I'm fairly sure my best friend's wife is cheating on him. What to do?

[Shamozzle]

Ok, here's the situation.

My best friend and his wife (who is also a very good friend of mine) have a male mutual friend who visits them often. I am only vaguely familiar with their friend. When he visits them he parks right outside their house. Pretty simple so far.

Now, whenever my best friend happens to be out of town on work, it turns out that this friend of theirs continues to visit their house. But on theses occasions he decides to park half a block down the street. Overnight, with him leaving in the morning. Ugh.

Unbeknownst to him, he happens to park right in front of my sister's house.

The fellow in question happens to drive a distinct car and my sister started to notice this pattern in his parking habits and alarm bells started going off in her head. She alerted me to the situation.

Everything points to infidelity on the part of my best friend's wife. I'm so bummed out. What do I do?

My first instinct is to tell my best friend what's going on and I think I will. Should I, or am I missing anything?

[Giraffe]

If it was my best friend, I would tell him. But only the facts of what you know, nothing more. If you phrase it in a "I hope it's nothing, but I know I'd want to know if the situation was reversed..." way, he can decide whether the information means anything and hopefully things won't end up weird between you. Then never mention it again.

[phouka]

Having been cheated on, and having "friends" who knew what was going on and didn't tell me . . .

Tell him.

I know some people worry that when they tell a friend they're being cheated on, the friend will get angry at them. Maybe. But that's the friend's choice. Your choice is whether or not you're going to do the honorable thing.

Considering that his wife may be putting him at risk for sexually transmitted disease or even deceiving him into fathering a child that isn't his own, tell him.

[Northern Piper]

Previous thread on topic: Pre-Divorce Etiquette: The Cheating Spouse and the Circle of Friends (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=463291)

[HazelNutCoffee]

Ugh. I dunno. If one of my friends was cheating on the other, I'd probably confront the cheating one first (assuming that we're close enough to have that kind of conversation).

[BiblioCat]

Having been cheated on, and having "friends" who knew what was going on and didn't tell me . . .

Tell him.
Ditto. I was more pissed that my so-called friends knew what was going on and never thought to tell me. I ran into one of the people who knew about my ex's cheating in a class recently, and she could barely look me in the eye.

I think this is the third or fourth time in recent weeks that we've had a thread about this subject, and in one of them I was the lone voice of "Tell him!"
Everyone says it's none of your business, and that your friend will be pissed off at you if you tell him, but think about how he'll feel when he finds out the truth, and then finds out you knew about it all along.

[Green Cymbeline]

Of course you should tell him. He's your best friend, right? There should be no question that you should tell him.

Like BiblioCat I would be extremely angry if my friends knew something and didn't tell me. Only a coward and a weak friend would keep it a secret.

It might also be worth trying to catch the wife in the act, so that she can't explain it away... when your sister sees the guy's car, go over to the house and knock on the door.

You friend needs to know so he can get out of that relationship!

[Rubystreak]

If it's your best friend, IMO you have to tell him. Try to say it without expecting any certain reaction from him because who knows what he'll do? He might stay with her, so be careful about bad mouthing her despite the temptation, esp. if he freaks out.

Also, I would not advise telling his wife first and demanding that she tell him, because she might pull some ass-covering maneuvers that will, in the end, make you look bad. Your obligation is to him, not her, as I see it.

Good luck.

[Ruby]

You don't "know" anything. You heard something from your sister about someone that you're not sure is even who you think it is.

Unless you've personally witnessed this person in a compromising position, stay the hell out of it. You have no idea what kind of destruction you could do to your friend and his marriage if you were, Og forbid, wrong about what you think you "know".

[Rubystreak]

Upon reading Ruby's post, my thought is that you maybe need to see for yourself that it's the friend's car. Be sure about what you're saying before you say it. Because she's right, you could do irreparable damage to their marriage if you aren't. But if you are correct, I still think you have to tell.

[Geek Mecha]

Tell your friend what you saw. You can't conclude with any confidence his wife is cheating on him; you only know what looks suspicious. Give your friend the pieces of this suspicious picture, and let him fill in the rest on his own. You never know, there might be innocent or understandable reasons for this.

[Dewey Finn]

Rather than suggesting cheating, you might simply mention that you saw the "distinct car" in the neighborhood and was wondering if the "male mutual friend" was visiting.

[LouisB]

MYOB. Your friend will not thank you. If his wife is cheating and they work it out, his wife will not thank you. If they divorce, neither one will thank you. If you know for certain she is cheating, how do you know that your friend doesn't know, doesn't care, might even approve, or what? In fact, you don't know anything for certain. Stay the hell out of it.

[Zebra]

When I found out that I was the last one to know what a WHORE I had married, I was pretty humiliated and angry.

[astro]

I have to admit the "tell him" impulse is strong, but in a fair number of these circumstances it becomes a "no good deed goes unpunished" scenario, and you stand a greater than zero chance of being shunned by both the cheater and the cuckold if they work their issues out. This is one of the reasons people keep their mouths shut. The impulse is to to tell, but he real world result of doing this often does not play out as expected re the recipient of the info being grateful.

[Green Cymbeline]

The impulse is to to tell, but he real world result of doing this often does not play out as expected re the recipient of the info being grateful.What? I have never ever heard a tale where a concerned friend tells his/her best friend what they know about their SO cheating, and the BF ends up being angry or shunning the friend. This makes no sense. Why would the cheatee be angry at their friend for telling them the truth, and looking out for their best interests?

Look at the opposite situation however... BF finds out you knew about the cheating and didn't tell. Now, he should be mad. Why would you withhold a piece of knowledge about something that is seriously hurting your friend? Here's an analogy: Let's say your friend was drinking poisoned water... you knew it was poisoned but decided to MYOB... that makes no sense!! You may say, well poison is more serious... perhaps, but one's marriage is pretty serious too! In either scenario, he's ending up injured. You have the power to give him the ability to stop the injury sooner rather than later.

I was repeatedly cheated on by an ex-boyfriend and our mutual friends all knew. And for so long, they acted like my "friends" when they knew all along. When I later found out, you better believe I was angry that no one told me. I was humiliated and felt completely disrespected by all these so-called "friends." I would never trust any of them again, and couldn't even look any of them in the eye again. They were all cowards. If anyone had had the courage to tell me the truth, I would have been so incredibly thankful. And it would have saved me from further injury (since the cheating occurred multiple times).

[astro]

What? I have never ever heard a tale where a concerned friend tells his/her best friend what they know about their SO cheating, and the BF ends up being angry or shunning the friend. This makes no sense. Why would the cheatee be angry at their friend for telling them the truth, and looking out for their best interests?

Look at the opposite situation however... BF finds out you knew about the cheating and didn't tell. Now, he should be mad. Why would you withhold a piece of knowledge about something that is seriously hurting your friend? Here's an analogy: Let's say your friend was drinking poisoned water... you knew it was poisoned but decided to MYOB... that makes no sense!! You may say, well poison is more serious... perhaps, but one's marriage is pretty serious too! In either scenario, he's ending up injured. You have the power to give him the ability to stop the injury sooner rather than later.

I was repeatedly cheated on by an ex-boyfriend and our mutual friends all knew. And for so long, they acted like my "friends" when they knew all along. When I later found out, you better believe I was angry that no one told me. I was humiliated and felt completely disrespected by all these so-called "friends." I would never trust any of them again, and couldn't even look any of them in the eye again. They were all cowards. If anyone had had the courage to tell me the truth, I would have been so incredibly thankful. And it would have saved me from further injury (since the cheating occurred multiple times).

So what happens if they work it out and/or she/her forgives him/her? At that point the cheater hates you, and may be actively antagonistic towards you socially via shunning or blackballing you if they have any power, and the cheatee is embarrassed by the fact they are still with the cheater. From many people's perspective plausible deniability is better than being in the middle of your relationship scrum.

As the very old saying goes

Married couples resemble a pair of scissors, often moving in opposite directions, yet punishing anyone who gets in between them.

All you folks who were cheated on and your friends kept quiet need to understand that people do this not because they don't care about you, but because getting in the middle of a relationship mess by tattling on one partner or the other has substantial risks.

[sandra_nz]

Rather than suggesting cheating, you might simply mention that you saw the "distinct car" in the neighborhood and was wondering if the "male mutual friend" was visiting.

This.

Also, I think you need to confirm it is the man you think it is before you say anything at all - could your sister take a picture of him from her window? Not to show the husband, just so that you can be 100% sure that it's him.

Then butt right out of it, leave it for him to take any action if he wants to.

[Green Cymbeline]

All you folks who were cheated on and your friends kept quiet need to understand that people do this not because they don't care about you, but because getting in the middle of a relationship mess by tattling on one partner or the other has substantial risks.That's why I said they were cowards. The truth may not always be easy, but it's always the best policy. Keeping quiet is equal to being complicit in the cheating. Not telling is the same as lying, which is no better than the cheater.

And if the BF and the wife make up, and you're shunned... then the BF is a coward, and not a true friend to begin with. Anyone who would shun you for looking out for you is NOT a friend you want to keep.

[Mosier]

The truth may not always be easy, but it's always the best policy.

This is quite a naive opinion to hold. There is no human being on the planet who wants to hear the truth in every situation. That doesn't make them cowards, like you said. It just makes them human.

Nobody "finds out" their spouse has been cheating on them regularly, despite what Zebra and phouka said earlier. If your spouse is regularly cheating on you, you either know it, suspect it, or are ignoring and trying to deny it.

[drachillix]

So what happens if they work it out and/or she/her forgives him/her? At that point the cheater hates you, and may be actively antagonistic towards you socially via shunning or blackballing you if they have any power, and the cheatee is embarrassed by the fact they are still with the cheater. From many people's perspective plausible deniability is better than being in the middle of your relationship scrum..


Well if the cheatee has 3 firing braincells and a friend in the know, it is possible for him to conveniently happen to be in the right place at the right time. Friend calls because he sees car in question in the neighborhood. Oops forgot that paperwork for the Lewis job...guess I will have to run home and pick it up....hello :eek:

The name of the friend need not ever become an issue.

I found out about some similar activity with a g/f at the time. She did not know that one of her co-workers was an aquaintance I played D&D and or Battletech with occasionally. He was a goldmine of useful information and allowed me to find out where she really was on several occasions and conveniently "appear" to disrupt her plans.

Finally gave up on disrupting her and split up.

[sandra_nz]

So basically the argument for not telling your friend your suspicions is that said friend may not like you afterwards, is that what this boils down to?

[DianaG]

I think this is the third or fourth time in recent weeks that we've had a thread about this subject, and in one of them I was the lone voice of "Tell him!"
And I was a loud voice of "MYOB", but this is a different situation. If this guy is really your best friend, then you have a loyalty to him that transcends the normal MYOB rules.

Tell him what you've been told, and only what you've been told. Tell him in the most neutral possible tone, don't embellish, don't rush to judgement, and don't interfere any further.

It might also be worth trying to catch the wife in the act, so that she can't explain it away... when your sister sees the guy's car, go over to the house and knock on the door.

You friend needs to know so he can get out of that relationship!
See, this here is some bullshit. Your role here is to give your best friend the information he needs to decide what he wants to do. NOT to nuke his marriage from orbit.

[lobotomyboy63]

A lot of people would want to know the spouse was cheating. I'm in that camp. A lot of people shoot the messenger. I'm not in that camp.

People have funny definitions of friendship. They seem to think that if you bum out a friend in some way, you're not being a friend. I disagree wholeheartedly. It's short-sighted IMO to think that friends always gladhand you, never 'taint' themselves with this stuff. Come to think of it, one of the best definitions of a friend I ever heard was, "A friend is a person who is there for you when he'd rather be anyplace else."

You share the good; you share the bad. If your friends won't tell you, who will? Ordinarily I'd say MYOB but if this is truly a best friend, I think it's your obligation to tell. "Just the facts," no conclusions or inferences.

There may be some awkwardness and misplaced resentment in the aftermath, and while that couple sieves through the shit, you may not hear from him for awhile. But with a little time it should resume being a friendship. If it doesn't, how much of a friendship was it in the first place?

[Carson O'Genic]

If it isn't fact it's rumour.

[TheLoadedDog]

A lot of people would want to know the spouse was cheating. I'm in that camp. A lot of people shoot the messenger. I'm not in that camp.

People have funny definitions of friendship. They seem to think that if you bum out a friend in some way, you're not being a friend. I disagree wholeheartedly. It's short-sighted IMO to think that friends always gladhand you, never 'taint' themselves with this stuff. Come to think of it, one of the best definitions of a friend I ever heard was, "A friend is a person who is there for you when he'd rather be anyplace else."

You share the good; you share the bad. If your friends won't tell you, who will? Ordinarily I'd say MYOB but if this is truly a best friend, I think it's your obligation to tell. "Just the facts," no conclusions or inferences.

There may be some awkwardness and misplaced resentment in the aftermath, and while that couple sieves through the shit, you may not hear from him for awhile. But with a little time it should resume being a friendship. If it doesn't, how much of a friendship was it in the first place?

I agree with all of this.

I have a similar (smaller) problem. I work with a married couple. Friends with both (independently). I've probably known the husband longer than the wife, but I've known them both for donkey's years (long before they married). Husband is a big , BIG gambler, and about six years or so ago, confided in me that he was $45 000 in debt due to slot machines, and had actually gotten compassionate exemption to dig into his superannuation to pay it off. Then he married, and his wife is very clean living and also reasonably well off. So his bacon was kinda saved financially. And I think he did quit gambling (at least for a time).

A fortnight ago, he rings me. I was at work, but it was his day off. He asked me "if there's any chance of two or three hundred until payday." I said no. Then I resolved I should tell his wife - both are friends and she has a right to know. Then I changed my mind - the male bonding thing and all that; maybe my first loyalty is to him. I still haven't told her. But having read this thread, now I think I will. Faaarrk, I dunno.

I mean, I KNOW what the money is for, but hey, maybe it's not.

[ScareyFaerie]

Maybe the wife asked the friend (or whoever is driving the car) to park down the road so that the nosy neighbours wouldn't get the wrong idea and start spreading rumours.

[lobotomyboy63]

Maybe the wife asked the friend (or whoever is driving the car) to park down the road so that the nosy neighbours wouldn't get the wrong idea and start spreading rumours.

And the "staying overnight" part?

@Loaded: That's tough. Gambling is an addiction, like alcoholism. On one hand, she knows he's had the problem and is probably vigilant. OTOH like you say, you don't know for sure what the money's for.

Given that he's had the problem before, doesn't it take a lot of people to pool information to keep him on the straight and narrow? But, knowing that you know his history, would he really come to you? It's possible he came up short for an anniversary gift etc. but it's possibly not.

As a friend to BOTH, I think you'd give her the facts. Maybe it's nothing, maybe not, up to her to figure out. I wouldn't be alarmist OR pooh pooh away the possibilities.

[TheLoadedDog]

Maybe the wife asked the friend (or whoever is driving the car) to park down the road so that the nosy neighbours wouldn't get the wrong idea and start spreading rumours.


