Occupation: Student.

[mangeorge]

C'mon. If you don't have a paying job, you're (i)unemployed(/i).
Same for some other "occupations".
Peace,
mangeorge

[Cunctator]

I was paid to study my first degree.

[mangeorge]

Scholarships, etc, don't count.
And;
Brackets, stupid. Not those other thingies.

[Manda JO]

Unemployed means that you are looking for a job and don't have one. A student is no more unemployed than a stay at home mom or a retiree.

[even sven]

I'm a teacher. When the new school year comes I will teach a full load of courses at a university, hold office hours, and do all the things that university teachers are supposed to do.

I also will not get a salary. I'm a Peace Corps Volunteer. I'll get a living allowance and a small re-adjustment allowance at the end of my 2 years.

Am I unemployed?

A salary does not a job make.

[Harriet the Spry]

What's your real point? If a person is not looking for a job, the government doesn't count them as unemployed. Do you think it would make any sense for every high school and college student in the world to list "unemployed" when asked for an occupation?

If you think your brother-in-law's once a month underwater basketweaving class doesn't count as an occupation, just say so.

[mangeorge]

Unemployed means that you are looking for a job and don't have one. A student is no more unemployed than a stay at home mom or a retiree.
Yeah, them too.

[mangeorge]

A lot of students I know work as servers, clerks, associates at Wallmart and the like.
They're not unemployed.

[mangeorge]

What's your real point? If a person is not looking for a job, the government doesn't count them as unemployed. Do you think it would make any sense for every high school and college student in the world to list "unemployed" when asked for an occupation?

If you think your brother-in-law's once a month underwater basketweaving class doesn't count as an occupation, just say so.
Hey! Somebody moved this thread!
It was supposed to be in MPSIMS.

[Governor Quinn]

The forms I'm used to all say to be as honest as possible, and they all (in my experience) request information on academic status.

To not state it would be a crime.

[Rico]

Hey! Somebody moved this thread!
It was supposed to be in MPSIMS.

<mod>

More like the Pit, I think. Rant and rave all you want, kids.

IMHO > Pit

</mod>

[Manda JO]

Yeah, them too.

No, they are neither employed nor unemployed. They aren't in the labor force.

[mangeorge]

Okay.

[Blalron]

C'mon. If you don't have a paying job, you're (i)unemployed(/i).
Same for some other "occupations".
Peace,
mangeorge

According to The American Heritage Dictionary, 2004 edition:


oc·cu·pa·tion Audio Help (ŏk'yə-pā'shən) Pronunciation Key
n.


1. An activity that serves as one's regular source of livelihood; a vocation.
2. An activity engaged in especially as a means of passing time; an avocation.

Being a student may not earn any money, but it certainly is a means of passing time. :D

[Cubsfan]

Unemployed means that you are looking for a job and don't have one. A student is no more unemployed than a stay at home mom or a retiree.

Agree. They are both unemployed.

[NinjaChick]

Since we're in the Pit, why the hell do you care?

[Blalron]

I'm detecting a hint of scorn from the OP, as if having a paying job is the sine qua non of being a decent human being. This is not neccesarily the case, and the word "occupation" is ambiguous, as I've demonstrated with the dictionary cite.

Simply put, you're wrong. ;)

[Queen Bruin]

Sorry, when I quit my job to finish my studies, I considered being a student to be my new job. And I treated it as such, which is good because the donors of my big scholarship expected it of me.

[neutron star]

And I thought I ranted about stupid shit...

[Kythereia]

My tuition is over $5,000 this year, you bet your ass I'm employed!

[danceswithcats]

How about 'malingerer' or 'mendicant'? Take your chances on the reader not knowing the definition of the words. :p

[unstrung]

Even though I study pretty close to 40 hours a week, guess I'm just a slacker :dubious:

[Darth Nader]

Living off of savings for a while, and watching loving and living with my son as he grows up .

"Bum"?

[susan]

[stoned Homer]
As soon as I graduate I am so outa here!
[/s H]

[Colibri]

C'mon. If you don't have a paying job, you're (i)unemployed(/i).
Same for some other "occupations".


What, are you bucking for most ignorant post of the month?

