Support our Troops: Gratitude Campaign. What do you think?

[levdrakon]

My sister sent me this video: http://www.gratitudecampaign.org/shortmovie.php

What's your take on it?

As a vet myself, I... well I'll wait and hear some responses first.

Leave Bush, Obama, Hillary and McCain out of your response, please. Tired.

[Dinsdale]

I personally feel no gratitude towards servicemen for any of their efforts in Iraq. They are doing nothing I appreciate or desire, and to the contrary, are acting in support of a policy I despise. Why should I be grateful for someone for simply doing their job, in support of a horrifically misguided policy?

In fact, given today's all-voluntary military, a small part of me almost resents folks who sign up for the military, because in some small respect their willingness to serve made it possible for the current administration to piss away their lives in misadventure.

[gigi]

I suppose for people who appreciate military people, there's nothing wrong with some sort of signal. I would hope that there is no expectation or repercussion for not doing it, since I would never participate. I don't support the troops or what they are doing or what they have chosen to do with their lives. But that's my own opinion and I would just opt out of honoring or "saluting" them.

[Otto]

I personally feel no gratitude towards servicemen for any of their efforts in Iraq. They are doing nothing I appreciate or desire, and to the contrary, are acting in support of a policy I despise. Why should I be grateful for someone for simply doing their job, in support of a horrifically misguided policy?

In fact, given today's all-voluntary military, a small part of me almost resents folks who sign up for the military, because in some small respect their willingness to serve made it possible for the current administration to piss away their lives in misadventure.
This. This in spades.

[OtakuLoki]

Meh. I'd rather pressure my congressional delegation to make sure that military pay COLAs are the same size as those for GSA employees.

[levdrakon]

Yeah, I'd feel pretty weird if people started "saluting" me. Most of the time, soldiers are basically just doing their jobs. Those fat cows I see in uniform wheeling their kids around the local Safeway are more than likely admin clerks who spend their days screwing up other soldiers' pay & paperwork.

That's not to say enlisting in the military is just like any other job though. That's bullshit. McDonald's gives you a uniform, but no way is that the same way that the military owns your life.

[j666]

I hate it. It's sentimental.

If you want to show your support, audit a defense contractor.

[Leaffan]

I feel a lot of gratitude toward servicemen and women. They're doing a job I wouldn't want to do. I don't think I would walk up to a complete stranger and give the Romulan Salute or anything though.

They have my respect and admiration.

[NinjaChick]

Why would I feel any gratitude whatsoever to people who are doing their job, after having willingly taken a job with a 'company' that has an enforced policy of discrimination and is enabling an unnecessary war?

I wouldn't work as a garbage collector - it's not a job I would do. Do I feel like I owe them some sort of gratitude? No, because I pay my taxes, which in turn pay them a fare wage. They work, they get paid, everyone's happy. Same for the military, other than the part where I benefit from the garbage collector's work and not the soldier's.

[Leaffan]

Well, they do a lot more than just fight wars. And the particular war at present in Iraq isn't the only war your military has ever been involved in. Sometimes war is necessary for the right reasons. Afghanistan comes to mind: that little thing called WWII also.

This does get me thinking though. I DO in fact thank my garbage collector on the occasion where I'm outside and he arrives. I give him a thank you kind of wave after he empties my trash, and he waves back. I do the same to the bus driver for the kids. I say thank you to waiters who are also just doing their job. Store clerks, people who hold doors open, bus boys, hairdressers, dentists. Gee, I thank them all for just doing their job................

[Ravenman]

I do appreciate the sacrifices that troops are making, even though I oppose the war. But that movie made me want to barf.

Meh. I'd rather pressure my congressional delegation to make sure that military pay COLAs are the same size as those for GSA employees.psst... military raises have been equal or greater to GS scale increases for every year since 1982!

[lieu]

My guess is a lot of these men and women signed up after 9/11 out of sheer patriotism, love of country. Politics, where they'd serve, none of that figured even remotely into the equation of their decision. In fact, there probably are more than a few who themselves wish our involvement was restricted to only those places where our legitimacy was unquestionable and that it was the Generals and not politicians doing the planning, implemention and timely extraction.

The salute looks stupid and patronizing so I won't do it. But I do occasionally give a soldier I see in an airport or on the street a short, appreciative nod of the head if our gazes meet. Putting your life on the line goes beyond justification of a paycheck. I do appreciate what they do and recognize it despite the distraction of nauseating miscalculation and mismanagement by an inept administration.

[Mr. Moto]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.

That being said, the problem here is that people by and large don't know very many people currently in the military. Some people don't even know a lot of veterans. So knowing just how to express any kind of kinship with them, let alone gratitude, is hard for lots of people.

Even the generic "thank you for your service" that I get from some people and that some right wingers like Sean Hannity toss around all the time rubs me wrong. How the hell do you know what I did? How do you know its value? Similarly, this referring to all soldiers as heroes grates on me as well. I meet people all of the time who did things I can't even imagine - my VFW post includes Iwo Jima veterans. My own service was perfectly honorable yet humble by comparison. Save the hero comments for people that earn them.

This silly little salute is akin to these, and I don't like it. Heaven forbid people actually talk to a soldier or sailor or Marine - that would be hard. Gesturing to them is easy and empty, so we'll opt for it.

Another gesture comes to mind. It's unfriendly, to say the least, but at least it's honest.

[Dinsdale]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.


Yes, I DO hate this war.

[levdrakon]

Yes, I DO hate this war.Everyone hates war. Well, mostly everyone. I don't think hating war was what Mr. Moto was talking about.

[gigi]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.And I thought I had restrained myself, rewriting my response a few times. Oh well.

[Otto]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.
No one appears to be expressing any hatred for the troops. "Lack of gratitude" does not in any sane person's mind equal "hatred."

[OtakuLoki]

psst... military raises have been equal or greater to GS scale increases for every year since 1982!

Do you have a cite for that? It certainly doesn't match my memories of military service in the 90s.

[Mr. Moto]

My own memories, which may not apply to the whole military, were that the pay raises were fine but that allowances weren't keeping up at all.

I think they have done a lot since the late-1990s to address this, but I don't know too many details.

[jimpatro]

I think Mr. Moto pegged it. I've been around the military all my life and can't imagine not having the utmost respect for those who serve. But there may be a huge precentage of Americans who don't have much exposure to servicemen/women.

No disrespect for trash collectors but military people do live with one huge factor that sets them apart. Their job could very well kill them.

Don't like the Romulan salute thing. I usually just send a smile and a nod their way.

[Mr. Moto]

"Lack of gratitude" does not in any sane person's mind equal "hatred."

Yeah, well, my VFW post is also filled with guys who served in Vietnam, and didn't get a lot of gratitude coming back from that fiasco either.

Our government asked these guys clustered around a single bar in my community to fight on Iwo Jima, and fight in Vietnam, and fight in Iraq. One of our members was serving a nice safe shore duty here - she was killed in the Pentagon on 9/11. There's a picture of her by the canteen door.

They asked me to serve in the Navy, and I never did anything very dangerous at all.

And yet you would dole out your gratitude solely on the basis of who fought in wars you approved of? Which actions you agreed with politically? When it was the actions of the government as a whole that sent us all on our various duties?

That's mighty shallow. Mighty shallow. And while you're not obligated to thank anyone, I think you ought to think about whether there is any substantial difference between those guys heading up Mount Suribachi, those fighting in Baghdad, and those like me who never really fought at all, just stood ready.

