The Army Recruiter Update

[SSG Schwartz]

I have posted the So I'm gonna be a Recruiter for the Army (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=433949) thread and Why I think my job as a Recruiter is hard (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=455327) so this will be an update for all who are concerned.

I have been stationed in Paris, Texas. This is my first time to live in a small town, even though people in the surrounding towns call Paris as "going to the city." I have school that I recruit from that have a graduating class of 10 people. I am getting used to the small town life and have enlisted two people in the two months that I have been on numbers (that is months in which I have to meet a goal.) I feel that I have been forthright in all my dealings with people and only wish they would do the same for me.
In the last two weeks, I have had two people ready to go and swear in to the Army, but both tested positive for Marijuana. Another was over the body fat limit after he had lost 20 pounds. That just pushes them back for awhile, but I instead have to make up for the losses.

I am under pressure to put in people who have graduated high school and who can score better than 51 points on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery. Those that can, generally are in college and think that the only thing the Army can offer is a free college education and a chance at getting sent to Iraq. We do offer a lot of benefits other than college, but most young people have never had to pay rent in this community and don't think that will ever happen to them.

I spend a lot of time with the young people that don't have many ways to get out of Paris. Not that there is anything wrong with this town, but the biggest employers are Campbell Soup plant, the Sarah Lee plant, and TCIM. All of these jobs pay good to get young people in, but will work you for 40+ years until retirement and don't offer great benefits. I really want to help the young people and give them opportunities that they would otherwise not have. Forget the college money, I can give them a chance to get away from the drugs and the criminal life.

I have spent time getting to know the Recruiters from the other branches and all are willing to help me place someone they cannot place. I have tried to get to know the HS teachers and the guidance counselors and get recommendations from them.

My greatest success so far is the sister of a Doper who will remain nameless without her permission. My greatest failure is that I needed to put someone in the Army today. I met a young man yesterday who said today that he was willing to commit based upon my Integrity, but he failed the pre-screen drug test. So I will have to wait two weeks or so to raise my total and my sig.

SSG Schwartz

[Airman Doors, USAF]

I met a young man yesterday who said today that he was willing to commit based upon my Integrity, but he failed the pre-screen drug test.

This seems to be a trend. God help you, because you're going to need it. And a minimum of 51 on the ASVAB? Are there really people that score that low? I mean that sincerely, I didn't remember it being taxing at all. That's almost the level of functional illiteracy, isn't it?

[SSG Schwartz]

No, the ASVAB is percentile based. 51 means you scored better than 50 out of 100 people who took the test. No, it is not hard, but you do have to have basic comprehension skills and Algebra knowledge.

SSG Schwartz

ETA: your branch does have different standards though Airman Doors.

[Pixilated]

I was really put off by my Son's highschool Army recruiter. I met the guy & he was nice. It didnt take long for the red flags to go off when it seemed like all he was doing was pushing the sign-up bonus & he completely fit the stereo type of a used car salesman. His message that came across was "you are cattle to be bought". Is that common with Army recruiters or all branch recruiters? Do the numbers effect your paycheck?

Have you told the kids that any drug they take will be detected if it has been used in the last (x) amount of days/weeks so they need to be clean for that amount of time before their test and after they pass the test they can celebrate?


ps I hauled my son off to the Airforce recruiter instead, who was much more intellectual and didnt feel necessary to throw out the dollar signs. My son scored fairly high on the test and will be coming back to TX this summer to enlist.

[yanceylebeef]

Wow, I don't envy you, Sarge...my dad was an Air Force Recruiter for about a year in Redding California in 1975/76. right after the Vietnam war. He had guys coming in that couldn't read, could not score above forty on the ASVAP, or were running from the law.

He couldn't take the stress and went back to his old AFSC in the Security Services. He was being asked to lie, forge paperwork, anything to keep the numbers up.

Keep being ethical, truthful, and you'll get the right kids who want to serve, not necessarily the one who see it as a last resort.

[Hockey Monkey]

Good luck to you SSG Schwartz. I'm betting that selling cars IS easier than recruiting for the Army right now. I must have missed the part where you moved to Texas. Wish I had gotten to meet you and Babygirl at a Dopefest.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Do recruiters look for officer candidates or just enlistees?

[fisha]

Be the one that sets the example.

[SSG Schwartz]

I was really put off by my Son's highschool Army recruiter. I met the guy & he was nice. It didnt take long for the red flags to go off when it seemed like all he was doing was pushing the sign-up bonus & he completely fit the stereo type of a used car salesman. His message that came across was "you are cattle to be bought". Is that common with Army recruiters or all branch recruiters? Do the numbers effect your paycheck?

Have you told the kids that any drug they take will be detected if it has been used in the last (x) amount of days/weeks so they need to be clean for that amount of time before their test and after they pass the test they can celebrate?


ps I hauled my son off to the Airforce recruiter instead, who was much more intellectual and didnt feel necessary to throw out the dollar signs. My son scored fairly high on the test and will be coming back to TX this summer to enlist.


