Soda-pop and Teeth

[Pixilated]

The SO and I have been debating the drink limitations for the children - I come from a more strict background when it comes to sodas and sugary drinks.

When raising my children, they were very seldom alloted a soda and even then, it was in moderation (small child-size drinks) AND only the lighter colored ones such as Sprite was allowed (I encouraged iced tea, lemonaide, milk, and water). The SO allows his children up to 2 sodas a day of any kind (though recently I have gotten him to agree to the lighter sodas).

I am willing to compromise to 1 light colored soda a day but SO doesnt have the buy-in of the effects soda has on teeth. I explained to him that the acid and sugar contained in soda is very hard on teeth - especially on little ones who arent very good about brushing and flossing. I also let him know that darker colored sodas - even diets - are usually worse than ones such as Sprite per my dentist, and also my ex's sister who recently graduated dental school.

Is there any truth to this tale?

What are the breakdowns of soda vs juice vs koolaid vs tea vs coffee vs milk, etc?

What is an realistic amount to allow a child per day/week?

*children are of ages 16, 13, 9 and do not have the most disciplined dental practices (do not always brush & rarely floss)

[HongKongFooey]

I read this http://www.doctorspiller.com/Tooth_Decay.htm when my wife and I were wondering about the effects of milk on our daughters' teeth. If you search for sugar and caries in Google you'll find many more useful sites.

[chorpler]

Yeah, according to Dr. Spiller, it's pretty much just the sugar that causes tooth decay -- the acids in soda are water soluble and your saliva washes them right off your teeth, but sugar causes sticky plaque that results in enamel dissolving.

Juice and soda, therefore, are bad for your teeth. Diet soda isn't.

[Pixilated]

So those sodas that contain both phosphoric and carbolic acid as well as sugar does not do any more damage than those w/out?

I read WebMD (http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20030902/soda-rots-kids-teeth) articles on the subject and a few others here and there, but I am interested in statistics, and proof that acids do or do not contribute to the breakdown of enamal and if sodas containing such acids put a person at even a higher risk of cavities.

[Dewey Finn]

When raising my children, they were very seldom alloted a soda and even then, it was in moderation (small child-size drinks) AND only the lighter colored ones such as Sprite was allowed (I encouraged iced tea, lemonaide, milk, and water). The SO allows his children up to 2 sodas a day of any kind (though recently I have gotten him to agree to the lighter sodas).
Both Coca-Cola and Sprite have caramel color as the third ingredient, so I think the big difference is the amount. I think you'd be better off drinking diet soda than the regular versions of either light or dark sodas. But a recent study links the consumption of diet soda to the development of "metabolic syndrome," so there are even dangers there.

[Cisco]

I read somewhere that root beer is actually the soda which is easiest on your teeth. I don't know how that makes sense considering that they're all basically sugar, water, artificial colors, and artificial flavors, but there you go.

I've read in lots and lots of places that the color of the soda is irrelevant to tooth decay, though. It's a myth.

[MissGypsy]

Does the artifical coloring in sodas stain teeth, the way tea and coffee can?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Does the artifical coloring in sodas stain teeth, the way tea and coffee can?
I would assume so, but probably not as much. IANAD, though.

As for the OP, your children are older than mt little boys aged 6 and 2, but we hardly ever let them drink pop, as they already drink an enormous amount of apple and orange juice and don't require any extra sugar in their diet!

[Harmonious Discord]

My uncle who specializes in children's teeth explained it to me. It won't matter how much sugar they consume, if it has sugar. The acid will be produced from the bacteria. every time they consume sugar it starts the cycle over. What you have to do is to limit the number of times they consume it and to a short period. No sucking soda for an hour. It's mostly the sugar feeding the bacteria, and not the acidity of the drink that is the problem. Notice the acid does do some damage to the enamel all by it's self. Try to have them brush afterward if they can.

[ZipperJJ]

Isn't there a grade school science demonstration that involves soaking an egg (hard boiled, I believe) in cola for...a week? A few days? It's supposed to show the effects of soda on your tooth enamel since egg shell is sort of like enamel.

Perhaps you and the SO should do an experiment where you soak hard-boiled eggs in cola, clear soda, Kool Aid and milk for a few days, then see what they look like afterwards and what happens when you brush them.

Just cuz it sounds cool.

