The Most Worthless Home Repair Folks Ever

[Una Persson]

I'm going to post a couple of tales. Feel free to add your own.

~

Exhibit 1 is a male, about age 40, very heavyset and mustachioed, looking pretty much like a "contractor" ought to look. For the purpose of this story, I will call him "Dave."

We observe him as he enters the house and is told that I wish to have a flight of stairs built to connect the second finished story with the third unfinished story. At hearing this Dave wrinkles his brow and starts to look concerned, as if I've just asked him to compute up a few Eigenvectors, or perhaps whip up a quick 5-course Cordon Bleu-quality meal for lunch. Dave says that in all his 20 years of working as a carpenter, he has never, ever even contemplated building a flight of stairs to connect two stories of a house.

"But", I say, "your advertisement says you specialize in stairs?"

"Yes...mostly railings and trim."

"O...K, when I spoke with you on the phone, and told you that in fact I needed a flight of stairs built, that wasn't a warning to you? That somehow a flight of stairs did not consist of just a railing hanging Escher-like in space with two pieces of trim alongside, but actual stairs that people can stand upon?"

"Well...let me see what we have here. Do you have a tape measure I can borrow?"

Now I know what you're thinking - a carpenter without a tape measure. That that was the point at which I should have taken my Glock out of my purse and escorted him to the door. And upon reflection that would have yielded a better result in the end, true. However, at this point I figured that I had already missed work, and he was there, so I'd give him a chance. I handed him a tape measure, and he looked at it as if I'd handed him a Rubik's Cube. Then he went about leaning and staring at the space I wanted the stairs in, the tape measure totally forgotten.

"Um...is there any structure behind this wall?"

"You mean, like...the wall?"

"Yeah. Is there anything I should know about behind this?"

"Well gosh, I don't know, I left my wall-penetrating radar at work, I thought you would, you know, go up in the attic and take a look?"

"Um...no, I don't want to do that."

"Why not?"

"Because it's hard."

"I...see." At this point I start to notice that Dave is probably a serious trencherman, as he appears to wear about a 55-inch belt. Thinking to the small access hole into the attic at the current time, I quickly foresaw that the solution to Dave + Attic Hole = Paramedics.

"Well, there is a furnace duct not too far away, and some plumbing about here, and a giant piece of composite wood about 2 feet high by 4 inches thick that could be structural unless the builders were just bored and wanted to see how high they could stack 2 by 4's, but you'll be able to clear that, right?"

"Hmmm."

Dave then starts to thump on the wall, around in circles. This goes on for a minute and accomplishes nothing whatsoever. He hands me back the still-virgin tape measure, and says "Um, about $1000."

"That's it? About $1000?"

"Yup."

"How many steps will there be?"

"Don't know."

"Um...O...K, how will the steps be put together?"

"You know, like normal."

"Well, I want them glued, screwed, counter-bored, and filled with plugs, and sanded to be finished."

"You want what?"

I repeated.

"Why?"

"Oh, I don't know, with so many things going strange in this topsy-turvey world we live in, I decided I wanted stairs that were done right."

"Oh they'll be done right."

"Will they be done like I want?"

"Why do you want that?"

"SO THE STAIRS WILL BE SOLID AND NOT SQUEAK."

"Oh don't worry, they won't."

"Why, because you're going to glue and screw them?"

"I don't know. I don't usually do that."

"Why not?"

"Well it costs extra."

"Fine, tell me how much."

"I don't know...you don't want to do that, really."

"WHY NOT?"

"It'll be fine, trust me. I know what I'm doing. I've been in the business."

"But you said you'd never built stairs like this before."

"Well, they're stairs, you know. Not that hard. Standard stuff."

"Right...tell me about the stringers and risers?"

"Risers?"

"Yes, most stairs have them - see, like these right here (pointing to the flight nearby from the 1st story)."

"Oh, I wasn't going to use any."

"W-hy not? Aren't they required by code?" (they are, FTR)

"You don't need them. Besides", he says, wiping his brow (it's 75F in my house and the man is already sweating like a proverbial pig), "when we work on finishing the upper floor we'll trash the stairs."

"I'm sorry, I must have had a mild stroke. Why would you trash the stairs you just built?"

"Because they always get trashed when you work on things."

"I...see. And the stairs leading up to this story, I can expect them to be 'trashed' as well?"

"No, we'll protect those."

"Then why for heaven's sake won't you protect the new stairs you'll build?"

"Because they'll be temporary."

"WHY?"

"Because they'll just get trashed. Don't worry, the second time we do it, it'll be for good."

I quickly see that I've stumbled into a game of "who's on first", and drop it there, as if he can't figure it out by now, he never will. And at this point I've pretty much decided he's a loss and so it really doesn't matter what he says. However, I tempt fate by asking another question, one which I know the answer to already:

"And your people, you have insurance coverage? Worker's comp?"

"Oh yeah, got all that."

"And you'll show me the certificate of insurance?"

"Well, my insurance company says I can't. It's pro-prie-tary."

"What? An insurer who won't admit to insuring someone? Isn't that sort of, well, illegal?"

"Not so far."

At this point I usher Dave out of the house, with him swearing on a stack of New Testaments that he will be sending me a formal quote "tomorrow." (FTR, it took 4 weeks) I then our a large glass of pinot noir, collapse into a chair, and think about tweaking fate by calling the next person on my list of potential contractors.

[Duke]

In Soviet home repair, Dave says "I can't do that, you."

[Velma]

Well if I can include the guy who owned our home before us, I can post for days. The worst example of this guy is probably the roof. He decided to re-shingle it himself. He bought halfway decent shingles but didn't research how to lay them. Apparently someone told him he didn't need to lay down weatherstripping or starter strip, he could just turn the first layer of shingles around. He thought that meant with the wrong side facing up so that the side supposed to be touching the roof is now facing up. So that is what he did. You could look down and see exposed roof at the edge. We had snow and ice coming down into the soffits and freezing in there, water damage under the soffits and even melting ice coming down inside the windows in the winter. The gutters and downspouts, soffits, all had to be redone too because they just weren't done right (not enough downspouts, soffits not vented properly, etc. He had laid insulation over the soffit vents.)

So we had to scrape off nearly new shingles so we could start completely over. What a waste.

Another day, I can tell you about his tiling work.

[photopat]

Wow. That's...I can only say "Dave's not here, man."

You know, I think you'd be justified in releasing the hounds if Dave ever comes within 2 miles of your home again. His presence would likely cause the construction to spontaneously decompose.

After that I can't wait for exhibit number 2.

[Lynn Bodoni]

that was the point at which I should have taken my Glock out of my purse and escorted him to the door. And upon reflection that would have yielded a better result in the end, true. Yep. Is there some sort of contracting overseer in your city? I do feel that you should report "Dave" to some authority. The guy is clearly dangerous, and especially so to potential customers who don't know as much about stairs and their construction as you do.

[Una Persson]

Yep. Is there some sort of contracting overseer in your city? I do feel that you should report "Dave" to some authority. The guy is clearly dangerous, and especially so to potential customers who don't know as much about stairs and their construction as you do.
My city operates on sort of a hands-off approach to contractors. As long as there are no fatalities and building permits are paid for, it's all good to them.

[joemama24_98]

We had Lloyd come over to give us a quote on impact resistant windows. He was:

* thirty minutes late (this was his first appt of the morning)

* requested when he arrived (late) that he immediately leave to get to another appt that he got mixed up on the calendar

* insisted that my wife be there (she was 10 mins away at the store). Said it was necessary as it was "company policy" that both people there for the quote process as "design choices" had to be made. I assured him that we already had several quotes and looked at various options and that I was quite aware of what we wanted. He would not start measuring until I called her home

* sloppily jotted everything down on a single scrap of paper that he had with him. Miscounted the windows in the house

* insisted that his business was BBB accredited, asked that I look it up right there on my laptop. They were accredited, as of last month. Noticed that there was another business at the same address with the same owner that had 48 complaints. He would not discuss those.

