All things spelling, grammar, and word use

[Cisco]

A lot of threads get hijacked for spelling, grammar, word use, and definitions. Let it all out here instead.


Man can mean a male or a female. As in a member of mankind, or a woman. The first definition of man is an individual human; no note on sex. Another definition is the individual who can fulfill or who has been chosen to fulfill one's requirements, with the example <she's your man>.

A female actor is an actor. Yes, actress is a word, but it's redundant. An actor is a person who acts, not a male who acts. In my Webster's Unabridged, in the section advising how to avoid sexism in your writing, it specifically says "instead of actress, use actor."

Jive is slang or music. When things agree, they jibe.

It's is it is and nothing else. It is not the possessive form of it. That never made sense to me until someone pointed out that we don't use an apostrophe in the possessive form of any pronouns in English. Towels are his and hers, not hi's and her's.

On that note, who's is who is and nothing else. The possessive of that word is whose.


Just a note: none of this is worth fighting over. Language, especially English is highly open to interpretation; if someone calls a horse a pickle you'd think they were clearly wrong, but what if you knew exactly what they meant? They communicated effectively through language. I don't see how that's anything but correct. Stricter personal interpretations are acceptable, of course. If you want to cut someone's tongue out when they say pacific but mean specific, I sympathize. Just please don't do it here :).

[glee]

In English, the plural of 'forum' is not 'fora'. It's 'forums'. It's not Latin! (The plural of 'drum' is 'drums'.)

If I imply some extra meaning, you are welcome to infer it.

I have sympathy for the confusion over he, his, she, her, it and it's.
It's unfortunate that the abbreviation is spelt the same way as the possessive.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Look up a word before you shoot your mouth off saying “that’s not what that word means.” A living language is constantly evolving. Words do often acquire other (sometimes divergent) meanings from the original. That’s just the way it is.

Similar to that, look up “idiom” before you spout some irrelevant drivel about a phrase “should be.” (“I could care less,” comes up a lot with this one. It simply means “I don’t care,” which can not be derived from it’s component words.)

[Giles]

In English, the plural of 'forum' is not 'fora'. It's 'forums'. It's not Latin! (The plural of 'drum' is 'drums'.)
"Drum" is a Germanic word, so it's irrelevant here. I prefer "forums" myself, but "fora" is not wrong. With English words derived from Latin, there's a continuum from those that almost always have the Latin plural (the plural of "genus" is "genera", and I've never seen "genuses") to those that should just have the English plural (the plural of "campus" is "campuses", partly because the Latin plural is not "campa"). "Forum" is one of the words that is part way along this continuum.

[Cisco]

Similar to that, look up “idiom” before you spout some irrelevant drivel about a phrase “should be.” (“I could care less,” comes up a lot with this one. It simply means “I don’t care,” which can not be derived from it’s component words.)

Hehe, yes :D. Watching the grammar bullies and the path of destruction they carve around here can be quite funny sometimes. I have not seen "I could care less" on this board since someone ranted about that awhile back; it's always "I couldn't care less" now, which I've never heard anyone say in real life.

Another time someone said "baited breath" and got flamed and told that it was BATED! SHORT FOR ABATED! I actually saw someone shortly after that write 'bated breath. My eyes almost exploded and then I felt a lot of sympathy for the person, who was obviously just trying not to get scorched.

There're a couple others like this I can't think of at the moment but I'll remember them and post later.

[gigi]

which can not be derived from it’s component words.

Did you do that on purpose? I actually had an exchange with someone who wouldn't believe there was such a word as "cannot". :eek:

[TheLoadedDog]

A female actor is an actor. Yes, actress is a word, but it's redundant. An actor is a person who acts, not a male who acts. In my Webster's Unabridged, in the section advising how to avoid sexism in your writing, it specifically says "instead of actress, use actor."