Main Entry: 1em·ploy

1 a: to make use of (someone or something inactive) <employ a pen for sketching> b: to use (as time) advantageously <a job that employed her skills> c (1): to use or engage the services of (2): to provide with a job that pays wages or a salary
2: to devote to or direct toward a particular activity or person <employed all her energies to help the poor>

Bolding mine.

I'm sure I worked harder as a student than I ever did in a paying job.

The fact that you don't think being a student counts as an occupation means either 1) you have never been one; or, much more likely 2) you were never a good one.

[msmith537]

Maybe a better rant would be waiters, waitresses and bartenders who list their occupation as "actor", "writer", "singer" or whatever.

Until you make enough money to support yourself doing those activies, they are hobbies and your "occupation" is waiter, waitress or bartender.



The fact that you don't think being a student counts as an occupation means either 1) you have never been one; or, much more likely 2) you were never a good one.

I don't think it's an "occupation". I think it's just being a student. It's just convieneint to call your occupation student instead of "unemployed" or "not in the workforce yet".

[Aspidistra]

Yeah, them too.


Agree. They are both unemployed.


Sooooooooo. Awake at 5 am, continually supervising children till 8pm, plus potentially on call every night, seven days a week is "unemployed" is it? I won't even get into the cleaning/tidying/household maintenance side of things (ok maybe I will a bit. Hint: it's harder than sitting at a desk all day in an office)

:dubious:

:taps foot:

Please, do be my guest and justify THAT one.

[mangeorge]

Sooooooooo. Awake at 5 am, continually supervising children till 8pm, plus potentially on call every night, seven days a week is "unemployed" is it? I won't even get into the cleaning/tidying/household maintenance side of things (ok maybe I will a bit. Hint: it's harder than sitting at a desk all day in an office)

:dubious:

:taps foot:

Please, do be my guest and justify THAT one.
Don't forget that 4 1/2 hours a day keeping abreast of the soaps.
:taps index finger:
Guess I better put a winkie ;) here.

[liberty3701]

Do you know what a student does? Do you know what an occupation is? I seriously doubt it.

I mean, I have a fellowship, which means I get paid to be a full-time student and, as part of accepting the fellowship, I am not allowed to get any other job during the school year. But, apparently, that doesn't count as employment.

Neither does the 65+ hours a week I put into classes, reading, research, writing, presenting at conferences, groveling at my advisors' feet... that's not a real job. I don't have the luxury of a "real" job -- I don't get to leave my work in the office. The amount of shit I have to get done before I graduate so that I can get a decent job leaves little time for relaxing, spending time with my husband, going to the gym, taking care of my parents... sleeping, brushing my teeth, getting food.

Well, I need to get back to work at my nonexistent occupation. Enjoy your Saturday.

[neutron star]

Don't forget that 4 1/2 hours a day keeping abreast of the soaps.
:taps index finger:
Guess I better put a winkie ;) here.I got a shovel you can borrow if you want.

[sugar and spice]

The reason people answer occupation with student is because that's what other people want to know. Saying "I'm a student" in answer to "What do you do?" is more or less shorthand for "I actually don't have a full-time job, instead I am in school full-time ". If you're at a bar or a party and someone asks that question, they don't want your tax return, they're just trying to make @#$ conversation. If it's a marketing or research survey, well, for very practical reasons suits do distinguish between the guy who is looking for work right now and the guy who is not because he's in school, the logic being that in a few years the student will probably at least quadruple his income, unemployed guy not so much.

And as already pointed out, many students are in fact employed, as students. The university writes me a check every month and I pay income tax on it, so I don't know what else you'd call our little arrangement other than a job.

[bufftabby]

I've never had the luxury of listing my occupation as "student". I worked full-time and went to school full-time throughout my college career. I would have happily made my occupation simply "student" if that were remotely feasible.

I don't get the hate for the OP here. Disagreement, sure. Counterexamples, great. But some of this vitriol seems a bit uncalled for. I don't think he's trying to denigrate all of you who feel that he's improperly defined "unemployed" and "employment". He just hasn't thought it all the way through. What's more beneficial here, educating him or berating him?

[liberty3701]

I don't get the hate for the OP here. Well, when you work your ass off just to have people keep asking you when you're going to get a "real job," it wears a little thin.

