Man Jailed After Adult Daughter Fails To Get GED - What?

[astro]

This story (via fark) seems to beggar the imagination. How does this guy not have a huge lawsuit opportunity against the state?

Man Jailed After Daughter Fails To Get GED (http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=28d2acca-9947-44cc-8831-9859f1f6137e)

A Fairfield man is in jail because his daughter hasn't gotten her General Equivalency Diploma (GED).

A judge ordered the father to stay on top of his daughter's education months ago and when that order wasn't followed, Brian Gegner was sentenced to 180-days in the Butler County jail. The daughter, Brittany Gegner, says her father shouldn't be punished for her problems. Especially, she says because she's now 18, an adult.

"I never dreamed they would put him in jail for this – for six months – it's crazy," said Stephanie Gegner, Brittany's step-mother. "He has no control over what his adult daughter does," she said. "He just doesn't."

Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started. They say this type of punishment is rare and reserved for extreme cases when court orders aren't met.

[astro]

Specifically re the question I am asking in GQ - How, logically, can a father be deemed responsible for the academic performance of an adult child?

I can understand making sure a minor child attends school, and putting that on the parent as a requirement, but how... legally, logically, or just based on common sense can any Judge or court "order" a person to guarantee that another person (much less an adult) will pass a math exam on pain of imprisonment?

[samclem]

Here's a post from the dad's sister. Interesting.

Posted on 5/9/2008 4:14:21 AM

My brother, Brian Gegner, was sentenced Wednesday by the Butler County Juvenile Court to 180 days in jail because his daughter, Brittany, who will be 19 years old in August, has not obtained her GED. Have you ever heard of such a thing?!

Brian was appointed Brittany's primary custodial parent when she was three years old. As a teenager, Brittany had truancy problems. Brian and his wife did everything they could to keep Brittany in school during this time, short of handcuffing themselves to her and attending school with her.

At the age of 17, Brittany became pregnant and chose to move herself and her boyfriend into her biological mother's home. Her mother then enrolled her into another school. It was 5 months before Brittany's 18th birthday so Brian decided maybe this would be a good change for Brittany. Perhaps she would attend school while living with her mother. However, she did not last at that school, either.

Brittany had a court hearing in March 2007 regarding her truancy. She was told to return to school the next day, which she did, but not for long.

She returned to court on June 1, 2007, which is when Brian was told he would go to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if Brittany did not return to school in the Fall.

On August 23, 2007 Brittany turned 18 years old.

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered Brian to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.

Brittany had her baby in November 2007.

By the next court date, February 13, 2008, Brittany was taking her GED classes but could not pass parts of the test.

Then today, May 7, 2008, she still had not obtained her GED because she continued to fail the mathematics section of the test, so Brian was remanded for 180 days. He was not given the option of paying a fine, or a combination of a fine, community service, and jail time.

If Brian is kept in jail for 180 days, he will get out after Brittany celebrates her 19th birthday.

Of course those who know Brian wonder how the Judge could do this to a man who was granted custody of his children, raised them to the best of his ability, has been an employee for the same company for 15 years, a loving husband, is not a drug addict, thief, child molester, dog beater, etc. How can the court hold him responsible for the actions of another adult? Brittany is definitely not the one being punished for her actions. And, Brian's ex, the mother of his two children, owes him $15,000 in back child support but has never spent an hour in jail!

Brian was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a child....a misdemeanor punishable up to 180 days in jail...the maximum sentence. In this case, 180 days seems extremely excessive given that Brian has no control over the course of action Brittany, an adult mother who owns her own home, chooses to take.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Brian had a court appointed attorney.

Of course Brian's wife is devastated. How much would you lose if your husband was thrown into jail for 6 months? His income, his employment, the car, the house. And you can imagine the loneliness she feels, the tears she cries everyday. And Brian has another daughter still at home, missing her Dad.