Oooooh yeah. That's another thing.

My best friend is a single woman (also a workmate). I'm a single guy. When I was married, she'd freely associate with me, but when I divorced, she backed off. Only then did the rumours start. I told her she was being daft, and to just bloody talk to me if she wanted as everyone knew we were friends, and the artificial distance looked bad. So she did, and the rumours evaporated overnight.

So that is a thing worth considering.

[TheLoadedDog]

@Loaded: That's tough. Gambling is an addiction, like alcoholism. On one hand, she knows he's had the problem and is probably vigilant. OTOH like you say, you don't know for sure what the money's for.

Given that he's had the problem before, doesn't it take a lot of people to pool information to keep him on the straight and narrow? But, knowing that you know his history, would he really come to you? It's possible he came up short for an anniversary gift etc. but it's possibly not.

As a friend to BOTH, I think you'd give her the facts. Maybe it's nothing, maybe not, up to her to figure out. I wouldn't be alarmist OR pooh pooh away the possibilities.

Yeah. I think that's what I'm going to do (unless I chicken out again in the morning).

BTW, when I mentioned the "male bonding" thing as a reason to give preference to him more than his wife, it' not so much that I subscribe to that view, but that that was the spirit in which he made the phone call. He obviously trusts me not to tell her.

[ScareyFaerie]

And the "staying overnight" part?
Maybe she doesn't like to stay in the house alone at night.

[lobotomyboy63]

Yeah. I think that's what I'm going to do (unless I chicken out again in the morning).

BTW, when I mentioned the "male bonding" thing as a reason to give preference to him more than his wife, it' not so much that I subscribe to that view, but that that was the spirit in which he made the phone call. He obviously trusts me not to tell her.

Gotcha. I tend to be a "low risk" kinda guy and in the situation you describe, I'd hate to think that three months from now he'll be in all that debt again b/c I didn't nip it in the bud. OTOH I like to think people can overcome their addictions and walk tall again. Tough decision....

[lobotomyboy63]

Maybe she doesn't like to stay in the house alone at night.

That's what girlfriends and relatives are for.

It occurred to me that he might be gay and therefore no threat per se.

[ScareyFaerie]

That's what girlfriends and relatives are for. It occurred to me that he might be gay and therefore no threat per se.
Girlfriends aren't much good if you've got burglars and they're the kind of friends who'd panic and start screaming. There might not be any relatives close by. Gay friend is a good alternative!

[China Guy]

Tell him. I'd try to get a photo but that shouldn't slow things down. But just give the facts. As in "this is what has been observed" I'll leave it with you and you can follow up or not however you see fit.

[Dung Beetle]

You don't "know" anything. You heard something from your sister about someone that you're not sure is even who you think it is.

Unless you've personally witnessed this person in a compromising position, stay the hell out of it. You have no idea what kind of destruction you could do to your friend and his marriage if you were, Og forbid, wrong about what you think you "know".
What Ruby said.

[Contrapuntal]

I say tell him. I would want to know. If he's staying overnight to protect her, there is no reason for the husband not to know, and no reason to park down the street.

You don't need a photo. A confirmation of the license plate number is sufficient.

[Shakes]

Snip...
Unbeknownst to him, he happens to park right in front of my sister's house.

You sure he's not boinking your sister?



yeah, yeah I know; I'm leaving. sorry I couldn't resist.

[storyteller0910]

Just for what it's worth:

Not every married couple chooses to be sexually monogamous.

Not every married couple that is not sexually monogamous makes this known even to the best of friends.

You know way less than you think you know. If you must get involved, do so very carefully and stick to what you know. Others have said it, but it's worth emphasizing. Don't do any amateur sleuthing, don't speculate, and after you've said what you need to say, drop it and don't try to follow-up. If, after receiving the information, your friend wants to discuss it with you further, he'll let you know.

[The Lovely Margo Lane]

Just for what it's worth:

Not every married couple chooses to be sexually monogamous.

Not every married couple that is not sexually monogamous makes this known even to the best of friends.

You know way less than you think you know. If you must get involved, do so very carefully and stick to what you know. Others have said it, but it's worth emphasizing. Don't do any amateur sleuthing, don't speculate, and after you've said what you need to say, drop it and don't try to follow-up. If, after receiving the information, your friend wants to discuss it with you further, he'll let you know.
This.

Give him the FACTS, as you know them (including quoting your sister if you haven't actually seen the car yourself) and leave it at that- just "I thought you might want to know this" and not "so what's up?" Don't make any suggestions to him about how to "catch" his wife or any such dramatics.

[DianaG]

And that is the real root of the MYOB rule.

You don't know anything about anyone else's relationship. You may think you do. You're wrong. A marriage is largely opaque to those outside of it.

[Shakes]

Oh, come on. I'm pretty sure I'd know if my best friend were a swinger.

I mean really. We're talk about a one in a million chance that the OP's friend is a swinger AND keeps it secret from him.

[storyteller0910]

Oh, come on. I'm pretty sure I'd know if my best friend were a swinger.

Suuuuuuure you would.

[Zebra]

Nobody "finds out" their spouse has been cheating on them regularly, despite what Zebra and phouka said earlier. If your spouse is regularly cheating on you, you either know it, suspect it, or are ignoring and trying to deny it.

Yes, but when it is confimed, and you friends say "Yeah, I knew six months ago", therealization that nobody in your life is loyal to you really sucks.

[Shamozzle]

Thanks to everyone for the input, there's a lot of wisdom on these boards.

I really like the idea of informing my friend of the facts and then leaving it alone.

I'll let him know that their friend is parking halfway down the street and is staying overnight while he is out of town. My friend can decide what it means and what he wants to do about it.

[Dung Beetle]

Anyone seen the friend go into or come out of that particular house? All I read was that he parks half a block up.

[Cheesesteak]

I'll let him know that their friend is parking halfway down the street and is staying overnight while he is out of town. To be fair, unless you've seen him go in, and leave in the morning, you don't really know he's staying overnight, it just appears that way. Stick to facts that your sister is willing to confirm that she saw with her own eyes, and leave the assumptions to him.

Getting the license plate number is a good idea, unless she saw him personally and can identify him as the friend.

[Scumpup]

You and your sister need to butt out of this other couple's marriage and stay out of it.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Rather than suggesting cheating, you might simply mention that you saw the "distinct car" in the neighborhood and was wondering if the "male mutual friend" was visiting.That sounds like the best bet to me. Besides, you don't have any solid evidence in any case.

In your shoes I would set it up like a question/joke, to let him know, while at the same time playing stupid.

"MaleBuddy keeps parking his car in front of my sister's house overnight. Did your wife set him up with a girl in the neighborhood? Like last week (the weekend your buddy was away), he must've been there all weekend! Heh, heh, if we don't get to meet his new squeeze soon, people are gonna start to talk."

So you can alert him to whatyou've seen without making any accusation. If it's all innocent and he knows the real deal, he'll probably tell you. If your best friend knows about the afair and approves, he'll pass on the message to MaleBuddy to find somewhere else to park, so he doesn't look like a cuckold. If it's all news to him, he'll ask you what the hell you're talking about, and then you can tell him only what you can confirm, that your sister keeps seeing his car parked in front of her house overnight... while he's away.

But I'd present it as a question as if your buddy is the one who knows the answers. If you state a fact and tell him, you're the bearer of the bad news. If you ask him then he "figures it out for hiimself."

[Eonwe]

So basically the argument for not telling your friend your suspicions is that said friend may not like you afterwards, is that what this boils down to?

That's the gist of it. The idea being that, if you've been burdened with information about a friend being cheated upon, you can either:

- Give the friend the information you have, risking any irrational shoot-the-messenger backlash, or

- Keep the secret, becoming complicit in the cheating, while maintaining your hunky-dorey friendship!


Really, I agree that neither of the options are easy, and that one would probably wish that one didn't know about the cheating. However, I know which choice I would make, and I know which one I'd want my friends to make, if it were about me.

[phouka]

Nobody "finds out" their spouse has been cheating on them regularly, despite what Zebra and phouka said earlier. If your spouse is regularly cheating on you, you either know it, suspect it, or are ignoring and trying to deny it.

And this is errant bullshit.

You know how I found out?

I started having pelvic pain and running a fever. My immune system is fairly frail, and I realized I could be having a bout of pelvic inflammatory disease - which can be caused by normal body flora - and asked my boyfriend to take me to the local ER.

Yes, I had PID, and it was caused by trichomoniasis, a sexually transmitted disease. I could only have gotten it from my boyfriend, and he didn't have it when we both got STD tests at the beginning of our relationship.

Once I wrapped my brain around the concept - because I did not suspect my boyfriend was cheating on me - I broke up with my boyfriend immediately.

A week after that, one of our mutual friends told me that he'd known about the cheating with the woman, and suspected my ex had been cheating with the woman's boyfriend as well. I hadn't known because my ex had stopped going to his job so he had time to screw around.

That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew what was going on, because the woman and her boyfriend had talked openly about it. That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew I didn't know about it. I don't know why none of them chose to tell me. I don't care. They are no longer my friends, and I suspect that they never were.

So, Mosier, not only is it completely possible for a person to be unaware and unsuspecting of cheating, it doesn't matter. What they do with the information of their partner's behavior is their business, but refusing to give them that information is unethical and immoral. Saying otherwise is a cheap cop-out that leaves them vulnerable to physical and emotional harm because you don't have the balls to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Blaming the victim on top of that is incredibly callous.

[even sven]

I would tell the "mutual friend" that he's been parking in front of your sister's house. Then he'll have the choice to come clean to you, or do a better job of hiding his cheating.

Other than that, this isn't your business. The chances of something bad happening as a result of your getting involved outweigh the chances of something bad happening.

[Scumpup]

No marriage is improved by a third party acting as a shit-stirrer. In this case, since your sister is involving herself, two shit-stirrers.
Honestly, what do you realistically hope to accomplish by inserting yourself into this situation? All you know is that a car is parking down the block from where your friends live. Actually, you don't even know that...you just heard it from your sister, who apparently has too much time on her hands if she's able to monitor who parks where and who is away on business.
Let's play a little what-if game. Describe how you imagine this all playing out if you go carrying the story to the husband. Please include how you picture the wife, who you also claim as a friend, is going to react.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

Anyone seen the friend go into or come out of that particular house? All I read was that he parks half a block up.That's also why, if I was in the OP's position, I would ask a question and not suggest an accusation.

Maybe it really is innocent and that the guy met someone in the neighborhood through the OP's buddy or his wife. And if it's all truly innocent and the OP says "Hey, I think MaleBuddy has been staying over with your wife." His pal is going to want to smack him. "How dare you'd even think that my angelic wife was cheating on me! What's wrong with you? MaleBuddy has been dating NeighborChick since they met at a BBQ at our place. But you'd just assume my wife was cheating on me??? You asshole!"

Asking an "innocent " question that supplies the important facts without implying an accusation will give your buddy the heads up if she's cheating, or will clarify the real situation (e.g. the guy is dating a neighbor).

[sandra_nz]

"MaleBuddy keeps parking his car in front of my sister's house overnight. Did your wife set him up with a girl in the neighborhood? Like last week (the weekend your buddy was away), he must've been there all weekend! Heh, heh, if we don't get to meet his new squeeze soon, people are gonna start to talk."


I wouldn't use the last sentence (it's a bit too "knowing"), but I like the approach of assuming the wife has set him up with someone local.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

I wouldn't use the last sentence (it's a bit too "knowing"), but I like the approach of assuming the wife has set him up with someone local.Yeah, it's best to hold off on any sly suggestion. Just ask a question while totally assuming complete innocence on everyone's part.

[Scumpup]

Yreah, that'll be just great slipping the topic into conversation like that. I'm sure that the OP and his married friends chat about parking arrangements all the time. Moreover, I'm sure that the OP is_no doubt_an accomplished actor and will be able to deliver the line in a believably offhand and innocent way.
This will end at least one friendship: that between the Op and the supposedly cheating wife. If she and her husband stay together despite the shit-stirring, I expect his friendship with the OP won't last due to his wife's dislike.

[tdn]

What? I have never ever heard a tale where a concerned friend tells his/her best friend what they know about their SO cheating, and the BF ends up being angry or shunning the friend. This makes no sense. Why would the cheatee be angry at their friend for telling them the truth, and looking out for their best interests?
That's a very logical way of looking at it. But we are talking about, ahem, affairs of the heart. Logic doesn't live here anymore. The only thing in play is raw emotion.

Swallowed My Cellphone has the best advice on this.

[Mosier]

And this is errant bullshit.

You know how I found out?

I started having pelvic pain and running a fever. My immune system is fairly frail, and I realized I could be having a bout of pelvic inflammatory disease - which can be caused by normal body flora - and asked my boyfriend to take me to the local ER.

Yes, I had PID, and it was caused by trichomoniasis, a sexually transmitted disease. I could only have gotten it from my boyfriend, and he didn't have it when we both got STD tests at the beginning of our relationship.

Once I wrapped my brain around the concept - because I did not suspect my boyfriend was cheating on me - I broke up with my boyfriend immediately.

A week after that, one of our mutual friends told me that he'd known about the cheating with the woman, and suspected my ex had been cheating with the woman's boyfriend as well. I hadn't known because my ex had stopped going to his job so he had time to screw around.

That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew what was going on, because the woman and her boyfriend had talked openly about it. That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew I didn't know about it. I don't know why none of them chose to tell me. I don't care. They are no longer my friends, and I suspect that they never were.

So, Mosier, not only is it completely possible for a person to be unaware and unsuspecting of cheating, it doesn't matter. What they do with the information of their partner's behavior is their business, but refusing to give them that information is unethical and immoral. Saying otherwise is a cheap cop-out that leaves them vulnerable to physical and emotional harm because you don't have the balls to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Blaming the victim on top of that is incredibly callous.

Your boyfriend stopped going to his job so he could have sex with two other people, who talked openly about it, and you had NO IDEA? Seriously?

I'm not blaming you for being cheated on. I'm not trying to diminish the terrible thing this guy did to you, but the fact you can make coherent sentences and seem to have a solid grasp on the concept of cause and effect proves that you are NOT an idiot.

[phouka]

Your boyfriend stopped going to his job so he could have sex with two other people, who talked openly about it, and you had NO IDEA? Seriously?

I'm not blaming you for being cheated on. I'm not trying to diminish the terrible thing this guy did to you, but the fact you can make coherent sentences and seem to have a solid grasp on the concept of cause and effect proves that you are NOT an idiot.

Seriously.

The two people talking about it did not, of course, talk about it in front of me. They talked about it in front of our mutual "friends" - who neglected to tell me anything.

I was, at the time, commuting an hour to work each way and working all the overtime I could get to pay bills. My ex's contract at work had ended, and the company had directed everyone to go to training sessions. Proof of attendance was signing a check-off form, which he got a friend to do. So it's not like there was a sudden reduction in money to explain.

I was fighting a bout of depression, exhausted, socially withdrawn, stressed out, desperate to make my boyfriend happy, and beginning to understand that our relationship was unhealthy. But the one thing I never expected or suspected was that he was cheating on me.