[mangeorge]

OP (originally posted in MPSIMS, btw) didn't say nuthin 'bout no asses or nuthin.

[Bryan Ekers]

I occupy my time by studying, therefore my occupation is student.


The SDMB, however, is my preoccupation.



In either event, go march off to Nuremberg, ya freakin' grammar Nazi for whom square brackets are an enigma.

[Alessan]

Here's a question to the OP -

Would you say that people busy setting up a new business - say, a store or a restaurant - are unemployed? After all, they don't have any income, only expenses and lots of work. They're certainly not gainfully employed. What would you call them - and how do they differ from students?

[mangeorge]

Here's a question to the OP -

Would you say that people busy setting up a new business - say, a store or a restaurant - are unemployed? After all, they don't have any income, only expenses and lots of work. They're certainly not gainfully employed. What would you call them - and how do they differ from students?
I dunno. Is "business owner" an occupation? A job?

[mangeorge]

Can we substitute "What do you do for a living?" for "what's your occupation?"?
Check out the auxilliary eroteme.

[DianaG]

What's more beneficial here, educating him or berating him?
Why do I have to choose?

mangeorge, if what you really want to know is "How do you make money?" then ask that. Of course, one wonders why you want to know.

[mangeorge]

Why do I have to choose?

mangeorge, if what you really want to know is "How do you make money?" then ask that. Of course, one wonders why you want to know.
I don't recall asking any question in my OP.
In fact, I made an unambiguous statement. I think that anyone claiming "student" as an occupation is gilding the lilly at least a little.
I mean, somebody's paying for that education. Don't get me wrong, I think that's a good thing and I'm glad to be part of it. A lot of students would do better if they didn't have to have a job.

[Švejk]

What DianaG means, I think, but which I would agree with if she did mean it, is that the one asking for someone's occupation is usually not interested in how a respondent makes money, but in getting an idea of what they do all day. Since there's many people who are not wage earners, I think it's valid to say that you're occupation is being a student.

[mangeorge]

What DianaG means, I think, but which I would agree with if she did mean it, is that the one asking for someone's occupation is usually not interested in how a respondent makes money, but in getting an idea of what they do all day. Since there's many people who are not wage earners, I think it's valid to say that you're occupation is being a student.
Maybe.
I think that that person is asking you how do you make a living. The answer to that is often interesting.

[Cunctator]

Scholarships, etc, don't count.I was on the company's payroll. I received a fortnightly salary on which I paid tax. My job description was "university student".

In my book, that equals "Occupation: student".

[DianaG]

Maybe.
I think that that person is asking you how do you make a living. The answer to that is often interesting.
Why is it more interesting than "what do you do all day?"

[Jayn_Newell]

Maybe.
I think that that person is asking you how do you make a living. The answer to that is often interesting.
I don't make a living. My husband does that. And 'housewife' looks a lot better than 'mooch'.

Besides, many online forms that ask for your occupation will have 'student' and 'housewife' as choices. I think you're in the minority on this one.

[RTFirefly]

No, they are neither employed nor unemployed. They aren't in the labor force.Depends on whether we're going by the dictionary or the Bureau of Labor Statistics definition of 'unemployed.'

Merriam-Webster defines 'unemployed' as "not employed" and "not engaged in a gainful occupation." But M-W isn't calculating the U-3 unemployment rate.

[Green Bean]

Maybe.
I think that that person is asking you how do you make a living. The answer to that is often interesting.
Perhaps. But it's a different question.

Depends on whether we're going by the dictionary or the Bureau of Labor Statistics definition of 'unemployed.'

Merriam-Webster defines 'unemployed' as "not employed" and "not engaged in a gainful occupation." But M-W isn't calculating the U-3 unemployment rate.But what does "gainful" mean, then? It doesn't necessarily mean "money."

[mangeorge]

Why is it more interesting than "what do you do all day?"
"Alaska crab fisherman" would be more likely to be interesting to someone else than "retired", I would think. Or "student" or "housewife".
"What do you do" is usually the last thing I think to ask someone I meet. I'm nosier than that.