You can view more about this story on wcpo.com

Anyone have "difficult" teenagers? What's your opinion? from http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:-MkmZeUIr-MJ:www.cincymoms.com/f/ShowThread.aspx%3Ftid%3D49066%26cid%3D15%26fid%3D94+%22Brian+Gegner+%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=us

[samclem]

Oh, I forgot. This is OHIO. Nevermind. :(

[jtgain]

This is family court. These asshole judges are used to mandating outcomes in families. Just because the daughter is 19 means nothing. This judge makes adults do silly and childish things for his living. Why can't YOU make a 19 year old do something? (According to family court logic)

Hopefully this case leads to some reform in the family court system. BTW, why hasn't the Governor of Ohio read this story and ordered this man's release from jail?

[Loach]

From reading the article it seems that this is for something that happened when she was 16. Think of it as basically a suspended sentence. The judge had the option to sentence him several years ago and didn't as long as certain conditions were met. Those conditions were not met hence the sentence. Of course things are different from state to state but juvenile court usually retains jurisdiction for events that happened when someone is a juvenile even after they become an adult.

This is GQ so don't take the above as agreeing with what happened in the court. Just trying to answer the question.

[Broomstick]

It's still effing stupid - if they girl is running wild (which seems to be much of the problem here) lock HER up until she passes the test.

You just know there's got to be more to this story than what we have here...

[alterego]

It's a ridiculous sentence. It's also surprising that she can't pass the math section of the GED. It looks to be basic arithmetic in word problem form for the most part.

[astro]

She might have dyscalculia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyscalculia). For learning disorders like these a one on one therapeutic approach might be better than rote study.



Dyscalculia can be detected at a young age and measures can be taken to ease the problems faced by younger students. The main problem is understanding the way mathematics is taught to children. In the way that dyslexia can be dealt with by using a slightly different approach to teaching, so can dyscalculia. However, dyscalculia is the lesser known of these learning disorders and so is often not recognized.

[Green Cymbeline]

This is absolutely outrageous. We are not living in a free country, and haven't been for a while now. I'm scared - honestly. Someone - a mayor, a county council person, a state legislator, a congress person, a governor - SOMEONE needs to do something for this man.

[ASAKMOTSD]

You would think the age of the whipping boy would be over, wouldn't you? Isn't it about time that people are held liable for their own actions instead of the actions of others? I would imagine there would be a tremendous outcry if they jailed teachers for kids not being educated and they have a greater degree of influence on that as opposed to the parents.

Family courts (and CPS officers, for that matter) make me sick. They are so severely screwed up and they are exempt from prosecution themselves for all the needless pain (and even death) they can inflict on families.

[Shodan]

Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started. They say this type of punishment is rare and reserved for extreme cases when court orders aren't met.Which part of this is unclear? When she was sixteen, her father was responsible for her. The judge threatened to send her father to prison unless he was able to cause a change in his daughter's behavior - to wit, having her graduate high school or the equivalent (the GED). He failed to bring about this change. Now he has to go to prison.IOW, he is not being sent to prison because of the actions of his adult daughter. He is being sent to prison because of the actions of his daughter when she was a minor.

Regards,
Shodan

[HMS Irruncible]

Which part of this is unclear? When she was sixteen, her father was responsible for her. The judge threatened to send her father to prison unless he was able to cause a change in his daughter's behavior - to wit, having her graduate high school or the equivalent (the GED). He failed to bring about this change. Now he has to go to prison.IOW, he is not being sent to prison because of the actions of his adult daughter. He is being sent to prison because of the actions of his daughter when she was a minor.
I think you need to take the reading comprehension part of the GED again. Brittany turned 18 on 8/23/2007. The "get a GED or Dad goes do jail" order was given on 8/29/2007, a week after she became a legal adult. You can feel free to argue that young people nowadays in some cases remain de facto children well into their 20's, but in the eyes of a law, this court has jailed one adult for failing to control another adult.

[Contrapuntal]

Surely everyone in that jurisdiction whose child drops out of school has been jailed. Right? Right?

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Surely everyone in that jurisdiction whose child drops out of school has been jailed. Right? Right?
Well...I'm in the county just south of that one, so mayhaps I should consider myself lucky given my own son's issues.

