How should Palin address her family situation Part Deux

[treis]

In general, I don't think a candidate's family situation should be of concern in an election. To me, normally "It's a private family matter, and won't affect my performance in office" suffices for any family question. However, on the face of it, Gov. Palin's decision to run for VP seems to show remarkably poor judgment. Everyone in America now knows that her daughter is knocked up, and that she's going to have a shotgun wedding. More importantly, there is the issue of her 4 month old with Down's syndrome. Is Palin going to be able to, for example, go on a two week whirl wind tour of former USSR states on a weeks notice? How is that going to impact the health of her child.

I guess the biggest question in my mind is why now for her? I don't expect her to give up the Gov. job or put her career completely on hold, but there's no reason she has to take the next step now. In even 4 years she would be in a much better position both personally and professionally. It would make so much more sense for her to delay making a run at the VP, or even the big job.

Questions for debate: Does accepting the VP slot show poor judgement on her part, and should the McCain campaign say anything to address it?

[John Mace]

Would you ask that question if she were a man, and had a wife to take care of the kids? As for her teenage daughter, well, she's getting married and will have a husband. There should be no issue for Palin.

[treis]

Would you ask that question if she were a man, and had a wife to take care of the kids?

Probably. Nice sly dig at me though.


As for her teenage daughter, well, she's getting married and will have a husband. There should be no issue for Palin.

Uh hu. I'm sure everything is peachy keen in her daughter's life.

[MaxTheVool]

As for her teenage daughter, well, she's getting married and will have a husband. There should be no issue for Palin.

Do you really believe this? A 17 year old girl who (I assume) currently lives at home is going to marry her boyfriend and have a baby, and they will in no way need support of any kind, particularly the kind of support that involves actual time and presence, from her mother?

Being VPOTUS (or, god forbid, POTUS) is something that takes enormous amounts of time. So is having a young baby with Down's syndrome. So is (in the vast majority of cases in this day and age) being the mother of a daughter living at home who has just gotten married and had a baby but is still in high school.

Is that a legitimate campaign issue? Normally, candidates' families are off limits for political discussion. Did Obama's daughter get in a fight at school today and use a naughty word, or get a bad grade last semester? Shouldn't be any of anyone's business but the Obamas'. But at a certain point an issue would so strongly affect the candidate's ability to do the job that I think it becomes something that should be openly acknowledged and discussed. Are Palin's issues over that line? Honestly, I think so, but I also acknowledge I may not be objective about it.

That said, if someone honestly asks such questions, a response of "How DARE you discuss her family! Would you be asking such questions if she were a MAN?" isn't particularly helpful or productive, except perhaps in the most cynical political sense.


(And the question shouldn't be "would you ask such a question if she were a man", which, worst case, simply exposes someone as minorly hypocritical, but "SHOULD you ask such a question if she were a man". And the answer is, yes. However, it's much more likely, even in this day and age, that if a male candidate had a similar family situation, that candidate would also have a stay-at-home-wife who was taking the bulk of the responsibility for dealing with that situation.)

[howye]

Would you ask that question if she were a man, and had a wife to take care of the kids? As for her teenage daughter, well, she's getting married and will have a husband. There should be no issue for Palin.

I would ask if it reflects negatively on her decision making skills, and the question and answer are not gender based. She had a serious medical condition that could affect her and her child's health, yet she chose to make a journey no Doctor would approve of and at the end of which was arguably medical care that was of poorer quality than she could get where she went. Do I think that is a campaign issue? Hell yes.

Her teenage daughter is not her fault, it happens all the time, and I respect anybody who is caring for a child with Down's symdrome. But I do question anybody who would place their career over their family in the same situation as hers is in. She has an infant that is going to require more attention than she can realize, and she takes on the second most time consuming job in the world?

[Shayna]

Would you ask that question if she were a man, and had a wife to take care of the kids? As a matter of fact, a LOT of people asked very much the same question of John Edwards when he revealed that his wife had inoperable cancer. Many, MANY people felt he had no business traipsing around the country running for President, let alone being the President, with such trying and time-consuming family issues to tend to.