I can tell you that when I go to my VFW, these differences are so minor they recede to camp or sea stories, and we all just pal around. If they don't matter to us, why do they matter to you?

[Ravenman]

Do you have a cite for that? It certainly doesn't match my memories of military service in the 90s.From here (https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/772/IB10089_20060214.pdf?sequence=19), pages 3-4.

Permanent law (37 USC 1009) provides that monthly basic pay is to be increased by the annual percentage increase in the Employment Cost Index (ECI). . . . . Indexing the annual military pay raise to the annual increase in the ECI was established by Sec. 602 of the FY2004 NDAA (P.L. 108-136, November 24, 2003; 117 Stat. 1498, amending 37 USC 1009). Previously, the annual military pay raise was linked to the annual percentage increases in the General Schedule (GS) federal civil service pay scale.

Despite the existence of this statutory formula, which would operate each year without any further statutory intervention, Congress has legislated a particular percentage increase in military pay every year since 1980, with the exception of 1982. The percentage increase in military pay was usually identical to that granted GS civilians during the period 1982-1999 (the exceptions were in 1985 and 1994, when Congress provided larger increases in military pay). However, beginning in 2000, Congress has provided larger increases in military pay each year.

In fact, civil service employees have started to complain that recent budgets did not include parity in raises between civilian and military pay. One example. (http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0606/060706r1.htm) Another. (http://www.federaldaily.com/federaldaily/archive/2008/02/FD020108.htm)

But in any case, I give you, Mr Moto, and any other current or former service members my heartiest virtual Romulan salute.... just so long as I don't have to do it in person.

[Mr. Moto]

But in any case, I give you, Mr Moto, and any other current or former service members my heartiest virtual Romulan salute.... just so long as I don't have to do it in person.

Probably best you don't - I'd laugh in your face.

Why don't you just drive down to Dale City, and I'll treat you to a few $1 draft Yuenglings?

[msmith537]

Everyone hates war. Well, mostly everyone. I don't think hating war was what Mr. Moto was talking about.


I support the war, but not the troops. (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34068)

[Litoris]

All my garbageman does is pick up my trash. I pay him very, very well for it. My husband, my father, my brother and all the other men and women in the military have done so much more for me than I could ever begin to fathom -- if all I have to offer them is my gratitude, then so be it. I sincerely hope that the next time any of you who feel compelled to consider your trashman to be equal to our military are involved in any type of natural disaster, your garbageman is there to help you with food, shelter, clothing and all the other things that the men and women in the National Guard (which is a part of the military) would normally do. I hope that your garbageman does these things for you, as I don't think you deserve shit from the military. I tried to keep my tone as pleasant as possible, but ignorance annoys me to no end -- hence my membership on a message board whose purpose is "fighting ignorance."

For those of you who believe that the military has done nothing for you and that no one in the military deserves your gratitude for volunteering for their job -- please ask yourself how you will survive in the event of a catastrophic natural disaster or any kind of terrorist action and let me know exactly why someone who has volunteered to protect assholes like yourself -- and who, because of their selflessness are sent to fight wars with which they may personally completely disagree -- does not deserve gratitude?

As to the OP -- I don't know anything about this program, so I can't say. I will say that it does make me a bit uncomfortable when people walk up to us in public when my husband is in uniform and thank him for his service. It makes me a bit uncomfortable when I mention my father and brother both retired USAF, and people thank me. I don't think that gratitude necessarily needs to be voiced, but assholes who say that they don't "owe" any gratitude to the military because they "pay taxes" is just that in my eyes -- an asshole who really needs to pray that they never need the services of those people over whom they seem to feel some kind of completely misplaced superiority.

[Otto]

Yeah, well, my VFW post is also filled with guys who served in Vietnam, and didn't get a lot of gratitude coming back from that fiasco either.
I was a bit young to have been spitting on Vietnam vets. Spitting up on them maybe.

But notwithstanding your palavar about your VFW buddies, my point, which seems to have sailed serenely over your head, is that "Does not feel grateful toward" does not equal "hate." I think you understand that when the topic under discussion here is gratitude. And I think you understand that calling people who don't feel gratitude toward military personnel "haters" is inflammatory. I think you understand these things, I just don't think you care because you're happier to dismiss us as "haters."

[Frank]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.

That being said, ...
That could have done without being said, at least in this forum.

[Frank]

I don't think that gratitude necessarily needs to be voiced, but assholes who say that they don't "owe" any gratitude to the military because they "pay taxes" is just that in my eyes -- an asshole who really needs to pray that they never need the services of those people over whom they seem to feel some kind of completely misplaced superiority.
You should also remember what forum you're in, please.

[WhyNot]

And yet you would dole out your gratitude solely on the basis of who fought in wars you approved of? Which actions you agreed with politically? When it was the actions of the government as a whole that sent us all on our various duties?

That's mighty shallow. Mighty shallow.
Wait, didn't you just say essentially the same thing?
Similarly, this referring to all soldiers as heroes grates on me as well. I meet people all of the time who did things I can't even imagine - my VFW post includes Iwo Jima veterans. My own service was perfectly honorable yet humble by comparison. Save the hero comments for people that earn them.

[NinjaChick]

All my garbageman does is pick up my trash. I pay him very, very well for it. My husband, my father, my brother and all the other men and women in the military have done so much more for me than I could ever begin to fathom -- if all I have to offer them is my gratitude, then so be it. I sincerely hope that the next time any of you who feel compelled to consider your trashman to be equal to our military are involved in any type of natural disaster, your garbageman is there to help you with food, shelter, clothing and all the other things that the men and women in the National Guard (which is a part of the military) would normally do. I hope that your garbageman does these things for you, as I don't think you deserve shit from the military. I tried to keep my tone as pleasant as possible, but ignorance annoys me to no end -- hence my membership on a message board whose purpose is "fighting ignorance."Well, I'm lucky enough to have never been involved in a natural disaster. If I were, I would be glad for anyone who offered help - which I imagine would include more Red Cross and perhaps FEMA types than National Guard types.

For those of you who believe that the military has done nothing for you and that no one in the military deserves your gratitude for volunteering for their job -- please ask yourself how you will survive in the event of a catastrophic natural disaster or any kind of terrorist action and let me know exactly why someone who has volunteered to protect assholes like yourself -- and who, because of their selflessness are sent to fight wars with which they may personally completely disagree -- does not deserve gratitude?Okay, I'll bite: who are they protecting me from? Who have the military ever protected me from? I don't mean the nebulous "the terrorists, of course!", but actual, concrete examples of how I've been protected by the military.

And it's not like members of the military are selflessly volunteering their time after their 9-to-5. They get paid - and they also get a uniform allowance, housing allowance, overseas pay if applicable, money towards college, etc. They volunteer to join the army the same way that my mother used to 'volunteer' as a teacher: the work might not be to everyone's taste, I'll be the first to admit I wouldn't do it, but it's not an unpaid sacrifice.

As to the OP -- I don't know anything about this program, so I can't say. I will say that it does make me a bit uncomfortable when people walk up to us in public when my husband is in uniform and thank him for his service. It makes me a bit uncomfortable when I mention my father and brother both retired USAF, and people thank me. I don't think that gratitude necessarily needs to be voiced, but assholes who say that they don't "owe" any gratitude to the military because they "pay taxes" is just that in my eyes -- an asshole who really needs to pray that they never need the services of those people over whom they seem to feel some kind of completely misplaced superiority.I don't feel any superiority over members of the military, but I also don't feel inferior to them (well, at least not on the basis of their military service).