This one annoys me. I've got nothing against the language evolving naturally, but this "correction" seemed to occur unnaturally and from the top down. IIRC, it was about 1987 (give or take two years either side). At one moment, "actress" was fine, and the next you were a sexist pig if you dared utter the word.

For mine, I prefer the gender-specific words; if you can add more information in the same number of syllables, why not?

[Thudlow Boink]

which can not be derived from it’s component words.)It's is it is and nothing else. Fight the good fight, Cisco, but it's going to take a while.

[Cisco]

This one annoys me. I've got nothing against the language evolving naturally, but this "correction" seemed to occur unnaturally and from the top down. IIRC, it was about 1987 (give or take two years either side). At one moment, "actress" was fine, and the next you were a sexist pig if you dared utter the word.

For mine, I prefer the gender-specific words; if you can add more information in the same number of syllables, why not?
I don't think that ever happened here in the US. Not that I know of, at least. I never hear people use actor for a female, it's always actress. I don't mind gendered words in Spanish but we just don't use them in English, so the few contrived exceptions (remember "comedienne"?) sound odd.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Did you do that on purpose? :eek:

Well, the first thing was on purpose. But I realize that "cannot" is equally valid. The second thing is just bad proofreading.

[Sunspace]

Hehe, yes :D. Watching the grammar bullies and the path of destruction they carve around here can be quite funny sometimes. I have not seen "I could care less" on this board since someone ranted about that awhile back; it's always "I couldn't care less" now, which I've never heard anyone say in real life. I fond that "I could care less" can be the most devastating version, if used properly: "I could care less... but I don't." :)

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

I fond that "I could care less" can be the most devastating version, if used properly: "I could care less... but I don't." :)

Maybe. The available history (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm) on it doesn't seem to agree with the "proper" connotation.

The link also includes another sore spot among the grammar blue noses "begs the question." Sorry, guys, but it does mean something in addition to its first recorded use.

[Cisco]

Ever noticed that no one can say drink the Kool-Aid around here without someone pointing out that it was Flavor-Aid? So the saying is Kool-Aid and the stuff was Flavor-Aid. Which one should we say?

You could guess which one I say if I tell you I grew up in the south, where every soda is a Coke :).

[jsgoddess]

I find it funny watching some on the dope twist their sentences around in stilted and awkward ways to avoid splitting infinitives or ending sentences with prepositions, as if a fist on a spring would boing out from their monitors to punch them in their faces if they fail to follow ridiculous prescriptivism that had nothing to do with English in the first place.

*pant, pant*

[Spectralist]

This one annoys me. I've got nothing against the language evolving naturally, but this "correction" seemed to occur unnaturally and from the top down. IIRC, it was about 1987 (give or take two years either side). At one moment, "actress" was fine, and the next you were a sexist pig if you dared utter the word.

For mine, I prefer the gender-specific words; if you can add more information in the same number of syllables, why not?

Interesting, for most of my childhood(born in '86) i always heard it as actor for male or female. It wasn't until mid 90s that i first started hearing actress and it seemed really odd and artificial to me. It still does.

[gonzomax]

Interesting, for most of my childhood(born in '86) i always heard it as actor for male or female. It wasn't until mid 90s that i first started hearing actress and it seemed really odd and artificial to me. It still does.

Me too. It should still be actress.

[Cisco]

Me too. It should still be actress.

You too what? It reads like you just agreed and then disagreed with him in the same breath.

[Ignatz]

I fond that "I could care less" can be the most devastating version, if used properly: "I could care less... but I don't." :)


Being the one that "ranted" about this many moons ago, I shall do it again.

If someone says "I could care less", then they do care a little.

If you say "I couldn't care less" means you do not care at all.

Its irrefutable.

I stopped trying to eddikate posters over "it's" instead of "its", when the mods started doing it.

Fighting ignorance since 1973.

[Ignatz]

When did "I'm like..." or "I was like..." come to mean "I said", "I thought"? I think I first noticed it en masse around 2000 when I was between jobs and watched a lot of daytime tv and happened to tune in to Rosie O'Dognell, who used it, like, a lot (which is, like, another matter).