[Siam Sam]

I don't think it's an "occupation". I think it's just being a student. It's just convieneint to call your occupation student instead of "unemployed" or "not in the workforce yet".
But then every college town seems to have its fair share of "professional students." :D

I think putting "student" down under "occupation" is a fair call. "Unemployed" can often carry connotations of being down and out, a bum, whether that's fair or not. At least a student is at least theoretically engaged in something productive.

[mangeorge]

Perhaps. But it's a different question.

But what does "gainful" mean, then? It doesn't necessarily mean "money."
Sure it does. It means money, or those things we want money for.

[jtgain]

"What is your occupation?" is not the same question as "What do you do for a living?".

[mangeorge]

I still don't understand why students are so sensitive, but after poking around in ATMB for a while I think I know why this thread was moved. The rule, paraphrased:
No stirring shit up outside the Pit.
Didn't mean to, but I plead naivete.
Funny, posters get away with dropping cute little bon mots such as "slack jawed", "trailer trash", "nascar whatever" and the like.

[Hostile Dialect]

Erm, what? You want the entire world to change its definition of "Occupation" to fit some silly idea you had? You're deluded.

I got a shovel you can borrow if you want.

Don't worry about it. He brought his own.


I think that that person is asking you how do you make a living. The answer to that is often interesting.

What, are you with the IRS or something?

[unstrung]

"Alaska crab fisherman" would be more likely to be interesting to someone else than "retired", I would think. Or "student" or "housewife".
"What do you do" is usually the last thing I think to ask someone I meet. I'm nosier than that.
I can kind of see what you are saying here, but it makes sense to point out that Alaska crab fisherman as an occupation isn't interesting merely because one can make money as an Alaska crab fisherman - rather, it is interesting because of what it means for how that person spends their day.

[DianaG]

Exactly. I could tell you what I do for a living, but I assure you, it's not especially interesting. And I'd wager that very few people feel that the manner in which they earn their living is the most interesting thing about them.

[mangeorge]

Exactly. I could tell you what I do for a living, but I assure you, it's not especially interesting. And I'd wager that very few people feel that the manner in which they earn their living is the most interesting thing about them.
Which is, just maybe, why it's not the first thing I ask, huh.
You people need to quit injecting superlatives into my statements.
I think I'm through here. I've encountered one of those "vocal minorities".

[Hostile Dialect]

Are you serious? The entire world minus a few half-cocked would-be grammar Nazis is a "vocal minority" now? Whatever, man. Go ahead and run home crying.

[Gukumatz]

Vocation =|= Occupation.

Meaning a student has an occupation, but not a vocation.

[Alessan]

I dunno. Is "business owner" an occupation? A job?

Yes. "Business Owner" is an occupation.

[DesertDog]

A trade show I went to a while back had the usual nosey form to fill out for entry. Under Occupation they had the usual Management, Sales, Technical, etc. unti you got to the bottom where one check-box was labeled Student / Unemployed / Idle Rich Nothing about Retired, though.

[capybara]

So. . . the correct answer to the question "What's your occupation?" should be, for example, "$55,000 before taxes"?

And you started this, dear. You can't expect all these people in their 7th year in grad school to say "I guess he's right and I don't really DO anything. . ."

(I picked up a newsletter from a local environmental alliance yesterday and saw that their membership dues structure had an option for "Living lightly/ Student." I like that.)

[mrsspooky]

Im a student full time (studing law) but I also work practically full time. I fully support myself and do expect any payouts from my parents. Sometimes when filling in applications the only thing (when chosing from a list of occupations) that seems to match is selecting student. I am afterall in full time education. I work anything from 25 - 40 hours per week to enjoy the finer things in life (food, shelter, law books, etc). I think being a full time student is a really difficult thing to do on top of working and perhaps some people are not smart enough to be able to work and go to uni. Obviously there are many lazy students out there who purely choose to not work and have mummy and daddy pay for everything. Please please please do not put all students in the same boxes!

[mangeorge]

So. . . the correct answer to the question "What's your occupation?" should be, for example, "$55,000 before taxes"?

And you started this, dear. You can't expect all these people in their 7th year in grad school to say "I guess he's right and I don't really DO anything. . ."

