Venture Brothers "The Invisible Hand of Fate"

[vibrotronica]

Another strange backstory episode, this time starring Billy Quizboy and Peter White. I'm not sure what to think about the direction the show is taking this season, but one thing is for sure:

The Nozzle is calibrating.

[Hypno-Toad]

I had to go watch it on adult swim today because I fell asleep at 10. But yeah, interesting back story. The Phantom Limb seems to have more backstory than anyone else. It was a little gratuitous to me to see the future Dr Girlfriend in that time and place. But what was with the green eyes?

Col. Gatherers disguise and comments are especially funny considering previous appearances.

And the OSI sequence was great for the way they sent up many aspects of GI Joe. Especially the leader of the Village People, I mean, combat team being called "Shore Leave."

"Do Not Move While ...The Nozzle... Is Calibrating."

[Johnny Ecks]

I liked this one fairly well- the GI Joe parody alone was worth the price of admission, but a few things bothered me- First, treating the Guild like a threatening secret society doesn't mesh with the way it's been treated before- Everyone seemed to know about it and accept it, maybe even approve of it (Orpheius's Arch tryouts, Rusty invokes the rules to get Dean released for medical treatment, Brock setting up security for the tag sale, the agreement the guild has with local police).
Second, where did Quizboy get his medical expertise? The guy can install cybernetic hands and reattach severed limbs- when did that happen?

On the other hand, the timeline seems to be fairly consistant, and it was nice to finally know Phantom Limb's origin- and Sgt. Hatred's as well!

[Hypno-Toad]

That was Sgt Hatred!? Holy Shit! I wondered why they showed that guy putting on a guild ring!

[Bosstone]

Second, where did Quizboy get his medical expertise? The guy can install cybernetic hands and reattach severed limbs- when did that happen?Haven't seen the current episode yet, but he gave Jonas Venture his robotic arm at some point in the previous two seasons. I think he gave Rusty a hand, too.

[The Hamster King]

Yeah, it was entertaining enough, and it clearly answers the question of Myra's relationship to the boys.

But I agree with Johnny Ecks ... it doesn't feel like it synchs up with the world from season one & two. Mr. White previously didn't have the unnatural attachment to Billy we see in this episode. They came across as disfunctional roommates, nothing more. (Think about the House of Mummies episode where he's totally cool with using Billy as a guinea pig for the shrink ray.) Where did Billy learn medicine? When did the Guild become so secret that most of OSI doesn't believe in it?

Part of the problem is that the world of the Venture Brothers is clearly ludicrous -- that's part of the fun. As long as they left it unexplained, I was willing to go along with it. But the more backstory they provide, the more holes they create. Grr.

[pepperlandgirl]

Jackson Publick said on his blog that he meant for this episode to be the penultimate episode of S2, but ultimately, the season finale turned into 2 episodes, so this one had to be moved to S3. He said that he wasn't exactly happy about it, but that's just the way it worked out. I don't think anybody needs to be concerned about the direction the season is going, since this was more or less an accident.

[CandidGamera]

I think the Guild is well-known.. in certain circles. It may also be that they've raised their profile in the last 19 years after the events of this episode. It's likely that after the signing of the Treaty of Tolerance, they laid low for a while to consolidate their influence.

Clearly, Billy Quizboy went on Card Sharks after these events, got money to put himself through school legitimately, and he and White founded Conjectural Technologies.

:D

[The Hamster King]

It's likely that after the signing of the Treaty of Tolerance, they laid low for a while to consolidate their influence.

Clearly, Billy Quizboy went on Card Sharks after these events, got money to put himself through school legitimately, and he and White founded Conjectural Technologies.The fanwank! It burns us!

[bouv]

I see it like this:

When Billy first heard Col. Gathers mention The Guild, he asked if it was the one from the Rust Venture cartoon. Clearly, that cartoon was based on the actual adventures of Rusty Venture and Team Venture in the 60's/70's, where they no doubt had lots of contact with The Guild (what with the formation of Rusty's Law and all.) So back then lots of people probably knew of The Guild. Twenty years later, The Guild has gone away, and people don't really think it existed, or was anything substantial, like the Jedi from Star Wars. In another twenty-ish years later (ie,"now",) The Guild comes back, but is now too burdened down with bureaucracy to be any real threat.

