Olympic OS: Faked footprints. Who cares? (mild)

[Lobsang]

It has come to light that the feed shown to the people inside the stadium, of firework footprints walking towards the stadium was faked and pre-recorded.

You only have to give this a moments thought to realize that actually this makes a lot of sense.

Why go to the expense of actually reproducing foot shapes in the sky with real fireworks in locations outside the stadium, when the people inside the stadium are only going to see them on a screen anyway! It makes a lot more sense to show them an illusion.

And I think they more than made up for it (if there's anything to make up for) by the things happening inside the stadium which seemed illusory but weren't!

[Hampshire]

I DVR'd the opening ceremonies and I actually remember them saying they were computer generated while they were being shown.
If anybody thought they were real they must not have been listening to the host/mc/broadcaster/whatever-you-call-him.

[Alessan]

Those were supposed to be real?

[GorillaMan]

Those were supposed to be real?
My thoughts at the time, too.

[Noelq]

They were absolutely, absolutely beautiful. I don't mind one whit that they were pre-recorded, as they were seamless with the rest of the presentation.

And damn, those drums were awe-inspiring.

[Don't fight the hypothetical]

They announced that they were computer generated while showing them.

[GorillaMan]

They announced that they were computer generated while showing them.
Depends what commentary you were getting!

[MovieMogul]

I heard that they did send up fireworks just like the ones they CG'd, but since they didn't want to (a) take the chance that the synchronisation wasn't going to work, and (b) didn't want to spend the money necessary to set up a live aerial camera set-up to successfully track each successive footprint pass, they resorted to the pre-viz version for broadcast and for the stadium.

[Nanoda]

'zactly what I thought when hit with this breaking scandal today. BFD.

[Lobsang]

I DVR'd the opening ceremonies and I actually remember them saying they were computer generated while they were being shown.
If anybody thought they were real they must not have been listening to the host/mc/broadcaster/whatever-you-call-him.

Either that or they were watching from one of the countries where the broadcaster didn't bother to mention it.

[yojimbo]

More opening ceremony shenanigans. Nothing very unusual as Hollywood did it a lot back in the day, just look at Marni Nixon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marni_Nixon), but it still sucks to be the non-perfect kid with the great voice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7556058.stm Wearing a red dress and pigtails, Lin Miaoke charmed a worldwide audience with a rendition of “Ode to the Motherland”.

But the singer was Yang Peiyi, who was not allowed to appear because she is not as "flawless" as nine-year-old Lin.

[Lobsang]

Not sure how relevant this is here, one of the BBC commentators said "This is one thing that communism does well" (Paraphrased)


edit: I still haven't finished watching the OS on iplayer in its entirety.

[Kinthalis]

Not sure how relevant this is here, one of the BBC commentators said "This is one thing that communism does well" (Paraphrased)

Special effects?

[Lobsang]

Special effects?

Sorry, my bad. It was said in the context of the entire ceremony.

So I guess it refers to "Ceremonies on a Grand scale"

But I acutally think it would be more appropriate if the phrase was "This is something the chinese do well"

[Baldwin]

Olympic OS.

What does the OS stand for?

[ShelliBean]

OS = Opening Seremonies?

You know, it's like Pet Semetary. Just when you think it's dead, here it is again.

[Turek]

Olympic OS.

What does the OS stand for?

I dunno, but I'm sure someone will come along soon to point out how much better some flavor of Linux is.

[Marley23]

I can only imagine what this looked like on TV. All I've seen were unaltered photos of the fireworks and they were pretty stunning.

Is either of these stories, together or in aggregate, a big deal? No. Performances of the Star Spangled Banner are supposedly dubbed all the time. But I'm glad it's getting attention beyond the ceremony because these things are obviously part of the Chinese government's efforts to impress the Chinese people with their amazing and flawless display of competence and power - and if people find out they're faking parts of it, that's a good thing.

[Lobsang]

Ok then : DOH!


Ceremony! :smack:


Olympic OC

[Deftones]

Sounds like some members of the press are making much ado about nothing at all to piss on someone's Olympic parade. Lip syncing young girls and cgi'd footprint fireworks? Oh no! That's surely an international incident of some major concern there.

