The Office: "Did I Stutter?" (open spoilers)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think this is the first episode where I really didn't like Stanley. It's not even that he's wrong about Michael, but he was needlessly cruel, and his public dissing really was inappropriate. At the end of it all, Michael finally did act like a boss and Stanley did accept it, but for a while I thought Stanley was really being an asshole.

Ryan: what a little prick he is.

Toby: Wasn't he going to Costa Rica? Is he just back at work like nothing happened now?

The Pam glasses thing was kind of flat, mainly because they didn't make her look any less attractive. I did like Creed's line, though.

[Menocchio]

Wow. Ryan's really a strong contender for the gold in the Dick Olympics, but Toby's not going to settle for the silver.

But yeah, really refreshing to see Michael be a real boss for once.

[Justin_Bailey]

Wow. Ryan's really a strong contender for the gold in the Dick Olympics, but Toby's not going to settle for the silver.

Ryan is going to get slammed so hard that it will be satisfying to people who don't even watch The Office. That was a seriously evil move.

But this was a great episode.

[Kid_A]

It was nice to have an "office" episode again.

I think Ryan is my most hated TV character since Janice on The Sopranos. What a weasel.

[Menocchio]

I did like the glasses thing, because they were really ugly glasses, and the final payoff with a frightened Jim leading her away.

[mshar253]

I must have missed something. Michael says that Stanley should make a "rap" (because he's black), Stanley refuses in a way that was appropriate for being pigeonholed, yet Toby goes to Michael, saying that Stanley needed to be reprimanded for being out of line?

Like I said, I must have missed something...

[AuntiePam]

I think this is the first episode where I really didn't like Stanley. It's not even that he's wrong about Michael, but he was needlessly cruel, and his public dissing really was inappropriate. At the end of it all, Michael finally did act like a boss and Stanley did accept it, but for a while I thought Stanley was really being an asshole.


I disagree. Or maybe I don't disagree. Another way to look at what Stanley did at the meeting was that he treated Michael like a man. Everyone else ignored Michael, or toadied (Andy), or made a joke at his expense (Jim).

He was disrespectful, but he was up front with it. That's better than being dismissed, ignored, or made fun of.

What Stanley did forced Michael to actually act like a boss for once.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I must have missed something. Michael says that Stanley should make a "rap" (because he's black), Stanley refuses in a way that was appropriate for being pigeonholed, yet Toby goes to Michael, saying that Stanley needed to be reprimanded for being out of line?

Like I said, I must have missed something...
All Michael wanted was for Stanley to put away his crossword puzzle and at least pretend to pay attention. Stanley snapped at him in a way that was totally inappropriate. No matter how much he disrespects Michael, Mochael is right, he can't talk to him that way. If Stanley doesn't like his boss, he can find another job. What he can't do is continually insult him and expect to get away with it. It's unprofessional. Even Stanley understood that at the end of the day.

[Merijeek]

Ryan is going to get slammed so hard that it will be satisfying to people who don't even watch The Office. That was a seriously evil move.

But this was a great episode.

Yeah, I see Jim completely demolishing Ryan.

-Joe

[Diogenes the Cynic]

What were all the gangs that Darryl said he'd been in? The Crips, the Bloods, the Latin Kings and what else?

[Kid_A]

Newsies...and something else.

[Rubystreak]

I think Stanley is tired of all the racial crap that Michael directs at him. He cannot even talk about Stanley without mentioning his blackness. I can see why, after what did Stanley say, a decade of this? He might be at the point where he puts up that crossword to block out what he knows is coming, both the racist stuff and the general idiocy. We watch the show for comedic purposes, but if that were your job and your boss, eventually you might just stop pretending to be OK with it. After all, Stanley is a beautiful, sassy, powerful black man. He's sticking up for himself.

I was surprised that Toby tried to tell Michael he needed to discipline Stanley instead of telling Michael that the race related comments were making Stanley uncomfortable in the workplace and he should knock it off.

As for the public haranguing that Stanley gave Michael, including the lawsuit threat, well... a fake firing? In public, in front of everyone? Humiliating and not funny (except for us). Stanley losing his shit was a realistic and appropriate reaction IMO. Michael did deal with it pretty well, though, for him. I thought for sure he was going to try to tickle Stanley.

Add me to the I Hate Ryan Club.

[Happy Lendervedder]

This was hands-down the most uncomfortable episode I've seen in a looooong time. I LOVED it! My wife spent most of the episode hiding under a blanket cuz she couldn't stand to watch.

[Raygun99]

I like how Darryl doesn't even blink at Michael's ridiculously offensive questions anymore.

[AuntiePam]

Add me to the I Hate Ryan Club.

Shall we elect officers? What's with the beard and the unbuttoned shirt?

Jim was gobsmacked. How will that play out? Will Michael come to his defense? Will Jim get fired? Will he quit? Will he trip and fall in Michael's face-hole and sue the company?

And what was up with Phyllis talking back at the end? Does she want to be fake-fired too?

[AuntiePam]

Even Stanley understood that at the end of the day.

It helped that Michael finally acted like a manager, stopped making jokes and got serious. Stanley respected that.

[Amazingrace]

I am now convinced that Michael MAY be a normal person when he doesn't have an audience. He didn't think that the cameras were there when he finally decided to act like a boss and be a reasonable person. We've seen him napping or goofing around when he doesn't think that the camera is on him, but we've never seen him interact with another human being.

This is my theory.

Also, I predict that the season finale will involve Ryan firing Jim or David Wallace firing Ryan and offering Jim the corporate job as Ryan's replacement.

[msmith537]

Another way to look at what Stanley did at the meeting was that he treated Michael like a man. Everyone else ignored Michael, or toadied (Andy), or made a joke at his expense (Jim).


No, he acted like a passive agressive child. He sat in a meeting doing a crossword puzzle and then snapped at Michael in a totally inappropriate manner. You may not have to respect the man, but you have to respect the title.


All this hate on Ryan but none for Toby? Unfortunately for Jim, Ryan is partially correct. Jim is a malcontent. He does spend a lot of time goofing off and playing practical jokes. Now it does seem that Ryan is acting like a prick. What isn't 100% clear is whether he is doing it on his own accord or partially because of something Toby said.

Anyhow, it's pretty clear between his drug problem, the lackluster web site and his management style, they are setting Ryan up for a fall. A demotion back to Scranton would be the most comically satisfying.



What were all the gangs that Darryl said he'd been in? The Crips, the Bloods, the Latin Kings and what else?

The Warriors (come out and plaaay) and the Newsies.

[Merijeek]

Anyhow, it's pretty clear between his drug problem, the lackluster web site and his management style, they are setting Ryan up for a fall. A demotion back to Scranton would be the most comically satisfying.


Ryan has a drug problem?

-Joe

[Rubystreak]

No, he acted like a passive agressive child. He sat in a meeting doing a crossword puzzle and then snapped at Michael in a totally inappropriate manner. You may not have to respect the man, but you have to respect the title.

But Michael is continually childish and offensive. Michael was making an inappropriate race-related comment when Stanley snapped at him. I guess I really couldn't blame Stanley for finally losing his shit. I'm glad Michael handled it right in the end, because up to that point, he didn't deserve better than he got. Who here hasn't wanted to pull out a crossword in some pointless, idiotic meeting? Stanley was openly doing what they all wished they could (except Dwight and Andy). He was obviously feeling resentment and bitterness at how Michael runs the office, which he got to vent, and Michael actually listened and got to assert his authority in a meaningful way. That confrontation was cathartic, I thought.

I agree with you about Toby being a dick too, and that maybe he and Ryan are collaborating on screwing over Jim. I think Ryan initiated the warning but found a receptive accomplice in Toby. If Jim's sales numbers are good and no one in the office has a problem with him, then the warning was totally retaliatory on Ryan's part. It's going to be fun seeing that little shit get his comeuppance, if he actually does.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Ryan has a drug problem?
Did you miss last week's episode or are you whooshing?

[Merijeek]

I agree with you about Toby being a dick too, and that maybe he and Ryan are collaborating on screwing over Jim. I think Ryan initiated the warning but found a receptive accomplice in Toby. If Jim's sales numbers are good and no one in the office has a problem with him, then the warning was totally retaliatory on Ryan's part. It's going to be fun seeing that little shit get his comeuppance, if he actually does.

I'm pretty sure that Toby and Ryan are both targeting Jim out of jealousy for Pam.

-Joe

[Merijeek]

Did you miss last week's episode or are you whooshing?

Oops. Come to think of it, I actually did.