* asked me to carry out his bags

* insisted that his company was the sole distributor of the product we were looking at in the area (they are not).

The other 5 quotes we got were top-notch. I can't believe the variation in cost though...this is like buying a used car.

[Lynn Bodoni]

My city operates on sort of a hands-off approach to contractors. As long as there are no fatalities and building permits are paid for, it's all good to them. I cannot believe this. I'm not doubting you, I just can't believe that any modern city would work this way. Is there an Angie's List (http://www.angieslist.com/lp/angieslist2.html) in your city, at least? They do require payment, but I think it would be worth it to avoid any future Daves.

[Ed Zotti]

At this point I usher Dave out of the house, with him swearing on a stack of New Testaments that he will be sending me a formal quote "tomorrow." (FTR, it took 4 weeks) I then our a large glass of pinot noir, collapse into a chair, and think about tweaking fate by calling the next person on my list of potential contractors.Funny story, but you've got way more patience than I do. You can usually tell in about 30 seconds if the guy has a clue or not, and if he's a complete buffoon like this character obviously was I give him the "fine, terrific, we'll call you" routine and hustle him out the door.

[Una Persson]

I cannot believe this. I'm not doubting you, I just can't believe that any modern city would work this way. Is there an Angie's List (http://www.angieslist.com/lp/angieslist2.html) in your city, at least? They do require payment, but I think it would be worth it to avoid any future Daves.
Well, they take seriously actual contractor mistakes on site, but they aren't as concerned about estimation issues and such.

[Una Persson]

Funny story, but you've got way more patience than I do. You can usually tell in about 30 seconds if the guy has a clue or not, and if he's a complete buffoon like this character obviously was I give him the "fine, terrific, we'll call you" routine and hustle him out the door.
I may have more patience, but it may be that I'm filled with the milk of human kindness, and want to give people a chance...it's difficult to keep a straight face while typing that. Let me share something I wrote up once about an actual project.

~

I had only been waiting, sitting in a booth of diamond-checked vinyl at the local Chinese buffet, for a few minutes until my friend Theo walked in. If “walked” is the proper term for it – it was sort of a half-drag, half walk. He looked like a dog who has been hit with one shoe thrown at him from across the room, and which is soon expecting another. We made some pleasantries and went up to get our first course – hot and sour soup and wontons. Thinking of making some small talk to cheer him up, I asked about the status of his home improvement work he had been so eagerly diving into.

“Oh Una, you don’t want to know.”

Well of course I *did* want to know, as I was kind of running on empty in terms of viable small-talk, so I asked again.

“Well, first off, you know I’ve been trying to get my vinyl siding replaced - ”

“This is the siding which was recalled for being too toxic, or something?”

“Yeah. Cancer-causing or something. Well, I finally got it done, in a way.”

“In what way?”

“In a fucking fuckity fucked up way.”

“Ah” I said, and looked longingly to the buffet for the twice-cooked pork.

“The first problem was removing the siding. Apparently, the only tool you really need is a hammer – just dig in the claw-end and let ‘er rip.”

“Really. That sounds intense.”

“Intensely fucking destructive. I think they took half the wood that was under the shingles off while doing that.”

“I’ll bet that was loud.”

“And they dumped all the pieces of old siding, broken wood, and nails on the ground. They didn’t really try to clean it all up, but I guess they tried to try. I’ll probably be shooting nails out of my lawnmower and skewering the neighbor’s kids for years to come.”

“Well, it’s an excuse to mow less. You really do cut your lawn too short. And they replaced everything that was damaged, right?”

Theo gave me a baleful look over his soup.

“Never mind. But they did put on new siding, right? Like they were supposed to? New, non-PCB-laden, non-carcinogenic siding?”

“Oh, Una, the pain. It only grows.”

“Look, let’s get some of the main course, and then you can tell me more.”

A few minutes later, returning with plates laden with General Tso’s and Sesame Chicken, I urged Theo to continue.

“Well, Una…I’ve learned a lot in this home siding process.”

“Example?”

“OK…we’re you aware that siding people do not have saws?”

“You mean, as in to cut things?”

“Precisely. They have this tool mounted on the back of the 1960’s-era Ford pickup they use as a so-called work truck, but no saws.”

“Um…OK, what’s the ramifications?”

“Well, the ramifications, as you put it, is that siding works really well in nice, long strips. Until you get to these things called windows. Then all hell breaks loose.”

“What sort of hell?”

“Well, if a piece of siding hits the edge of a window, they use tin snips and cut it. So you have a razor-sharp jagged edge that kind of sticks out into the space in front of the window.”

“Does it block your view?”

“Partly. I mean, yeah. But the main problem is that if you were to be so stupid as to open a window and put your arm outside, you might very well bleed to death shredding it on the vinyl edges.”

“I assume you can trim that up for them?”

“You mean do their fucking job? Yeah, I’m used to that. But that’s not the main problem. When the siding along the bottom and top edges doesn’t line up nicely with the bottom and top edges of the windows, do you know what happens?”

“I’m dying to hear.”

“Well, one guy takes a large hammer and a piece of 2 by 4 as a dowel, and pounds your fucking window into the house so it’s flush with the outside.”

“What the hell?”

“Yes, they pound around the edge of the frame, bashing the window in until it’s flush with the outside, so they don’t have to do detailed trim work. Amazing, really.”

“Um…I don’t think…”

“And what’s best, Una” he said, spearing a fried shrimp with gusto, “is that when they pound the windows in like that, it rips them free of the drywall inside, and breaks out huge chunks of it that fall on the floor and leave holes to the outside. Oh, and by the way, I found out that the contractor of my cheap-ass spec home didn’t bother to put insulation in my bedroom walls…no wonder it’s so fucking cold all the time in there.”

“Did they break any glass?”

In answer to what I thought was a legitimate question, Theo looked at me with total disbelief. “No, they broke my fucking walls. I would have been happy if it had only been glass. Who gives a shit about glass when there are walls to break?”

“Didn’t you complain to the siders who were on-site working?”

“Sure I did. And guess what - they all speak Portuguese, and nothing else. Actually, I heard one of them speaking English on his cell phone, but when I went over to yell at him about why my windows were erupting into my bedroom, he shrugged his shoulders and said something I couldn’t understand. So I grabbed him and took him inside and showed him the broken drywall, and he smiled and shook my hand! As if he was saying ‘congratulations – that was exactly the effect we were trying for!’ ”

“Holy crap, what are you going to do?”

“Well, I got out expanding foam and filled the holes I could so cicadas would stop flying into my house. Some pieces of drywall I can hold on with duct tape. And while I was doing that I was trying to call the fucking contractor.”

“And this resulted in…”

“It resulted in him saying he’s deeply concerned, and will try to come out to see what the fuss is sometime next week or maybe a week later. He’s not sure, he’s sort of busy this time of year. Plus his kid has this thing he has to go to in another country.”

“Um…wow.”

“Yeah, wow. You know, I really was happier living with the cancer-causing siding.”

“All things considered, Theo, yeah.”

“And you know, Una, with genetic medications and stuff, I mean, there’s probably going to be a cure soon, right?”

“For cancer, yes. For bad contractors, no.”

[Yllaria]

They might want to know that he's misrepresenting their building code. Or that his comments on insurance leads you to suspect that he may not have any.

Or they might not know where to file the comments.