It is possible, Mosier, to be intelligent, coherent, reasonably mature, and not see betrayal coming. I trusted him. He cheated on me. There were no warning signs I was oblivious to, and believe me, I did plenty of soul searching afterwards. I was not in denial. I couldn't even tell you why he cheated on me, other than he ended up not being a very good human being.

Even if I had been oblivious, if I'd set up camp on the banks of da Nile and thrown myself a party, the people who considered themselves my friends should have made some effort to inform me. If I'd continued partying in oblivion and denial, they'd have been off the hook.

They didn't.

Their betrayal hurt at least as much as my former boyfriend's. If I happened to be walking down the street with a bucket of cold piss and saw them on the other side, engulfed in flame, I doubt I'd bother to cross the street and douse them.

So far, several other people who've been cheated on have agreed with me - if you know of someone cheating, tell their partner. So far, no one who's been cheated on has said "don't bother telling me."

[Contrary]

Mosier, I had a BF who cheated on me for two years with his previous girlfriend. I had no idea, I thought they were still friends in the same way my exhusband and I were (and are) still friends.

Imagine my surprise when the ex GF told me . . . Your insinuation that we all somehow KNOW or pretend NOT to know is a bit presumptuous. I would never have expected him to cheat on me, and I certainly had a rude awakening when she told me.

[Green Cymbeline]

Yes, but when it is confimed, and you friends say "Yeah, I knew six months ago", the realization that nobody in your life is loyal to you really sucks.Brilliantly put. This says it all.

[Cat Fight]

Stay over at your sister's, catch him going to his car in the morning. Ask him what he's been up to. You should be able to gauge the situation by his reaction. Act slightly suspicious, maybe tell him you've seen him in the neighborhood quite a bit lately.

This should lead to an 'I think Shamozzle knows about us' conversation between him and her, and possibly a phone call from her to you or a confession from her to her husband. Or nothing. Ideally, though, I think you're much safer having her confess than telling him yourself.

Or perhaps he'll tell you a lie (e.g. he house sits for them). Which you can bring up casually to the husband.

[Green Cymbeline]

... That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew what was going on, because the woman and her boyfriend had talked openly about it. That "friend" and the other members of my social circle knew I didn't know about it. I don't know why none of them chose to tell me. I don't care. They are no longer my friends, and I suspect that they never were.

So, Mosier, not only is it completely possible for a person to be unaware and unsuspecting of cheating, it doesn't matter. What they do with the information of their partner's behavior is their business, but refusing to give them that information is unethical and immoral. Saying otherwise is a cheap cop-out that leaves them vulnerable to physical and emotional harm because you don't have the balls to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Blaming the victim on top of that is incredibly callous.phouka, very well put. This is a perfect story to illustrate why friends have an ethical duty to tell their friend if they know that harm is being done to them. If someone had told you, you could have gotten out of the relationship and avoided becoming infected with an STD. What kind of friend would "MYOB" and allow their friend to be subject to continued harm? That makes them directly complicit in the cheating.

[lavenderviolet]

not only is it completely possible for a person to be unaware and unsuspecting of cheating, it doesn't matter. What they do with the information of their partner's behavior is their business, but refusing to give them that information is unethical and immoral. Saying otherwise is a cheap cop-out that leaves them vulnerable to physical and emotional harm because you don't have the balls to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation. Blaming the victim on top of that is incredibly callous.
I also agree with you. No need to make accusations, but it's only fair to tell someone if you've seen evidence that a reasonable person would suspect cheating from.
As far as I know I've never been cheated on, but if I were, I'd be furious with anyone who knew about the cheating and decided not to tell me. I'd probably end up taking it out on those people even more than my cheating partner (since I'd probably still have some misguided love left over for that jerk in spite of the cheating).
I think I'll let my friends know: "Hey, by the way, if I ever find out you know my boyfriend was cheating on me and don't bother to tell me, be prepared for me to kick your [booty] up and down the street. Just FYI." Maybe then they won't try to pull this "oh I didn't tell you because I didn't want you to be mad at me" song and dance. :)

[Green Cymbeline]

It is possible, Mosier, to be intelligent, coherent, reasonably mature, and not see betrayal coming. I trusted him. He cheated on me.
...
Their betrayal hurt at least as much as my former boyfriend's. If I happened to be walking down the street with a bucket of cold piss and saw them on the other side, engulfed in flame, I doubt I'd bother to cross the street and douse them.

So far, several other people who've been cheated on have agreed with me - if you know of someone cheating, tell their partner. So far, no one who's been cheated on has said "don't bother telling me."Exactly... I was cheated on too, over a long period of time by an ex-boyfriend, and I didn't know until much later. And yes, the failure of our "friends" to tell me hurt a lot and was a huge betrayal.

[ivylass]

So the general consensus is, you want to be told? I believe that is the best solution.

I have been told things about an SO that he was hiding from me (not cheating, other things.) I was not mad at the person who told me...I was mad at the SO.

If this guy is your best friend, tell him. If your position was reversed, and your lady was entertaining a friend at all hours while you were out of town, and your best friend knew...would you expect him to tell you?

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

I'm sure that the OP and his married friends chat about parking arrangements all the time. Who said anything about trying to slip "parking arrangements" into a conversation? You've never asked a mutual friend about a buddy of yours? That kind of stuff is routine.

Example: My buddies and I noticed a friend of ours suddenly hanging out an awful lot at a particular pub, nowhere near his place. So even just to take the piss out of him we start needling him: "So... who is she? C'mon! You're driving all the way to Ye Old Pub and hanging out there for hours? There's gotta be a girl!" (He'd been trying to get the waitress to date him.)

So you don't have to be a clod and ask about "parking arrangements".

ETA: You don't need to be a great actor either. You just ask a genuine question: "So what's up with Buddy? Is he dating someone new? He's parked in front of my sister's all the time." It still is actually possible that by hanging out with the OP's friend he met someone around there.

[Scumpup]

The longer this thread goes on, the more convinced I am that there is a deep-seated desire to meddle in the affairs of others in the human psyche. Especially when there are folks who want to play private eye as part of meddling in something that is NYB...or who start coming up with ways to "tell" the husband without really telling him so that you can maintain plausible deniability that you were meddling.
If you feel like you really, really have to insert yourself into these other people's marriage, then gird up your loins and start interfering openly. Don't try to be cute about it. Walk right up to your buddy and say
"Hey pal! You know my sister, Gladys Kravitz, who lives right up the street from you? Well, she's been seeing yer buddy, Schlongy McHorsecock's, car parked on her street at night while you are away on business. I just had to tell you, man to man, that based on that evidence I think Schlongy is pouring the pork to your wife. Yeah, I'm her friend too, but that car just screams cock-monster nympho to me and I just HAD to tell you."
If you're correct, he'll thank you, right? If you're wrong, he'll still be your friend (and she will too) because you had only their best interests at heart, right?

Stay out of their private lives.

[ivylass]

He's involved in their private life. He's the best friend.

No one is suggesting that he be as crude as your scenario. But there's nothing wrong with friends letting other friends know something is up that may hurt them.

[Uncommon Sense]

Stay out of their private lives.

What if you knew the guy your best friend's wife was screwing had AIDS or some other communicable disease?
What if the wife is a recovering drug addict and the guy staying over is a known coke-head?
When does the best interest of a friend trump "Stay out of their private lives." And how do you know this isn't one of those times? Who makes that call?

[Scumpup]

What if you knew the guy your best friend's wife was screwing had AIDS or some other communicable disease?
What if the wife is a recovering drug addict and the guy staying over is a known coke-head?
When does the best interest of a friend trump "Stay out of their private lives." And how do you know this isn't one of those times? Who makes that call?

None of that applies because he doesn't know anything remotely like it. He heard from his sister, Mrs. Kravitz, about a car parked on the street and then he (or they) basically fabricated everything else from that.

[Scumpup]

He's involved in their private life. He's the best friend.

No one is suggesting that he be as crude as your scenario. But there's nothing wrong with friends letting other friends know something is up that may hurt them.

He's NOT a partner in their marriage.

Interfering in another's marriage is okay when you're cunning about it rather than when you're crude? God save me from friends who think like that.

[Bridget Burke]

Are you quite sure that your friend is really out of town for "work"? And work alone?

[tdn]

Interfering in another's marriage is okay when you're cunning about it rather than when you're crude?
Hopefully somewhere in between cunning and crude is an approach that's appropriate. No need to sneak in the back door, and no need to bash down the front. Maybe something along the lines of "I know it's none of my business, but as a friend I'm concerned about something." Let him pace it from there.

[Eureka]

Hopefully somewhere in between cunning and crude is an approach that's appropriate. No need to sneak in the back door, and no need to bash down the front. Maybe something along the lines of "I know it's none of my business, but as a friend I'm concerned about something." Let him pace it from there.
Heck, phrase it even more diplomatically then that if you want to--"I was talking to my sister the other day, and she mentioned seeing a distinctive car parking in front of her house. I know it's none of my business, but it made me curious . . . "

Especially since I would not be surprised if the answer is that the best friend is aware of and unbothered by the visits when the best friend is out of town. I'm not saying he is for sure, and I'm not even saying that it's more likely than a scenario in which the wife is cheating with the visiting friend. But if there is cheating going on, it's not being very well hidden, and especially with the closeness of the best friend bond, I'm not seeing any great harm in mentioning it to the friend--except of course for the danger that someone may wish to shoot the messenger.

[wasson]

So far, several other people who've been cheated on have agreed with me - if you know of someone cheating, tell their partner. So far, no one who's been cheated on has said "don't bother telling me."
I think this is a huge part of what's going on here. I've also been cheated on, and afterwards had a couple of friends tell me they suspected something was going on, but didn't want to hurt my feelings to bring it up.

Instead I wasted a bunch of time and sleepless nights worrying and suspecting. I would have much preferred one of these friends to just say, "hey, no disrespect to your girlfriend or anything, but I ran into her and this guy at a bar the other night and it looked like something weird was going on.... Do you know the guy?"

A couple of my coworkers ran into her and him at a local place for lunch, and when they walked up to say hello to her, she got really strange and twitchy and immediately left the restaurant with the guy she was cheating with. No one told me about this incident until we'd already broken up due to the cheating. It would have made my life much easier if they'd have just spilled the beans... crude or cunning, however they're more comfortable doing it. I certainly wouldn't be offended by someone trying to be a good friend to me.

Tell your friend.

[ivylass]

Scumpup, just curious, because we've heard from several Dopers who were cheated on and they wish they'd been told. I'm wondering about your perspective...did you tell a friend and it turned out badly?

[Cheesesteak]

None of that applies because he doesn't know anything remotely like it. He heard from his sister, Mrs. Kravitz, about a car parked on the street and then he (or they) basically fabricated everything else from that.He heard from Kravitz that a particular car, belonging to a family friend, was parked overnight 1/2 block from the house only on days that the husband was out of town. It's a bit more than simply being parked on the street.

I am also noting with interest that everyone who's said "I've been cheated on" seems to be on the "tell the guy" side of this issue.

[DianaG]

I am also noting with interest that everyone who's said "I've been cheated on" seems to be on the "tell the guy" side of this issue.
I've been cheated on. With the exception of two or three people (ergo my "best friend exception" in this thread), I'd have preferred that everyone stay the hell out of my business.

[Swallowed My Cellphone]

or who start coming up with ways to "tell" the husband without really telling him so that you can maintain plausible deniability that you were meddling.It's not about "plausible deniability" it's asking a question when you're concerned, without making a serious but potentially erroneous accusation.

I'd be worried if there were indications that my best friend's wife was putting him at risk. I care about my buddy, and part of being his best freind is watching his back. If it turned out that his wife was cheating on him for months or years and I didn't say a word, that would be betrayal on my part. A question would put my mind at ease. And I would hope/assume there was a logical explanation.

When I was a kid, my dad took a family friend to a function. A few weeks later, a friend of my mom's asked how my dad knew "Sally"... his "date". There's three reasons why my mom's friend would ask a benign question: 1) She was concerned for my mom. 2) She wanted reassurance. 3) She was warning my mom that the rumor mill was churning.

My parents aren't stupid. You can totally assume that their friend was wondering about the gossip just as much as the next person, but at least she asked a question that assumed there was a logical explanation for seeing my dad out with another woman. My parents weren't pissed, no one thought it was shit-stirring.

If I know for 100% damn certainty that my buddy's wife is cheating, I'm going to tell him. If I'm just seeing stuff that I think is really weird/suspicious, then I think it's better to ask a question about it. If everything is on the up-and-up, then no worries, I'll be reassured without insulting his wife by jumping to conclusions. If it's not on the up-and-up, then he can look into it privately, still without me insulting his marriage.

ETA: If I wanted to let him know and totally be "cunning" about it, as you say, I could mail an anonymous letter.

[Scumpup]

He heard from Kravitz that a particular car, belonging to a family friend, was parked overnight 1/2 block from the house only on days that the husband was out of town. It's a bit more than simply being parked on the street.

I am also noting with interest that everyone who's said "I've been cheated on" seems to be on the "tell the guy" side of this issue.

She saw a car parked somewhere. That is all that the OP knows. Everything else is supposition or fabrication. That is precious little evidence on which to go accusing somebody who he calls a friend i.e. the wife of adultry. Seems like a pretty shitty friend to come to that conclusion so easily and on such little (2nd hand!) evidence.
Regardless, it isn't his marriage to attempt to save or destroy or anything else. What happens between a married couple is their business alone. Not best friends. Not sisters of best friends. Theirs.
Any time somebody starts a conversation by saying to me "You know, this may not be any of my business..." I immediately reply "You're right. It isn't So STFU."

But I could be wrong. What if it's Hitler she's dating? I guess you'd have a moral obligation to tattle on somebody who was committing adultry with Hitler, wouldn't you?

[ivylass]

You're right, what happens between a married couple is their business. However, you cannot always assume that one partner is fully aware of what the other is doing.

They may have an open marriage. Or, she may be cheating on her husband. As his best friend, who probably knows the situation pretty well, I think he has a good enough handle on the situation to recognize a red flag.

As most of the posters who have been cheated on have noted, they wished their friends had said something.

[Scumpup]

You're right, what happens between a married couple is their business. However, you cannot always assume that one partner is fully aware of what the other is doing.

They may have an open marriage. Or, she may be cheating on her husband. As his best friend, who probably knows the situation pretty well, I think he has a good enough handle on the situation to recognize a red flag.


And given that he doesn't know anything, really, that's justification for him to go blundering into their intimate private lives with his nebby sister's grubby suppositions?

[Ice Cream Man]

What happens between a married couple is their business alone. Not best friends. Not sisters of best friends. Theirs.


Is it their business alone if a man regularly beats his wife and she is too afraid to do anything about it? What if she is slowly poisoning him? In those cases it's clearly not just their business. So why not? Is it just because those two examples are illegal?

Do you see it as black and white? That anything one of them does to the other no matter how increasingly wrong is only their business until suddenly the action in question is illegal?