-Joe

[Rubystreak]

I'm pretty sure that Toby and Ryan are both targeting Jim out of jealousy for Pam.

-Joe

I think Ryan is pissed because Jim complained about his website. He told Jim last week to watch his back. I'm sure the Pam aspect didn't help any but I don't think that was the primary cause of this warning.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Oops. Come to think of it, I actually did.

-Joe
Ok. Last week Michael and Dwight went clubbing with Ryan in NY, and it was heavily implied that Ryan had a drug problem.

[minlokwat]

And what about Dwight?

Using the Jedi-mind trick to buy Andy's SUV and then jacking up the price for a quick resell.

Then the emergency power shift flow chart, trying the same hard sell technique on Michael who didn't fall for it.

I have to watch this one again.

[Dante]

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wanted to see Michael try and tickle Stanley. What did Darryl call it? Puffy fingers or something?

[I'm No Saint]

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wanted to see Michael try and tickle Stanley. What did Darryl call it? Puffy fingers or something?

Fluffy fingers. I was so disappointed that Michael didn't do that.

[JeffB]

I think it was "fluffy fingers".

Dwight's car buying skills with Andy were great, and it looked like Angela noticed Dwight's victory. Michael not falling for Dwight's hard sell on the emergency power chart was another indicator that he's not a complete idiot.

[muldoonthief]

Yeahhh, I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with everyone about Michael acting like a boss and a man with Stanley at the end of the episode. After everyone left the room, the first thing Michael did was break down and cry, and ask Stanley why he's always so mean to him. Stanley told him the bald truth - he has no respect for Michael, he dislikes him more every day, he thinks he's an idiot. A good boss (and a man, in the Vito Corleone sense) would have told Stanley "Well, then we cannot work together any longer. You need to either transfer to another branch, or leave the company." Instead, Michael basically told him to fake it in front of other people. That's not what a good boss (or a man) does.

[Menocchio]

That's not what a good boss (or a man) does.
If Stanley is still useful to him as a salesman, yes it is.

[Pleonast]

Huh, I totally blamed with Jim's reprimand on Toby. I figured he filed a complaint and Ryan jumped on it because of Jim's criticisms.

I was in painful anticipation of Michael tickling Stanley after everyone left.

Remind me how Ryan got to his current position? He's totally incompetent. Michael is too as a manager, but at least he worked his way to his position through excellent sales. Did Ryan sleep his way up or what?

[Happy Lendervedder]

Huh, I totally blamed with Jim's reprimand on Toby. I figured he filed a complaint and Ryan jumped on it because of Jim's criticisms.

I was in painful anticipation of Michael tickling Stanley after everyone left.

Remind me how Ryan got to his current position? He's totally incompetent. Michael is too as a manager, but at least he worked his way to his position through excellent sales. Did Ryan sleep his way up or what?

He MBA-ed his way up.

[Gangster Octopus]

I enjoyed this episode. Stanley was being a dick in the meeting, but he was apprpriately outraged at the fake firing. Michael handled the whole thing extremely childishly by trying to pretend it didn't happen, trying to see who else could do it, not ever confronting Stanley but instead coming up with the fake firing and then crying. At the end he wasn't nearly foceful enough, he just told Stanley not to talk back to him in front of the others. He shoudl have said that Stanley will not bring his crossword puzzles into meetings, he should have said, if you have a problem with me you come discuss it with me, my door is always open. Instead he was almost asking Stanley for a favor, basically saying at least treat me like you respect as your boss, even htough you don't.

Angela creates some truly wacky Mad-Libs....seriously a man eating dog food....CRAZY!

[Lightnin']

I did like the glasses thing, because they were really ugly glasses, and the final payoff with a frightened Jim leading her away.

I loved that Pam is basically blind without corrective lenses. Apparently, she wears coke-bottle contacts.

[Justin_Bailey]

I enjoyed this episode. Stanley was being a dick in the meeting, but he was apprpriately outraged at the fake firing. Michael handled the whole thing extremely childishly by trying to pretend it didn't happen, trying to see who else could do it, not ever confronting Stanley but instead coming up with the fake firing and then crying. At the end he wasn't nearly foceful enough, he just told Stanley not to talk back to him in front of the others. He shoudl have said that Stanley will not bring his crossword puzzles into meetings, he should have said, if you have a problem with me you come discuss it with me, my door is always open. Instead he was almost asking Stanley for a favor, basically saying at least treat me like you respect as your boss, even htough you don't.

I agree that Michael wasn't very forceful in looking for respect (or even general boss-employee attitudes) from Stanley, but I think (on some level) he's at least aware of some of all the racially offensive stuff he's said to Stanley and that he would be in deep shit (i.e. lose the job he loves so much) if he were to really challenge him.

[shy guy]

If Stanley is still useful to him as a salesman, yes it is.
Agreed. We saw in that episode where they all went on sales calls that Stanley definitely has a group of clients (namely, the group of black guys who made Ryan uncomfortable), who are probably pretty loyal to him after 10+ years of him working at D-M. I can see why Michael wouldn't want to mess that up.

Plus, Michael still likes Stanley even if Stanley doesn't like him.

Michael breaking down in tears is also totally in-character - it's exactly what he did when Oscar was similarly mean to him when Michael was being grossly inappropriate in regard to Oscar's coming out.

I actually really liked that whole interaction. Michael has been too much of a bufoon lately, and I thought the way he dealt with the Stanley situation showed that it's not that he doesn't know how to be a good boss, it's that most of the time he's just too preoccupied with trying to get everyone to like him. Once Stanley took that possibility off the table, Michael was able to do what he needed to instead of letting Stanley walk all over him.

My prediction for the end of the season is that Ryan will fire Jim, which will land Ryan himself in a world of trouble, as the higher-ups at D-M are clearly grooming Jim for upper management (and he probably would have gotten Ryan's job if he hadn't withdrawn himself from consideration).

I don't really see Ryan demoted back to Scranton, though; I imagine he'd be able to play his current job title into a decent position at another paper company rather than become a salesman again.

[ArizonaTeach]

Angela creates some truly wacky Mad-Libs....seriously a man eating dog food....CRAZY!Cat food. Even crazier!

[ZipperJJ]

My dad and I were on the edge of our seats for this episode, too (we get together to watch The Office) - begging Michael not to "fluffy fingers" Stanley. That would have been sooooooo bad.

I think Michael kept Stanley on also because he's really emotionally attached to the people in his office. He doesn't really have a life outside the office. He may or may not know that new people just wouldn't work in that office because Michael is so fucked up. So he'd much rather keep around the folks who know him than deal with new folks. Ryan used to be "new" and he blew through and kicked Michael's ass. The other new people from NYC didn't do well either.

How does Michael feel towards Andy? I forget their dynamics.

[Menocchio]

I see it coming down to Michael and Jim vs. Toby and Ryan. Michael manages to stall Jim's firing long enough for DMI to finally blow up in Ryan's face, and Ryan to get fired.

Michael takes Ryan's job. Jim takes Michael's job. Steve Carrel still appears semi-regularly, but uses the extra time to make more movies. Jim and Pam get engaged, but the fact that Jim is now Pam's boss complicates things.

Toby is just miserable.

[Acsenray]

Did anyone get a good look at Dwight's organizational chart?

Each box has a little icon related to the person

-- All the women's have pink "female" symbols and also lunar symbols to indicate menstruation (Phyllis's and Meredith's are crossed out)

-- The black guys have raised fists

-- Toby's has a Magen David.

-- Kevin: An American flag?

-- Andy: A silhouette of someone wearing a mortarboard and gown (Cornell graduate?)?

-- Oscar: Double "male" symbols.

-- Creed's name is in quotation marks

-- Devon White's whole box is X-ed out

[Dante]

How does Michael feel towards Andy? I forget their dynamics.Andy is to Michael as Michael is to Ryan.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I liked Pam "translating" for Kelly in the cold open. I didn't know what Kelly was babbling about either. It was hilarious that Pam was able to instantly understand it and translate it.

[shy guy]

Michael takes Ryan's job.
I don't see that happening. In that episode where Jan was going to sue D-M, Dave Wallace's notes on Michael said something to the effect that they'd never in a million years offer him a corporate position. I think Michael would have to do something huge to actually get them to seriously consider him for Jan's old position.

I think they'll offer it to Jim.

Re: Andy and Michael. I don't think they've interacted much since Andy got back from anger management.

Remember that when Andy first got to Scranton, his goal was to usurp Dwight's role as Michael's number 3 (behind Jim), and he basically started acting like a cracked-out Michael and wound up getting Dwight fired, totally alienating everybody in the Office, and having Michael hate him. He's much less ambitious post-anger management, but I think Michael still thinks he's kind of crazy.

