Biden Getting Ready To Step Aside?

[Stephe96]

What a shock. Joe Biden is an absolute idiot who, on the same day he asked a wheelchair-bound state senator to stand up for a round of applause, is now admitting: "Make no mistake about this," Biden responded. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight. She’s a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me. But she’s first rate, I mean that sincerely, she’s first rate, so let’s get that straight."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/biden-hillary-a.html

The Obama camp has got to be in a panic ever since they were blindsided by Sarah Palin's popularity, but is there a chance that they might be laying the groundwork for Biden to step aside to make way for Hillary? If so, this would be a rather clumsy way of going about it. I realize they only have 7 weeks or so, but wouldn't "health reasons" really be the way to go here? Then Barack could "with sincere regret and reluctance" accept Biden's resignation to allow Hillary to step in. At least that way there would always be some doubt as to whether it was intentional or not. To float a trial balloon like this (if that's what this is) will only serve to make Obama appear to be an indecisive buffoon who royally screwed up his first major decision as a presidential candidate.

But would Hillary's popularity be enough to counter that?

[begbert2]

I don't believe that Biden is preparing to step aside and I don't think that anything you've mentioned indicates that that might be in the works.

Not even the fact that he failed to torpedo himself by saying that Hillary is a stupid doodyhead who couldn't be VP because she's a woman.

[DigitalC]

Hes just kissing ass, nothing surprising about it.

[Marley23]

Biden was being diplomatic. He is a diplomat.

[bdgr]

Not a chance. I think Biden is going to kick the shit out of Palin first time they debate.

[Stephe96]

Hes just kissing ass, nothing surprising about it.

But isn't he also effectively saying that Obama made the wrong pick? I mean, I guess there's nothing "effectively" about it...that's exactly what he's saying!

[John Mace]

Biden is famous for having foot-in-mouth disease, but these things are nothing. He's not stepping aside. That would do more harm to Obama than good.

[begbert2]

But isn't he also effectively saying that Obama made the wrong pick? I mean, I guess there's nothing "effectively" about it...that's exactly what he's saying!Nope. He said she might have been a better pick, and that she is qualified for the job, and is as qualified or more qualified as him. Basically he's calling her a peer and being humble. He's not saying that he himself is unqualified for the job or that his own selection was a mistake.

[DigitalC]

But isn't he also effectively saying that Obama made the wrong pick? I mean, I guess there's nothing "effectively" about it...that's exactly what he's saying!

Hes kissing a LOT of ass.

[Marley23]

But isn't he also effectively saying that Obama made the wrong pick?
What he's doing is complimenting a friend and ally, and it's best not to take that kind of smoke-blowing literally.

[photopat]

But isn't he also effectively saying that Obama made the wrong pick? I mean, I guess there's nothing "effectively" about it...that's exactly what he's saying!


No, he's saying had Obama chosen Clinton it would have been as good of a choice, if not better. Not that the wrong choice was made, only that either would be a good choice. He's being humble and gracious to Hillary.

[John Mace]

I would say that Biden is a better pick in terms of experience, but Hillary would have been a better pick, politically. But both are good. The idea that you have to pick the absolute best person as your VP is ridiculous. There are plenty of people qualified, but you have to pick someone you can work with and who maybe, just maybe, will help you politically.

[Stephe96]

No, he's saying had Obama chosen Clinton it would have been as good of a choice, if not better. Not that the wrong choice was made, only that either would be a good choice. He's being humble and gracious to Hillary.

I get that he's being gracious and humble and what-have-you. I guess it might be better to ask whether or not this was a particularly smart thing to say. I mean, when you're being introduced everywhere you go as "the next vice-president of the United States," is it really a wise move to say that "quite frankly" there might have been better picks out there?

[XT]

Definitely getting ready to step aside. And McCain is forked and is really just going through the motions...as his pick of Palin clearly demonstrates!

Also, it was the government who brought DOWN THE TOWERS!! Oh yeah, and let's talk about those aliens...

-XT

[begbert2]

I get that he's being gracious and humble and what-have-you. I guess it might be better to ask whether or not this was a particularly smart thing to say. I mean, when you're being introduced everywhere you go as "the next vice-president of the United States," is it really a wise move to say that "quite frankly" there might have been better picks out there?Who cares? He's got the postition now; he can afford to be magnanimous about it. And he actually can't afford not to be magnanimous about it: attacking Clinton in any way would reduce his party's chance to win the election, by making him look petty and alienating Clinton-fans against him and the man who picked him for the post.

[Stephe96]

Definitely getting ready to step aside. And McCain is forked and is really just going through the motions...as his pick of Palin clearly demonstrates!

Also, it was the government who brought DOWN THE TOWERS!! Oh yeah, and let's talk about those aliens...

-XT

And don't forget Dick Cheney's hurricane machine!;)

[Huerta88]

Who cares? He's got the postition now; he can afford to be magnanimous about it. And he actually can't afford not to be magnanimous about it: attacking Clinton in any way would reduce his party's chance to win the election, by making him look petty and alienating Clinton-fans against him and the man who picked him for the post.

I suspect that this is pure reaction to the surprisingly somewhat-positive reaction to Palin. I'd imagine that the Dems (like many of us) thought (still think) the Palin pick was a gamble, a reach, an obvious pander.

Even now, I don't know if evidence is in that Palin is generating great pro-GOP buzz other than among the base, but to the extent they fear her popularity could propagate to the Dem or on-the-fence female HRC supporters (as obviously the pander was intended to do), of course Biden has to burnish his pro-woman credentials in this way. Oh, also probably not coincidental that this coincides with the "lipstick on pig" imbroglio -- for the first time, people other than hardcore HRC fanatics may be looking at BHO and wondering if he's a "sexist."

[Stephe96]

for the first time, people other than hardcore HRC fanatics may be looking at BHO and wondering if he's a "sexist."

Well, he did refer to a female reporter as "sweetie." My God, had he been a Republican that would've been the end of his campaign right there. But of course as a liberal Democrat he gets a total pass.


http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=13d1f66a-488b-46d3-9d3b-6632e0a8f1f7

[Polycarp]

My thought is that the Democrats have got to do a bit of fence-mending after the primary campaigns. Hillary has been making a point out of praising Obama -- she's kind of obliged to, to keep her party credibility alive -- and Joe Biden has always seemed to me the sort of gracious, diplomatic, humble-for-a-politician sort of guy who would say and mean something like this, and do it gladly for the sake of party unity.

I don't read it as a trial; balloon for a switch in running mates; I read it as a gesture aimed at closing ranks among Democrats for the War Against the Evil Elephant Demons. If Hillary and the V.P.-nominee are making nice-nice, Clintonites take their cue to back the party nominee and wait for her turn.