[Hampshire]

I needed a new furnace to replace the 23 year-old one that came with the house.
I talked extensively with my brother's friend who lived a few states away who installs them for a living so he could educate me on what I needed.

First guy comes to give an estimate.
Looks at what's there.
"I can put in a new one for $4k."
That was the extent of his estimate. Getting any other info out him was like pulling teeth.
"Well, what brand is it?"
"What brand do you want?"
"What brands do you carry?"
"All the major ones."
"O...K.... what ones would those be?"
He rattles off a few names.
"And which brand were you quoting me for?"
"Which one do you want?"
sigh... "How about Carrier?"
"Oh, those are more."
"yeah, yeah, okay. How about it's efficiency rating?"
"Oh, they're all better than what you have here."
"Yeah, I figured that, but aren't some better than others?"
"They're all good."
seeing this is going nowhere.. "Allllllrighty then. $4K. I'll let you know."

Second guy I called looked at what I had, sat at my kitchen table, educated me about brands, efficiency, features, what was worth the extra cost in his opinion, what wasn't worth the extra (which matched what my bros friend said), and gave me quotes for several ways I could go, and in addition noticed that whoever hooked up the hot water heater f'd it up and offered to fix it for no additional cost.
I really didn't care what the price would be from that point and simply went with this guy.

[Yllaria]

They might want to know that he's misrepresenting their building code. Or that his comments on insurance leads you to suspect that he may not have any.

Or they might not know where to file the comments.

Sigh.

This would have made more sense if it had slotted in where I was expecting it. It's about that Dave guy. I did preview, I just didn't preview successfully.

[FairyChatMom]

Oh, window guys, how I hate thee all!

Worst of all was the guy I called based on a radio ad. He, like others, insisted that both spouses be present. I should lie and tell them I'm a widow. Anyway, he was almost half an hour late, and we had places to go that afternoon - we were about to leave when he showed up.

He went thru this hideous routine, including such inane questions as "Well, you do want to save money, don't you?" He was at a loss when my husband asked him some specific engineering questions, and his explanations about the structure of the frames were bogus. I walked him from room to room so he could get his measurements, and while my husband and I played with the sample (it was a really good design and a nice window) the sales idiot calculated the price.

Then he said (no I'm not kidding about this) "Guess how much it is?" Yeah, I want to play guessing games with some sales geek.

For 7 windows, something over $12K. (I'd guessed $11K) But if we'd order right then and there, he'd discount it. He wouldn't tell us by how much till we agreed to buy. At that point, we told him we had places to go, and he got all huffy, insisting he'd been promised 90 minutes. Yeah, right.

As I let him out the front door, he departed, saying "Thanks for being serious."

I wrote a very specific letter to the company recounting the experience. Never heard a word back. Warned several coworkers against calling them. And we still don't have replacement windows. Maybe next spring...

[madmonk28]

I came home from work and noticed one of the contractors had a pair of shoes just like mine (Salomon light hiking shoes). I said, "I have a pair just like those." He said, "these are yours, I didn't want to get paint on my shoes."

Well, as long as he had a good reason.

[DaddyTimesTwo]

And my friend the contractor gets all huffy when people treat him as if he were trying to rip them off. He just doesn't understand, does he?

[Joey P]

I came home from work and noticed one of the contractors had a pair of shoes just like mine (Salomon light hiking shoes). I said, "I have a pair just like those." He said, "these are yours, I didn't want to get paint on my shoes."

Well, as long as he had a good reason.

:eek:

Mine is pretty bland compared to the rest, but seeing as I'm trying to cook some rice. I guess I have a few minutes.

About a day or two after we moved into our house, our garage door opener stopped working. I got out my test equipment and after some troubleshooting, found whatever idiot wired up the outlet for it, wired it into the front porch lights. Umm kay, I guess we'll leave those lights on all the time now. The thing is, the only always live power that came into the garage was fed from a switch (to the garage light) that for fire code reasons was behind drywall. The ceiling for about 4 feet into the garage is also drywalled. The means that getting a wire to that switch would involve alot of work. It was a perfect job to do someday. Fast foward to about two weeks ago. I moved a fridge from it's current location in the garage (against said drywall on a live outlet) to a different area. Hmmm, outlet doesn't work. What the hell. Get out the test equipment and find that that outlet as well as the others in the garage are wired to the garage light...what does that mean? It means that the only time the outlets work are when the garage light is on. Why the hell would someone do that? Okay, so the garage light and the garage door opener are about two feet apart. I figure I'll just take the wire that goes from the outlet to the light and move it to the box that the garage door opener is wired into. No big deal. As long as I keep my porch lights on to keep the garage door opener functional, I might as well hook the outlets to it. When I opened the box that the light was on (the one controlled from the switch) I found something. The wire coming from the switch had two hots and a neutral. The second hot was capped off and not live. That's strange, but it sure as hell made my day. I opened up the switch and sure enough, the other end of the unused wire, right there. I wired it in, a little more wiring up on top and now my whole garage is 'hot' and I don't have to have my garage light or porch lights on anymore. I've had my porch lights on 24 hours a day for three years cuz some electrician must have been in a hurry and didn't say "hmmm this can't be right."

[IAmNotSpartacus]

I cannot believe this. I'm not doubting you, I just can't believe that any modern city would work this way. Is there an Angie's List (http://www.angieslist.com/lp/angieslist2.html) in your city, at least? They do require payment, but I think it would be worth it to avoid any future Daves.
Meh.

-1 for Angie's List.

We called a bunch of contractors to do new windows, both from Angie's list and off. The AL contractors were all at least 50% higher than the quotes from non-AL contractors. One of them told us it would be $20k for the job without so much as measuring a window ("I've been doing this for a long time").

Oh yeah, and the closest contractor we found from them was 18 miles away. He didn't want to come give a quote because the drive was too far.

YMWV, eh?

[madmonk28]

Yep. Is there some sort of contracting overseer in your city? I do feel that you should report "Dave" to some authority. The guy is clearly dangerous, and especially so to potential customers who don't know as much about stairs and their construction as you do. I don't know how it is in other cities, but reliable contractors in DC are incredibly hard to find. It might have changed now that the housing market has slowed, but I remember a story in DC of a homeowner who refused to pay a contractor for some shoddy work a few years back and the contractor killed the homeowner and rolled him up in a rug. I'm convinced at his trial the prosecutors probably said to him "if you get off, can I get your card? We want to redo our kitchen."

[GargoyleWB]

A window contractor sales guy was the worst I've ever experienced. Some choice lines I remember:

"You are losing money by *not* buying these today"
"This is made with European technology!"
"Our gas molecules are specifically sized!"
"We can custom fit to match any frame or size" (upon showing him my little kitchen slider window trimmed with ceramic tile) "Umm...I'm sure our guys can do that" (furious clipboard scribbling ensued).
"They slide so easy, even a woman can open them."
(while outside, shines a red-gelled flashlight through my window) "Tch tch tch...I'm afraid all your gas has leaked out of this one...probably doubling your heat bills." (umm, and what spectral setting was your space visor set on while doing that test Mr. Predator?)

[Batsinma Belfry]

When we bought our house, the nextdoor neighbor was a roofing guy. He was involved in some kind of feud with the previous owner of our house. When she put the house on the market, the housing inspector suggested a new roof, but she didn't want to spend the money. Suddenly, roofing guy neighbor gets all friendly and they become buddies. He offers to do the roof for free.
After we moved in, it became very obvious that the "new roof" which was the main selling point of our house, was less than perfect. Our first rain resulted in half the shingles sliding off the house, and the light bulbs filling with water. After 3 months, the ceiling fell in one room.
Guess what! He offered to give us a new roof for half-price. He told us he had just wanted her out as soon as possible, and would do an excellent job for us. :rolleyes:

We declined.

