Johnny Depp to play the Riddler?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/2480975/Batman-sequel-to-The-Dark-Knight-Johnny-Depp-to-play-The-Riddler.html)
Heath Ledger's performance as The Joker has set the bar high for Gotham City villains, but reports in the US say studio bosses have set their sights on Depp as The Riddler and Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin.

"Producers are convinced that the role of The Riddler is perfect for Depp. Johnny's a pro. He'll be able to take direction and still make the character his own. And what better Penguin is there than Philip Seymour Hoffman?" a source said.

They could be joining Angelina Jolie - the actress is reported to be after the role of Catwoman.
Not bad casting over all. PSH should be fine for Penguin. Depp can be a little hit or miss. He takes weird chances with characterizations and sometimes it works brilliantly (Keith Richards Pirate), but sometimes it doesn't work at all (Michael Jackson Wonka).

I think a lot's going to depend on how Nolan conceptualizes these characters. Like I said in one of the other threads, The question mark costume has got to go. Maybe they can find some otherway to incorporate some element of it, but I think too many costumed villains just won't fit into Nolan's DK universe.
Having said that, I do think that Angelina Jolie will probably look ok in a skin tight leotard. I also think she's a good actress who does well at these kinds of larger than life characters.

Of course, I still would have rather seen more of Ledger's Joker. :(

[Spoke]

I don't like it. I like Depp, but I don't like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it.

I'm thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible.

(I also can't imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.)

Having said that, I do think that Angelina Jolie will probably look ok in a skin tight leotard.

You do realize she just had twins? :)

I would hate to see the studio force megastars into the villain roles. I think that was part of what killed the last franchise. I'd rather cast actors of lesser wattage, who maybe come to the roles without a lot of audience preconceptions.

[Charlie Tan]

I don't think this will happen. With the success of #2, Nolan can do whatever he wants and if you look carefully, he's basically stayed away from American actors. In the first movie, he had Katie Holmes and Morgan Freeman. I guess Caine, Neeson and maybe Hauer has name recognition, but not as a-lister. Added Americans for the second outing are Eckhart, Gyllenhaal, Eric Roberts and Anthony Michael Hall. Nolan doesn't need an a-lister for any villain part and I think he'll stay away from them, so as not to remove focus from the Batman and the Story.

Hadn't Ledger died, there wouldn't have been as much brouhaha about his performance other than it being good.

I think Kristen Bell has a bigger chance than Jolie in landing the role as CW (and I think she'd be excellent).

[drm]

The Riddler, Penguin, AND Catwoman in the same movie? That is going to require a ton of plot and if this holds up, we're looking at another 150 minute movie, at least.

I wouldn't worry too much about Johnny Depp. Keep in mind that Chris Nolan has a good deal of say as to what type of Riddler he wants so if he wants Depp to dial it back, Depp has the ability. I think Chris Nolan deserves a little trust.

I've never been crazy about Catwoman as a villain and I was hoping that Batman would go off the beaten path a little in terms of villains, but as long as they stay away from Jim Carrey Riddler and Danny DeVito Penguin, I'll be fine.

[John DiFool]

I think the Penguin has been ruled out because the character is perceived by Nolan as being a bit too...well campy (no other word comes to mind) for this particular Batman universe. That's what someone posted in the big Batman thread.

I've seen Depp do very well in a number of serious films. This isn't Jim Carrey where even in his more "dramatic" roles is stil doing the smirk and the aside to the 4th wall and so on (and I liked what Carrey did in The Truman Show and Man in the Moon).

[Marley23]

I like Johnny Depp as much as the next guy, but honestly, does he have to be in every movie ever made? I don't know that he would be a bad Riddler, but he's not the right actor for every part. :p I get the sense some people would push for him to star in a Grandma Moses biopic.

Based on what he did as Jack Sparrow, which was great, I can see where people think he might work as the Riddler. I'd definitely give it a shot. But he didn't impress me as Wonka or Sweeney Todd, so I do have some concerns.

I like Philip Seymour Hoffman, but Batman Begins was very serious - I'm the last person in the U.S. who hasn't seen The Dark Knight, but I hope to get there Sunday - and it's hard to take the Penguin seriously. I won't say Angelina Jolie couldn't play Catwoman, it just seems a little trite. And the character might be best avoided in case anyone remembers the Halle Berry movie.

[Cisco]

Not that it's going to happen, but I'll probably stay home if either Depp or Jolie get cast. I love PSH but I'll also probably stay home if the penguin is in the movie at all.

[Hampshire]

I don't like it. I like Depp, but I don't like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it.