One way of looking at it is that marriage is a social and legal contract. Almost all wedding vows have the statement that they will be loyal/faithful in them. So by breaking those vows the wife is, in a sense, breaking the social contract she's made with her husband. So any rule about treating them as a private union is damaged.

Think about the possibilities. If she's cheating on him and he's unaware then he'll be glad to know about it! If she's not cheating then why would he get bent all out of shape over your concern. No matter how many times you use words like "fabrication" it's still very suspicious behaviour by any normal standards.

[Gary T]

She saw a car parked somewhere. That is all that the OP knows.No, it isn't. He also knows it's a distinct car belonging to a male mutual friend who parks right outside their house when he visits them, and it's consistently parked overnight half a block down the street from the house whenever the best friend happens to be out of town on work. Sure, there's some supposition involved in suspecting cheating, but the facts at hand, evaluated in combination, support that supposition rather strongly. "A car parked somewhere" doesn't begin to reflect the information available.

[Scumpup]

Unless you are party to a contract, whether the terms of it are abided by or not is none of your damn business. The OP is not. His sister absolutely is not. You can drag in as many red herrings and straw men as you like, wife beating for eexample, and that won't make him the OP a partner in the marriage. He, therefore, has no stake in whether the contract is followed. He and his sister need to butt out.

[Shamozzle]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Ok, a few things:
Anyone seen the friend go into or come out of that particular house? All I read was that he parks half a block up.
My sister saw him walk from the house to his car each morning. Now did she actually see him leave the house? No, but it seems to be beyond a reasonable doubt to me. It's unlikely that he popped out of a manhole right beside their house.

And just a note: It's not like my sister is hiding in the bushes like a spy. It's just that the way her kitchen is set up, she has a plain view of the street. And she's in the kitchen during the mornings.
You and your sister need to butt out of this other couple's marriage and stay out of it.
He's my best friend. If my best friend was in danger I would do my best to protect him. And vise versa. If his wife is cheating on him, then yea, he's in danger. Even from a practical sense with regard to STD's he would be in danger.

So, is his wife cheating on him? I don't know. But it kind of looks like it. So, it kind of looks like he is in danger. That gets me interested.
No marriage is improved by a third party acting as a shit-stirrer. In this case, since your sister is involving herself, two shit-stirrers.

See, now to me a 'shit-stirrer' is someone who likes to wind people up like toys and put them on the floor and watch them run into each other. Are you implying that this is my intent?


Honestly, what do you realistically hope to accomplish by inserting yourself into this situation? All you know is that a car is parking down the block from where your friends live. Actually, you don't even know that...you just heard it from your sister, who apparently has too much time on her hands if she's able to monitor who parks where and who is away on business.
First of all, I'm not inserting myself into anything. I don't want to be a part of this. I got handed some information and now I have to decide what it means, if anything, and what to do with it.

It is a fact that this guy (there is no doubt it is the guy) is parking his car a half a block away (there is no doubt it is his car) when he could have parked right in front of my best friend's house like he usually does. It is a fact that the car is parked overnight and that he walks from my best friend's house to his car and leaves early in the morning. It is a fact that this behavior only occurs when my best friend is out of town. It is highly likely that he is actually leaving their particular house and not popping out of a manhole or a space portal.

And, again, it is not like my sister is playing super-spy and hiding in the bushes. She happens to know of my best friend and his wife. She happens to know of their friend with the car. From her kitchen, where she lives all morning, she has a plain view of the street and its length. She happened to plainly observe what I've described. That's all.


Let's play a little what-if game. Describe how you imagine this all playing out if you go carrying the story to the husband. Please include how you picture the wife, who you also claim as a friend, is going to react.
Hell, I don't know. Hence my trepidation and my posting on this board to pick your fine minds.

Are you quite sure that your friend is really out of town for "work"? And work alone?Yes.

[Ice Cream Man]

Unless you are party to a contract, whether the terms of it are abided by or not is none of your damn business. The OP is not. His sister absolutely is not. You can drag in as many red herrings and straw men as you like, wife beating for eexample, and that won't make him the OP a partner in the marriage. He, therefore, has no stake in whether the contract is followed. He and his sister need to butt out.

My examples were not straw men. I was making the point that there are certain things that can go on between a married couple where the importance of having a private relationship is over powered by the wrongness of what is being done. It's too simplistic to think of things as just black and white where it's ALWAYS right to stay out of it unless it's something illegal. There is a gradient of appropriateness in "butting in" depending on what's happening and what's at stake.

[Cat Fight]

As with the thread about the wife getting sexually harassed at work, this thread is a pretty good example of how different people see their marriages (or marriages in general). As a full-on partnership, as a provider/provided for pairing, as one of many strong relationships in each member's life...

[Slainte]

Shamozzle,

I was in the unenviable position of finding out that my step-mom was likely cheating on my dad. I debated if/how I should tell him what I suspected was happening. I decided if the situation were reversed, I'd want him to tell me.

I ended up telling him. It turned out to be true. He also chose to (eventually) reconcile with her.

I'm glad I told him (as hard as it was to do so) and he's glad I did (as hard as it was to hear).

[Rubystreak]

He, therefore, has no stake in whether the contract is followed.

Depends what you mean by "stake." If my best friend's partner was cheating on him, and that fucked up my friend, that would definitely be of great concern to me. I don't know about you, but my best friend is the closest person in the world to me, outside of my husband and my father. And he is certainly privy to things about me that they are not by virtue of our decades of closeness predicated on total honesty and mutual sharing of information.

I could not keep something like this from him, because while Shamozzle has no proof, ie., he has not seen them fucking, the circumstantial evidence is definitely something worthy of concern. It would feel so incredibly wrong to me, disloyal and craven, to avoid telling him. I would try to tell him in the most non-prejudicial way possible and let him do what he wanted with the information.

And yeah, I know how he would react. He had a boyfriend who I thought was emotionally abusive of him and possibly unfaithful. When my suspicions reached critical mass, I told him. He listened, but still dated the guy for another year, then wound up getting totally fucked over by him. I helped him pick up the pieces.

At the risk of sounding corny, that's what friends are for. You are honest with them and then accept whatever they do with that information even if you don't understand it or like it. If that's really your best friend, he will understand that your motives are not to stir up shit but are in the interest of loyalty and full disclosure. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd hope that my friend would tell me.

[KSO]

You said you're also friends with the wife. Maybe you should talk to her before you go to your best friend with your suspicions.

FWIW, if I knew for certain that a friend was being cheated on, and the cheater was also a friend of mine, I would go to the cheater and tell him/her to fess up and that if he/she didn't, I would tell my friend everything.

[TheLoadedDog]

The longer this thread goes on, the more convinced I am that there is a deep-seated desire to meddle in the affairs of others in the human psyche.

I'm not so sure. If you read the example I gave on page one of this thread, I'm in a position where I truly would rather not know, and I didn't seek the information out (he telephoned me) and I've been agonising over it and holding off over it.

[Shamozzle]

You said you're also friends with the wife. Maybe you should talk to her before you go to your best friend with your suspicions.

FWIW, if I knew for certain that a friend was being cheated on, and the cheater was also a friend of mine, I would go to the cheater and tell him/her to fess up and that if he/she didn't, I would tell my friend everything.

I've thought of this.

I thought my angle might be that it is grossly unfair to my best friend for her to do what it seems she is doing. I would suggest that if she is unhappy (which I assume is the reason most people cheat) then she needs to handle it some other way. Maybe they could get some counseling or maybe the relationship needs to be over. I don't know.

I definitely would be very non-threatening if I approached her. I certainly wouldn't give her any ultimatums or try and force her to do anything. I think that would be dangerous territory. The best I would try for would be to talk some sense into her.

[Uncommon Sense]

None of that applies because he doesn't know anything remotely like it. He heard from his sister, Mrs. Kravitz, about a car parked on the street and then he (or they) basically fabricated everything else from that.
Fine, I'll give you that at that point in the thread.
But since then the OP has re-assured us that he's certain that it's the same guy and the same car and that the hubby is out of town.
If this guy was your best friend how long would you wait to talk to him or how much evidence would you need to be convinced? Why would he park down the street unless something weird was going on? I'm sure they're not having overnighters planning his 40th birthday party or anything like that while he's gone.
He'd park in the driveway otherwise.
The wedding contract is likely being broken by her at this point. Now it's bros before hoes. That's a binding contract between best friends that's secondary to the wedding vows.

[Cheesesteak]

I've been cheated on. With the exception of two or three people (ergo my "best friend exception" in this thread), I'd have preferred that everyone stay the hell out of my business.This is fair. In a slightly altered situation, if Mrs Kravits was asking if she should contact her neighbor (whom she doesn't know all that well) about the weird behavior, we would say to butt out. She doesn't know enough about his business on her own to make that call.

[phouka]

I can't help but feel that we're talking at cross-purposes, especially with the mention of shit-stirring.

Someone who stirs up shit is deliberately trying to create drama or conflict for their own gratification. Of course that's wrong, and in my little world, it's good reason to end a friendship. No one needs a friend who thinks making groundless accusations of infidelity against your spouse is a good way to start the weekend.

But that's not what we're talking about here.

Shamozzle has verifiable information from a source he trusts. The behavior shown is questionable and suspicious. Certainly, there might be other explanations, some of them completely innocent, and those explanations should be taken into account.

I'm not advocating that Shamozzle, or anyone else for that matter, storm in, screaming "J'accuse!" Instead, I agree with the approaches offered by Eureka and tdn. Tell your friend what you know, but don't draw any conclusions. Leave that part up to them. That isn't stirring up shit. That's giving your friend what they need to take care of themselves and their marriage. If your friend then tells you to butt out, that's what you do.

All I can think is that the "friends" who betrayed me when they heard my boyfriend, his lover, and her boyfriend talking about the fact that he was cheating his employer out of his wages and spending his days with them, exploring twosomes, threesomes, and bi-sexuality, is that they were enjoying the drama too much to disrupt it. Perhaps that's not technically shit-stirring, but it's a close relative.

They could have told me. I would have taken a much harder look at my boyfriend's behavior, and I would have gotten myself tested. I might very well have been able to prevent the bout of PID I experienced.

The consequences aren't always a miserable breakup or an angry friend. He could have, for instance, given me an incurable STD, like herpes or AIDS. What he did do, because he chose to have unprotected sex outside of our relationship without my knowledge or consent, was compromise or perhaps eliminate my ability to conceive and carry a child to term safely. PID has a nasty habit of causing scar tissue, and that scar tissue can block the fallopian tubes, causing complete infertility or a greatly increased chance of a tubal pregnancy.

It would be a lot easier to face the fact that I might not be able to have children if I knew my friends had at least tried to protect me. But, because they didn't want to be labeled "shit-stirrers" or put themselves in the uncomfortable position of eliminating my illusions of fidelity or risk my anger, his anger, or their anger, or maybe even give up some fun-fun drama, I never had the chance to protect myself.

So, now, if I even want to consider getting pregnant, I have to go through an extremely painful, expensive procedure where a doctor injects dye through my cervix and into my uterus to determine the extent of the scar tissue my boyfriend's infidelity left me. If I want to get pregnant, I will have to, literally, chance severe hemorraghing and possibly death from a tubal pregnancy.

Those are the consequences of silence.

[Ruby]

phouka, I hope you can understand the difference between your situation and the OP's question.

Your so-called mutual friends KNEW that your SO was cheating on you. He freely admitted it in front of them and they shared that you were being kept in the dark. Those so-called friends still chose to not speak up. Those were not your friends. I cannot imagine the pain that you felt knowing the betrayal that these "friends" caused.

In the OP's situation, he has some third-hand circumstantial evidence that some dude is parking his car a half block away from his best friend's house. That's all he KNOWS. Does it look suspicious? Hell yes. Is it enough for him to run to his best friend and question his wife's fidelity? Well, we obviously have a lot of different opinions on that point.

My general advice is to mind your own damn business. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. You are not a party to their commitment (or lack of) to each other. Unless you are 100% positive, you have no right to insert your little drama into their lives.

I do believe that there is an innate nature in people to get involved where they have no business. Whether it's a twisted desire to feel important or they are just plain old Drama Queens or Shit Stirrers, there seems to be a great human need to get involved.

You're right, we do come from different places. I've been on the wrongly accused end of infidelity. Some "well meaning" friend went to another friend with her "suspicions" about me and her partner. All were unfounded but being the Shit Stirrer that she is, I think she took great pleasure in watching it unfold in front of her and then try to insert herself as a "Knight in Shining Armor" to ride in and save the day. The relationship that I was accused of being in the middle of was rocky before the accusation and remains rocky today. But a lot of friendships were lost along the way.

There's obviously no right answer because each situation is different. The OP will have to decide if the information that he has is worthy of mention.

[Cat Whisperer]

I think Judge Judy says it best; if you can't prove it, it didn't happen. My best advice in this situation would be to go to your best friend with only the facts that you *know* and let him go from there.

[even sven]

Put me on the record as one who would rather not be told if I was being cheated on. I kind of expect that cheating will happen at some point in many relationships, and that nothing will be served by me spending all day thinking "Is she prettier than me?"

[groo]

Rather than suggesting cheating, you might simply mention that you saw the "distinct car" in the neighborhood and was wondering if the "male mutual friend" was visiting.This.

Also, I think you need to confirm it is the man you think it is before you say anything at all - could your sister take a picture of him from her window? Not to show the husband, just so that you can be 100% sure that it's him.

Then butt right out of it, leave it for him to take any action if he wants to.I agree. (Verify this behavior) and tell him just the facts: it seems weird that the friend parks a half a block away & walks over to the house. Don't imply anything about cheating; that gets you into a position of having to argue something that you don't know factually.

On a slightly related note, a friend married a woman who seemed to insult him way too often, in public, without apparent humorous intent. I said nothing. After the marriage crashed-and-burned, he expressed anger that another friend said he'd thought the marriage was doomed from the start, but only told him after the marriage failed. I still haven't told him that I held the same opinion. That's a sticky situation, and I don't know what I'd do if I saw another proto-marriage embarking on the Titanic, because I don't know what will or would happen in the future.

[Green Cymbeline]

Put me on the record as one who would rather not be told if I was being cheated on. I kind of expect that cheating will happen at some point in many relationships, and that nothing will be served by me spending all day thinking "Is she prettier than me?"So, in other words, ignorance is bliss? You have no problem being cheated on behind your back and not knowing, and going on like everything is hunky-dory? (While in the meantime your partner is boinking other people and possibly spreading diseases to you...)

[gonzomax]

Maybe they are getting together to plan a surprise party for your friend.

[Gary T]

After the marriage crashed-and-burned, he expressed anger that another friend said he'd thought the marriage was doomed from the start, but only told him after the marriage failed. I still haven't told him that I held the same opinion. That's a sticky situation, and I don't know what I'd do if I saw another proto-marriage embarking on the Titanic, because I don't know what will or would happen in the future.If you told him now, you can be pretty sure that your friend would be upset with you for not telling him before the marriage. You can be just as sure that if you had told him before the marriage, he would have been upset with you, possibly cutting off contact. I don't think there's any way to win in this type of situation other what you have been doing - keep your mouth shut before, during, and after the marriage.

