Sports Illustrated insults Jeff Feagles and Jim Marshall just to suck off Brett Favre

[Two and a Half Inches of Fun]

In their piece on the most difficult things to do in sports, SI lists "starting 253 consecutive regular-season games [in the NFL]." Then they go on to admit this is not even the record. The record is 320 starts by Jeff Feagles, but 253 starts in not even the second best streak. Jim Marshall started 282 consecutive games. He gets no mention.

It looks like SI subscribes to old prejudice that punters are not real football players. And now apparently they have added defensive ends to their bigoted view of fake football players. How do you think they feel about the view that sports-writers are not real writers?

Bad form, SI. Bad form.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1139563/10/14/index.htm

[Justin_Bailey]

It looks like SI subscribes to old prejudice that punters are not real football players.

Punters may be a part of the football team, but they are not "Football Players." And only idiots would argue otherwise.

[Two and a Half Inches of Fun]

Punters may be a part of the football team, but they are not "Football Players." And only idiots would argue otherwise.

Fuck you. They are just as much football players as quarterbacks.

[Gatopescado]

Thread title longer than any post I've made.

[silenus]

Fuck you. They are just as much football players as quarterbacks.


Only if they're named George Blanda.

[Cyberhwk]

Fuck you. They are just as much football players as quarterbacks.Except for the fact they're only on the field for 5-10 plays per game (and even more rarely physically involved in the play).

While I agree their importance in under appreciated, I think comparing a QBs longevity to a punter's is a bit disingenuous. That's like saying, "Wow!!! Coach hasn't missed a GAME!"

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Jim Marshall was no fucking punter.

[neutron star]

Jim Marshall was no fucking punter.
From the OP: And now apparently they have added defensive ends to their bigoted view of fake football players.

[mshar253]

The OP admits the article admits that it isn't even the record. They acknowledge that Feagles has the record; what do you want, Feagles--who I imagine never took a hit in those 320 games--to be on the list of toughest sports achievements?

[An Arky]

Based on that, I'd say Marshall's the man. I would think that a defensive linemen would hit or get hit on almost every play. Not the case with a QB.

[RickJay]

Based on that, I'd say Marshall's the man. I would think that a defensive linemen would hit or get hit on almost every play. Not the case with a QB.
Exactly.

Irrespective of whether or not you think Feagles is a football player, SI screws up enormously here by implying Favre's streak is in any way more impressive than Marshall's. (Marshall isn't even mentioned.) I can understand saying Favre's streak is more impressive than Feagles's, because it is. But if you think a QB takes more punishment than a frigging defensive end, you must never have watched a game of football.

To characterize Favre's streak as "one of the hardest things" an athlete's ever done and ignore Marshall's substantially longer streak is pure media-hero-worship cocksucking and bad journalism. It would be precisely equal to me making a list of the most amazing baseball feats and including Lou Gehrig's consecutive games streak while completely ignoring Cal Ripken's.

[Blaster Master]

There is a distinct difference in playing Quaterback and Defensive line. Linemen do hit, and get hit, on virtually every single play they're on the field, while quaterbacks probably only get hit on less than a quarter of the plays. That said, linemen are expecting the hits, they're braced for the hits, and often they are delivering the hits, all of which are decidedly LESS brutal than often not expecting his, seldom being braced for them, and almost never delivering them. A blind-side hit on a quaterback by a guy that outweights him by at least 50 lbs is considerably more painful and career shortening than a number of hits linemen take.

The disparity in games, close to 2 seasons worth, is something that makes it a bit harder to judge which streak is more difficult. But I think it is fair to also consider that Brett Favre could easily go on to a number of other teams and start for another season or two.

In the end, yeah, it is poor form, they should have at least included his name in the article. I hardly think it's worth a pitting though.

[Cheesesteak]

Let me start off by saying for the record that I consider streaks nothing more than statistical anomalies that rarely tell you much about the player. Consecutive game streaks tell you the guy is tough AND was lucky enough to avoid injuries that would prohibit play. Lots of guys who play football are tough, who cares if someone is lucky?

Based on that, I'd say Marshall's the man. I would think that a defensive linemen would hit or get hit on almost every play. Not the case with a QB.OTOH, defensive linemen aren't asked to stand motionless looking 20-30 yards downfield while 4 guys 50+lbs heavier than he is are trying to knock the stuffing out of him. How often to you think Marshall was standing upright and got clobbered from behind by a bigger guy who had 4 full strides to get up to speed? QBs are targets.