[Heller Highwater]

I think bouv has it. I just watched the episode on the AS website (I missed the first half last night), and I noticed that Brock mentioned something about trying to prove the Guild was still operating, rather than that it existed at all.

[ArizonaTeach]

And the OSI sequence was great for the way they sent up many aspects of GI Joe. Especially the leader of the Village People, I mean, combat team being called "Shore Leave."I think that Shore Leave was the code-name of the sailor...

[holmes]

I don't think they were mean to be Joes, but SHIELD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.I.E.L.D.)

[bouv]

I don't think they were mean to be Joes, but SHIELD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.H.I.E.L.D.)

Yes, they are more like S.H.I.E.L.D. in what they do, and especially the blue uniforms, but that little musical montage in this episode was a direct parody/satire of G.I.Joe.

Take a look for yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN034sBeF4c)

[ArizonaTeach]

I think that Shore Leave was the code-name of the sailor...Which, now that I reread your post, is exactly what you said. :smack:

[holmes]

Ah...I missed that part of the show. You are correct, sir!

[bouv]

Oooh, almost forgot, obligatory shirt-of-the-week link. (http://www.astrobasego.com/shirtoftheweek.html)

So far I'm glad I didn't shell out for the entire shirt club. While I liked the designs on the first two, I never wear black, so I would never wear them, and what's the point of a t-shirt if not to wear it? And this weeks? No thanks. A sub-par design, and another color I would never wear.

And there hasn't been enough talk about...The Nozzle. The Nozzle played an integral role in this episode and you people aren't giving The Nozzle the respect that The Nozzle deserves.

[Asimovian]

Yeah, it was entertaining enough, and it clearly answers the question of Myra's relationship to the boys.Really? I don't think it answered it at all. It's still not clear to me that she is the mother of those boys, and I think the show is toying with us on that very point.

[Maus Magill]

And there hasn't been enough talk about...The Nozzle. The Nozzle played an integral role in this episode and you people aren't giving The Nozzle the respect that The Nozzle deserves.

You obviously looked away from The Nozzle.

[Hypno-Toad]

Nevermind.

[Hypno-Toad]

Forgot to mention: Race Bannon doing a little wet work for the OSI was funny. And Steve Summers had a walk-on too.

[Bosstone]

Haven't seen the current episode yet, but he gave Jonas Venture his robotic arm at some point in the previous two seasons. I think he gave Rusty a hand, too.Now that I've actually seen the episode, I realize I completely misunderstood the question. I'm guessing this is something that's in the works to be revealed, maybe.

[CandidGamera]

The fanwank! It burns us!

Pah! Fanwank? I'm just interpolating from the facts provided.

[Curate]

Did anybody else notice what the sign painter was doing on Dr. Fantamas' door? He was removing a second name which appears to have been "R. Impossible." Maybe a signal that there will be some more backstory next week.

[Asimovian]

Did anybody else notice what the sign painter was doing on Dr. Fantamas' door? He was removing a second name which appears to have been "R. Impossible." Maybe a signal that there will be some more backstory next week.I caught that! My wife didn't believe me until I rewound. God, I love digital recorders.

It's getting a little weird that ALL of these people have crossed paths before, though.

[Just Some Guy]

Really? I don't think it answered it at all. It's still not clear to me that she is the mother of those boys, and I think the show is toying with us on that very point.

Not only that but two individuals who looked very much like the original patterns for Hank and Dean appeared in the episode. We were trying to figure out if they were time traveling or the originals or something else entirely...

On the other hand they definitively are not clones of Brock and Rusty which was my theory for the longest time.

[bouv]

Not only that but two individuals who looked very much like the original patterns for Hank and Dean appeared in the episode. We were trying to figure out if they were time traveling or the originals or something else entirely...


Where did you see them?

[Maus Magill]

Where did you see them?
HelpeR was holding them while Myra was being taken away.

[Paranoid Randroid]

HelpeR was holding them while Myra was being taken away.

I think he meant what could have been the original patterns, not the boys themselves. I'd be curious, too.

