Who could build Flying Boats nowadays?

[Martini Enfield]

Let's say I've just won Super Ultra Lotto, and, after shrewdly investing some of the winnings, have decided like to start an airline operating Flying Boats just like they had back in the 1930s and 1940s.

Who could I contract to build them? I doubt I could just ring up Boeing or Lockheed-Martin or British Aerospace and say "I have the schematics for a Sunderland Flying Boat, can you help me modernise it a bit and then build three or four of them for me?"

I should stress that I'm not concerned about the economic viability of a Flying Boat airline (They're Flying Boats, dammit! They're too cool not to make bucketloads of cash), but more of working out who would have the manufacturing capabilities to manufacturer a "modern" version of a "Classic" Flying Boat like a Sunderland or a Pan Am Clipper.

(And yes, I would dress like Biggles when flying them... why do you ask? :D)

[Tapioca Dextrin]

There is still one company that makes boat planes. Bombadier (http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospace/products/amphibious-aircraft/about-us?docID=0901260d80018aa7). Of course, it might be easier to outsource everything to China (http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/specialaircraft/sh5.asp).

[tirial]

Do you want a flying boat in particular, or are you after a seaplane? There are a few companies that still make seaplanes, but they tend to be amphibious and have floats, rather than being true flying boats. Most are built for firefighting.

(Seriously if you offered enough money, the companies you mentioned would probably dust off their plans and put the older models into production. They just need to make enough of a profit for it to be worthwhile.)

If you are after a new design, there are the smaller specialised aerospace companies, who may be able to do a custom build (assume price isn't an object) and produce a line for you. Alternatively, checking for expired patents and designs you might be able to get a WWII designed seaplane built from that design with upgrades to the modern standards.

or ask Canadair (now Bombadier Aerospace) or some of the Russian companies that build them - e.g. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20061025/55121590.html

[Martini Enfield]

Do you want a flying boat in particular, or are you after a seaplane?

A Flying Boat, not a seaplane. Looks like Bombardier or Antonov would be the people to talk to at the moment...

[Quartz]

There is still one company that makes boat planes. Bombadier (http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospace/products/amphibious-aircraft/about-us?docID=0901260d80018aa7).

You know, that looks suspiciously like a PBY Catalina (http://www.catalina.org.uk/). :D :D

[slaphead]

A Flying Boat, not a seaplane. Looks like Bombardier or Antonov would be the people to talk to at the moment...
I would have thought Beriev (http://www.beriev.com/eng/core_e.html) would be the go-to people. As per tirials link, they make the biggest flying boats currently available. They are also looking for someone to bankroll this project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-2500) and would probably welcome your financial assistance....

Wiki also lists some modern flying boats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_boat#Modern_versions) from Japan and China

[tomndebb]

You know, that looks suspiciously like a PBY Catalina (http://www.catalina.org.uk/). :D :DSudspiciously? Nah. Design constraints tend to make most of them look similar: wings above the fuselage to avoid having them ripped off on rough water; engines at or above the wings to avoid problems with water in the air intakes or props chopping into the water; side entry hatches just above water level to allow transit from boats tied alongside, the stepped hull.

In fact, I would say that the Catalina looks (relatively speaking) much different than a Bombardier 415. For one thing, the Catalina wings were actually mounted on a pylon above the fuselage whereas the Bombardier 415, like its CL-215 predecessor, places the wing in a bulge extending across the top of the fuselage.

[blondebear]

What was it really like to fly on the China Clippers? The posters all show tropical islands with passengers in crisp, white clothes being greeted by hula dancers. I can't imagine that the planes were all that comfortable.

[matt]

What was it really like to fly on the China Clippers? The posters all show tropical islands with passengers in crisp, white clothes being greeted by hula dancers. I can't imagine that the planes were all that comfortable. China clippers I don't know about, but there's a great site with old photos from the world's first passenger airline, Aeromarine:

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/aerompas.htm

They operated using modified surplus WW1 flying boats, and they don't look that comfortable but people wore their best anyway as they tottered along the gangplanks.

[Martini Enfield]

What was it really like to fly on the China Clippers? The posters all show tropical islands with passengers in crisp, white clothes being greeted by hula dancers. I can't imagine that the planes were all that comfortable.

