Charlton Heston - RIP

[Lamar Mundane]

I watched Planet of the Apes last night, too. Before my times, he was a great supporter of causes I agree with. Not quite so much after I became an adult. He was, however, an important actor who starred in a number of films that I loved as a youngster. He should be remembered by those on this board as an important figure in the rise of Science Fiction - Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, The Omega Man, etc.


RIP Charlton Heston.

http://www.cbsnews.com/

[Argent Towers]

Oh NO!

This is sad news. Heston was the man.

I guess they'll get his gun now.

ETA: Dammit, Sam. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462666) Great minds, huh.

[Tuckerfan]

There's a poster here who worked with Heston once. Spoke rather highly of him, as well. I'm just sorry that he had to spend the last years of his life suffering from Alzheimers.

[Duck Duck Goose]

My absolute favorite role of his: in Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet. Only a small part, but it shone. And you sat there thinking, "Why wasn't there more of this?"

[Siam Sam]

Oh NO!

This is sad news. Heston was the man.

I guess they'll get his gun now.

ETA: Dammit, Sam. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462666) Great minds, huh.
This thread beat mine by one minute.

As noted in mine, now they can pry that gun from his cold, dead hands.

[silenus]

Rest In Peace, Chuck.

You were always larger than life. May the Red Sea part for you one last time on the journey to the Promised Land.

[Dewey Finn]

I didn't agree with his later views on gun rights, but he was quite liberal until the 1980s and was active in the civil rights movement (including being with Dr. King at the 1963 March on Washington). So I'll remember him for that. (Also for some fun roles, like in Planet of the Apes.)

[Cardinal]

I was at Heston's house with my buddy to interview him in the mid 90s, for Japanese public tv.

He was plenty nice about the whole thing. We did it on the deck by his hot tub, above his tennis court.

He had a small statue of himself as some mountain man from a movie (sorry, don't remember which), a life sized painting of himself as Cardinal Richelieu from The Three Musketeers, and some other poster out there.

The only slight difficulty was that even at that point he didn't want to be filmed walking, so the fakey walk-and-talk shot was killed.

[Baker]

I'd rather not have the points I'll get now.

I once watched Ben-Hur on television with my grandfather. In one scene, where Judah is watching Christ on the cross, he doesn't speak at all, but you can see the emotions rippling across his face. My grandfather said "Now that's acting!" of that scene. It helps me rememeber Grandpa.

I liked some of his earlier roles, before he became a big star. He seemed to play characters who had anti-social tendencies, or were looking out for #1. He said, in regards to Ben-Hur, that he was originally offered the part of Messala, the bad guy. Now that would have been interesting!

DAMN! DAMN! DAMN! DAMN! DAMN!

[Argent Towers]

He was plenty nice about the whole thing. We did it on the deck by his hot tub, above his tennis court.

How was he?

[Sir Rhosis]

RIP.

Sir Rhosis

[eenerms]

Another old time great. RIP

[elfkin477]

Say it isn't so. I think I need to look for my favorite Space Ghost Coast To Coast ("Dam") and rewatch it. It's not wrong that his guest spot there was my favorite of his roles, is it?

[Sampiro]

Oops/dupes

[Sampiro]

He was one of the greats.

OTOH, his death was pretty much a formality as my understanding was his mind and body were already gone. At least his family can get on with their lives.

He was really the last of the Titans of the post-War era. I said while he was alive, in decent health, and on these boards that while he was no Olivier or Brando neither was he bad and I never thought he got the props he deserved as an actor. Some of his later roles were actually some of my favorite of his work- his Thomas More in A Man for All Seasons was a very different take from Paul Scofield's but I liked it (plus the version restored the Everyman narrator) and his Long John Silver was also very good. He had a good sense of humor as evidenced by his numerous parodies of himself on SNL and in Wayne's World and, as much as I diagree with many of his views, he seemed a real class act.

My favorite SNL/Heston moment was when he played God coming to collect the millions owed him by (or the life of) Oral Roberts when that scandal was high. The door opened and Heston, bathed in light and angelic chorus as several people go onto their knees, simply asks "You got the money?"