I find this story ridiculous and disgusting and feel sympathetic towards the father. Stupid judge. :mad:

[The Controvert]

I think you need to take the reading comprehension part of the GED again. Brittany turned 18 on 8/23/2007. The "get a GED or Dad goes do jail" order was given on 8/29/2007, a week after she became a legal adult. You can feel free to argue that young people nowadays in some cases remain de facto children well into their 20's, but in the eyes of a law, this court has jailed one adult for failing to control another adult.I don't think this is right. The charge of contributing to the delinquincy of a minor occurred when the daughter was 16. The court order to get the GED was to avoid the penalty of the charge, so it doesn't matter that the daughter had turned 18.

Suppose Tracy Lords does some underage porn. It's against the law to possess underage porn. Can you argue that it's legal to possess her underage porn because Tracy Lords is no longer underage? I don't think so.

[Loach]

I think you need to take the reading comprehension part of the GED again. Brittany turned 18 on 8/23/2007. The "get a GED or Dad goes do jail" order was given on 8/29/2007, a week after she became a legal adult. You can feel free to argue that young people nowadays in some cases remain de facto children well into their 20's, but in the eyes of a law, this court has jailed one adult for failing to control another adult.

I swear to god that link in the OP went to a better written story yesterday. I can't seem to find one with more information. In the longer story it mentioned that the original stay of sentence happened when she was 16. At that time the judge ordered her back to school or her father would go to jail. She dropped out again. The judge did not send the father to jail. The judge imposed other conditions and continued the stay. Those conditions were not met. Juvenile courts have jurisdiction over adults for things that happened when they were juveniles. The sentence was for something that happened when she was a juvenile. We don't know the original reason for her being in juvenile court to begin with. Dropouts don't go to court just for dropping out. Something else happened and we don't know the father's role in it.

I am not saying this to say I agree. I don't. It is not possible to make a 16 year do what they don't want to do let alone an 18 year old. However the OP asked a GQ question I am attempting to give a GQy answer since this is GQ and not RO.

[HMS Irruncible]

acy Lords does some underage porn. It's against the law to possess underage porn. Can you argue that it's legal to possess her underage porn because Tracy Lords is no longer underage? I don't think so.
This is a false analogy. Under this analogy, the situation would be jailing someone for helping Traci Lords shoot porn movies on the day she turned 18, because it would have been illegal to shoot the film the day before when she was 17. When the person turns 18, they're an adult, it's too late for the court to start forcing the parents to be parents.

However, if Loach's restated story is correct in saying that he was convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor at the time she was 16, and was given a suspended sentence of that crime based on satisfying certain conditions that he failed to meet, then this makes a lot more sense legally.

[arseNal]

Which part of this is unclear?
<snip>
IOW, he is not being sent to prison because of the actions of his adult daughter. He is being sent to prison because of the actions of his daughter when she was a minor.

Regards,
ShodanIt was the original order that was dumb (unless it was some kind of plea deal that the father agreed to). How can anyone make sure with 100% certainty that their daughter passes a test? It even puts the daughter in a position where she can tank the test on purpose out of spite to put her father in prison.

[WF Tomba]

It was the original order that was dumb (unless it was some kind of plea deal that the father agreed to). How can anyone make sure with 100% certainty that their daughter passes a test? It even puts the daughter in a position where she can tank the test on purpose out of spite to put her father in prison.

She returned to court on June 1, 2007, which is when Brian was told he would go to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if Brittany did not return to school in the Fall.

On August 23, 2007 Brittany turned 18 years old.

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered Brian to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.
If this account (according to Brian Gegner's sister) is an accurate description of events, then the court did not declare that the girl must pass her GED until she was already an adult. On the other hand, this account is confusing because it does not explain why she was back in court on August 29th.

In general, I agree that even if the man is, legally speaking, being punished for a crime he committed when his daughter was a minor, the court seems to have placed itself in an absurd position. Suspending a man's sentence on condition that he do such-and-such a thing only makes sense if it's something that's actually in his power to do.

The one niggling detail that I can't find is when exactly the man was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

[mlees]

It was the original order that was dumb (unless it was some kind of plea deal that the father agreed to). How can anyone make sure with 100% certainty that their daughter passes a test? It even puts the daughter in a position where she can tank the test on purpose out of spite to put her father in prison.