[Risha]

And of course (and not that I don't think it's healthier to keep children from drinking soda of any sort), I think that it's worth noting that these are relative risks. I drink and have always drunk lots of soda, had less than good brushing habits as a child, and only this past year went to the dentist for a checkup and cleaning for the first time in a decade. I've never had a cavity.

[sunacres]

I drink and have always drunk lots of soda, had less than good brushing habits as a child, and only this past year went to the dentist for a checkup and cleaning for the first time in a decade. I've never had a cavity.I have a sister-in-law who claims that sincer her 90-year-old aunt has been a lifelong smoker and has never contracted cancer, that proves smoking doesn't cause cancer.

Every summer I spend two weeks in rural El Salvador with a team of medical researchers. We're studying the dental health of the children in the remote parts of the countryside. Over the last 10 years something really spectacularly bad has happened and most children have been losing their baby teeth before they reach 5 years of age.

After three years of study the culprit has become quite clear: the streams have become so polluted by unregulated industry that they are undrinkable. The cheapest alternative is, you guessed it, Coke. Cheaper than milk, cheaper than bottled water. Mothers have been putting it in baby bottles.

My teen children were with me a couple of summers ago and it cured them of the soda habit immediately. At least some good has come of this disaster.

[Risha]

I have a sister-in-law who claims that sincer her 90-year-old aunt has been a lifelong smoker and has never contracted cancer, that proves smoking doesn't cause cancer.I never said that soda isn't bad for teeth on average (which is why I added the part about it being healthier that the children not start). What I AM saying is that drinking soda is not a guarantee of bad dental health.

[Pixilated]

Here's what I am thinking after reading more info on soda/sugar effects on teeth as well as acid:

Kids want a soda that bad, they can drink diet - preferrably rootbeer or cream soda or even gingerale, but I'm willing to compromise to 2 cans a day on weekends/summers. I always told my own kids that when they start paying for their own dental bill & their own food, then they can have whatever they want. I think that's fair.

I didnt start drinking soda regularly until the 80's and the only options I was allowed (unless I bought my own and hid it) was diet. I sure as hell didnt die from it and I preferred diet to reg for a long long time... I actually miss it. Unfortunately, my stomach will not tolerate the artificial sweetners in diet sodas & can only handle an occassional one.

But, we'll see what the SO has to say, maybe some of those tooth-decay pictures will be enough to encourage him to agree to one can/day or maybe even diet soda only.

[DrDeth]

Dark means nothing, really- other than the fact many darker sodas have caffiene, which you may not want your kids getting into.

Sodas aren't good for the teeth. But neither are fruit juices- some of which also have acids. I have known some kids that lived on "juice boxes" and had serious dental problems.

Some sodas in moderation should be OK. Harmonious Discord's post is pretty well spot on. Sugar-free gum chewed after any sugar should help. Brushing would be better, but we know that ain't gonna work. :D

[F. U. Shakespeare]

A colleague of mine had a son in his mid teens who had lots of cavities. His problem, according to his dentist, was 'nursing' sodas: sipping one all day, which supposedly does more harm downing them quickly.

[Pixilated]

A colleague of mine had a son in his mid teens who had lots of cavities. His problem, according to his dentist, was 'nursing' sodas: sipping one all day, which supposedly does more harm downing them quickly.


I have also heard this. I am a sipper - it takes me all day to drink a soda, sometimes 2 days. My teeth are not the best and never have been. Now that I'm an adult and decided that I really dont like the dentist, I brush a couple of times a day but still struggle with the flossing. I just told the SO I was considering switching to dt rootbeer & cream soda and getting rid of the dr pepper addiction. Again, not sure how I will be able to handle the diet but if it doesnt work out I can always go to reg rootbeer/cream soda.

SO's 13yr old indicated he liked diet soda of any kind, so I am willing to adjust to 2cans/day if it's diet (and preferrably low in caffeine).

[amarinth]

From the other side of the anecdotes - new dentists ask me whether or not I'm bulemic. The enamel is worn away, most likely from soda.

I had perfect teeth until I left home and started drinking soda all the time. Then came cavities for the first time and the dental pain - that I noticed but couldn't figure out a reason for until one dentist asked whether I was bulemic (no) and then whether I drank soda (yes). According to that dentist, the phosphoric acid was worse than citric acid and so I stopped drinking stuff with phosphoric acid in it and cut way back on the citric. And my teeth stopped hurting all the time.

[Cerowyn]

Tooth decay from soft drinks is entirely due to sugar content. Acid content is irrelevant.