I also loved an interview of him on Whoopi Goldberg's brief talk-show many years ago when she admitted to a lifelong crush and an envy of Anne Baxter for her makeout scenes with him. Heston, then still fairly fit, grabbed her and did the same embrace/kiss with Moses dialogue thrown in before and after. Whoopi said later that it was one of her biggest but greatest surprises in her career.

RIP Chuck.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking of an extraordinarily poor-taste alternate title for this thread title (one involving a gun being...uh... moved) but in interest of decorum I'll contain the urge.

[cochrane]

He was a great actor. He will be missed.

His rant at the end of "Planet of the Apes" stays with me to this day.

"You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to Hell!"

[silenus]

I recommend "The Actor's Life" and "In The Arena." Wonderful insights into the craft and everyday life of a classic actor.

[Cicero]

I admired his work, though I don't think he was a truly great actor. However, I always miss the passing of someone of his stature. He and Widmark so close.

[DMark]

There's a poster here who worked with Heston once. Spoke rather highly of him, as well. I'm just sorry that he had to spend the last years of his life suffering from Alzheimers.

You might be thinking of me and what I have said in past threads.

Yes, I had the privilege, and I do mean privilege, to have worked briefly with Charlton Heston.

As an actor, he was the epitome of professional - unlike many lesser talents, Charlton Heston did not travel with some silly entourage - he arrived by himself and fully prepared; he knew his lines, knew his cues, had memorized the blocking and never complained about rehearsals. He always greeted cast members, and even us lowly crew, with his broad smile and a hearty hello. He was great with his fans back stage before and after the shows, signed all of their posters, pictures and memorabilia and even took a few minutes to chat with them.

It was no secret that I, like others in the crew, am a Gay, liberal Democrat and disagreed with almost all of his political views. Even though Charlton Heston was a man of strong convictions, he never showed any disrespect to anyone who disagreed with him. Simply put, the man had class.

I also remember that his wife, Lydia, was just as classy and down-to-earth as her husband and my deepest sympathies go out to her. I am sure these past few years of Alzheimer's have been devastating.

I will leave you with my favorite memory of Charlton Heston.

He was on stage rehearsing and I had to go put some supplies (I think it was to re-fill the water cooler) in his dressing room. There, on his dressing room table, was a beat up, old brown tackle box - just like you would see a fisherman take to the local lake. In it was his make-up - basic stuff like you would see in any theatrical dressing room. And next to the tackle box was a yellowed-with-age telegram in a small frame; It read (and I am paraphrasing), "Congratulations. You have the role of Ben Hur."

A simple memento, but one that showed me Charlton Heston never forgot his big break and he was proud to show the simple words that got him where he was today.

It is a sad day. Charlton Heston was a Hollywood legend who deserves every accolade.

[Cicero]

Just to put it straight. I agree with Dmark that Heston was a true professional and I greatly admire him. I would put him in the same class as Barbara Stanwyck- not hugely gifted but totally dedicated and a credit to their profession.

[Siam Sam]

I have to say I've never thought he was all that good of an actor. The wife and I watched El Cid some years ago, and we found him embarrassingly bad. Same with Ben-Hur.

[Manatee]

Get your hands off him, you damn dirty Death!


Damn. He starred in a bunch of different movies that were key parts of my childhood. As noted above, he may not always have been the best of actors, but he always struck me as a more believalble "Action Guy" than the pumped-up 80s action heroes.

[priapus]

I loved his work.He always seemed to enjoy himself.I got such a kick from those radio beer commercials he did years ago

[aldiboronti]

Ave atque vale, Chuck.

The giants are leaving the stage, one by one.

[KSO]

Rip.

[FriarTed]

God bless Mr. Heston. I'm glad he was spared the horribly prolonged decline of President Reagan.

His defense of gun owners' rights was a continuation of, not a break with, his early championing of civil rights.

[Guinastasia]

At least he's out of pain now-from alzheimers. He was pretty hot in Planet of the Apes, too. I was surprised to see it. (Yeah, I'm going to hell)




I guess they'll get his gun now.
[/URL] Great minds, huh.