[Omegaman]

My sister sent me this video: http://www.gratitudecampaign.org/shortmovie.php

What's your take on it?

As a vet myself, I... well I'll wait and hear some responses first.

Leave Bush, Obama, Hillary and McCain out of your response, please. Tired.

I'm all for it, Sir. However, I generally voice my thanks when I see a service man or woman. I do not tread this earth with fear nor hate nor anything other emotion, aside from respect, for everyone I come across, until they do something to lose it.

[levdrakon]

I'm all for it, Sir. However, I generally voice my thanks when I see a service man or woman. I do not tread this earth with fear nor hate nor anything other emotion, aside from respect, for everyone I come across, until they do something to lose it.Well spoken. Personally, I think if you're too shy to just wave and say hi and generally just acknowledge some (like I already do with say cops, firemen, fellow motorcyclists, etc.) certain categories of people then it's a little weird and probably too much to expect people to give out this "Romulan" salute. I can't help but think there might sorta kinda maybe be an agenda hidden there somewhere.

It was one thing when I was in Germany in a heavy vehicle convoy slowly making our way down the street and all the kids would gather and wave and we'd toss out glow-sticks, candy & things but it would feel weird getting more than an understanding "thanks" from an adult, and I wouldn't even expect that when I'm just going about my daily business.

I don't think a lot of Americans understand what it's like to live somewhere the military really is what's standing between you and an invasion, though.

[Litoris]

You should also remember what forum you're in, please.
I apologise. In light of this moderator comment, I will refrain from responding further in this particular thread.

[OtakuLoki]

Ravenman, thanks for the cite, and fighting my ignorance. It is appreciated.

But in any case, I give you, Mr Moto, and any other current or former service members my heartiest virtual Romulan salute.... just so long as I don't have to do it in person.

You can do any thing you please at your computer. ;)

I just get really flustered when people try to thank me in person. I joined for my own selfish reasons, as well as patriotism and a desire to serve the nation. And whatever complaints I may have about my service, I have to say that I've gotten back far more than I ever expected.

[Tanaqui]

I will agree that I do not feel any gratitude whatsoever towards the military. I don`t thank nurses and doctors and teachers whenever I see them walking around; I will thank them if they personally assist me. So next time an Iraqi militant attempts to kill me or someone I love, and a Marine shoots them in the face, I am sure I will thank him. Until then, I will hold off, thanks.

By the way, I know plenty people who are or have been in the military. These include my grandfather, three of my cousins, one of my uncles, a number of my friends and acquaintances, and an elderly Japanese man I teach English to (of course, he wasn`t in the American military. I wonder if I should be thanking him as well, though? It`s not about politics or your own opinion of the war, after all.) I find it hard to believe that any American is not acquainted with their own spectrum of such people, except perhaps those mythical Americans who have never heard of Jesus and need to be acqainted with him. I hear they live somewhere.

[Count Blucher]

My sister sent me this video: http://www.gratitudecampaign.org/shortmovie.php

What's your take on it?

As a vet myself, I... well I'll wait and hear some responses first.

Leave Bush, Obama, Hillary and McCain out of your response, please. Tired.

My take is that this is an election year. These slick productions only seem to get trotted out during election years as an end-run around campaign spending/contribution limits. The baby Karl Rove smiles at them. Thats my take on it.

[j666]

I just love how threads like this bring out the haters.

That being said, the problem here is that people by and large don't know very many people currently in the military. ...

Even the generic "thank you for your service" that I get from some people and that some right wingers like Sean Hannity toss around all the time rubs me wrong. ...

This silly little salute is akin to these, and I don't like it.

Well, yes, I do know people in the military, and I could hear their ruacas & bitter laughter in my head as I watched the clip.

But the sign isn't a silly little salute, it's a modification of the ASL sign for 'Thank you' (http://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-signs/t/thankyou.htm).

[Mr. Moto]

By the way, I know plenty people who are or have been in the military. These include my grandfather, three of my cousins, one of my uncles, a number of my friends and acquaintances, and an elderly Japanese man I teach English to (of course, he wasn`t in the American military. I wonder if I should be thanking him as well, though? It`s not about politics or your own opinion of the war, after all.)

My job has brought me into contact with military personnel from many different countries. In general I respect their service, unless there is a reason that I shouldn't for a particular servicemember.

I was fortunate enough to witness a wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier a few years back - the person laying the wreath was the chief of staff of the Argentine armed forces. I stood at the appropriate times, maintained my silence, and remained on my feet through all twelve minutes of the Argentine national anthem. And I did this mindful of the nasty things the Argentine military has done in the past.

Doesn't matter - there is a time for gratitude and protocol and a time for protest - and wise people keep these things separate in their heads.

[Leaffan]

...... I find it hard to believe that any American is not acquainted with their own spectrum of such people, except perhaps those mythical Americans who have never heard of Jesus and need to be acqainted with him. I hear they live somewhere.

What in the hell does this mean?

[Tanaqui]

What in the hell does this mean?What do you think it means? It means there are millions of Americans who have served in various branches of the armed forces over the years, and it is unrealistic to expect that there are many Americans who are not aquainted with any member of the military. My family is a bunch of liberal commies and we still know plenty of military people. I connected this with the other claim of certain fundamentalist Christians, which is that there are some Americans who are not acquainted with the teachings of Jesus or Christianity and thus need to be informed via door to door witnessing. I suggested that both ideas were, in my opinion, misinformed. I then made a sarcastic remark at the end of my post implying this.

[Wheeljack]

A position I've heard a few times is that there's a distinction between military duty in general and military duty in this particular war, the notion being that since every single (surviving) servicemember has had the opportunity to get out of the military since the war started, the entire thing is made up of people who volunteered to fight in a war that a lot of people find dispicable, so their usual respect and gratitude toward servicemembers has sort of gone temporarily out to lunch.

Again, I don't necessarily subscribe to this run-on sentence, but it might be where some of the "hate" is coming from.

[Leaffan]

What do you think it means? It means there are millions of Americans who have served in various branches of the armed forces over the years, and it is unrealistic to expect that there are many Americans who are not aquainted with any member of the military. My family is a bunch of liberal commies and we still know plenty of military people. I connected this with the other claim of certain fundamentalist Christians, which is that there are some Americans who are not acquainted with the teachings of Jesus or Christianity and thus need to be informed via door to door witnessing. I suggested that both ideas were, in my opinion, misinformed. I then made a sarcastic remark at the end of my post implying this.
:confused: Sorry. No offense. Me stupid. I still don't get it.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Well, I'm lucky enough to have never been involved in a natural disaster. If I were, I would be glad for anyone who offered help - which I imagine would include more Red Cross and perhaps FEMA types than National Guard types.
You'd be wrong then. Having been through a major natural disaster, I can tell you that the military presence and assistance was significant. They provided food, water and shelter, cleared debris, transported assistance workers and residents, performed first aid, provided security, and numerous other activities. The NG's ability to mobilize quickly and efficiently far surpasses that of FEMA or the Red Cross. That's what they do and it works very well when there's a great deal of destruction and chaos. If I never had a prior reason to be proud of our servicemen, I did then. There humanitarian efforts were enormous and appreciated. And I, for one, liked the Chicken a la King MREs.

If you ever find yourself a victim of a major natural disaster, I sure as hell hope the National Guard is there for you, because those FEMA guys are bureaucrats, plain and simple, and the Red Cross doesn't have nearly the resources that the military does*. It makes a difference, for sure.




* Not to discount the efforts and mission of the Red Cross, which is a great organization and I was grateful to have them around too.