[Least Original User Name Ever]

Yeah, Biden isn't stepping aside any more than Palin is.

[Frostillicus]

Well, he did refer to a female reporter as "sweetie." My God, had he been a Republican that would've been the end of his campaign right there. But of course as a liberal Democrat he gets a total pass.


http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=13d1f66a-488b-46d3-9d3b-6632e0a8f1f7

What bizarro world are you living in, dude?

[Stephe96]

What bizarro world are you living in, dude?

One in which there are clearly double standards for conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood) and liberals (Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy). :rolleyes:

[Governor Quinn]

One in which there are clearly double standards for conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood)

Packwood was a moderate-to-liberal, and your grouping him with Thomas is a bit odd, as Packwood opposed Thomas ( cite (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=102&session=1&vote=00220))

[Captain Carrot]

One in which there are clearly double standards for conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood) and liberals (Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy). :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah, remember how Eliot Spitzer remained in office and nobody said anything, while David Vitter and Larry Craig were viciously and unceremoniously booted out of Congress?

[Voyager]

One in which there are clearly double standards for conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood) and liberals (Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy). :rolleyes:

You think what Thomas did is no worse than calling a reporter sweetie? :rolleyes:

If cheating on your wife was a disqualification from office, the Republicans would have to look for a new candidate. Remember what happened when they pulled this stunt last time? Half the Republican leadership was revealed to be messing around.

[Voyager]

I suspect that this is pure reaction to the surprisingly somewhat-positive reaction to Palin. I'd imagine that the Dems (like many of us) thought (still think) the Palin pick was a gamble, a reach, an obvious pander.

I think there is another context - the woman who was in the Democratic race was actually qualified to be president - unlike Ms. Knownothing.

[Magiver]

I think there is another context - the woman who was in the Democratic race was actually qualified to be president - unlike Ms. Knownothing. Well Governor Palin has balanced a state budget and cut spending. She's running as Vice President. Senator Obama has no executive experience at all and has spent most of his first term running for President. The Republicans have more experience with their Vice Presidential candidate than the Democrats have with their presidential candidate.

[Aquila Be]

Not a chance. I think Biden is going to kick the shit out of Palin first time they debate.
I haven't seen Palin debate but I have seen clips of Biden in action. He's as sharp as a marble.

So, Palin's worse, eh?:)

[jackdavinci]

Wow, it's weird to see someone else post this. My friend (a conservative) told me with absolute conviction that (he seemed to suggest it had something to do with the brilliance of the Sarah Palin pick) Obama's team would find some excuse for Biden to step down. Has anything like that ever happened? Even if a VP turns out not to be the ideal choice, under any circumstance other than some major scandal I would think that replacing the VP candidate would be seen as a sign of weakness and be a greater liability than keeping them.

[bdgr]

I haven't seen Palin debate but I have seen clips of Biden in action. He's as sharp as a marble.

So, Palin's worse, eh?:)

I think Biden will just fine. And yes, i think Palin is going to be worse....We'll see.

[Quartz]

I think Biden will just fine. And yes, i think Palin is going to be worse....We'll see.

When their debate comes up, there'll be massive expectations for Palin, and few for Biden. If he does as much as hold his own he'll be seen as the victor and to have popped her bubble.

[Fiddle Peghead]

Definitely getting ready to step aside. And McCain is forked and is really just going through the motions...as his pick of Palin clearly demonstrates!

Also, it was the government who brought DOWN THE TOWERS!! Oh yeah, and let's talk about those aliens...

-XT


Got any straw left?

[Fiddle Peghead]

Obama's team would find some excuse for Biden to step down. Has anything like that ever happened?

In 1972, George McGovern's first VP choice, Thomas Eagleton stepped down. Not for anything major though. Just that he'd had electroshock therapy a number of times in his past!

[Slacker]

Got any straw left?
There's a difference between straw and sarcasm.

I don't think Biden is going anywhere. What on earth would Obama have to gain by picking Hillary at this point? It would be so blatantly political it would make McCain's pick look like the most thought-out well reasoned pick in history. Think about the groups both candidates are trying to reach:

- The so called PUMAs, aka the die hard Hillary supporters. It boggles the imagination that even one of these people would vote for McCain and Pro-Rape-Babies Palin just because there's a woman on the ticket. They don't just want any woman, they want Hillary.

- The idiot voter. McCain is doing well reaching out to the idiots so far, especially with the whole "Barack called my soulmate a pig!" bullplop. If Barack wants to get the idiots back on his side, Hillary isn't going to help. They hate her, although they're not sure why. Good ol' average fella Joe is much better to appeal to them.

- The hardcore religious righty Republican. There may be some overlap with the above group and this one. These folks were iffy about McCain before, but are apparently coming out in droves now that one of their own is on the ticket. Still, there may be some mistrust with McCain, so they may not all be flooding to the polls to pull his lever. But if Hillary was on the other side, they'll be lining up weeks in advance to vote for McCain like it was a Jeff Gordon signing. There's only one thing they hate more than France and PBS, and that's Hllary Clinton.

:D

[The Tao's Revenge]

Well, he did refer to a female reporter as "sweetie." My God, had he been a Republican that would've been the end of his campaign right there. But of course as a liberal Democrat he gets a total pass.


http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=13d1f66a-488b-46d3-9d3b-6632e0a8f1f7


Obama admitted it was wrong and called up the reporter and apologized for that. Obama didn't give himself a pass and made it right.

Meanwhile see the discussion about how McCain misrepresented Obama's legislation to teach kids how to recognize sexual abuse and what to do about it as "sex ed for kindergartners". See the discussion at
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=482603. McCain would apparently prefer to enable pedophiles.

And how is McCain for "change" when he sided with Bush's incompetence 90% of the time? (percentage is from the coward McCain's own words). The fool is a flip flopper on a grand scale a 100 times worse then any perceived complaint about Kerry


You can call Democrats hypocrites, but it takes McCain the Republican to show what true hypocrisy is.

[Whack-a-Mole]

One in which there are clearly double standards for conservatives (Clarence Thomas, Bob Packwood) and liberals (Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy). :rolleyes:

Bill Clinton got a pass?

You mean the part where his peccadillo was made public and front page news for months and he was impeached by Congress? That pass? :rolleyes:

[Huerta88]

they'll be lining up weeks in advance to vote for McCain like it was a Jeff Gordon signing.

And people wonder why liberals are alleged to be elitiists.

