Motorcycle Newbie Question

[Survey1215]

I've been thinking about buying a motorcycle for awhile now and may be doing so this summer, along with taking my state's Motorcycle Safety Course. I'm looking at bikes like the Honda Rebel or Nighthawk, entry-level rides that seem to be reasonably priced, especially the used ones I'm seeing on Craigslist or eBay.

The question(s): What other bikes are similar to those Hondas as far as size, rideability, cost, etc? Anyone have an opinion on those Hondas?

[Dolores Reborn]

I had a Honda Rebel 250 and loved it. It was the same size as the one used in my Safety Course, and I felt pretty comfortable on it.

[Edward The Head]

The Honda 250s are good for taking the course on and going around town, but not so good on larger faster roads. If you want something that's small, slight and able to go a Kawasaki 250 Ninja is a good starting bike, cheap and reliable. I'm sure the others are as well, but if you asked me which one I wanted to ride it would be the Ninja.

Don't get something based purely on motor size, a 1000 sport bike is way too much, while a 1000 cruiser may or may not be.

[control-z]

If you're going 55MPH or less, a 250 Rebel should be a great bike and really good on gas too (75MPG maybe?)

I can tell you that a 750 Honda Shadow gets about 65MPG and has good power up to 70MPH or so.

[Asimovian]

My first bike was/is a Honda Nighthawk 450. It has been wonderful to learn on, although it is dying now (it's an '83 and a lot of the parts have been discontinued).

If you're looking for alternatives to the Nighthawk/Rebel, Suzuki makes a 250cc bike (http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/GZ250K8) as well, and Kawasaki actually has a 125cc street bike (http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=218). I don't know how well either is rated, though. I would suggest, however, that if you're planning to do ANY freeway riding whatsoever, you're going to want a bigger bike (in fact, the 125cc wouldn't even be legal to ride on the freeway in California).

I'd tell you to take the MSF course and then beg, borrow and steal rides on different types of bikes to get some idea of what you'd truly be comfortable on before you purchase.

[Bosstone]

I would suggest, however, that if you're planning to do ANY freeway riding whatsoever, you're going to want a bigger bike (in fact, the 125cc wouldn't even be legal to ride on the freeway in California).This is my problem. I've got about $6000 to spend once I get my license in a couple weeks, and I need (okay, okay, want) something that's highway-capable. A lot of bikes that can hit 75-80 easily aren't anywhere near that cheap. Maxi-scooters will get me that speed for that price, but as it turns out they're damned hard to find right now.

[RedSwinglineOne]

Those are both good first timer bikes. I recommend sitting on as many bikes as you can. The fit and your comfort level will have more to do with how much you enjoy riding than anything else. Buy used if at all possible, you might want to trade up before too long. Also pick something that won't be too damaged in a tip-over.

[control-z]

A brand-new Honda Shadow Aero 750 can be had for $6000 or so. I don't know if it would be terrific at 70MPH for long periods of time though, it really needs a 6th gear.

You could look into a used 1100, there are a lot of used bikes out there that haven't been ridden that much.

[Asimovian]

This is my problem. I've got about $6000 to spend once I get my license in a couple weeks, and I need (okay, okay, want) something that's highway-capable. A lot of bikes that can hit 75-80 easily aren't anywhere near that cheap. Maxi-scooters will get me that speed for that price, but as it turns out they're damned hard to find right now.Assuming you weren't going with a maxi-scooter, what type of bike would you be looking at? There are 600cc-1100cc cruisers all over Craigslist these days for $3,000 - $5,000 (I ought to know; I'm looking for them myself). Even some of the brand new smaller Yamaha V-Stars (as an example) can be had for under $6k.

[Bosstone]

Assuming you weren't going with a maxi-scooter, what type of bike would you be looking at? There are 600cc-1100cc cruisers all over Craigslist these days for $3,000 - $5,000 (I ought to know; I'm looking for them myself). Even some of the brand new smaller Yamaha V-Stars (as an example) can be had for under $6k.I started off wanting a touring cycle, but I can understand why they're not great for newbies. A cruiser ought to do fine if I have to give up on a scooter; that V-Star looks like a good option.