[Acsenray]

Did anyone get a good look at Dwight's organizational chart?

Oh, and in emergency mode, the warehouse crew is apparently behind bars.

[drm]

Oh, and in emergency mode, the warehouse crew is apparently behind bars.

Was that who it was who was X'ed out?

[Liberal]

The show is definitely back on track as is evidenced by all the disagreement! :D

I'm with the people who think Ryan is the king dick and Toby is his prince, that the Pam with glasses subplot was funny (especially when Kevin was hitting on her), that Stanley went over the line, and that seeing Michael try to tickle Stanley would have been sublime. Also that Dwight conning Andy was great.

[The Shroud]

The show really has improved since the strike. After watching this episode, I went back and watched the episode where Michael works in telemarketing and Pam and Jim visit Schrute Farms. A relative snoozefest compared to these last 4 eps.

[Liberal]

Was that who it was who was X'ed out?It was Devon White. He was the guy Michael fired in the Halloween party episode when he had to let someone go. He sat across from Creed, and Creed essentially got him fired. He made one appearance (that particular episode), and was played by this guy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0008824/).

[Acsenray]

Was that who it was who was X'ed out?

Devon was X-ed out on the original chart. He was the one Michael fired in the Halloween episode.

[Interrobang!?]

I think they're laying the groundwork for Jim quitting Dunder Mifflin. Ryan and Toby were jackasses, and it's a bogus formal warning, but the underlying issues are true: Jim doesn't like his job. He doesn't devote any more effort to it than he has to. (Of course, the effort he does put in is plenty to perform well, which is why the warning is stupid.)

There have been several other times this season when Jim is, subtly, reminded that he's not somewhere he really wants to be. He wants to be with Pam -- and that seems to be going well, and I hope it continues to -- but he doesn't want to become Michael. Not even a non-buffoonish Michael. And that's the fate that keeps peeking around the corner when he tries to be managerial.

So I'm betting he'll quit, or at least look for a different job.

How they'll keep him on the show, though, is another question...

[Don't Call Me Shirley]

So I'm betting he'll quit, or at least look for a different job.

How they'll keep him on the show, though, is another question...
Michael and Dwight have both gotten other jobs, and the cameras followed them both to their new jobs.

As creepy as Kevin hitting on Pam was, I'll admit that I see where he's coming from. The right girl, in the right pair of glasses, is irresistible to me. In fact, when I first saw Pam had glasses on, I got a little excited, until I realized that they were really ugly glasses that made her look silly.

[CJJ*]

While I liked the episode overall, I think Michael and Dwight's antics have really gotten out of hand; they are often the least-interesting characters for me because Michael has become a ridiculous buffoon and Dwight is a completely out-of-touch office-martinet.

With that said, I do think Michael partially redeemed himself (eventually) in diffusing the Stanley situation, although the "fake firing" that led up to it was an utterly unbelievable contrivance. I'll also note that Dwight's buy/resale of Andy's car was more about diminishing Andy in Angela's eyes than his usual disrespect for a fellow employee, a subplot that revealed a deeper motivation (compare that to the repeatedly unfunny "hobbit" comments Dwight made to Ryan's clubbing partner the week before, which were just stupid).

And I'm glad to see the show dealing with the more vicious aspects of office politics. B. J. Novak's character was pitch-perfect in the way he engaged Jim with bland small-talk about football just so he could get to the "while I have you here with Toby..." announcement. When he later accused Jim of defensiveness it was clearly designed to brush off Jim's objections and scare him a little at what further measures Ryan may take. "Watch your back" indeed.

Ryan personifies all the annoying aspects of corporate management: the perfunctory "That's a very good question...", the discussion of material possessions as a contest with subordinates, the grand "Hello" as he enters the office, the meticulously groomed "hip slacker in an expensive suit". Despite my loathing, he is by far the best character on the show. I really hope he isn't undone by what looks to be a "Bright Lights, Big City" ending, because I think he makes the show a much better, much "darker" comedy in places--though I wouldn't mind if Jim scored one against him before the season ends.

[hajario]

Very enjoyable episode. You just can't get too much Stanley and it was nice to finally see Darryl again.

One thing not mentioned so far was another fake proposal by Jim. Pam seems to really be enjoying it. Notice how Jim didn't disclose to Pam about his warning. I see a double cliff hanger at the end of the season, Jim proposes and gets fired.

[Don't Call Me Shirley]

the "fake firing" that led up to it was an utterly unbelievable contrivance.
That is not Michael's first "fake firing." He did it to Pam in the first season, with a trumped-up charge that she was stealing.

Notice how Jim didn't disclose to Pam about his warning.
I just assumed Jim didn't want to tell her about it right then, since Ryan said he spent too much time talking to Pam. Running straight to talk to Pam after that warning would be really stupid.

[Raygun99]

Another moment I liked that I haven't seen mentioned is Michael's stream of conciousness blending of every comedy routine ever into one at the end credits. "They should build the plane out of the airplane food!"

[CJJ*]

That is not Michael's first "fake firing." He did it to Pam in the first season, with a trumped-up charge that she was stealing.
Absolutely right, which is what made last night's "fake firing" so ridiculous; how could Michael possibly think it was a good idea? The writers were a little lazy on this one...

[dropzone]

I like how Darryl doesn't even blink at Michael's ridiculously offensive questions anymore.But he checked to see if the camera was there before he started his answer. The presence of a camera crew throws a monkey wrench into the office dynamics.

[Pashnish Ewing]

Absolutely right, which is what made last night's "fake firing" so ridiculous; how could Michael possibly think it was a good idea? The writers were a little lazy on this one...Michael fake fires Stanley, Stanley begs to keep his job, Michael tells him it was only fake, Stanley learns an important lesson. To me, that is a realistic expectation that Michael would have.

[Skammer]

Ha! Newsies. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104990/) I'd love to see Darryl in a newsies cap hawking papers.

Then again, looking at the credits, Batman was a Newsie too...

[msmith537]

I see it coming down to Michael and Jim vs. Toby and Ryan. Michael manages to stall Jim's firing long enough for DMI to finally blow up in Ryan's face, and Ryan to get fired.

Michael takes Ryan's job. Jim takes Michael's job. Steve Carrel still appears semi-regularly, but uses the extra time to make more movies. Jim and Pam get engaged, but the fact that Jim is now Pam's boss complicates things.


I don't think you can have a show without Michael. I think what has to happen is Ryan self destructs and Jim gets promoted to Ryan's position. That will also help derail the Jim & Pam thing out off it's current inevitable track by creating conflict as Jim has to move to NYC. At this point, Ryan can be pretty much written out of the show. I really don't see where else his character could go.

[hajario]

At this point, Ryan can be pretty much written out of the show. I really don't see where else his character could go.

The actor who plays Ryan (as well as Toby and Kelly) is also a writer/producer of the show. I doubt he's going anywhere. A demotion back to Scranton, working for Jim, would be perfect.

[drm]

I don't think you can have a show without Michael. I think what has to happen is Ryan self destructs and Jim gets promoted to Ryan's position. That will also help derail the Jim & Pam thing out off it's current inevitable track by creating conflict as Jim has to move to NYC. At this point, Ryan can be pretty much written out of the show. I really don't see where else his character could go.

I don't really get the Jim moving to NY thing. He already (basically) turned down Ryan's job because of Pam, why would he take it now, unless he could perform the same duties based in Scranton.

[drm]

It was Devon White. He was the guy Michael fired in the Halloween party episode when he had to let someone go. He sat across from Creed, and Creed essentially got him fired. He made one appearance (that particular episode), and was played by this guy (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0008824/).

Dang, completely forgot who that was. Thanks (to acsenray as well)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I don't really get the Jim moving to NY thing. He already (basically) turned down Ryan's job because of Pam, why would he take it now, unless he could perform the same duties based in Scranton.
There are ways to finesse that, he could be offered a lot of money, Pam could encourage it, he could decide that he wants to move out of his current professional rut.

There is allegedly going to be a pregnancy in the finale (though it's undisclosed exactly who is going to be up the spout), if it's Pam, that would be a kick in the ass to take his career more seriously.

[drm]

The pregnancy thing DOES throw a wrench into things, especially if it's Pam. In which case, I'd buy him taking a job in NY if the money is good. The kicker is, Pam would have to go with him.

[I'm No Saint]

It sounds like all this is leading up to the much-rumored spin-off.

[Raygun99]

The best pregnancy story, to me, at least, would be with Angela, and her not being sure if Andy or Dwight was the father.