Now, if someone has married disastrously before and appears to be headed there again, I think you can gently observe that Mary seems a lot like Sue, in the hope that your friend may give some thought to being caught in a bad pattern. It would need to be done quite carefully though, for there's a risk of alienating someone who perceives that his judgment is being denigrated.

[Cervaise]

He also knows it's a distinct car belonging to a male mutual friend who parks right outside their house when he visits them, and it's consistently parked overnight half a block down the street from the house whenever the best friend happens to be out of town on work. Sure, there's some supposition involved in suspecting cheating, but the facts at hand, evaluated in combination, support that supposition rather strongly.For all we know, the guy is parking up the street so he can sneak over to the house, peek in the windows, and spank it behind the roses.

[Jodi]

Heck, phrase it even more diplomatically then that if you want to--"I was talking to my sister the other day, and she mentioned seeing a distinctive car parking in front of her house. I know it's none of my business, but it made me curious . . . "

I would go (and have gone) one step beyond this, which is to present myself as so stupid / clueless I don't really get the importance of what I'm saying:

"This is so weird! You know the red '67 Mustang Joe drives? My sister keeps seeing a guy with almost the identical car! You know, my sister who lives four doors down from you? Yeah, some guy keeps parking his red Mustang in front of her house. It was there all weekend last weekend. It's kinda pissing her off, having some stranger park overnight in front of her house so often. Anyway, how was Boise [where you were, all last weekend]?"

Sometimes it is worthwhile to be thick as two bricks, is all I'm saying. ("Who was that blonde Steve was out with last night? Was it his cousin or something? She seemed so friendly!") You convey the facts, but you draw no conclusions. None. It must be a coincidence! That way, you don't embarrass your friend; you tell him what you know; and his wife can't be pissed that you butted into her business because, huh!, you didn't know it had anything to do with her. I am generally no fan of people playing dumb, but if I can convey an unpleasant message through benign, blundering stupidity while keeping myself out of the situation, I will do so. And I recommend it.

[Santo Rugger]

For all we know, the guy is parking up the street so he can sneak over to the house, peek in the windows, and spank it behind the roses.

Ugh, I caught a guy in this situation before. My girlfriend at the time's sister's husband would park half a mile from the house, and look in the curtains. I thought they were crazy when they brought it up, laughing it off. Until I was at a friends house studying for a calculus final, and took the back road home through the ditch, because it was much closer from his house. I saw his Bronco parked, and thought, "Oh, No!"

I told my buddy to wait by the Bronco, and not let anybody leave. I started walking towards the house, and saw him walking back towards his vehicle. "What are you doing?" I asked him. "Out for a run," he said. "What the hell? You've got sandals on?!"

Turns out there were footprints in the back, and those sandals mysteriously disappeared from his wardrobe after that. Weird.

[Eureka]

I am generally no fan of people playing dumb, but if I can convey an unpleasant message through benign, blundering stupidity while keeping myself out of the situation, I will do so. And I recommend it.
I like it--and the rest of your post. But I especially like it in this case because there is a part of me which strongly suspects that the husband knows about the visits and doesn't mind--but doesn't neccessarily want to explain the situation to anyone else. So playing dumb like this gives you and the husband some plausible deniability "Wow! There's two people in the neighborhood with red mustangs!" while also pointing out that um, if parking down the street is an attempt to be discreet, it's not working so well.

[Shamozzle]

Maybe they are getting together to plan a surprise party for your friend.
For all we know, the guy is parking up the street so he can sneak over to the house, peek in the windows, and spank it behind the roses.

Overnight, and leaving in the morning?

[Guestimate]

Let me tell you something....My last boyfriend cheated on me, not for long even, before he broke up with me SHE insisted (how nice). A couple of months later I finally went to a doctor to find out what the hell was wrong with me. Herpes.
It was almost five years ago. I haven't dated anyone since. I probably never will. I already was fucked up, this was the last straw for me. I'm now just ... living.

If you love your friend, verify the facts of the situation (is it THAT car?)
and then help your friend.

I'm crying now wishing I could have been spared this, if I would have known he was fucking someone else I wouldn't have gotten this.

[Cat Whisperer]

Ugh, I caught a guy in this situation before. My girlfriend at the time's sister's husband would park half a mile from the house, and look in the curtains. I thought they were crazy when they brought it up, laughing it off. Until I was at a friends house studying for a calculus final, and took the back road home through the ditch, because it was much closer from his house. I saw his Bronco parked, and thought, "Oh, No!"

I told my buddy to wait by the Bronco, and not let anybody leave. I started walking towards the house, and saw him walking back towards his vehicle. "What are you doing?" I asked him. "Out for a run," he said. "What the hell? You've got sandals on?!"

Turns out there were footprints in the back, and those sandals mysteriously disappeared from his wardrobe after that. Weird.
I don't quite follow this; who was doing what at whose window?

[Ferret Herder]

I don't quite follow this; who was doing what at whose window?
I think he meant that the husband of his girlfriend's sister would come over to the girlfriend's (and Santo's) house and whack off while peeping at her.

[Lust4Life]

It could be that your best friend has asked this other bloke to stay over when hes away because his wife doesn't feel safe on her own.

I say this because in the past several of my best mates have actually asked me to do this and I most definitely didn't sleep with their other halves but I still got plenty of attention from the neighbourhood curtain twitchers in the mornings as I left.

Ask the family friend casually if he knows one of the neighbours down the street as your sister might know them so if he IS doing the dirty it'll warn him off.

Otherwise stay out of it,if it turns out that theres nothing going on but you've put distrust into your friends mind it could destroy the marriage anyway.

I understand how the poster who's partner was being unfaithful and friends in the know didn't tell them feels angry and bitter but all too often the people who actually KNEW about the affair in reality probably only had clues and suspicions up until the thing went public and then its a case of "I KNEW all of the time something was going on "

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

If everytime people suspected infedelity in a persons spouse they went up to the partner with their suspicions"They never came into work yesterday,they keep talking to one particular member of the O.S.,they've started paying more attention to their appearance etc" the spouse would get pretty fed up with what were probably a number of false alarms.

Only the people who are actually in the marriage know what is really going on in their relationship no matter how good your intentions are.

[greatshakes]

No marriage is improved by a third party acting as a shit-stirrer. In this case, since your sister is involving herself, two shit-stirrers.
Honestly, what do you realistically hope to accomplish by inserting yourself into this situation? All you know is that a car is parking down the block from where your friends live. Actually, you don't even know that...you just heard it from your sister, who apparently has too much time on her hands if she's able to monitor who parks where and who is away on business.
Let's play a little what-if game. Describe how you imagine this all playing out if you go carrying the story to the husband. Please include how you picture the wife, who you also claim as a friend, is going to react.
I think that this is totally unrealistic and needlessly antagonistic towards the OP. Actually, he said that the boyfriend has a distinct car, and the sister said what happened. There is no reason to be so insulting. You have no reason to doubt any of this...the OP is certainly bright enough to be able to sort out what is and what isn't fact. You are being unfair to the sister, and you have no right to be so snotty about what she does with her time.

To the OP:
To tell the friend the facts is incumbent on a friend. It may be difficult, but if somebody ends up hating your guts, you are well rid of them. What, should one want to be friends with a woman that cuckolds her own husband (YOUR GOOD FRIEND)!!! If your friend takes offense, and turns on you, think how little the cost was to flush this weak twerp out of your life!
If your friend is unaware, then you will have done him a great service. His embarrassment won't be one millionth of the utter shame and pain that a later revelation will yield. His life may well be at risk. If they do patch up the marriage, and totally dis you, you have done a good deed, and they would show themselves to be ingrates, which you don't need in your life.

Please be sure, OP, to let us know the end result.

Again, if this is a REAL friend, you will be sorry if you don't give him the heads up.

[greatshakes]

It could be that your best friend has asked this other bloke to stay over when hes away because his wife doesn't feel safe on her own.

I say this because in the past several of my best mates have actually asked me to do this and I most definitely didn't sleep with their other halves
Where did you park?

[Lust4Life]

Where did you park?

Where I live there is so much on road parking that you grab any space that is remotely close to where your going,on some occasions this means that you might just as well walk to your destination as your parking spot is the same distance further past where you're going as it is from your house.

[Cheesesteak]

Where I live there is so much on road parking that you grab any space that is remotely close to where your going,on some occasions this means that you might just as well walk to your destination as your parking spot is the same distance further past where you're going as it is from your house.Curious that this issue only comes up when the husband is out of town, because it was stated in the OP that this guy parks right in front of the house whenever he visits both of them.

[Cat Whisperer]

I agree; it's the parking down the street that makes this look much more suspicious. He's acting furtive; that makes it look like he's hiding something.

Lust4Life, people around your area actually ask men to stay over with their wives when they're out of town because they're afraid? What war zone do you people live in? This is completely outside of my experience. If my husband asked a buddy to come stay with me because he was out of town, I would be completely floored by such a bizarre request.

[Lust4Life]

I agree; it's the parking down the street that makes this look much more suspicious. He's acting furtive; that makes it look like he's hiding something.

Lust4Life, people around your area actually ask men to stay over with their wives when they're out of town because they're afraid? What war zone do you people live in? This is completely outside of my experience. If my husband asked a buddy to come stay with me because he was out of town, I would be completely floored by such a bizarre request.

Not people around my area but very good mates/colleagues who would literally trust me with their lives and vice versa.

Now you mention it there was no real threat,at the times I just assumed that their missuses felt nervous though one of them got me to paint their garage roof something my mate had been using stalling tactics on doing for about six months.

Maybe I was there to PREVENT a backdoor man coming to visit,until your post I'd never thought about it!

[Cat Whisperer]

It hadn't occurred to me that the wives might be the ones asking for the company. (Get someone over to paint the garage roof? Brilliant! So, where exactly do you live, Lust4Life? :D )

[slanted zipper]

Do NOT talk to the wife first. If she is cheating, and thinks you might spill the beans, she will likely start telling her husband about you showing an unusual interest in her, so any attempt by you to warm him will result in you looking like you are trying to 'cover' for yourself.

[Scumpup]

Do NOT talk to the wife first.

Half good advice. Don't talk to the husband, either. No matter how much the other wanna-be private eyes here stroke your fanny, this still won't be your business.

[Acsenray]

Seriously, Scumpup, your position here is entirely irrational. You've been asked once before what exactly is your personal experience that is behind this position. Give it up (meaning, clue us in). Otherwise you just sound like the back door man who wants the world to help him do his nasty.

Nobody is saying the OP should go to the friend and say, "Your wife is definitely screwing around." No one is saying he should interfere in his friend's marital relationship. He should tell the OP what his sister has seen. If the OP's friend knows about it either because it's entirely innocent or because he has an open relationship with his wife, then no harm is done. If the OP's friend is in the dark, then the OP has done the right thing by cluing him in. No part of that constitutes "interference."

[Scumpup]

My position is based on the fact that nobody but husband and wife are partners in a marriage. That is entirely rational. Anybody interfering in that partnership, no matter how altruistic he rationalizes his motives to be, is treading where he doesn't belong.
Let me put it this way, if you came to me and told me my wife was cheating on me, I'd quite likely combination punch you right in the mouth for two reasons:
1. Insulting my wife that way.
2. Presuming to interfere in our marriage.
Can I make it any clearer? BTW, you can feel free to retract your insinuation that I am a cheater.

[Scumpup]

Those of you who don't even want to blatantly interfere, but only plant seeds of suspiscion and doubt in the husband's mind, are particularly to be avoided as friends.

[Acsenray]

My position is based on the fact that nobody but husband and wife are partners in a marriage. That is entirely rational.

No, that's not rational. That's tautological. A marriage between two people is by definition a partnership between two people. Your statement has absolutely no persuasive import with regard to the question on the table.

Anybody interfering in that partnership, no matter how altruistic he rationalizes his motives to be, is treading where he doesn't belong.

Again, this is a tautological statement. You fail to offer any analysis regarding how it applies in this case. No one has advised the OP to "interfere." They have simply said that, as a friend, he is obligated to convey information to the friend.

Let me put it this way, if you came to me and told me my wife was cheating on me, I'd quite likely combination punch you right in the mouth for two reasons:
1. Insulting my wife that way.
2. Presuming to interfere in our marriage.

All that shows is that you have no appreciation for friendship and a diminished capacity for rational dealing.

Can I make it any clearer?

Yes, you can. Unless you find a way to explain your position, you may feel free to stop repeating yourself.

BTW, you can feel free to retract your insinuation that I am a cheater.

Since I haven't insinuated anything of the kind, I retract nothing. I simply characterized the impression that your comments create.

[Green Cymbeline]

My position is based on the fact that nobody but husband and wife are partners in a marriage. That is entirely rational. Anybody interfering in that partnership, no matter how altruistic he rationalizes his motives to be, is treading where he doesn't belong.
Let me put it this way, if you came to me and told me my wife was cheating on me, I'd quite likely combination punch you right in the mouth for two reasons:
1. Insulting my wife that way.
2. Presuming to interfere in our marriage.
Can I make it any clearer? BTW, you can feel free to retract your insinuation that I am a cheater.
So, in other words, if you suspect that one spouse is abusing or harming the other spouse, or a child, just zip your lips and stay out of it?

At many weddings I have been to, part of the wedding ceremony is a speech by the minister or priest about how we (the audience), as the family and friends of the couple, have a duty to support them and help them in their marriage.

To me, cheating on a spouse is a form of abuse... so you better believe I would intervene if it were a family member or best friend. For me, as a best friend (or mother/father, sister/brother, etc.) my first loyalty and duty is to that person - to make sure they are safe and not being abused, swindled, cheated on, or otherwise harmed. If I gain knowledge that harm is taking place, of course I am going to do whatever I can to stop that harm.

There's got to be something in your history that is coloring your opinion, Scumpup, because it's just not logical. :dubious:

[slanted zipper]

Disagree. I would wish someone would tell me if a husband was cheating. You always suspect, but confirmation is a good thing. WHo wants to be stupid?

[Intravenus De Milo]

Those of you who don't even want to blatantly interfere, but only plant seeds of suspiscion and doubt in the husband's mind, are particularly to be avoided as friends.Well, aren't we a cheery fellow. Seriously, why the bitterness?

My position is based on the fact that nobody but husband and wife are partners in a marriage. That is entirely rational. Anybody interfering in that partnership, no matter how altruistic he rationalizes his motives to be, is treading where he doesn't belong.Okay, I could see an objection on grounds if someone was advising the OP to go to their friend and say, for example, "Your wife is a cheating 'ho, you should drop her like a bad habit, here let me drive you to the divorce lawyer," etc. But no one is suggesting that the OP advise his friend on a specific course of action in the event of marital infidelity. It will be up to the friend how to proceed with the information he is given, and obviously no one is going to know the correct course but him and his wife. I think the OP has many reasons to be concerned about his friend - he doesn't want him to continue to be hurt by infidelity, he doesn't want to see him put at risk for STDs, and so forth. The STD reason alone IMO trumps any emotional problems one might face, because while time might heal feelings, it cannot heal things like herpes or, at worst, HIV.