There are plenty of legitimate gripes about China but nitpicking technical details on an opening ceremony that were completely announced as having some pre-recorded moments (footprints) is pure nonsense.

So far the press is 0 and 3 for me. The underage scandal, fireworks, and lip syncing is really grasping for straws. The underage scandal is the most legitimate concern out of everything but they still need to cough up firm evidence and or an official investigation by the IOC for me to believe any of it off hand.

[Marley23]

Sounds like some members of the press are making much ado about nothing at all to piss on someone's Olympic parade. Lip syncing young girls and cgi'd footprint fireworks? Oh no! That's surely an international incident of some major concern there.
By that standard, who gives a fuck about the Olympics in the first place?
The underage scandal is the most legitimate concern out of everything but they still need to cough up firm evidence and or an official investigation by the IOC for me to believe any of it off hand.
You're right, the press should stop investigating stuff - better to assume that if anything important goes down, the interested parties will work it out on their own without the public getting involved.
As far as proof of this stuff goes, what do you want to see beyond the birth certificates showing these girls are younger than the Chinese government says they are?

[wolfman]

More opening ceremony shenanigans. Nothing very unusual as Hollywood did it a lot back in the day, just look at Marni Nixon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marni_Nixon), but it still sucks to be the non-perfect kid with the great voice.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7556058.stm

The thing that confused me was why they had a 9 year old on stage in a maternity dress.

[Deftones]

By that standard, who gives a fuck about the Olympics in the first place?

Are you honestly suggesting that the Olympics as a whole are now tainted by a few technical effects alterations in an open ceremony production? Unless the Chinese athletes are being CGI'd during their athletic performances I find the whole concern to be ludicrous nitpicking of the worst kind.


You're right, the press should stop investigating stuff - better to assume that if anything important goes down, the interested parties will work it out on their own without the public getting involved.
As far as proof of this stuff goes, what do you want to see beyond the birth certificates showing these girls are younger than the Chinese government says they are?
Links? If this is concrete why hasn't anyone personally hand delivered those documents to the IOC head office and made a case yet. If it's that cut and dry it shouldn't be hard to get their asses disqualified and cause a major loss of face.

No really, that's a genuine question. If there are documents and all sorts of evidence backing it up aside from a competing nation's former coach trying to add an asterix then what's with the delay?

This should be the scandal of the Olympic decade here..of Marion Jones proportion. Let's have that smoking gun and get 'er done.

[Terminus Est]

I dunno, but I'm sure someone will come along soon to point out how much better some flavor of Linux is.
Didn't you see the BSOD during the opening ceremonies? Bill Gates sure did: http://www.smh.com.au/news/off-the-field/bills-blue-screen-of-death-malfunction/2008/08/12/1218306871673.html

ETA: More pics here: http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-during-opening-ceremonies-torch-lighting

[Marley23]

Are you honestly suggesting that the Olympics as a whole are now tainted by a few technical effects alterations in an open ceremony production?
Uh, seeing as I never said anything like that, NO, I'm not suggesting it.
Links? If this is concrete why hasn't anyone personally hand delivered those documents to the IOC head office and made a case yet. If it's that cut and dry it shouldn't be hard to get their asses disqualified and cause a major loss of face.

Here's a New York Times story on the subject. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html?scp=2&sq=olympics%20china%201994%20born%20gymnast&st=cse)

The Times found two online records of official registration lists of Chinese gymnasts that list He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994, which would make her 14. A 2007 national registry of Chinese gymnasts — now blocked in China but viewable through Google cache — shows He’s age as “1994.1.1.”

Another registration list that is unblocked, dated Jan. 27, 2006, and regarding an “intercity” competition in Chengdu, China, also lists He’s birthday as Jan. 1, 1994. That date differs by two years from the birth date of Jan. 1, 1992, listed on He’s passport, which was issued Feb. 14, 2008.

No really, that's a genuine question. If there are documents and all sorts of evidence backing it up aside from a competing nation's former coach trying to add an asterix then what's with the delay?