Tropicana orange juice (http://www.keepingittwisted.com/TRP_ProductInformation/Detail.cfm?ProductID=21) has 22 grams of sugar in 240 mL
7UP (http://www.7up.com/text/7upnutrition.aspx) has 25 grams of sugar in 240 mL
American Coca Cola Classic (http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/mail/goodanswer/soft_drink_nutrition.pdf) has 27 grams of carbohydrates (which we may presume to be sugar, since other forms of carbs are unlikely) in 240 mL
Pepsi Cola (http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/pepsi-pepsi-cola-drink-553.htm) also has 27 grams of sugar per 240 mL
Ocean Spray Cranberry Cocktail (http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/item.php?item_id=113074&size=3) has 33.8 grams of sugar per 243 mL

From a tooth decay potential perspective, there's very little difference between fruit juice and plain ol' soda.

[Green Cymbeline]

Not sure if this is really relevant, but I would suggest Kool-Aid made with Splenda. Tastes great and has no calories or caffeine. And is a lot cheaper than juice or soda.

[chorpler]

Not sure if this is really relevant, but I would suggest Kool-Aid made with Splenda. Tastes great and has no calories or caffeine. And is a lot cheaper than juice or soda.

The down side is that any Splenda you can buy in the store is mostly made of sugar, and still causes tooth decay, just not quite as much as pure sugar. This is because the artificial sweeteners we use (aspartame, acesulfame, sucralose) are all hundreds of times sweeter than sugar, and so they mix it with a bulking agent to make it more convenient to use in amounts we're familiar with. Unfortunately, they always use sugar (dextrose, the right-handed version of glucose) and maltodextrin, another simple carbohydrate, as the bulking agent. So the Splenda you buy at the grocery stores does have calories and does cause tooth decay because most of its mass is just sugar. I consider it a massive scam.

You can buy liquid Splenda that uses water as a "bulking agent" instead of sugar, but only online and only at certain times (at least, last time I checked).

[iwakura43]

Unfortunately, they always use sugar (dextrose, the right-handed version of glucose) and maltodextrin, another simple carbohydrate, as the bulking agent. So the Splenda you buy at the grocery stores does have calories and does cause tooth decay because most of its mass is just sugar. I consider it a massive scam.

Dextrose and maltodextrin are not casually referred to as "sugar," in my experience. True, they may technically be "sugars," but anyone referring plainly to "sugar" in a nutritional context is going to mean sucrose, or, maybe, fructose.

Now, the package of Splenda I have in my cabinet lists carbohydrates as being < 1 g, but the serving size is listed as .5 g, which I find disingenuous. Does anyone know the actual 'nutritional facts' of Splenda?

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

I read somewhere that root beer is actually the soda which is easiest on your teeth. I don't know how that makes sense considering that they're all basically sugar, water, artificial colors, and artificial flavors, but there you go.
.

I came to post this- my brother -in-law is dentist who love root beer and found this article to justify rootbeer as his soda indulgence!

(of course you still gotta brush!)

[chorpler]

Dextrose and maltodextrin are not casually referred to as "sugar," in my experience. True, they may technically be "sugars," but anyone referring plainly to "sugar" in a nutritional context is going to mean sucrose, or, maybe, fructose.

I see what you're getting at, but still, they are sugars, or at least dextrose is -- it's just the dextro isomer of glucose, and everybody knows that glucose is a sugar. Maltodextrin may not be a sugar (I can't tell for sure), but it's a simple carbohydrate that evidently is nearly as good at fueling bacteria in your mouth as regular table sugar is.

Hence, from a dental perspective, the bags of Splenda you buy at the store are almost as bad for your teeth as regular sugar, and they do contain calories.

Now, the package of Splenda I have in my cabinet lists carbohydrates as being < 1 g, but the serving size is listed as .5 g, which I find disingenuous. Does anyone know the actual 'nutritional facts' of Splenda?

We had a thread on this a while back -- basically, as long as the amount per serving size is small enough, they can claim it's zero, at least in the US. So since the serving size is so small, because the sucralose adds enough sweetness that the stuff in the bag can be used in a small serving, Splenda can claim it's "zero calorie" while basically being a bag of sweetened sugar.

I was shocked and angered when I realized this -- I had always just assumed that because I was sweetening my Kool-Aid-type drinks with Splenda or Nutrasweet, I wasn't getting any sugar and there weren't any dental problems to worry about. After all, without any calories, there couldn't be any sugar to fuel cavity production, right? Sadly, that turned out to be a huge mistake.