My main interest in a scooter isn't just the highway capability, but I'd like to be able to use it as my primary vehicle. The Burgman line (http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/ProductDisplay.aspx?modelCode=AN400K7&activeSection=OVERVIEW) has great storage capacity, but I suppose that can always be fixed with saddlebags on normal bikes. It needs to be comfortable, which obviously I'll need to figure out for myself. (I did check out a Burgman 650 Exec at a dealership and sat on it, and damn if it didn't feel perfect. I may have to scrape up some additional money to get it.)

I've found it's kind of a pain doing the research when I haven't taken the classes or gotten my license yet, since so much of it relies on hands-on experience.

ETA: Oh yeah, there are some used Burgmans floating around Phoenix, but apparently the line got an overhaul with the 07 models, so I'm a little leery of anything before then. Given that my options seem to be used or wait for the 09s, though, I may just suck it up.

[Santo Rugger]

Regardless of what bike you get, remember, wear your helmet, and no skin below the chin.

Bosstone, did you ever look into Kawasaki's ZZR or their ZX sport tourer series? I vaguely remember we may have had exchange before, but it may get you to look a bit deeper into touring bikes. If you're diggin' the cruiser look and style, but not the sportbike, it wouldn't be a good avenue to pursue. However, if you want a tourer, you should be able to find one a few years old at a good price. I like mine because it's got the power of a sportsbike without being as skittish and sensitive.

[Bosstone]

Bosstone, did you ever look into Kawasaki's ZZR or their ZX sport tourer series? I vaguely remember we may have had exchange before, but it may get you to look a bit deeper into touring bikes. If you're diggin' the cruiser look and style, but not the sportbike, it wouldn't be a good avenue to pursue. However, if you want a tourer, you should be able to find one a few years old at a good price. I like mine because it's got the power of a sportsbike without being as skittish and sensitive.I don't think we have. Those bikes don't look too bad, but sports bikes just don't look like they'd be too comfortable for me, though I've yet to try them out in earnest.

The MSF course starts on Monday, and I don't think I've ever been more impatient for something to begin than I am now.

[Turek]

A brand-new Honda Shadow Aero 750 can be had for $6000 or so. I don't know if it would be terrific at 70MPH for long periods of time though, it really needs a 6th gear.

I'll second the need for a 6th gear. I love mine, but at 70 MPH the RPMs are pretty high.

There are plenty of used Aero's on Craigslist for $4k-ish.

[Santo Rugger]

I don't think we have. Those bikes don't look too bad, but sports bikes just don't look like they'd be too comfortable for me, though I've yet to try them out in earnest.

The MSF course starts on Monday, and I don't think I've ever been more impatient for something to begin than I am now.The awesome part about sport touring bikes is that the pegs are farther forward and the handlebars are farther back than a regular sportbike. They're designed for touring, after all, and a lot of people drop the pegs a bit (1/2") and raise the handlebars (up to 4") for a more comfortable ride.

I know what you mean about being impatient, I slept about two hours the night before the range session!

[Asimovian]

Was anyone else sore after the first day of riding class? They kept emphasizing having my knees squeezed in towards the center, and I guess I just wasn't used to using those muscles in quite *that* way, and I felt it later. My wife said the same.

[Bosstone]

Was anyone else sore after the first day of riding class? They kept emphasizing having my knees squeezed in towards the center, and I guess I just wasn't used to using those muscles in quite *that* way, and I felt it later. My wife said the same.Ha. Yeah, I expect to be sore. It's been a few years since I've ridden a bicycle in earnest, and even then I'll wager it's not really the same as sitting on a motorcycle. I also figure I'm finally going to get a steady upper body workout, having to manhandle a 300-500 pound machine every day.

[Kuboydal]

I'll once again stand up for the Buell Blast. A 500cc thumper with 70 mpg and no trouble hitting 85mph with a 200lb rider. Simple, chokeless, nice large brakes, upright riding with a choice of seat heights. The exterior is made of the same material as golf balls and it weighs very little. This is the bike used for the Harley safety training courses and is a reliable commuter. My 2005 was $2000 on Craigslist with 2500 miles. It's quick but not a rocket. If the damn bike shop would just get my new front tire in I'd be riding today.