[jsgoddess]

If you say "I couldn't care less" means you do not care at all.

You don't get to tell people what they mean. People generally know what they mean, and if you know what they mean, too, then bing! Communication!

[Cisco]

When did "I'm like..." or "I was like..." come to mean "I said", "I thought"? I think I first noticed it en masse around 2000 when I was between jobs and watched a lot of daytime tv and happened to tune in to Rosie O'Dognell, who used it, like, a lot (which is, like, another matter).

Well, Valley Girl came out in 1983, and they didn't just make it up out of thin air, so I'd guess people have been saying this at least as far back as the 1970s.

[glee]

delete duplicate

[glee]

"Drum" is a Germanic word, so it's irrelevant here. I prefer "forums" myself, but "fora" is not wrong. With English words derived from Latin, there's a continuum from those that almost always have the Latin plural (the plural of "genus" is "genera", and I've never seen "genuses") to those that should just have the English plural (the plural of "campus" is "campuses", partly because the Latin plural is not "campa"). "Forum" is one of the words that is part way along this continuum.

Sorry, I don't agree at all.

I was giving examples of Englis words ending in -um.
The fact that you can construct the plural only by knowing the origin of each word shows me that your system is incorrect.

There is no need to complicate English by using rules from other languages depending on where the word came from.
Latin plurals should disappear from our language, making it easier to teach and learn.

[Ximenean]

It's is it is and nothing else.
It's often been used as a contraction of "it has", too.

if you can add more information in the same number of syllables, why not?
By that logic, one could come up with a word like, I don't know, "Actrin", meaning an African American actor, and claim that it is acceptable.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

If someone says "I could care less", then they do care a little.

If you say "I couldn't care less" means you do not care at all.

Its irrefutable.

I don't doubt that you sincerely believe that. However, it is at odds with the facts.

[Speaker for the Dead]

It's often been used as a contraction of "it has", too.


By that logic, one could come up with a word like, I don't know, "Actrin", meaning an African American actor, and claim that it is acceptable.Of course it isn't acceptable. The word you're looking for is "blacktor."

[Cisco]

It's often been used as a contraction of "it has", too.

Can you give an example? This sounds British to me; I don't think I've ever heard it in the US, though maybe an example would jog my memory.

[jsgoddess]

Can you give an example? This sounds British to me; I don't think I've ever heard it in the US, though maybe an example would jog my memory.

It's been my experience that "it's" can mean "it has." :D

ETA: The post you quoted used it as "it has," just as mine did.

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

Can you give an example? This sounds British to me; I don't think I've ever heard it in the US, though maybe an example would jog my memory.

Respectfully submitted for your perusal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ2O_YxkUE4)

[Cisco]

It's been my experience that "it's" can mean "it has." :D

ETA: The post you quoted used it as "it has," just as mine did.

See, I must've known this subconsciously, because I kind of knew it would make sense when I saw an example :smack:

[SeaDragonTattoo]

Please add a spell-checker to your toolbar, and USE it. Please! It can't catch correctly spelled words in the wrong usage, but it at least shows you maybe TRIED.

Definately is definitely not right and I've seen it in several posts just today. It irks me to no end! AARGH!

Okay. I feel better. Thanks.

[Chef Troy]

There are plenty of things people say that are flat-out wrong, but I won't go into them here because it would take all day.

Instead, I'm using today's ration of bile on people who insist on using baroque, Edwardian spelling and/or word variants like spelt and whilst. Like it or not, folks, you're living in McDonaldland, and saying "I saw Anthony Rapp whilst I was in line to get tickets to Rent" just makes you sound twee. They may be in the dictionary and therefore technically correct, but we all know that "the dictionary" (as if there were only one) is like a wimpy kid that will go along with anything if enough people get in his face about it. Just because "the dictionary" says you can use a word a given way doesn't mean you should, if you don't want people to think you're an emo-haired effete high-school freshman who writes with a quill pen. "Spelt" is a kind of grain. Say "spelled" like a normal person.