I'm thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible.

(I also can't imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.)

I agree. Depp is just way too theatrical. Jack Sparrow, Willy Wonka, Sweeny Todd, etc. Very Broadwayish.
I think Hoffman would be good except it would be just too similar to his MI:III bad guy. I don't think he's got a seperate bad guy in him.

[mlees]

Based on what he did as Jack Sparrow, which was great, I can see where people think he might work as the Riddler. I'd definitely give it a shot. But he didn't impress me as Wonka or Sweeney Todd, so I do have some concerns.

This brings up a question for me.

IMO, both Depp and Carrey show (in their best dramatic roles) that they have the talent to be in consideration for a role in the next Batman movie.

However, as you point out, some select (and recent) roles were less than stellar.

Is that the fault of the actor, or the director?

I think it takes a director with a clear vision, with a talent for communicating this vision to the cast, and motivating them into bringing out their acting chops to the fullest, that would make a Depp pick "not a bad one".

That said, hopefully a Riddler in the Dark Knight vision would not be as flamboyent as Carrey was made to play him in Batman & Robin.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Depp does have the ability to dial it back and play a role straight. I would point at Donny Brasco as an example.

[randwill]

The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can't we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies?

[MrBelding]

I'm pretty sure what Nolan said in this interview rules out the Penguin. From 2006:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinematical.com%2F2006%2F10%2F14%2Fchris-nolan-says-no-to-the-penguin%2F&ei=OzuTSLDJF6KOuwWzx5W_Cg&usg=AFQjCNEA4FXX48C15HX0q2WbstW2G6djww&sig2=Psea1jqnQtqbhY-HR-ErYA

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm pretty sure what Nolan said in this interview rules out the Penguin. From 2006:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinematical.com%2F2006%2F10%2F14%2Fchris-nolan-says-no-to-the-penguin%2F&ei=OzuTSLDJF6KOuwWzx5W_Cg&usg=AFQjCNEA4FXX48C15HX0q2WbstW2G6djww&sig2=Psea1jqnQtqbhY-HR-ErYA
That was only about TDK, though. He didn't rule it out for future movies.

[Frylock]

I don't like it. I like Depp, but I don't like this idea. Depp has the same weakness for whimsy as his sometimes collaborator Tim Burton. I suspect and fear that Depp would take the franchise back into campiness and thereby destroy it.

I'm thinking Batman needs to stay as far away from Tim Burton and his camp as possible.

(I also can't imagine Hoffman delivering a non-campy performance.)

My thoughts exactly on all three counts. This is going the way of "Batman Forever."

-FrL-

[Drunky Smurf]

I think we need new villians. And a movie with more than two viliians just gets convaluted and messy.

[Cisco]

The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can't we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies?
Agree 100%. With most of these comic book movies they have 40, 50, 60+ years of source material and they keep going back to the same well. Origin stories. Recycled villains. Gimme a break. I would love to see a villain done exclusively for a movie, if done right (as opposed to taking an existing villain and changing him for the movie.)

Edit: And not every movie needs multiple villains. It usually just makes it overly complicated and robs screentime from the better villain. The only case I can think of where it worked was X-Men, but there are multiple X-Men so that makes sense.

[The Batman]

I agree that these three villains are overdone. There's plenty of great minor villains in batman's rogues gallery.

As for the actors, I think Johnny Depp is gonna over do it of he gets picked for Riddler. He might be able to do straight serious movies but keep in mind that this is a serious batman movie and he's being sought to play The Riddler, too much camp potential and I just don't trust him for it.

Same for Angelina Jolie as Catwoman. She plays the same femme fatale in every action movie she's in. There were better suggestions in that catwoman thread.

And PSH as a villain? Maybe if he played some sort of Leonard Lake or John wayne Gacy psycho (of which there are plenty in the comics) than the aristocratic Penguin. I think people are just making rumors of good actors for the sake naming them. "How about that guy in the Capote movie? He's fat." "Your'e right! The Penguin!"

[John DiFool]

The Riddler? Catwoman? The Peguin? Geeze, been there, done that ever since the Batman TV show. Can't we have some new or maybe even original villians in these movies?

What are some lower-profile villians from the comics which could fit into the Bat-o-Nolan-Verse?

But pardon me for the following: isn't the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway? I'm reading the Wikipedia entry on him and that's always been the impression I've gotten. If so then yeah he may not fit into Nolan's world either. [I]May.