You do understand that plenty of "hardcore religious righties" have no interest in NASCAR and may actually have read as much as you in reaching their conclusions? Or is it just more convenient to play the "I'm smart my opponent is a stupid redneck" game?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

McCain made a joke that Chelsea Clinton is "so ugly because her father is Janet Reno." Total media pass. Imagine the reaction if Obama had said it. McCain gets passes on his adultery, his wife abandonment, the Keating 5, calling his wife a cunt, his wife stealing from her own charity to support her drug habit, laughing when an audience member asked him "how do you beat the bitch?" (in reference to Hillary). Th list goes on. Obama's campaign would be destroyed for any one of those things.

[Huerta88]

McCain made a joke that Chelsea Clinton is "so ugly because her father is Janet Reno." Total media pass.

Because it was funny.

[DrDeth]

Not a chance. I think Biden is going to kick the shit out of Palin first time they debate.


I agree, that's a pretty sure bet.

[John Mace]

McCain made a joke that Chelsea Clinton is "so ugly because her father is Janet Reno." Total media pass...
First of all, it was not a "total media pass". It was reported in the AP and in the Arizona Republic, at least. It was reported in the major newspapers, although some chose not to report the exact wording of the joke. Get your facts straight. And McCain wasn't a presidential candidate then, either.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Well, he did refer to a female reporter as "sweetie." My God, had he been a Republican that would've been the end of his campaign right there. But of course as a liberal Democrat he gets a total pass.


http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=13d1f66a-488b-46d3-9d3b-6632e0a8f1f7

I blame the unrelenting lock that the left wing has on all forms of the media, including but not restricted to: Television news, cable news, radio, satellite, newspapers, magazines, movies, TV shows, billboards, smoke signals, candygrams, telephone conversations, handwritten notes stuffed into park benches, Alien messages from Betelgeuse, and the sounds I get in my head when I'm feeling stressed.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

First of all, it was not a "total media pass". It was reported in the AP and in the Arizona Republic, at least. It was reported in the major newspapers, although some chose not to report the exact wording of the joke. Get your facts straight. And McCain wasn't a presidential candidate then, either.
What difference does that make? If Obama had said the same thing in the third grade, it would be an issue now? How come the past is always relevant for Dems but never Pubs?

[Sunrazor]

I would say that Biden is a better pick in terms of experience, but Hillary would have been a better pick, politically. (snip)I don't remember which talking head it was, but before Obama announced his selection, one of the pundits said emphatically that picking Hillary would undermine Obama's entire campaign, since he'd just spent almost a year trying to convince Democrats she wasn't right for the job of president.

I haven't seen the root cause of this whole debate, but I'm assuming Biden was responding to some criticism of Clinton. It's entirely possible he really does respect her and hold her in very high regard.

[Huerta88]

What difference does that make? If Obama had said the same thing in the third grade, it would be an issue now? How come the past is always relevant for Dems but never Pubs?
AFAICT, and a bit to my surprise, Biden is getting a complete and total free pass (as in, I've not heard it mentioned and if I did not remember it from the time it happened, would not know about) on his embarrassingly stupid and embarrassing plagiarism rap.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

AFAICT, and a bit to my surprise, Biden is getting a complete and total free pass (as in, I've not heard it mentioned and if I did not remember it from the time it happened, would not know about) on his embarrassingly stupid and embarrassing plagiarism rap.
Because it was a bullshit charge.

[Huerta88]

Because it was a bullshit charge.

Is it your contention he did not lift a Kinnock speech, directly, without attribution?

ETA: Even if you think the extent of his parrotting of Kinnock's speech was not that big a deal, or that his law school plagiarism controversy doesn't matter, isn't it the case that if the media really were holding Dems to a perpetual-scrutiny standard, this would include "bullshit charges" as well as charges you acknowledge as once-legitimate?

[A shameful cracka...]

Is it your contention he did not lift a Kinnock speech, directly, without attribution?

ETA: Even if you think the extent of his parrotting of Kinnock's speech was not that big a deal, or that his law school plagiarism controversy doesn't matter, isn't it the case that if the media really were holding Dems to a perpetual-scrutiny standard, this would include "bullshit charges" as well as charges you acknowledge as once-legitimate?

He did not lift a speech whole, he quoted Kinnock, a friend of his. Every previous time he had quoted Kinnock in speeches, (which he did often) he attributed it. One time he forgot to.

It IS bullshit.

[Huerta88]

He did not lift a speech whole, he quoted Kinnock, a friend of his. Every previous time he had quoted Kinnock in speeches, (which he did often) he attributed it. One time he forgot to.

It IS bullshit.

He didn't quote Kinnock, he repeated his phrasing, substituting the word "Biden" for "Kinnock."

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Is it your contention he did not lift a Kinnock speech, directly, without attribution?
He customarily quoted a couple of lines from Kinnock and always gave attribution. The one time he forgot to give the cite, he got accused of "plagiarism." It was bullshit.
ETA: Even if you think the extent of his parrotting of Kinnock's speech was not that big a deal, or that his law school plagiarism controversy doesn't matter, isn't it the case that if the media really were holding Dems to a perpetual-scrutiny standard, this would include "bullshit charges" as well as charges you acknowledge as once-legitimate?
Palin has made Biden a non-entity in the news cycles. There's only so much time in he day.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

He didn't quote Kinnock, he repeated his phrasing, substituting the word "Biden" for "Kinnock."
And he did it dozens of times with attribution. He forgot one time.

[Euphonious Polemic]

Got any straw left?

<Inigo Montoya> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. </IM>

[PhiloVance]

Biden was being diplomatic. He is a diplomat.

Whoosh, much?

:rolleyes:

[Whack-a-Mole]

ETA: Even if you think the extent of his parrotting of Kinnock's speech was not that big a deal, or that his law school plagiarism controversy doesn't matter, isn't it the case that if the media really were holding Dems to a perpetual-scrutiny standard, this would include "bullshit charges" as well as charges you acknowledge as once-legitimate?

Oh man! I am so with the perpetual scrutiny notion for this election.

Do the Dems have a few missteps in their past? Sure.

But the Reps have SO much more juicy stuff to latch on to there!

Excellent suggestion! Here's hoping someone in the MSM picks up on it!

[Elendil's Heir]

Biden was just clumsily trying to pay Hillary a compliment, just as he clumsily tried to pay Obama a compliment earlier in the primary season, calling Obama "fresh and clean," etc., and later felt compelled to apologize. I highly doubt he'll step aside, or that Obama would even dream of asking him to.

Biden will, however, have to walk the same tightrope as GHWB did in 1984 with Geraldine Ferraro. In debating Palin, Biden can't come across as sexist or patronizing, or there'll be hell to pay. Alas, I have real doubts as to whether he can pull it off.