[Chefguy]

I was at the electrical supply store locally, standing in line at the counter behind two guys in typical "real Alaskan" attire: unkempt hair and beard, plaid shirt, Carhartt overalls, ball cap. Their conversation with the counter guy went something like this:

Counter Guy: Help you?
Dude #1: We need some wahr.
CG: Pardon?
D1: We need some wahr...some house wahr.
CG: House wire?
D1: Yep.
CG: What kind are you looking for?
D1 (looking a bit confused): The kahnd for a house...
D2: Yeah, we're wirin' up a house for a lady.
CG: Well, do you need single strand, romex, bx, or....?
D1: Just yer normal house wahr.
CG :: pulls a piece of romex from behind counter:: Something like this?
D2: Yeah, that'll do I guess.
CG: What gauge do you need.
D2: Don't need no gauges, just the wahr.
CG: No, what gauge WIRE do you need? 14, 12, 10?
D1: Hey, we just need somethin' to wahr up a house.
CG, who is exasperated by now: What exactly are you hooking up?
D1: A stove.
CG: Okay, well you'll probably need #6 for that.
D2: It's a big stove...maybe we should get #7...? (for those non-electricians on the board, the larger the wire, the smaller the number, i.e., #4 is larger than #6)
CG, looking slowly back and forth at these two knuckleheads, pulls out a roll of #6, takes their money and watches them leave the store.

Me: Perhaps you should call the fire department.
CG: Nah. I'm sure they'll electrocute themselves before they set the place on fire.

[GLWasteful]

I own a Lustron home. Made entirely out of steel. Not something that anyone encounters regularly, I readily concede. Downside is that it was a rental for a long time before I bought it. Further downside is that the chinless hillbillies that were renters (before they got so far behind that the owner's son really had no alternative except to toss 'em out) "worked off" rent payments by doing things.

First thing: they offered to replace the bathroom sink. Said it was leaking and they would get it taken care of. Of course, rather than replace the bathroom sink that was not working, they chose to put in a new sink. In a new place. Thereby leaving inlet lines and a drain in the spot in the bathroom where a sink should have gone and encountering the conundrum of running new lines and a drain in the corner of the bathroom they decided was better. Did I mention the house is made out of steel? Walls, ceiling, siding, everything is steel. So they decided that since the spot they would be using was opposite (approximately) the washing machine drain they would simply tie into those lines. Doing so, naturally, required going through the wall. Of course, they couldn't just drill through (well, they could have, but I'm not at all certain they could have successfully opened the box of, let alone chucked a bit into and used an electric drill) they instead used what I think was a sawzall to cut two X's into the steel panel and simply peeled the steel back to create passages. Upon buying the place, I had a sink put in where it should have been and am currently using the cabinet that held their sink as storage. An added bonus is I have a sink that I'm still trying to unload. The less said about what one of them did to the ceiling in one of the rooms the better.

Oh, and the contractors! I wanted to replace the heating apparatus since I was in no hurry to piss away every dime I made keeping the place warm. Had five guys come in. Most of them would stare at the house, listen to what I was looking for and walk away shaking their heads. I can respect them for that. My favorite: contractor wanted to put in a heat pump and rather than run ducting told me he would use the plenum as it existed. Which would have required the fan to run constantly. Being the astute individual he was, he noticed my look of puzzlement and rushed to explain that it wouldn't be an issue and that he did this same sort of installation all of the time. "In steel houses?" I asked. No, but I would be surprised at the number of wood houses where the fan ran constantly to keep the ducts dry. Smiled and escorted him out. Poured a stiff drink and went to the next contractor on the list.

Had to have new juice run, since I decided to go with a tankless water heater. The electrician looked at the place, deemed it doable and I was pleased to have someone who seemed comfortable with my less-than-conventional home. Ran into problems when he told me that he had ruined a bit drilling the hole for my mast. I commiserated, but he wanted me to pay to replace his drill bit. I explained that he had already indicated that he could do it. His response, "But I was drilling through steel!" I pointed out that I was intimately familiar with what my entire house was made of.

As I said, I understand that my house is a bit different than most, but damnit, don't act all surprised at what you're dealing with when you've seen the place during the estimate portion of our little contractor/homeowner dance.

And replace your own damned drill bit.

The window guys I went with were the one bright shining moment in dealing with contractors. They finished the job in less than the time allotted and aside from the new plastic smell, which went away in time, I'm incredibly pleased with the finished result.

[Una Persson]

Had to have new juice run, since I decided to go with a tankless water heater. The electrician looked at the place, deemed it doable and I was pleased to have someone who seemed comfortable with my less-than-conventional home. Ran into problems when he told me that he had ruined a bit drilling the hole for my mast. I commiserated, but he wanted me to pay to replace his drill bit. I explained that he had already indicated that he could do it. His response, "But I was drilling through steel!" I pointed out that I was intimately familiar with what my entire house was made of.

As I said, I understand that my house is a bit different than most, but damnit, don't act all surprised at what you're dealing with when you've seen the place during the estimate portion of our little contractor/homeowner dance.

And replace your own damned drill bit.
Good Lord, what a whiny bitch he was. You should have offered to pay for his drill bit, but charged him an equal amount for the electricity he used. And if he used the toilet at all while he was on-site...oh, that's gotta be $1 a square for toilet paper ($1.50 for double-ply, and maybe $2.00 for the extra-soft Charmin that's so padded it feels like wiping with chamois.)

[GLWasteful]

Good Lord, what a whiny bitch he was.
Correction. Well known whiny bitch. His name is quite known locally and I've spoken to a number of folk who've had him in and thought he was the bees knees. But to me he was, indeed, a whiny bitch who actually looked surprised when I told him I wouldn't replace his bit.

You should have offered to pay for his drill bit, but charged him an equal amount for the electricity he used. And if he used the toilet at all while he was on-site...oh, that's gotta be $1 a square for toilet paper ($1.50 for double-ply, and maybe $2.00 for the extra-soft Charmin that's so padded it feels like wiping with chamois.)
Yeah, prolly, but I just figured, "Fuck this shit! I've been jerked around by a baker's dozen assholes since I bought this place and I'll be damned if I'm gonna start letting someone play me now."

[gonzomax]

I'm going to post a couple of tales. Feel free to add your own.

~

Exhibit 1 is a male, about age 40, very heavyset and mustachioed, looking pretty much like a "contractor" ought to look. For the purpose of this story, I will call him "Dave."

We observe him as he enters the house and is told that I wish to have a flight of stairs built to connect the second finished story with the third unfinished story. At hearing this Dave wrinkles his brow and starts to look concerned, as if I've just asked him to compute up a few Eigenvectors, or perhaps whip up a quick 5-course Cordon Bleu-quality meal for lunch. Dave says that in all his 20 years of working as a carpenter, he has never, ever even contemplated building a flight of stairs to connect two stories of a house.

"But", I say, "your advertisement says you specialize in stairs?"

"Yes...mostly railings and trim."

"O...K, when I spoke with you on the phone, and told you that in fact I needed a flight of stairs built, that wasn't a warning to you? That somehow a flight of stairs did not consist of just a railing hanging Escher-like in space with two pieces of trim alongside, but actual stairs that people can stand upon?"

"Well...let me see what we have here. Do you have a tape measure I can borrow?"

Now I know what you're thinking - a carpenter without a tape measure. That that was the point at which I should have taken my Glock out of my purse and escorted him to the door. And upon reflection that would have yielded a better result in the end, true. However, at this point I figured that I had already missed work, and he was there, so I'd give him a chance. I handed him a tape measure, and he looked at it as if I'd handed him a Rubik's Cube. Then he went about leaning and staring at the space I wanted the stairs in, the tape measure totally forgotten.