[KneadToKnow]

Depp does have the ability to dial it back and play a role straight. I would point at Donny Brasco as an example.
That was 11 years ago, though. Eleven years before Superman: The Movie, one could have said the same of Marlon Brando, but the next year he made himself a whole new kind of legend with his Apocalypse Now craziness. Can you point to something more recent to suggest that Depp can still dial it back?

[Justin_Bailey]

But pardon me for the following: isn't the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway? I'm reading the Wikipedia entry on him and that's always been the impression I've gotten. If so then yeah he may not fit into Nolan's world either. May.

Did you ever see Batman: The Animated Series? That's how you do The Riddler.

A serious businessman who treats his crimes (and life and death for that matter) as a series of puzzles and games. And if you refuse to play, bad things happen.

Can you point to something more recent to suggest that Depp can still dial it back?

Everything in the 2000s prior to the Pirates trilogy?

[Kamino Neko]

What are some lower-profile villians from the comics which could fit into the Bat-o-Nolan-Verse? [I don't read same BTW]

Hard to decide what qualifies as 'lower-profile'...

But, that said, some generally lower-level Bat-villains...Mr Zsasz (who had a cameo in Begins) would fit fine. Amygdala could work if he's toned down a bit - surgery - including the removal of his amygdala - made him emotionally unstable (worsening the homicidal tendencies it was meant to cure) and increased his strength, so his back story will have to be made a little less out there, but he's workable. Jeremiah Arkham could work, but, honestly, would just be retracing the path taken with Scarecrow in Begins.

Beyond those, if Nolan thinks Penguin, of all the characters, is too out there*, I don't think the Bat has many villains, beyond Riddler and Catwoman, who are really any use for the Nolan-verse.

But pardon me for the following: isn't the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway?

Yyyyeeeees, but no.

Most portrayals have him as quite theatrical - he's got the '?' festooned suit and bowler had, and the cane, and there's his whole riddle MO. So, he's far from subtle.

But he's rarely as over-the-top as the Gorshin/Astin version, or the Carey version near the end of the movie.

He does occasionally border on camp in the comics, though.

* If he thinks Penguin is more out there than Scarecrow, I have to wonder if he's familiar with the series beyond the 90s movies - even the 60s TV series Penguin is one of the most easily adapted villains the Bat has to a realistic universe. At his core, Pengy is a fat crime boss with a big nose, penchant for formal wear and umbrellas, and a love of birds. The umbrellas don't need to be trick umbrellas (but that wouldn't neccessarily be too out there, either - wouldn't be the strangest thing a gun has been hidden in), and the love of birds doesn't need to be taken to the point of informing the majority of his crimes.

[Pollux Oil]

And PSH as a villain? Maybe if he played some sort of Leonard Lake or John wayne Gacy psycho (of which there are plenty in the comics) than the aristocratic Penguin. I think people are just making rumors of good actors for the sake naming them. "How about that guy in the Capote movie? He's fat." "Your'e right! The Penguin!"

Did you see Mission: Impossible 3? Yeah, not exactly an Oscar-worthy movie there, but Philip Seymour Hoffman played a really good bad guy in that film. Also I suggest seeing Before the Devil Knows You're Dead, where he played a very conflicted character that has a good and bad side. I wouldn't put it past him to be able to pull off a very convincing and different villainous Penguin persona.

That being said, I hope Nolan doesn't pick Depp as the Riddler. I hope he finds an actor with untapped potential like he did with Heath Ledger. I believe when casting for the Joker was first announced, people were throwing around names like Tim Roth and Crispin Glover. When Heath Ledger was announced, all the Batman fanboys freaked. But now look at it, a lot of people don't think the Joker role should be handed off to somebody new and new villains should be introduced.

[AlmondJoy]

I was wonder who could be the next great villain for that franchise and I for one have complete faith in Johnny Depp

[RikWriter]

I was thinking that a good plot for the third movie might be taken from Nightfall...have Batman badly injured and recruit a replacement. Then have that replacement go rogue, killing bad guys left and right (including the Joker, which could happen with a quick scene and take care of that loose end). Batman recovers and has it out with his rogue apprentice.

[Justin_Bailey]

I was thinking that a good plot for the third movie might be taken from Nightfall...have Batman badly injured and recruit a replacement. Then have that replacement go rogue, killing bad guys left and right (including the Joker, which could happen with a quick scene and take care of that loose end). Batman recovers and has it out with his rogue apprentice.

You can't kill The Joker. Eventually, people will get over the wailing that happens everytime it's suggested Nolan should recast The Joker.

Heath Ledger is dead. It was a tragedy. It doesn't mean the show shouldn't go on.

[RikWriter]

You can't kill The Joker.