(related) and for the love of Mike, will you all PLEASE stop saying "whinge" when you mean "whine"?

[Švejk]

Language, especially English is highly open to interpretation;

Bolding mine.

I hope this does not constitute a hijack and if it does, I apologize, but what makes you say that English is special and somehow unlike other languages in this respect?

[Giles]

Sorry, I don't agree at all.

I was giving examples of Englis words ending in -um.
The fact that you can construct the plural only by knowing the origin of each word shows me that your system is incorrect.

There is no need to complicate English by using rules from other languages depending on where the word came from.
Latin plurals should disappear from our language, making it easier to teach and learn.
What about irregular Germanic plurals? Why not say "childs", "gooses", "mans", "mouses", "womans", etc.? THat would make English easier to learn, especially when you have to work out the plurals of words like "mongoose", "shaman" and "Walkman".

[Yllaria]

When did "I'm like..." or "I was like..." come to mean "I said", "I thought"? I think I first noticed it en masse around 2000 when I was between jobs and watched a lot of daytime tv and happened to tune in to Rosie O'Dognell, who used it, like, a lot (which is, like, another matter).

"I'm like" and "I said" are not completely equivalent. If you say "I said" you are required to accurately tell the words that you said. If you say "I'm like" you are required to accurately reproduce the words you said, with their original intonation and any pertinent body language. At least that's my take on it.

[gigi]

I find it funny watching some on the dope twist their sentences around in stilted and awkward ways to avoid splitting infinitives or ending sentences with prepositions, as if a fist on a spring would boing out from their monitors to punch them in their faces if they fail to follow ridiculous prescriptivism that had nothing to do with English in the first place.

I guess so, but it's tough to see everything deteriorate around you and not try to preserve something yourself.

[RealityChuck]

Ever noticed that no one can say drink the Kool-Aid around here without someone pointing out that it was Flavor-Aid? So the saying is Kool-Aid and the stuff was Flavor-Aid. Which one should we say?.Kool-Aid. The phrase trumps the facts, as it always does in language.

Re plurals: The origin of the word is irrelevant. Some words take plurals from the Latin; others follow Germanic rules; others follow Old English, and still others follow English. It's the speakers who decide.

The same for the King Canutes who insist that "data" is plural because the Latin is plural, but have no problem with using "agenda" as singular. "Data" is a collective noun meaning "information," and should be treated that way, no matter where it comes from.

[Bosstone]

I guess so, but it's tough to see everything deteriorate around you and not try to preserve something yourself.Every day I lose 30 to 40,000 skin cells. You'd think after 26 years I'd have fallen apart by now!

[Annie-Xmas]

I agree with actor--after all, many female actors are members of the Screen Actors Guild.

However, anyone who calls me a "man" because "man" means "a human being" is lookng for a fight. As long as "people" and "person" are words, there is no need to use the false generic of "man."

[jsgoddess]

I guess so, but it's tough to see everything deteriorate around you and not try to preserve something yourself.

But that's trying to "preserve" something that shouldn't have been there in the first place. English isn't Latin. It hasn't ever had the same rules as Latin and sticking Latin rules on English doesn't make sense. Even if it makes sense to insist on certain rules (it doesn't), it can't make sense to import Latin rules into the English language and then contort sentences around to fit. That's not preserving something that's deteriorating; that's imposing goofy rules for the sake of goofy rules.

[Cisco]

Bolding mine.

I hope this does not constitute a hijack and if it does, I apologize, but what makes you say that English is special and somehow unlike other languages in this respect?
There is no formal board that monitors our language like there is for French or Spanish. We also seem to have an uncommonly high amount of loan words. We are considered a Germanic language but a hell of a lot of our language ultimately comes from Latin or Greek.