There is a restored Tasman Empire Airways Short Solent Flying Boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Solent) on display at the Museum of Transport & Technology in Auckland; the last time I was there I recall noting that the comfort level seemed about the same as modern Premium Economy class (and the photos on Wikipedia would seem to bear this out).

The difference was that it took around three weeks(!) get from Auckland to London via Flying Boat in those days, as opposed to 25 hours by Jetliner nowadays.

[tirial]

Out of curiosity, what size of flying boat are you talking about? If its flying 8 or 25 people at a time in the lap of luxury, you want a different builder to an economy jumbo version.

I was bored at work, and pulled lists of small custom-built aircraft companies. There are lots that create custom designs of various sizes, and work with component manufacturers on larger projects. It is actually possible to get a small to midsize custom aircraft designed and built from older plans. If you didn't object to the company having the rights to the design, and the right to sell the planes elsewhere it would be cheaper. Don't forget you'd need a maintenance agreement for the planes' expected lifespan.

So all you have to do is win the lottery... :D

[Scissorjack]

What was it really like to fly on the China Clippers? The posters all show tropical islands with passengers in crisp, white clothes being greeted by hula dancers. I can't imagine that the planes were all that comfortable.

The Solent at MOTAT looks pretty comfy: well-appointed, much roomier than an economy seat on a jet today, and it only carried about 30 odd people. The flights were pretty short hops by today's standards, which was why it took three weeks to get to London: you'd stop off every night somewhere East of Suez for chota pegs with the memsahib.

[N9IWP]

If you want something smaller these folks are looking for funding:
http://www.centaurseaplane.com/

Ever since the crash, Chaulks has stopped flying thier Grumman Mallards - they may be willing to sell. As romantic as radial engines are there are advantages to PT6As

Albatrosses show up in Trade-a-plane regularly

Brian

[Raguleader]

Do you want a flying boat in particular, or are you after a seaplane? There are a few companies that still make seaplanes, but they tend to be amphibious and have floats, rather than being true flying boats. Most are built for firefighting.

I suppose in the perfect world he might want something like the later models of the PBY Catalina, which featured landing gear to allow the plane to operate on dry land as well as water (IIRC, the landing gear was kept tucked into the sides of the plane above the water line, and then swung out and down for use. Not sure what they did with the tail wheel, if anything).

Also, if you want to combine the coolness of a flying boat with the swiftness of a jet, just get a jet powered flying boat made. Russia made some interesting ones that utilized ground effect to allow them to cruise along at low altitude super-fast, although they could only be used on calm, open waters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpGacOmSeHc&feature=related

[Martini Enfield]

The Solent at MOTAT looks pretty comfy: well-appointed, much roomier than an economy seat on a jet today, and it only carried about 30 odd people. The flights were pretty short hops by today's standards, which was why it took three weeks to get to London: you'd stop off every night somewhere East of Suez for chota pegs with the memsahib.

I've wondered how long it would take if you did the trip by Flying Boat (say, a Sunderland) in as near to non-stop as fuel/endurance would allow; ie flew Auckland-Brisbane-Singapore-Bombay-Aden-Alexandria-Gibraltar-London, stopping only long enough to refuel, resupply, perform necessary maintenance, and allow crew changes etc; I'd be willing to bet it would still take the better part of week or so, assuming no mechanical problems or anything like that.

The sort of Flying Boat I was thinking about would probably hold around 30-50 people in Premium Economy comfort (Comfy chairs, lots of space, but not quite Business Class)- it would be about The Experience as much as it was about getting yourself from Auckland or Brisbane or Hong Kong to London, Hawaii, or Cairo.

[N9IWP]

Cataline for sale (Certificated for up to 22 passengers) The price as of 2005 was $490,000

http://www.superthree.com/

The original catalina had a crew of (IIRC) 7 or 9. I know one rescued like (again IIRC) 80 sailors.

The catalina has a tricylcle gear, not a tailwheel. The nosewheel retracts.

Brian

[Johnny L.A.]

There's a Grumman Albatross (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Aircraft__Grumman-HU-16-Albatross-Restoration-Project_W0QQitemZ250289406189QQadnZAircraftQQadiZ2829QQcmdZ) on eBay right now with a Buy It Now price of US$12,000. There are options available on the seller's website (http://www.albatrossproject.com/).