This should be the scandal of the Olympic decade here..of Marion Jones proportion. Let's have that smoking gun and get 'er done.
[Asterisk, not asterix.] I'll submit two reasons: nobody wants to piss off China, who holds all the relevant records and can get rid of any evidence that doesn't prove what it says, and nobody really wants the scrutiny because everyone cheats and they think it'll make the Olympics as a whole look bad.

[Deftones]

Uh, seeing as I never said anything like that, NO, I'm not suggesting it.


Here's a New York Times story on the subject. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html?scp=2&sq=olympics%20china%201994%20born%20gymnast&st=cse)




[Asterisk, not asterix.] I'll submit two reasons: nobody wants to piss off China, who holds all the relevant records and can get rid of any evidence that doesn't prove what it says, and nobody really wants the scrutiny because everyone cheats and they think it'll make the Olympics as a whole look bad.
Wait..so no one was afraid to claim that they are cheating but they are afraid to take the additional steps of delivering it to the IOC as evidence or try and initiate an investigation?

Also, they say they pulled this information from some obscure database online? That must be quite a task to file the identity of 1.3 billion people on the internet for western agencies to peruse at their leisure.

I don't buy it. I have concerns about China on some things too but I feel there is a bit of an agenda here and it's just as lame as the censoring nationalistic biased spew you see in Chinese papers.

People busted Eastern European dopers all the time back when the USSR was something to be feared. People withdrew their athletes from competition as protest all the time back in the day. I don't see China as being more or less feared than the USSR. I think there just isn't enough genuine solid evidence to back anything up.

[Sunspace]

Didn't you see the BSOD during the opening ceremonies? Bill Gates sure did: http://www.smh.com.au/news/off-the-field/bills-blue-screen-of-death-malfunction/2008/08/12/1218306871673.html

ETA: More pics here: http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-during-opening-ceremonies-torch-lighting:eek:

And my Mac was made in China...

[Marley23]

Wait..so no one was afraid to claim that they are cheating but they are afraid to take the additional steps of delivering it to the IOC as evidence or try and initiate an investigation?
You're mixing "no ones" here. The press is not afraid to put the evidence of cheating out there, as you're seeing. Countries and Olympic delegations seem more reluctant.
Also, they say they pulled this information from some obscure database online? That must be quite a task to file the identity of 1.3 billion people on the internet for western agencies to peruse at their leisure.
Try reading more carefully, okay? You're BSing. The databases were described as a listing of Chinese gymnasts, of which there are not 1.3 billion in China. They even mentioned a specific competition and a specific date. Nobody said anything is "obscure," they used the most popular search engine in the world.
People busted Eastern European dopers all the time back when the USSR was something to be feared. People withdrew their athletes from competition as protest all the time back in the day. I don't see China as being more or less feared than the USSR. I think there just isn't enough genuine solid evidence to back anything up.
I'm not talking about fear that somebody's going to invade or blockade anyone. But I think all the major Olympic delegations have skeletons in their closets and they're happy with a detente - and since China has the records and the passports of the gymnasts, this seems like it would be a hard accusation to prove considering the effort it might take. But if He is listed in older records as as being born in 1994 and then suddenly is discovered to be the proper age for the Olympics in a newer document, I know what that suggests to me.

[Marley23]

Harvey Araton adds, (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/sports/olympics/13araton.html?hp) in a piece that is obviously commentary and not objective,

The international gymnastic governing body known as the F.I.G. said it was satisfied with the Chinese gymnasts’ documentation, despite reports suggesting three of the mites might be under the required age of 16. The International Olympic Committee, so heavily invested in a Games that China can be proud of, apparently does not want to know about the admission of a former Chinese gymnast who reportedly has claimed to have competed as a 14-year-old at the 2000 Sydney Games.

[...]

For better or worse, these are the shrug-and-don’t-tell Olympics, undoubtedly because it would be considered impolitic to embarrass the Chinese after they went to such great expense to throw the world this lavish party.

[Deftones]

Harvey Araton adds, (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/sports/olympics/13araton.html?hp) in a piece that is obviously commentary and not objective,
That's a lot of conjecture.

