Canada - Quit Beatin Yer Women, Eh?

[fessie]

Wow, I didn't realize domestic violence was such a big problem Up North.

According to this site (http://www.canadianwomen.org/EN/section05/3_5_1_1-violence_facts.html) :

- Half of Canadian women (51%) have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence since the age of 16.

- Every minute of every day, a Canadian woman or child is being sexually assaulted.

- One to two women are murdered by a current or former partner each week in Canada.

[Annie]

OK, OK, I'll quit beating myself up!!!

[Indistinguishable]

- Every minute of every day, a Canadian woman or child is being sexually assaulted.

Poor girl...

[Ruken]

Wow, I didn't realize domestic violence was such a big problem Up North.

According to this site (http://www.canadianwomen.org/EN/section05/3_5_1_1-violence_facts.html) :
Any idea how this compares to the US?

[Hogwash]

The UK has a domestic violence murder rate of two a week, so a similar rate to Canada. I don't see why the US would be significantly different on a per-capita basis.

[Frank]

Any idea how this compares to the US?
NOW (http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html) has what would seem to extropalate to fairly similar per capita stats.

[Enderw24]

It puts the maple syrup on its skin or it gets the hoser, eh?

[Northern Piper]

according to this American site, the Family Violence Prevention Fund (http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/): On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.
Some back-of-the-envelope calculations:

- 3 deaths per day in the U.S. = 21 per week in the U.S.

- the U.S. population is roughly ten times that of Canada.

- 21 deaths per week divided by 10 = 2.1 deaths per week;

- which is roughly the same number as that cited by the OP for Canada: 1 or 2 per week.

Which is not meant in any way to downplay the issue - simply that the OP's thread-title seems to think the Canadian rate is higher than in other countries.

[Autolycus]

Wow, RO against a whole country. Well it's not really RO. Whatever.

Anyway, I didn't see an operating definition of "physical or sexual violence," on that website, so until I do, I'm not convinced of anything.

For the US, this article (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=913013) shows that 0.04% of Americans have been raped, or 1 in 2500 people.

It's not really relevant, but the article is actually very interesting. It claims that the 85% reduction of rape in the US over the last 30 years is either caused or correlated by the influx of porn since the 70s.

[Orual]

It puts the maple syrup on its skin or it gets the hoser, eh?

You are a bad, bad, bad person.

Just terrible.

::snicker::

[fessie]

Which is not meant in any way to downplay the issue - simply that the OP's thread-title seems to think the Canadian rate is higher than in other countries.

No - I was just surprised, I thought we in the U.S. had a bigger problem w/violence against women (and violence in general) than Canada. I thought they were supposed to be more mellow than us.

It's ironic because about a month ago we were at a party hosted by a Canadian couple, and his parents and siblings were there -- and I was really surprised by their subtle misanthropy. The women were docile, the men were drunk. And apparently quite bigoted (the kids and I left as the drunkenness set in, so I missed those rants). I wondered if they were unusual, as Canadians, or representative of the rural town from whence they came. Perhaps they were.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Do they cut off their feet, too?

[kathmandu]

It's ironic because about a month ago we were at a party hosted by a Canadian couple, and his parents and siblings were there -- and I was really surprised by their subtle misanthropy. The women were docile, the men were drunk. And apparently quite bigoted (the kids and I left as the drunkenness set in, so I missed those rants). I wondered if they were unusual, as Canadians, or representative of the rural town from whence they came. Perhaps they were.

Yeah, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to think that your encounter with one Canadian family is representative of an entire nation of people.

[FloatyGimpy]

It puts the maple syrup on its skin or it gets the hoser, eh?

Do they cut off their feet, too?

Bwahahahahaaa!! :)

[ArizonaTeach]

Yeah, I think it's entirely reasonable for you to think that your encounter with one Canadian family is representative of an entire nation of people.Well, to be fair, he was only there for 120 minutes, and by my calculations based on my knowledge of the population of Canada, he should have seen at least 8 rapes.

Obviously, the Canadians were on their best behavior.

[Harriet the Spry]

It's not really relevant, but the article is actually very interesting. It claims that the 85% reduction of rape in the US over the last 30 years is either caused or correlated by the influx of porn since the 70s.

Bwahaha! That is some laughably bad social science. What other societal changes have occurred starting in roughly the 1970s? He completely ignores the Pill, legalized abortion, and general changes in social mores which lowered the penalties/ risks for women to engage in consensual sex. If availability of porn reduces the motivation to rape, imagine what the availability of actual sex with women could do!

The paper applies a certain legal logic that attempts to make the best case for its argument by selectively presenting facts. Maybe there's some greater nutjob out there correlating the decline in rape rates with improved automotive gas mileage or declining long-distance phone rates.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Bwahaha! That is some laughably bad social science. What other societal changes have occurred starting in roughly the 1970s? He completely ignores the Pill, legalized abortion, and general changes in social mores which lowered the penalties/ risks for women to engage in consensual sex. If availability of porn reduces the motivation to rape, imagine what the availability of actual sex with women could do!