[gigi]

:confused: Sorry. No offense. Me stupid. I still don't get it.
Someone up-thread said that maybe people don't respect the military because they don't personally know any military people. He is saying that he finds it hard to believe there is anyone who doesn't know some military people. Just like it's hard to believe everyone hasn't at least heard of Jesus.

[Omegaman]

Just like it's hard to believe everyone hasn't at least heard of Jesus.

They haven't? I hope to meet them real soon. ;)

[Dinsdale]

Just curious - those of you who are grateful for military service - are you as appreciative of the efforts made by members of the Iraqi army who died bravely defending their country against an invasion? Or the Viet Cong, resisting colonialism?

Because it seems to me that in terms of men of arms making sacrifices in support of causes they believe in, they stand on an equal footing as the US military they faced. Plus, IMO, in at least those two conflicts, our opponents enjoyed the higher moral ground.

[levdrakon]

Because it seems to me that in terms of men of arms making sacrifices in support of causes they believe in, they stand on an equal footing as the US military they faced.Well, I think soldiers in general deserve some respect just like doctors and firefighters deserve respect in general.

But geez, American soldiers serve America. Should I bow before the Queen of England just because she's a queen? Hell no. Ain't my queen. We don't have one and Americans don't bow to them.

[Mr. Moto]

Because it seems to me that in terms of men of arms making sacrifices in support of causes they believe in, they stand on an equal footing as the US military they faced. Plus, IMO, in at least those two conflicts, our opponents enjoyed the higher moral ground.

That's certainly an opinion that you can hold. I personally don't see it in quite as black/white terms as you do.

Neverless, I think we can agree that soldiers of many nations conduct themselves in battle according to orders decided from above - and apart from things like war crimes, when ultimate credit or blame is apportioned, the bulk of it lies on the leadership that ordered the soldiers to battle, not the individual soldiers themselves.

[olivesmarch4th]

Well, I was raised to honor authority, regardless of whether the authority is justified (not saying that's the case here, just explaining how much respecting authority is a gut-reaction for me.)

So in the presence of a military person, I would show respect and probably a little reverence, regardless of my feelings about the Iraq war, though I'd be way too shy to say something like, ''thanks for your service.'' I'm also wary in saying that of coming across as pro-war, which I'm not.

One thing I've observed lately is that a lot of military personnel not actually in direct combat tend to do the same sort of things do-gooder volunteers do. They provide emergency relief, they try to create structure and help people the best way they know how. Even hearing about what many military folks do in Iraq, the majority of them are not killing people, they are supporting infrastructure and taking on the very difficult task of rebuilding a community. Whether they should be there or not doesn't even enter into it-- they have no control over that--what matters to me is that they care enough about other people to work that hard and don't really expect anything in return. They signed their lives away trusting that our country would use them to create the greatest common good, and even if that trust was abused, they are clearly trying to do the best they can with what they have been assigned to do.

Since I'm really into that kind of thing (giving your time in volunteer service), I've actually been surprised to discover that I, the proudly bleeding heart liberal, have a lot more in common with the military than I ever realized before.

So while I am fundamentally anti-military, I have respect for anyone who believes enough in an ideal that they will leave their comfortable life and go do hard work for what they believe is the greater good.

That being said, the video in question is pure glurge, and I wouldn't be surprised if actual military people found it insulting. It seems disingenuous to fawn all over the military because what it means for an enlisted individual varies widely... I'm sure no two experiences are alike, and maybe I'm contradicting myself by implying everyone who joins the military cares about other people. What I'm trying to say is, we don't even really know what we're thanking them for.

[jimpatro]

Originally posted by Dinsdale
Just curious - those of you who are grateful for military service - are you as appreciative of the efforts made by members of the Iraqi army who died bravely defending their country against an invasion? Or the Viet Cong, resisting colonialism?

That's ridiculous. This is about supporting American troops. Are you serious?

[Omegaman]

Originally posted by Dinsdale
Just curious - those of you who are grateful for military service - are you as appreciative of the efforts made by members of the Iraqi army who died bravely defending their country against an invasion? Or the Viet Cong, resisting colonialism?

That's ridiculous. This is about supporting American troops. Are you serious?

I feel that all soldiers derserve respect. Does it make a diiference who's side they fight for? Not to me.They fight for their brothers in arms and because they are ordered too.Civilization, we would be savages without it. I am just one man, though. No one of importance. Just a citizen of this great counrty of ours, the United States.

I screwed up the quotes. I don't have much time it's Mothers Day almost. I love my mother and my wife's also.

[scr4]

Well, I was raised to honor authority, regardless of whether the authority ... So in the presence of a military person, I would show respect and probably a little reverence
Why do you consider soldiers to be "authority"? I didn't think they have any authority over American citizens.

[Mosier]

I think our country would be much better off if 90% of the military men and women were out of jobs. As it is now, they're being paid with my tax dollars to do a job I resent them doing, which I believe do much more harm to me and my country than good.

To me, servicemen seem like loan broker middlemen. They're doing an unneccessary job and leeching off the economy, making things worse for everyone.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

I think our country would be much better off if 90% of the military men and women were out of jobs. As it is now, they're being paid with my tax dollars to do a job I resent them doing, which I believe do much more harm to me and my country than good.
I'd actually agree with that if you replace military with politician.
To me, servicemen seem like loan broker middlemen. They're doing an unneccessary job and leeching off the economy, making things worse for everyone.
The thing is, it is necessary to have a military force that is trained and ready to perform all the myriad duties they perform even outside of conflict. How could you possibly expect the military to respond in a timely manner to any critical situation if they didn't have a trained and ready force at their disposal?

I agree that there may be a significant amount of waste and expense that could and should be streamlined. I would also agree that the Iraq conflict is a huge part of this and I'm not convinced that we're accomplishing anything there other than contributing to further ME destabilization. But, that's not the military's fault; that blame lies squarely on the shoulders of our elected officials and, to a lesser extent, the voting public that allowed them the ability to make those decisions.

[flyboy]

All my garbageman does is pick up my trash. I pay him very, very well for it. My husband, my father, my brother and all the other men and women in the military have done so much more for me than I could ever begin to fathom -- if all I have to offer them is my gratitude, then so be it. I sincerely hope that the next time any of you who feel compelled to consider your trashman to be equal to our military are involved in any type of natural disaster, your garbageman is there to help you with food, shelter, clothing and all the other things that the men and women in the National Guard (which is a part of the military) would normally do. I hope that your garbageman does these things for you, as I don't think you deserve shit from the military. I tried to keep my tone as pleasant as possible, but ignorance annoys me to no end -- hence my membership on a message board whose purpose is "fighting ignorance."

For those of you who believe that the military has done nothing for you and that no one in the military deserves your gratitude for volunteering for their job -- please ask yourself how you will survive in the event of a catastrophic natural disaster or any kind of terrorist action and let me know exactly why someone who has volunteered to protect assholes like yourself -- and who, because of their selflessness are sent to fight wars with which they may personally completely disagree -- does not deserve gratitude?

As to the OP -- I don't know anything about this program, so I can't say. I will say that it does make me a bit uncomfortable when people walk up to us in public when my husband is in uniform and thank him for his service. It makes me a bit uncomfortable when I mention my father and brother both retired USAF, and people thank me. I don't think that gratitude necessarily needs to be voiced, but assholes who say that they don't "owe" any gratitude to the military because they "pay taxes" is just that in my eyes -- an asshole who really needs to pray that they never need the services of those people over whom they seem to feel some kind of completely misplaced superiority.Active Duty Naval Officer here. This is a great post (I'll say the same for olivesmarch4th) and, IMO, captures the big picture, which I see missing from so many people--especially those with attitudes like NinjaChick's.