"Um...is there any structure behind this wall?"

"You mean, like...the wall?"

"Yeah. Is there anything I should know about behind this?"

"Well gosh, I don't know, I left my wall-penetrating radar at work, I thought you would, you know, go up in the attic and take a look?"

"Um...no, I don't want to do that."

"Why not?"

"Because it's hard."

"I...see." At this point I start to notice that Dave is probably a serious trencherman, as he appears to wear about a 55-inch belt. Thinking to the small access hole into the attic at the current time, I quickly foresaw that the solution to Dave + Attic Hole = Paramedics.

"Well, there is a furnace duct not too far away, and some plumbing about here, and a giant piece of composite wood about 2 feet high by 4 inches thick that could be structural unless the builders were just bored and wanted to see how high they could stack 2 by 4's, but you'll be able to clear that, right?"

"Hmmm."

Dave then starts to thump on the wall, around in circles. This goes on for a minute and accomplishes nothing whatsoever. He hands me back the still-virgin tape measure, and says "Um, about $1000."

"That's it? About $1000?"

"Yup."

"How many steps will there be?"

"Don't know."

"Um...O...K, how will the steps be put together?"

"You know, like normal."

"Well, I want them glued, screwed, counter-bored, and filled with plugs, and sanded to be finished."

"You want what?"

I repeated.

"Why?"

"Oh, I don't know, with so many things going strange in this topsy-turvey world we live in, I decided I wanted stairs that were done right."

"Oh they'll be done right."

"Will they be done like I want?"

"Why do you want that?"

"SO THE STAIRS WILL BE SOLID AND NOT SQUEAK."

"Oh don't worry, they won't."

"Why, because you're going to glue and screw them?"

"I don't know. I don't usually do that."

"Why not?"

"Well it costs extra."

"Fine, tell me how much."

"I don't know...you don't want to do that, really."

"WHY NOT?"

"It'll be fine, trust me. I know what I'm doing. I've been in the business."

"But you said you'd never built stairs like this before."

"Well, they're stairs, you know. Not that hard. Standard stuff."

"Right...tell me about the stringers and risers?"

"Risers?"

"Yes, most stairs have them - see, like these right here (pointing to the flight nearby from the 1st story)."

"Oh, I wasn't going to use any."

"W-hy not? Aren't they required by code?" (they are, FTR)

"You don't need them. Besides", he says, wiping his brow (it's 75F in my house and the man is already sweating like a proverbial pig), "when we work on finishing the upper floor we'll trash the stairs."

"I'm sorry, I must have had a mild stroke. Why would you trash the stairs you just built?"

"Because they always get trashed when you work on things."

"I...see. And the stairs leading up to this story, I can expect them to be 'trashed' as well?"

"No, we'll protect those."

"Then why for heaven's sake won't you protect the new stairs you'll build?"

"Because they'll be temporary."

"WHY?"

"Because they'll just get trashed. Don't worry, the second time we do it, it'll be for good."

I quickly see that I've stumbled into a game of "who's on first", and drop it there, as if he can't figure it out by now, he never will. And at this point I've pretty much decided he's a loss and so it really doesn't matter what he says. However, I tempt fate by asking another question, one which I know the answer to already:

"And your people, you have insurance coverage? Worker's comp?"

"Oh yeah, got all that."

"And you'll show me the certificate of insurance?"

"Well, my insurance company says I can't. It's pro-prie-tary."

"What? An insurer who won't admit to insuring someone? Isn't that sort of, well, illegal?"

"Not so far."

At this point I usher Dave out of the house, with him swearing on a stack of New Testaments that he will be sending me a formal quote "tomorrow." (FTR, it took 4 weeks) I then our a large glass of pinot noir, collapse into a chair, and think about tweaking fate by calling the next person on my list of potential contractors.

Be careful. there are standards for stairs. You wont pass inspection if they do not know that. I do not know your area but the hight of steps and the length of the footspace are regulated. A non standard staircase is uncomfortable to walk on and could be dangerous.

[Tastes of Chocolate]

Worst of all was the guy I called based on a radio ad. He, like others, insisted that both spouses be present. I should lie and tell them I'm a widow. Anyway, he was almost half an hour late, and we had places to go that afternoon - we were about to leave when he showed up.

He went thru this hideous routine, including such inane questions as "Well, you do want to save money, don't you?" He was at a loss when my husband asked him some specific engineering questions, and his explanations about the structure of the frames were bogus. I walked him from room to room so he could get his measurements, and while my husband and I played with the sample (it was a really good design and a nice window) the sales idiot calculated the price.

Then he said (no I'm not kidding about this) "Guess how much it is?" Yeah, I want to play guessing games with some sales geek.

For 7 windows, something over $12K. (I'd guessed $11K) But if we'd order right then and there, he'd discount it. He wouldn't tell us by how much till we agreed to buy. At that point, we told him we had places to go, and he got all huffy, insisting he'd been promised 90 minutes. Yeah, right.

We met this same guy selling siding. He wouldn't make a quote until we'd picked colors from his samples (no, the color didn't affect the pricing). His entire knowledge about why this siding was so great was "It uses J channels. He had 1 flyer about the company, which he wouldn't leave with us. He scribbled the bid out on a piece of scratch paper. Then we got to play the guessing game. Neither one of us was even close. I believe the original bid was close to $60k, but he could discount it to $40k if we signed today. And they would arrange financing if we needed. 30 years worth, and we could roll our mortgage into it. When we asked for a copy of the bid, in case we decided to go with them (it was our first bid, we didn't yet know how out of line it was) he said wouldn't because "No one ever buys their siding once the salesman is out the door." Gee, I wonder why?

[Jake]

I worked for almost 15 years as a house painter. As a scab. No contractor's license, no insurance, no advertising (except word-of-mouth.)
We never had a lack of business because we always bid lower than anyone else and did excellent work. We bent over backwards to insure the customer was satisfied. The material (paint) was a down payment, (went to the customers garage or back yard), and a punch list was completed before final payment.
Seems like we were an exception...
BTW, we LOVED painting houses!!

[Sparky812]

Oh, window guys, how I hate thee all!

Worst of all was the guy I called based on a radio ad. He, like others, insisted that both spouses be present. I should lie and tell them I'm a widow. Anyway, he was almost half an hour late, and we had places to go that afternoon - we were about to leave when he showed up.

He went thru this hideous routine, including such inane questions as "Well, you do want to save money, don't you?" He was at a loss when my husband asked him some specific engineering questions, and his explanations about the structure of the frames were bogus. I walked him from room to room so he could get his measurements, and while my husband and I played with the sample (it was a really good design and a nice window) the sales idiot calculated the price.

Then he said (no I'm not kidding about this) "Guess how much it is?" Yeah, I want to play guessing games with some sales geek.

For 7 windows, something over $12K. (I'd guessed $11K) But if we'd order right then and there, he'd discount it. He wouldn't tell us by how much till we agreed to buy. At that point, we told him we had places to go, and he got all huffy, insisting he'd been promised 90 minutes. Yeah, right.

As I let him out the front door, he departed, saying "Thanks for being serious."

I wrote a very specific letter to the company recounting the experience. Never heard a word back. Warned several coworkers against calling them. And we still don't have replacement windows. Maybe next spring...