Well, I think that most folks don't want to punish minors with jail time. they are not working with all of the experience and self restraint that an adult is assumed to have. So, there are different expectations and sentences for minors.

The parents of children are expected to exercise some type of parental role in their childrens life, and they are responsible (financially, and to some extent, legally) for what their kids do.

If a child of mine threw a rock through a neighbors window, I can be expected to pay for it.

Unless I jump through the home schooling hoops, I am required by law to send my kid to public school.

The details seem to me a little sparce, but isn't it possible that the judge felt that the dad did not make reasonable attempts to get his kid to school? The judge does have some latitude with his discretionary powers here...

[Shodan]

I think you need to take the reading comprehension part of the GED again. Brittany turned 18 on 8/23/2007. The "get a GED or Dad goes do jail" order was given on 8/29/2007, a week after she became a legal adult. You can feel free to argue that young people nowadays in some cases remain de facto children well into their 20's, but in the eyes of a law, this court has jailed one adult for failing to control another adult.
Did you notice the first part I quoted?Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started.So, "in the eyes of the law", she and her father are subject to the jurisdiction of juvenile court.

Regards,
Shodan

[DanBlather]

It's a ridiculous sentence. It's also surprising that she can't pass the math section of the GED. It looks to be basic arithmetic in word problem form for the most part.She didn't seem to have a problem multiplying.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

The details seem to me a little sparce, but isn't it possible that the judge felt that the dad did not make reasonable attempts to get his kid to school? The judge does have some latitude with his discretionary powers here...
Exactly what are reasonable attempts to get your kid to go to school? Enrolling them seems reasonable. According to the sister's report, she was enrolled in school, just not going:

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered Brian to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.

So, now then she started taking classes for the GED:

By the next court date, February 13, 2008, Brittany was taking her GED classes but could not pass parts of the test.

Then today, May 7, 2008, she still had not obtained her GED because she continued to fail the mathematics section of the test, so Brian was remanded for 180 days. He was not given the option of paying a fine, or a combination of a fine, community service, and jail time.
And by now she's presumably passed all but the mathematics section. So, I'm kind of curious as to how the judge has determined that he hasn't made reasonable efforts towards her education. What exactly does he expect?

My son is currently enrolled in school, but refuses to attend. Does that mean I should go to jail? The officers at his school are fully aware of all the students who regularly do not attend and they aren't doing anything about it. What are they going to do other than keep giving them community service which they couldn't care less about anyway?

[Brown Eyed Girl]

If a child of mine threw a rock through a neighbors window, I can be expected to pay for it.
You can't make restitution for your child's truancy. If judges started throwing parents in jail for their kid's actions, it's going to get ugly real fast. At that age, delinquent kids are only too willing to allow someone else to pay for their own misdeeds.

[TomScanlan]

Well, at least the child wasn't left behind. What a crazy country we're living in.

[arseNal]

If a child of mine threw a rock through a neighbors window, I can be expected to pay for it.Well, that's because paying for a window is something that's totally within your own ability. I'm not questioning the expectation that a parent takes general responsibility for their child, I'm questioning the threat of prison time for the parent based on the child's performance on a test.

[WF Tomba]

So, "in the eyes of the law", she and her father are subject to the jurisdiction of juvenile court.
Does that matter? Being under the jurisdiction of juvenile court doesn't give the father custodial powers over his adult daughter, does it?

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered Brian to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.
Is this logical? Does a parent have the power to "take [his/her progeny] out of school" if that offspring is legally an adult?

It seems reasonable for a court to order a father to make sure his minor child goes to school, but once that child reaches the age of majority, how can the court order him to do something he has no power to do? It would have made more sense for the court to have locked him up as soon as the daughter turned eighteen.

Suppose I have a minor daughter and am convicted of contributing to her delinquency, and suppose the court suspends my sentence on the condition that I cut her hair or make her get it cut. Assume for the sake of argument that the court is justified in making this order. If the girl turns eighteen, and her hair still hasn't been cut, is it appropriate for the court to continue to order that it be cut or I go to jail? I would say not, because this means that the court is either ordering me to do something I have no power to do (cut my daughter's hair against her will) or it is trying to compel her to do something by threatening to punish her father, which seems to go against the spirit of American law. Instead, if the girl turns eighteen and has not had a haircut, the court should throw me in jail immediately, for I have missed my chance to comply with its orders.