The paper applies a certain legal logic that attempts to make the best case for its argument by selectively presenting facts. Maybe there's some greater nutjob out there correlating the decline in rape rates with improved automotive gas mileage or declining long-distance phone rates.

I don't know about that. Porn keeps me from raping my wife, so I've got that going for me.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I don't know about that. Porn keeps me from raping my wife, so I've got that going for me.
Your wife does porn?

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Your wife does porn?
Ha. I was jokingly referencing the "death of sex" that is marriage.

TBH, we don't have much sex anymore, because we don't want anymore children, she can't seem to find a pill that doesn't make her sick, I refuse to get a vasectomy, and condoms are a middling proposition for a married guy at best.

I mean, I thought that when I got married it meant I didn't need those rubbers anymore!

Boy was I wrong!

:D

[Really Not All That Bright]

Well, since you won't, can I have sex with your wife? ;)

[Amp]

The line forms 'round back buddy.

[fessie]

Isn't that called a Daisy Chain?

[danceswithcats]

I was really surprised to read about battered women. All of these years I've been eating mine plain. Must have some relationship to poutine. ;)

[ArizonaTeach]

The line forms 'round back buddy.Seems like the ideal solution to the pregnancy issue there.

[Autolycus]

No - I was just surprised, I thought we in the U.S. had a bigger problem w/violence against women (and violence in general) than Canada. I thought they were supposed to be more mellow than us.

While it's no statistically valid sample, and with all due respect, I think the fact that you haven't been ripped a new asshole in this thread is proof enough of Canadians' mellowness.

[Cat Whisperer]

Yeah, dude. We're, like, totally pissed off, eh?

[RickJay]

- Half of Canadian women (51%) have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence since the age of 16.
This is a statistic that seems shocking at first glance, but when you actually parse it, is totally unremarkable. Take it apart carefully, and think about what it's actually saying; that half of all the women in Canada have experienced "an incident of physical violence" at some point in their entire lives, as defined by a self-reporting survey.

So if a couple of university students get into a fight in a bar over who spilled a drink on who, that counts towards this statistic. Note that they - quite deliberately - conflate serious sexual violence, such as rape, with minor altercations, like some chick pulling some other chick's hair in a bar brawl.

Most of the other statistics are similarly "wow" if you don't think about them very hard. "One to two women are killed by domestic partners every week" amounts to 50 to 100 murders every year in a country of 33 million people, making it, in relative terms, an extremely rare event.

It's not that I'm suggesting violent crime isn't a problem, but there's no evidence that in Canada, women as opposed to men are unusually vulnerable to violence. It's to be expected that an advocacy group will deliberately emphasize the seriousness of the problem they are paid to advocate about.

[Kythereia]

So if a couple of university students get into a fight in a bar over who spilled a drink on who, that counts towards this statistic. Note that they - quite deliberately - conflate serious sexual violence, such as rape, with minor altercations, like some chick pulling some other chick's hair in a bar brawl.

I'm finding this seriously disturbing. I got kicked in the shins by another girl in my third grade class, and I'm in the same boat as a girl who got viciously raped and assaulted?

I'm not sure about other cities, but in Toronto a while back there was a series of really effective ads for a women's shelter--a woman wearing both very expensive jewelry and horrible bruises along her wrists and cheekbones, with the captions: "he loves me, he loves me not, he loves me, etc." It's an issue that's there, and does get brought up, but I don't think we're worse than any other country in particular.

[RickJay]

I'm finding this seriously disturbing. I got kicked in the shins by another girl in my third grade class, and I'm in the same boat as a girl who got viciously raped and assaulted?
Well, no, because the statistic specifies violence at or after the age of 16, so unless you were one hell of a slow student, a third grade attack doesn't count. But if it occurred in Grade 12, yes, within the definition of that statistic.

This is a perfect example of why claims of those sort need to be carefully parsed. Statistics that conflate definitions or use large numbers to make emotional appeals are not to be trusted.

[Nanoda]

Canada - Quit Beatin Yer Women, Eh?
I could let her win once in a while, but honestly, she's got to learn how to play properly.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

I was really surprised to read about battered women. All of these years I've been eating mine plain. Must have some relationship to poutine. ;)
I think the batter tenderizes them and gives their exterior a crunchy texture when fried.

[Malacandra]

Bwahaha! That is some laughably bad social science. What other societal changes have occurred starting in roughly the 1970s? He completely ignores the Pill, legalized abortion, and general changes in social mores which lowered the penalties/ risks for women to engage in consensual sex. If availability of porn reduces the motivation to rape, imagine what the availability of actual sex with women could do!Wait, what? Rape's about getting sex, now? I thought it was meant to be about power and humiliation.

This is so confusing. :(

[Jamaika a jamaikaiaké]

- Every minute of every day, a Canadian woman or child is being sexually assaulted.

- One to two women are murdered by a current or former partner each week in Canada.
These two statistics are completely meaningless by themselves. Some useful statistics would be the same things given as percentages of the total (or better yet, total female) population of Canada. Then we could compare and contrast to other countries, and start to understand what these numbers mean. As stated, they mean nothing.