[Ethilrist]

I read his comments about Hillary Clinton as being focussed on her ability to perform the duties of Vice President. They both meet the minimum requirements, and she'd probably do better in the long run.

These are not the same duties as the Vice Presidential candidate, however; for Obama's purposes, she did not match up to Biden, and that's why Obama didn't pick her.

First things first: Get Elected. Then be President/VP.

[Jophiel]

Biden's second comment about Clinton being a "better" choice for VP (as opposed to whether she was qualified) seems pretty obviously to me to mean that if Clinton was in the VP slot, we wouldn't have had the Palin drama. That doesn't mean that Biden thinks Clinton would have made a better VP, just that she may have been a better pick politically.

However, Biden stepping down and Clinton coming in wouldn't "fix" the Palin thing at all and only make stuff worse.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

In an interesting aside, Bill Clinton today predicted that "...Sen. Obama will win and win pretty handily." (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D934LQA80&show_article=1)

I find that encouraging coming from a guy who can read a political landscape as well as BC can.

[Huerta88]

In an interesting aside, Bill Clinton today predicted that "...Sen. Obama will win and win pretty handily." (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D934LQA80&show_article=1)

I find that encouraging coming from a guy who can read a political landscape as well as BC can.
Yes, but he also thought until very late in the game that his missus was a mortal lock and destiny's candidate.

(Disclosure: I think BHO will likely win).

[gurujulp]

What a shock. Joe Biden is an absolute idiot who, on the same day he asked a wheelchair-bound state senator to stand up for a round of applause, is now admitting: "Make no mistake about this," Biden responded. "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America. Let’s get that straight. She’s a truly close personal friend, she is qualified to be president of the United States of America, she’s easily qualified to be vice president of the United States of America and quite frankly it might have been a better pick than me. But she’s first rate, I mean that sincerely, she’s first rate, so let’s get that straight."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/biden-hillary-a.html

The Obama camp has got to be in a panic ever since they were blindsided by Sarah Palin's popularity, but is there a chance that they might be laying the groundwork for Biden to step aside to make way for Hillary? If so, this would be a rather clumsy way of going about it. I realize they only have 7 weeks or so, but wouldn't "health reasons" really be the way to go here? Then Barack could "with sincere regret and reluctance" accept Biden's resignation to allow Hillary to step in. At least that way there would always be some doubt as to whether it was intentional or not. To float a trial balloon like this (if that's what this is) will only serve to make Obama appear to be an indecisive buffoon who royally screwed up his first major decision as a presidential candidate.

But would Hillary's popularity be enough to counter that?

slight hijack\

Just remember Quayle- the only reason the VP's are getting this much media is that if Obama HAD picked HRC, that would have been the extreme coup. Nothing these relative nobodies say has any real relevance. I shudder to think what woudl have happened with Quayle as pres even more than I do thinking of Palin- and she scares the shit out of me.

But I think that BHO made a grave error in not selecting HRC- I will still vote for him- and this marks only the second time I have voted Dem for pres - usually Lib or independant- but I think he underrates the racism among white midwesterners.

I grew up in Iowa and had no idea it was racist - there was no one around to comment on... all white folks. I thought the 'n' word was the same as thee and thou- old hat, and no longer in parlance.

I moved back when I was 18 and it was nigger this and that, and the only non white people in town was a single mexican woman who had married into a town family...

I am scared that the evil death-zombie and the fun crazy party gun lady are gonna win the election. I want him as my grand-dad who I never see and her as my date to the prom- but I don't want either in the WH...

/hijack

[gurujulp]

Well Governor Palin has balanced a state budget and cut spending. She's running as Vice President. Senator Obama has no executive experience at all and has spent most of his first term running for President. The Republicans have more experience with their Vice Presidential candidate than the Democrats have with their presidential candidate.

Uhmmm- as no one else has said it- she didn't have to balance a budget- Alaska was running a surplus and she cut her own salary because she didn't need it...

[gurujulp]

Wow, it's weird to see someone else post this. My friend (a conservative) told me with absolute conviction that (he seemed to suggest it had something to do with the brilliance of the Sarah Palin pick) Obama's team would find some excuse for Biden to step down. Has anything like that ever happened? Even if a VP turns out not to be the ideal choice, under any circumstance other than some major scandal I would think that replacing the VP candidate would be seen as a sign of weakness and be a greater liability than keeping them.

Does anyone else wish they had lived in the days when the secondary loser was VP? I would love to see an Obama/McCain White House- I think that might actually be a world regaining reign...

Sorry for the triple post- I will shut up for a while...

[lisacurl]

Not a chance. I think Biden is going to kick the shit out of Palin first time they debate.All she has to do is let her eyes strategically fill with tears. That's all I'm saying.

[Marley23]

Whoosh, much?
No, actually, I don't think I was whooshed unless you're suggesting the OP did not mean his words to be taken literally. I think he did.

[initech]

Not a chance. I think Biden is going to kick the shit out of Palin first time they debate.

Debates aren't won by the side that makes the best argument or gives the best performance. They're won by the candidate who performs best against expectations. All this "Biden will kick Palin's ass" talk sets up his almost-guaranteed failure.

My sincere prediction: she'll be racked up as woefully unprepared, up against a fierce debater. She'll lay down a few drawly zingers and be declared the winner. She's being graded on a steep curve. For precedent, see: RNC speech.

[initech]

--

[DrDeth]

Debates aren't won by the side that makes the best argument or gives the best performance. They're won by the candidate who performs best against expectations. All this "Biden will kick Palin's ass" talk sets up his almost-guaranteed failure.

My sincere prediction: she'll be racked up as woefully unprepared, up against a fierce debater. She'll lay down a few drawly zingers and be declared the winner. She's being graded on a steep curve. For precedent, see: RNC speech.

Hmm, you make a good point. Biden will clean Palin's clock, but she may win a moral victory, due to low expectations. Gore vs Bush is an example.

[Frank]

And he did it dozens of times with attribution. He forgot one time.
I'm fairly skeptical of that claim. He attributed it dozens of times and just happened to forget the one time he was being recorded. Yeah, right.

I wish Obama hadn't picked him. But, on the bright side, it was years ago and probably the rubber is off the tires by now.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Hmm, you make a good point. Biden will clean Palin's clock, but she may win a moral victory, due to low expectations. Gore vs Bush is an example.
Yeah, W. always got awarded an upset victory just for not drooling on his tie. I saw Biden a few days ago talking about how tough and sharp he expected Palin to be and how he wasn't sure he'd be able to beat her. That's what he needs to do. They can't let Rove pull his normal "expectations" manipulation.

