guy that doesn't know her and works behind the counter at the gas station on the corner next her house?
Wow.I think there was a real a guy. While she was really eccentric, I just can't imagine that she would invent an imaginary fiance. She's really weird, but I certainly don't think she's delusional. It's just the circumstances were highly unusual.

Those six years that she would spend her lunch hour shopping for clothes and toys for your as-yet-unconceived children used to weird me out a bit though. I always mentally pictured a fully-stocked nursery just sitting empty all that time. Waiting.