Damn you for you stealing my line.

:mad:


I wonder if his ghost is thinking, "Get your hands off my corpse, you damned dirty undertakers!"

[jtgain]

I thought I was a quick thinker, but I can see the Dopers have taken the good lines that I though of:

1. About them getting his gun now
and
2. Damn Death! Get away from me!

The IQ here must be pretty high..

[Johnny L.A.]

Oh, my God!

[bubastis]

After his interview by Michael Moore in Bowling for Columbine, I immediatly lost all respect I had.... for Michael Moore.


Rest In Peace, you Damn Fine Actor.

[TV time]

My very first time on screen (about a second) was in Will Penny an early attempt of his to break out of the blockbuster package he was in. He was a class act. He was totally focused on his craft. He was not one of those that interacted with the crew or bits in the cast a lot, but he didn't shun them either. He would sign autographs when asked to, but most of the time he worked on his character and the tech aspects of the character.

I remember he was a good rider but tended to ride English and as a saddle tramp he couldn't really do that so he worked with a number of the stunt men and wranglers to get his riding style more sloppy and in character. For me, a dumb kid who was growing up on a ranch, it was really strange. Here was this larger-than-life monument of a man trying to do something that to me seemed so plain and common and so wrong for him.

[JRDelirious]

Another classy one gone, someone with whom you got that feeling that you were getting the real deal both in character and out of character.

[AuntiePam]

He's an icon at our house too -- Omega Man, Ten Commandments, Ben-Hur, Will Penny, Planet of the Apes -- movies we'd watch every time they came on.

But I didn't think he was sexy hot until I saw him in The War Lord, when he fell in love with Rosemary Forsyth, whose hair was the color of wheat. Or was it honey? Anyway, they spent a week or so in bed, necking, which was all you could do in the 60's. Hot!

[UntouchedTakeaway]

I kid you not - my NetFlix movie for this weekend was "Touch of Evil". I had just finished watching it - thinking (A) what a great movie, (B) Heston as a *Mexican*?!?!? and (C) Wow, he's about the only surviving cast member, when bingo - I saw the news on cnn.com

Another one of the Golden Agers gone. His iconic role for me was always Ben Hur.

VCNJ~

[BrainGlutton]

Let us eat Soylent Green in remembrance of him.

[Kythereia]

Let us eat Soylent Green in remembrance of him.

Well, now they can release a brand-new flavour in his honour...

(He was one of the all-time greats, may he rest in peace. :()

[Liberal]

As a liberal, I admired him for championing the rights of individuals over The State. I wouldn't say he was the greatest actor, but he certainly earned his creds.

[Wile E]

My mother's 80th birthday is in a couple days, I had a dream about her birthday last night. It's a bit eerie because once I gave her Charlton Heston for her birthday.

In my mother's and Mr. Heston's younger days my mother was totally in love with him. One year, and this was probably 30 years ago, Mr. Heston was going to be in town for a charity tennis game and there was to be a cocktail party afterwards where guests could meet him and the other players. So, my siblings and I all pitched in to get her tickets for her birthday. We did that mean thing where you wrap the item in a bunch of successive boxes so the recipient had to open several boxes to get their prize. She was getting really frustrated then finally got to the envelope and was so thrilled. She got all gussied up for the cocktail party and got to meet him and shake his hand. She couldn't stop smiling when she got home. It felt good to be a part of her finally getting to meet her idol.

Eventually she fell out of love with him because of politics but she didn't regret having met him. I agree he was no Olivier but he made a lot of memorable films and I will think of him fondly for his contribution to films and for making my mother so happy long ago. She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a couple years ago and has been in an assisted living center since then, I won't tell her about Mr. Heston.

[Liberal]

I've never read a more lovely story. Thanks, Wile E.

[Boyo Jim]

Let us eat Soylent Green in remembrance of him.

Hmmm... Soylent Chuck!

RIP. His life has embiggened us all.

[ralph124c]

'take your hand off of me, you damned filthy ape!"