Among the things we have to offer is a sign on bonus. We also offer an Army College Fund. There are also things that we offer that are intangible, such a being part of something greater than yourself, leadership opportunities, a chance to see the world. The other recruiter that I work with is also a one trick pony. He offers college to everyone as though that is the only selling point that the Army has to offer.

Look at it like this, we have a lot more jobs to fill. So someone who will qualify to be a spearcarrier in the Air Force may have a chance to be a leader sooner in the Army. I will do my best to match the interests and needs of the applicant to the opportunities that the Army offers. If I am a car salesman, I am at least selling you the car you want with the options you can afford.

If a recruiter only sells a person on what the Army has to offer instead of what the Army has to offer you the recruiter will not have as many satisfied Soldiers. IMO.

Wow, I don't envy you, Sarge...my dad was an Air Force Recruiter for about a year in Redding California in 1975/76. right after the Vietnam war. He had guys coming in that couldn't read, could not score above forty on the ASVAP, or were running from the law.

He couldn't take the stress and went back to his old AFSC in the Security Services. He was being asked to lie, forge paperwork, anything to keep the numbers up.

Keep being ethical, truthful, and you'll get the right kids who want to serve, not necessarily the one who see it as a last resort.

Don't get me wrong, there are people that I am trying to enlist that have been considered mentally challenged. I spoke to a woman today that has a below average IQ, but she really wants to serve. Her level of function is that of a 15 year old. I spoke to her guardian, her sister, who was shocked that I would try to recruit someone, "who was retarded. Who could not understand and be capable of making the decision to shoot someone."

I had to explain to the sister that persons of above average intelligence will struggle with that decision and that is why we train people what to do in any given situation. (There is a whole other rant that I won't go into here about combat situations.) The applicant wants to go to college, and her sister supports that. Both want the applicant to have structure and for the applicant to be able to live on her own someday. We are going to try to facilitate that. But the applicant must pass the ASVAB, and that is what I am encouraging her to do.

There are also those that have had law violations in the past. I do not accept felons at this time, but a couple of misdemeanors in the past, and you can show me that you have changed, I will do all I can for you.

In short, the Army helped me, a lot . I want to do the same for others.


Good luck to you SSG Schwartz. I'm betting that selling cars IS easier than recruiting for the Army right now. I must have missed the part where you moved to Texas. Wish I had gotten to meet you and Babygirl at a Dopefest.

Yeah, I hated missing that. We are looking up as the school year winds to a close. I always promise less than I can deliver, so that the applicant is pleased when they get more than we agreed upon. Find me a car salesman that does that. :D

Do recruiters look for officer candidates or just enlistees?

A smart recruiter will look for both. If you join as an Officer, I get twice the credit. One contract for putting someone in the Army, and one contract for putting in a Officer. There is a lot more work and a longer time taken to put the Officer applicant in, so some recruiters will only look for enlisted contracts. As for me, if an applicant is Officer material, I will advise the person of the costs and benefits of both sides and will let the applicant make the decision. I for one was Officer material when I came in, didn't know that, and when I found out, I chose to stay Enlisted and will for my entire term of service. In my heart, I am not an Officer.

Be the one that sets the example.

I am, but at least you didn't say what kind of example. :smack:

SSG Schwartz

[Quartz]

Are people still given the option of enlisting rather than being given a criminal record and / or being imprisoned? Do you liaise with local judges about that?

[OtakuLoki]

SSG Schwartz, no questions here, just a pat on the back. If you ever make it up to Rochester, I'll buy you a beer. Keep on doing what you think is right.

[Really Not All That Bright]

A smart recruiter will look for both. If you join as an Officer, I get twice the credit. One contract for putting someone in the Army, and one contract for putting in a Officer. There is a lot more work and a longer time taken to put the Officer applicant in, so some recruiters will only look for enlisted contracts. As for me, if an applicant is Officer material, I will advise the person of the costs and benefits of both sides and will let the applicant make the decision. I for one was Officer material when I came in, didn't know that, and when I found out, I chose to stay Enlisted and will for my entire term of service. In my heart, I am not an Officer.
What are the downsides to being an Officer? I imagine increased responsibility is a downside to some, but I can't think of anything else.

[hajario]

What are the downsides to being an Officer? I imagine increased responsibility is a downside to some, but I can't think of anything else.

In the civilian world, officers are like management. Some people want to get into management and others don't. I bet most of the reasons are pretty much the same.

[Paul in Qatar]

What are the downsides to being an Officer? I imagine increased responsibility is a downside to some, but I can't think of anything else.

You go first. (Except in the mess hall of course.)

[ChiefScott]

In my heart, I am not an Officer.

Preach it, brother, preach it.

I never considered an officer career track in the Navy. I was offered a limited duty commission (as a 1650 -- public affairs) after I'd been named Sailor of the Year for my recruiting command and region. From day one of bootcamp I knew I wanted to be a chief, so I turned 'em down cold. My decision really pissed off my Skipper and XO. Luckily, I earned the rank of chief a month or two later and all was forgotten.