[Bosstone]

There is no formal board that monitors our language like there is for French or Spanish. We also seem to have an uncommonly high amount of loan words. We are considered a Germanic language but a hell of a lot of our language ultimately comes from Latin or Greek.Japanese has a notable amount of loan words too. Mostly English due to Occupation, of course, but quite a few European ones as well.

[Švejk]

There is no formal board that monitors our language like there is for French or Spanish. We also seem to have an uncommonly high amount of loan words. We are considered a Germanic language but a hell of a lot of our language ultimately comes from Latin or Greek.

I'm not convinced. How does having a formal monitoring board make a language less open to interpretation? Can you give an example from French or Spanish? Also, about the loan words, the same is true for most Germanic languages, there's nothing unique about English here. And I don't see how having loanwords makes a language tougher to interpret. If anything, I'd guess that the comparatively large vocabulary of the English language would allow for less ambiguity.

[Sailboat]

Home and hone. I constantly see newspapers and websites using the nonsense pharse "hone in on" when they mean "seeks or guides toward". "The missile honed in on Osama's camp;" "the linebacker honed in on the quarterback."

This isn't a case of idiom nor of "common use." "Home in on" is a perfectly understandable idiom in its own right -- you are going, well, home. "Home in on" was understood, and used to the complete exclusion of "honed in on," up and until a few years after the internet allowed everyone, even people who'd failed elementary-school English, to effortlessly regurgitate their thoughts into pixels.

Hone means to sharpen. Home means (among other things) to seek out, guide on, or move toward a target. Even other common American uses of "home" have this sense, and anyone who stopped and thought about it would realize "home" is correct in this sense. One doesn't see honing pigeons racing in the sky. A runner doesn't try to beat the throw to hone base.

The words are not even homonyms unless one pronounces them lazily.

Sailboat

[Skald the Rhymer]

"I'm like" and "I said" are not completely equivalent. If you say "I said" you are required to accurately tell the words that you said. If you say "I'm like" you are required to accurately reproduce the words you said, with their original intonation and any pertinent body language. At least that's my take on it.

I think you're being flip, but I'll chime in to disagree anyway. In my experience, "I'm like" means that the speaker intends to communicate the tone and attitude of the original statement--the gist, in other words---but not the exact words.

[gigi]

Home and hone. I constantly see newspapers and websites using the nonsense pharse "hone in on" when they mean "seeks or guides toward". "The missile honed in on Osama's camp;" "the linebacker honed in on the quarterback."

This isn't a case of idiom nor of "common use." "Home in on" is a perfectly understandable idiom in its own right -- you are going, well, home. "Home in on" was understood, and used to the complete exclusion of "honed in on," up and until a few years after the internet allowed everyone, even people who'd failed elementary-school English, to effortlessly regurgitate their thoughts into pixels.

Hone means to sharpen. Home means (among other things) to seek out, guide on, or move toward a target. Even other common American uses of "home" have this sense, and anyone who stopped and thought about it would realize "home" is correct in this sense. One doesn't see honing pigeons racing in the sky. A runner doesn't try to beat the throw to hone base.

The words are not even homonyms unless one pronounces them lazily.

Sailboat
THANK YOU! I was using this wrong because I was thinking hone--sharpen, cut away extra and focus on the central thing--hone in on. Or I wasn't thinking.

I love learning new things among the usual (justified) gripes.

[Cisco]

"Loan words" was definitely the wrong term for me to use. According to some sources, up to 60% of English ultimately has its roots in Latin. A large percentage also comes from Greek. And of course a large percentage is Germanic. It's probably more accurately described as a loaner langauge than a language with a lot of loan words.
How does having a formal monitoring board make a language less open to interpretation?Because they are the final word on what is correct and incorrect in those languages, whereas in English it's more of a mixture of common use, independent style guides, and dictionaries.