[treis]

I'd like to avoid going down the sexism road for this thread if you all don't mind.

[Dangerosa]

I would ask if it reflects negatively on her decision making skills, and the question and answer are not gender based. She had a serious medical condition that could affect her and her child's health, yet she chose to make a journey no Doctor would approve of and at the end of which was arguably medical care that was of poorer quality than she could get where she went. Do I think that is a campaign issue? Hell yes.

Her teenage daughter is not her fault, it happens all the time, and I respect anybody who is caring for a child with Down's symdrome. But I do question anybody who would place their career over their family in the same situation as hers is in. She has an infant that is going to require more attention than she can realize, and she takes on the second most time consuming job in the world?


Moreover, who would choose to expose their family in such way during this time. Obama is taking the high road, will the National Enquirer do the same? As I said before, this is a move of either someone incredibly naive, or a stone cold bitch to expose her daughter in this fashion.

[Harborwolf]

Politically and personally, the best thing to do is to leave it alone. If she keeps bringing it up, she's just feeding the machine. People will feel justified in talking about it because she is talking about it. If she leaves it alone and people keep talking, she can counter attack anyone who brings it up, keeping the high road. If she leaves it alone and nobody talks about it, she's got her privacy back.

The absolute worst thing she can do is attempt to make political hay out of it. It will cost her family privacy in what is guaranteed to be a bit of a rough patch, and it opens her up to charges of using her family for political gain. Not exactly strong family values.

I understand why she released it. Would've come out anyways. Now she just has to leave it alone.

[E-Sabbath]

John, yes. Yes it would. Being in a family with a severely handicapped child requires a lot of painful and stressful effort from both parents.

A new baby is one thing. A new baby with special needs is another. Especially that sort.

[Leaper]

As I mentioned in the "Who is Sarah Palin" thread, one blogger thinks that this might actually be an ADVANTAGE for McCain, by highlighting the Culture War, one of the only (possibly only, this blogger thinks) issues on which McCain can decisively win.

Interesting perspective, anyway.

[lavenderviolet]

Ms. Palin has a husband who intends to be a stay at home dad.
If you feel that a father is incapable of caring for his own child just as well as the mother can, sorry, but you *are* being sexist.
Not all women want to be stay at home mommies.
Not all working mothers are bad moms.

I think it is a sign of just how backwards society still is that people are asking these questions of a female candidate when they don't even think of them about male candidates.
Why is Obama so insistent on running for president now, when he hasn't even served out one Senate term?
Is it really fair to his little girls to make them grow up under the glaring scrutiny of the media? Maybe to be a good daddy he should take some time off from his own ego and ambitions to pay more attention to them.

[gravitycrash]

I think I love you Lavenderviolet. The double standard here is such bullshit. Oh, I forgot, the Democrats are the party of enlightenment, my mistake.

[treis]

Like I said, I want to avoid the sexism debate here. Feel free to picture Gov. Palin with a penis, and then answer the questions I posed in the OP.

[bubba jr]

John, yes. Yes it would. Being in a family with a severely handicapped child requires a lot of painful and stressful effort from both parents.

So then why did George Herbert Walker Bush run as VP back in 1980. He obviously had a severely mentally handicapped child that he should have been taking care of, unfortunately the severely mentally handicapped child became our 43rd president. This deserves a :rolleyes:, and then a "I'm serious".

As for Sarah Palin. I think if she was a man, it would be a non-issue, he/she would have a wife to take care of that. She has a husband, he can take care of that, but OOOOH he had a DUI 20 years ago, who hasn't, well, 11 years ago, but whos counting.

As for the job being time consuming, not really, she gets to sit around with her thumb firmly lodged in her ass or Bill Clintons, her choice and wait for the president to die, that is her primary job, and to cruise on over to capital hill when there is a tie.

As for her personal decision to accept the nominee, its the opportunity of a lifetime. How many of you people here have been asked to run as VP???? If your family supported you, why the hell wouldn't you???