Let me put it this way, if you came to me and told me my wife was cheating on me, I'd quite likely combination punch you right in the mouth for two reasons:
1. Insulting my wife that way.
2. Presuming to interfere in our marriage.And what if it turned out that your wife WAS cheating on you? Would you punch her as well?

Seriously, if your marriage is secure enough to the point where infidelity is an absolute non-issue, then more power to you. However, this is not the case in many marriages, and sometimes signs of infidelity are only visible either in hindsight or by a third party. And no, not all third party perspective comes about as a result of people trying to play Dick Tracy. It's no more polite for you to assume that of the people on this board than for someone else to assume that you've been on the cheating end of a relationship, frankly.

And let's make no mistake here: the people who "interfere" with marriages the most are those who carry on affairs with those who are married. Whether or not this is the case in the OP's example is not known, but what I'm getting a sense of is definitely friendly concern, not a morbid desire to wreck a healthy relationship just for the hell of it.

[Rubystreak]

My position is based on the fact that nobody but husband and wife are partners in a marriage. That is entirely rational. Anybody interfering in that partnership, no matter how altruistic he rationalizes his motives to be, is treading where he doesn't belong.
Let me put it this way, if you came to me and told me my wife was cheating on me, I'd quite likely combination punch you right in the mouth for two reasons:
1. Insulting my wife that way.
2. Presuming to interfere in our marriage.
Can I make it any clearer? BTW, you can feel free to retract your insinuation that I am a cheater.

Lemme put it to you this way: imagine that your wife is cheating on you (but don't punch me for creating an imaginary scenario). Your best friend sees her in flagrante, doing something that makes it clear that she is violating your marriage vows. You would not want him to tell you? Would you praise him later for his discretion, after she gave you herpes? What about if she conceived a child, and told you it was yours? And you only found out years later it was someone else's kid?

That last scenario happened to a friend of my husband's. And guess what? He's still paying child support on that other man's kid. I guarantee that he'd beg to differ with your POV on this.

[Scumpup]

I wouldn't be married to my wife if I didn't love and trust her. Spouse trumps friend.

Do let's avoid discussing such hypotheticals as anybody being caught in the act because that isn't what happened for the OP and therefore it is not germane. This whole discussion is based on what, if anything, the OP should do based on the flimsy evidence passed to him by his sister. Stick to the topic, people.

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I'd likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.

[Cheesesteak]

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I'd likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.I wonder how you'd react when you found out your wife was porking your buddy 3 times a night when you're away on business.

Would you at least apologize to your friend who tried to warn you, and got punched in the mouth for his concern? Assuming of course that your murder trial doesn't get in the way.

[Uncommon Sense]

I wouldn't be married to my wife if I didn't love and trust her. Spouse trumps friend.

Do let's avoid discussing such hypotheticals as anybody being caught in the act because that isn't what happened for the OP and therefore it is not germane. This whole discussion is based on what, if anything, the OP should do based on the flimsy evidence passed to him by his sister. Stick to the topic, people.

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I'd likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.

I can appreciate your support for your wife and the position you take on marriage, but on the other hand I can't see how you'd be so put off by a concern from your best friend. Also, it seems that if your trust for your wife was so rock-solid that a legitimate concern from a seemingly genuine friend wouldn't disturb you so much.
Something is off kilter here.
Nobody's perfect, eventually everyone makes mistakes that hurt those they love without wanting to hurt them. It seems you need to be more prepared when something like that happens.
;)

[Gary T]

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult.That's wonderful, but what does that have to do with the price of wheat?

No one is suggesting accusing the wife. What's being suggested is advising hubby of the evidence, which I would hardly call tenuous.

[Aangelica]

I think Jodi has the right of it.

For all we know, the buddy was crashing on the couch because he and his own spouse had a fight and she kicked him out for the weekend. Or they were repainting and he couldn't stand the fumes. Or the couple has an open but discrete marriage and the husband knows all about the buddy's visits and is fine with it. Or any number of other explanations that do not involve the wife being a cheating ho.

While I see Scumpup's underlying point that it's really nobody but the couple's business, I have to say that if it were me, even if there were a totally innocent explanation, I'd want my friends to care enough about me to apprise me of information that may be relevant. Hopefully in the tactful faux-thick-as-a-brick fashion Jodi suggests, but I'd be willing to look past a less-tactful approach and understand that my friend was just worried about me.

[TokyoBayer]

Ior all we know, the buddy was crashing on the couch because he and his own spouse had a fight and she kicked him out for the weekend. Or they were repainting and he couldn't stand the fumes. Or the couple has an open but discrete marriage and the husband knows all about the buddy's visits and is fine with it. Or any number of other explanations that do not involve the wife being a cheating ho.When we read the OP again, Now, whenever my best friend happens to be out of town on work, it turns out that this friend of theirs continues to visit their house. But on theses occasions he decides to park half a block down the street. Overnight, with him leaving in the morning. Ugh.
(bolding mine)This makes the difference for me, that it's reported as everytime. If it were once or twice, then I could see some of these other senerios, but that frequency would bother me.

If they did have an open marriage, then this wouldn't be a shock to the husband. If there is another innocent explanation, then it can easily solved.

[Cat Whisperer]

It's the parking down the block that turns this from "staying overnight to keep the wife company" into something that your friend needs to know about. That one little detail turns this from something that I could see as innocent into something that just doesn't look innocent any more - why act guilty if you have nothing to hide? If the husband (or wife) asked you to stay over to help his wife feel safe, you park in front of the house.

[Scumpup]

That's wonderful, but what does that have to do with the price of wheat?

No one is suggesting accusing the wife. What's being suggested is advising hubby of the evidence, which I would hardly call tenuous.

Are we reading the same thread? Please explain how this is NOT an accusation of the wife whether in the form of an outright "I think your wife is getting it on with Schlongy" or the more pernicious method of seeding the husband's mind with doubt. If the folks who think they need to involve themselves don't believe she is guilty of adultery, why are they so insistent that the husband must be told? Sheer love of shit-stirring?

Once again, trust and love of a spouse trumps trust and love of outsiders.

[Cervaise]

Once again, trust and love of a spouse trumps trust and love of outsiders.On the one hand, regarding your wife, you're blinded by love; on the other hand, regarding concerns of infidelity, you're blinded by rage. Either way, you're feeling first, and thinking second, or not at all. Hardly a healthy attitude.

[Gary T]

Are we reading the same thread? Please explain how this is NOT an accusation of the wife whether in the form of an outright "I think your wife is getting it on with Schlongy" or the more pernicious method of seeding the husband's mind with doubt. If the folks who think they need to involve themselves don't believe she is guilty of adultery, why are they so insistent that the husband must be told? Sheer love of shit-stirring?Of course there is the thought that the wife is getting it on. WITH GOOD REASON. We believe the OP should tell the husband because the evidence at hand overwhelmingly points to a situation that offers significant harm to his friend, and given that evidence the OP would be remiss in not giving his friend an opportunity to stave off or reduce said harm.

While you seem to be zealously focused on the notion of shit-stirring, I don't see where anyone else responding to this thread has that in mind. What I do see is the thought that it's in the husbands best interests to be apprised of the evidence. And even though the importance of the evidence is that cheating is suspected, there's still a significant difference between saying "I think your wife is cheating" and saying "Schlongy's car is parked overnight down the street from your house whenever you're out of town."

Once again, trust and love of a spouse trumps trust and love of outsiders.Sure, but that trust and love is between the husband and wife, not between the OP and husband. It's the husband's call what to do with the evidence in the context of his marriage. The OP faces the decision of whether to present the evidence in the context of a friendship.

[Intravenus De Milo]

I wouldn't be married to my wife if I didn't love and trust her. Spouse trumps friend.

Do let's avoid discussing such hypotheticals as anybody being caught in the act because that isn't what happened for the OP and therefore it is not germane. This whole discussion is based on what, if anything, the OP should do based on the flimsy evidence passed to him by his sister. Stick to the topic, people.

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I'd likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.Again, if your marriage is secure to the point where there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE IN HELL NO WAY of infidelity, then good for you. Assuming that this is the case with every other single marriage is rather naive. Assuming that people never take advantage of their spouse's vows of trust and unconditional love to have an affair is extremely naive. And assuming that anyone who is suspicious and is concerned for the health and well-being of a friend instead has ulterior motives to wantonly destroy a healthy relationship for no reason is insulting.

Look, in the long run, the only one on this board who knows about the situation well enough to make a decision about what to do is the OP. He knows the parties involved. He knows the dynamics that are already in place. And what registers as "unusual" behavior with him might not seem highly unusual to some on paper, but that's because we don't live in the same environment and situation as him. The OP has apparently seen some things that he cannot "unsee", or put off as mere coincidence considering the factors involved. He's not, as I see it, actively snooping around and aiming to hurt his friend with a "venomous tongue". He's concerned for his friend and doesn't want to see him continue to be hurt if there is indeed something fishy going on.

[tdn]

I repeat, if you accused my wife of cheating based on such tenuous "evidence," I would punch your lights out for the insult. If you tried to poison my mind against her, I'd likely still punch your lights out and I would scorn you for your venomous tongue.
While others may see your attitude as being very devoted to your loving wife, I see something else going on here. It has been said again and again that it might be a good idea to simply present the evidence as observed, coming from a frame of friendship. The only way you seem to be able to interpret it as blind accusations against your wife's fidelity. You fail to see it in any other light. And any attempt to challenge your rose-colored world triggers extreme rage and violence in you.

IANAP, but could it be that deep down you are not as convinced of your wife's fidelity as you'd wish? Keep in mind that I'm not accusing HER of anything, but it seems like you might have an issue that needs to be addressed.

[Scumpup]

Save the armchair psychoanalysis, tdn. You do it poorly.

[tdn]

Save the armchair psychoanalysis, tdn. You do it poorly.
Hey, you know, I hope I'm dead wrong about it. But your reaction seems really out of proportion. Seriously, if a friend was concerned about your marriage, your first reaction would be to resort to violence? That does not sound normal to me.

[Shirley Ujest]

Let me tell you something....My last boyfriend cheated on me, not for long even, before he broke up with me SHE insisted (how nice). A couple of months later I finally went to a doctor to find out what the hell was wrong with me. Herpes.
It was almost five years ago. I haven't dated anyone since. I probably never will. I already was fucked up, this was the last straw for me. I'm now just ... living.

If you love your friend, verify the facts of the situation (is it THAT car?)
and then help your friend.

I'm crying now wishing I could have been spared this, if I would have known he was fucking someone else I wouldn't have gotten this.

Guesstimate Thank you for sharing your heartache with us.

[Santo Rugger]

So, any update, Shamozzle?


I don't quite follow this; who was doing what at whose window?

This:


I think he meant that the husband of his girlfriend's sister would come over to the girlfriend's (and Santo's) house and whack off while peeping at her.

Sorry, I didn't realize how poorly I had written that until I reread it just now.

[Dogberry]

MYOB. Your friend will not thank you. If his wife is cheating and they work it out, his wife will not thank you. If they divorce, neither one will thank you. If you know for certain she is cheating, how do you know that your friend doesn't know, doesn't care, might even approve, or what? In fact, you don't know anything for certain. Stay the hell out of it.Well said. And the correct course of action. I've never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business. When did it become fashionable to act like Gladys Kravitz?

If the man is spending the night at your friend's house (something which you don't know to be true), and if he is having sex with the wife (something else which you don't know to be true), and if your friend doesn't know about it (a third thing you don't know to be true), and if he's not mature enough to deal very well with what you plan to tell him, the results could be anything from jealous rage and pain, to potentially physical violence (against either the wife or her accused lover), to a wrecked marriage and years of painful rebuilding for both. Would that make you feel proud? Like a good and supportive friend?

On the other hand, even if all of the above "ifs" are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? And if any one of your assumptions is false, you'll quite probably only be stirring up trouble, suspicion, resentment, defensiveness, and bitterness, all for nothing, to the benefit of no one. Would that make you proud?

Keep your priggish, Mrs. Grundy persona in check, and let other people live their own lives without your meddling. Everybody who advises jumping into the matter is wrong. It's none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don't concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.

[Shamozzle]

So, any update, Shamozzle?
No, not yet. I'm still thinking. There are a lot of interesting viewpoints in this thread. But right now I'm leaning towards the "casually inform your friend of the facts you do know" camp.

Well said. And the correct course of action. I've never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business. When did it become fashionable to act like Gladys Kravitz?

If the man is spending the night at your friend's house (something which you don't know to be true), and if he is having sex with the wife (something else which you don't know to be true), and if your friend doesn't know about it (a third thing you don't know to be true), and if he's not mature enough to deal very well with what you plan to tell him, the results could be anything from jealous rage and pain, to potentially physical violence (against either the wife or her accused lover), to a wrecked marriage and years of painful rebuilding for both. Would that make you feel proud? Like a good and supportive friend?

On the other hand, even if all of the above "ifs" are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? And if any one of your assumptions is false, you'll quite probably only be stirring up trouble, suspicion, resentment, defensiveness, and bitterness, all for nothing, to the benefit of no one. Would that make you proud?

Keep your priggish, Mrs. Grundy persona in check, and let other people live their own lives without your meddling. Everybody who advises jumping into the matter is wrong. It's none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don't concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.Your viewpoint has been expressed by others upthread and I've commented accordingly. Did you read this thread?

[Dogberry]

Your viewpoint has been expressed by others upthread and I've commented accordingly. Did you read this thread?
I read the thread. Virtually every post in it can be reduced to "yes, tattle" or "no, don't tattle". Since this is the 150th post, it's clear that each of the two viewpoints has been expressed more than once. And since I quoted and agreed with another poster's vote for MYOB (just as others have quoted the "yes, tattle" opinion and then dittoed it), it's obvious that I'm aware that there is duplication of each of the two fundamental viewpoints. If you'd prefer to read repeated "yes, tattle" posts without dissenting opinions, then okay. I was only expressing an opinion, which the OP called for. I have no idea why you would think I hadn't read the thread.

[Shamozzle]

...SNIP I have no idea why you would think I hadn't read the thread.Because you said:
I've never understood the bizarre obsession people have with sticking their noses into matters that are absolutely not their business.
...SNIP On the other hand, even if all of the above "ifs" are true, and your friend is too oblivious to figure it out for himself, how is his life any the worse for it? SNIP...
It's none of your damn business. Learn to stay out of things that don't concern you. It will make you a better friend. And a better person.Even though I had previously said:

He's my best friend. If my best friend was in danger I would do my best to protect him. And vise versa. If his wife is cheating on him, then yea, he's in danger. Even from a practical sense with regard to STD's he would be in danger.

So, is his wife cheating on him? I don't know. But it kind of looks like it. So, it kind of looks like he is in danger. That gets me interested.
And I'll add: "That makes it my business."