[Roland Orzabal]

"I'm like" and "I said" are not completely equivalent. If you say "I said" you are required to accurately tell the words that you said. If you say "I'm like" you are required to accurately reproduce the words you said, with their original intonation and any pertinent body language. At least that's my take on it.Interesting...I agree with your usage of "I said", but I use "I'm like" differently. When I say "I'm like", it means that whatever follows may or may not be what I actually said, but captures the essence of my meaning. If my actual words were different, I'll usually follow it up in the telling with an "I said". For example:

So, there was this meeting today to pick a vendor, and Bob and Jillian said they were leaning toward VendCorp, and I'm like "...the fuck?! Remember last year when they boned us out of $200k?" So, I said, "Well, we could go that route, but we've had bad experiences with them...", and Bob looked at me like "shut up or die". That's when I remembered his brother owns VendCorp.

For my own contribution...I'm a descriptivist, and do my level best not to get hung up on usage as long as communication is achieved. With that in mind, I offer the following advice to my co-workers: Q & A is an abbreviation meaning Questions & Answers, and refers to the session at the end of a module where the participants can ask the leader questions. QA stands for Quality Assurance, and refers to the process of error-checking the module after we write it. When you mix these up, it is not always clear from context which one you mean. I must therefore ask that you stop using one when you mean the other, or I will punch you in the face. Thanks!

[GorillaMan]

Can you give an example? This sounds British to me; I don't think I've ever heard it in the US, though maybe an example would jog my memory.

Last time I checked, us Brits spoke English, just like you do. Nothing in the OP said Britishisms were to be treated as quaint exceptions.

Instead, I'm using today's ration of bile on people who insist on using baroque, Edwardian spelling and/or word variants like spelt and whilst. Like it or not, folks, you're living in McDonaldland...

Be careful of making assumptions as to why people write in a particular way or with particular vocabulary. If I say 'whilst', then I don't think it's unreasonable to write it, too.

[Speaker for the Dead]

Last time I checked, us Brits spoke English, just like you do. Nothing in the OP said Britishisms were to be treated as quaint exceptions.



Be careful of making assumptions as to why people write in a particular way or with particular vocabulary. If I say 'whilst', then I don't think it's unreasonable to write it, too.This reminds me fondly of a moment in grade 10 where I'd dropped "whilst" into an essay (on the Marquis de Sade, of all people). The teacher, a good guy, made that argument--"it's archaic; nobody you know says that." "Of course they do!" I said, "why, whilst I was writing this paper I must've heard it." "Nice try. You didn't lose any marks for it." Nerts, hey? :D

[KneadToKnow]

I'll stop using actress when the Academy stops giving out "Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role" or a "Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role" awards.

[GorillaMan]

This reminds me fondly of a moment in grade 10 where I'd dropped "whilst" into an essay (on the Marquis de Sade, of all people). The teacher, a good guy, made that argument--"it's archaic; nobody you know says that." "Of course they do!" I said, "why, whilst I was writing this paper I must've heard it." "Nice try. You didn't lose any marks for it." Nerts, hey? :D

Nice try, except I do actually use it. Yes, I'm expecting you to actually take my word for it, which means treating me with a bit more respect than the grade 10 you ;)

[Cisco]

Last time I checked, us Brits spoke English, just like you do. Nothing in the OP said Britishisms were to be treated as quaint exceptions.
Award for most insecure comment of the day? I don't remember using the word quaint or exception, nor did I imply either.

[KneadToKnow]

I'll stop using actress when the Academy stops giving out "Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role" or a "Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role" awards.

Actually, let me amend that. I'll stop using actress when they stop accepting them.

[Miller]

(related) and for the love of Mike, will you all PLEASE stop saying "whinge" when you mean "whine"?

I only use "whinge" when I mean "whinge."

[jsgoddess]

I'll stop using actress when the Academy stops giving out "Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role" or a "Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role" awards.

Just out of curiosity, do you refer to African Americans as "colored" because of the existence of the NAACP?

[KneadToKnow]

Just out of curiosity, do you refer to African Americans as "colored" because of the existence of the NAACP?