[Bosstone]

So while the boards were down I found a neat site. Best Beginner Motorcycles (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/). Plenty of motorcycle reviews geared toward newbies, as well as articles on what to choose. I was intent on a Burgman scooter before I found this site, and this article (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/why-600cc-motorcycle-not-good-beginner-bike-updated) does a pretty convincing job of explaining why a 250cc bike is a good starter. Now I'm figuring a Kawasaki Ninja 250 or a Suzuki GS500F might be the best choices to start with. I still think the maxi-scooters look better, but these are still pretty slick and likely more easily available.

[Santo Rugger]

Thought you didn't want a sports bike? I thought this was going to be your second bike for some reason. For a first bike (and I was thinking about posting this for Survey while I was on my way to work this morning) I would suggest a "naked" bike. That way, when you drop it, you just bang up some metal and not the plastic cowlings (which look a lot worse when cracked/scuffed than metal does).

ETA: From the linked article: preferable naked so you don't have to worry about scratching the fairings if you drop it in a parking lot

[Bosstone]

Yeah, I get the concept behind the naked bike, but that's pushing the aesthetics line for me. :) I suppose I may still go with one, though. I wasn't looking for a sports bike initially, but that website's fairly persuasive. Besides, they're significantly cheaper than the bikes I was originally looking at. I can get it paid off quickly and use it to learn on until I'm able to find the bike I actually want long-term.

[Zsofia]

So while the boards were down I found a neat site. Best Beginner Motorcycles (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/). Plenty of motorcycle reviews geared toward newbies, as well as articles on what to choose. I was intent on a Burgman scooter before I found this site, and this article (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/why-600cc-motorcycle-not-good-beginner-bike-updated) does a pretty convincing job of explaining why a 250cc bike is a good starter. Now I'm figuring a Kawasaki Ninja 250 or a Suzuki GS500F might be the best choices to start with. I still think the maxi-scooters look better, but these are still pretty slick and likely more easily available.
The boyfriend won't believe my protestations of "I don't want a motorcycle" when I keep, uh, looking at motorcycles, but he thinks I should get a bike like he used to have, a Kawasaki Eliminator. (I am, in fact, quite small and weak.) The advice I've been seeing is more to the Honda Shadow area. He says that's "too much bike" for me. (I already ride a little 49cc scooter.) I am somewhat afraid of being unable to pick the bike up, it's true. Is he right? It seems to me that the little Kawasaki would be essentially just like my scooter, instead of a "real" motorcycle. On the other hand, he loved that bike and he grew up riding his dad's giant Harley.

[Bosstone]

My hands-on experience is minimal right now, so I couldn't tell you. It seems like it shouldn't be a huge effort, though. I would imagine if you explained your predicament to a dealer or someone who owns one, they'd help you figure it out. At least as far as being able to pick up the bike, anyway. From what I can tell, though, 125s are the very very low end of the scale, and if your scooter doesn't have enough power to suit you it sounds like the next step up.

[Zsofia]

I mean, can you imagine how embarassing it would be to be standing by the side of the road trying to flag down burly guys on Harleys because my bike fell down and I can't budge it?

[Spiff]

I'll once again stand up for the Buell Blast. A 500cc thumper with 70 mpg and no trouble hitting 85mph with a 200lb rider.You could say the same things about another thumper (single-cylinder engine), the Suzuki Savage (now re-named the Boulevard S40).

It has a 650cc engine, a very user-friendly power curve (power at low RPM), and can hit 85+ mph.

ETA: But if you are 6' or taller, the Savage will be too small for you, as will the 250s mentioned above such as the Rebel and the Nighthawk. By too small, I don't mean engine size ... I mean your body will be too big for the frames of these bikes.

[control-z]

I mean, can you imagine how embarassing it would be to be standing by the side of the road trying to flag down burly guys on Harleys because my bike fell down and I can't budge it?