I think it was a brilliant move by McCain. Now all the attention is on piddly stuff. Not all of McCains crappy policies, and of course that is what the Democrats will latch onto, since they are masters of snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.

And the Republicans will go on ignoring Biden(and there is lot to bash him on, and they seem to have stayed quiet), and bash Obama on policy, stuff that actually matters. Then the party of funding and encouraging unwed and unwanted babies will bash Palin for having a pregnant daughter, they will look like idiots once again, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, once again.

[DiosaBellissima]

Ms. Palin has a husband who intends to be a stay at home dad.
If you feel that a father is incapable of caring for his own child just as well as the mother can, sorry, but you *are* being sexist.
Not all women want to be stay at home mommies.
Not all working mothers are bad moms.


You're right about all of this, of course. But, if I'm remembering correctly, Mr. Palin works a job where he works a week on and a week off. Is he planning to quit his job to be a full time, stay at home dad for his special needs son? Or will their pregnant teenage daughter be raising this child, as well as her own?

We can say what we want about working mothers and what they are capable of, but realistically, VP is a little more than a regular full time job. Even then, though, this isn't a regular parent child relationship anyway- this is an extraordinary circumstance. Did I think the same thing about Edwards when his wife was once again diagnosed with cancer? Of course. He has two young children and his wife is dying, for cryin' out loud.

[Mosier]

Of the ten states who rank highest in teen pregnancy rate, nine (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/09/12/USTPstats.pdf) of them voted Republican in 2004, including all of the top six.

This leads me to believe that people who vote Republican aren't necessarily the type of people who would hold a teen pregnancy against someone.

Edit: According to this site, once you factor out abortion (http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingandsex/a/TeenPregStates.htm), all 10 of the states representing the highest rates of live births by teens went Republican in 2004.

[BigBertha]

So then why did George Herbert Walker Bush run as VP back in 1980. He obviously had a severely mentally handicapped child that he should have been taking care of, unfortunately the severely mentally handicapped child became our 43rd president. This deserves a :rolleyes:, and then a "I'm serious".

.I found this quite humorous and didn't see it coming.

I think this was a big mistake by McCain.
There are many women out there in politics who have much more experience than Palin who would've bene better.

[E-Sabbath]

Yeah, probably Bristol's going to wind up taking care of both kids. It's what she's doing now anyhow. Ain't that grand?

[burundi]

Here's what I would love to see happen. Palin would say something like, "I recognize that my daughter has resources that most teen mothers don't have. My special needs son will have access to all of the health care and services that he needs--many other special needs children in our country aren't so lucky. In order to support other young families and promote a culture of life, I will fight for affordable health and prenatal care, increased access to social services, and a better economy for all American families."

And then monkeys would fly out of my butt.

[John Mace]

As a matter of fact, a LOT of people asked very much the same question of John Edwards when he revealed that his wife had inoperable cancer. Many, MANY people felt he had no business traipsing around the country running for President, let alone being the President, with such trying and time-consuming family issues to tend to.
Yeah, and they were soundly shouted down by the many more posters here who said it was a personal matter and his/her decision to make.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Ms. Palin has a husband who intends to be a stay at home dad.
If you feel that a father is incapable of caring for his own child just as well as the mother can, sorry, but you *are* being sexist. Apparently, according to someone posting on the Mudflats website that was linked to over the weekend, he claimed he would do so when she became governor, but then balked when the actuality of the circumstances hit him. They thus had to "farm out" the care of the children to friends and family. I suppose that they could try this again, but the upshot seems to have been that their mono infected daughter nevertheless got pregnant.

They may need to find another solution.

[John Mace]

Do you really believe this? A 17 year old girl who (I assume) currently lives at home is going to marry her boyfriend and have a baby, and they will in no way need support of any kind, particularly the kind of support that involves actual time and presence, from her mother?
There are 4 grandparents involved here, remember. But, sure, it'll take some of her time. BFD. Are we to disqualify women from holding office because their children become parents?