[Skammer]

The best pregnancy story, to me, at least, would be with Angela, and her not being sure if Andy or Dwight was the father.
Since the actress who plays Angela actually is pregnant, IRL, this would be a convenient way of not having to keep filming her behind desks and plants as they are doing now.

[Acsenray]

There is allegedly going to be a pregnancy in the finale (though it's undisclosed exactly who is going to be up the spout), if it's Pam, that would be a kick in the ass to take his career more seriously.

Oh, Dio, why'd ya screw me on this?

I know the title says "open spoilers," but I assumed that meant for this episode, not future ones. Do I have to stop reading Cafe Society altogether to avoid knowledge of future episodes?

[Bob Ducca]

It sounds like all this is leading up to the much-rumored spin-off.

Not much of a rumor at this point. NBC has it on their upfront for midseason next year.

[alphaboi867]

Oh, Dio, why'd ya screw me on this?

I know the title says "open spoilers," but I assumed that meant for this episode, not future ones. Do I have to stop reading Cafe Society altogether to avoid knowledge of future episodes?

Does it really count as a spoiler for the next episode if it was in the preview that aired after this week's episode? :rolleyes:

[Acsenray]

I don't watch the previews.

[MaxTheVool]

Does it really count as a spoiler for the next episode if it was in the preview that aired after this week's episode? :rolleyes:

In some threads (Lost) it officially does not. In some (24) it officially does. I always say that you should err on the side of not spoiling people who don't want to be spoiled, although lots of people seem to get pretty up in arms about excessive spoilage.

I also never watch the "next week on" for any show.

[msmith537]

The actor who plays Ryan (as well as Toby and Kelly) is also a writer/producer of the show. I doubt he's going anywhere. A demotion back to Scranton, working for Jim, would be perfect.


Right, but he might not want to actually act in it. Until recently, his character was always relatively minor. Mostly hanging out in the background and being frustrated by Michaels constant inane errends and man crush.


As for spinoffs, I've heard everything from Dwight to Toby to the accounting staff so I don't know what to believe. Ryan probably makes the most sense as I just don't think they can go anywhere else with him in the show. I can't imagine that he would take a demotion back to Scranton. Even if he gets fired, he can't find another job in NY? Unless, of course, between his lifestyle, drug use and appartment he has overextended himself and is forced to move back.

[Menocchio]

I don't think you can have a show without Michael.
And I don't see how you could do it without PB&J, and I think Carell is more likely to leave for greener pastures than Krasinski and Fischer.

[SmackFu]

Here's a super-huge publicity photo of Dwight holding the org chart:
http://www.sparklies.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=468&pos=4

[SmackFu]

Oh, even better, an official PDF:
http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/downloads/dunder_mifflin_org_chart.pdf

[olivesmarch4th]

I tend to take a more sympathetic view of Ryan. He is, after all, a drug addict. And I think his official warning to Jim was somewhat justified, seeing as he's always screwing around. There have been repeated references to the fact that Jim doesn't apply himself because he's not passionate about the work he does. He's wistful, he gets slightly jealous of Pam when she works on her graphic design stuff, and he almost always clearly wants to be doing something else. So it stands to reason that he wouldn't be fully applying himself. Though there does seem to be some kind of vindictive aspect on Ryan's behalf since Jim, despite being a lukewarm screwoff, is a pretty good sales representative.

The biggest dick in all of this seems to be Toby, who initially was just a sympathetic nice guy stuck in a thankless job, but is increasingly becoming traitorous and creepy. It almost justifies Michael's feelings about him.

[Gangster Octopus]

Oh, even better, an official PDF:
http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/downloads/dunder_mifflin_org_chart.pdf

Holy crap, that's hilarious. I like how Dwight is slightly higher than Jim on the org chart. And Creed's name is in quotes.

[msmith537]

So Dwight did put Angela in charge of the women, according to the pink dotted lines. :D



I tend to take a more sympathetic view of Ryan. He is, after all, a drug addict. And I think his official warning to Jim was somewhat justified, seeing as he's always screwing around. There have been repeated references to the fact that Jim doesn't apply himself because he's not passionate about the work he does. He's wistful, he gets slightly jealous of Pam when she works on her graphic design stuff, and he almost always clearly wants to be doing something else. So it stands to reason that he wouldn't be fully applying himself. Though there does seem to be some kind of vindictive aspect on Ryan's behalf since Jim, despite being a lukewarm screwoff, is a pretty good sales representative.


Forget drug addict. To also play Ryan's advocate, Ryan is in a very senior position that he is probably too young and inexperienced for. He's trying to apply his aggressive MBA Business 2.0 style of management to a company of people who aren't very ambitious. He's also trying to build support for the new corporate web site and he probably doesn't want Jim undermining it by going to his boss with his usual repertoire of sarcastic one liners and flippant comments. I hate to say it, but from a management perspective, Jim is a potential nightmare. He's good enough at his job that he's needed around and he seems well liked by his coworkers but he doesn't want to be there and uses every opportunity to make that known. He does spend more time playing practical jokes and talking with Pam than working.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Jim's complaints were completely valid and not flippant at all. He was correct that DM's one big strength is its customer service and Ryan's buggy, predator infested website was undermining that.

Ryan is a cocky little twerp who's never made a sale, who's failing as an executive and who is starting to nurse a personal grudge against Jim. I also don't see Jim as a problem worker. he might be if he didn't make his sales, but he does. I also don't think he demonstrates a bad attitude at work. The only time we hear him confess that he's not happy there is in TH's. It's not like he goes around bitching and complaining all day or bringing a negative energy. He's upbeat and supportive to coworkers (except for Dwight), and he actually makes the job more bearable for others with his humor.

[Max the Immortal]

I liked the part when Phyllis chimed in with "When I was a little girl..." and never actually got around to saying anything relevant to the conversation.

I also enjoyed the fake-out at the end of the first act. For a minute it looked like Dwight was about to gain temporary authority over the entire office (with hilarious consequences!), but then Michael just shuts him down. Of course, I've been spending way too much time browsing the tvtropes.org wiki lately, so my perspective may be a bit skewed.

[Ice Cream Man]

Holy crap, that's hilarious. I like how Dwight is slightly higher than Jim on the org chart. And Creed's name is in quotes.

Did anyone else notice how Dwight has the week of every woman's period on the chart?!

[Mr Shine]

I like Tobey's "Star of David- ??"

Edit: What's the arrow going from Lonnie back to Michael supposed to mean?

[shy guy]

I actually tend to agree with the more sympathetic view toward Ryan, and that's something I've been saying ever since he got the position in the first place.

He may be handling things with less diplomacy than he probably should be, but at least he's trying to do new stuff. And it's not like the website has been a total failure or anything - it was working really well when it first launched.

Frankly, I don't think that what Ryan said to Jim was very far off. The pranks that Jim mostly occupies his days with could get him fired if Michael wasn't so lenient and Dwight wasn't so weird about the whole thing. I also tend to find his complaint about the website sort of asinine - what about the website preclues good customer service? Does it not display the office's phone number or something? If I was Ryan, I'd probably be somewhat miffed that he went over my head and complained to my boss, too.

Something that's been bugging me about the show for a little while now, actually, is that Jim is getting to be too much of a jerk without any consequences at all. In the first season, you had Dwight getting the better of him sometimes (like when Dwight stole Jim's biggest sale of the year), and in general the fact that he never really got what he wanted (Pam) generated symapthy toward him.

But now that he's with Pam, Dwight is no longer a threat, and he continues to be a wise-ass and occasionally nasty, he's really just kind of a tool.

[Justin_Bailey]

But now that he's with Pam, Dwight is no longer a threat, and he continues to be a wise-ass and occasionally nasty, he's really just kind of a tool.

What about last week when the idiot security guard locked them all in and everyone blamed Jim?

[Liberal]

The pranks that Jim mostly occupies his days with could get him fired if Michael wasn't so lenient and Dwight wasn't so weird about the whole thing.Maybe so, but as they say, "Az der bubbe vot gehat baytzim vot zie geven mein zayde". If my grandmother had balls, she'd be my grandfather. Jim does indeed find himself in an environment with crazy people, and so must function accordingly.

[shy guy]

What about last week when the idiot security guard locked them all in and everyone blamed Jim?
Yeah, I did like that about that episode. Same thing when his idea about combining the birthday parties blew up in his face.

[Interrobang!?]

Ironically, Ryan gives Jim a final warning for behavior that Stanley exhibits much more blatantly -- lack of respect, minimal effort.

[SmellMyWort]

What about last week when the idiot security guard locked them all in and everyone blamed Jim?