Any actual lawyers want to take some potshots at my layman's analysis? :)

[Magiver]

Without knowing all the facts I have to assume this goes back a number of years. what I don't understand (per Brian Gegner's sister) was the judge's order to pull the daughter out of school and get her GED. If, she failed part of the tests that mean's she's TAKING the tests. That implies good faith effort. Mr Gegner cannot be held accountable for her achievement any more than any teacher could.

If this is an accurate scenario and Mr. Gegner looses his job I can't imagine this not affecting the judges' career. But as is often the case, information is usually missing or inaccurate.

[Green Cymbeline]

AFAICT, The girl studied for the test, took the test, and kept failing the math portion. So, because she's either dumb, math-impaired, or learning disabled, her father is being PUT IN JAIL.

So by that rationale, if you have a learning disabled kid, a mentally disabled kid, or a kid who just has a low IQ, you can be sent to jail if they can't pass a GED or graduate high school? WHAT THE F*CK COUNTRY ARE WE LIVING IN?!?!

The fact is, there is no law on the books that criminalizes parents for the academic failings of their children (i.e. if your kid fails tests, classes, etc. proceed directly to jail). However, he is being jailed for not following a court order... so basically, the judge can order anything, no matter how unreasonable or impossible, and send someone to jail for failing to do it. JUDGES HAVE TOO MUCH POWER! That is unfair and unjust!

Clearly these family courts have too much power, abuse this power, and have no oversight. I've heard of cases where fathers are ordered to pay a huge amount of child support or go to jail, even though they are unemployed. (See this story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050700233.html), which ended up with the father dead - in a nutshell, an unemployed father owed $9,000 in back CS, and feared being arrested... when cops showed up at a house he was at, he ran and they chased him and he ended up drowning in a lake.)

[samclem]

The fact is, there is no law on the books that criminalizes parents for the academic failings of their children (i.e. if your kid fails tests, classes, etc. proceed directly to jail). However, he is being jailed for not following a court order... so basically, the judge can order anything, no matter how unreasonable or impossible, and send someone to jail for failing to do it. JUDGES HAVE TOO MUCH POWER! That is unfair and unjust!
He's been sent to jail, according to my reading of everything, because he, as the child's legal guardian at age 16-18, didn't make her go to school. And that's against the law in Ohio. Using the excuse that he allowed her to go live with her mother and that's when the truancy occurred didn't sway the judge. He violated a court order.

[arseNal]

He's been sent to jail, according to my reading of everything, because he, as the child's legal guardian at age 16-18, didn't make her go to school. And that's against the law in Ohio. Using the excuse that he allowed her to go live with her mother and that's when the truancy occurred didn't sway the judge. He violated a court order.Doesn't the article say that it was because she didn't get her GED, not because she didn't go to school?

Butler County Juvenile Court Judge David Niehaus ordered Gegner to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor by not following a court order which required Gegner to be sure his daughter got her GED.After all, it seems to me that if she were actually going to school, she wouldn't be going for her GED.

[Loach]

Doesn't the article say that it was because she didn't get her GED, not because she didn't go to school?

After all, it seems to me that if she were actually going to school, she wouldn't be going for her GED.

The original order said she had to go back to school. Which she did for a short time. Then she dropped out again (I think she was pregant by then). When she stopped going again the judge ammended it to getting her GED.

[Rucksinator]

Specifically re the question I am asking in GQ - How, logically, can a father be deemed responsible for the academic performance of an adult child?

I can understand making sure a minor child attends school, and putting that on the parent as a requirement, but how... legally, logically, or just based on common sense can any Judge or court "order" a person to guarantee that another person (much less an adult) will pass a math exam on pain of imprisonment?

IANAL. I don't see her CURRENT age being a get-out-of-jail-free card.

"Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started. "

If I had sex with a 15 year old girl, and was arrested for it 4 years later, I couldn't say "Hey, she's an adult! It's not a crime anymore."