For people like Tanaqui and NinjaChick,, a couple points-- many folks in the service don't agree with Iraq, yet they join (and stay in) the service because it's a life they respect or need or enjoy. There are many benefits, and to judge a career or stint in the military based on the current conflict is unfair, as Mr. Moto pointed out. Judge your President and Government, but don't judge the military. The orders they (in the military) receive are legal and thus they must be followed.

Also, while we may not be protecting you in particular from any immediate threat, you may want to consider what will happen if/when we pull out from the Middle East. The terrorists will still hate us. 9/11 happened on our soil for a reason--it didn't happen in any of our many overseas deployment sites. So, do you really think all of the attacks will simply go away, or is there a very real possibility many of them will simply follow the front, as it were, and start happening here in the U.S.? I'm certainly not a fan of the Iraq war, but it does seem to be serving as a lightning rod for all of these fanatics and keeping the war over there and not over here. Furthermore, if you enjoy living in this superpower, bear in mind that we wouldn't be a superpower without our military. I've been all over the world and from my observation, living in the U.S. is far and away better than anywhere else. The lifestyle you enjoy--culturally, physically, and war-free-- is in large part due to our military.

And I'm with Mr. Moto, Otto--I can read between the lines enough to see disdain (to put it mildly), despite the wording.

And for those who think we should simply quit because you don't agree with the war... what in the world do you really think'll happen if we did that? For starters, most of our obligations are not that easily shed. The government doesn't have to let us go. Even if they, did, then look out for a draft, no matter how unpopular that would be.

As for the OP, I think it's silly. Why not just a simple handshake or "Thanks"? Heck, I just want people to think it. I don't much care if they externalize it.

Lastly, NinjaChick, your comparison of our volunteer military to volunteering as a teacher still has me scratching my head in disbelief. Our junior enlisted guys make under 30k, sometimes even less than 20k, per year. The same guys going door to door in Baghdad, the same guys manning the security checkpoint in Fallujah, all just a breath away from a firefight, mortar round, RPG, or roadside bomb. Somehow they endure this in the cold climes of the Afghanistan winter and the blazing heat of the Iraqi summer. How in the world does this compare to a teaching job in the States? As I said earlier, there are many reasons we all have which compel us to serve. I think I can speak for most of us when I say that some of the basic ones are a desire to serve our country, a love for that country (which transcends the current politcal climate), and a belief that all in all, a strong nation requires a shield and weapon.

And it's not like members of the military are selflessly volunteering their time after their 9-to-5.Month after month, and for many, year after year, of serving in the sandbox, away from family and friends, all for relatively little pay.... and the only recognition you can muster for that is the above quote. Wow.

[jimpatro]

Thanks for your service, Flyboy.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Thanks for your service, Flyboy.
Word. Hell, while I'm at it: thank you SSG Schwartz and billyb0b.

It doesn't take a hand gesture to say "thank you" but there are many valid reasons to express it.

[Skylark]

Seeing a guy walk around in uniform, giving him that 'distant' vibe, staring while pretending not to stare, 'too polite to be openly rude' attitude.... changing that around might be nice.

Guys (and girls) deployed abroad are doing shit they don't want to do, fifteen months at a time, 'for' an American public they increasingly feel has forgotten about them or openly resents them for it.

[levdrakon]

Also, while we may not be protecting you in particular from any immediate threat, you may want to consider what will happen if/when we pull out from the Middle East.Oh, not just the Middle East. People think we can disband the military and the whole world will just get along and most of them won't suddenly appear on our doorstep?

The US military is what's allowed a whole lot of European kids to not choose a military life.

[Gala Matrix Fire]

...As it is now, they're being paid with my tax dollars to do a job I resent them doing, which I believe do much more harm to me and my country than good...They're also being paid with their own tax dollars. You think they don't pay taxes?

[Omegaman]

I think our country would be much better off if 90% of the military men and women were out of jobs. As it is now, they're being paid with my tax dollars to do a job I resent them doing, which I believe do much more harm to me and my country than good.

To me, servicemen seem like loan broker middlemen. They're doing an unneccessary job and leeching off the economy, making things worse for everyone.

Well where as I appreciate your feelings, they are of little consequence at this point in time. The deed has been done and just so you understand my position, I didn't vote for the blundering idiot that is presently in charge of our country either time nor did I vote for the philander who resided in office before him. But to abandon men that our country sent to fight a war that was based on the flimsiest of evidence would a very cowardly thing to do. Cowardice, like lying, is something I don't do. It would be a wonderful thing indeed, if our current president shared my resolve.

[Chessic Sense]

Word. Hell, while I'm at it: thank you SSG Schwartz and billyb0b.

::sniff:: I see how it is, B.E.G.

To the Red Cross/FEMA comment: I second that you'd be wrong about that. When Hurricane Ivan hit Pittsburgh (!), the flooding was tremendous. Who answered that call? Me. My unit. I cancelled my plans with the girlfriend, didn't go to that party, didn't see the friend that was in town. Instead, I guarded Houston, PA from looters looking to take advantage of all the residences with swollen wooden doors that couldn't be shut. That was a 36 hour shift. I think I made $70 that weekend for that. That's just one example. Every time there's a severe storm or something, we're there. There is no way FEMA or the Red Cross matches what your National Guard does.

To the teacher comparison: I don't think you understand exactly how little we're paid and the committment it takes to stay with this. I'm both a teacher and a soldier, so I feel that I can say this. A teacher can quit his/her job, a soldier can't. Every few years, we get to make that decision, not every day. Deployed to Iraq, I made less than $35,000 a year, including all the add-ons. A teacher goes home to his/her family at the end of the day. I didn't see anyone I knew for over a year. Not to mention, I could've DIED!! So THAT is the reason you should thank your servicemembers and think of them as a notch above teachers. As to why you should SAY that out loud, nobody ever debates if teachers have a moral job or if they should even exist. No one calls them evil by virtue of their job. In our country today, finding a friend in the general public is a difficult task. Announcing your support is a meaningful gesture.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Thank them for what? Their actions in Iraq confer no benefit to me. They're not protecting me from anything and they volunteered to be there. I feel sorry for them and I wish they weren't being exploited and wasted the way they are, but that's not my fault. I feel no animosity to anyone over there, but what has the occupation of Iraq given to me that I should be grateful for?

[LouisB]

My late brother in law served honorably and well. I met a lot of military people through him and my sister; most of her surviving friends are retired military. I liked most of them and respected and even admired some of them but I can't say that I ever felt gratitude to any of them. I think most of them saw themselves as at least potential defenders of America and felt that people should be grateful to them for that. Following that logic, we should be grateful to the policeman who tickets us and the fireman who holds up a boot for us to throw money in. It just doesn't strike me that we owe gratitude for a service that isn't actually rendered.

[Mr. Moto]

Thank them for what? Their actions in Iraq confer no benefit to me. They're not protecting me from anything and they volunteered to be there. I feel sorry for them and I wish they weren't being exploited and wasted the way they are, but that's not my fault. I feel no animosity to anyone over there, but what has the occupation of Iraq given to me that I should be grateful for?

Once again, Iraq isn't all the military does. They also fight in Afghanistan, serve garrison duty in Korea, man all of our destroyers, carriers and subs, provide aid to tsunami and cyclone victims in SE Asia and hurricane victims here. They also do lots of things I really have no room to list.