It was Jim's idea to stay late instead of coming in on Saturday. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

[Merijeek]

It was Jim's idea to stay late instead of coming in on Saturday. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

But if Jim was as on the ball as he thinks he is (and he's not - he's closer to Michael than he'd like to admit, just without the heavy dose of social retardation), he would have gotten ahold of the security guard or left a note or something.

I assume it's SOP to call the guard not to lock the gate - it's wrong to blame the guard. He was doing what he was supposed to do.

-Joe

[Iggins]

I assume it's SOP to call the guard not to lock the gate - it's wrong to blame the guard. He was doing what he was supposed to do.

-Joe


As mentioned last week, no security guard would have locked the gate with all the cars still in the lot. The guard should have called the D-M office to check in.

[Amp]

I assume it's SOP to call the guard not to lock the gate - it's wrong to blame the guard. He was doing what he was supposed to do.
I don't know, what kind of guard locks up a parking lot full of cars without checking with anyone first? I would assume it would be SOP for the guard to do final rounds and call the offices if anything seems out of the ordinary, like a parking lot full of cars.

[Merijeek]

As mentioned last week, no security guard would have locked the gate with all the cars still in the lot. The guard should have called the D-M office to check in.

I disagree. Outings like the Booze Cruise could very well involve everyone at the office piling into a bus at the office and heading to the dock.

And there you have a lot full of cars.

-Joe

[SmellMyWort]

But if Jim was as on the ball as he thinks he is (and he's not - he's closer to Michael than he'd like to admit, just without the heavy dose of social retardation), he would have gotten ahold of the security guard or left a note or something.

I assume it's SOP to call the guard not to lock the gate - it's wrong to blame the guard. He was doing what he was supposed to do.

-Joe

Anyone else could have remembered the security guard too. They all agreed to stay late and they all forgot about the guard, but Jim took the fall since it was his plan.

[Justin_Bailey]

I disagree. Outings like the Booze Cruise could very well involve everyone at the office piling into a bus at the office and heading to the dock.

I think you'd be in the minority then. The security guard locked in 20-30 cars, why would you do that unless you knew the building was empty?

Not to mention the fact that the security guard would have to be blind to miss all of the lights still on in the building (which would likely be his job to shut off as well).

[Gangster Octopus]

Anybody know how many episdoes are left this season?

[hajario]

He may be handling things with less diplomacy than he probably should be, but at least he's trying to do new stuff. And it's not like the website has been a total failure or anything - it was working really well when it first launched.

They had some sort of website before with general information. The new website was supposed to make additional sales that the staff would make. It has been a total failure. He added useless shit to it like the facebook rip-off. What the fuck? Then he had Scranton fraudulently fake that the sales that they made be credited to the web page. Ryan is tool.

[Kid_A]

There's going to be one 30 minute episode and one 1 hour episode.

And if you like being left completely in the dark then take my word for it. One of the episode titles is a spoiler.

[Merijeek]

They had some sort of website before with general information. The new website was supposed to make additional sales that the staff would make. It has been a total failure. He added useless shit to it like the facebook rip-off. What the fuck? Then he had Scranton fraudulently fake that the sales that they made be credited to the web page. Ryan is tool.

Yeah, is there a reason one phone call to CFO-Guy wouldn't take Ryan down? That thing about re-entering through the website is pretty much Ryan screwing everyone to make himself look good - the upshot being the website looks good, people get downsized, and now D-M loses a lot of sales.

-Joe

[shy guy]

They had some sort of website before with general information. The new website was supposed to make additional sales that the staff would make. It has been a total failure. He added useless shit to it like the facebook rip-off. What the fuck? Then he had Scranton fraudulently fake that the sales that they made be credited to the web page. Ryan is tool.
I don't remember the general information website. All I remember is that when Ryan first brings up the idea, Jim says something like, "I didn't see what was wrong with our old web site" and points to a monitor that says something like "Under Construction: Coming Fall 2003" or something like that.

And then when the website first launched, it just barely undersold Dwight in a single day even after Dwight called in all of his big sales for the year.

It was definitely awful for Ryan to attribute sales to the site that sales associates made, and a social networking component was probably ill-adivsed, but the website thing doesn't seem to have been a complete failure. Especially since it hasn't been operational that long. And some people must be using it for them to have any sales at all to attribute to it, so it wasn't a bad idea, really.

Ryan is clearly way out of his depth, especially when it comes to interacting with his old co-workers, and he does seem to be getting less scrupulous since he's become a drug addict, but he's not that bad, I don't think. He just seems like someone who would have been a lot better off had he worked under Jim's old boss from Stamford rather than Michael Scott.

[muldoonthief]

It was definitely awful for Ryan to attribute sales to the site that sales associates made, and a social networking component was probably ill-adivsed, but the website thing doesn't seem to have been a complete failure. Especially since it hasn't been operational that long. And some people must be using it for them to have any sales at all to attribute to it, so it wasn't a bad idea, really.


I don't know - I'm betting IT, Legal, and HR would all consider "the website was invaded by pedophiles" the DEFINITION of a complete failure. And Ryan even said something like "They have to come in on Saturday to enter all their sales into the website. Which is what they were supposed to do in the first place...if the website had been working."

[shy guy]

I don't know - I'm betting IT, Legal, and HR would all consider "the website was invaded by pedophiles" the DEFINITION of a complete failure. And Ryan even said something like "They have to come in on Saturday to enter all their sales into the website. Which is what they were supposed to do in the first place...if the website had been working."
Well, you're definitely right, there. I didn't remember the coming in on Saturday thing.

Still, though, you'd think that all you'd have to do would be to jettison the social networking thing and clean up some bugs, and the website would basically be a fine idea. At the very least I can't blame Ryan for wanting to implement some of the stuff he learned in business school because, well, that's all he really knows.

There's no doubt that Ryan is kind of a jerk, of course, but I think that the things he's doing now are understandable considering his experience in Scranton.

[Liberal]

But by that same token, the things Jim is doing are understandable considering his experience in Scranton.

[Mr Shine]

I asked it on the last page, but it may have been caught in the noise:

Does anyone know why there's a line going back from Lonnie to Michael on Dwight's org chart?

[vertizontal]

and what's the significance of Creed's name being in quotes?

[Kid_A]

Dwight doesn't believe that Creed is his real name.

And having seen all of his past behaviour, I'm going to side with Dwight on this one.

[Liberal]

For Lonnie, I think it's because he intimidates Michael. He's yelled at Michael a few times, including in front of the staff. For Creed, I think it's because he's the kind of person who might make up a name — an alias — for himself, and Dwight knows it. Those are my guesses, anyway.

[Acsenray]

and what's the significance of Creed's name being in quotes?

Remember when Creed revealed that he has a passport in the name of William Charles Schneider? (which is incidentally the real name of the the readl Creed Bratton)

[Skald the Rhymer]

Ryan is going to get slammed so hard that it will be satisfying to people who don't even watch The Office. That was a seriously evil move.

But this was a great episode.


Can those of us who missed it get a recap? I missed all but the last few minutes.

[FinnAgain]

Can those of us who missed it get a recap? I missed all but the last few minutes.

The episodes are all for free on (NBC's?) website. You have to watch some annoying commercials, but my fiancee and I just got caught up on this whole season over the weekend.

[choie]

They're also available on Hulu (http://www.hulu.com), and for a couple of bucks you can download 'em uncut/without commercials on Amazon's Unbox.

Man, Toby's turned into quite the little Iago, hasn't he? I think it's delicious that Michael's seemingly unmotivated hatred of the "skeevy little perv" has proven slightly prescient, though of course -- since this is Michael -- his hatred is instinctive and irrational, and has little to do with the real reasons one might have for disliking Toby.

Stanley's "Did I stutter?" outburst can't be justified by Michael's racial "hey you're urban, help us out?" remark, because Stanely was clearly not listening and didn't hear the comment in the first place. I don't blame Stanley's later smackdown after the fake-firing, but even then he shouldn't have done it in public. Of course Michael practically issued a written invitation for it, with his "do you have anything to say to me?" request. Oh Michael.

I just adore Carell in this role. You can see every ounce of pain and fear in his eyes when Stanley barks at him, and then Michael just shuts down and tries to blow the whole thing off as a face-saving joke. My mouth literally dropped open when Toby then came into his office and fanned the flames of discontent. What an ass.