I'm glad to finally find out how Billy lost his hand -- but saddened that it ended up so undignified. Cool way to lose his eye, though. I'm rather surprised Phantom Limb hasn't demonstrated much of a grudge. Perhaps he's grateful?

[bouv]

HelpeR was holding them while Myra was being taken away.

Oh, you mean the babies? I thought you meant you saw teenagers in this episode that looked like Hank and Dean, hence the "time traveling" part. Clearly, this episode takes place about twenty years ago (since according to their "mom", Hank and Dean should be 19, not 16...clearly Rusty takes "time off" after their deaths before activating new clones, so they aren't as old as they should be.)

I don't see why time travel has to be involved...that's just the infant Hank and Dean, which IMO lends more credibility to Myra being the mother (we already know that she WAS an OSI member, not just a crazy ex-American Gladiator as Brock said, and Rusty did admit to fucking her.)

[Maus Magill]

I think he meant what could have been the original patterns, not the boys themselves. I'd be curious, too.Oh yeah - I didn't see anything like that.

[Asimovian]

I'm glad to finally find out how Billy lost his hand -- but saddened that it ended up so undignified. Cool way to lose his eye, though. I'm rather surprised Phantom Limb hasn't demonstrated much of a grudge. Perhaps he's grateful?Given recent evidence of Phantom Limb's lack of intelligence and observation skills, do we have any reason to think he'd even remember his relationship with Billy?

[Bosstone]

Given recent evidence of Phantom Limb's lack of intelligence and observation skills, do we have any reason to think he'd even remember his relationship with Billy?Exactly. The boy who screwed up his plans was William Whalen; the one who's running around with Venture and White now is Master Billy Quizboy, Boy Genius. Who on earth would think they're the same person? :p

[The Hamster King]

I'm rather surprised Phantom Limb hasn't demonstrated much of a grudge. Perhaps he's grateful?Well he did give Billy a wicked wedgie at the tag sale ... .

[kaylasdad99]

I don't see why time travel has to be involved...that's just the infant Hank and Dean, which IMO lends more credibility to Myra being the mother (we already know that she WAS an OSI member, not just a crazy ex-American Gladiator as Brock said, and Rusty did admit to fucking her.)
Does anyone else suppose that Myra might have represented a case of superfecundity? That blond-headed baby looked more like a little Brockling than a Rustyspawn.

[vibrotronica]

I watched this one again last night and liked it more. It's a really dense episode.

I'm still not clear on why Billy's memory had to be wiped. Was it because the Guild, who had infiltrated OSI, wanted to cover his memory of Phantom Limb's origin?

[bouv]

I watched this one again last night and liked it more. It's a really dense episode.

I'm still not clear on why Billy's memory had to be wiped. Was it because the Guild, who had infiltrated OSI, wanted to cover his memory of Phantom Limb's origin?

Probably because at the time, people didn't think The Guild was still around doing anything. Billy helped to find out that it was still around, so Sgt.Hatred (who was in OSI and a secret member of The Guild) had his memory wiped so he wouldn't go blabbing that The Guild is still around.

Or they just didn't want him to spill the beans about...The Nozzle. The Nozzle is very top secret.

[pepperlandgirl]

Oh yeah - I didn't see anything like that.

I did. I wish I had recorded the episode so I could say exactly when, but I definitely saw something that looked like Hank talking to Brock, except he wasn't tow headed. He looked just like him except for the coloring.

[Bosstone]

For the hell of it, I went through the Venture Bros. collection on Wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Venture_Bros.) just now. Check this out, from Victor. Echo. November.:That chode she's with, that's Phantom Limb. When he was in college, he was a scrawny little wuss. In a desperate attempt to be cooler than guys like me, he had his 12-year-old roommate create a machine that speeds up the muscle building process. The machine worked so well that every molecule in his extremities was accelerated beyond the speed of light.When he and Billy — that, you know, weird midget who won a bunch of money on Card Sharks — invented a time machine, he became a villain; and the way I heard the story is that the time machine was, like, broken or something, so Phantom Limb's arms and legs and Billy's hand were sent forty years into the future.
Dr. Venture: (about Billy's hand) How'd that happen anyway?
Master Billy Quizboy: That's an excellent question. I have no idea.Seems like Jackson Publick knew where he was going with this.