(I picked up a newsletter from a local environmental alliance yesterday and saw that their membership dues structure had an option for "Living lightly/ Student." I like that.)
The amount of compensation doesn't matter.
Again, I didn't say (or imply) that students don't do anything. Others have said that I said that, though. Trying to bolster a weak sounding arguement, I suspect.
Many, if not most, grad students do have jobs. If I were a law student working as a law clerk and was asked my occupation, I'd say "law clerk". A resident doctor's occupation is just that, though he/she is still a student.

[Hostile Dialect]

Trying to bolster a weak sounding arguement, I suspect.

OK, really, this is just comedy at this point. Do you really not see the irony here? You've spent this entire thread trying to squirm out of defending your argument with anything even approaching logic and reason. The closest you come is making shit up and then using it as a cite.

[mangeorge]

Im a student full time (studing law) but I also work practically full time. I fully support myself and do expect any payouts from my parents. Sometimes when filling in applications the only thing (when chosing from a list of occupations) that seems to match is selecting student. I am afterall in full time education. I work anything from 25 - 40 hours per week to enjoy the finer things in life (food, shelter, law books, etc). I think being a full time student is a really difficult thing to do on top of working and perhaps some people are not smart enough to be able to work and go to uni. Obviously there are many lazy students out there who purely choose to not work and have mummy and daddy pay for everything. Please please please do not put all students in the same boxes!
Aren't those who claim "student" putting you all in the same box?
Please, somebody, read my OP.
C'mon,from m-w:
[quote]2 a: please —used in cajoling or pleading b—used interjectionally to express astonishment, incredulity, or recognition of a put-on
See!

[DianaG]

Okay, let's do revisit your OP.

C'mon. If you don't have a paying job, you're (i)unemployed(/i).
Same for some other "occupations".
Peace,
mangeorge

After all this, it seems you should be able to either justify it or admit it was silly.

[mangeorge]

Okay, let's do revisit your OP.



After all this, it seems you should be able to either justify it or admit it was silly.
"Silly' is the exreme reactions to such a mild statement. Thanks for bringing it back to light. Now show me what would elicit such a response as we've seen here. It's pretty obvious that I was simply expressing astonishment and incredulity.
I've learned a lot from this thread. A lot about wisdom.
And I live in a college town! One would think I'd have encountered this mystery affliction by now. :confused:

[DianaG]

Okay, never mind. You're clearly just kind of a tool.

[Hostile Dialect]

Seconded. He's not worth our time.

[The Walking Dude]

I'll point out that I do have a paying job that is actually student. I have another part-time job as well, but we'll leave that alone for now. Pretend it doesn't exist. I work 12-21 hours per week "in the office". In a classroom or lab, that is. I work at least that, if not more, at home dealing with many things, already stated, pertaining to that office work. I am paid, by various scholarship committees and by the federal government. Albeit that money goes straight to LSU, I still work my ass off for it. As a matter of fact, I am so damn good at my job that they even give me some extra in cash because I make more than I need for college. So, let's review. The OP simply states that if you don't have a paying job, you're unemployed. I, a student who will forfeit his non-school job for this exercise, work many hours a week and am paid moderately well for my time. That means I have a paying job. That makes me, by your definition, employed.

[Aspidistra]

Don't forget that 4 1/2 hours a day keeping abreast of the soaps.
:taps index finger:
Guess I better put a winkie ;) here.

Don't make me come over there and box your ears, whippersnapper!

[Sublight]

Don't forget that 4 1/2 hours a day keeping abreast of the soaps.
:taps index finger:
Guess I better put a winkie ;) here.
Try bringing this up with your wife and see where you end up putting your winkie for the next few months.

[unstrung]

C'mon. If you don't have a paying job, you're (i)unemployed(/i).

The amount of compensation doesn't matter.
These two statements together are... confusing.

But anyway, I think you need to clarify what counts as compensation. For example, I am currently working for a professor at my school. I don't receive a paycheck for this job, but they are letting me take a certain number of credit hours free of charge. I'm very definitely receiving compensation for my efforts, but very definitely not receiving any income per se. As such, my occupation is student, and I am quite certainly not unemployed.