It can be done. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4MPyX0QCYw)

Also in text and pictures. (http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/pickup.html)

[Spiff]

If you want something that's small, slight and able to go a Kawasaki 250 Ninja is a good starting bike, cheap and reliable.All true, but beware that this is still a sports bike, alebit a beginner's sport bike.

As such, however, your insurance rates will be very high, as sports bike riders tend on a whole to be in many, many more accidents than riders of other kinds of bikes.

[Zsofia]

It can be done. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4MPyX0QCYw)

Also in text and pictures. (http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/pickup.html)
I'm going to have to give that a whirl with my scooter. (This from somebody who has a bitch of a time putting that damned thing up on the center stand. That isn't strength so much as timing or ergonomics or something that I get some days and not others, though. I once got a stellar bruise doing it.)

[Bosstone]

As such, however, your insurance rates will be very high, as sports bike riders tend on a whole to be in many, many more accidents than riders of other kinds of bikes.Good point. I went looking for statistics of accidents by type of motorcycle and could only find a study from New South Wales in the time I had. (Fourth link down on this search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=HPIA%2CHPIA%3A2006-22%2CHPIA%3Aen&q=motorcycle+accident+sports+touring+cruiser), in case you want to view it as HTML instead of PDF.) Apparently sports bikes made up 39% of all accidents, and sports plus traditional plus trail made up 80%. Cruisers and touring cycles only made up 20%. I'd say that's probably because they're ridden by more experienced riders, but even so the study is only limited to riders age 17-25.

Most likely it's just because the sort of person who likes to ride a sports bike isn't going to be very safety-conscious, but that won't change the insurance rate. Food for thought, anyway.

[Kevbo]

It can be done. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4MPyX0QCYw)

Also in text and pictures. (http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/pickup.html)

You beat me to the Skert site. Be advised that this technique works only on surfaces with good traction for both the tires and your boots...if you spill on mud, gravel, sand,etc. other techniques are required.

[Zsofia]

How do you do it then? It seems like spilling on gravel is probably more likely than not. I guess in that situation I pick the gravel out of my hide and wait for the big guy with the hard beer belly on the Harley to ride by?

[Bosstone]

All true, but beware that this is still a sports bike, alebit a beginner's sport bike.

As such, however, your insurance rates will be very high, as sports bike riders tend on a whole to be in many, many more accidents than riders of other kinds of bikes.Sure enough, I had a bit of time and checked out insurance quotes on Progressive for a Suzuki GS500F (sports) versus a Suzuki Boulevard S40 (cruiser). The GS500F was a whopping $600 for 12 months, while the S40 was $366 for the same level of insurance. If I understand things right, they both deliver about the same level of power, which means you could get into equal amounts of trouble, but one's statistically more likely to be in an accident.

I'm not a huge fan of cruisers, but since I intend to keep two vehicles, keeping the insurance low may not be a bad idea. I bet I could learn to like 'em anyway.

[Santo Rugger]

<snip>If I understand things right, they both deliver about the same level of power<snip>No way dude, sportsbikes offer a lot more power per cc than a cruiser, almost by definition. The Boulevard S40 has about 30 horsepower, while the GS500F has closer to 50.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_LS650_Savage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GS500F

Sportsbikes are also a bit harder to learn on because of the crouched forward riding position and the fact that they're designed to go fast, so they're harder to maneuver at low speeds. Which is probably when you're going to lay it down.

[Bosstone]

Gotcha. Looks like I'm aiming for a cruiser if I can't find a maxi-scooter (and I probably can't). The S40 sounds like the best bet at this point, although I'm still looking around.

I took my second stab at finding a helmet today. Last time I tried, it didn't pan out so hot; it was my first time in the store and I felt self-conscious as hell. I feel like a chump admitting it, but I didn't actually realize there were different sizes and I was trying on mediums and smalls and wondering if my head really was that fat. :o Today I took a little more time to look and found a comfortable flip-front helmet that should do me pretty well. Those things are pretty neat, and much easier to handle than full-face helmets.

ETA: I just realized I've sort of taken over Survey1215's thread. I figured it was easier to keep newbie motorcyclist stuff in one thread. My bad, man.