I'm not saying that I think that he should have been put in jail. I'm just saying that I don't think the fact that she is 18 NOW is relevant.


ETA: I had this post in preview, and forgot about it (lot of tabs open) for about a day. So sorry if it's redundant.

[Magiver]

If I had sex with a 15 year old girl, and was arrested for it 4 years later, I couldn't say "Hey, she's an adult! It's not a crime anymore."
That's not the case here. This is an ongoing case involving a juvenile who skipped school. Since it's illegal to shackle her to a desk it is unreasonable for a judge to hold her father accountable for each and every transgression this adorable child has done.

The judge ordered her to get her GED. She tried and failed. Sentencing her father to jail is a drastic measure that accomplishes nothing. More than likely, the father will end up taking care of his grandchild because his daughter appears to have significant limitations. If he looses his job it will be a lose/lose situation for everybody.

[Rucksinator]

That's not the case here. This is an ongoing case involving a juvenile who skipped school. Since it's illegal to shackle her to a desk it is unreasonable for a judge to hold her father accountable for each and every transgression this adorable child has done.

The judge ordered her to get her GED. She tried and failed. Sentencing her father to jail is a drastic measure that accomplishes nothing. More than likely, the father will end up taking care of his grandchild because his daughter appears to have significant limitations. If he looses his job it will be a lose/lose situation for everybody.

On Sunday evening, I read the 5 or so replies, and then typed up my reply to all of the "she's an adult" posts. I got tired of waiting for the hamsters and went on to other things, and forgot to actually post my reply. On Monday, I actually hit "submit". I then read through a day's worth of posts.

That said..... I wasn't commenting on feasibility of making a teenager do something that they don't want to do. I wasn't commenting on the fact that he's not the biological father (It must be like getting a Poison Ivy plant as a wedding present.) I was simply pointing out that her current age wasn't as relevant as most of the first repliers were making it.

Maybe he's a saint and she's a cunt with a learning disability. Or maybe he's a bad parent. I'm actually leaning towards the former, but I was just illustrating that her current age didn't let him completely off the hook.

[astro]

Minor update (http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=7a7fab07-7e37-455b-a5bf-300eaabd03d8)

There's a new development regarding a Butler County juvenile court judge's controversial ruling. Judge David Niehaus sentenced Brian Gegner to six-months in jail because his daughter didn't get her GED.

Two groups, the National Coalition of Free Men, and the California Alliance for Families and Children want the judge removed from the case. Gegner's daughter, Brittany, who is now 18-years-old, says if anybody should go to jail it should be her, not her dad. There's a hearing on the case Friday morning.

[Magiver]

Minor update (http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=7a7fab07-7e37-455b-a5bf-300eaabd03d8) I'd like the judge removed from his job.

[Ace309]

Minor update (http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=7a7fab07-7e37-455b-a5bf-300eaabd03d8)
Only in the eyes of the legal system. To the rest of us it's an adult update.

[Gary T]

Perhaps it makes more sense when viewed this way:

As the custodial parent, he was ordered to make sure she attended school. He failed to do that. (Her skipping school while living with her mother doesn't obviate this. It did not transfer custody nor relieve him of the responsibility to see that she attended.)

Having failed to satisfy the order, he was liable to face consequences. The judge decided to defer the consequences and offer an alternative - if she could obtain a GED, then school attendance per se could be deemed (retroactively) unnecessary, and the hope and intent of the original order could be considered satisfied.

When the alternative was not fulfilled, and with the original order still unsatisfied, the deferred consequences came due. Without more info about what he did and did not do as a parent, it's hard for us to effectively evaluate whether the punishment was reasonable or not.

[Fubaya]

An attorney should correct me if I'm wrong, but, although she is now 18, I don't think she is emancipated. According to this (http://www.ohiobar.org/pub/lycu/index.asp?articleid=300), emancipation in Ohio occurs at 18 or at graduation if the kid turns 18 during their senior year. I assume that's so the parent still has authority to make them go to school, even if they turn 18 and think they know everything. This case will probably become a textbook example.

The guy's real mistake was in not filing for a modification to the custody order when she went to live with mom.