:)

I see your point, but only goes so far: the NAACP is the organization, not the annual award: they do not (to my knowledge) hand out an annual "Colored Person of the Year" award.

AMPAS has had no problem re-naming their awards in the past ("Outstanding Picture" begat "Outstanding Production" begat "Outstanding Motion Picture" begat "Best Motion Picture" begat "Best Picture").

However: my second post was intended to clarify my earlier statement.

[jsgoddess]

:)

I see your point, but only goes so far: the NAACP is the organization, not the annual award: they do not (to my knowledge) hand out an annual "Colored Person of the Year" award.

True. At least, I hope not. :D

Still, just because an organization uses a term it doesn't mean the term is the one the people it refers to would use. Would the women prefer to be called actors or actresses? It seems actors is preferred, so that's the term I use.

[KneadToKnow]

True. At least, I hope not. :D

Still, just because an organization uses a term it doesn't mean the term is the one the people it refers to would use. Would the women prefer to be called actors or actresses? It seems actors is preferred, so that's the term I use.

Again, I will cite my 2nd post. If they really were offended by the term, they'd turn down the awards on those grounds and the term would change.

[jsgoddess]

Again, I will cite my 2nd post. If they really were offended by the term, they'd turn down the awards on those grounds and the term would change.

First, getting an Oscar is a Big Deal, and most actors can't afford to be pissy with the Academy.

Second, why isn't a preference enough?

[Baldwin]

"I could care less" is used because people don't think about what they're saying. They don't mean it literally, they mean the opposite of the literal meaning -- yet they're not deliberately being ironic. Just lazy. It will never be correct.

Cisco -- you've been hearing "it's" meaning "it has" all your life, you just didn't think about what words it was replacing. S'long; it's been nice.

[Cisco]

Cisco -- you've been hearing "it's" meaning "it has" all your life, you just didn't think about what words it was replacing. S'long; it's been nice.
I acknowledged that 40 posts ago. I just had a brain fart. I use it all the time.

[blondebear]

On that note, who's is who is and nothing else. The possessive of that word is whose.

Which of The Whose albums is your favorite? :D

[Chef Troy]

Be careful of making assumptions as to why people write in a particular way or with particular vocabulary. If I say 'whilst', then I don't think it's unreasonable to write it, too. I just went back and re-read my own post, and nowhere did I make any assumptions about why people do it -- I just made some unflattering observations about how it makes them sound.

[Chef Troy]

Which of The Whose albums is your favorite? :DHey, who's been rummaging through my record collection?

[jsgoddess]

I just went back and re-read my own post, and nowhere did I make any assumptions about why people do it -- I just made some unflattering observations about how it makes them sound.

Yeah, it makes them sound British, the dastards.

[Baldwin]

I acknowledged that 40 posts ago. I just had a brain fart. I use it all the time.Brain farts have become a way of life for me. Everything I used to know is still in my brain, but I can't seem to find it in a hurry. Sometimes, it's sitting in plain sight like the Purloined Letter, and I keep trying to pry up the floorboards. Don't really know where I'm going with this.

Speaking of Britishisms -- "whinge" is one, right? Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it has a subtly different connotation than "whine". At least, I think I've seen "whinge" used to mean "making a legitimate but tiresome complaint", whereas "whine" suggests "making a complaint as a diversion to avoid acknowledging one's one failing". What do y'all think?

[GorillaMan]

I just went back and re-read my own post, and nowhere did I make any assumptions about why people do it -- I just made some unflattering observations about how it makes them sound.

You did say they 'insist' on it, which suggests it's a conscious decision to deviate from a norm, rather than a different and equally valid use of the language which happens to more closely reflect their speech.