[Hokkaido Brit]

I don't know why children should have sodas or juice at all. Our house has barley tea (no sugar in it) , water or milk available. Once a week I buy a litre of vegetable/fruit juice and when it's gone, it's gone.

The kids do get sodas or canned drinks from machines when we go out, so maybe one or two a week.

We are not draconian about sugar or healthy stuff, it is just that I am too tight to pay for such rubbishy drinks on a regular basis!

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Having grown up on diet Coke and now only rarely drink it, I'm also trying to limit the sodas my daughter drinks. I'm a big fan of sparkling water and my daughter loves lemons, so I'm thrilled if she drinks that instead of sugary drinks, including juice. She won't drink plain water, getting her to drink a glass of milk is like pulling teeth (oh, a pun!), but she does like juice. Damned if I can find juices that don't cost a fortune and aren't full of sugar, though. You'd think there's enough natural sugar in fruit that they wouldn't feel the need to add high fructose corn syrup to them. A pox on American palates!

[TimeWinder]

...So since the serving size is so small, because the sucralose adds enough sweetness that the stuff in the bag can be used in a small serving, Splenda can claim it's "zero calorie" while basically being a bag of sweetened sugar.

There can't be that many calories in Splenda. There's a lemonade recipe on the side of the bag that calls for a cup of Splenda, and a cup of lemon juice, and has a total of 160 calories. The lemon juice is 80 of those, so that leaves 80 for a cup of Splenda (the other ingredients are non-caloric).

The apple pie recipe on the box gives me about 55 calories for a cup of Splenda, but the error bars are much larger because it calls for things like "5 apples." So I'm happy to go with the 80 calories per cup number, or 5 calories per tablespoon.

Table sugar is slightly more than 750 calories per cup, and 45 per tablespoon, so saying that Splenda is basically "sweetened sugar" is disingenuous -- it's only slightly more than 10% of the calories of sugar by volume.

[chorpler]

There can't be that many calories in Splenda. There's a lemonade recipe on the side of the bag that calls for a cup of Splenda, and a cup of lemon juice, and has a total of 160 calories. The lemon juice is 80 of those, so that leaves 80 for a cup of Splenda (the other ingredients are non-caloric).

The apple pie recipe on the box gives me about 55 calories for a cup of Splenda, but the error bars are much larger because it calls for things like "5 apples." So I'm happy to go with the 80 calories per cup number, or 5 calories per tablespoon.

Table sugar is slightly more than 750 calories per cup, and 45 per tablespoon, so saying that Splenda is basically "sweetened sugar" is disingenuous -- it's only slightly more than 10% of the calories of sugar by volume.

But a cup of Splenda weighs a lot less than a cup of sugar. You're not comparing equal masses. It's not a bag of sweetened TABLE sugar, but yes, it's pretty much sweetened sugar.

[TimeWinder]

But a cup of Splenda weighs a lot less than a cup of sugar. You're not comparing equal masses. It's not a bag of sweetened TABLE sugar, but yes, it's pretty much sweetened sugar.

Yes...but Splenda's a table sugar replacement, and you replace by volume, not weight. When used for it's intended use, it's much, much, much, lower calorically than the sugar it replaces -- yes, it may technically be sweetened "sugar," but you're claiming that it's "a massive scam," which it clearly isn't -- it does exactly what it says it does.

Sure, we could argue about equal-weight amounts, but that's not a reasonable use; a cup of sugar would take about eight large bags of Splenda to replace -- no one's going to use it that way (at least not more than once).

[chorpler]

Yes...but Splenda's a table sugar replacement, and you replace by volume, not weight. When used for it's intended use, it's much, much, much, lower calorically than the sugar it replaces -- yes, it may technically be sweetened "sugar," but you're claiming that it's "a massive scam," which it clearly isn't -- it does exactly what it says it does.

From my perspective, it clearly IS a massive scam -- but I'm coming at it from a different angle than you.

They claim on the nutritional label that Splenda (and NutraSweet) has zero calories, which it absolutely doesn't. Yes, it's fine for calorie reduction, since, as I said, it's sweetened sugar, so you end up using a lot less of it. But my primary interest with artificial sweeteners is for dental health, not calorie reduction. From a dental health perspective, it's better than regular table sugar, but the fact that the vast majority of what you're putting in your food or drink is just sugar means that it's still bad for your teeth -- much more so than plain aspartame or sucralose would be.