Sure you can. They did it way back in 1989. They should have done it at the end of the Dark Knight IMHO.

[CandidGamera]

The Riddler is NOT overdone.

Barely used in the animated series. Once used in the godawful Schumacher movies. A handful of appearances in the Sixties show.

[Spoke]

But pardon me for the following: isn't the Riddler kind of a theatrical, vaudevillian, over-the-top kind of character anyway? I'm reading the Wikipedia entry on him and that's always been the impression I've gotten. If so then yeah he may not fit into Nolan's world either. May.

Somebody (I forget who) suggested in another thread that the Riddler could be re-worked for the Nolan universe by borrowing from the movie Saw. I thought that was a good idea. Make the Riddler a more mysterious and utterly serious villain, who gets his kicks by creating deadly games. (But then again, that's pretty much what Nolan did with the Joker. Hmmm.)

As for Johnny Depp, I think he is capable of playing serious, but I think his instincts are to play broad. And given a role in a "comic book movie" I think he would yield to those instincts (to the detriment of the film).

Even if Nolan could get Depp to play the character straight, I think Depp fans would show up at the theater expecting a typical over-the-top Depp performance and would come away confused.

Bottom line, I think Depp (or any established A-lister) would bring too much baggage. Better to go with a rising star. I would even say an unknown, but I doubt producers would let you get away with that. In fact, I fear that producers will insist on A-listers in the villain roles, and that will be the ruin of the franchise.

As an aside, I have to say that I have never understood the fanatical following Philip Seymour Hoffman seems to have on these boards. In my view, he always just plays an ever-so-slight variation on...Philip Seymour Hoffman. (Yes, even when he was playing Truman Capote.) His range is extremely limited. So I vote "no" on Hoffman in the Penguin role.

No Depp, no Jolie, no Hoffman, sez I. Let some not-yet-fully-arrived actor make the villain role his or her own.

[KneadToKnow]

Can you point to something more recent to suggest that Depp can still dial it back?
Never mind. I answer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308644/)ed my own question.

[lissener]

Man, I really hope they continue to think outside the box and do NOT cast Jolie. If they go with "looks good in a cat suit" it should be someone capable of darkness, like Famke Janssen or Asia Argento. I still think it will be a better movie if they go with Helen Mirren or someone like that.

[Cisco]

Catwoman has been ruled out, according to Wikipedia. I hope they're right. I find her to be an extremely annoying character most of the time - MEOW, I'M SSSEXY! I LOVE AND HATE BATMAN AT THE SAME TIME! I'M EVIL . . . OR AM I JUST CRAZY? MEOW!

Although I really liked how she was portrayed in Hush.

[MrDibble]

People who are saying Depp can only do OTT - he's perfectly capable of non-scene stealing supporting performances, like in Chocolat. Or quieter leads like the afformentioned Finding Neverland or 9th Gate.

[Acid Lamp]

I'd like to see Killer Croc. Tone down the more recent monster aspects of the character and go back to the roots. He was a ex-wrestler and sideshow freak, turned serial killer and cannibal. Originally he was fairly intelligent as well, and one of the few villains who routinely kicked Batman's caped behind in a physical toe-to-toe. I'm not certain who ought to play him though, he'll need to be a big man physically, maybe Ingvar Sigurdsson? (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0797614/)

[Sage Rat]

As an aside, I have to say that I have never understood the fanatical following Philip Seymour Hoffman seems to have on these boards. In my view, he always just plays an ever-so-slight variation on...Philip Seymour Hoffman. (Yes, even when he was playing Truman Capote.) His range is extremely limited. So I vote "no" on Hoffman in the Penguin role.
I'd somewhat agree with that. Though I'd say that the Hoffman character is pretty funny and he does bring a lot of emotion into it (and he has played "drugged-out" Hoffman, besides the usual.)

More importantly though, I could easily see The Penguin as a Hoffman character, so I don't have any problem if he was to portray him. I actually think he'd be quit perfect.

The OP rumor sounds to me like BS, though. I can't imagine Nolan casting Jolie as Catwoman, which casts doubt on all the other roles listed.

[Argent Towers]

Hoffman would do a great job of The Penguin if he played him like Freddie Miles in The Talented Mr. Ripley. Snide, sarcastic, and pretentious, but with a dapper sense of style.

Depp as Riddler - please, NO! Johnny Depp has become way too typecast as Johnny Depp.

[GuanoLad]

I have just looked through some older threads from when people were speculating (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335977) about who would play the Joker, and the reaction when Heath Ledger (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=382145) was cast.

Maybe Paul Bettany should be the Riddler.