You can tell without clicking, just by looking at the price, that this one will need a little work. ;)

[Martini Enfield]

There's a Grumman Albatross (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Aircraft__Grumman-HU-16-Albatross-Restoration-Project_W0QQitemZ250289406189QQadnZAircraftQQadiZ2829QQcmdZ) on eBay right now with a Buy It Now price of US$12,000. There are options available on the seller's website (http://www.albatrossproject.com/).

You can tell without clicking, just by looking at the price, that this one will need a little work. ;)

That and I'm not sure why a flying boat is in Arizona, of all places. ;)

Yes, I know it's an amphibious aircraft...

[Johnny L.A.]

That and I'm not sure why a flying boat is in Arizona, of all places. ;)

Yes, I know it's an amphibious aircraft...

Why is the London Bridge in Arizona? :p

I'm probably being wooshed, but just in case: deserts are ideal places for aircraft storage.

[GorillaMan]

What was it really like to fly on the China Clippers? The posters all show tropical islands with passengers in crisp, white clothes being greeted by hula dancers. I can't imagine that the planes were all that comfortable.
On the other hand, you weren't going to be sat inside of them for half a day without respite. Fuel requirements ensured plenty of planned stops en route, and you'd get the equivalent of the present-day first class lounge each time.

[Raguleader]

That and I'm not sure why a flying boat is in Arizona, of all places. ;)

Yes, I know it's an amphibious aircraft...

Obviously you've never lived in Sierra Vista during the rainy season.

South of Tucson or so, it only rains once a year. For about four months straight. It's awesome. An amphibious anything begins to sound like a solid idea. :D

[Gatopescado]

There are a bunch of flying boats in various stages of reconstruction at the Carson City, NV airport. They look like old US Military planes, most likely the Albatross or similar. A few years ago, at the "open house" type event, they had one open and you could get inside it and look around. I've heard they are retrofitted for rich Middle-Eastern customers with deluxe interiors and such. I've seen one flying over my place once.

I also saw one sitting on the runway, engines removed and tipped back on the tail after a snowstorm weighted the tail down.

The company might be Weaver's. Look em up. If its not them, they can probably tell you who to contact to get your super-deluxe flying boat.

[ElvisL1ves]

You can get Grumman Gooses (Geese?) retrofitted with turboprops and modern cockpits and interiors from Antilles Seaplanes (http://www.antillesseaplanes.com/) today. Are they large enough? There's a market even today, in the Pacific and Caribbean islands.

If not, if you're talking Boeing 314 or Short Sunderland size, with a new design, that's only a matter of having a large enough hangar for construction. There are custom shops who will do any of that if you have the money. There are no 314's remaining, but there's a (military) Sunderland at the RAF Museum in Hendon, London, if you get the chance.

The elegant image of the prewar ships (Pan Am, mainly) was for advertising (shocked, aren't you?). They were as noisy, drafty, and vibration-plagued as contemporary landplanes, except that they subjected the passengers to it for many more hours. Fares had to be expensive to cover their costs, forcing them to cater to the high end market, and thereby forcing the lines to advertise time and convenience as well as provide the kind of personal attention that those passengers expected.

[TheLoadedDog]

The sort of Flying Boat I was thinking about would probably hold around 30-50 people in Premium Economy comfort (Comfy chairs, lots of space, but not quite Business Class)- it would be about The Experience as much as it was about getting yourself from Auckland or Brisbane or Hong Kong to London, Hawaii, or Cairo.

Well, they used to operate out of Rose Bay on Sydney Harbour, which is very close to the city centre. I could see it almost being viable for commuter runs on Australia's eastern seaboard. Security for a small, slow plane might be a bit easier than for conventional air travel, and there are no long transfers to an airport. Even something like Newcastle - Sydney might be ok for business passengers (there is a seaplane doing similar things out of Rose Bay).

Get a water taxi to meet the plane, and Joe Businessman can be in the business precinct of Sydney ten minutes after landing.

[Martini Enfield]

Well, they used to operate out of Rose Bay on Sydney Harbour, which is very close to the city centre. I could see it almost being viable for commuter runs on Australia's eastern seaboard. Security for a small, slow plane might be a bit easier than for conventional air travel, and there are no long transfers to an airport. Even something like Newcastle - Sydney might be ok for business passengers (there is a seaplane doing similar things out of Rose Bay).

Get a water taxi to meet the plane, and Joe Businessman can be in the business precinct of Sydney ten minutes after landing.

The more I think about this, the more I think it could actually work... now, if only I could win Super Ultra Lotto to get the venture started... :D