But when you see "zero calories" listed on the nutrition label, the natural assumption (before you learn about the "If the serving size is low enough they can round down to zero" scam) is that it has no sugar in it. While that may be true for something like diet soda that is made with Splenda or NutraSweet, it's not true for the Splenda or NutraSweet that you buy in the store to make your own stuff with.

[Cerowyn]

Damned if I can find juices that don't cost a fortune and aren't full of sugar, though. You'd think there's enough natural sugar in fruit that they wouldn't feel the need to add high fructose corn syrup to them. A pox on American palates!And if you look at my post above, you'll see that even no-sugar-added orange juice has more than 80% of the sugar of Coke or Pepsi.

[Athena]

Is it just me, or does 2 cans/day of soda each and every day seem like an enormous amount? Especially if it's normal soda - that's a TON of sugar! I guess it's better if it's diet, but still, two cans seems excessive to me. I could see it on occasion, or maybe even once a week, but every single day? There's gotta be better things you can put in your body, and I'm hardly a bleeding heart overly nutritious kinda person.

Maybe I'm weird, but if I found myself drinking two cans of soda (diet or normal) a day, I'd be worried, much less if it were a kid drinking that much soda.

[Solfy]

Isn't there a grade school science demonstration that involves soaking an egg (hard boiled, I believe) in cola for...a week? A few days? It's supposed to show the effects of soda on your tooth enamel since egg shell is sort of like enamel.

Perhaps you and the SO should do an experiment where you soak hard-boiled eggs in cola, clear soda, Kool Aid and milk for a few days, then see what they look like afterwards and what happens when you brush them.

Just cuz it sounds cool.

Better yet, I've seen elementary school science projects where actual teeth were soaked in orange juice, Coke, Sprite, and coffee for several weeks. (the students had a dental connection and were able to get extracted teeth for the experiment)
You'd be surprised at how little color change was evident. IIRC, coffee was the worst, and Coke was only slightly worse than Sprite. None of them were terribly dark, although the coffee teeth were rather ugly. This experiment naturally eliminates the bacteria/sugar/acid cycle (with the expection of acids normally present in the beverages themselves).
I don't recommend children keep coffee in their mouths for weeks.

I think if you're seriously concerned about staining or decay, the easiest thing would be to require them to brush after consuming sodas. No exceptions.

In my childhood home there was no extra money for pop. (seriously - the budget was really tight) Therefore, I didn't drink pop. If you're having troubling limiting sodas, even easier than fighting the kids about it is to not keep any around.

[Philster]

If you are going to worry about what is damaging their teeth, you might as play both sides and concern yourself with what they do to actively protect them against everything they eat, because sugars are necessary life-sustaining ingredients. Fat, proteins and sugars are part of every diet. Make sure the water in your area is fluoridated and supplement that with a good fluoride rinse when they brush.

MY dentist told me that I was overlooking the damage that is caused by all the foods that I consume and underestimating the power of fluoride, which can actually be the key component in all this.

[WhyNot]

Is it just me, or does 2 cans/day of soda each and every day seem like an enormous amount?
No, you're not the only one. We allow up to 3 6 ounce servings of juice or pop per week, and it's rare for it to get up to 3. General offerings are water or...water. Occasionally she'll ask for milk, and I'll give it to her, but I don't offer it.

I myself drink quite a bit of Splenda sweetened drinks (Crystal Light, etc.), which have 5 calories per 8 ounce serving. I find the sweet satisfies my sweet cravings without a lot of calories. But honestly, I'm a bit paranoid about artificial sweeteners and growing brains and bodies*, so it's pretty unusual for me to allow the preschooler one of those. It's been known to happen, but it's pretty rare.


*No scientific reason, just a general paranoia and cynicism.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

And if you look at my post above, you'll see that even no-sugar-added orange juice has more than 80% of the sugar of Coke or Pepsi.
I know! But even still, not being all that schooled in chemistry or biology, I operate under the impression that naturally occurring fructose (and glucose) is way less bad for you than processed high fructose corn syrup even in lower quantities.

Of course, I also operate under the moderation-is-key theory, but given a choice between serving my daughter a flavored and sugared soda, an orange, or orange juice, I'd choose the orange (before the orange juice) over the soda nearly every time.

