What would a Bull Moose believe?

[Saint Cad]

If the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt came and inspired a moderate Republican to restart the Progressive Party, what would their platform look like?

[mswas]

If the ghost of Teddy Roosevelt came and inspired a moderate Republican to restart the Progressive Party, what would their platform look like?

He'd be a Conservative Imperialist who fights for Civil Rights and Environmental Conservation.

[Saint Cad]

He'd be a Conservative Imperialist who fights for Civil Rights and Environmental Conservation.


But what specifically on today's issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc.

[Argent Towers]

He'd definitely be the strongest proponent of the Second Amendment in the country, and he'd be a big fan of hunting.

[Alessan]

He's also be an enemy of Big Business.

[mswas]

But what specifically on today's issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc.

Probably against illegal immigration, but also, everything I mentioned are today's issues also. Domestic Social issues are not the only issues of today. I don't know what he'd think of abortion. Maybe that abortion should be left to the states. ;)

[Little Nemo]

The National Progressive Party (aka the Bull Mooses) believed in a strong national government (especially a strong executive which was not limited by the courts). They wanted business regulation and a social safety net. They were also big of defense spending and wanted an activist foreign policy. They were also pro-immigrant (in contrast to later versions of the Progressive Party). I can't say what their positions would have been on abortion.

[Slithy Tove]

So, in other words, their domestic policy would have been what later became known as Welfare Capitalism and their foreign policy Neo-Conservatism?

TR would have gotten us into WWI earlier than 1917 - but to what end? To save the Czars' Russia (bad) or to save Kenernsky's (good? Or would he have been a proto-Putin?)

TR had a mixed report card on race relations: he had Booker T. Washington to dinner at the White House, but personally imposed group punishment on an all-Black Army unit after some of its members stood up to abuse from civillians in Texas. Regardless of that, the Bull Moose would probably fall into the same pattern as every other party since the end of Reconstruction: give the Southern Whites what they want in exchange of their votes, and advance the cause of blacks either at a glacial pace or at no pace whatsoever.

Abortion: same as above: publicy opposed, privately glad it was available so their daughters' college careers wouldn't be screwed up.

[Freddy the Pig]

Roosevelt combined attributes that are seldom combined today--extreme bellicosity in foreign policy, fundamentalist Christian imagery ("We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!"), and an economic outlook that would today be described as left-wing or liberal.

You can't combine those attributes and be successful today. Liberals won't stand for the neo-con foreign policy. Social conservatives won't stand for pro-regulatory and pro-high-taxation economic policy.

So if he were alive today, Roosevelt would have to decide which were his core beliefs, and which could be jettisoned to get elected. My take is that he would be a neocon's neocon, tacking as far toward "moderation" on economic issues as he could without alienating his base.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

fundamentalist Christian imagery ("We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!").
I've never understood whether this strain in TR was posturing, blustering, vote-gathering BS (as it is in most politicians) or his own private religious beliefs being expressed.

[Little Nemo]

Roosevelt combined attributes that are seldom combined today--extreme bellicosity in foreign policy, fundamentalist Christian imagery ("We stand at Armageddon, and we battle for the Lord!"), and an economic outlook that would today be described as left-wing or liberal.Roosevelt's beliefs had a common foundation. He wanted to fix things. So he wanted to fix social and economic problems at home and international problems overseas. He figured a strong centralized government (with him in the center) was the best tool for the job.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Also, I keep hearing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXRRMPQm4zU) song now (with a pretty funny typo on the intro card).

[magellan01]

But what specifically on today's issues like abortion, illegal immigration, etc.

"In the first place we should insist that the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equity with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming an American and nothing but an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any flag of a nation to which we are hostile. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people." - Theodore Roosevelt in a letter to the American Defense Society in 1919.

He also said that immigrants should be made to learn English within five years or be sent back home. And that “English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools.”

And that refers to legal immigrants. I think the problem we have now with illegal immigrants would make his head explode.

[What Exit?]

Roosevelt was also a peace maker, not just a hawk. He proved it time and again.

I am sure he would have modified many positions for today and would be in favor of most forms of conservation, support AGW reforms, probably support nuclear power as part of that reform.

The Abortion debate would pit his strong religious beliefs against his pragmatism. I would guess that he would compromise on this issue.

He would want a strong military to try not to have to use it if that makes sense to you.

I think he would have surprised many on the race issue. He would have been all for equality, though he would probably be against any federally mandated quota systems.

He would really be against many of the current big business practices. Especially the trust like status that several skirt and the various tricks use to avoid paying taxes and shipping jobs offshore.

I think he would have successfully out-mavericked McCain to the point that McCain would probably have just joined the Bull Moose Party. He probably would not have appeased the Neo-Cons or Theo-cons but instead really try to forge a middle party again between the excesses of the current Republican party and the Liberal Democratic party that preceded Bill Clinton and was still visible in candidates like Kerry & Edwards.

[DanBlather]

What's brown and sticky?
Barack Roosevelt's foreign policy.

[What Exit?]

What's brown and sticky?
Barack Roosevelt's foreign policy.
:confused:

[DanBlather]

:confused:"Walk softly and carry a big stick". Sorry, lame attempt at metahumor.

[Little Nemo]

He also said that immigrants should be made to learn English within five years or be sent back home. And that “English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools.”

And that refers to legal immigrants. I think the problem we have now with illegal immigrants would make his head explode.Maybe he'd be aware that immigrants are learning English faster today than they were in his era.