And then Michael went over to Stanley and gave the guy an out himself, saying he didn't expect an apology and none was needed. Stanley could totally have acknolwedged Michael's gesture -- Michael wanted him to do it, he needed him to do it -- but no, Stanley is too freakin' stubborn (and man, he must be a real joy as a husband!). Here again I was on Michael's side. It's true he's a horrible boss. And yet... The thing about Michael is that he's ignorant and all kinds of inappropriate, but he's never malicious and doesn't mean to hurt anyone. (Except Toby. Always, always excepting Toby!) I expect more of semi-normal people like Stanley. Later, I couldn't have been happier when Michael shocked us with that moment of off-camera reasonableness, telling Stanley "okay, I accept that you don't respect me, but you can't talk to me like that." For Michael Gary Scott to accept that someone doesn't respect him? Man, that is a huuuuuuge deal. A big character moment for him. Michael's whole raison d'etre is desperately needing others' approval. I wanted to cheer.

And the Jim/Ryan/Toby dynamic. I really would have liked to see Jim stand up for himself a little more, as in, "uh my sales numbers are still excellent, so WTF are you talking about?" (but in a professional manner, obviously). But in fairness he did try to get Ryan to explain himself, but Ryan hilariously claimed that Jim was getting 'defensive' and claimed it was simply constructive criticism. And former good guy Toby sits on listening and being his typical passive aggressive self. A man may smile, and smile, and be a villain.

Oh and finally: poor Phyllis and her "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard!" remark. I have the feeling that every bit of sass at Michael from now on is gonna be met by "okay, everyone out of here but ____." He clearly thinks he's got a winning technique now.

A great episode. I hate that there are only two eps left!

[cactus waltz]

As some here takes an understanding stance towards Ryan's behaviour, I think Toby's, as well, is human and understandable. Toby has been harassed by Michael since day one for no reason at all. I am not buying that Michael somehow foresaw Toby's present change of character, he was simply cruel to Toby and poked at very sensitive spots in an unprofessional way.

Up until this point, Toby has showcased to be one of the most rational and level-headed in the staff. Unfortunately, he also has a broken soul. He seemingly has few to no friends, he is divorced, he is alienated by his boss and his love for Pam is unrequited. This all doesn't excuse his jerkish behaviour (frankly, I am more upset by his act to ask Michael to reprimand Stanley, because that decision just didn't seem like something that should have been affected by Toby's own personal state), but it makes it less evil in my eyes.

[interface2x]

I seem to remember during the writers strike that they said, should the show come back, there would be
an explanation of exactly why Michael hates Toby. I don't know if it's just Toby's current behavior or if we will find out something specific, though.
I haven't read any other spoilers, so I don't know if this is included in those. It's not really a spoiler per se, but I'm erring on the side of caution.

[Liberal]

Wow, choie, that was great commentary. Thanks!

[Indygrrl]

Are you guys saying Ryan is a drug addict just because of the way he acted the night he partied with Michael and Dwight? Or have there been other incidents?

[Liberal]

Wasn't that enough?

The shaky hand. The trips to the bathroom. The wide-eyed delight at seeing Michael and Dwight (itself a shock to me). The wiping of the nose with the finger. The incoherent rambling about string theory (with Michael, of all people.) The question about "a friend" who's a drug addict.

What more do you need?

[Indygrrl]

Wasn't that enough?

The shaky hand. The trips to the bathroom. The wide-eyed delight at seeing Michael and Dwight (itself a shock to me). The wiping of the nose with the finger. The incoherent rambling about string theory (with Michael, of all people.) The question about "a friend" who's a drug addict.

What more do you need?

I'd need more than one night's partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts. I thought maybe he was showing up to work like that, or some other evidence that his drug use was problematic.

[D_Odds]

I'd need more than one night's partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts. I thought maybe he was showing up to work like that, or some other evidence that his drug use was problematic.What you will need, then, is lessons on TV shorthand. This is a farcical sitcom, not a family drama showing the the downward spiral of recreational use to fatal addiction. The fact that so much time was spent on it shows that it is not "recreational".

[Acsenray]

I'd need more than one night's partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts.

Do they also admit out loud to having a drug problem, like Ryan did?

[Indygrrl]

Do they also admit out loud to having a drug problem, like Ryan did?

Ok, now that would lead me to believe he had a drug problem. But, I must have missed that part. ;)

[Hal Briston]

What you will need, then, is lessons on TV shorthand. This is a farcical sitcom, not a family drama showing the the downward spiral of recreational use to fatal addiction. The fact that so much time was spent on it shows that it is not "recreational".Bingo...unless a character clearly says "This is my first time doing <whatever drug>", then that character is a habitual user.

It's like having a female character casually mention that her stomach is upset in the morning -- that can only mean that the character is pregnant.

[Indygrrl]

Bingo...unless a character clearly says "This is my first time doing <whatever drug>", then that character is a habitual user.

I can't think of any other sitcom that had a drug user come up like that. But I can remember a few alcoholics.

[D_Odds]

Ok, now that would lead me to believe he had a drug problem. But, I must have missed that part. ;)
Well, he only asked about a friend, so it couldn't be about him. Right? :cool:

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'd need more than one night's partying to call someone a drug addict. Plenty of people do coke recreationally without being addicts. I thought maybe he was showing up to work like that, or some other evidence that his drug use was problematic.
Practically every cokehead I've ever known claimed they weren't addicts and that they were just doing it "recreationally" (is there any other way to use it?). Cocaine addiction develops very quickly and not that many people can do it for long without getting strung out. I don't care what they tell you.

Secondly, it's a TV show. The implication that the character was strung out was clear and unambiguous in television terms. When a TV character keeps going into the bathroom and coming out rubbing his nose, that's television code for "drug problem." Sitcoms do not show characters casually using cocaine without having a problem with it. (as a matter of fact, I believe there is some kind of FCC rule which states that drug use cannot be shown in a positive light or shown without consequences).

And just in case there was any doubt, Ryan was shown asking about a fictional "friend" with a drug problem.

[Mikemike2]

I was wondering if the warning that Ryan gave to Jim was official, in that it was going to be written up and be part of Jim's record. If it was, then it was really awful to treat it in such a casual manner, not backed up by any specific incident.

[msmith537]

I was wondering if the warning that Ryan gave to Jim was official, in that it was going to be written up and be part of Jim's record. If it was, then it was really awful to treat it in such a casual manner, not backed up by any specific incident.


Well this is the same Ryan who wanted to outsource Kelly's job to India (yes..she's Indian too...I know it's confusing).

[choie]

Thanks for the praise, Liberal! Wasn't expecting that. :)

Indygrrl, in addition to Ryan's acknowledgement in the clubbing episode (one has to presume his question about "a friend" was a ruse ... I mean, it came out of nowhere except his obvious unhappiness and concern), Ryan has been acting hyped-up for some time, especially his rambling business jargon mishmash in Launch Party:

RYAN (is in a huge corner office, talking fast and confident): Yeah. I created a website. Look, at the end of the day, apples to apples flying at 30,000 feet. This is a paper company and I don't want us to get lost in the weeds or into a beauty contest--

VOICE OF BOSS: I told you I don't want you doing these things in here. You can use your own office or do it in the hall.

(QUICK CUT TO NEW, SMALLER OFFICE)

RYAN (still very fast): Convergence! Viral marketing! We're going guerrilla! We're takin' it to the streets while keeping an eye on the street -- Wall Street. I don't want to reinvent the wheel here. In other words, it is what it is. (meaningfully) Buyin' paper just became fun.

Admittedly he could just be drinking too much Red Bull. But coupled with his behavior at the night club and in his wee NYC apartment, I think the writers are making it pretty clear.

[Justin_Bailey]

(as a matter of fact, I believe there is some kind of FCC rule which states that drug use cannot be shown in a positive light or shown without consequences)

That 70s Show and it's constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

That 70s Show and it's constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello.
Maybe they changed it or maybe it was a self-imposed standard, but I could swear there at least used to be some kind of prohibition (self-imposed or otherwise) on showing positive depictions of drug use. I can't find it by Googling, though. Oh, well.

[Pashnish Ewing]

That 70s Show and it's constant pot use (with no consequences) says hello.I'm not too familiar with That 70s Show, but they never actually talk about smoking pot, do they? I thought it was all inferred.

[Skald the Rhymer]

I'm not too familiar with That 70s Show, but they never actually talk about smoking pot, do they? I thought it was all inferred.


When the four main guys (and sometimes Donna) are in the circle in the basement, they're generally smoking pot.

But I disagree that there weren't consequences. Eric & Steven were always afraid of Red and Kitty finding their stash, and Steven gets arrested when he claims that Jackie's pot is his.