[Gary "Wombat" Robson]

In English, the plural of 'forum' is not 'fora'. It's 'forums'. It's not Latin!This raises a pet peeve of mine. I have never corrected anyone who said "forums." You are welcome to use it. Sometimes I even use it. But most of the time, I use "fora," which is my personal selection of the two valid pluralizations of "forum." I'm polite enough not to correct you when you choose the more modern (but perfectly acceptable) form, so why can't you be polite enough not to correct me when I use the older (but still perfectly acceptable) form?

I have not seen "I could care less" on this board since someone ranted about that awhile back; it's always "I couldn't care less" now, which I've never heard anyone say in real life.That must be a regionalism, then, Cisco. I hear the "correct" ( ;) ) form ("couldn't care less") far more often than the "lazy" form ("could care less").

[Earl Snake-Hips Tucker]

I haven't heard "I couldn't care less" in over thirty years. And I don't think I've ever heard it in a TV program or movie. OTOH, I have heard "I could care less" on film as far back as the mid-60s.

[Cisco]

That must be a regionalism, then, Cisco. I hear the "correct" ( ;) ) form ("couldn't care less") far more often than the "lazy" form ("could care less").

I remember breaking the term down when I was a little kid and trying to rationalize "I could care less" and no matter what I thought - even "I could care less, but I don't" - didn't make as much sense as "I couldn't care less." Still, I'm always listening for quirky little things like that and I've never once heard the latter in real life. And I've lived and travelled all over. One variant I heard a lot as a teenager, because I had a friend who said it all the time, was the bogglingly nonsensical "I could give a lesser fuck."

[Bosstone]

Steven Pinker gives the rationale for "I could care less" as sarcasm, with the tone adding an implied "As if I could care any less than I do now."

I must admit it seems a weak explanation, although a plausible one. I just file it under idioms that aren't literal, just as 'bad' doesn't always mean 'bad'. (Try deconstructing 'badass' literally. I dare you.)

[Sternvogel]

I'll stop using actress when the Academy stops giving out "Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role" or a "Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role" awards.

Actually, let me amend that. I'll stop using actress when they stop accepting them.

Yeah, if actors are just actors no matter their chromosomal makeup, why have "Best Actor" and "Best Actress" categories at the Academy Awards? You wouldn't even have to cut the number of awards in half -- you could just have the "Big Four" performance plaudits recast as "Best Lead Actor in a Comedy", "Best Lead Actor in a Drama", "Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy", and "Best Supporting Actor in a Drama".

[Sternvogel]

I tried to edit my previous post, but the clock ran out as I was searching for a relevant link.

Anyway, to contribute a spelling nitpick:

Ever noticed that no one can say drink the Kool-Aid around here without someone pointing out that it was Flavor-Aid? So the saying is Kool-Aid and the stuff was Flavor-Aid. Which one should we say?

Well, if we're being pedantic, we should type Fla-Vor-Aid (http://www.theimaginaryworld.com/tic157.jpg) (assuming that photo is an authentic depiction of the product).

[Cisco]

Let's not be pedantic. (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CQokfPGrL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-2,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg)

[Apollyon]

Speaking of Britishisms -- "whinge" is one, right?I tend -- perhaps incorrectly -- to classify it as an Australianism, or New Zealandism... as in "whinging Pom"... so perhaps its is commonwealth usage.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it has a subtly different connotation than "whine"..... What do y'all think?"Whine" is higher pitched. :D

And Chef Troy may have my spelt and whilst when he prises them from my cold dead fingers. He may be living in McDonaldland, but some of us still speak proper 'n' all. :)

[Bites When Provoked]

I tend -- perhaps incorrectly -- to classify it as an Australianism, or New Zealandism... as in "whinging Pom"... so perhaps its is commonwealth usage.I agree that it'd be a Commonwealth-ism rather than just a 'British' thing. As you say, it's certainly firmly entrenched in Australian and New Zealand English.
"Whine" is higher pitched. :DGood description!

Saying that 'whinge' and 'whine' are the same thing is only as true as saying that 'cobalt' and 'sky' are the same thing - ie, both of the examples are shades of blue, but they're not interchangeable shades of blue.