We eat a lot of processed food for a variety of reasons, but any opportunity I have to give (and teach) her better nutritional choices, I take. Our current disagreement is over white bread vs. whole grain bread. Don't get me started with that! ;)

[Anne Neville]

Perhaps you and the SO should do an experiment where you soak hard-boiled eggs in cola, clear soda, Kool Aid and milk for a few days, then see what they look like afterwards and what happens when you brush them.

Just cuz it sounds cool.

Be careful with the milk, though. My sister did this science project with nails. I don't remember which liquid was hardest on the nail, but I do remember how utterly revolting the milk got after a few days or weeks.

[Pixilated]

Is it just me, or does 2 cans/day of soda each and every day seem like an enormous amount?

In all honesty, yes, to me this is too much and expensive. I s'pose I could put my foot down and refuse to buy soda and leave it to the SO to buy it if he feels his kids need it.
On the other hand, this might come across as being petty. I drink soda, and so does the SO so i am thinking that perhaps the both of us may look at it with the thought of "we drink it so how can we tell them they are not allowed to?" And, irl, the SO's son called me on that one and my immediate response was to defend my choices. He wanted to know why he was only allowed one, where as I drink 2/day - he has to drink Sprite & I get to drink Dr Pepper (he loves dr pepper). My response was to let him know that I buy my own drinks & pay for my own doctor/dentist bills and when he can do the same he can decide what he wants to eat and drink.

Fortunately, <his> kids do not have a weight issues. When my kids were younger, I was concerned with their weight because of my family background. This, along with the fact that I could not afford to supply everyone with sodas, was the reason the kids had access to milk, tea, & water. Sometimes juice - but the juice was limited and same aspect of when it's gone it's gone. I hated kool-aide so the kids didnt have access unless they were at their dad's. They also did not have many dental issues even though I was not able to make sure they brushed their teeth on a regular basis. I am pretty certain that they were not disciplined in this field of hygiene so I am fortunate that they (and myself) got off the hook with major dental work and bills.

Blending families and rules is a challenge, even moreso when you're looking at 3 households - mine, his, and his kids' mom (luckily my ex is out of the equation).
I am more strict where as the SO isn't in comparison (and bless his heart for being willing to compromise & adopt some of my set rules). We also make sure the kids are brushing their teeth - but we can only do this when they are here. If the SO decided for whatever reason to cut out soda altogether or limit it to 1-2 a week, based on all the information of what it does to teeth - I'm for it.

[DrDeth]

I know! But even still, not being all that schooled in chemistry or biology, I operate under the impression that naturally occurring fructose (and glucose) is way less bad for you than processed high fructose corn syrup even in lower quantities.

Of course, I also operate under the moderation-is-key theory, but given a choice between serving my daughter a flavored and sugared soda, an orange, or orange juice, I'd choose the orange (before the orange juice) over the soda nearly every time.)

There is little difference between "naturally occurring fructose" and the fructose you get in HFCS. OJ is just sugar water with Vit C, unless you include the pulp in which case you get some nice fiber, etc.

But you are right about the moderation.

Whole grain bread has a lot more fiber than most white bread. However, if the kids hate whole wheat, then the "Iron Kids" type of white bread with added fiber and such is a good compromise.

[Athena]

If the SO decided for whatever reason to cut out soda altogether or limit it to 1-2 a week, based on all the information of what it does to teeth - I'm for it.

Seems to me that this is the right answer to the problem - have the whole family cut down on soda.

However, I can sympathize with what you say about a blended family. Heck, in my house, it's only me and the SO and sometimes it seems impossible to come to an agreement on anything.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

There is little difference between "naturally occurring fructose" and the fructose you get in HFCS. OJ is just sugar water with Vit C, unless you include the pulp in which case you get some nice fiber, etc.
Right, why get empty calories and carbs from a soda when you can get calories, carbs, vitamins, and fiber from a juice?

Okay, maybe I need a little more ignorance fighting wrt the chemistry of sugars, but my understanding is that HFCS is actually a combination of fructose and glucose, which in excessive amounts can contribute to diabetes And that your body readily converts fructose into the glucose that it needs, so excess glucose can kick insulin production into overdrive. As I said, what I think I know may not actually be correct, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not actually a diabetic, but I've seen the damage it can wreak in others and it does concern me.

And I realize this has nothing to do with teeth, but just another reason to limit soda consumption by children. Sorry for the hijack.