[Renob]

As some here takes an understanding stance towards Ryan's behaviour, I think Toby's, as well, is human and understandable. Toby has been harassed by Michael since day one for no reason at all. I am not buying that Michael somehow foresaw Toby's present change of character, he was simply cruel to Toby and poked at very sensitive spots in an unprofessional way.
Well, we don't know what came first. When the series started Michael's hatred of Toby was established but was that a result of Toby's actions before the show started?

I tend to think that Michael's treatment of Toby isn't entirely irrational. Remember the episode earlier this season when Jim was in charge and Toby came in his office, whining about his birthday? As Jim expressed, Toby can be frustrating. Perhaps a few years of that -- as well as the fact that Toby reports directly to corporate, not Michael -- explains a lot of Michael's hatred.

Up until this point, Toby has showcased to be one of the most rational and level-headed in the staff. Unfortunately, he also has a broken soul. He seemingly has few to no friends, he is divorced, he is alienated by his boss and his love for Pam is unrequited. This all doesn't excuse his jerkish behaviour (frankly, I am more upset by his act to ask Michael to reprimand Stanley, because that decision just didn't seem like something that should have been affected by Toby's own personal state), but it makes it less evil in my eyes.
Sorry, but Toby's pathetic life may be the result of his actions. Perhaps no one can get along with him. The jerkish behavior he's exhibiting now may have existed all along and explain his lack of friends, his divorce, his hatred by Michael, etc.

[Baldwin]

I love when you can see Darryl mentally how much "Black" nonsense he can get Michael to believe. "Fluffy-fingers" was pretty good.

Actually, I'd like to see an episode that just shows a day in the life of the warehouse crew; I'd like to see what kind of boss Darryl is.

[cactus waltz]

Sorry, but Toby's pathetic life may be the result of his actions. Perhaps no one can get along with him. The jerkish behavior he's exhibiting now may have existed all along and explain his lack of friends, his divorce, his hatred by Michael, etc.

You're right. I didn't concider that. It was just that he came off as really likeable and rational in the first seasons that led me to believe he was treated unfairly. Also, I suppose, that fact that he's HR -- typically a branch that requires social competence.

[choie]

Also, I suppose, that fact that he's HR -- typically a branch that requires social competence.

HA! What episode was this joke in? :D

(Just kidding, but seriously, I've met several HR people in my career who weren't resources and barely counted as human. Social competence doesn't appear to be a requirement of the position.)

I think Michael dislikes Toby primarily for the obvious reason: Michael sees him as a spoilsport for his absurd shenanigans. However, I also have a rather bizarre sense that beyond all the truckloads of bluster, insecurity, ignorance and immaturity, Michael often displays childlike, almost preternatural moments of insight. He doesn't come to these moments intellectually, but accidentally. He's the type to slip on the banana peel of life only to land on the truth.

In other words, though he hates Toby on a gut level and comes up with all sorts of scattershot reasons -- which almost no one (including the audience) believes or pays much attention to -- Michael has actually seen through Toby's passive aggressive, envious and surprisingly vindictive self. After spending so much time blurting out only the over-the-top TobyHate, Michael just can't articulate a realistic version of Toby's flaws.

He's like the boy who cried wolf. Or at least the boy who cried "That's what she said."

[Acsenray]

Having seen the third deleted scene, I am pretty certain that Toby had nothing to do with Jim's reprimand. It was all Ryan. Furthermore, I don't think that this one small incident, even if Toby was slightly involved, makes Toby into a "pathetic" or "jerkish" person all-round. I think the deleted scene is pretty unambiguous. Going after Jim was not Toby's idea. The only reason he fixated on the "Pam" stuff in his talking head is because that's what his own mind is stuck on.

All of the characters are shown to be well-rounded. Which means that they don't always show their best sides. No matter who you are, there's someone who thinks you're a jerk for something you've done. Jim can be a jerk, Dwight can be a jerk, Michael can be a jerk, and Toby can be a jerk. But that doesn't undermine the fact that Toby and Jim are both pretty decent people.

[Hal Briston]

Almost forgot to mention just how disappointed I am in Jim. My respect for him has dropped drastically.


Eagles fan...ugh...

[pepperlandgirl]

In other words, though he hates Toby on a gut level and comes up with all sorts of scattershot reasons -- which almost no one (including the audience) believes or pays much attention to -- Michael has actually seen through Toby's passive aggressive, envious and surprisingly vindictive self. After spending so much time blurting out only the over-the-top TobyHate, Michael just can't articulate a realistic version of Toby's flaws.



This makes a lot of sense to me, mainly because of Michael's line to Toby in early S2. "I hate so much about the way you choose to be."

[mshar253]

Almost forgot to mention just how disappointed I am in Jim. My respect for him has dropped drastically.


Eagles fan...ugh...

He's also a Sixers fan (according to the interview for the corporate position in the finale of last season). As a result, he can do no wrong in my book. :)

[Lunar Saltlick]

I love when you can see Darryl mentally how much "Black" nonsense he can get Michael to believe. "Fluffy-fingers" was pretty good.

Actually, I'd like to see an episode that just shows a day in the life of the warehouse crew; I'd like to see what kind of boss Darryl is.
Darryl's a lot sharper than Michael, in any case. I'd like to see Darryl run the office; we've already seen what Michael can do in the warehouse, and that was just a visit.

This episode was awful. It started out promisingly enough, and for about twenty minutes, Stanley was my hero (Do you have any sense?! At all?!). For a brief moment, I thought the writers had finally found a passage through the cartoonish fog that is Michael. But then Stanley caved and essentially made nice and it was business as usual. The Ryan/Toby/Jim bit is almost as bad. The writing is increasingly desperate. Just come up with a conflict, no matter how ridiculously contrived or lame. So what's next? Creed, Dwight and Pam in a threesome? Meredith and Ryan in a crack house? Jan running the warehouse?

This show went to hell when Ryan jumped from temp/intern to Michael's boss. Since then, the writers have decided they can just do anything, and no one has to remain in character, and Michael can be as ridiculous as they need him to be. Anything goes.

[RandMcnally]

I have a question about an episode a few seasons ago.

In season two's "The Fight" Pam and Jim are flirting when Jim picks Pam up and she goes, "OMG put me down, put me down."

Why did she do that?

[wasson]

She felt his boner.

[RandMcnally]

She felt his boner.


That's what I thought but wasn't sure.

Thanks.

[Menocchio]

I have a question about an episode a few seasons ago.

In season two's "The Fight" Pam and Jim are flirting when Jim picks Pam up and she goes, "OMG put me down, put me down."

Why did she do that?
He crossed the line. Verbal flirting is OK, physical contact is too far.

[Baldwin]

This episode was awful. It started out promisingly enough, and for about twenty minutes, Stanley was my hero (Do you have any sense?! At all?!). For a brief moment, I thought the writers had finally found a passage through the cartoonish fog that is Michael. But then Stanley caved and essentially made nice and it was business as usual. The Ryan/Toby/Jim bit is almost as bad. The writing is increasingly desperate. Just come up with a conflict, no matter how ridiculously contrived or lame.Neither of those conflicts were contrived; they both came from realistic, long-simmering tensions.

[RandMcnally]

He crossed the line. Verbal flirting is OK, physical contact is too far.


But she was laughing going along with it and then all of a sudden she changed from "Haha" to "OMG!"

[pricciar]

I have a question about an episode a few seasons ago.

In season two's "The Fight" Pam and Jim are flirting when Jim picks Pam up and she goes, "OMG put me down, put me down."

Why did she do that?


She did that because she noticed that Meredith saw them looking at them having fun and she realized what it would look like to others. It had nothing to do with boners. That's in Sexual Harassment when Michael gets one from hugging Phyllis.

[choie]

Yes, the change occured when Pam noticed that Meredith had turned around and was seeing them. The 'spotlight' clearly made Pam self-conscious about the physical contact w/Jim, and thus she felt embarrassed and guilty. Totally human of her to freeze Jim out at that point.

Back to Did I Stutter: I gotta agree with Baldwin. I can't fathom how this episode seemed like it was 'outrageous'; hell, it was the least outrageous episode this season. It's very very believable for Stanley both to blow up (he's been simmering since Day One and has been shown to have a temper) and to 'cave' -- though frankly I don't see how it's 'caving' for an employee to acknowledge the fact that one shouldn't yell vitriol at one's boss! Stanley has long shown that he wants to stay at DM and is waiting out the years till retirement. Despite his contempt for Michael, Stanely doesn't want to go anywhere.

This was a down-to-earth, character-based episode that could have come straight from Season 2. I loved it.