If they are so dead set on setting the record straight about China it wouldn't be far fetched for a large powerful newspaper like the NY times to send some of their "award" winning journalists to compile the evidence. They could submit it officially with complete press coverage in order to force a response. This idea that there's a far reaching conspiracy preventing all this is truly lame but not unexpected on the internet.

I just don't buy that they have all this supposed evidence and nothing is being done. Even if it is circumstantial it could kick off a major investigation. Some of what's going on here seems very agenda based to paint the Chinese athletes in the worst light possible.

[Marley23]

That's a lot of conjecture.
Granted.
If they are so dead set on setting the record straight about China it wouldn't be far fetched for a large powerful newspaper like the NY times to send some of their "award" winning journalists to compile the evidence.
Have you heard of visas? China doesn't have to let them in and doesn't have to share anything with them. As it is, China is not allowing the Olympic reporters unrestricted Internet access. And if they could get reporters in there, which Chinese officials do you think will cooperate with this investigation?
They could submit it officially with complete press coverage in order to force a response. This idea that there's a far reaching conspiracy preventing all this is truly lame but not unexpected on the internet.
To who, the IOC? I think we've seen how much the IOC cares about this right now. If this story has legs and sticks around maybe they will make an investigation.
I just don't buy that they have all this supposed evidence and nothing is being done.
So you don't think they actually Googled the stuff they said they Googled? :confused:
Even if it is circumstantial it could kick off a major investigation.
Not if the investigators aren't interested. Do you think the FBI is going to get into this? If the IOC decides this is not a good idea to investigate, regardless of the truth of the accusation, then they are not going to look into it.

[Deftones]

Granted.

Have you heard of visas? China doesn't have to let them in and doesn't have to share anything with them. As it is, China is not allowing the Olympic reporters unrestricted Internet access. And if they could get reporters in there, which Chinese officials do you think will cooperate with this investigation?

They don't need to actually go to China. They can go to the IOC office elsewhere and file a formal complaint and bring the cameras turn it into a media circus. That's a sure fire way of eliciting a formal response. There's a lot of insinuations in that article about far reaching conspiracies and judges who will penalize countries that complain etc.. that seem very far fetched.

Then again this is the same paper that gargled and swallowed all of Bush's Iraq "yellowcake" evidence too so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised here.


So you don't think they actually Googled the stuff they said they Googled? :confused:

No i'm confused as to how a few unverified dates on the internet count as hard hitting proof of wrong doing here. If they went to all this trouble in falsifying documents then why bother putting info up on the internet?

Not if the investigators aren't interested. Do you think the FBI is going to get into this? If the IOC decides this is not a good idea to investigate, regardless of the truth of the accusation, then they are not going to look into it.
No, I think what is happening here is that people want to believe it's true no matter what. There's a sheen of nationalistic self righteousness at play here. That's the real insinuation.

[Marley23]

They don't need to actually go to China.
Then what do you want them to do? Their journalists are looking into this and already found some evidence, but now you're demanding the paper investigate? :confused: I don't get it.
They can go to the IOC office elsewhere and file a formal complaint and bring the cameras turn it into a media circus.
That's not the job of a newspaper.
There's a lot of insinuations in that article about far reaching conspiracies and judges who will penalize countries that complain etc.. that seem very far fetched.
Far fetched how? Only a couple of years ago, there was a controversy where a figure skating judge said she was pressured to let the Russian team win, and organized crime was allegedly involved.
No i'm confused as to how a few unverified dates on the internet count as hard hitting proof of wrong doing here. If they went to all this trouble in falsifying documents then why bother putting info up on the internet?
The old dates were up for years and were later removed, and in one case, blocked by Chinese censors. Hence the need for Google cache. You apparently think a journalistic investigation starts with the conclusion.
No, I think what is happening here is that people want to believe it's true no matter what. There's a sheen of nationalistic self righteousness at play here. That's the real insinuation.
Ha! Not only are you the first person to ever accuse me of nationalism - and you're wrong - I don't give a fuck for gymnastics and I don't much care for the Olympics. I still think the facts in this case point to one conclusion.