Right now, I'm at the "concerned and contemplative" stage, not the "Cool! A marriage I can destroy for my own amusement" stage. Apparently, that isn't obvious through what I've previously posted.

You ask whether I would feel proud if I was integral in the destruction of their marriage. Proud? Are you serious? I sure as hell wouldn't feel proud. I'd be even more depressed about this whole thing than I am right now.

Let me ask you, is it ever ok to interfere in the private matters of those you care about? What if my friend was beating his wife or molesting his children? Would it be alright then? Both involve putting loved ones in harm's way. How might those examples be fundamentally different than the situation I suspect exists between my friend and his wife?

Let me make something clear. I'm not trying to sound like a hero, but this is a man I would die for. Are the occasionally inconvenient and uncomfortable responsibilities of deep fraternity lost on you?

[tdn]

Shamozzle, despite what I may have posted, I'm not really firmly either in the tattle camp nor in the don't tattle camp. This is a real dilemma. But may I ask you something, with no agenda or solution on my part?

Let's suppose for a moment that there is, in fact, cheating going on, and that your friend is being played for a sap. Whether or not you say anything, what is the outcome you are hoping for? Obviously you want to remain buddies with your buddy, but other than that, what? In an ideal world, would you want them to reconcile? Would you want your friend to leave her? Do you want her to be shamed and humiliated, or do you want her to be ultimately happy?

[wasson]

Shamozzle, despite what I may have posted, I'm not really firmly either in the tattle camp nor in the don't tattle camp. This is a real dilemma. But may I ask you something, with no agenda or solution on my part?

Let's suppose for a moment that there is, in fact, cheating going on, and that your friend is being played for a sap. Whether or not you say anything, what is the outcome you are hoping for? Obviously you want to remain buddies with your buddy, but other than that, what? In an ideal world, would you want them to reconcile? Would you want your friend to leave her? Do you want her to be shamed and humiliated, or do you want her to be ultimately happy?
As someone who has been in a (kind of) similar position, I will say that I didn't have an ideal outcome. What I DID want, however, was for my friend to make an informed decision about her own future and relationship once she was informed of all the facts.

I, and I'm sure Shamozzle is in the same camp, didn't want to make any decisions for anyone or plan an outcome. I just wanted to let a good friend know what was going on in her marriage so she could act appropriately. In this particular case, she chose to stay with him. Good for her! But their marriage and their relationship was adjusted according to the new information.

I'm glad I tattled.

[Cervaise]

Right now, I'm at the "concerned and contemplative" stage, not the "Cool! A marriage I can destroy for my own amusement" stage.Don't worry, you'll get there. ;)

[Acsenray]

Once again, trust and love of a spouse trumps trust and love of outsiders.

You're really not making any sense at all. And you have basically stonewalled any attempt to understand your position. It would be extremely helpful to most of us here if you responded to some of these questions.

-- If your wife were having a sexual relationship with someone other than you, would you want to know? Why or why not?
-- If your wife had acquired a sexually transmitted disease, would you want to know? Why or why not?
-- If your wife had conceived a child with another man while married to you, would you want to know that someone other than you is the biological father? Why or why not?
-- If a friend of yours had observed things that might constitute evidence to suspect any of these things, would you want him to tell you? Why or why not?
-- If a large number of people in your social circle knew as an absolute fact that your wife was being unfaithful to you, would you want any of them to tell you? Why or why not? If you found out much later on your own, how would you feel about being the only person unaware of it for so long?
-- If your best friend and your wife had engaged in a sexual relationship, would you want to know? Why or why not?

Bear in mind that in order for this to make any sense at all, you have to accede to the assumption that your wife is actually cheating on you and that you have no knowledge or suspicion of it.

[Bridget Burke]

....You ask whether I would feel proud if I was integral in the destruction of their marriage. Proud? Are you serious? I sure as hell wouldn't feel proud. I'd be even more depressed about this whole thing than I am right now.

Let me ask you, is it ever ok to interfere in the private matters of those you care about? What if my friend was beating his wife or molesting his children? Would it be alright then? Both involve putting loved ones in harm's way. How might those examples be fundamentally different than the situation I suspect exists between my friend and his wife?

Let me make something clear. I'm not trying to sound like a hero, but this is a man I would die for. Are the occasionally inconvenient and uncomfortable responsibilities of deep fraternity lost on you?

Wife-beating & child-molesting (not just "spuspected") are fundamentally different from suspected adultery. They are illegal and inherently harmful to the victim.

Nothing you have discussed would make you a "hero." Somebody already said "Now it's bros before hoes." Your word selection is more tasteful, but the sentiment is the same.

Many IMHO threads discuss etiquette & fashion, but this one's a bit more serious. It is your choice.

[Acsenray]

Wife-beating & child-molesting (not just "spuspected") are fundamentally different from suspected adultery. They are illegal and inherently harmful to the victim.

Adultery is not illegal, but you don't admit that it is more likely than not to be inherently harmful to the victim? (And when it is not harmful, then the communication is also not likely to be harmful.)

Would you warn a friend that he is about to trip over his shoelaces? Would you warn him that his wife is about to trod on his shoelaces? Or would that be interfering in his marital relationship?

[Scumpup]

Once again, let's stick to the topic. What anyone would do in the presence of absolute proof of adultery isn't germane, for in the case of the OP we aren't even in the same galaxy as absolute proof.
Let me put it this way. What you are looking at is a great big game of he said-she said. You are essentially taking gossip and passing it along to somebody, in this case the husband of the gossip's topic. In the town where I work, there have been any number of individual fights, several murders, and a couple on-going feuds between families that were all caused by he said-she said.
Just for starters, the wife is going to be pissed off at you, especially if she is innocent. The friend with the distinctive car is going to be pissed off at you, especially if he is innocent. Your friend, even if he isn't pissed off at you making a filthy accusation about his wife, is going to have a spouse who quite likely will hate you, whether she is innocent or not. Do you treasure your friendship enough to sacrifice it in order to spread some sordid gossip?
If so, at least be forthright and plainly tell him that you think Schlongy McCoolcar is fucking his wife. Don't be the kind of duplicitous bastard who drips poison in his ear about his wife while maintaining a facade of friendship.
The only time it would be okay for you to make yourself part of this drama is if you were going to tell him that his wife was committing adultery with you.

[Acsenray]

Once again, let's stick to the topic.

This is the topic. All of these questions bear directly on the OP's problem. Why do you refuse to respond to these questions? I think it says something about your responses that you refuse to even entertain them. Frankly, you have failed to establish that your advice is based on any rational experience or thinking whatsoever.

What anyone would do in the presence of absolute proof of adultery isn't germane, for in the case of the OP we aren't even in the same galaxy as absolute proof.

You're just plain wrong about this. In real life, the only way to get absolute proof is to hire a detective, and that is inappropriately intrusive. So we all have to work with possibly ambiguous, but nonetheless hard evidence.

Let me put it this way. What you are looking at is a great big game of he said-she said. You are essentially taking gossip and passing it along to somebody, in this case the husband of the gossip's topic.

Reporting of actual observed events is not gossip. Reporting to the affected individual is not gossip. Gossip is taking speculation, half-knowledge, and fabrication and reporting it to uninvolved third parties.

Just for starters, the wife is going to be pissed off at you, especially if she is innocent.

If she's innocent, she has no reason to be pissed, especially if the OP doesn't accuse of anything.

The friend with the distinctive car is going to be pissed off at you, especially if he is innocent.

If he's innocent, he has no reason to be pissed, especially if the OP doesn't accuse him of anything.

Your friend, even if he isn't pissed off at you making a filthy accusation about his wife

Reporting an observation of something that is happening in public does not amount to a "filthy accusation."

[wasson]

Just for starters, the wife is going to be pissed off at you, especially if she is innocent. The friend with the distinctive car is going to be pissed off at you, especially if he is innocent. Your friend, even if he isn't pissed off at you making a filthy accusation about his wife, is going to have a spouse who quite likely will hate you, whether she is innocent or not.
I hope that my friends value my happiness and safety enough to not keep me in the dark about suspicious actions just in case someone gets pissed off at them.

[Scumpup]

Reporting of actual observed events is not gossip. Reporting to the affected individual is not gossip. Gossip is taking speculation, half-knowledge, and fabrication and reporting it to uninvolved third parties.

The OP's sister, who isn't BFF with anybody involved according to what we have been told, got the ball rolling by gossiping to the OP about what she (claims she) saw. What's that called when you talk about people to other people? Oh yeah, that's called gossip. Also, quit denying that there are accusations involved when there patently are. The OP, based on what he thinks he knows, most certainly is accusing the wife and Schongy McCoolcar of adultery. The whole debate here is whether he should pass along said accusation to his friend. You can try to spin it any other way you want, but it remains an accusation.
If she is guilty, she'll be pissed about having her affair revealed. Maybe in your world, people don't get pissed off about unfounded allegations, but the people I know certainly do, so I believe it very likely indeed that she'd be extremely angry about such accusations if innocent.
In the local vernacular she'd tell the OP "Keep my name out your mouth."

[Acsenray]

Also, quit denying that there are accusations involved when there patently are.

Information can be conveyed without making accusations. At least it's possible among rational, civilized people.

If she is guilty, she'll be pissed about having her affair revealed.

If she's guilty, then her being pissed is of minimal importance.

Maybe in your world, people don't get pissed off about unfounded allegations

Either she is guilty or not. If she's guilty, it's more important for the OP's friend to know than it is to avoid pissing off his wife. If there is an innocent explanation for the guy's parking habits, then why should anyone be pissed?

Scumpup, I'd be obliged if you responded to these questions:

-- If your wife were having a sexual relationship with someone other than you, would you want to know? Why or why not?
-- If your wife had acquired a sexually transmitted disease, would you want to know? Why or why not?
-- If your wife had conceived a child with another man while married to you, would you want to know that someone other than you is the biological father? Why or why not?
-- If a friend of yours had observed things that might constitute evidence to suspect any of these things, would you want him to tell you? Why or why not?
-- If a large number of people in your social circle knew as an absolute fact that your wife was being unfaithful to you, would you want any of them to tell you? Why or why not? If you found out much later on your own, how would you feel about being the only person unaware of it for so long?
-- If your best friend and your wife had engaged in a sexual relationship, would you want to know? Why or why not?

[Scumpup]

Scumpup, I'd be obliged if you responded to these questions:

I am not going to make this about me. This is about the OP and his decision.

[Acsenray]

I am not going to make this about me. This is about the OP and his decision.

Your advice to the OP is all about you. Without this background, you give us no way to weigh the value of your advice. Because, on the face of it, what you say is completely irrational.

You've already told us you'd double punch us all in the mouth, so you've already made this about you anyway.

And the questions I ask are exactly the kinds of questions the OP is going to have to consider before making his decision. You've already made your decision about this situation, so the questions are entirely relevant to your advice.

Basically, the only way your advice makes sense is if you believe that the OP's friend is better off not knowing, even if his wife is cheating on him.

[tdn]

It's obviously a very sensitive subject with him. I'd drop it. At the same time, I'd not give his advice much weight.

[Uncommon Sense]

It's obviously a very sensitive subject with him. I'd drop it. At the same time, I'd not give his advice much weight.

I don't know about that.

I mean, it is possible for this whole thing to evaporate without the (out of town) hubby ever finding out about the weekend visits. In this scenario the only ones that will know will be the neighbor (best friend), the neighbor's sister the wife and the visiting friend. It is possible that the extra-marital relationship (if there is one) can end with all parties back to square one and no-one being harmed emotionally.
I'm sure this happens all the time.
I just would have a hard time keeping by best friend from knowing he's being scammed by his wife.

[Cervaise]

At the same time, I'd not give his advice much weight.Careful, you're gonna get punched.

[tdn]

I mean, it is possible for this whole thing to evaporate without the (out of town) hubby ever finding out about the weekend visits. In this scenario the only ones that will know will be the neighbor (best friend), the neighbor's sister the wife and the visiting friend. It is possible that the extra-marital relationship (if there is one) can end with all parties back to square one and no-one being harmed emotionally.
Yes, that is possible, and that would be an OK resolution to the situation. It'd just be really sad for the husband, even if he were unaware of the whole thing.

[Freudian Slit]

Save the armchair psychoanalysis, tdn. You do it poorly.
I'm the last person to go around poking my nose in other people's business, but I think tdn has a point. Why the reference to violence if this accusation is only founded on mere suspicion? It just seems such a sore point.

[Troy McClure SF]

I'd be livid if my friends knew I were being cheated on, but didn't tell me. Hell, I think I'd be pissed if I found out they were unsure of telling me. What the fuck kind of lunatic (or fetishist, I suppose) wouldn't want to know that?

That said, OP, that's just me, and your situation is not a sure thing. But if you believe something's going on, and you believe your friend will take in in good faith, tell him.

[Shamozzle]

Shamozzle, despite what I may have posted, I'm not really firmly either in the tattle camp nor in the don't tattle camp. This is a real dilemma. But may I ask you something, with no agenda or solution on my part?

Let's suppose for a moment that there is, in fact, cheating going on, and that your friend is being played for a sap. Whether or not you say anything, what is the outcome you are hoping for? Obviously you want to remain buddies with your buddy, but other than that, what? In an ideal world, would you want them to reconcile? Would you want your friend to leave her? Do you want her to be shamed and humiliated, or do you want her to be ultimately happy? All I'd want is for my friend to develop an awareness of what's potentially going on. As for what he does with that info, that's his business. If she is in fact cheating on him, it would be none of my business whether they reconcile or split up. I would never wish shame and humiliation upon her. That's malicious. I have no reason not to wish her happiness in her life.

[Scumpup]

I'm the last person to go around poking my nose in other people's business, but I think tdn has a point. Why the reference to violence if this accusation is only founded on mere suspicion? It just seems such a sore point.

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.
Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance.

[Shamozzle]

Wife-beating & child-molesting (not just "spuspected") are fundamentally different from suspected adultery. They are illegal and inherently harmful to the victim. But as I described, those acts are indeed fundamentally the same in the sense that loved ones are potentially being harmed. As such, I think it is reasonable to presume that surreptitious infidelity could be potentially harmful to the unaware third party.

Nothing you have discussed would make you a "hero." Somebody already said "Now it's bros before hoes." Your word selection is more tasteful, but the sentiment is the same.

Many IMHO threads discuss etiquette & fashion, but this one's a bit more serious. It is your choice.I know I'm not a hero and I don't think I am. I just threw that in there to assert modesty in order to pre-empt any suggestion that I was being dramatic or grand-standing when I stated that I would die for my best friend.

[Acsenray]

blank

[Shamozzle]

blank
Who's? Mine?

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.
Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance.
Is this only in response to someone raising their suspicions to you? What if your best friend told you that they saw your wife making out with someone? Given the characterization of your wife there's no doubt that this would never happen. But were it to, you'd rather be left in the dark?

[TokyoBayer]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.

Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance. How nice to cite 17th century behavior as a role model. I’m sure that you make a great husband, resorting to physical violence to placate your frustrations. What else justifies beating other people?