Being VPOTUS (or, god forbid, POTUS) is something that takes enormous amounts of time. So is having a young baby with Down's syndrome. So is (in the vast majority of cases in this day and age) being the mother of a daughter living at home who has just gotten married and had a baby but is still in high school.

Is that a legitimate campaign issue? Normally, candidates' families are off limits for political discussion. Did Obama's daughter get in a fight at school today and use a naughty word, or get a bad grade last semester? Shouldn't be any of anyone's business but the Obamas'. But at a certain point an issue would so strongly affect the candidate's ability to do the job that I think it becomes something that should be openly acknowledged and discussed. Are Palin's issues over that line? Honestly, I think so, but I also acknowledge I may not be objective about it.

That said, if someone honestly asks such questions, a response of "How DARE you discuss her family! Would you be asking such questions if she were a MAN?" isn't particularly helpful or productive, except perhaps in the most cynical political sense.


(And the question shouldn't be "would you ask such a question if she were a man", which, worst case, simply exposes someone as minorly hypocritical, but "SHOULD you ask such a question if she were a man". And the answer is, yes. However, it's much more likely, even in this day and age, that if a male candidate had a similar family situation, that candidate would also have a stay-at-home-wife who was taking the bulk of the responsibility for dealing with that situation.)
I think we pay our VPs well enough that they can hire a nanny, as needed.

[Shodan]

"We're sorry, honey, but we decided not to hire you for that executive position.

We've found in the past that you girls get too distracted by your family situation and can't give the kind of 110% commitment that a tough job like this requires. Besides, you might run off and get pregnant again, and then we would have to train someone else.

We are hiring for a secretary/Girl Friday position - are you interested?"

Regards,
Shodan

[Sarahfeena]

"We're sorry, honey, but we decided not to hire you for that executive position.

We've found in the past that you girls get too distracted by your family situation and can't give the kind of 110% commitment that a tough job like this requires. Besides, you might run off and get pregnant again, and then we would have to train someone else.

We are hiring for a secretary/Girl Friday position - are you interested?"

Regards,
Shodan Well, seriously, Shodan...do you really think a woman can handle a career AND being a wife and mother? She really should just go back home where she belongs.

[Shodan]

You seem a little irritable.

That time of the month?




:D

Regards,
Shodan

[Sarahfeena]

You seem a little irritable.

That time of the month?




:D

Regards,
Shodan Well, you know, we women are very emotional. ;)

[treis]

Go fucking start your own fucking thread if you want to fucking talk about fucking sexism. Holy fucking shit. How many god damn times does the OP have to say "don't hijack my thread" so you fuckers won't hijack it?

[Sarahfeena]

Yeah, and they were soundly shouted down by the many more posters here who said it was a personal matter and his/her decision to make. Kidding aside, John Mace is right. Anyone who defended Edwards' decision to go ahead and run (or for that matter, defended the selection of him for VP despite his lack of experience), really don't have a leg to stand on as far as criticizing her in these areas.

[Sarahfeena]

Go fucking start your own fucking thread if you want to fucking talk about fucking sexism. Holy fucking shit. How many god damn times does the OP have to say "don't hijack my thread" so you fuckers won't hijack it? It's not a hijack if it's relevant to the subject at hand.

[treis]

It's not a hijack if it's relevant to the subject at hand.

It's not relevant in the least bit. All it does is distract from the questions I asked in the OP. Allow me to quote myself:

Does accepting the VP slot show poor judgement on her part, and should the McCain campaign say anything to address it?

Unless your answers are "No", and "accuse people of sexism for bringing it up", then the sex of Gov. Palin is irrelevant to my questions.

[dropzone]

Anyone who defended Edwards' decision to go ahead and run (or for that matter, defended the selection of him for VP despite his lack of experience), really don't have a leg to stand on as far as criticizing her in these areas.Whew! Glad I thought it was tacky, him running with a sick wife. Also glad I supported Al Gore's 1991 decision to not run for president in '92 because his sone was recovering from a terrible accident. And I supported his run for Veep a year later because his kid was doing better. I think my position on the moral high ground is secure. ;)

[MaxTheVool]

There are 4 grandparents involved here, remember. But, sure, it'll take some of her time. BFD. Are we to disqualify women from holding office because their children become parents?