I think my elderly parents had this same window guy! He talked and talked like he was a long lost friend but skirted alot of questions they had about brand, thickness energy star rating, etc.. Everything was "no problem".
Then he wouldn't leave until they bought from him. My parents said they would think about it and call him, to which he became indignant and insisted they should buy now.
My mom, the peacemaker, said that they did not want to make a decision right now and were on their way to an important appointment. He demanded to know what could be more important than him. Annoyed, mom replied " If you really must know , we have to go to the bank to see if we can afford new windows!"
Big mistake! This clown now wants to follow them to the bank and wait in the parking lot for them to come out with the money to pay him!!
Luckily, I live close by so as soon as my mom called me and asked if I could come over, the guy beat a quick exit.
I'm really starting to hate these guys who prey on senior citizens, especially those enumerators from the gas and electric companies demanding to see your bill and won't leave insisting people sign up for their "discount", etc.

[Sparky812]

Well if I can include the guy who owned our home before us, I can post for days. The worst example of this guy is probably the roof. He decided to re-shingle it himself. He bought halfway decent shingles but didn't research how to lay them. Apparently someone told him he didn't need to lay down weatherstripping or starter strip, he could just turn the first layer of shingles around. He thought that meant with the wrong side facing up so that the side supposed to be touching the roof is now facing up. So that is what he did. You could look down and see exposed roof at the edge. We had snow and ice coming down into the soffits and freezing in there, water damage under the soffits and even melting ice coming down inside the windows in the winter. The gutters and downspouts, soffits, all had to be redone too because they just weren't done right (not enough downspouts, soffits not vented properly, etc. He had laid insulation over the soffit vents.)

So we had to scrape off nearly new shingles so we could start completely over. What a waste.

Another day, I can tell you about his tiling work.

I have the same problem, it's unbelievable the things the previous owner has screwed up! Everytime I try to fix something simple, I open a huge can of worms!
My poor wife is going to have a breakdown.
Last week, changing one light fixture became a complete rewire and drywall job.
Here's how it went:
Oh... light fixture is screwed to wall stud, OK
Hmm, no electrical box, just wires hanging out hole in drywall.
No marettes? OK, lots of...hockey tape? Yes, that's hockey tape!
Ground? Where is ground wire? Oh there it is, someone cut it.
Hey, new Romex at switch, old wire at hole in wall?
Check continuity from switch... yep one and only wire.
Notice bad drywall patch between the two.
Knock hole in wall, Aha marettes but no junction box.
Better yet, Romex is run outside studs inside and just under drywall!
Fuck it! Knock all drywall down, install proper wiring, add a couple outlets, etc..
Drywall, tape, plaster, and then paint.
Whew!

There's one week I'll never get back. Now on to the next room...

[Miss Woodhouse]

We were trying to get our utility closet moved last year so we called a few plumbers to see who could move the water heater within our budget. I informed the first plumber we called that the water heater was installed in an area with a slab foundation but we wanted it moved to a closet in an addition that had a crawl space. He showed up at the house with his buddy and walked around a bit. He gave us an estimate that sounded good and he was recomended by friends, so we agreed to have him do the job. He showed up the day before he was supposed to come do the job to scope it out and see what he would need for supplies. Suddenly, he's all upset that the utility closet is over a slab. He can't do that! That's too hard! There's no way to make it work! He can't get to the plumbing! I'm grateful he didn't try to do it, but it sure would have been nice if he had turned down the job to begin with. My entire kitchen remodel, including a tightly scheduled cabinet installation, hung on getting that water heater moved. He made it so I had to scramble to find someone at the last minute who could squeeze us in.

The guy who finally managed the job was a sweet little old man who kept showing us pictures of his two year old girl he had with his mail order bride. He was crazy but he didn't even hesitate when he saw the concrete slab. A sledgehammer opened up that plumbing no problem. ;) (Of course, since we were on a budget, we got to patch it again ourselves.)

I gained nearly 25 feet of floor space and an eight foot long counter moving that stupid water heater. It was worth it all.

Of course, neither of these plumbers were the ones who installed the basement toilet so it ran on hot water . . . .

[Smeghead]

Ugh. I need to hire someone to reroof our screened-in porch, and this thread is making my hyperventilate.

[shiftless]

Thanks all. I had my siding and windows replaced last year and could never get over the feeling that I had overpaid. Now I see that I actually got good work for a decent price. I still don't see how a few guys working for a few days can cost so many thousand of dollars but I guess the alterative is spending thousands for shitty work.

[Connecting Rod]

. . . . My favorite: contractor wanted to put in a heat pump and rather than run ducting told me he would use the plenum as it existed. Which would have required the fan to run constantly. Being the astute individual he was, he noticed my look of puzzlement and rushed to explain that it wouldn't be an issue and that he did this same sort of installation all of the time. "In steel houses?" I asked. No, but I would be surprised at the number of wood houses where the fan ran constantly to keep the ducts dry. Smiled and escorted him out. Poured a stiff drink and went to the next contractor on the list.
. . . . .

I'm not sure why this is a problem. It's really not that unusual for the fan to run constantly. My wife has allergies, so we have a HEPA filter and run the fan continuously. Cuts down on dust quite a bit. Make sure you have an efficient fan and it doesn't cost all that much. But if your placement is such that the fan would be noisy, or the steel would make the noise resonate through the house, then I can see this as not a good option.

[Connecting Rod]

. . . .
Of course, neither of these plumbers were the ones who installed the basement toilet so it ran on hot water . . . .

I have seen this as a recommendation if condensation on the pipe and tank from cold water is causing a problem. I don't like it, but at least it might not be a careless mistake.

Of course it could just be blatant laziness.

[MaineRussian]

I am sorry to hear about so many horror stories involving Contractors. Owning a carpentry business I do have to spend way too much time overcoming the typical Contractor stereotype. A bit of advice to homeowners when getting estimates:

Check the vehicle when it pulls into the driveway. Is is presentable or covered in rust and barely moves? Is there signage on the vehicle denoting the business you called. Someone driving onto your property in a beat up truck with beer cans falling out the door when the Contractor gets out is not a good sign.

Is the person prepared? Does he have a tape measure, a tablet of some type to write information down, and are they on time? Also, do they offer to remove their shoes before walking on your nice clean floors? (A sign of courtesy). Are they immediately friendly? (Who wants to work around a grouch?)

In the course of conversation does the person seem at all knowledgeable? Ask some simple questions and feel them out. If they don't seem to be 'with it' then politely end the interview. (It IS an interview, for BOTH sides)

Are you feeling pressured by the sales pitch? This is not a good sign.

Ask up front about what type of Liability Insurance they have and ask for a copy. They should be willing to offer that information and at least have a copy sent to you. If they stall on this then there may be problems in your future.

Ask them where they do business. Which lumber yards or suppliers they use. In event of some suspicions on your part you can always check these vendors. Most Contractors have accounts other than Home Depot or other Big Box Stores.

Check with neighbors and friends about who they may have used in the past and if they would recommend them.

Get a written estimate. This should be fairly specific about what work is to be done, how many people might be involved, and include a start date and a projected finish date.

NEVER give more than 30% up front. I'll say that again. NEVER give more than 30% before the work begins. I usually ask for a deposit only AFTER the materials are delivered as a sign of good faith. A typical payment schedule is usually 30% upon start, 30% at approximate halfway point, and the remainder upon completion.

I could go on about this but I think you get the point. What I don't understand is why people let complete strangers into their home with no apparent checking into the company. I also do not understand why people let bad work continue until completion when it should be stopped at the first sign of trouble.

We are NOT all bad.

-Paul

[Una Persson]

Since my last update - our forays into home repair and improvement:

* The window saleslady who was so stupid she had to ask for help on how to open the windows she was selling, as she did not know how to open them!

* The door salesperson who did not know what "French doors" were, and had never heard of them in their life.

* The third window salesman who came out and jabbed his fucking screwdriver THROUGH THE WOOD OF MY EXISTING WINDOW in an attempt to show me how "rotten" the wood was.

* The roofing guy who came out, did an inspection, promised an estimate "within 2 days." It's been about 3 and a half weeks now.