[Princhester]

To me, there are two possibilities. One is that he wasn't really trying very hard to get her to go to school, in which case, fair enough I suppose. Have we had the prosecution's side of the story? There is usually more to the story than one party to the case (or the media looking to sensationalise their story) will ever tell you.

The second possibility is that the father was doing what he could, in which case what the judge did amounted to using the father as a hostage to pressure the daughter: go to school or your daddy goes to jail. Which would clearly be despicable.

Who knows. I suspect the first option. I've seen too many sensationalised one sided reports of court cases to believe them.

[Contrapuntal]

Without more info about what he did and did not do as a parent, it's hard for us to effectively evaluate whether the punishment was reasonable or not.I agree we need more info, but unless every parent whose child drops out of school is jailed, the punishment is not reasonable.

[astro]

Re moving to live with the bio-mom in the original stories it seemed to indicate this was because the then minor daughter insisted on living with her baby daddy boyfriend as her father and step mom were not down with that.

[brujaja]

Wait, that guy got a court-appointed lawyer? If there is ANYONE on the Board who knows the definitive answer regarding the circumstances in which a parent is entitled to court-appointed counsel in Family Court, I would dearly love to know. Because no one here in California, from the bottom to the top, seems to even have an educated guess.

[shijinn]

for perspective, what other crimes might warrant a 6 months sentence?

[jtgain]

Just curious. What if your 16 year old just flat out refuses to go to school? What if she tells you to go get fucked, that she isn't going and that you can shove it up your ass if you don't like it?

What recourse would a father have? If you don't force her to go to school, this judge would send you to jail. If you physically forced her to go to school, you could be arrested for domestic battery. The police will tell you it is a civil matter if you call them for help getting her to school.

I'm sure an attorney here will advise you to go back to the family court judge and tell him the situation. But you were just there and HE was the one that put you in the situation to begin with.

I just love these judges that act like Judge Judy on steroids ("Sir, it's time for you to be a man and a father!") but when you stand your ground and set rules, they are the ones wanting the Police and Child Protective Services to get involved. It's a no-win situation..

[Magiver]

Just curious. What if your 16 year old just flat out refuses to go to school? What if she tells you to go get fucked, that she isn't going and that you can shove it up your ass if you don't like it?

What recourse would a father have? If you don't force her to go to school, this judge would send you to jail. If you physically forced her to go to school, you could be arrested for domestic battery. The police will tell you it is a civil matter if you call them for help getting her to school.

I'm sure an attorney here will advise you to go back to the family court judge and tell him the situation. But you were just there and HE was the one that put you in the situation to begin with.

I just love these judges that act like Judge Judy on steroids ("Sir, it's time for you to be a man and a father!") but when you stand your ground and set rules, they are the ones wanting the Police and Child Protective Services to get involved. It's a no-win situation.. Everything you said plus the fact that we have something like a 50% dropout rate with inner-city schools. This judge is completely out to lunch. I'd like to make him her guardian and see what magical powers of persuasion HE has.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

Just curious. What if your 16 year old just flat out refuses to go to school? What if she tells you to go get fucked, that she isn't going and that you can shove it up your ass if you don't like it?
That's essentially what my son has done. I'd kind of like to know what recourse there is as well?

As a parent, you could certainly file charges for incorrigible and/or unruly behavior. But it's up to the judge as to how they respond to the charge. It's not unheard of that the kid gets off with community service. Then you go back again until you establish a pattern of delinquency and habitual truancy. The thing is until and only if the child commits some other serious charge, they really don't consider placing the minor in a youth facility.

Without more information, though, it's hard to tell what information the judge based his determination that the father was complicit in her delinquency. Specifically, how did he "aid, abet, induce, cause, encourage, or contribute" [ORC 2919.24] her delinquency and can we assume that she was adjudicated delinquent at some point?

Incidentally, the judge pretty much threw the book at that guy. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is misdemeanor of the first class with a maximum penalty of 180 days (6 months) in jail. That's pretty harsh. He apparently saw no mitigating factors that justified a lesser punishment. I find that pretty hard to believe considering the girl is a young mother living with her baby daddy in the non-custodial mother's house.