[Stephe96]

In an interesting aside, Bill Clinton today predicted that "...Sen. Obama will win and win pretty handily." (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D934LQA80&show_article=1)

I find that encouraging coming from a guy who can read a political landscape as well as BC can.

Ha ha ha! A Bill Clinton endorsement is more than likely a political kiss-of-death. To wit:

Al Gore
John Kerry
Gray Davis
Jeanne Shaheen
Kathleen Kennedy Townsend
Jim Guy Tucker
Janet Reno
David Dinkins (for NYC Mayor)
Mark Green (for NYC Mayor)
Frenando Ferrer (for NYC Mayor)
Erskine Bowles
Max Cleland
Walter Mondale (for Senator of Minnesota)
Christopher John (for Senator of Louisianna)
Jeanne Carnahan (for Senator of Missouri)
Ned Lamont
Tom Daschle
Hillary Clinton

Not a winner in the bunch!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The point was not that it was an endorsement but that it was a prediction. Those are two different things. Bill Clinton can read an electorate like Peyton Manning can read a cover two defense. He did kick your asses twice, you know.

[Huerta88]

The point was not that it was an endorsement but that it was a prediction. Those are two different things. Bill Clinton can read an electorate like Peyton Manning can read a cover two defense.
Last time he predicted someone would win the Presidency, "by a pretty good margin" no less -- how did that forecasting acumen work out, again?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3699752

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Last time he predicted someone would win the Presidency, "by a pretty good margin" no less -- how did that forecasting acumen work out, again?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3699752
That's his wife. He also has to tell her her ass doesn't look fat in those pants suits.

[Magiver]

Uhmmm- as no one else has said it- she didn't have to balance a budget- Alaska was running a surplus and she cut her own salary because she didn't need it... Returning money you don't need versus spending money you don't have.

A lot of households can relate to working within a budget.

[John Mace]

What difference does that make? If Obama had said the same thing in the third grade, it would be an issue now?
Well, that's what we call speculation, not fact. But couldn't it just be that many of the news outlets were reticent to publish the specifics about a inappropriate joke about the President's daughter rather than trying to protect McCain? At any rate, your characterization of this as the media giving McCain a pass is factually incorrect.

How come the past is always relevant for Dems but never Pubs?

It's called confirmation bias.

[foolsguinea]

I would say that Biden is a better pick in terms of experience, but Hillary would have been a better pick, politically. But both are good. The idea that you have to pick the absolute best person as your VP is ridiculous. There are plenty of people qualified, but you have to pick someone you can work with and who maybe, just maybe, will help you politically.NOOOO! Don't you know that the POTUS & VPOTUS have to be perrfect!??? All this humility & "one is as good as another" is UNAMERICAN!!!
[/sarcasm]

Yeah, what they said.

[j666]

Biden made a ham-handed response to Palin praising Hilarity Clinton for cracking the glass-ceiling for her. It was moderately less insulting and condescending picking Palin as a running mate.

Biden step down for Hilary Clinton? So Obama doesn't really want the Presidency after all?

Obama, as most people have noticed, is Black. He needs a straight white male running mate, preferably one with Southern appeal and little reputation as an intellectual.

He also needs someone willing to eviscerate Palin in debate, with both style and substance.
The hardcore religious righty Republican. ... There's only one thing they hate more than France and PBS, and that's Hllary Clinton.

I am so stealing that line.

[ArizonaTeach]

So, first he calls Obama's "McCain won't email" ad "terrible" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/22/eveningnews/main4470063.shtml), and then claims that, oopsie, he's never actually seen the ad (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/22/biden_walks_back_comment_on_te.html). Then, he gets smacked down by Obama (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-on-bidens.html) for his comments on the bailout (although Obama gets all evasive when this is pointed out). Then he goes and contradicts Obama's (and his platform's) position on coal (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Biden_No_coal_plants_here_in_America.html?showall).

If they're trying to set something up, it's working.

[DigitalC]

So, first he calls Obama's "McCain won't email" ad "terrible" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/22/eveningnews/main4470063.shtml), and then claims that, oopsie, he's never actually seen the ad (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/22/biden_walks_back_comment_on_te.html). Then, he gets smacked down by Obama (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-on-bidens.html) for his comments on the bailout (although Obama gets all evasive when this is pointed out). Then he goes and contradicts Obama's (and his platform's) position on coal (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Biden_No_coal_plants_here_in_America.html?showall).

If they're trying to set something up, it's working.

To quote Chris Rock "that tiger didn't go crazy, that tiger went tiger!". Basically, thats just Biden being Biden.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Nothing is being "set up." It proves that Obama showed good judgement in picking someone who isn't just going to be a bobblehead doll all the time.

[stolichnaya]

I think that's just what happens when your vice presidential nominee, you know, talks to the press, and, well, is trusted by the campaign to expound on issues of the day, off the top of his head.

[Marley23]

Everybody noted weeks ago that Biden tends to speak without thinking. They were right, and he's lucky there's bigger news out there at the moment.

[Shayna]

So, first he calls Obama's "McCain won't email" ad "terrible" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/22/eveningnews/main4470063.shtml), and then claims that, oopsie, he's never actually seen the ad (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/22/biden_walks_back_comment_on_te.html). Then, he gets smacked down by Obama (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-on-bidens.html) for his comments on the bailout (although Obama gets all evasive when this is pointed out). Then he goes and contradicts Obama's (and his platform's) position on coal (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Biden_No_coal_plants_here_in_America.html?showall).

If they're trying to set something up, it's working. Please. First of all, that was hardly a smack down by Obama. Second of all, you've either forgotten, or you haven't been paying attention. Obama has insisted he does not want a yes-man to join him in Washington.

He told the New York Times, “I want somebody who’s independent, somebody who can push against my preconceived notions and challenge me so we have got a robust debate in the White House.”

http://www.scoop08.com/what-selection-joe-biden-means-barack-obama-0

[ArizonaTeach]

Well, at least he probably knows how many states there are, even if he doesn't know his Presidents. (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/128960.html)

[stolichnaya]

Now that is funny. It reminds me of Drunk History.

[Marley23]

Someone should ask Biden what we did when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

[XT]

Someone should ask Biden what we did when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

:confused: I thought it was the US Government that bombed Pearl Harbor? Wasn't it the then President, Teddy Roosevelt that was in on the plot? To be sure, it was the Germans who dropped the bombs, but that was just a cover story...

-XT

[BrainGlutton]

Someone should ask Biden what we did when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

That was the Jews, dammit! Remember?! "Torah, Torah, Torah!"