When I was in, I supported operations that helped bring that genocidal mess in Bosnia to an end.

So out of all the military does, you would withhold your gratitude because of your political opposition to a certain mission, one these soldiers did not choose or vote upon.

I said above, that is pretty shallow. Your choice to make, but I think that choice frankly reveals a lot about your priorities.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

My late brother in law served honorably and well. I met a lot of military people through him and my sister; most of her surviving friends are retired military. I liked most of them and respected and even admired some of them but I can't say that I ever felt gratitude to any of them. I think most of them saw themselves as at least potential defenders of America and felt that people should be grateful to them for that. Following that logic, we should be grateful to the policeman who tickets us and the fireman who holds up a boot for us to throw money in. It just doesn't strike me that we owe gratitude for a service that isn't actually rendered.
I am also thankful for, and have verbally thanked, the police officers and firemen that I've met. Generally, the reason to thank them is obvious: they served me. But I also thank them in general because they are performing a difficult and often dangerous job that I would not want to perform. I guess the thing is, I know that a lot of people don't thank them or treat them poorly because they don't like them or trust them, and maybe I'm trying to balance things out a little. But they have served me and they serve my community. That's worth a thank you and it costs nothing.

::sniff:: I see how it is, B.E.G.
Aww, I didn't mean to leave you out. Thank you, IntelSoldier (I should have realized by you username that you were active duty as well) :) ... and all the other military (and non-military) guys and gals that participated in my thread.

[Mr. Moto]

I should also add, Diogenes, that part of your own National Guard is in Kosovo right now, helping maintain the peace there.

Don't you think this is a worthwhile thing to do? How do you feel about soldiers from your state doing this work?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Once again, Iraq isn't all the military does. They also fight in Afghanistan, serve garrison duty in Korea, man all of our destroyers, carriers and subs, provide aid to tsunami and cyclone victims in SE Asia and hurricane victims here. They also do lots of things I really have no room to list.
None of that confers any benefit to me, so I have no reason to be grateful. Respectful, sure, but gratitude implies that they're giving something to me persoanlly which they aren't.
When I was in, I supported operations that helped bring that genocidal mess in Bosnia to an end.
When I was in, I was a cook. It never occurred to me to think I should go around demanding thanks from random strangers.
So out of all the military does, you would withhold your gratitude because of your political opposition to a certain mission, one these soldiers did not choose or vote upon.
Politics has nothing to do with it. The military has given me nothing that I owe it any thanks for (well, maybe my USAA benefits).
I said above, that is pretty shallow. Your choice to make, but I think that choice frankly reveals a lot about your priorities.
Take your sanctimony somewhere else. I served too. I didn't ask for any thanks. When did you guys start feeling so entitled?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I should also add, Diogenes, that part of your own National Guard is in Kosovo right now, helping maintain the peace there.

Don't you think this is a worthwhile thing to do? How do you feel about soldiers from your state doing this work?
Good for them. I also have a brother-in-law (a guy who I like and have formed a good friendship with) in Iraq right now. I'm sending him care packages. He's a good guy (even though he's a Republican). I feel just fine about what thos guys are doing. My issue is not that I think they're doing anything wrong, but that it has nothing to do with me. Why should I be grateful to people who haven't given me anything?

[levdrakon]

None of that confers any benefit to me, so I have no reason to be grateful. Respectful, sure, but gratitude implies that they're giving something to me persoanlly which they aren't.Well, your BIL is in Iraq and therefore not doing anything for you, so why the care packages? Obviously, you're capable of thinking beyond what directly benefits you.

When I was in, I was a cook. It never occurred to me to think I should go around demanding thanks from random strangers.
Where on earth did you get the idea soldiers are demanding anything, much less gratitude?

Take your sanctimony somewhere else. I served too. I didn't ask for any thanks. When did you guys start feeling so entitled?Same question. Who are these "you guys" who have started feeling entitled?

From the gratitudecampaign.org site: I started to think that it would be nice if civilians had a gesture or sign that they could use to say "thank you" quickly and easily without even having to approach. I did some research and found the sign that we are now using.

Is this limited to the military? Not at all. If you look around you I'm sure that you'll find lots of people who are serving their communities, from local to global. If you appreciate their service, give them a sign. Say "thank you."As far as I can tell, the guy who came up with the Gratitude Campaign idea isn't military and the military in general has nothing to do with it.

[jimpatro]

Diogenes, it's amazing that it's all about you. You can't even be grateful that the military has served your country.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Diogenes, it's amazing that it's all about you. You can't even be grateful that the military has served your country.
1. I served too.
2. No has yet told me what they're doing for me personally that I need to be grateful for.
3. When you se the word "gratitude," then there's no other way to take it than personally. It implies that the military is give somethiung to me personally that I need to say thank you for, and they aren't.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Well, your BIL is in Iraq and therefore not doing anything for you, so why the care packages?
Friendship and sympathy. Thise things do not have to entail gratitude.
Where on earth did you get the idea soldiers are demanding anything, much less gratitude?

Same question. Who are these "you guys" who have started feeling entitled?

From the gratitudecampaign.org site: As far as I can tell, the guy who came up with the Gratitude Campaign idea isn't military and the military in general has nothing to do with it.
I was talking about military personal who are posting in this thread with self-righteous lectures about why they're entitled to gratitude.

[Tanaqui]

Active Duty Naval Officer here. This is a great post (I'll say the same for olivesmarch4th) and, IMO, captures the big picture, which I see missing from so many people--especially those with attitudes like NinjaChick's.
For people like [b]Tanaqui and NinjaChick,, a couple points-- many folks in the service don't agree with Iraq, yet they join (and stay in) the service because it's a life they respect or need or enjoy. There are many benefits, and to judge a career or stint in the military based on the current conflict is unfair, as Mr. Moto pointed out. Judge your President and Government, but don't judge the military. The orders they (in the military) receive are legal and thus they must be followed.Try to keep in mind that for people like me, this attitude is very nearly incomprehensible. I do not consider blindly following orders to be something that deserves honor or respect--and certainly not gratitude. People following the perfectly legal orders of their governments have led to some of the most evil acts on this planet. Legality is derived from governments and thus from politicians--sometimes good but sometimes venial, powerhungry, and corrupt. Morality comes from yourself. The military leaves no room for morality and I cannot respect that. I certainly have no gratitude to spare for that kind of attitude. I could not continue to work for an organization that I felt was doing things that were morally wrong, as I believe the war in Iraq is.

And frankly, if I am supposed to be judging my government for the things they do wrong, shouldn't I also thank them for the things they do right, rather than the members of the military themselves? If servicemen and women are not responsible for the wrongs committed in Iraq, in Vietnam, in any other country you would care to name, then why are they responsible for the good that the military has done in disaster stricken countries or in peace-keeping capacities? They are just following orders. You can't have your cake and eat it too. People deserve to be judged on what they do, on the decisions they make--not on how good they are at doing what other people tell them to do.

Don't get me wrong! This does not mean that I hate the military in general or its members in particular. I can tell you don't agree, and I doubt we will ever agree on that, so let's just leave it at this: I respect people in the military, as I respect everyone in this world who has not done something to lose that respect, but I don't feel grateful to them either. That simple.

[DigitalC]

The only way to support the troops is to do everything in your power to bring every last one of them home. Everything else is bullshit designed to make us feel better, not them.

[Omegaman]

1. I served too.
2. No has yet told me what they're doing for me personally that I need to be grateful for.
3. When you se the word "gratitude," then there's no other way to take it than personally. It implies that the military is give somethiung to me personally that I need to say thank you for, and they aren't.