[mangeorge]

Don't make me come over there and box your ears, whippersnapper!
Promises, promises.
And I haven't been up to snapping a whip in a looong time.

[mangeorge]

Try bringing this up with your wife and see where you end up putting your winkie for the next few months.
Not in your lifetime.
They (you) have soaps in Tokyo?

[mangeorge]

Seconded. He's not worth our time.
And ratified.
It is, after all, my thread.
Bub eye.

[Sublight]

Not in your lifetime.
They (you) have soaps in Tokyo?
There are soaps, but that word means something a bit different over here.

And if my wife is spending her days checking them out, something very strange is going on.

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapland)

[mangeorge]

There are soaps, but that word means something a bit different over here.

And if my wife is spending her days checking them out, something very strange is going on.

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapland)
I see.
$1000?
Hmmm.
:)

[pendgwen]

I'm curious whether you make a distinction between different kinds of students. When I was in college I considered student to be my occupation. My schedule consisted of classes, studying, sports practice, and choir rehearsal. Now I'm in medical school and just spent the past month working 12 hour shifts in a busy urban ER. Not only do I not get paid for my contribution to the public health system I am paying for the priviledge. Would you consider medical student to be a valid occupation?

[mangeorge]

I'm curious whether you make a distinction between different kinds of students. When I was in college I considered student to be my occupation. My schedule consisted of classes, studying, sports practice, and choir rehearsal. Now I'm in medical school and just spent the past month working 12 hour shifts in a busy urban ER. Not only do I not get paid for my contribution to the public health system I am paying for the priviledge. Would you consider medical student to be a valid occupation?
No. How hard you work doesn't matter. I have no doubt that many students do work very hard. I'm freakin' surrounded by students and I love it that way. Some who aren't gifted, mostly with a good memory, have to work harder than others.
But if you are a student, and work as a "barista" at starbucks, then your occupation would be "barista".

[unstrung]

No. How hard you work doesn't matter. I have no doubt that many students do work very hard. I'm freakin' surrounded by students and I love it that way. Some who aren't gifted, mostly with a good memory, have to work harder than others.
But if you are a student, and work as a "barista" at starbucks, then your occupation would be "barista".
Hmmm. Then what would my occupation be? I described my situation several posts ago...

[mangeorge]

Hmmm. Then what would my occupation be? I described my situation several posts ago...
Oh, that's easy. You're a teaching assistant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher%27s_assistant).
You used to be called a teacher's assistant, but I suspect some didn't like the possessive sound of that. Can't blame them, really.

[unstrung]

Oh, that's easy. You're a teaching assistant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teacher%27s_assistant).
You used to be called a teacher's assistant, but I suspect some didn't like the possessive sound of that. Can't blame them, really.
But I thought that didn't count as an occupation unless I was getting paid - as I mentioned, I receive no paycheck. Try again?

[intention]

mangeorge, first, I am not a student nor do I play one on TV.

The difficulty is that "unemployed" is a term of art. (A "term of art" is a word used in a very particular, usually very well-defined sense by those people for whom the subject is their business or field of work or study).

Now, for "unemployed", whose field of work would that be? Well, in the US it's the Labor Department, in particular, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, who say (http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm) :

Who is counted as unemployed?

Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:

Contacting:
An employer directly or having a job interview;
A public or private employment agency;
Friends or relatives;
A school or university employment center;
Sending out resumes or filling out applications;
Placing or answering advertisements;
Checking union or professional registers; or
Some other means of active job search.

Passive methods of jobsearch do not result in jobseekers actually contacting potential employers, and therefore are not acceptable for classifying persons as unemployed. These would include such things as attending a job training program or course or merely reading the want ads.So to be unemployed, a person has to meet three tests. They have to be:

Not working, and
Looking for work, and
Available for work.

Everyone else is either employed, or "not in the labor force". So students, or moms, are very definitely not "unemployed". They are simply not in the labor force.

Now the question "Occupation" on a form is asking a larger question than "Are you in the labor force". For example, "retired" is as valid an answer as "carpenter". So is student, or mother. And none of them is unemployed.