What a disingenuous response. Who said anything about "disqualifying"? Did anyone say "well, I'd vote for Sarah Palin except that her daughter is preggers?" or "Sarah Palin is clearly unqualified for the job because she has a pregnant daughter?".

And of course, most times when someone's children become parents the children aren't 17.


The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think her 5 month old baby and her pregnant daughter are, prima facie, irrelevant. They are certainly not major issues, but I don't think they should just automatically be off the table and unworthy of discussion. (The baby being more important in my mind than the teenage daughter, although the teenage daughter is of course more salacious as far as media coverage is concerned.)

[Sarahfeena]

Whew! Glad I thought it was tacky, him running with a sick wife. Also glad I supported Al Gore's 1991 decision to not run for president in '92 because his sone was recovering from a terrible accident. And I supported his run for Veep a year later because his kid was doing better. I think my position on the moral high ground is secure. ;)Well, you know, I'm not accusing anyone in particular! I'm just saying that there ought to be some consistency. And not just when the subject is a woman vs. a man, but also when it's a Democrat vs a Republican. It shouldn't be an issue only when it's not your candidate.

Personally, I think it's not my business how she handles her family issues, and I felt the same way about Edwards...I had ni dount that he had his wife's blessing, and that's good enough for me.

[Punoqllads]

Questions for debate: Does accepting the VP slot show poor judgement on her part, No.and should the McCain campaign say anything to address it?Yes, but they have to be very careful about what comments they call sexist. If they call every criticism of her sexist, then the American public will reject their defensiveness and believe that the McCain campaign is operating in CYA mode. They need to narrowly reject those criticisms that implicitly accept that women are some kind of mystical irreplaceable nurturing spirits.

[rocking chair]

cindy mccain is holding the baby now. perhaps she will be the nanny.

oooop! dad is finally holding the baby! and mum is getting ready to speak.

[Rucksinator]

....If you feel that a father is incapable of caring for his own child just as well as the mother can, sorry, but you *are* being sexist.
.......

Would it be sexist of me to point out that the father probably can't produce milk out of his tits? [Just saying]

[Hilarity N. Suze]

Would it be sexist of me to point out that the father probably can't produce milk out of his tits? [Just saying]

Probably the mother can't either, but they have these newfangled devices called "bottles" and "formula" that supposedly work pretty well.

[John Mace]

What a disingenuous response. Who said anything about "disqualifying"? Did anyone say "well, I'd vote for Sarah Palin except that her daughter is preggers?" or "Sarah Palin is clearly unqualified for the job because she has a pregnant daughter?".

And of course, most times when someone's children become parents the children aren't 17.

The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think her 5 month old baby and her pregnant daughter are, prima facie, irrelevant. They are certainly not major issues, but I don't think they should just automatically be off the table and unworthy of discussion. (The baby being more important in my mind than the teenage daughter, although the teenage daughter is of course more salacious as far as media coverage is concerned.)
OK, discuss it. Tell us the pros and cons, and then tell us how the scales tip. Personally, I couldn't care less whether she has a baby or whether her teenage daughter is pregnant. She'll be a highly paid executive who can hire help, if needed, to take care of her children. She also has a husband to help care for their kids, and the unborn child has 3 other grandparents besides SP to help out. I see no reason that the maternal grandmother needs to be especially involved.

[dropzone]

She also has a husband to help care for their kids....Yeee-aaah. That's worked out REAL well so far. He took a leave of absence from BP for a while but went back to work last summer so he could keep his seniority. (http://www.alaska.com/adn/front/story/9245100p-9159409c.html) He's a commercial fisherman and a rig operator on the North Slope. He's not at home much.

[Sarahfeena]

Here's the thing...I really don't get why her "family situation" is such a big deal. She has one son about to go into the army. She has a daughter about to get married. Sure, they are young, but they have their own lives. Should a parent with two kids their age who are away at college worry about putting their career on hold in case they are needed?