Recruiters have arguably the toughest jobs in the service. I, as the PAO for NAVCRUITDIST Philly, supported them. I know your pain. I sympathize with your pain. But I could never do what you have to do.

I am physically and mentally incapable of selling water to a man dying of thirst.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I am physically and mentally incapable of selling water to a man dying of thirst.
I was always under the impression that the armed services sell themselves; some people want to do it, and some don't, but either way you just sort of know.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

I've had recruiters flip me off and tell me to fuck off when they drive down the street when I'm in an anti-war march. That's not good conduct, is it?

[What Exit?]

I've had recruiters flip me off and tell me to fuck off when they drive down the street when I'm in an anti-war march. That's not good conduct, is it?
How did you know they were recruiters?

If they were in uniform, their actions were very questionable, they should not be involved in any side of any protest while in uniform.

[Really Not All That Bright]

How did you know they were recruiters?
I would guess they walked out of recruiting offices in uniform upon seeing the protestors.

I was very impressed by the conduct of the Berkely recruiters during that womens' sit-in thing.

[ChiefScott]

I was very impressed by the conduct of the Berkely recruiters during that womens' sit-in thing.

In the Navy, we preferred women who sat on things.

[TJVM]

I don't know Paris, but I live in the Dallas area, and I would think that a small town in north Texas would be about the best recruiting environment you could hope for, at least in terms of general attitudes toward the military and the current war(s). If you're having a tough time here, it must be really hard elsewhere.

We do offer a lot of benefits other than college, but most young people have never had to pay rent in this community and don't think that will ever happen to them.
What do you mean by this? Do you mean "pay rent" literally, as in, they've always lived with their parents? And what is it that they don't think will ever happen to them?

I do not accept felons at this time...
Is this an army requirement, or your personal approach? Either way, do you anticipate that this may change in the foreseeable future? (Since you said "at this time").

[SSG Schwartz]

Are people still given the option of enlisting rather than being given a criminal record and / or being imprisoned? Do you liaise with local judges about that?

That is a very, very questionable area. I know some recruiters will talk to DA's and judges in order to get a person in the Army. I won't do that. Do the crime, do the time, then talk to me. And FTR, you can't get a felony overlooked so someone can join, but some recruiters will get probation reduced. Again, I don't do that.

I don't know Paris, but I live in the Dallas area, and I would think that a small town in north Texas would be about the best recruiting environment you could hope for, at least in terms of general attitudes toward the military and the current war(s). If you're having a tough time here, it must be really hard elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG Schwartz
We do offer a lot of benefits other than college, but most young people have never had to pay rent in this community and don't think that will ever happen to them.

What do you mean by this? Do you mean "pay rent" literally, as in, they've always lived with their parents? And what is it that they don't think will ever happen to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG Schwartz
I do not accept felons at this time...

Is this an army requirement, or your personal approach? Either way, do you anticipate that this may change in the foreseeable future? (Since you said "at this time").

I don't know why you feel that a small town would have a pro-military stance. Yes, a lot of people here vote the straight Republican ticket, but when it gets to a personal level, some may change their mind.

As to your second point, I don't know how old you are, but if you can think back to when you were 18 or so, you may have thought that there would be an easy way to be successful. A lot of young people today seem to think that because they wrote a rap song that their friends like, they will be the next Biggie Smalls, or whoever the artist of the day is. When reality sets in, they may be working for the factory and wondering where those High School dreams went to. Or maybe I listen to too many Bruce Springsteen songs.

As to the felons, if a person has a GED and a felony conviction, there is nothing I nor the Army can do for you. If the person has a felony conviction and college credit hours, I may be able to put that person in the Army. Again, the person has to show that he or she has tried to do the right thing since the conviction and it still may not be that the exception to policy may be approved. I am currently working on putting in a person who sold cocaine, but is very intellegent and has completed college classes since he got out of prison. He really has done good things since he got out. It will be a lot of work for me, but I will try to put him in. Get a felony and think you can join the Army to make you a good person? No, I don't have the time or ability to put you in.

What are the downsides to being an Officer? I imagine increased responsibility is a downside to some, but I can't think of anything else.
Officers cannot be Drill Sergeants. Officers cannot teach Soldiers how to be Non-Commissioned Officers. Shit, Officers can't teach Soldiers how to exit a perfectly good aircraft while in flight. Officers get the task of what must be done. NCO's determine how it is done.


I've had recruiters flip me off and tell me to fuck off when they drive down the street when I'm in an anti-war march. That's not good conduct, is it?

Maybe it is just you the are giving the bird to. LOUNE :D Seriously, that is unprofessional conduct. I would report those people. They have a name on the uniform. Make a couple of calls and you can get the higher command of the offenders. PM me and tell me the name and the city you saw this conduct in and I will see that it gets addressed.
One of the things that the Army is supposed to fight for is your ability to protest.

SSG Schwartz

[SSG Schwartz]

SSG Schwartz, no questions here, just a pat on the back. If you ever make it up to Rochester, I'll buy you a beer. Keep on doing what you think is right.

If you know somebody who is ready to join, I will be on the next flight out, and I will buy you a beer.

SSG Schwartz