Dio you're letting this get too personal. I know that you've pointed it out already, but don't allow yourself to be drawn in like this. I have the utmost respect for you and others who have served, and allthough I have never served in the military you can be sure I know what it is about. It is about brotherhood. Team work. Personal sacrifice for the good of all. I learned it the hard way, in gangs, and by fighting like a dog in the streets. Makes no difference how or where I learned but I'm telling you, my brother, no man is an island. We must all get along. End of story. I feel for you because I know you are a father and a soldier and above all, a man. Just one man. Just like me. No better, no worse, all equal under the sun and equal as we stand on this great world of ours. Each one of us a piece of the puzzle that is life. I know you don't believe in God but He unites us. He made the puzzle. Without Him it makes no sense. I'll shut the hell up now, as this isn't the forum for it. Peace to you, my brother. Stand still and revel in yourself. You are unique. The ONLY one of you.

[Skylark]

I do not consider blindly following orders to be something that deserves honor or respect--and certainly not gratitude.

A lot has been said jokingly about grunts and being a bunch of Dums Dums, especially by those in the military themselves, but it's not true that being in the military is about "blindly following orders".

[olivesmarch4th]

Why do you consider soldiers to be "authority"? I didn't think they have any authority over American citizens.

I dunno. I consider the U.S. government an authority, and I view the military as an extension of the U.S. government.

The military leaves no room for morality and I cannot respect that. I certainly have no gratitude to spare for that kind of attitude. I could not continue to work for an organization that I felt was doing things that were morally wrong, as I believe the war in Iraq is.

I think there are a couple of points to keep in mind here.

First, a lot of people who join the military trust that their government shares the same values that they do. They enlist perhaps because they view military service as the most profound expression of their values. To say that the military leaves no room for morality doesn't seem fair -- it embodies a morality that many people share and has been a bonding point for countless U.S. citizens.

I'm unlikely to share the same moral viewpoint, or at least not feel it's perfectly expressed through service in the military, so I am unlikely to enlist. But just because it embodies a different morality than I have does not mean it follows no moral code at all. To be willing to do what you're told implies that you have placed a profound moral trust in your superiors, not that you enjoy being told what to do. To a lesser extent the same thing gets played out daily in the hierarchy between employer and employee, mother and child, etc. There are bad bosses and abusive mothers, but in general the need for hierarchy is understood and respected, because it is the most efficient and humane way for society to operate.

The second point is, it might be a good idea to look at the big picture. I hate the war in Iraq. I hate war altogether. But I am also aware that the military is not just about killing people -- it is about preventing war and it is also about humanitarian service. I am trying to view the lousy foreign policy of this moment in the broader context of U.S. history and the function the military has served throughout. We live in an imperfect world--the state could not exist without the military. The Iraq war, or Vietnam, or any war that has been fought throughout history, is but a small piece of the greater picture. Nobody pays attention to the military during peace time, but it is there, building communities, providing humanitarian aid, largely being ignored but essentially serving as a vast body of people willing to trust that their country will use them in the interest of the greater good. If you hate the war in Iraq, or U.S. foreign policy (as I DO, I cannot stress it enough), then blame the government, not the individuals who believe that their government will make the right decision.

[Count Blucher]

Re: the OP:

www. gratitudecampaign.org

(link broken, so I'm not intentionally giving money to people who may be posing/hiding behind our honored dead)

Q: Who are these people?

Who is Scott Truitt? Who serves on the board of directors / owns gratitudecampaign.org? Most service people I know are having a tough enough time paying bills, let alone producing a multi-million dollar network-grade commercials (another type of ‘gratitude’ that always seems to get ignored both before and after election day).

So, who paid for this? What purpose does the spending of this money and the releasing of this commercial serve in May of 2008? And why not in 2007 or 2006?

Have their owners/ major shareholders/ contributors served on any political re-election campaigns in the past ten years? Whose?

I’ll pat people who serve on the back, but I feel like I respect the memory of the dead much more by making sure that no one is falsely wearing the uniform and smearing their faces with dead soldiers blood just to make political headway in an election year.

Rachel Maddow, This Story Is Calling You…

[levdrakon]

Re: the OP:

www. gratitudecampaign.org

(link broken, so I'm not intentionally giving money to people who may be posing/hiding behind our honored dead)This is a whoosh, right?

[scr4]

I dunno. I consider the U.S. government an authority, and I view the military as an extension of the U.S. government.
OK, I can appreciate that. As long as you show the same respect to IRS auditors, DMV clerks, NASA engineers and all other federal employees out there...

[olivesmarch4th]

OK, I can appreciate that. As long as you show the same respect to IRS auditors, DMV clerks, NASA engineers and all other federal employees out there...
Well, you know, I try to respect everyone.

[scr4]

Well, you know, I try to respect everyone.
So you respect military people simply because they're people? I thought you said you respect them because they're "authority."

[Cubsfan]

12 year serviceman chiming in here.

Someone going to basic training / OTS and putting on a uniform every day doesn't make them a hero and doesn't instantly make them (us) deserving of any sort of reverence or extra support/money. I think the individual actions of a person in, or out, of uniform are what makes them heros deserving of my admiration.

I will not deploy. In my job it will not happen. It makes me uncomfortable when I'm out in uniform and someone pays for my lunch or stops me to thank me for my service when I pretty much live the life of a business man (USAF Engineer). I don't risk my life any more than the kid working at McD's. I will say that if told to head overthere I would go without a second thought and fulfill my duty honorably. But don't assume just because you see one of us running around in BDUs that we are living a hard war beaten life because alot (most) of us just aren't (USAF and USN anyway). I deployed many times in the 90s but it wasn't an active war zone then.

I admire the men and women that are over there fighting a war they may not agree with but they are putting their lives on the line every day and that takes guts. I support them because they need it. I do my job HERE to keep them alive THERE. But there are alot of people who don't wear uniforms doing the same job I am. Keep that in mind.

[Omegaman]

12 year serviceman chiming in here.

Someone going to basic training / OTS and putting on a uniform every day doesn't make them a hero and doesn't instantly make them (us) deserving of any sort of reverence or extra support/money. I think the individual actions of a person in, or out, of uniform are what makes them heros deserving of my admiration.

I will not deploy. In my job it will not happen. It makes me uncomfortable when I'm out in uniform and someone pays for my lunch or stops me to thank me for my service when I pretty much live the life of a business man (USAF Engineer). I don't risk my life any more than the kid working at McD's. I will say that if told to head overthere I would go without a second thought and fulfill my duty honorably. But don't assume just because you see one of us running around in BDUs that we are living a hard war beaten life because alot (most) of us just aren't (USAF and USN anyway). I deployed many times in the 90s but it wasn't an active war zone then.

I admire the men and women that are over there fighting a war they may not agree with but they are putting their lives on the line every day and that takes guts. I support them because they need it. I do my job HERE to keep them alive THERE. But there are alot of people who don't wear uniforms doing the same job I am. Keep that in mind.