The remaining three kids are not that much different from the families of a lot of other Presidents and VPs. Just taking Presidents alone...the Bushes, the Clintons, and the Carters all had children who were living at home when they were elected. Kennedy had two very young children, plus one that was born and died during his time in the White House.

The reason I bring up sexism is this: what exactly makes her "situation" any different from anyone's? Everyone has a family, and things can go wrong. I don't see why there's anything that needs to be addressed by anyone other than the Palins themselves.

[Brunhilda]

My response to folks who say that 17 is a little young to lose control of your kid, in regards to Palin's family situation, is this: "It doesn't matter how strict you are as a parent, or how you raised your kid. Teens often make mistakes- even the responsible ones. All it takes is 15 minutes, a broom closet, and the right time of the month." I am a little surprised that many of these folks criticizing her have teens themselves, and aren't thinking "there but for the grace of God go I."

[E-Sabbath]

Sarahfeena, there are three points as to why her family situation is a concern.

A: She advocates abstinence only sex education and chastity till marriage. Her underage unmarried daughter is pregnant. There is some slight disconnect there, in that, if it doesn't work for even her family, why does she think it will work for others?

This is not a question about Bristol, it is a question about why she feels that imposing a moral standard her own family can't keep on other people is a good thing. One should look to ones own house first.

B: She is a parent of a special needs child. A severely handicapped one. Downs is not a easy task to deal with. It requires input and care from both parents. (My mother was a special ed teacher for many years, I served as a substitute TA repeatedly.)

C: She has a husband who is often away from the family for extended periods of time. Being Veep is going to be a strain on the family... and being president will be worse. For one, her husband's job _requires_ him to be in Alaska, while hers requires Washington DC.

The odds she will be president are, at a minimum, 1/3 that John McCain will not make his 80th birthday. He will have excellent medical care _and_ has stopped smoking, and his mother is 92 and hale, but he had a two pack habit for many years, he had re-occurring malignant melanoma (highly lethal skin cancer), his father died at 71, his grandfather died at 61, and the male side is what he has to look to for longevity. He's also still not in the best shape, thanks to torture, (My dad, a fighter pilot, was more or less fine for many years, until four years ago, when he had to have spinal surgery thanks to what he describes as 'something to do with being in an ejection seat too many times', these things can linger.)

The presidency ages a man. Look at John Kerry versus GWB, look at GWB before and after. Hell. Look at Clinton after, and Clinton _now_. Bill looks better now than he did in his final days.

If McCain wins, Sarah Palin will be president before the first term ends, I think. What will that do to her family, given her husband's job, and her special needs child?

[Sarahfeena]

Sarahfeena, there are three points as to why her family situation is a concern.

A: She advocates abstinence only sex education and chastity till marriage. Her underage unmarried daughter is pregnant. There is some slight disconnect there, in that, if it doesn't work for even her family, why does she think it will work for others? No one will ever claim that any kind of sex ed will work in every case. If a person who advocates birth control education for teenagers had a teenager who became pregnant, would that be a disconnect? Or are you saying that teens who are taught about birth control never get pregnant?

This is not a question about Bristol, it is a question about why she feels that imposing a moral standard her own family can't keep on other people is a good thing. One should look to ones own house first. There's nothing wrong with imposing moral standards, or failing to live up to them. Happens to the best of us.

B: She is a parent of a special needs child. A severely handicapped one. Downs is not a easy task to deal with. It requires input and care from both parents. (My mother was a special ed teacher for many years, I served as a substitute TA repeatedly.) I see no evidence so far that the child will not get what he needs. The VP does live in a house with their familiy, after all. And I'm sure he will get the best medical care and therapy. If the input and care is given by another relative or trusted, experienced caregiver, how will that be harmful?