* The furnace salesman who said he would make an appointment with me to send someone out to test our airflow and balance. That also was 3 and a half weeks ago.

* The door salesman who told me that aluminum was "stronger" than steel.

* The electrical contractor who won't return a phone call when I ask for a quote on replacing a breaker box. Which is worse than the other contractor, who argued with me ad nauseum about how I didn't need to upgrade my service, even though 1) he was wrong, 2) it shouldn't matter to him as he's getting paid for it so long as it's legal, within-code work, and 3) he was absolutely fucking wrong.

And this is 100% of our attempts too - are you all seeing a lot of success in there?

Yup folks, it just keeps on getting fucking funnier.

I don't get it - if I conducted my business like the people I've ranted about, not only would I have no business, but I might get my license yanked by the Board of Technical Professions. Yet somehow contractors can get away with it and keep making money. :confused:

[CandidGamera]

I'm having post-traumatic flashbacks here.

I bought my new (old) home about four years ago. There were a couple of little inherent quirks - like the gas pipes that had no teflon tape or anything to bind them, but were screwed together nice and tight.

House picture. (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/h_front_rt_low.jpg)

But nothing compared to the adventure of remodelling. Thankfully, since this is my first house, my parents have been chomping at the bit to help however they can.

First was the dining room. My parents were insistent on getting rid of the 70's-era paneling, and I figured I didn't care either way, so whatever made them happy.

Some in-progress shots :
Shot One (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/h_front_rt_low.jpg)
Shot Two (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/DR_Doorway.jpg)

Now, we were doing most of the work ourselves, but there was an issue. See, the previous owner had panelled over beautiful Oak trim, and we wanted to restore it - but something in the backing of the paneling or some kind of adhesive they used, perhaps - it had adhered to the trim. Looked ugly.

Fortunately (hah!) there was a handyman type doing some work restoring the house across the street, and through a chance conversation with my Dad, it was worked out that he'd take the oak trim, strip it and re-stain it, and bring it back and put it up. I forget the price, but it was reasonable. My parents were very impressed with the bathroom work he'd done at the house across the street, and excitedly began to plan a bathroom remodel.

This is the point where I probably should have pulled on the reins.

Anyway, the guy gets the trim done.. in four weeks, not the two he'd said - and apparently 1.) didn't let the stain dry in a dry enough place, as it was still tacky, and 2.) forgot to rout a channel in the baseboard pieces for us to slide in the wainscoting. Well, not forgot, per se. He brought the router with him, and did it in my basement. I would've thought "Hey, rout THEN stain." But what do I know?

The important thing was that the dining room got done, and we'd made arrangements for the bathroom remodel.

After One (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/DR_Plaster.jpg)
After Two (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/corner_high.jpg)

I should add at this point that the guy was NOT a licensed contractor, just a seemingly adept handyman who seemed to know what he was doing.. at first. Now, the bathroom remodel was a more complex piece of work. Replacing all the fixtures, taking out the old tiled shower stall and replacing with a new three-piece fiberglass unit, tiling the floor, taking down the tiles on the walls and putting up wainscoting there as well. Oh, and moving the toilet. The toilet was about six inches too close to the wall behind the shower.

Bathroom, Before (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z309/cg_pix/House/h_bathroom.jpg)

Complex job, but he offered us a fantastic price, and we believed he could do the work.

Of course, first he'd have to show up. With him not being a licensed and bonded contractor, I wanted someone to be there in the house when he was working. So, it was something I had to plan in advance. We first planned for a week that I was taking off of work anyway. Didn't show. Rescheduled. Didn't show, rescheduled. Repeat that last bit three or four times.

So, it's a month and a half after when the job was supposed to start. My parents are in town visiting, and they're kinda pissed. Guy comes out Thursday night, all apologetic. Assures us he will be there, 8AM, tomorrow morning, to get started.

Friday morning. 8:15AM. The guy calls. This is actually a step up, because previously after his no-shows, I'd have to call him. He says he's running late, he needs to pick up some tools that a friend of his borrowed. All is well.

11AM. Dad and I have had enough, and decide to hire someone else. Dad runs down the road to get food from Wendy's. Guy shows up to work. Awkward! I ask him why it took three hours to get his tools, and he doesn't have a good answer, and I tell him we're getting someone else.

The end of the saga? Nooo..

My folks and I begin to re-plan the project. We get a licensed plumbing contractor in. He does the tile tear-down and the fixture replacement. He recommends a friend who does flooring, who does a pretty good job on the tile. (It ain't perfect, but it was inexpensive, and I think the defect is due more to give in the floor than a defect of craftsmanship.) Things are actually looking up.

Here's where it gets hairy again, though.

See, the tiles came off the wall easily enough, but the problem is that there is a good bit of what I can only assume is a glue residue of some kind - too thick for us to easily go over. We can't chip it off, because the walls are plaster.

So. The decision is made - complete teardown of the walls, replace with drywall.

We tried to get estimates from a couple of guys - one didn't show, but said the other guy we were talking to did good work. The other guy, in this case, was Ron.

Ron is a genial fellow. He talks a good game. His estimate was kind of high, and when we asked about an estimate on pressure-washing the house, that was ridiculously high. (He wanted $1200 to pressure-wash the house. We got some guys who just do pressure-washing to do it for $200.) Still, he seemed to know his stuff, he presented us with a contract that seemed reasonable, absent the spelling error in my name, and it had his contractor's license number on there.

Work was to begin the following Monday, to be completed in the span of two weeks. Emphasis was made that he should minimize the amount of time the upstairs toilet was out of service, because the half-bath on the first floor is tiny and uncomfortable.

Ha.

Rather than belabor this in story format, let me hit the high points :


Work did not begin Monday, because the check from my parents bank didn't clear instantly or something. This was resolved Monday evening with a phone call.
Work didn't begin Tuesday or Wednesday either.
Work began Thursday, with the tear-down.
The work was completed over a week late.
Toilet was out of service for a week.
Many days went by with no one showing up and doing any work.
Ron claimed to be unable to hook up one of the features of the new vent fan, a night-light, because it would require running an additional wire from the basement, and thus, apparently, a licensed electrician.
Ron's people installed the access panel for the shower cutoffs as asked, but put a wooden support under it that ensured that no one could possibly reach the cutoff valves. (That, we caught and had them fix.)
I specifically offered the use of a piece of half-inch yellow-board drywall that I had in the basement for the narrow strip next to the shower, quite certain that the 3/8s they had been using would not even out correctly for that small section. I was correct, and they said they would use it, but instead they just mudded the drywall out enough to vaguely look even.
The roof vent for the ceiling vent fan was the biggest debacle, they tore out a board in my roof to install it, leaving a section two feet by one foot that was essentially protected only by shingle. (We got them to mostly fix that, but the gap's still too big for my liking.)
And when it was all said and done, and I was formulating a complaint against Ron, I discovered that the contractor's license number he had presented on the contract was fake.


Argh. We did report him to the state, and I understand he got hit with a pretty hefty fine for falsely advertising as a contractor, and warned not to do that again.

My suspicion was that he was, during the day, a worker for a real contractor, and that he and his friends were moonlighting under the radar to make money on the side.

[Una Persson]

The way handymen and contractors comport themselves is sickening to me. I would pay double the "market price" if I had a 100% guarantee of competence. Sadly, home repair and improvement is an area where it doesn't matter how much you pay, you have an equal chance of getting the same shitty, unprofessional, nearly criminal conduct.

[MaineRussian]

The way handymen and contractors comport themselves is sickening to me. I would pay double the "market price" if I had a 100% guarantee of competence. Sadly, home repair and improvement is an area where it doesn't matter how much you pay, you have an equal chance of getting the same shitty, unprofessional, nearly criminal conduct.