[magellan01]

Maybe he'd be aware that immigrants are learning English faster today than they were in his era.

IF that's actually true, he'd be happy. Fewer of them would have to be shipped back at the end of the five years. Win-Win. Assuming they'd be the law-abiding legal kind, not the sneaking in to where the have no fucking business kind. But I guess that goes without saying.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

What would a Bull Moose believe?
He would think Mrs Moose was sex-ay.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Denali_National_Park_Female_Moose_3000px.jpg

He would be alone in this, of course.

In actuality, the word Populist pretty well covers the Bull Moose Party.

[Elendil's Heir]

What Exit? has it, I think.

TR hated to walk away from a fight and would be more likely to "stay the course" in Iraq. He'd want to be sure that the troops were adequately supplied and led, though, and would be furious at the stories of returning vets getting short shrift from the DVA. He would be very concerned about Russia's aggression against Georgia, as he foresaw that the U.S. might have problems in the future with Russia. He would be eager to make common cause with other democracies against the rogue states and terrorists of the world.

A strong fiscal conservative, he would be appalled by the Federal budget deficit - mostly caused by his own (former) party! - and would do all he could to stem the tide of red ink.

He would be far to the left of most Republicans today in his support of environmental protection, conservation and public parklands. A skilled naturalist and scientist in his own right, I think he'd accept the evidence on global climate change and act accordingly.

A Neocon, in some ways, yes, but without their clumsiness or hubris. He was also pragmatic enough to look around and see how badly they'd gone astray, and learn from their mistakes.

We could do much worse than Theodore Roosevelt in the White House, then and now, and I say that as a proud Democrat.

[FriarTed]

Teddy mentions abortion here. He probably wouldn't be pro-choice.

On the other hand, there were certain crimes where requests for leniency merely made me angry. Such crimes were, for instance, rape, or the circulation of indecent literature, or anything connected with what would now be called the "white slave" traffic, or wife murder, or gross cruelty to women or children, or seduction and abandonment, or the action of some man in getting a girl whom he seduced to commit abortion. In an astonishing number of these cases men of high standing signed petitions or wrote letters asking me to show leniency to the criminal. In two or three of the cases — one where some young roughs had committed rape on a helpless immigrant girl, and another in which a physician of wealth and high standing had seduced a girl and then induced her to commit abortion — I rather lost my temper, and wrote to the individuals who had asked for the pardon, saying that I extremely regretted that it was not in my power to increase the sentence. I then let the facts be made public, for I thought that my petitioners deserved public censure. Whether they received this public censure or not I did not know, but that my action made them very angry I do know, and their anger gave me real satisfaction.
Ch. VIII : The New York Governorship

[What Exit?]

Teddy mentions abortion here. He probably wouldn't be pro-choice.

On the other hand, there were certain crimes where requests for leniency merely made me angry. Such crimes were, for instance, rape, or the circulation of indecent literature, or anything connected with what would now be called the "white slave" traffic, or wife murder, or gross cruelty to women or children, or seduction and abandonment, or the action of some man in getting a girl whom he seduced to commit abortion. In an astonishing number of these cases men of high standing signed petitions or wrote letters asking me to show leniency to the criminal. In two or three of the cases — one where some young roughs had committed rape on a helpless immigrant girl, and another in which a physician of wealth and high standing had seduced a girl and then induced her to commit abortion — I rather lost my temper, and wrote to the individuals who had asked for the pardon, saying that I extremely regretted that it was not in my power to increase the sentence. I then let the facts be made public, for I thought that my petitioners deserved public censure. Whether they received this public censure or not I did not know, but that my action made them very angry I do know, and their anger gave me real satisfaction.
Ch. VIII : The New York Governorship
He would not be Pro-Choice but he would probably not appoint justices based on a litmus test on this issue. That was the compromise I spoke of above.

I have spent a lot of time studying our greatest President. He was a fascinating man, one of the smartest and bravest men to ever serve as the leader of a powerful country.

[Bearflag70]

So which person today is most like TR? Sounds sort of like Arnold.

[What Exit?]

So which person today is most like TR? Sounds sort of like Arnold.
I don't think Arnold can match TR's intelligence and learning. TR was especially studied in Naval tactics and History and a brilliant Naturalist. Check (http://www.bartleby.com/80/) his bibliography (http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/trbiblio.html).


Here is a summary (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0860813.html):
During his busy career he had found time not only for hunting and exploring expeditions—including exploration (1913) of the River of Doubt (now called the Roosevelt River or Rio Teodoro) in the Amazon jungle—but also for writing a great number of books. They deal with history, hunting, wildlife, and politics. Among them are The Naval War of 1812 (1882), biographies of Thomas H. Benton (1887) and Gouverneur Morris (1888), The Winning of the West (4 vol., 1889–96), African Game Trails (1910), The New Nationalism (1910), Progressive Principles (1913), Through the Brazilian Wilderness (1914), and his important autobiography (1913).

His The Naval War of 1812 (1882) was used in the US and UK to teach at War Colleges and the Naval Academy for an extended period and is still in print.

I think Theodore is fairly unique. There may be no one like him today and few like him ever.

[Bearflag70]

Good points, though I meant more in terms of policy.

[What Exit?]

Good points, though I meant more in terms of policy.
On Policy, Arnold is a fair choice. Arnold seems fairly Green and a smart hawk as opposed to a Neo-Con. He has surprised me with his ability to be diplomatic with the California legislature. I don't know enough about his national policy thoughts, but if he strongly believes in a strong Navy, it would be a big help. :D