Are you aware that there are laws concerning assault, and does running the risk of jail time, with subsequent influences on your employment honor your wife?

If the OP’s sister has only told the OP, and he hasn’t told anyone yet then no one is spreading rumors.

If he tells the husband only the facts, that his sister says she sees the mutual friend leave in the mornings when the husband is out of town, then no one is accusing the wife and friend of anything.

[Acsenray]

Who's? Mine?

Sorry, I suppose I should have been clear. I posted a response to Scumpup, but thought better of it and left a "blank" post. Suffice to say, I think you can safely ignore anything he says in this thread and not be afraid of missing good advice.

[Scumpup]

How nice to cite 17th century behavior as a role model. I’m sure that you make a great husband, resorting to physical violence to placate your frustrations. What else justifies beating other people?

Are you aware that there are laws concerning assault, and does running the risk of jail time, with subsequent influences on your employment honor your wife?

If the OP’s sister has only told the OP, and he hasn’t told anyone yet then no one is spreading rumors.

If he tells the husband only the facts, that his sister says she sees the mutual friend leave in the mornings when the husband is out of town, then no one is accusing the wife and friend of anything.

Are you aware that I already said I don't care whether you agree or did you just have to get this out there anyway?

[tdn]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman.
I have no doubt of it. She sounds like a wonderful woman. There's no need to kick the shit out of anyone who doesn't see in her what you see. Rise above it, man.

[sandra_nz]

As someone who has been in a (kind of) similar position, I will say that I didn't have an ideal outcome. What I DID want, however, was for my friend to make an informed decision about her own future and relationship once she was informed of all the facts.

This is also true for my recent, somewhat related, situation.

[Cat Whisperer]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.
Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance.
You are absolutely right - us agreeing with you doesn't matter as long as your wife does. I hope your wife subscribes to the same code of conduct that you do. If you were married to, say, someone like me, our next stop would be couples counseling after you had done something like this, with our marriage continuing contingent on you getting separate counseling for your anger issues.

[Scumpup]

You are absolutely right - us agreeing with you doesn't matter as long as your wife does. I hope your wife subscribes to the same code of conduct that you do. If you were married to, say, someone like me, our next stop would be couples counseling after you had done something like this, with our marriage continuing contingent on you getting separate counseling for your anger issues.

How wonderful for both of us, then, that we are not married to each other. I suspect we aren't each other's type, in any case.

[Rubystreak]

I am not going to make this about me. This is about the OP and his decision.

The way you are making it about you is through your failure to recognize is that your situation is not universal, wherein your spouse is 100% trustworthy and infidelity is unthinkable. I don't have a cite on hand, but I believe 1 in 3 marriages has to deal with infidelity. If you were unfortunate enough to be one of those people, but you trusted your wife and she took advantage of that to sneak around, would you not want a clue from someone? Or would you really rather not know? And how would you feel if your friends knew but kept you in the dark?

I personally think, there but for the grace of God go I. And if I were ever in that situation, I trust my best friend enough to have my best interests at heart and only tell me something I'd need to hear. I would investigate accordingly and get to the bottom of it on my own. But I would appreciate the head's up. I have heard too many horror stories about the consequences of undiscovered infidelity to agree with you, Scumpup.

[pulykamell]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.
Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance.

I'm sure plenty of cheatees have thought exactly the same thing. Don't punch me, I'm just saying, partly through personal experience, although not with a spouse.

At any rate, were I the friend in the OP, I would want to be appraised of what's going on from my close friends, especially from my best friend. Nothing accusatory, just the facts. I'd be quite angry, although I understand the conventional wisdom in this (at least according to advice columnists) is MYOB, if I knew my friend had reasonable suspicion and did not inform me.

[Belrix]

I've been following this with interest since my Ex- was attempting to cheat on my some time ago (I caught her before it lead to actual penetration).

I do think you know what you really want to do. You claim to be searching for advice but, to paraphrase the psychiatrist on Eureka, I think you're really looking for approval.

Here's my $.02... You claim to have a deep, fraternal love for this man. You'd die for him. He's as close to you as you can be to another member of your gender. There's been speculation as to "open marriages" and the like, I think you'd know if that were the case if you're as close to him as you say.

So, IMO, tell him what you suspect. You'll have to be gentle with it, lay out your evidence. I'm far happier knowing the truth, even an unpleasant truth, than being deceived. I was glad I know my wife was a cheater, rather than me being the oblivious fool.

[Shamozzle]

I do think you know what you really want to do. You claim to be searching for advice but, to paraphrase the psychiatrist on Eureka, I think you're really looking for approval.I claim to be looking for advice? I am looking for advice. I think it prudent to pick the minds of others with regard to serious, complex issues where actions upon them could have severe and lasting consequences. Call me crazy.

I'm looking to determine the correct course of action for the given situation, if possible. If the correct answer happens to coincide with my first instinct, then, hey, lucky me.

I'm not looking to "railroad" a predetermined conclusion through starting this thread. I still don't know what I'm going to do.

[Contrapuntal]

I've been following this with interest since my Ex- was attempting to cheat on my some time ago (I caught her before it lead to actual penetration).How soon before? Minutes? Seconds? Inquiring minds want to know!

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I still don't know what I'm going to do.
Not to put too much of a timetable on it, but if what you are most concerned about is your friend's safety, shouldn't you make a decision before he has potentially risky sex too many more times?

I guess that's what it comes down to, is what you think is the most important thing here. If you're prioritizing his safety above all, you should tell him the facts and accept the potential consequences of that. If you're most concerned about other factors, like your friendship with him, his relationship with his wife, or whatever, then make the decision not to tell him.

To be honest though, in reading the thread it sounds like you're leaning toward telling him is the right thing to do.

[Belrix]

How soon before? Minutes? Seconds? Inquiring minds want to know!

She was having an "affair of the heart" with a male friend - spending multiple nights per week at his house, officially "working" for his home-based business. He claimed to not be sexually interested in her because she was, frankly, too fat for him. I believe them when they claim that penis did not ensue but still I firmly believe that she was looking for him to provide the emotional role that I should've provided as husband.

My role in her life, for a period of more than a year, was reduced to income & childcare provider. The important parts of the relationship were elsewhere. These problems then lead to marital counseling; the marriage was most definitely a sinking ship

It was during these counseling sessions where I then found where she had been responding to personal ads on Craig's list in which she was claiming to be separated and living independently.

Well - soon after she was.

Shamozzle... I apologize for the blunt answer to you but I do think you know what you feel you should do.

As I said earlier, I think you should tell him what evidence you have. If you want to remove the gossip angle from it, visit your sister's house the next time your friend goes out of town. Now you've removed a level of indirection from it. It's no longer, "My sister says...", it becomes "I spy with my own eye..."

I'd rather know early I was being cheated on rather than being revealed as a cuckold to those who know but didn't tell. Men, I believe, want to be in control. Right now, this man has no control because he has no information. Telling him puts him in control of his response, not the recipient of her actions.

[Shamozzle]

Ok, so here's an update for those of you who are interested.

Despite all of the smart advice I've received on this board, and despite the fact that time is of the essence, I've struggled to make a decision as to what I would do.

But I did do this: I consulted, in confidence, my best friend's brother. He is also a great friend of mine, I've know him for many years. He is one of the most cool and level-headed people I know, a very clear thinker and wise beyond his years. Of course, he's as concerned for the welfare of his brother as I am.

I'm not concerned that in telling him that I've pushed the rumor snowball down the hill, he's a solid guy.

Basically, he wanted to think about it for a few days.

But here's the kicker: My best friend spent the last two weeks out of town, five hundred miles away, fleshing out a potential new job. We found out yesterday that he did, in fact, get the job and that he will be back in town in three days to pack up his house, grab his wife, and move to the new city. :eek: So, huge plans in the best-friend camp.

The potential repercussions for informing my friend of the observed facts just got bumped up a few notches. I can here everyone screaming "Tell him already!" but, I admit, the prospect is scary as hell.

Oh, and suspected cheater boy spent every night of those two weeks at my best friend's house. In a platonic capacity, I highly doubt.

[JThunder]

I am not going to make this about me. This is about the OP and his decision.With all due respect, it sounds to me like you're dodging the questions... questions which are entirely relevant to the topic at hand, IMO.

[Shamozzle]

...SNIP I can here SNIP... Make that 'hear'. Duh.

[Contrapuntal]

Oh, and suspected cheater boy spent every night of those two weeks at my best friend's house. In a platonic capacity, I highly doubt.You know this? If so, that tears it. You have to tell him.

[AuntiePam]

Oh, and suspected cheater boy spent every night of those two weeks at my best friend's house. In a platonic capacity, I highly doubt.

Couldn't this argue for innocent? Unless these people live in a big city, or out in the boonies, somebody's gonna notice.

I don't think getting another outsider involved was a good idea. But then I'm in the MYOB camp.

[Shamozzle]

You know this? If so, that tears it. You have to tell him.I know he spent every night there, yea.

[Shamozzle]

Couldn't this argue for innocent? Unless these people live in a big city, or out in the boonies, somebody's gonna notice. A city of 80,000 people, for what it's worth.

I don't think getting another outsider involved was a good idea. But then I'm in the MYOB camp.I know, it's a dangerous move. Often, that's how "shit starts".

I thought about it for a while. I decided it was worth it, my best friend's brother is smart, solid, and level-headed.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Years ago, I was in the position to inform a good friend that his fiancee was cheating on him, just a day before their wedding.

I asked another friend, who also knew him well, what to do.

The other friend replied: "He knows what she's like, he knows what he's getting into. Keep your mouth shut".

I kept my mouth shut.

They're still happily married over 25 years later.

My rule of thumb: Unless someone is at significant risk of being in actual physical danger, I keep my mouth shut.

Not sure I could if it was one of my kids, however.

YMMV, etc.

[cher3]

He spent every night there for two weeks? I wonder if best-friend's wife is going to be as solidly behind this move as he thinks. Two weeks goes beyond a bit on the side. She may have some plans of her own.

[Shamozzle]

He spent every night there for two weeks? I wonder if best-friend's wife is going to be as solidly behind this move as he thinks. Two weeks goes beyond a bit on the side. She may have some plans of her own.
Yes, and she is a very independent and capable woman, I can easily see her striking out on her own.

[fisha]

Actually, with the most recent developments, I would highly advise NOT telling your friend.

This will resolve on it's own-either she'll get over the guy she is supposedly sleeping with when proximity is not a factor, making her focus on her marriage,or when she moves, she'll realize that the marriage is over.

In addition, the husband will be able to notice if there is an ongoing affair a little easier if there is distance involved.

Either way, the decision will make itself, you saying anything at this point is immaterial.

[JThunder]

My rule of thumb: Unless someone is at significant risk of being in actual physical danger, I keep my mouth shut.Sometimes, non-physical danger is a great deal more damaging that physical danger.

As I recall, you work in the penal system. I'm sure that you know what I mean.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Sometimes, non-physical danger is a great deal more damaging that physical danger.

As I recall, you work in the penal system. I'm sure that you know what I mean.
Ah, but who decides what is a non-physical danger, and to whom?

And which adults should be supervising the lives of which other adults as regards these matters?

I work in a system where there's a lot of supervision of adults by other adults going on.

I do not wish to spend my non-work time in a system where there's a lot of that going on.

Do you?

[JThunder]

Ah, but who decides what is a non-physical danger, and to whom?
I'm not saying that these questions are always easy. My point is that we can't simply dismiss danger simply because it's non-physical in nature.

Heck, as a physician, I'm sure that you know all about psychological trauma. Surely you've seen a lot of that in your line of work. That's not something that intelligent adults dismiss simply because it's non-physical in nature -- especially since the wounds can cut much deeper than any blade.

I repeat: I'm not saying that all danger is easy to determine. That holds true for both physical and non-physical danger, though. Moreover, there are times when it is just painfully obvious than someone is in emotional danger, and we'd be fools to dismiss that simply because it's not a matter of life or limb.

[tesseract]

Tell him already!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dung Beetle]

This question is not all that related to the situation, it's just something I wondered. When your friend moves five hundred miles away, will you still keep in touch? Will you know how this all turns out?

[Eureka]

This question is not all that related to the situation, it's just something I wondered. When your friend moves five hundred miles away, will you still keep in touch? Will you know how this all turns out?
And most importantly, will you tell us all how this turns out?

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

Any word here, Shamozzle? My inner gossip is dying over here.

[greatshakes]

My wife is a good, honorable, and loving woman. She is, in point of fact, a wonderful person who shows me_every day_tremendous love and loyalty. She is everything that one could ask for in a wife and closest friend. For someone to impugn that wonderful woman's character and morals with such a base accusation is far more than I would be willing to tolerate. Since the proper response, horsewhipping the impertinent bastard, is out of the question in today's world (the horse being replaced by the automobile has resulted in a dearth of horsewhips), I would have to content myself with just demolishing the mouth that spoke such filth.
Perhaps it is a result of the time and place where I was born. Perhaps it was role models like my father and uncles. Regardless of why I am this way, I believe (and I act upon) the only proper response to some things being an ass-kicking. Whether the people following this thread agree is of no importance.
I'm all for giving a manly punishment for troublesome people, but you are clouding the issue by bringing your wife into it. What if you were being cuckolded? Would you want to know about it? THAT is what the OP is about.

It is childish to say that the OP is passing on gossip. This isn't gossip, it's casual journalism. This kind of thing is public domain. Some wanker thinks he's smart and parks in front of a stranger's house overnight, then walks down the street to visit a married woman whose husband is out of town! This is public domain, regardless of how anybody wants to paint it. It is flagrant, and violates all of the canons of 'discretion' that separate gossip from repeating the six-o'clock news.

[BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]

I'm all for giving a manly punishment for troublesome people, but you are clouding the issue by bringing your wife into it. What if you were being cuckolded? Would you want to know about it? THAT is what the OP is about.

It is childish to say that the OP is passing on gossip. This isn't gossip, it's casual journalism. This kind of thing is public domain. Some wanker thinks he's smart and parks in front of a stranger's house overnight, then walks down the street to visit a married woman whose husband is out of town! This is public domain, regardless of how anybody wants to paint it. It is flagrant, and violates all of the canons of 'discretion' that separate gossip from repeating the six-o'clock news.
I was kidding about the "gossip" thing. I was just curious as to what the OP decided.

ETA: And BTW, I don't know where you're watching the 6:00 news, but when I was in the states the news was only gossip. News in America is a fucking joke.

[Hippy Hollow]

Couldn't this argue for innocent? Unless these people live in a big city, or out in the boonies, somebody's gonna notice.

I don't think getting another outsider involved was a good idea. But then I'm in the MYOB camp.
Yeah, but the MYOB attitude that a lot of people display means that many will see or notice what's going on, but they won't do anything about.

Nor should they, if they're just acquaintances of the couple. But the OP is a best friend. The threshold is a little higher here.

I agree with those who suggest it's best to say what you actually know. And I'd probably confirm that it was indeed his car, rather than taking the sister's word for it, before I said anything. I actually considered the option of telling the wife that you've noticed what's going on, but there have been some good objections to this.