[Argent Towers]

Wow, I can't believe how opposed I was to Heath Ledger's casting back then, considering the fact that I thought it was the best thing by far about Dark Knight. I guess I really didn't realize how much they would change his physical appearance. I somehow thought that they were going to try to make the Joker some kind of pretty boy.

[Love Rhombus]

I'd still like what I thought they were working up to in DK: Anthony Michael Hall as the riddler. I could see him doing an elaborate "clockwork plan" bad guy.

Obviously, villains with powers are right out. I've been suggesting someone like False Face for a "disguise" bad guy.

Azreal might work as a "copybat" gone rogue, after all people think Batman's lost it anyway.

Perhaps Black Mask? Bane, Deathstroke or Deadshot called in to kill the Bat ("We need a professional, not some whacko.")?

[RikWriter]

Bane might work, but I'd rather see Deathstroke. A professional assassin going after Batman would be very interesting, particularly if he or she figured out he was Bruce Wayne.

[Justin_Bailey]

I'd like to see Killer Croc. Tone down the more recent monster aspects of the character and go back to the roots. He was a ex-wrestler and sideshow freak, turned serial killer and cannibal. Originally he was fairly intelligent as well, and one of the few villains who routinely kicked Batman's caped behind in a physical toe-to-toe.

Killer Croc showed up in the Batman Begins-Dark Knight animated bridge movie Batman: Gotham Knight. And that's how he was portrayed. He didn't get any speaking lines (as he was only on screen for a minute), but the idea is obviously in the back of Nolan's mind.

[The Batman]

Nolan didn't have anything to do with Gotham Knight.

[Justin_Bailey]

Nolan didn't have anything to do with Gotham Knight.

Not officially no, but I can't imagine the producers would play in his sandbox without running the storylines past him first, do you?

[Rachael Rage]

The OP rumor sounds to me like BS, though. I can't imagine Nolan casting Jolie as Catwoman, which casts doubt on all the other roles listed. You think?

I'm kidding, it is complete hogwash. This "journalist" did nothing more than read some message boards on the Internet and make a "news" story about it. There are no sources whatsoever, just "reports." That's nothing more than people bandying about who they might like to see in roles that may or may not exist in Nolan's universe*.

There's nothing wrong with speculation threads, but treating this garbage article as if it had any significance is an utter waste of time.



*which is assuming that Nolan is even doing the next film, or that there is a next film. Sure, it seems likely, but as far as I've read it's not a done deal.

[VarlosZ]

"What's green and purple and commits lots of crime? Whose only superpower is wasting your time?"



Please, not The Riddler.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The author said he got Depp and PSH from studio sources. It also said that Jolie was "after" the Catwoman role, but not that the studio was interested in her.

[garius]

anyone who thinks the Riddler can't be done well needs to go get a six pack of beer and sit down with a copy of Hush.

[The Batman]

Not officially no, but I can't imagine the producers would play in his sandbox without running the storylines past him first, do you?

Very much so, Nolan does not own Batman. The producers have as much need to get Nolan's approval as the comic writers.

Don't get me wrong, I agree Killer Croc is a good idea for the next film. However, the version in Gotham Knights does not fit the movies. The Scarecrow was in that same story and he was nothing like the one in the movies.

[MacSpon]

I suppose King Tut is out of the question for the next film...

[Rachael Rage]

The author said he got Depp and PSH from studio sources. It also said that Jolie was "after" the Catwoman role, but not that the studio was interested in her.No, he doesn't:

...reports in the US say studio bosses have set their sights on Depp as The Riddler and Philip Seymour Hoffman as The Penguin." (all emphasis mine) The author is careful not to say where the "source" came from, and certainly doesn't indicate that they have any affiliation with a studio, producer or even the entertainment business. It could well have come from the cab driver.

"Producers are convinced that the role of The Riddler is perfect for Depp. Johnny's a pro. He'll be able to take direction and still make the character his own. And what better Penguin is there than Philip Seymour Hoffman?" a source said. If this source had any legitimate tie with the entertainment or film business, don't you think the article would have said so?

If you want to be charitable and assume the source is connected with a studio and really did hear this from "producers," everybody's nephew in Hollywood is a producer - it doesn't mean they have anything to do with the Batman franchise. Just like everyone in the U.S. right now, they could be sitting around at lunch jawing about what A-list stars they'd like to see as villains. Big whoop. Not news.

They could be joining Angelina Jolie - the actress is reported to be after the role of Catwoman.Again with the passive "reported." By whom? When and where? No reason whatsoever to believe that she's ever been "after" any such thing.