Me, I have no "occupation". My last four jobs, in chronological order, were three years as a construction manager for a multi million dollar resort project in Fiji, the summer as a sport salmon fishing guide on the Kenai River in Alaska, six months on the single-handed design and construction of a high end bedroom addition to a house in Hawaii, and currently CFO for a multi-million dollar company in the South Pacific.

What is my "occupation"? And when I'm between jobs ... am I "unemployed"?

Now when I first entered the labor force, I liked short-term work. But I was often unemployed. I didn't like it. It entailed a lot of worry and uncertainty.

But one day, I had a strange insight, and I adopted a new motto, which was:

Retire Early

...


...


And OftenAnd since that day, I've never been unemployed when I'm between jobs. I'm retired.

Sure, make me a good enough offer, I'll come out of retirement in an instant, that's how I got the job I have now ... and when I'm done with my current job, I'll retire again.

So at the moment, I'm employed, and about a year from retirement, with no unemployment in sight.

My best to all,

w.

[mangeorge]

But I thought that didn't count as an occupation unless I was getting paid - as I mentioned, I receive no paycheck. Try again?
No need for another try. Maybe I misunderstood "compensation" and "free" in exchange for services.

[unstrung]

No need for another try. Maybe I misunderstood "compensation" and "free" in exchange for services.
No, I'm pretty sure you didn't. In fact, you made a point of telling us exactly what does and doesn't count as gainful employment in this post:



Perhaps. But it's a different question.

But what does "gainful" mean, then? It doesn't necessarily mean "money."

Sure it does. It means money, or those things we want money for.

So, like I said, try again?

[mangeorge]

No, I'm pretty sure you didn't. In fact, you made a point of telling us exactly what does and doesn't count as gainful employment in this post:


So, like I said, try again?
I'll re-try:
I think we're somehow going in circles.
I had to go back and refresh my mood in that posting.
Anyway, those things you speak of as rewards for your efforts are surely included in things "we want money for" in the linked reply. Compensation, just as you said.

[unstrung]

I'll re-try:
I think we're somehow going in circles.
I had to go back and refresh my mood in that posting.
Anyway, those things you speak of as rewards for your efforts are surely included in things "we want money for" in the linked reply. Compensation, just as you said.
How is the university letting me take free classes a "thing I want money for"?

[pulykamell]

How is the university letting me take free classes a "thing I want money for"?

I assume mangeorge's logic (and, in this case, I understand it) is that those are classes you would normally pay to take, hence classes are a thing you want money for.

Anyhow, I was a barista when I went to college, and, if you asked me, my occupation was most certainly "student."

[unstrung]

I assume mangeorge's logic (and, in this case, I understand it) is that those are classes you would normally pay to take, hence classes are a thing you want money for.
That's the way I read it too, but I didn't want to put words in his mouth. Seems like that would be more a "thing they would want my money for".

But either way - if we're agreeing that compensation doesn't have to be in monetary form, then I really don't see the problem with "student" as an occupation. Students study, write papers, take exams, etc (their Work) in return for education and a degree (their Compensation). Both education and a degree are things that are clearly worth money, so what's the problem?

[pendgwen]

No. How hard you work doesn't matter. I have no doubt that many students do work very hard. I'm freakin' surrounded by students and I love it that way. Some who aren't gifted, mostly with a good memory, have to work harder than others.
But if you are a student, and work as a "barista" at starbucks, then your occupation would be "barista".
My point was not that I work harder as a med student than I did as a college student. It was that as a college student I my education consisted of going to class. As a medical student I am actually part of the labor force of the hospital. This year 4th of July happened to fall between student rotations so they had to do 1 of the 2 busiest trauma weekends of the year with no student labor. The paid staff was *very* glad to see the new crop of students when we arrived on July 7 and told us so repeatedly.

[mangeorge]

My point was not that I work harder as a med student than I did as a college student. It was that as a college student I my education consisted of going to class. As a medical student I am actually part of the labor force of the hospital. This year 4th of July happened to fall between student rotations so they had to do 1 of the 2 busiest trauma weekends of the year with no student labor. The paid staff was *very* glad to see the new crop of students when we arrived on July 7 and told us so repeatedly.
Sure they appreciate your work. So do I. I'm sure it's a valuable experience for you.
I watch "House". I know how it works. ;) <note the winky.