This lazy stats reporting makes me suspect that whoever wrote the linked page is either a little stupid or a little dishonest.

[fessie]

that half of all the women in Canada have experienced "an incident of physical violence" at some point in their entire lives

It wasn't "in their entire lives", it's "since the age of 16".


I don't really know much about the risk factors for domestic violence (now called "Intimate Partner Violence" by the CDC) in the U.S., so I looked at the CDC's website and found their fact sheet which states (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dvp/ipv_factsheet.pdf)

Risk factors for perpetration:
- Using drugs or alcohol, especially drinking heavily
- Seeing or being a victim of violence as a child
- Not having a job, which can cause feelings of stress

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

- One to two women are murdered by a current or former partner each week in Canada.

Well, DUH.

People you know are much more likely to murder you than people you don't.


They invariably have motive, means, and opportunity that a perfect stranger does not.


Next up- 9 of 10 burglaries happen in or near THE VICTIM'S OWN HOME!!!!!!!!

[susan_foster]

Well, to be fair, he was only there for 120 minutes, and by my calculations based on my knowledge of the population of Canada, he should have seen at least 8 rapes.

Obviously, the Canadians were on their best behavior.

That's it. You've finally done it. I laughed at this one. I am officially going to Hell. Now where can I find some pretty decorations for my handbasket?

Susan
Gonna be ridin' in style!

[Kythereia]

Well, no, because the statistic specifies violence at or after the age of 16, so unless you were one hell of a slow student, a third grade attack doesn't count. But if it occurred in Grade 12, yes, within the definition of that statistic.


Ahhh. :smack: In my defense, it was something like two-thirty in the morning...

[Cat Fight]

Most of the other statistics are similarly "wow" if you don't think about them very hard. "One to two women are killed by domestic partners every week" amounts to 50 to 100 murders every year in a country of 33 million people, making it, in relative terms, an extremely rare event.

Well, a country of 33 million that saw 605 homicides in 2006, according to Stats Canada (http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/071017/d071017b.htm).

From the report

The increase in spousal homicides was due to an increase in the number of men killed by their wives, up from 12 in 2005 to 21 in 2006. The large majority of spousal homicides against men were committed by their common-law spouse.

However, women are still much more likely than men to be victims of spousal homicide. In 2006, a total of 56 women were killed by their husband, 6 fewer than in 2005 and the fifth consecutive annual decline. One-quarter of these were committed by a separated or divorced spouse.

[Muffin]

Don't take that "Half of Canadian women (51%) have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence since the age of 16" statement too literally. This Statistics Canada study was only on women over 18, and did not include women from the Yukon, or the NWT, or who did not speak English or French well enough for the survey, or who did not own a phone. Since there tend to be higher levels of abuse against women who are younger, rural or northern, recent immigrants or aboriginal, or too poor to own a phone, one might expect even higher rates of abuse than reported in that study.

The next problem with the study is that the question of just constitutes physical or sexual violence. In fact, when one looks at the breakdown, the situation is not nearly as grave as the 51% cite suggests. For example, when looking at women who are or had once been married, the stats were:
Kicked, hit, beaten, choked, gun/knife, sexual assault: 16%
Pushed, shoved, slapped: 11%
Threats, something thrown: 2%

The study was made in 1993, when self-reporting was a fairly new way of conducting major studies on violence. In once sense, this made the study problematic, for it relied on the subjects being honest rather than relying on hospital, police and court records. In another sense, it made a significant step forward in determing the direction in which the real stats might lay, for abused people (particularly men) often do not report the abuse.

What is well worth reviewing is the ongoing series of studies and reports conducted by Statistics Canada into domestic violence (both male and female). It is riviting stuff, often very insightful, and usually leading one to even further questions: http://www.statcan.ca/bsolc/english/bsolc?catno=85-224-X&CHROPG=1#issue1998000

[Nava]

Muffin, while it's true that the pollers probably didn't design their targets properly, for your first paragraph see also RickJay's posts 27 and 29.

That one time when I was in 11th grade and some chick from another school brought her friends over to beat me and my friends up because the guy she liked had been looking at me (I swear I didn't even know who the hell the dude was until someone pointed him out) counts the same as, say, my grandfather trying to convince me to get into prostitution? Oh wait. Gramps wasn't using violence, therefore he doesn't count but the weird chick does...

A badly defined question, if I've ever seen one.

[CarnalK]

TBH, we don't have much sex anymore, because we don't want anymore children, she can't seem to find a pill that doesn't make her sick, I refuse to get a vasectomy, and condoms are a middling proposition for a married guy at best.

I mean, I thought that when I got married it meant I didn't need those rubbers anymore!

That's crazy dude. I think it's pretty silly for you to refuse a vasectomy in that situation but if you are going to stand fast then check out an IUD for your wife.

[Happy Scrappy Hero Pup]

If the choice was vasectomy, condoms, or no sex, I'd probably go condoms, vasectomy, no sex in that order.


As in, "condoms beating vasectomy by half a length with no sex recording a DNF (maybe even a DNS)."