[ivylass]

Such a shame. He struck me as a class act. I found The Ten Commandments embarrassingly scripted, but he still pulled it off.

RIP, sir. You will be missed.

[bonzer]

I'm hoping the funeral arrangements involve him being strapped to his horse in armour. So he can ride out into history ...

Wow, he's about the only surviving cast member, when bingo - I saw the news on cnn.com

Touch of Evil is one of my all time favourite films and until you posted this I hadn't thought of his passing in those terms. Damn, you're right.

[Wile E]

I've never read a more lovely story. Thanks, Wile E.

Thank you for the compliment. The memory of giving my mom those tickets was a happy time, all of us kids were together on it and it was the perfect gift and she loved it. Because of that connection I guess I will always have a bit of a soft spot for him.

[Tuckerfan]

Let us eat Soylent Green in remembrance of him.
:::Stops Hell Express Bus, leaps out, shows this sign (http://www.jeffchabotte.com/gallery/d/1083-1/heston.jpg) to BrainGlutton.:::

Come on! I've saved you a seat.

:::Turns and races back to the bus.:::

[CalMeacham]

And you sat there thinking, "Why wasn't there more of this?"


There is, but it's not well enough known. Heston did quite a bit of Shakespeare, and some of it made it onto film:

Julius Caesar (1950)
Julius Caesar (1970 -- and Marc Anthony both times!)
Anthony and Cleopatra (three times!)



He wanted to play Thomas More in A Man for All Seasons He didn't get the movie role, but he did play it later on for a made-for-TV version. He played Sherlock Holmes on stage (and later in the TV movie Crucifer of Blood, and his Watson was ---- Jeremy Brett!

[Tuckerfan]

NPR has a nice tribute to Heston. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89421208)When he brought one of those to the Kennedy Center in the 1980s, I interviewed him for a local paper. I'm guessing he knew — well into his Earthquake, Airport, Dynasty period — that any press he got from an alternative weekly was likely to be skeptical.

But he showed up without a public relations person, and sat for photos and answered questions. A few days later, a letter arrived — embossed stationery, typed note above his signature — saying he had thought the interview went well, and thanking me for my time. The first and last note of that sort I've ever gotten from an actor — and an indication, I suspect, of the sort of thoroughgoing professional he had always been.

[Sampiro]

Let us eat Soylent Green in remembrance of him.

That sounds good. What's it made of?

[Algher]

December 22, 1980

Dear Scouts:

Growing is a life-long process, one I'm not finished with yet. My time as a Boy Scout was an important way statino for me along this path.

This is the most improtant thing I've learned in my life: KEEP YOUR PROMISES.

Best wishes,

Charlton Heston

From the Hears of Heroes, by George W. Shaffer
(A collection of letters sent to the Boy Scouts of Troop 26, Tulsa OK)

[BrainGlutton]

great CH lines

'take your hand off of me, you damned filthy ape!"

Most memorable to me:

"No! NO! My king kneels to no man!"

A scene almost at the end of El Cid. If you've seen the movie up to that point I dare you not to choke up.

[Moirai]

I have the open letter that he published to his friends and fans after his diagnosis. It's on my computer at work so I'll try to post it tomorrow. It is quite touching.

[Moirai]

Found it here (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/News/08/09/heston.statement/index.html) .

:(

[Siam Sam]

Most memorable to me:

"No! NO! My king kneels to no man!"

A scene almost at the end of El Cid. If you've seen the movie up to that point I dare you not to choke up.
I didn't choke up, because that was a bad movie. The acting was all stilted and amateurish. But I do admit to enjoying Touch of Evil, which we saw for the first time just last year. He was really good in that.

[Pushkin]

I watched Planet of the Apes last night, too

It was just a week or so ago I saw all of Ben Hur for the first time, in two sittings.

His rant at the end of "Planet of the Apes" stays with me to this day.

"You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to Hell!"

I appreciated the Irish news reporting his death with an out take from Apes as well as the inevitable Ben Hur and Moses clips;

"Get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty apes!"