[carnivorousplant]

but I think he underrates the racism among white midwesterners.Agreed.


and her as my date to the prom- You're a brave man. You'd probably catch something.:)

[Ají de Gallina]

To quote Chris Rock "that tiger didn't go crazy, that tiger went tiger!". Basically, thats just Biden being Biden.


Man...too funny.
Thanks a million, I needed a good laugh in this thread.

[Sam Stone]

Biden: The gift that keeps on giving.

How in hell did Obama pick him, anyway? Did he lose a bet? Did he not notice that every time Biden tried to take his campaign national and run for president he wound up doing an early exit after getting zero traction?

Can you imagine if Palin had said that FDR went on TV in 1929? There would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how it 'proved' how stupid she is. But because it's old crazy Joe, everyone just looks the other way and smiles and says, "oh, that's our Joe!"

And it's not like this is an isolated case. When the spotlight is on Biden, he manages to stick his foot in his mouth just about every day.

And he's qualified to be President?

[Magiver]

That and Biden got caught up in the whole messiah thing when he tried to heal Senator Chuck Graham.

Joe, you've got to walk first (on water) before you can run (for Vice President).

[Merkwurdigliebe]

Well Governor Palin has balanced a state budget and cut spending. She's running as Vice President. Senator Obama has no executive experience at all and has spent most of his first term running for President. The Republicans have more experience with their Vice Presidential candidate than the Democrats have with their presidential candidate.

I'm going to make it my personal mission to destroy this stupid argument each and every time I see it. You are discrediting Obama for the time he has spent running for President while in the Senate, effectively saying his experience since running doesn't count.

Obama's executive experience? I dunno hasn't he run a national campaign for president for the last 1.5 years? I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.

Biden's not going anywhere. There would have to be a VASTLY better choice to justify him dropping out, and there simply isn't anyone that much better. Plus Obama's ahead. Even if he were sick I imagine that he'd stay in for the sake of the ticket.

Where are people getting these rumors from? Biden isn't perfect, but certainly not a drag on the ticket.

[Magiver]

I'm going to make it my personal mission to destroy this stupid argument each and every time I see it. You are discrediting Obama for the time he has spent running for President while in the Senate, effectively saying his experience since running doesn't count.

Obama's executive experience? I dunno hasn't he run a national campaign for president for the last 1.5 years? I don't think that's anything to sneeze at. You're equating running for office as a resume’ builder for the actual office? Baffling but OK. Palin ran for Governor, successfully. Add that to her resume'.

Biden's not going anywhere. There would have to be a VASTLY better choice to justify him dropping out, If I didn’t want him to stay on the ticket I’d suggest TBA. what was Obama thinking when he chose a running mate (because of his experience) who repeatedly said Obama was not ready for the job. Essentially, Obama validated Biden's opinion of him.

[Sam Stone]

I'm going to make it my personal mission to destroy this stupid argument each and every time I see it. You are discrediting Obama for the time he has spent running for President while in the Senate, effectively saying his experience since running doesn't count.

Obama's executive experience? I dunno hasn't he run a national campaign for president for the last 1.5 years? I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.

Look, I know this is a 'talking point' for your side, but it's asinine. Obama's qualified to be president because... he's running for President. That means everyone who runs for president is qualified, right? A presidential campaign is nothing like real executive experience. For one thing, he's got campaign managers to do the heavy lifting for him. For another, it's a very different thing to be the head of a group that has one goal in mind - pleasing you and helping you achieve what you want - and running a Presidency where you're surrounded by enemies and people with their own axes to grind, and you have to find a way to work with the other side of the aisle while not pissing off your own constituents.

Oh, wait - it's not just that he's running, but that's run a flawless campaign, right? Except that he hasn't. Obama got lucky - Hillary chose not to oppose him in the caucus states, and he built up a huge electoral lead. But when it came to the big primaries, he couldn't beat her. Had it not been for those early wins in the small caucus states, Obama wouldn't even be on the ticket.

Then there's the fact that he's out-spent McCain 2-1 in a year when the Democrats have all the natural advantages, and hasn't managed to pull away from him.

Then there was his strategic miscalculation to not seek federal election financing. Now he has to split his time between campaigning and raising money. And his horrible decision to pick Biden for the Vice Presidency rather than Hillary.

Then there was the fact that Obama was totally caught off-guard by the Palin pick, even though Republicans have been pushing her for almost a year, and she's been on McCain's shortlist for 8 months. He had no advance planning in place for her pick, and let McCain and Palin grab the spotlight and race ahead of him in the polls. If he didn't have the media carrying water for him, he could have been finished right there.

Then there's that 50-state strategy. Which is now no longer a 50 state strategy because he realized that he stretched himself to thin.

And how about that Obama faux-presidential seal? That sure was a good plan. And the greek columns and the 70,000 seat stadium, all which played into the narrative of him being all hat and no cattle.

The result of all this is that Democratic insiders are grumbling about him taking an easy 'gimme' election for Democrats and screwing it up so badly that he'll have to fight tooth and nail to win against a 70 year old Senator and a woman from Alaska.

Sorry, but if this is your idea of the kind of sound judgment and planning that qualifies Obama to be President, you should re-think that a little.

[leander]

Look, I know this is a 'talking point' for your side, but it's asinine. Obama's qualified to be president because... he's running for President. That means everyone who runs for president is qualified, right? A presidential campaign is nothing like real executive experience. For one thing, he's got campaign managers to do the heavy lifting for him. For another, it's a very different thing to be the head of a group that has one goal in mind - pleasing you and helping you achieve what you want - and running a Presidency where you're surrounded by enemies and people with their own axes to grind, and you have to find a way to work with the other side of the aisle while not pissing off your own constituents.

Oh, wait - it's not just that he's running, but that's run a flawless campaign, right? Except that he hasn't. Obama got lucky - Hillary chose not to oppose him in the caucus states, and he built up a huge electoral lead. But when it came to the big primaries, he couldn't beat her. Had it not been for those early wins in the small caucus states, Obama wouldn't even be on the ticket.

Then there's the fact that he's out-spent McCain 2-1 in a year when the Democrats have all the natural advantages, and hasn't managed to pull away from him.

Then there was his strategic miscalculation to not seek federal election financing. Now he has to split his time between campaigning and raising money. And his horrible decision to pick Biden for the Vice Presidency rather than Hillary.

Then there was the fact that Obama was totally caught off-guard by the Palin pick, even though Republicans have been pushing her for almost a year, and she's been on McCain's shortlist for 8 months. He had no advance planning in place for her pick, and let McCain and Palin grab the spotlight and race ahead of him in the polls. If he didn't have the media carrying water for him, he could have been finished right there.

