View Full Version : A Muslim who doesn't know what the hadith are?
11-27-2000, 07:12 PM
Is there any denomination in Islam that does not recognize the hadith? I'm talking about the hadith as a whole, not just the demonstrably false ones. I'm in an argument with a self-proclaimed Muslim who wants to kick my ass (at least that's what he says online) on another board; he says he's never heard of the term "hadith" and has no idea what I'm talking about. I think I might be getting my chain yanked.
11-27-2000, 07:57 PM
I'm not a Muslim, but I play one on TV... no, actually, I don't...but still, it sounded good..
Seriously, I've spoken with a fundamentalist Muslim for a while now... he's a good person, and he's easy to talk to.
AFAIK, from what he's said, it sounds like the Hadith are mandatory... you are supposed to know some, as they are the laws by which you are supposed to live.
If he's really hard core, ask him why the bombing of school busses should be Haram (I know I misspelled that.. the word that means 'wrong, forbidden').
It sounds like someone is posing.
Stump him on Trivia... the difference between Shi and Suni, questions about the Hajj.... etc...
11-27-2000, 09:31 PM
Sure, just like you can be a Christian without ever having heard of the Epistles or the Acts of the Apostles. Not terribly likely, and damn near impossible if you claim to be a devout, practising Christian, but not technically impossible.
It is my understanding that, in order to "officially" be a Muslim, all you need do is profess the faith ("There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is His prophet") three times in front of witnesses. And since it is possible to say those words without knowing anything else about the faith, then yes, I guess it is possible -- though not terribly likely -- for an adult Muslim to claim ignorance of the hadith.
True story -- I have a friend, born and raised Christian, who did not recognize nor remember the story of Abraham and Isaac when I happened to mention it one day. She simply didn't pay a lot of attention during Sunday school, and hasn't actively practised in years.
There are Christian denominations which baptize infants -- claiming their souls for Jesus, regardless of whether the tyke ever grows up to learn anything about the faith.
So a Muslim who is ignorant of the hadith is probably, at best, not terribly devout, and not actively practising.
11-28-2000, 02:58 AM
Yeah, I've already posted the analogy of the Epistles in the debate, as well as a short quiz including such trivia as the functon of the mihrab. I have a feeling, though, that it's gonna make a sonic boom as it goes over his head. I'll post some excerpts once I get on a machine other than my GF's WebTV... though that might run the risk of having this thread banished to the cold, windswept steppes of GD or MPSIMS. Funny thing is, I'm the administrator of the board that he's been threatening to hit me with a brick on, and I don't think he realizes it. Not to mention the fact that I'm pals with the son of the principal of his school (cred repair: mostly because of drugs & music).
11-28-2000, 04:36 AM
Ask him to recite the 99 beautiful names of God.
11-29-2000, 12:14 AM
An informal poll of my Muslim friends reveals they are deeply suspect of an adult Muslim who claims to have never heard of the hadith. They think he's putting you on, is not really a Muslim, and can be easily found out by quizzing him in any of the manners thus far suggested. Don't know if you want to go that far, or just cut your losses and ignore this loser.
11-29-2000, 01:22 AM
To be a muslim you must pray 5 times a day. If you do not then you will not be muslim for that day. If for some reason you cant read it you have to make it up by reading the roqo before the next namaz. BTW this is the month of ramadhan and the muslims should be fasting right?
11-29-2000, 01:47 AM
There is, of course, a great difference between Muslims and Black Muslims (the Nation of Islam). The latter is a cult which has about as much to do with orthodox Islam as the Branch Davidians had to do with the Roman Catholic Church. Among the beliefs of the NOI are the absolute supremacy of the black race and the deity of their founder, W.D. Fard.
If black45's correspondant is a Black Muslim it is not surprising that he would be ignorant of most aspects of orthodox Islam.
The Religious Movements Homepage has an excelent page (http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Nofislam.html) about Black Muslims, which I found by searching Yahoo. It describes their history and belifs in detail, and explains where these differ from Islam.
PS--There are, of course, plenty of orthodox Muslims who happen to be black.
Earl Snake-Hips Tucker
11-29-2000, 09:16 AM
And I think it's been pretty well answered already, so just to add some levity:
What did the Iranian say to the Iraqi?
You ain't Shi'ite.
(Ha Ha Ha)
11-29-2000, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by black455
Is there any denomination in Islam that does not recognize the hadith? I'm talking about the hadith as a whole, not just the demonstrably false ones.
Surprisingly, there actually appears to be at least one segment of Dar al-Islam (The House of Islam, referring to all adherents of the religion) which dismisses both the Hadith and the Sunna. They also state flatly that there's two additional verses (Sura 9:128-129) which have been added to the Quran and that their first leader, "the Messenger of the Covenant," followed Muhammed, and was martyred in 1990 AD. This dude's name was Dr. Rashad Khalifa. The segment/denomination, if you will, is called "Universal Unity," "International Community of Submitters," "United Submitters INternational Society," and (possibly just an adjunct) "The Quran Society."
I'm in an argument with a self-proclaimed Muslim who wants to kick my ass (at least that's what he says online) on another board; he says he's never heard of the term "hadith" and has no idea what I'm talking about. I think I might be getting my chain yanked.
Well, I can venture that if he's a recent convert and to the group above, then he might have heard of Hadith and Sunna, but not been taught any of them, given the group's stance on them.
Said stance is taken from their "authorized" publication of "Quran, the Final Testament (Revised Edtion" (ISBN 09623622-2-0):
"Appendix 19: Hadith and Sunna: Satanic Innovations"
Kind of a way to make friends and influence people in any predominantly Islamic place, huh?
The rest of the appendices (there are 19 total) in said tome dwell on "mathematical proofs" of the Quran. Kind of reminds you of the Bible Code, doesn't it?
11-29-2000, 11:17 PM
Turns out that he's just some dumb kid with a NOI dad who split on his mom when he was a wee one. He's never picked up the Qur'an in his life. That really took the wind outta my sails. Now I almost feel sorry for him. Well, hell...
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