C: She has a husband who is often away from the family for extended periods of time. Being Veep is going to be a strain on the family... and being president will be worse. For one, her husband's job _requires_ him to be in Alaska, while hers requires Washington DC. We don't know yet whether or not he is planning to stay at his job, but I can tell you first hand that it IS possible to have a successful marriage and family life in a situation where the spouses cannot always be together. It's not easy, but it can be done. Probably it's a lot easier with a lot of money and perks at your disposal, too, which my husband and I don't have.

The odds she will be president are, at a minimum, 1/3 that John McCain will not make his 80th birthday. He will have excellent medical care _and_ has stopped smoking, and his mother is 92 and hale, but he had a two pack habit for many years, he had re-occurring malignant melanoma (highly lethal skin cancer), his father died at 71, his grandfather died at 61, and the male side is what he has to look to for longevity. He's also still not in the best shape, thanks to torture, (My dad, a fighter pilot, was more or less fine for many years, until four years ago, when he had to have spinal surgery thanks to what he describes as 'something to do with being in an ejection seat too many times', these things can linger.)

The presidency ages a man. Look at John Kerry versus GWB, look at GWB before and after. Hell. Look at Clinton after, and Clinton _now_. Bill looks better now than he did in his final days.

If McCain wins, Sarah Palin will be president before the first term ends, I think. What will that do to her family, given her husband's job, and her special needs child? Even if it is true that he won't survive his Presidency, which I have my doubts about, lets's say she's President for 2 years. I'm sure the family will be able to weather that storm. But even besides that, the point is that it's her concern. I don't see any pressing need for the public to get an explanation for how she is going to handle all of it.

[Brunhilda]

I don't believe we would be questioning her taking the job if she were a guy, in regards to the infant with Down syndrome. We would just say "poor dude" and let him continue. We may even say- good thing he's got a high powered career, so that he can afford additional medical care, visits to specialists and respite care. Why is this so different for a woman? Is it just because we are the ones who are expected to be the nurturers 100% of the time?

[Bricker]

I would ask if it reflects negatively on her decision making skills, and the question and answer are not gender based. She had a serious medical condition that could affect her and her child's health, yet she chose to make a journey no Doctor would approve of and at the end of which was arguably medical care that was of poorer quality than she could get where she went.

Her doctor did approve it.

[Punoqllads]

Her doctor did approve it.

Well, yes and no.

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

"I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.

So the Palins flew on Alaska Airlines from Dallas to Anchorage, stopping in Seattle and checking with the doctor along the way.

So someone could use weasel words to truthfully say that the did not get a doctor's approval for her flight from Texas, but it's pretty clear the doctor would have approved it, and the doctor did approve the flight from Seattle to Alaska.

[lavenderviolet]

You're right about all of this, of course. But, if I'm remembering correctly, Mr. Palin works a job where he works a week on and a week off. Is he planning to quit his job to be a full time, stay at home dad for his special needs son?

Apparently so. Here's what she said in their People Magazine interview (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685,00.html):


As a new mom, how are you going to juggle all this?
SARAH: I am thankful to be married to a man who loves being a dad as much as I love being a mom, so he is my strength. And practically speaking, we have a great network of help with lots of grandparents and aunties and uncles all around us. We have a lot of help.

So will your husband be on leave now indefinitely to be Mr. Mom?
SARAH: I would say so, yes.


The same interview refers to her having a breast pump, so I don't think the fact that the dude can't produce "milk out of his tits" is a factor either. ;)

Yay for fathers who actually like being dads.

[Sarahfeena]

Apparently so. Here's what she said in their People Magazine interview (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20222685,00.html):



The same interview refers to her having a breast pump, so I don't think the fact that the dude can't produce "milk out of his tits" is a factor either. ;)

Yay for fathers who actually like being dads. Yes, good for him. I think they both have to realize that it's probably pretty close to a necessity for him to give up working for a while.

Regarding the breast pump...I have heard that a lot of Downs babies have trouble nursing, so they have to be bottle fed, anyway. Good for her for taking the trouble to pump! Hope she can keep it up for a while.