Then there's that 50-state strategy. Which is now no longer a 50 state strategy because he realized that he stretched himself to thin.

And how about that Obama faux-presidential seal? That sure was a good plan. And the greek columns and the 70,000 seat stadium, all which played into the narrative of him being all hat and no cattle.

The result of all this is that Democratic insiders are grumbling about him taking an easy 'gimme' election for Democrats and screwing it up so badly that he'll have to fight tooth and nail to win against a 70 year old Senator and a woman from Alaska.

Sorry, but if this is your idea of the kind of sound judgment and planning that qualifies Obama to be President, you should re-think that a little.

I think you're showing your true colours here a bit too overtly, Sam (in case anyone was fooled previously).

[rocking chair]

All she has to do is let her eyes strategically fill with tears. That's all I'm saying.

oh, goodness, that could go either way. if it is a "i get teared up over my country" thing like sen. clinton, it could work. if it is a "i'm losing" or "joe is mean" thing... big backfire.

there's no crying in debates!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

"Caught off guard by the Palin pick?"

I guess if you mean that Obama had probably overestimated McCain's judgement and was taken mildly by surprise that he would do something that stupid, I agree with you.

[Sam Stone]

I think you're showing your true colours here a bit too overtly, Sam (in case anyone was fooled previously).

I'll be happy to attack any equally unserious claims about McCain.

[aldiboronti]

"Caught off guard by the Palin pick?"

I guess if you mean that Obama had probably overestimated McCain's judgement and was taken mildly by surprise that he would do something that stupid, I agree with you.

Whereas Biden, of course, was a masterstroke.

[Jack Batty]

Whereas Biden, of course, was a masterstroke.

You're right!

He should have picked a small state Democratic govenor who no one has ever heard of whose only previous experience was in small town local politics.


Obama/Baldacci - 08!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Is Palin really helping? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303667_pf.html)
Over the past two weeks, the percentage of independents with favorable views of Palin dropped from 60 percent to 48 percent. Among independent women, the decline was particularly sharp, going from 65 percent to 43 percent. Her favorable rating among whites without college degrees remained largely steady, but among those with college degrees, it dropped nearly 20 percentage points.
Obama is now leading McCain by 9 points in in the WaPo/ABC poll out this morning and his RCP average (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html) is now trending higher than it was before the conventions. McCain's convention bounce is gone, and the bloom is off the Palin rose for good. Obviously, the economic crisis is hurting McCain, but he did himself no favors by stunt casting a running mate for cynically calculated political purposes rather than useful qualifications. If he'd taken Romney, he'd at least have somebody who could go out and talk to the press about the crisis instead of having to hide Palin from anybody with a microphone.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Whereas Biden, of course, was a masterstroke.
Biden was a mature and responsible choice. He's also still a net political asset. No one is going to change their vote because Bidn has an occasional disagreement with Obama.

Palin disagrees with McCain on a few things too, you know. ANWR and Global Warming, for instance.

[aldiboronti]

It's not just the disagreements. Biden flops about more than a dying fish.

Biden, a Delaware senator, declared last week the federal government should not have floated the American International Group an $85 billion lifeline.

Obama said the feds had no choice and hit John McCain for opposing the AIG rescue one day, then backing it the next.

Tuesday, Obama had to deal with fallout from Biden doing a similar dipsy-doodle, first denouncing then agreeing with McCain.


In a CBS interview Monday, Biden called one of his own campaign ads "terrible" for mocking McCain's lack of e-mail ability. Biden later said it was okay.

Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/09/23/2008-09-23_barack_obama_tells_running_mate_joe_bide.html?print=1&page=all)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It's not just the disagreements. Biden flops about more than a dying fish.



Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/09/23/2008-09-23_barack_obama_tells_running_mate_joe_bide.html?print=1&page=all)
There's no flip flops there. just disagreements. Who gives a shit? Read the polls, dude. Nobody cares abiut this stuff. They're more converned about their homes, their jobs, their 401K's and the price of gas. No one is going to base their vote on what Joe Biden thought of a pefectly fair political ad.

[Merkwurdigliebe]

Look Sam,

The problem is that it isn't a ridiculous argument. Either you give him credit for being a Senator, or you give him credit for what he's been doing that nullifies his experience as Senator. When you argue that he started running for President only two years after being Senator, you're in effect saying he has two years experience in the Senate. I can buy that only if you also give him credit for doing what he's been doing. What you guys are suggesting is that after he started running for President, his experience is the same as if he were to sit at home watching TV. You can't have it both ways, man.



Look, I know this is a 'talking point' for your side, but it's asinine. Obama's qualified to be president because... he's running for President. That means everyone who runs for president is qualified, right? A presidential campaign is nothing like real executive experience.


Not everyone who runs for President is qualified by the fact that they are running. I'd say that Obama passed this threshold somewhere in March when shit really got ugly. Up until then I'd say that you might have a point. You can't compare Obama's campaign with Mike Gravel. Obama's built something enormous, which I think is even more attractive. He didn't just take over some organization, he BUILT it.


For one thing, he's got campaign managers to do the heavy lifting for him.


President's don't have aides? What are you talking about. The President has more people to do heavy lifting for him than any other position in the world!


For another, it's a very different thing to be the head of a group that has one goal in mind - pleasing you and helping you achieve what you want - and running a Presidency where you're surrounded by enemies and people with their own axes to grind, and you have to find a way to work with the other side of the aisle while not pissing off your own constituents.


Man, I just can't even address how wrong you are about this stuff. Obama's campaign appears to be an easy one to run only because he's too damn smart to let it be otherwise. You need to go and research what went on in Hillary's campaign. It was nothing short of constant back-stabbing after she lost Iowa. Remember Mark Penn and those guys? Mark Penn is the definition of a guy with his own axe to grind. Obama happens to know how to get past that bullshit.

You don't think being the leader of a campaign organization with thousands of employees ( and even more volunteers ) spread across every single state is not executive experience? At the end of this he'll have executive experience on the order of what Sarah Palin has from that alone.

Sarah Palin doesn't get credit because she jumped in the race. John McCain does. What I think is really telling is you guys are really forcing the issue with her, saying that she has more experience than Obama. But luckily the people aren't buying it. Palin's approval ratings are going down, down, down.

I think Obama's victory is very telling of how good he is. I think it's so hilarious how you guys on the right say that he'd be so horrible in X, Y, and Z when the fact of the matter is that he's already a scary good politician. He's beating McCain despite being black in a country where racism still matters.