Now I think you're just a Troll
If you followed some of the advice I posted earlier then maybe you wouldn't whine so much.

[TubaDiva]

Now I think you're just a Troll
If you followed some of the advice I posted earlier then maybe you wouldn't whine so much.Whoa, this is not acceptable behavior here.

You can agree to disagree with someone but you should not stoop to insults to do so.

If you have a problem with another poster you are invited to take it outside this forum to the Pit.

From the Straight Dope Message Board rules, which you may read here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423183

You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil.

Before you post again you would be well served to read over the rules and look at the individual forum guidelines as well.

Jenny
Administrator

[MaineRussian]

Whoa, this is not acceptable behavior here.
From the Straight Dope Message Board rules, which you may read here:
Before you post again you would be well served to read over the rules and look at the individual forum guidelines as well.
J

Thanks. I apologize to the poster. I have gone and read the guidelines and understand the infraction. Won't happen again.

[MikeF]

We are getting our kitchen re-modeled and I decided to call the number on a flyer given to me while I was cutting the grass. The guy handing out the flyer says he'll have his boss call. The boss calls and he and the helper show up at the appointed time. The boss was nicely dressed. A little too nicely, I thought. Designer jeans, too much gold, fancy haircut. Anyway, he measures the length and width (our tape measure) of the existing kitchen and we tell him we want an island, granite counter tops and a wall removed. "$25 thousand, no more than $30,000. We can start next week." Not one word about cabinets, electrical work, sink, plumbing, type of floor etc. I've never bought a car from a dealer but have accompanied others who did and I got the same feeling. We've since been dealing with true professionals and the difference is amazing.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

I just ripped off my contractor for cool grand!!!!

I wasn't even trying. He was doing a job of renovating my kitchen, dining room, bath, etc. in bits and pieces and on this one part of the job (the dining room floor) he estimated it would cost between 3 and four grand, depending on many days he had to work and how much flooring material he'd have to buy. I let him have a set of partial keys to my apartment, and he wrote me up a bill for 1800 dollars in materials and 2200 dollars in labor (rounded off).

But I only noticed those figures after he had left, and I had paid the the total, which he got to add up to $3000, not $4000. I owed him another $1000, and I figured I would straighten up with him when he returned my house keys. I called him up and he said he'd drop them off tomorrow.

I've called him several more times in the past month, and he's alsways coming up with reasons he didn't drop off the keys the last time, his truck, his helpers, his health all conspiring to make a five -minute errand impossible, and vaguely suggesting that he can come by tomorrow, or thursday, or next week to drop off my keys.

At this point, I'll accept the keys but I think I'll neglect to point out his arithmetical error.

[Una Persson]

Now that this has been bumped, I can post a summary of something which happened this year. Perhaps I won't be called a "troll" or be accused of "whining" this time.

May: Contractor for a major home improvement company comes out to look at our house, to bid on new siding and new roof. The contractor guy seems very sharp and on-the-ball. He passes all of my challenge questions and then some, does not seem to fake anything, and offers many helpful suggestions to both save money and do the job better. His company has a good reputation, and we're enthused.

Two weeks later: He submits a bid for the work. The bid is 3 sentences long. Essentially, "we will replace siding with X and replace roof with Y. Cost for parts and labor, $53,000. When do you want to start?"

I immediately send a reply back saying "We're interested, definitely. Can we see a more detailed bid, spelling out A, B, C, and D? I get an immediate reply saying that a more detailed bid will arrive in a week.

After 1 month passes I remember that I haven't received anything from him. I mail asking for an update. No reply.

A week passes - I phone and leave a message. No reply.

A couple more weeks pass. I send a lengthy mail, saying in short "Hey, look, we liked your price, we liked how you seemed on the ball, we like your company, we want to pay you money for goods and services. All we want is a more detailed bid spelling out what you're going to do, confirming the roofing materials and siding type, etc." I receive a reply after 2 days apologizing and promising to get back to us asap. They say how "enthused" they are about doing the project.

Two more weeks pass. I mail. No reply. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

So now May turns to November, and I have mailed and phoned several times, and never had a reply back. None.

How can an industry like this exist, where you shit on paying customers who want to keep you employed in this economy? How?

But I guess that's my fault, right MaineRussian? I guess I should have driven down to their office and just meekly given them $53,000 in small bills based on a 3-sentence e-mail, and been happy, right? And maybe this year, maybe next, my roof and siding would get done - when they wanted to do it, and not before. That is, if I'm good little girl, right? :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, the electrician - a so-called "Master Electrician" came out to give us a bid on some electrical work in June. He gave us an estimated price. We said "sounds great, draw up a bid and let's get moving!" It's November now, and he still hasn't figured out how to do work and receive money for said work. But I guess that's my fault too, for wanting to hire someone to do work. I mean, really, who the hell did I think I was? How dare I!? :rolleyes:

[moejoe]

I just ripped off my contractor for cool grand!!!!

I wasn't even trying. He was doing a job of renovating my kitchen, dining room, bath, etc. in bits and pieces and on this one part of the job (the dining room floor) he estimated it would cost between 3 and four grand, depending on many days he had to work and how much flooring material he'd have to buy. I let him have a set of partial keys to my apartment, and he wrote me up a bill for 1800 dollars in materials and 2200 dollars in labor (rounded off).

But I only noticed those figures after he had left, and I had paid the the total, which he got to add up to $3000, not $4000. I owed him another $1000, and I figured I would straighten up with him when he returned my house keys. I called him up and he said he'd drop them off tomorrow.

I've called him several more times in the past month, and he's alsways coming up with reasons he didn't drop off the keys the last time, his truck, his helpers, his health all conspiring to make a five -minute errand impossible, and vaguely suggesting that he can come by tomorrow, or thursday, or next week to drop off my keys.

At this point, I'll accept the keys but I think I'll neglect to point out his arithmetical error.

If someone hung on to my keys for a month I would give up and get the locks changed.

[NDCompuGeek]

Wow. These horror stories remind me how blessed I am to know a few people in the construction trades. As I have bumped elbows with some yahoo's while doing my work (low voltage wiring; AKA network, stereo, alarm, telephone wiring), I have also seen some spectacular work of the highest quality. The only problem is that, when the time came for me to get some work on my house (originally built approx. 1830, had a few major and minor remodels since then), all the people that I knew were good are busy.

So, I have to go in cold and pray for the best. First company I call to replace the windows wanted window measurements over the phone, and was 'willing' to quote me a price sight-unseen. Right....

A couple of other people come in, do some measuring, do a lot of talking, but in the end leave me with the feeling I should take a shower and disinfect where they were sitting.

Next was the company whose rep showed up riding a Harley, but had all he needed to do a proper estimate (tape measure, reams of paper and forms for all sorts of windows and options, etc.etc.etc.) I ask him qualifier questions and he KNOWS what is going on and apologizes for his appearance when I bring it up, telling me that his family time got away from him but he really wanted to make our appointment on time, and the bike was easier than going back to the shop for the truck. I did a little checking up on him and found out that he is, indeed, a licensed and insured independent contractor himself but is working as a representative for another licensed and insured contracting company, has a knack for appearing a little offbeat, but a reputation for doing some quality work, and even has a kid in the same school as my kids. Guess who I plan on going with for the windows? On a plus note, when he wrote out the estimate, he highlighted the sections 'homeowner responsibilities' and 'contractor responsibilities' and told me that if I ever thought the company was not holding up their end of the bargain, feel free to call him direct (he gave me his cell phone number) and he will come right over.

I just hope things go as well as this guy appears... I'll let you know as things progress more in the spring, when it's scheduled to happen.