Excellent :D

[Annie-Xmas]

When I turned on the radio Sunday monring I heard "get your paws off me, you damned filthy ape." My thoughts were:

1. Troy McClure singing
2. The SDMB thread will have something about his prying his gun out of his cold dead hands (that clip was shown about a thousand times on the TV yesterday).
3. He was so good as Michelangelo in "The Agony & The Ectasy."

[Labdad]

As we celebrate the great body of work he left behind, let's not overlook Major Dundee (http://imdb.com/title/tt0059418/externalreviews) - Heston directed by Peckinpah. Just amazing, especially the extended version released in 2005.

RIP, Amos!

[BrainGlutton]

1. Troy McClure singing

"I hate every ape I see
"From chimpan-A to chimpanzeeeeee . . ."

[Elendil's Heir]

Thanks, EJsGirl, for the link to his open letter. Wonderful.

I haven't liked him much in recent years because of the whole NRA thing, and I agree he wasn't the greatest actor in the world, but I respected him as a civil rights supporter and a hardworking but down-to-earth actor. One of my favorite of his later appearances was as the head of Omega Sector (yes, I get the joke), Ah-nuld's supersecret spy agency, in True Lies. Best line: "I have to say, gentlemen, that what you've shown me so far isn't blowing my skirt up!"

[lieu]

He had a small statue of himself as some mountain man from a movie (sorry, don't remember which)...That would be The Mountain Men (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081187/) with Brian Keith.

Cool memories, DMark, thanks for sharing, especially about the telegrammed tackle box. That gave me chills.

I'm a little miffed that as I think back on all my memories of Heston, that Michael Moore trying to make him appear the fool creeps in there too along with all the outstanding, moving, iconic roles he played.

Thanks, Chuck, for decades of good stuff. Lordy but you were a pleasure to watch.

(Is there a man here bad enough to have messed with Will Penny?)

[Moirai]

(Is there a man here bad enough to have messed with Will Penny?)

Did Clint Eastwood name his character in Unforgiven "William Munny" as an homage to Heston's Will Penny?

[Omegaman]

Farewell to one of the good guys.

[Slithy Tove]

(Is there a man here bad enough to have messed with Will Penny?)

That would have been Donald Pleaseance, who was unable to defeat Michael Myers (who appearead to have a David Letterman mask on his face); but since Heston withstood being messed with by Michael Moore (who has a similar name and whose face has appeared on Letterman); it all comes around.

[Kizarvexius]

The curtain has closed on a true legend of the screen. Requiescat in pace, Chuck.

[Baker]

One of my favorite of his later appearances was as the head of Omega Sector (yes, I get the joke), Ah-nuld's supersecret spy agency, in True Lies. Best line: "I have to say, gentlemen, that what you've shown me so far isn't blowing my skirt up!"

Heston mentions that role in his autobiography. He said he'd asked why he was approached to do the role. The answer was that the producers thought he was about the only person they could get who could plausibly intimidate Arnold. And I noticed that for all the age he was showing, he'd kept his figure fairly trim.

[TV time]

As we celebrate the great body of work he left behind, let's not overlook Major Dundee (http://imdb.com/title/tt0059418/externalreviews) - Heston directed by Peckinpah. Just amazing, especially the extended version released in 2005.

RIP, Amos!I don't want to make this a hijack, but I loved James Coburn in the film as the one-armed scout and Jim Hutton and his little howitzer.

[BrainGlutton]

I didn't choke up, because that [El Cid] was a bad movie. The acting was all stilted and amateurish.

Well, yes it was, and the writing even worse, but that was Heston's forte. He could take total cornball material and deliver it in a total cornball way and make you believe it.

Nobody else in Hollywood could have pulled off The Ten Commandments!

[Siam Sam]

Well, yes it was, and the writing even worse, but that was Heston's forte. He could take total cornball material and deliver it in a total cornball way and make you believe it.
I didn't believe it. :(

But RIP, Chuck.

[Elendil's Heir]

Heston mentions that role in his autobiography. He said he'd asked why he was approached to do the role. The answer was that the producers thought he was about the only person they could get who could plausibly intimidate Arnold. And I noticed that for all the age he was showing, he'd kept his figure fairly trim.