[Terminus Est]

:eek:

And my Mac was made in China...
Macs don't bluescreen and Windows isn't made in China.

[Emerald Hawk]

Returning to the OP, here's some video that shows the real fireworks, unless it was planted by Chinese government agents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbZrI8onelg

Honestly, the real ones look pretty sweet and I actually like the ground view better than the air view. It really gives the impression that an invisible giant is going to step on you.


[Off Topic] If you want something to hate China for, personally I'm still pissed about their coverup of the February 15, 1996 crash of the Long March 3B rocket. They would have listed the death toll at zero if they thought they could get away with it. Only after video leaked out did they raise their number to 56, which is still meaningless and it's probably more like 200-500. (cite, scroll down (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/rocket061298.htm)) I couldn't care less about underage Chinese gymnasts or CG fireworks when they've done so many other things that are so much worse.

God I love freedom of the press in the US.

[Voyager]

They don't need to actually go to China. They can go to the IOC office elsewhere and file a formal complaint and bring the cameras turn it into a media circus. That's a sure fire way of eliciting a formal response. There's a lot of insinuations in that article about far reaching conspiracies and judges who will penalize countries that complain etc.. that seem very far fetched.

No i'm confused as to how a few unverified dates on the internet count as hard hitting proof of wrong doing here. If they went to all this trouble in falsifying documents then why bother putting info up on the internet?

No, I think what is happening here is that people want to believe it's true no matter what. There's a sheen of nationalistic self righteousness at play here. That's the real insinuation.
First, the birthdates were posted before anyone knew these girls were going to be in the Olympics. When they got on the team, that was when they got embarrassing. Second, the IOC's response, as shown in the Times article, was that the passports had a date making the girls legal, so all was fine. It is kind of hard to prove a forgery when the forger is the legitimate issuer of the document. Obviously the IOC is not going to stir things up.
Third, who is being nationalistic here? That an underage gymnast gets disqualified is not helping any one particular team. It's not like the US gymnasts would suddenly get gold.

Fourth, are you seriously claiming that the Chinese government wouldn't change the birthdate to help win medals?

This reminds me of when the environmental engineer at a place I worked came back from China on a tour, and gave a talk, with pictures, showing a lot of the pollution. A certain segment of our work population had a total fit that she was so anti-Chinese to have the nerve to show those pictures.

I read an interesting article about a poll. taken worldwide, on the perception of China in the world. Twice as many Chinese thought the world viewed them favorably as actually did. There was also a question on the perception of human rights in China - but the pollsters were not allowed to ask the Chinese that question.

[eleanorigby]

Macs don't bluescreen and Windows isn't made in China.


No, we get the beachball from hell aka the pinwheel of death, instead.

FTR, I think BOTH those girls are cute as buttons. I also think they both look "Chinese" (whatever that may mean). I'm glad that the singer's name is at least out there and she's not hidden away ala Debbie Reynolds' character of Singin' In The Rain fame.... (and Marni Nixon).

[Red Barchetta]

Is there a video online of the opening ceremony?

[Otto]

And now, it turns out the pretty little girl was lip-syncing (http://www.gulfnews.com/sport/Olympic/10236762.html). What's Chinese for Milli Vanilli?

First one to say "Mirri Vanirri" is a racist

[Deftones]

First, the birthdates were posted before anyone knew these girls were going to be in the Olympics.

They were involved in world competition already. If they were being groomed as competitors for future Olympics it doesn't make sense that all their profiles would be online like that. No really, think about this one for a minute and realize how lame it is.

When they got on the team, that was when they got embarrassing. Second, the IOC's response, as shown in the Times article, was that the passports had a date making the girls legal, so all was fine.

Actually didn't one official pretty much say he'd look into it if an official complaint was made? No one except the former U.S. coach has said anything. It just seems like he's trying to add an asterix besides the Chinese athletes to excuse the current team's chances at a gold. After all his wife is the current coach.

It is kind of hard to prove a forgery when the forger is the legitimate issuer of the document. Obviously the IOC is not going to stir things up.

No it's not obvious. The IOC didn't hesitate in kicking out a spanish doper and they haven't hesitated in the past in stripping medals with evidence. Re: Marion Jones.