Linemen also don't get sidelined by things like broken fingers, which would put a QB completely out of action, even if he's more than healthy enough to run around on the field.

Honestly, the best way to look at is is by position, or type of position, and see how the leader stacks up against other guys who play there. I don't know how each guy stacks up to others at his position, but that's how I'd compare the "greatness" of the achievement.

[DigitalC]

Except for the fact they're only on the field for 5-10 plays per game (and even more rarely physically involved in the play).

While I agree their importance in under appreciated, I think comparing a QBs longevity to a punter's is a bit disingenuous. That's like saying, "Wow!!! Coach hasn't missed a GAME!"


I guess a third string quarterback whos in the game for 0 plays isnt a football player either?

[An Arky]

Let me start off by saying for the record that I consider streaks nothing more than statistical anomalies that rarely tell you much about the player. Consecutive game streaks tell you the guy is tough AND was lucky enough to avoid injuries that would prohibit play. Lots of guys who play football are tough, who cares if someone is lucky?

OTOH, defensive linemen aren't asked to stand motionless looking 20-30 yards downfield while 4 guys 50+lbs heavier than he is are trying to knock the stuffing out of him. How often to you think Marshall was standing upright and got clobbered from behind by a bigger guy who had 4 full strides to get up to speed? QBs are targets.

Linemen also don't get sidelined by things like broken fingers, which would put a QB completely out of action, even if he's more than healthy enough to run around on the field.

Honestly, the best way to look at is is by position, or type of position, and see how the leader stacks up against other guys who play there. I don't know how each guy stacks up to others at his position, but that's how I'd compare the "greatness" of the achievement.

I can agree with that...I was replying to a previous post regarding Feagles almost never getting hit.

Anyway, I believe all three deserve tremendous respect for their accomplishments.

Feagles survived and thrived in a league where punters aren't highly regarded; they'll cut you if your average falls off by less than a yard or they think they can save a bit of money. And Feagles got cut/traded many times, and still landed on his feet every time...That he was able to keep the streak going with all of that is remarkable, indeed.

Farve not only started all those games, but played his ass off and played hurt in a position where most guys don't go more than a couple of seasons without missing games due to injuries.

Marshall, as I said, played a high-contact position, but also during an era where play was dirtier and riskier than today.

So yeah, all three are great in my book.

[Snarky_Kong]

Favre's streak is bullshit regardless. He's started games that he had no business playing in just to extend the streak. You can be in for one play and extend your streak, that's crap.

[Labrador Deceiver]

I guess a third string quarterback whos in the game for 0 plays isnt a football player either?

Your analogy doesn't make sense. Riding a bench every single game is not part of the quarterback's job when he is the starter. In the case of the punter, he is going to see extremely limited physical contact even if he is the starter.

[Gangster Octopus]

Favre's streak is bullshit regardless. He's started games that he had no business playing in just to extend the streak. You can be in for one play and extend your streak, that's crap.

Which games would that be?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Favre's streak is bullshit regardless. He's started games that he had no business playing in just to extend the streak. You can be in for one play and extend your streak, that's crap.
I don't remember Favre ever making any symbolic starts, though, or sitting significant portions of games. Maybe a few plays here and there, maybe even a quarter, but even that was rare.

[NurseCarmen]

Marshall never played hopped up on Vicodin.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

One can also add 22 playoff games to Favre's streak. Just for nitpicking purposes

I don't know what Marshall's would have been with playoffs added in. But it's damn impressive regardless.

[Gangster Octopus]

Marshall never played hopped up on Vicodin.

Are you sure?

Marshall was a great player, Favre was a great player.

Of course Marshall did run the wrong way once.

just sayin'.

[Snarky_Kong]

Which games would that be?

Off the top of my head... oh there was a game probably three years ago. He played the first series and then sat for a while, I don't recall if it was the rest of the game. He was coming off an injury and there was speculation that he wouldn't play. Maybe I'm blowing the severity his lack of playing time in that game out of proportion being that, as a Bears fan, I hate Favre. Sorry I can't recall specifics, it probably sounds like I'm making shit up.

[Snarky_Kong]

Hmm, I was probably thinking of the 11/19/06 game against the Patriots where he played a bit less than a half.

[Gangster Octopus]

Hmm, I was probably thinking of the 11/19/06 game against the Patriots where he played a bit less than a half.

He left that game because he hurt his elbow during the game.