[Curate]

Where did you see them?

I believe the "prototype" for Hank was the OSI operative who appeared briefly delivering a message to Brock -- he looked like an older, but recognizable version. I think the Dean protoype may have been Stevie, the Prof's former assistant.

[kaylasdad99]

I watched this one again last night and liked it more. It's a really dense episode.

I'm still not clear on why Billy's memory had to be wiped. Was it because the Guild, who had infiltrated OSI, wanted to cover his memory of Phantom Limb's origin?
I got the idea that it was because psyops still needed guinea pigs for their memory wipe program. I also got the idea that Brock didn't give the OSI an opportunity to do it, so it's still kind of a mystery who did.

[Just Some Guy]

Where did you see them?

The guy who looks way too much like Hank to be a coincidence hands Brock a note in their base. The guy who looks way too much like Dean was apparently Phantom Limb's first lab assistant (though the astounding similarity vanishes when he turns and reveals the half burned face).

[ReuvenB]

The guy who looks way too much like Hank to be a coincidence hands Brock a note in their base.
The dead giveaway is the kerchief he's wearing.

[Revtim]

Sounded a lot like Hank too.

[Galena]

You know, as my really astute husband pointed out, this was ALL just a Master Quizboy flashback/recovered memory/hallucination. Strictly speaking, none of it has to be even close to accurate, since it occurred after he hit his head and whose to say he's remembering things correctly anyway...

[Bosstone]

You know, as my really astute husband pointed out, this was ALL just a Master Quizboy flashback/recovered memory/hallucination. Strictly speaking, none of it has to be even close to accurate, since it occurred after he hit his head and whose to say he's remembering things correctly anyway...
The Nozzle

says it's correct.

[Garula]

You know, I'm surprised they didn't think to put The Nozzle on the weekly T-shirt. I bet that would have sold much better.

[Galena]

Hey...does anyone know what's going on with the first episode of the season on Adult Swim's site? They've got all the scenes, but you can't play it from start to finish like you can the others, and I don't think the scenes are in order. I missed it and wanted to get caught back up.

[Maus Magill]

The guy who looks way too much like Hank to be a coincidence hands Brock a note in their base. The guy who looks way too much like Dean was apparently Phantom Limb's first lab assistant (though the astounding similarity vanishes when he turns and reveals the half burned face).
I just checked on my iPod.

The Note Guy is blond and has a neckerchief. That's about all I could see. Hank's head is more round.

The good side of Stevie's head is more rounded, less angular than Dean's.

I still think they are the natural result of a union between Rusty and Myra. Dean got the brains, and Hank got the crazy.

I could be wrong, though.

[Maus Magill]

I watched this one again last night and liked it more. It's a really dense episode.

I'm still not clear on why Billy's memory had to be wiped. Was it because the Guild, who had infiltrated OSI, wanted to cover his memory of Phantom Limb's origin?
I've been thinking. Why would Dr. Venture actually look like he cares about Billy's well being? The man is practically a socialpath.

Billy obviously has some use. Has his hand been recording for the last nineteen years?

[cochrane]

Hey...does anyone know what's going on with the first episode of the season on Adult Swim's site? They've got all the scenes, but you can't play it from start to finish like you can the others, and I don't think the scenes are in order. I missed it and wanted to get caught back up.
Hmm...I can't seem to find that episode on Adult Swim at this time. But I encountered the same problem with "The Doctor Is Sin". If you start with scene 1
and choose "Continuous Play" at the bottom corner of the player, it should play all the scenes in order.

[wolf in second hand clothing]

I just checked on my iPod.

The Note Guy is blond and has a neckerchief. That's about all I could see. Hank's head is more round.

The good side of Stevie's head is more rounded, less angular than Dean's.

I still think they are the natural result of a union between Rusty and Myra. Dean got the brains, and Hank got the crazy.

I could be wrong, though.

Yeah, I think the resemblance between the Venture Bros and these random one shot (probably) characters is simply that this is a cartoon and every once in a while two characters are going to be drawn similarly. In the commentary for "Tag Sale: You're It!" Jackson and Doc are joking about how one of the agents looks like Hank.