[astro]

Latest update:

Judge Says He Will Release Father If Daughter Attends GED Class (http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=70c23e06-3f25-4daa-a343-eb3814bb0668)

The Fairfield father who was put in jail after his daughter failed to obtain her General Equivalency Diploma (GED) will be released from jail on Friday.

After a heated hearing, Butler County Judge David Niehaus told Brian Gegner he will let him out of jail if his daughter attends a class to prepare for the GED test.

Gegner's daughter must also schedule the test before the next court date.

Judge Niehaus told Gegner he never wanted to send him to jail but Gegner had been neglectful by permitting truancy for years.

The judge said Gegner was not taking his parental responsibilities to insure his daughter went to school.

The judge sentenced Gegner to six months in jail last week.

[jtgain]

Latest update:

Judge Says He Will Release Father If Daughter Attends GED Class (http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=70c23e06-3f25-4daa-a343-eb3814bb0668)

So what if his daughter, who is legally an adult, refuses to attend class? Dad goes back to jail?

What does the judge suggest he do if she refuses? Can he beat her with a baseball bat until she goes to school? What if she goes but doesn't pay attention? What if she goofs off in class? Back to the pokey for him?

When would this stop? What if 25 years from now, this girl is 43 years old and still pissing around and not getting her GED? Will Dad get cuffed at the nursing home and taken to jail?

[astro]

So what if his daughter, who is legally an adult, refuses to attend class? Dad goes back to jail?

What does the judge suggest he do if she refuses? Can he beat her with a baseball bat until she goes to school? What if she goes but doesn't pay attention? What if she goofs off in class? Back to the pokey for him?

When would this stop? What if 25 years from now, this girl is 43 years old and still pissing around and not getting her GED? Will Dad get cuffed at the nursing home and taken to jail?

It's interesting that the Judge is still holding this guy hostage to his adult daughter's academic performance and keeping him in jail. The case is so public at this point I would think he would be looking at some face saving way to release him ASAP.

That the Judge can legally do this is fascinating. How could you punish a Judge for doing this if it's legal?

[samclem]

That the Judge can legally do this is fascinating. How could you punish a Judge for doing this if it's legal?
You can't. Gegner fucked up years ago. I don't see where there's a pass on fucking up, just because time has passed.

[Brown Eyed Girl]

You can't. Gegner fucked up years ago. I don't see where there's a pass on fucking up, just because time has passed.
Well, at least in the judge's and your opinion. I'm not sure I have enough information to agree.

[Justin_Bailey]

You can't. Gegner fucked up years ago. I don't see where there's a pass on fucking up, just because time has passed.

How did he fuck up if his daughter skipped school? By definition, skipping school is not attending school and your parents (and the school) have no knowledge that you're not legally allowed to have the day off.

My guess, this judge has no kids.

Or he has kids and they all hate him.

[Fubaya]

Ohio Revised Code 2152.02 (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2152.02) (C)(6): "The juvenile court has jurisdiction over a person who is adjudicated a delinquent child or juvenile traffic offender prior to attaining eighteen years of age until the person attains twenty-one years of age, and, for purposes of that jurisdiction related to that adjudication, except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who is so adjudicated a delinquent child or juvenile traffic offender shall be deemed a “child” until the person attains twenty-one years of age."

Also: "(D) “Chronic truant” means any child of compulsory school age who is absent without legitimate excuse for absence from the public school the child is supposed to attend for seven or more consecutive school days, ten or more school days in one school month, or fifteen or more school days in a school year."

And: "(F) “Delinquent child” includes any of the following:
...
(5) Any child who is a chronic truant."

Then: 3321.38 (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3321.38): "If the juvenile court adjudicates the child as an unruly or delinquent child for being an habitual or chronic truant pursuant to section 2151.35 [procedures for hearings in juvenile court] of the Revised Code, the court shall warn the parent, guardian, or other person having care of the child that any subsequent adjudication of that nature involving the child may result in a criminal charge against the parent, guardian, or other person having care of the child for a violation of division (C) of section 2919.21 or section 2919.24 of the Revised Code." (2919.24 (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2919.24) being "Contributing to unruliness or delinquency of a child")