Yup. With a snarl, a big scar and an eyepatch, he was good to go!

[Tuckerfan]

Whoa, just found this out from the BBC. When Heston was cast in Touch of Evil, the producers asked him if he'd have any problems working with Orson Welles. Heston's response, "Well, if you're going to have Orson in the film, why don't you have him direct it? After all, that's what he does." How many other actors would have done that? I wonder.

[Sampiro]

So, a couple of years ago Gore Vidal returned to the U.S. after selling his palatial residence in Italy.

Since then- Norman Mailer, former Vidal enemy: Dead. William F. Buckley, Jr., former Vidal enemy: Dead. Charlton Heston, former Vidal enemy: Dead. And I'm sure there are others.

If I were Ted Kennedy or Nancy Reagan, I'd start sending the fruity old basketcase monthly fruit baskets pronto.

[FriarTed]

If I were Ted Kennedy or Nancy Reagan, I'd start sending the fruity old basketcase monthly fruit baskets pronto.

How did Ted Kennedy piss him off?

[Sampiro]

How did Ted Kennedy piss him off?

By emerging from the same womb as his arch-nemesis Bobby Kennedy and former friend turned enemy JFK. (Not that emerging from Rose's womb is a real status symbol; though they hid it from the public, Rose Kennedy continued producing offspring well into her 90s, though with Joe Kennedy no longer around to fertilize them most of them were sterile Mexican worker Kennedys.)

[AuntiePam]

TCM's changed its schedule for this Friday:

(All times ET)
2:30 PM Private Screenings: Charlton Heston
3:30 PM The Buccaneer
5:30 PM The Hawaiians
8:00 PM Private Screenings: Charlton Heston
9:00 PM Ben-Hur
1:00 AM Khartoum
3:30 AM Major Dundee

[Elendil's Heir]

...Rose Kennedy continued producing offspring well into her 90s, though with Joe Kennedy no longer around to fertilize them most of them were sterile Mexican worker Kennedys.)

Y'know, they didn't mention that at all when I visited the JFK Presidential Library in Boston a few years back. Jeez, what a ripoff!

[Sampiro]

Y'know, they didn't mention that at all when I visited the JFK Presidential Library in Boston a few years back. Jeez, what a ripoff!

Who did you think those gardeners with the strange ("si señor, you can pock the cah in the yod...") accents were? They were Rose's later pupae.

[Boyo Jim]

Who did you think those gardeners with the strange ("si señor, you can pock the cah in the yod...") accents were? They were Rose's later pupae.

So is Ted the new Queen?

[FriarTed]

OK, so how did JFK & RFK piss off Vidal?

And WHERE was Vidal on November 22, 1963?

[Siam Sam]

OK, so how did JFK & RFK piss off Vidal?

And WHERE was Vidal on November 22, 1963?
I vaguely recall Vidal's mother being married for a spell to Jackie Kennedy's stepfather. Wikipedia confirms this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gore_Vidal). Must be wrapped up in that somehow.

[astorian]

Whoa, just found this out from the BBC. When Heston was cast in Touch of Evil, the producers asked him if he'd have any problems working with Orson Welles. Heston's response, "Well, if you're going to have Orson in the film, why don't you have him direct it? After all, that's what he does." How many other actors would have done that? I wonder.


Heston admired Welles tremendously, but always shook his head in amazement at Welles' knack for self-destruction. The way he put it was, "Orson wouldn't have a problem if he were a painter or a novelist. But film is one of the art forms where the raw materials are too expensive for the artist to buy for himself. He had to go, hat in hand, to the money men, the business people, and he HATED that. He reckoned that they had no talent, that they couldn't understand his craft, and he treated them with utter disdain and contempt." And Heston couldn't understand that at all. He'd seen how charming and magnanimous Welles could be to actors, to stage crews, even to busboys and waiters... and he could never understand why Welles refused to show just a LITTLE of that charm to people he was going to hit up for millions of dollars.