I appreciate your perspective, As always it's one more bit for the mix that is an opinion. I have lived in Las Vegas since I was 5 years old and near Nellis AFB for a good part of it. It is just outside of North Las Vegas, generally known as a poorer area of Vegas on the whole. Although I have interacted with soldiers on many occasions, as when I ran aftermarket auto parts stores I had some that worked for and with me, I have had an opportunity to associate with members of the Air Force on a more personal level. They were men just like I was, most of them joining the Air Force as a career decision. This was almost 10 years before the first time we invaded Iraq. Most of them hadn't seen active duty at that time. As I began working for new car dealers after that, I had occasion to meet many more that were in the reserves that worked as mechanics there. Some of these guys left and came back while I was still working their and after returning from the first invasion some of these guys were markedly different upon their return. Still continuing in my same job, the men that I have known that have fought in this war are just know starting to trickle back and are on the whole much more quiet than on the whole than when they left. These men I don't ask about their service because I can see from their demeanor that they are changed men. For better or worse, who knows, but be sure I endeavor to treat them with perhaps a tad more respect than I would a lot of men that I know. Right or wrong, having known them before, it is not my business to pry into their lives and if they felt like sharing I'm sure that they would. I have made it known to most of them of my thanks and pride at their service to our country but again. I don't pry as that is as rude as anything I could imagine doing to another man, almost like asking about his sex life or something that personal. I just feel it is my duty to offer whatever support I can to all soldiers I meet and I meet new ones every day. They come here from all over just as they have done in the past and I am courteous and open to them as I am a lot of people I meet through my job that even travel through the city on vacation or coming here for work. I guess my point is I see guys like Dio who are almost irritated by their service and it makes me wonder why. So I do what I can to offer my hand when I feel it necessary for better or worse because it is all I have to give.

[gigi]

That's ridiculous. This is about supporting American troops. Are you serious?Because if you respect all soldiers for what they'e doing, you would want all soldiers safe. Meanwhile, American soldiers are killing these other soldiers. So how is any of this supportable?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I see guys like Dio who are almost irritated by their service and it makes me wonder why.
I'm not irritated by their service. I just don't feel a sense of personal gratitude for them doing a job which, while dangeous, confers no benefit to me. I feel sympathy, respect and sometimes admiration, I just don't feel the very specific sentiment of gratitude.

I actually have often felt gratitude for law enforcement, fire fighters and paramedica and have had occasion tell them all so. Somebody being unfortunate enough to get sent to Iraq to make the world safe for Halliburton, though....Dick Cheney owes them the thank you card, not me.

[Omegaman]

I'm not irritated by their service. I just don't feel a sense of personal gratitude for them doing a job which, while dangeous, confers no benefit to me. I feel sympathy, respect and sometimes admiration, I just don't feel the very specific sentiment of gratitude.

I actually have often felt gratitude for law enforcement, fire fighters and paramedica and have had occasion tell them all so. Somebody being unfortunate enough to get sent to Iraq to make the world safe for Halliburton, though....Dick Cheney owes them the thank you card, not me.

Well I realize part of your user name is "cynic". Perhaps you can find a way to work "jaded" in there too. I would never tell you how to live your life but I will offer you a bit of advice. From someone who has had more of the bad the world has to offer than the good. Lighten up a bit. Your habit of fighting over insignificant things is going to do you more harm than good, my friend. You are guiding 2 children to thier destiny. Watch your self closely for their sakes. I love children more than I love myself and a dam side more than I love most adults. You know I offer this advice as a brother so don't get pissed, please.

[MrDibble]

I was raised to fear the military, and personal experience cemented this, and added a great measure of personal enmity, as well. I'm never going to feel any personal gratitude for soldiers as soldiers. Sure, soldiers as relief workers, that's OK. But salute them? Where do you guys live, modern America or '40s Germany?

[Omegaman]

I was raised to fear the military, and personal experience cemented this, and added a great measure of personal enmity, as well. I'm never going to feel any personal gratitude for soldiers as soldiers. Sure, soldiers as relief workers, that's OK. But salute them? Where do you guys live, modern America or '40s Germany?

I don't salute any one ! I wasn't in the military. I do offer my greetings you know, "How's it going?" "How are you doing?". You know I respect you and more importantly your perspective. Please don't minimalize mine by making comments like that. If I lived in 1940's Germany I would be a German soldier or long dead if I was asked to kill innocents. I think you know I'm not shitting you either. I am a man and I act like one.

[cowgirl]

There are many people who work hard at jobs I would never take, for little pay, who have an enormous impact on the safety and well-being of my community.

This includes aforementioned emergency and relief workers, but also charity workers (who answer the phone at suicide hotlines, and make sure assaulted women have a safe place to sleep, and feed families who cannot make ends meet, and so on, and so forth) and nurses and teachers, and (although it may surprise you) a lot of government employees* and even politicians who actually do have the public interest at heart. I even know lots of businessfolk who make a huge positive difference to the world far beyond their fiscal bottom line.

Many of these sorts of people have done things which have merited my personal gratitude far more than any military person has. I'll be thanking them first.

* - (a category of which military personnel are, of course, a subset)

[MrDibble]

I don't salute any one ! I wasn't in the military. I do offer my greetings you know, "How's it going?" "How are you doing?". You know I respect you and more importantly your perspective. Please don't minimalize mine by making comments like that. If you don't salute the troops like the suggestion in the OP, then my comment didn't apply to you. I have no problem with just greeting military personnel. It's the special civilian salute (co-opting ASL that, to me, looks like my "are you pregnant?" hand gesture) that gets the fascist state comparisons.

[Omegaman]

If you don't salute the troops like the suggestion in the OP, then my comment didn't apply to you. I have no problem with just greeting military personnel. It's the special civilian salute (co-opting ASL that, to me, looks like my "are you pregnant?" hand gesture) that gets the fascist state comparisons.

Well as I didn't see anyone else state that they did, and my comment stated that I attempted to strike up conversation, which I begin with eye contact, It seemed you were referring to me. No harm, no foul.

[olivesmarch4th]

So you respect military people simply because they're people? I thought you said you respect them because they're "authority."

I'm not really sure why this is bothering you so much. I was raised to defer to authority and to honor hierarchy. That is something that is basically ingrained, which means when I see a cop, or yeah, the guy at the DMV, my instinct is to straighten up and follow directions. I don't mind having a boss and if I ever got a speeding ticket I wouldn't resent the cop who gave it to me. I am a rule follower and I always have been.

Whether my respect for authority is augmented by my general good intentions toward all of humanity, who the hell knows? Your comparing the military to the guy at the DMV seemed loaded because I interpreted it as some kind of challenge... like you expect me to say, ''Heavens no, the guy who works at the DMV is barely fit to shine my shoes!'' That's not going to happen, both because the guy at the DMV is an extension of the government and also because he's a freakin' human being.

I think we are talking about two different kinds of respect. There is a deference and following orders kind of respect, and there is a recognizing the humanity in all people sort of respect, and for the purposes of the comment I made regarding authority, I refer to the former. Perhaps instead of saying ''I was raised to respect authority'' I should have said, ''I was raised to follow orders.'' I'm sorry if I confused you.

[scr4]

I'm not really sure why this is bothering you so much. I was raised to defer to authority and to honor hierarchy.
It bothers me that someone thinks of the military as having authority over them. I think this mentality is just a result of pro-military propaganda. I too was raised to defer to authority and to honor hierarchy, but never thought of soldiers as having any type of authority over me.

[olivesmarch4th]

It bothers me that someone thinks of the military as having authority over them. I think this mentality is just a result of pro-military propaganda. I too was raised to defer to authority and to honor hierarchy, but never thought of soldiers as having any type of authority over me.
Oh, I see. I think it's because they tend to carry high-powered weapons. :D
But seriously, there's a lot to be said for the fear aspect. The military as a government entity seems frightening to me. I wonder if I would be so respectful to authority if I didn't also fear the repercussions of rebellion.