[WhyNot]

Yay for fathers who actually like being dads.
Absolutely! OTOH, he's not just the stay-at-home dad of four kids (and one on the way, perhaps), but of two kids, one pregnant teen and one special needs infant. That, to me, puts this far enough out of the realm of normal family needs that I think the point is still valid. Lots of special needs families experience marriage ending stress with one full time parent and one 40 hour work week parent.

I'm a stay at home mom of two - one a teen, one a preschooler, and I can barely hold the place together some weeks. I can't imagine more than doubling my work load and having my partner home even less than he is currently. I just couldn't do it and be a good stay at home parent.

Maybe Mr. Palin's a better parent than I, though. It is, of course, he and Mrs. Palin's decision at the end of the day - just not the one I would make.

[Brunhilda]

I think that they'll be able to get enough good qualified competent help, that it will be ok. I don't think the kids will be any more of a distraction for Palin than they were for JFK.

[doreen]

I don't believe we would be questioning her taking the job if she were a guy, in regards to the infant with Down syndrome. We would just say "poor dude" and let him continue. We may even say- good thing he's got a high powered career, so that he can afford additional medical care, visits to specialists and respite care. Why is this so different for a woman? Is it just because we are the ones who are expected to be the nurturers 100% of the time?


I certainly would be questioning a man in this situation. I know that for a fact, because I used to supervise someone in a situation different only in degree. His wife was a SAHM, and they had three or four children , two of whom were autistic. He was ineffective at work, in large part because he was routinely late and frequently absent or had to leave early due to emergencies. He could have returned to his prior position, or requested an assignment with more flexibility, or a transfer to an assignment that was less than a two hour one-way commute. Any of those options would have improved his performance and made his life easier. He rejected them all. Apparently, remaining in this position was more important to him than anything else- certainly more important than having a job where he could perform well and also give his wife the assistance she clearly needed. Either that, or he believed he was performing just fine at work, and his wife didn't need any help. Whichever it was, the situation caused me and his peers to question his judgment. And that's my problem with Palin - not that I think she'll be distracted from the job , but her judgment in accepting the nomination.

Accepting the nomination was her decision to make - there's no doubt about that. But voters are entitled to be concerned with her judgment, and I think this was a bad decision. There is so much going on in her family right now that there is just no way that she can accurately predict what any of her children will need a year from now. The infant with Down's syndrome or the pregnant teenager would be enough for the other kids to adjust to. They've got both. Now they have a mother on the campaign trail , too. She either doesn't believe that it's a bad idea to add additional sources of stress , or she wants to run badly enough to do it anyway. And it wouldn't be any different if their father were running.

[Brunhilda]

I certainly would be questioning a man in this situation. I know that for a fact, because I used to supervise someone in a situation different only in degree. His wife was a SAHM, and they had three or four children , two of whom were autistic. He was ineffective at work, in large part because he was routinely late and frequently absent or had to leave early due to emergencies. He could have returned to his prior position, or requested an assignment with more flexibility, or a transfer to an assignment that was less than a two hour one-way commute. Any of those options would have improved his performance and made his life easier. He rejected them all. Apparently, remaining in this position was more important to him than anything else- certainly more important than having a job where he could perform well and also give his wife the assistance she clearly needed. Either that, or he believed he was performing just fine at work, and his wife didn't need any help. Whichever it was, the situation caused me and his peers to question his judgment. And that's my problem with Palin - not that I think she'll be distracted from the job , but her judgment in accepting the nomination.

Accepting the nomination was her decision to make - there's no doubt about that. But voters are entitled to be concerned with her judgment, and I think this was a bad decision. There is so much going on in her family right now that there is just no way that she can accurately predict what any of her children will need a year from now. The infant with Down's syndrome or the pregnant teenager would be enough for the other kids to adjust to. They've got both. Now they have a mother on the campaign trail , too. She either doesn't believe that it's a bad idea to add additional sources of stress , or she wants to run badly enough to do it anyway. And it wouldn't be any different if their father were running.

Fair enough. I just wanted to put that out there. It seems like guys get a pass on doing things despite a situation at home. Ignorance fought.