Interestingly, Heston worked on the stage several times with Vanessa Redgrave, and they seem to have thought the world of each other, personally and professionally, despite being as opposite politically as two people could be.

[Sampiro]

OK, so how did JFK & RFK piss off Vidal?

As Siam Sam mentions, Vidal and Jackie are quasi-related by marriage; both were the children of relatively penniless but aristocratic divorced mothers who married millionaire Hugh Auchincloss and both had a sort of "outsider looking in" upbringing on the rim of great wealth, and their relationship gained him access to Camelot. He and JFK (according to Gore) were good friends for a time in the late 50s when Gore was canvasing for JFK and entertaining his own political aspirations (he ran for Congress a couple of times but never won election).
At some point there was a falling out between Gore and JFK. Gore is a self-admitted lush and in his memoir he tells stories about being present when Tennessee Williams drunkenly made suggestive talk about and to JFK at a White House function (in his memoir Gore always shines of course) and his all around snootiness and bitchiness probably had something to do with any falling out. Anyway, it reached climax when "something happened" at a 1961 dinner party where Gore and Bobby almost came to a fight. There are many versions, but this barebones one is from an obituary of George Plimpton:

[Plimpton] was at the 1961 White House party where Gore Vidal squared off with Bobby Kennedy. Removing the novelist's hand from Jackie Kennedy's back, Kennedy said: "Fuck off, buddy boy." Vidal replied: "You fuck off, too." Despite not having heard this repartee, Plimpton, who loved gossip, gave an account of it to Truman Capote, who embellished the scene in a way that humiliated Vidal - and resulted in an ill-tempered lawsuit between the two men.

JFK of course backed RFK (though I'm guessing it wasn't that huge a deal to him- by some accounts he actually was more upset by the Bay of Pigs than by losing Gore Vidal's sweet and gentle friendship) and Gore was sent to dwell in the land east of Camelot (i.e. Italy).

Bringing it back to Heston, Vidal's feud with him came over the supposed gay subtext of Ben Hur. Vidal is known to have worked on the screenplay to the movie, though exactly how much he wrote is a matter of serious disagreement, and claims to have made a not-for-film backstory in which Messala and Ben Hur former teen lovers with Messala (Stephen Boyd) wanting to renew the affair as adults and Judah spurning him. Per Vidal, Boyd was in on the tweak and agreed that for the first time the plot made sense, but all were informed never to inform Heston, who in later years blasted Vidal's account in interviews and his autobio. (Vidal is not listed in the credits of Ben Hur and many, including Heston, claim he contributed very little if anything that was actually used in the script.)

Vidal is notoriously litigious and sued Capote and Mailer and others who slammed his writing or his accuracy. The fact he never sued Heston probably has much to do with the fact that Vidal was used to picking on men like Capote (who was always overspending himself in an attempt to keep up with the jet-set) and Mailer (who had 182 ex-wives, children, young girlfriends, and agents to support) and non-celebrity journalists and reviewers (he's sued them to for various reasons), Heston was very rich and very well liked and could easily have afforded both attorney's fees and aggravation of a lawsuit and his reputation would not have suffered in the least, but I think it also lends a bit of credence to Chuck's version of the story. I think Vidal probably told his own gay version (though he has never admitted he's gay- he's one of those bisexuals who just doesn't like sex with women) so often that he believes it but its truth content is probably blown out of all proportion.



And WHERE was Vidal on November 22, 1963?

Probably in a bar getting drunk while waiting for a meeting with his lawyer to sue a critic who described one of his utterly lifeless and bitchy novels bitchy and utterly lifeless.

[Slithy Tove]

If anyone wants the factual answer, he was at the movies in Italy watching David and Lisa (http://imdb.com/title/tt0055892/) with Howard Austen.

(The nits we pick here sometimes.)

[Sampiro]

If anyone wants the factual answer, he was at the movies in Italy watching David and Lisa (http://imdb.com/title/tt0055892/) with Howard Austen.

(The nits we pick here sometimes.)

You're a little bit scary, Slithy Tove. ;)