[WhyNot]

Right, why get empty calories and carbs from a soda when you can get calories, carbs, vitamins, and fiber from a juice?
Even the Vitamin C is dubious, unless you're squeezing it fresh. Vitamin C degrades over time, and not very much time, even in frozen concentrates. Here's one study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T8J-4G4XBHM-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=4cdc5778e6146fddd518fe127a372ee8), full of big sciencey words, which boils down, best I can tell to, "yep, Vitamin C breaks down, sure does, no matter how cold we keep it." So while it might have had 100% or more of your PVD for Vit C when they packed it, it probably has less than 20% by the time you drink it.

Floridajuice.com (http://www.floridajuice.com/nutrition_orange_facts.php) lists no fiber at all in the average orange juice. Tropicana's new Pure Premium Essentials Fiber orange juice adds in sawdust to get you up to 3 grams of fiber (http://www.tropicana.com/TRP_FAQ/Health.cfm) - the same as the fiber in one orange.

Our pediatrician's opinion is simple: "Juice is just as bad as pop. Limit both of them the same." Enjoy the juice in really moderate moderation, but it should be an adjunct to a healthy diet, not part of it. We tell our kids, of candy and juice/pop: "Food is what you eat when you're hungry, and water's what you drink when you're thirsty. Candy, pop and juice are special treats you have sometimes because they taste good, not because you're hungry."

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Thanks for the info, WhyNot. I stand corrected. I had thought the pulp added dietary fiber, but apparently not. Our favorite juices in this household are the Bolthouse Farms Green Goodness and Vanilla Chai. They are on the expensive side, so they are generally treated as a treat, but they are a much healthier choice for a treat than soda or juices that aren't much more than water+HFCS+apple/grape juice. Juice shopping is so hard on a parent. Kids don't 'get' labels, nor do they care much.

[WhyNot]

Our favorite juices in this household are the Bolthouse Farms Green Goodness....
Oh, nom-nom-nom! That's one of my favorite juice blends EVAH! It's like liquidey green crack, that stuff is! (And I'm not normally a fan of the green drink group.) :p

[WarmNPrickly]

Okay, maybe I need a little more ignorance fighting wrt the chemistry of sugars, but my understanding is that HFCS is actually a combination of fructose and glucose, which in excessive amounts can contribute to diabetes

Sucrose (table sugar) is also a combination of fructose and glucose. I'm not sure about the metabolism differences though.

[neutron star]

Is it just me, or does 2 cans/day of soda each and every day seem like an enormous amount?Wow, seriously? I read the first half of that sentence and guessed that you were going to say that two cans wasn't very much at all!

When I was a kid, I drank at the very least, two 32oz. Big Gulps a day. My parents didn't bother trying to limit my intake.

I paid for it, too. Every time I'd get a new dentist, the first thing he'd say upon looking at my teeth was "You sure drink a lot of Coke, don't you?"

When I was 12, a dentist told me "If you keep this up, you'll have dentures by the time you're 21." Naturally, I knew better, so I kept it up. About two months past my 21st birthday was when I was fitted for a full set of dentures...

[Pixilated]

Wow, seriously? I read the first half of that sentence and guessed that you were going to say that two cans wasn't very much at all!

When I was a kid, I drank at the very least, two 32oz. Big Gulps a day. My parents didn't bother trying to limit my intake.

I paid for it, too. Every time I'd get a new dentist, the first thing he'd say upon looking at my teeth was "You sure drink a lot of Coke, don't you?"

When I was 12, a dentist told me "If you keep this up, you'll have dentures by the time you're 21." Naturally, I knew better, so I kept it up. About two months past my 21st birthday was when I was fitted for a full set of dentures...


My exhub (my kids dad) had a full set shortly before the age of 30. He lived off Mt Dew & didnt take care of his teeth. Needless to say, our kisses consisted of pecks only (I couldnt imagine french kissing someone who neglects their mouth & contents)


do you regret not taking care of your teeth? Were they expensive? Did you pay for them or parents? Do you think if your parents would have been making your drink choices for you that this wouldve made a difference?

[DrDeth]

Thanks for the info, WhyNot. I stand corrected. I had thought the pulp added dietary fiber, but apparently not. .

I am pretty sure it does. Per wiki, a single orange has 2.4G of fiber. However, much of that is lost when the organge is juiced, although OJ with pulp still has some ( I get different figures when searching, sorry, but it's a gram or less) and other good stuff. A whole orange is best, followed by OJ with pulp.