Third, who is being nationalistic here? That an underage gymnast gets disqualified is not helping any one particular team. It's not like the US gymnasts would suddenly get gold.

It seems like the whole "cheating" accusations has reached a crescendo and directly corresponds with the number of gold medals China has won when competing with the U.S. It's funny how it seems like mainly the main competing nation is obsessed with this and no other country has brought this up even though they are also in the same events.

Fourth, are you seriously claiming that the Chinese government wouldn't change the birthdate to help win medals?

You're assuming the worst to justify a conspiracy. Unless there is more proof aside from a few online profiles then it's sort of silly to presume anything.

[Marley23]

No it's not obvious. The IOC didn't hesitate in kicking out a spanish doper and they haven't hesitated in the past in stripping medals with evidence. Re: Marion Jones.
You neglected the point he made (and I made) about the difference between proving doping, for which there is a blood test, and proving a forgery on a government document.
It seems like the whole "cheating" accusations has reached a crescendo and directly corresponds with the number of gold medals China has won when competing with the U.S.
This sounds an awful lot like "I just started paying attention to this."

Here's a story on the subject from Canada. (http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/gymnastics/story/2008/08/03/china-gymnastics.html?ref=rss)

Here's one from China Daily. (http://www.china.org.cn/olympics/news/2008-05/23/content_15422122.htm) And it says He Kexin is 14.

Yes, Karolyi is a biased party. We get it. If he were the source of the accusation, that'd be really important, but he isn't.

[Bill Door]

(snip) I'm glad that the singer's name is at least out there and she's not hidden away ala Debbie Reynolds' character of Singin' In The Rain fame.... (and Marni Nixon).

You said it. I was watching Spaced on DVD and there was a montage with Getting to Know You from The King and I and Marni Nixon got a screen credit for it, both in the end credits and in the subtitles. That's more than Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation ever gave her.

[Voyager]

They were involved in world competition already. If they were being groomed as competitors for future Olympics it doesn't make sense that all their profiles would be online like that. No really, think about this one for a minute and realize how lame it is.

First, I assume she was of legal age in that competition. Second, not everyone competing was going to make the Olympic team. Even despots nap sometimes. Third, you still haven't explained the discrepancy between the published birth year back then and that on her passport. She's a little young to be coy about her age, isn't she? Unless she's the Chinese equivalent of Jack Benny.


No it's not obvious. The IOC didn't hesitate in kicking out a spanish doper and they haven't hesitated in the past in stripping medals with evidence. Re: Marion Jones.

There is a bit of a difference between an individual competitor cheating and cheating officially sponsored. Especially when it is the host country, and especially when the host country is so sensitive to the smallest perceive slight. Not the furor about the guys coming off the plane with masks. "How dare you *cough cough* say our air is polluted!"

It seems like the whole "cheating" accusations has reached a crescendo and directly corresponds with the number of gold medals China has won when competing with the U.S. It's funny how it seems like mainly the main competing nation is obsessed with this and no other country has brought this up even though they are also in the same events.

Oddly enough no one is making a stink about the men gymnasts, who are clearly of age and clearly legitimate. They won fair and square, and more power to them. But it is one thing to tell someone not to be a sore loser, and another to say it when a few aces are falling out of your sleeve.

[Marley23]

By the way, the NY Times first reported on the age issue several weeks ago, before the games started. So this did not just pop up after the medals were handed out. It's not surprising that the topic is getting more attention now that the event has happened and more people saw the girls themselves, though.

[Marley23]

The Associated Press says it found a 2007 story by Xinhua, the Chinese government news agency, that referred to He Kexin as a 13-year-old. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/08/14/underage.gymnasts/index.html)

[Harmonious Discord]

Since nobody can leave actual footprints in the sky, they all are fake.

[GuanoLad]

The fireworks weren't fake, the helicopter shot was fake.

Real footprint fireworks did get let off as shown in Beijing, so the people outside the stadium saw the real thing. Just the cool shot of watching them approach the ceremony, as seen from above, was impossible to orchestrate so they artificially re-created it.