[Odesio]

Hmm...I can't seem to find that episode on Adult Swim at this time. But I encountered the same problem with "The Doctor Is Sin". If you start with scene 1
and choose "Continuous Play" at the bottom corner of the player, it should play all the scenes in order.


How can you tell which one is scene one?

Marc

[Galena]

sorry...double post...

[Galena]

How can you tell which one is scene one?

Yeah, my problem exactly. I'm about ready to say screw it and pay the $1.99 on iTunes!

[cochrane]

How can you tell which one is scene one?

Marc
I clicked on all of them until I got the one that seemed to be the start of the episode. Sorry, but that's basically what you need to do. Then choose "Continuous Play" and the player will sort out the rest of the scenes.

[Odesio]

I clicked on all of them until I got the one that seemed to be the start of the episode. Sorry, but that's basically what you need to do. Then choose "Continuous Play" and the player will sort out the rest of the scenes.


I tried that but the next scene didn't fit into the continuity. I'll just have to wait until it's aired again I suppose.

Marc

[kaylasdad99]

I just checked on my iPod.

The Note Guy is blond and has a neckerchief. That's about all I could see. Hank's head is more round.

The good side of Stevie's head is more rounded, less angular than Dean's.

I still think they are the natural result of a union between Rusty and Myra. Dean got the brains, and Hank got the crazy.I think Dean is. I also think Hank is the natural son of Brock.

[Paranoid Randroid]

I think Dean is. I also think Hank is the natural son of Brock.

It's certainly possible, but we see HELPeR holding both kids as OSI takes Myra away. At the time of conception Brock would have still been galavanting around with Hunter after the Guild -- we have no reason to believe that Brock would have had any relationship with Rusty before the bodyguard assignment.

[pepperlandgirl]

He knew Brock, though. Brock had been his roommate when he was in college, and he was the one who told Rusty that his dad had died.

[Paranoid Randroid]

Oh, duh. Yes. Ignore me. (I still don't think it's super likely Brock is Hank's father, though.)

[bouv]

He knew Brock, though. Brock had been his roommate when he was in college, and he was the one who told Rusty that his dad had died.

Ok, but how does that translate to "Hank is Brock's clone?"

We're to assume that almost a decade after they left college, Rusty "just happened" to have some of Brock's DNA lying around and decided to clone it? Sorry, I don't buy it. I firmly subscribe to the "Hank and Dean are the legitimate (albeit at this point several times cloned) sons of Rusty and Myra. Dean has Rusty's attributes (red hair and smarts,) while Hank has Myra's (blond hair and "strength." (he is physically stronger than Dean.))

Rusty admitted he fucked her, and neither he nor Brock disputed her claim that she was their mother. In no less than three flashbacks (from three different people, no less) we have seen her with Rusty in a "more than just a bodyguard" fashion.

It's very clear to me that she's their mother, and I dare anyone to try and offer any substantial evidence to the contrary. So far, the only things I've seen are people saying
"Well, Hank is blond like Brock...also, this last episode had that one random OSI agent who looked sort of like Hank"
Oh, so now he's a clone of Brock AND a random OSI agent that Rusty never met yet had his DNA so he could have an infant versions of him when Brock was assigned to operation Rusty's Blanket?

Sorry, but you're wrong. Very wrong.

[pepperlandgirl]

Um, I wasn't arguing that Brock is Hank's father. Paranoid Randroid said that we had "no reason" to believe Rusty knew Brock. I was reminding him(her?) that Rusty did, in fact, know Brock. I made no comment on the implications of Brock being Hank's father. So, I'm not "very wrong"-- I haven't asserted anything except a point of canon.

[wolf in second hand clothing]

Rusty "just happened" to have some of Brock's DNA lying around

It's not like that Brock's DNA would be particularly hard for Rusty (or T.S., as he was called in college) to get. Brock was slinging it all over their shared dorm room.

But yeah, I'm fairly convinced that the boys are the children of Rusty and Myra.

[Galena]

But yeah, I'm fairly convinced that the boys are the children of Rusty and Myra.
But the problem with this is that it makes too much sense. Far too straightforward to actually be the truth. :D