Then there was the fact that Obama was totally caught off-guard by the Palin pick, even though Republicans have been pushing her for almost a year, and she's been on McCain's shortlist for 8 months. He had no advance planning in place for her pick, and let McCain and Palin grab the spotlight and race ahead of him in the polls. If he didn't have the media carrying water for him, he could have been finished right there.


No, Obama most likely heard of it and dismissed it as too reckless and irresponsible for someone of John McCain's integrity. I would have done the same. Palin isn't exactly turning out to be helping either. She may be a hit the places she goes, but she's not winning over any votes that McCain really needs.


Then there's that 50-state strategy. Which is now no longer a 50 state strategy because he realized that he stretched himself to thin.


I don't see how this is a negative. So should he have not tried to open up any states at all? Should he continue to work on every single state instead of the select few he thinks he can flip? The 50 state strategy isn't a failure just because he won't win EVERY state. I think it's a pretty good strategy as it has yielded VA and NC and CO and possibly NV as new "swing states." The point is that if Obama wins the Kerry states plus NM, which is very likely unless some shit goes bad, he'll have a choice of five or so states to flip over instead of the usual Ohio or Florida. I think the 50 state strategy has worked EXACTLY as planned.



And how about that Obama faux-presidential seal? That sure was a good plan. And the greek columns and the 70,000 seat stadium, all which played into the narrative of him being all hat and no cattle.

The result of all this is that Democratic insiders are grumbling about him taking an easy 'gimme' election for Democrats and screwing it up so badly that he'll have to fight tooth and nail to win against a 70 year old Senator and a woman from Alaska.


I don't really know what you're talking about here at the end. Just because a bunch of chicken littles like to fret and run around (Republicans certainly have more discipline in their ranks) doesn't mean that Obama A) gives a shit or B) listens to them.

You want to know how Obama's going to win this? I'll tell you how and it all goes back to his history as a community organizer . What is Obama focusing on? Is he focusing on BS campaign back and forth? Maybe, but guess what his army of paid workers and volunteers is doing? They are out there registering voters. The advantage Democrats have in some states now is staggering. This is what's going to win him the election. He uses his inspirational BS to motivate people to go and work for him. They register voters. That is why he's going to win, my friends.

This is why I get so angry in these threads, btw. It's because people on the right simply can't admit that Obama has ever done anything competent in his life ever. Why does it have to be so all or nothing with you guys? Aren't we at the SDMB? Shouldn't the call to fight ignorance take first priority? For the record, I think McCain (and especially before he ran for Presidency this time) isn't a bad choice. I don't really think he should be President in light of the options we have this time around, but I don't argue that he's fundamentally disqualified for some reason or another. I think his pick of Palin was probably a necessary gamble (his campaign was going nowhere) which looks to not be paying off. The right-wing love her, but he's really turning off independents with his selection of her.

So that's it for now.

[aldiboronti]

There's no flip flops there. just disagreements. Who gives a shit? Read the polls, dude. Nobody cares abiut this stuff. They're more converned about their homes, their jobs, their 401K's and the price of gas. No one is going to base their vote on what Joe Biden thought of a pefectly fair political ad.

If nobody cares about this stuff, why all the posts from you about McClean/Palin disagreements/flipflops/gaffes? That's a little puzzling.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

If nobody cares about this stuff, why all the posts from you about McClean/Palin disagreements/flipflops/gaffes? That's a little puzzling.
All what posts from me about that stuff?

[aldiboronti]

All what posts from me about that stuff?

You have to be kidding. OK, I'll be back with some.

[Hazle Weatherfield]

Is anyone even trying to answer the OP anymore? Shouldn't someone just start a new thread?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

You have to be kidding. OK, I'll be back with some.
I think I'll be waiting a while.

[Merijeek]

Whereas Biden, of course, was a masterstroke.

Boring and predictable, actually. I was hoping for something more interesting, but instead we get a guy who was on short lists from the start.

I just hope we see some of the Biden-as-attack-dog everyone was expecting, rather than the 'seems like missing in action' guy we've been getting.

-Joe

[aldiboronti]

I think I'll be waiting a while.

Actually you're right. Only two posts could qualify out of your last 750, and they're pretty mild at that.


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10190482#post10190482

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10219399#post10219399

I owe you an apology.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Actually you're right. Only two posts could qualify out of your last 750, and they're pretty mild at that.


http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10190482#post10190482

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10219399#post10219399

I owe you an apology.
Accepted. I'm a pretty hyperbolic and opinionated poster, so I can see why you would have made that assumption. I generally don't sweat small shit like that, though -- at least not on offense.

[gonzomax]

This thread is dead. There are 40 some days to the election. Nothing will happen.

[Elendil's Heir]

This thread is dead. There are 40 some days to the election. Nothing will happen.

... at least, as to dumping Biden, I presume you mean? A whole lot could happen in the campaign itself, of course. Or have I been whooshed?

[XT]

Maybe now that it's come out that he ALSO supported the Bridge to Nowhere(tm) he'll step down, ehe? :p

-XT

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Maybe now that it's come out that he ALSO supported the Bridge to Nowhere(tm) he'll step down, ehe?
Did he lie through his teeth about it like Palin has?

[XT]

Don't know...my guess is that only he could answer that question. Anyone else attempting to do so would be putting a partisan spin on things...such as you just did. I just thought it was amusing, that's all.

BTW, I don't REALLY think he's going to quit...I was just saying that tongue in cheek.

-XT

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Don't know...my guess is that only he could answer that question.
I don't think you understood the question. Let me clarify. Sarah Palin stood up at the Republican Convention and claimed that she said "thanks but no thanks to the Bridge to Nowhere," and that she never accepted any earmarks as Governor of Alaska. Both of those statements were lies.

Has Joe Biden ever publicly DENIED having supported (albeit indirectly) the BTN?

Incidentally, Biden voted for a larger funding bill which contained the BTN earmark, but he did not support it champion that earmark specifically. Palin very specifically sought money for it, only stpped when it became a politocal liability and never returned the money.

[XT]

I understood fine. Though you tell me in breathless tones that a politician stood up during a convention speech and lied, I am unmoved by this earth shattering revelation.

As for Biden, I don't really care to be honest, one way or the other...if he knew it was a boondoggle and voted for it anyway, or if he voted and didn't really read the fine print...well, it's all the same to me either way.

-XT

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I'm just trying to argue the point that the criticism against Palin is not her per se support of the BTN, but that she has been dishonest about it.

[XT]

Sure, I buy that she is dishonest...she is a politician after all. I ASSUME she is dishonest.

-XT

[ITR champion]

Wow. I knew the Republicans were desperate, but until I read this thread I never knew how desperate. No wonder McCain wants to have the debate cancelled.