[samclem]

One can also add 22 playoff games to Favre's streak. Just for nitpicking purposes

I don't know what Marshall's would have been with playoffs added in. But it's damn impressive regardless.
Marshall played in 19 additional.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

Marshall played in 19 additional.
That's awesome! :cool:

[jimmmy]

Marshall's jersey is on display in the NFL Hall of Fame in Canton as "the NFL Iron Man" (or was a while ago) but but he is not enshrined there (probably because Page and Eller from his same DL are already in & he only played in 2 Pro Bowls).

I agree that it takes some kind of weird reasoning to put Favre's achievement first

[SenorBeef]

I think punters can be football players, it's a matter of attitude. If the punter runs down with the coverage team and tries to hit someone, he's a football player. I remember Derrick Frost giving out one of the more brutal special teams tackles I've seen.

[Marley23]

If the punter runs down with the coverage team and tries to hit someone, he's a football player.
I thought punters were generally coached not to do that, so they can be the last line of defense if everybody else gets beat.

[Airman Doors, USAF]

OTOH, defensive linemen aren't asked to stand motionless looking 20-30 yards downfield while 4 guys 50+lbs heavier than he is are trying to knock the stuffing out of him. How often to you think Marshall was standing upright and got clobbered from behind by a bigger guy who had 4 full strides to get up to speed? QBs are targets.

Linemen also don't get sidelined by things like broken fingers, which would put a QB completely out of action, even if he's more than healthy enough to run around on the field.

Linemen face significant injuries, both during their careers and after. As exhibit A, I give you Mike Webster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Webster#Ailments). It has been surmised by some that while he was an extreme case, the extreme is not too far removed from the norm.

While we admire toughness in football players, we should also recognize that what we admire can (and often does) reduce the quality and length of football players' lives after retirement.

[Cheesesteak]

Linemen face significant injuries, both during their careers and after. No question, however there are factors that distinguish those injuries from normal QB injuries. The type of injuries they get, and the demands of the position make it more likely that they can play through the injury. QB is a precision position, he has to do much more than just run around and slam into other guys. Injuries that any average lineman would play through can sideline a QB, because he can't meet the demands of the position. That's why I would generally consider a consecutive game streak more unusual in a QB than in a lineman.

One other thought on Feagles, he was known as being one of the best directional punters around. That style sacrifices total kick length for reducing the chances of a good return. Fewer good returns means fewer chances to get blindsided by a block, or injured trying to tackle the return man.

[SenorBeef]

I thought punters were generally coached not to do that, so they can be the last line of defense if everybody else gets beat.

This generally seems to be the case. I'm not sure to what degree it's strategy, and to what degree punters aren't willing or physically able to be part of the coverage team. It's an interesting question whether having the punter back there as a last line of defense would be more effective than having 11 guys downfield together (if, say, you had a linebacker-quality athlete who was capable of punting).

[Really Not All That Bright]

This generally seems to be the case. I'm not sure to what degree it's strategy, and to what degree punters aren't willing or physically able to be part of the coverage team. It's an interesting question whether having the punter back there as a last line of defense would be more effective than having 11 guys downfield together (if, say, you had a linebacker-quality athlete who was capable of punting).
Hunter Smith is one of the three or four fastest guys on the entire Colts roster (so sayeth Dungy and Manning, anyway) and he does exactly what other punters do - stay in the backfield and hope it doesn't come down to you.

To answer the OP, Ray Guy belongs in the Hall of Fame, but Jeff Feagles' starting streak is not nearly as impressive as the other two.

[An Arky]

Ray Guy could kick the shit out of the ball, but didn't punt that well strategically, i.e. pin the other team deep with a coffin corner kick.

Dr. Z (Paul Zimmerman, who is a HOF selecter) said as much in a mailbag item in this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/12/14/petrino/1.html) column.

Ray Guy's name comes up every year and always gets rejected. A boomer who never bothered to avoid the middle of the end zone.

Which brings us to Steve of Toronto, whose aims are for modest for the Giants' Jeff Feagles, the best placement punter in the game today. Pinned the Eagles deep in the last minute with his perfectly placed effort, caused them to start on their own 11. Will these types of performances at least get Feagles into the Pro Bowl? Afraid not. Most of the voters look at numbers ... highest gross, and in rare instances, highest net. Feagles' work is appreciated only by people who understand the game, which eliminates about 90 percent of those who pack the Pro Bowl ballots.

It looks like punters aren't going to be getting any love from the HOF selecters any time soon.