[Lunar Saltlick]

...I can't fathom how this episode seemed like it was 'outrageous'...
Outrageous, no; I never said outrageous. Terrible, yes. The fake firing in front of the entire office was yet another example of the writers willing to have Michael do or say anything -- absolutely anything at all. That's not outrageous, it's just really, really stupid. The beauty of it was that Stanley blasted him, which should have led to some kind of actual development. Instead, Stanley caved, and it's business as usual. Stanley should rip into his boss, and he should do it every chance he gets. They all should. The boss is a ridiculously cartoonish ass.

This could be a great show, but instead it's just a sitcom because of the lazy writing. Really, the only episode I've liked in a long time was The Deposition. Dark, nasty and cringeworthy -- back to the original spirit of The Office.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No, Stanley was a piece of shit for doing that. In real life he would have been fired.

[Acsenray]

I disagree. I think that this is one of the few recent episodes in which Michael has been completely believable. He didn't go anywhere near cartoonish, like with the driving into the lake and such.

Stanley did rip into his boss. But it was also completely believable that in the end, he would cave in order to keep his job.

[woodstockbirdybird]

I disagree. I think that this is one of the few recent episodes in which Michael has been completely believable. He didn't go anywhere near cartoonish, like with the driving into the lake and such.

Stanley did rip into his boss. But it was also completely believable that in the end, he would cave in order to keep his job.

I agree completely. It's believable that a worker might explode like that, especially with a boss like Michael, but every single time I've seen something similar happen in the real world, they end up "caving" to keep their jobs. I'd find it far more sitcom-y if Stanley just left because he wanted the last word, or if Michael gave in and let him continue to get away with the attitude.

[SenorBeef]

Remember when Michael fake-fired Pam in season 2? The action has precedent and is in character. The context was different, though - Michael was even less justified with that, it was pretty much random.

I agree that the show is getting more ridiculous, but the fake firing isn't the best example of that - it's somewhat typical Michael behavior.

[Lunar Saltlick]

The show went beyond ridiculous ages ago. In real life, Michael would be out on his ass in a flash. Managers can't fake-fire people in front of the entire office (and pull all the other idiotic crap Michael has pulled) and still keep their jobs, even if they're the king of sales, which is always the eventual fallback position in these arguments.

At best, Michael would be busted down to salesman. He'd never be allowed to manage anyone, ever. I'd love to see Stanley lead the revolt.

[Soapbox Monkey]

Remember when Michael fake-fired Pam in season 2?

That was actually in the pilot episode.

[Rubystreak]

No, Stanley was a piece of shit for doing that. In real life he would have been fired.

In real life, Michael would have been fired ages ago for his many, many inappropriate, racist, sexist, and downright stupid actions. I mean, if we're going to talk about who would have been fired in real life... this is so far from real life, how are we going to hold Stanley to those standards and forget all the provocation that led up to this? Stanley behaved realistically, if jerkishly, in an unrealistic overall scenario. I can see why he'd act as he did. I'm not saying it's OK, I'm just saying... I understand.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I don't agree that Michael did anything to provoke that. All he wanted was for Stanley to pay attention during a meeting.

[Soapbox Monkey]

I don't agree that Michael did anything to provoke that. All he wanted was for Stanley to pay attention during a meeting.

He specifically asked Stanley if he could provide some "urban flavor" to their brainstorming session. Michael is constantly inquiring about what Stanley has learned from growing up in the hood (which he hasn't, Michael is just ignorant), and Stanley finally got fed up.

[choie]

He specifically asked Stanley if he could provide some "urban flavor" to their brainstorming session.

True, but Stanley didn't hear any of that. Stanley wasn't listening at all, he was doing his puzzle (and who can blame him?). Michael had to ask a few times before Stanley even said anything, and then when Michael kept asking him to join in, Stanley yelled.

I suppose some may be assuming that Stanley's initial lack of response was due to his trying to ignore Michael's dumbass "urban flavor" comment, but that's totally not Stanley's style. Stanley never ignores this type of remark; he'd respond with "Urban? I grew up in a five bedroom colonial" or some such thing.

I think the writers very purposely had Stanley not hear Michael's "urban" phrasing because then he would've been more justified in blowing up at that point, and the staffers (and audience) wouldn't have been as shocked.

Stanley was wrong to show such disrespect in public, and Michael was wrong for all his immature ignorance. And Toby was wrong to grope Pam, and Ryan was wrong to pull his powerplay against Jim. And Jim was wrong to prank Dwight so often. And Pam was wrong to string Roy along. The Office is filled with flawed people and doesn't put anyone on a pedestal.

[Justin_Bailey]

That was actually in the pilot episode.

Which was a line-for-line remake of the first episode of the British Office. Which makes all this "Michael would never do something like that in the good old days!" so puzzling.

[Lunar Saltlick]

Which was a line-for-line remake of the first episode of the British Office. Which makes all this "Michael would never do something like that in the good old days!" so puzzling.
Please, don't get me started on the UK version of The Office. David Brent fake-fires Dawn in the first episode, establishing himself as jerk of the year. He's also in trouble with his bosses from the start, gets fired in the penultimate episode of the series because of his terrible attitude and inability to follow orders (episode 5 of season two), pathetically begs to keep his job in the final episode of the series, and shows up as a travelling salesman and sideshow loser in the hour-long special.

I can only dream of Michael meeting the same fate.

The fake firing of the receptionist in episode one of most versions of this show (including the Quebec version) establishes the boss as a colossal jerk. I say, leave it at that. Keep him more or less in character. The current hybrid Michael -- simpering, confused whiner one minute and ultra-insensitive, cartoonish king of the imbeciles the next -- is just painful to watch.

This used to be a show where the boss made just-believable remarks and created uncomfortable situations that had me covering my eyes and cringing. It was classic cringe humor. It worked because it was a fairly-close-to-real-life situation with scenarios that bordered on believability. Now it's reduced to Michael doing and saying increasingly moronic things, and yet everyone is supposed to sit there and pretend to respect him. The fake firing of Stanley didn't make me cringe the way the fake firing of Pam did, because it wasn't performed by the jerk of episode one; it was performed by the over-the-top buffoon that Michael has become. Nothing Michael says or does rings even close to true anymore. At least not for me. I'm obviously in the minority.

This episode might've worked for me if Michael had truly fired Stanley after Stanley blasted him. Then Stanley could've lawyered up, and DM's lawyers could've investigated (maybe even watched the five-year documentary), realized what a screw-up Michael is, and put him in a salesman's chair. I still say the writers made that first crucial error by leap-frogging Ryan over Michael into Jan's spot, just because he had an MBA. To me, the show has really lost its way since then.

[msmith537]

I still say the writers made that first crucial error by leap-frogging Ryan over Michael into Jan's spot, just because he had an MBA. To me, the show has really lost its way since then.


Don't get me started with Ryan and his MBA. As an MBA I find the way his career is represented as offensive. Ryan has a part-time MBA from the University of Scranton. Not exactly Wharton. The typical career path for an MBA tends to be I-banking, consulting, brand management or general management in an industry where they already have significant experienced. And in most of those positions, you get hired as an "associate" or something higher than an "analyst" but lower than management. Companies generally don't promote former temps with a year of zero sales as a salesman to Vice President of anything.

[Amazingrace]

Don't get me started with Ryan and his MBA. As an MBA I find the way his career is represented as offensive. Ryan has a part-time MBA from the University of Scranton. Not exactly Wharton. The typical career path for an MBA tends to be I-banking, consulting, brand management or general management in an industry where they already have significant experienced. And in most of those positions, you get hired as an "associate" or something higher than an "analyst" but lower than management. Companies generally don't promote former temps with a year of zero sales as a salesman to Vice President of anything.


I completely understand where you are coming from and agree that this was not true to life, for me. However, when the season 3 finale aired, there were people coming out of the woodwork to say how true to life this hire felt for them, with people with "the degree" getting the job over those more qualified.

[cactus waltz]

The fake firing of Stanley didn't make me cringe the way the fake firing of Pam did, because it wasn't performed by the jerk of episode one; it was performed by the over-the-top buffoon that Michael has become. Nothing Michael says or does rings even close to true anymore. At least not for me. I'm obviously in the minority.

I agree fully. They were going the direction of the UK Office for a short while, but I think the American writers didn't have the nerve to make Michael the full out loser that Davd Brent is. Hence in the coming seasons, Michael actually displays brief working skills and also hooks up with the female boss. Then back again to being comic relief, since it's a sit com after all.

[Interrobang!?]

The American Office doesn't have the luxury of a 12-episodes-and-out run. They've got to keep Michael in (or around) the office until the show's canceled or Carell's contract runs out.