Who was the first gay person?

[Uniball]

Who was the very first person, in the recorded History, to come out of the closed by his/her own volition? I don't mean the "outed" celebrities, but the very first gay that said "Yep, I'm gay and I'm proud, and if you don't like you can kiss my ass"?

[Max Torque]

His name was Kreegah, but he made the other cavemen call him "Brucie!"

[Coldfire]

< insert obligatory homo erectus joke here >

[absoul]

I dont exactly know his name... but I think he only had one testicle.

[Morrison's Lament]

Originally posted by Coldfire
< insert obligatory homo erectus joke here >


huhuhuhuh, *snigger* YOU SAID INSERT, HOMO, AND ERECTUS! *snigger* , hhuhuhuhuhuuuhhhuuhuhuhuhuh

[/beavis_and_butthead.ref]

As for the first gay person, dare we revive the PC delicate topic of Otzi the gay caveman? :)

G. Raven Johnson

Quote of the day: "<illusion13> Don't you ever quote me on this!"

[Coldfire]

You DO know that the Otzi saga was a gag by an Austrian Gay Society, right?

[Morrison's Lament]

Yup, he was a gag at first, but it sort of took on a life of it's own if I remember the column correctly, and some circles argued it as fact. It apparently became a hot story/joke among gays for a while, so it would make sence that someone would choose to believe it.

I mentioned it, and being PC, because minorities often don't like really cool myths like these dispelled. Hell, I think we all hate having our myths dispelled. That's why I try to learn one cool fact for every cool urban legend that I hear debunked.

-G. Raven Johnson

[TomH]

Whoever it was I hope, for his or her sake, that he or she was not waiting too long for the second gay person to show up.

[Arjuna34]

Originally posted by TomH
Whoever it was I hope, for his or her sake, that he or she was not waiting too long for the second gay person to show up.

LOL!

Here's the Straight Dope on Otzi (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_229.html)

Arjuna34

[HeyHomie]

For a reasonably serious answer to the OP, I'm putting my money on Nero.

Thank you. :D

[RainbowDragon]

The kicker to answering this question is defining “gay”. The term itself wasn’t invented until the late 60’s to describe homosexuals. In which case you are talking about someone like Harvey Milk who “came out” as being “gay”. Of course he was shot for his beliefs.

Before then ancient people didn’t worry about sexual labels such as gay and straight. In fact in Ancient Greece the lines of sexuality weren’t drawn. Alexander the Great is believed to have sexual relations with both sexes. Aristotle was known to like the company of young men. However no Ancient Greek referred to himself or others as “gay”.

Cavemen probably didn’t worry about sexual identity either. If it felt good and right, they did it. There wasn’t a closet to come out of (or even a cave) because there was absolutely no reason to hide.

Later man would create religion and realize that the growth of religion depends on members. Since homosexuality doesn’t produce offspring, it doesn’t provide for the growth of the religion. Hence some religions saw it as a threat to their existence and dictated laws against it. Then of course religion entangles itself with law, and the homosexuals were forced into closets.

Beginning with the Stonewall riot, a movement broke out in the gay community to get out of the closet and into mainstream American culture. Proclaiming their homosexuality became important to them as a sense of identity and to combat the oppression of the past.

[Tengu]

Originally posted by RainbowDragon
The kicker to answering this question is defining “gay”. The term itself wasn’t invented until the late 60’s to describe homosexuals.

More likely the 30s. (http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19991102) It was becoming known in the mainsteam culture in the 60s, but had been around for a while before that.

[Wendell Wagner]

RainbowDragon writes:

> In which case you are talking about someone like Harvey
> Milk who “came out” as being “gay”. Of course he was shot
> for his beliefs.

No, he wasn't. He was shot because his killer was mad at the mayor and shot him. Milk just happened to be nearby at the time, so he shot Milk too. It's arguable that the killer didn't get as long a sentence as he might have because the jury didn't like Milk.

RainbowDragon further writes:

> Later man would create religion and realize that the
> growth of religion depends on members.

Religion has been around as long as man has existed. I know of no evidence that religious societies are particularly homophobic societies. I know of no evidence that religious groups are homophobic because they need a large membership growth.

[Lamia]

Originally posted by Uniball
Who was the very first person, in the recorded History, to come out of the closed by his/her own volition? I don't mean the "outed" celebrities, but the very first gay that said "Yep, I'm gay and I'm proud, and if you don't like you can kiss my ass"?

There can be no doubt that there have been homosexuals throughout history, but your question is impossible to answer since social attitudes towards homosexuality vary between different cultures and time periods. For example Plato's Republic makes many references to men having sex with teenaged boys, but it is unlikely that Plato or any other Ancient Greek would understand or identify with modern American conceptions of homosexuality.

Speaking of America, I believe the first recorded self-identified homosexual in the New World was the Puritan cleric Michael Wigglesworth (1631-1705). His story is featured in the documentary Out of the Past. In his secret coded diaries Wigglesworth wrote extensively about his "sinful" desires for his male students. There were of course Native American homosexuals in the New World long before Wigglesworth's time (in some tribes they were not only accepted, but granted special social status), but I don't think that any of them left behind personal writings.

[Guinastasia]

Wasn't there also Oscar Wilde and Kaiser Wilhelm II's minister and friend, Philip von Eulenberg? Weren't both charged with homosexual activities?

And then of course, I believe Rudolph Valentino was bisexual.

[Lamia]

Originally posted by Wendell Wagner

No, he wasn't. He was shot because his killer was mad at the mayor and shot him. Milk just happened to be nearby at the time, so he shot Milk too. It's arguable that the killer didn't get as long a sentence as he might have because the jury didn't like Milk.


No, Milk did not just "happen to be nearby at the time". After murdering San Francisco mayor George Moscone, Dan White sought out City Supervisor Harvey Milk and murdered him as well. Dan White was a former City Supervisor himself who blamed Moscone and Milk for his loss of position. Milk's homosexuality probably had little or nothing to do with his murder (although White was aware that Milk was homosexual), but he wasn't just in the wrong place at the wrong time. White has a personal grudge against him.

I don't think there can be any doubt that White's light sentence was partially the result of a homophobic jury. I speak as someone who knows much of the White trial by heart -- I was in a production of the play Execution of Justice which is based on transcripts of the trial.

[handy]

Oh my. I think it's a pretty silly question. As a matter of fact, it would be the first TWO gay persons, not ONE.

[Coldfire]

Why, handy? Is a single homosexual man less gay than a "practicing" homosexual man?

[Uniball]

Originally posted by Lamia
There can be no doubt that there have been homosexuals throughout history, but your question is impossible to answer since social attitudes towards homosexuality vary between different cultures and time periods.

Makes sense to me. Then, let's narrow it to... who was the first person to come out in those times when being gay was considered "wrong"?

[Enderw24]

I'd have to go with Cain and Able.

[jayjay]

The OP asked about people who outed themselves. Oscar Wilde was outed by the busting of a "love-nest" establishment, and the fact that his lover was the son of a powerful nobleman. Hardly a case of self-outing.

Enderw23:

Are you saying the first murder was the result of an incestuous lovers' quarrel? :eek:

Lamia...

Wigglesworth? Wigglesworth???

Wasn't "Bunny Wigglesworth" the (adopted) name of Zorro's brother in Zorro, the gay blade?

[Lamia]

Originally posted by Uniball

Makes sense to me. Then, let's narrow it to... who was the first person to come out in those times when being gay was considered "wrong"?

This isn't much simpler, because there have been many times and places where being gay was considered wrong. There have been others where some level of homosexual behavior was at least tolerated but being exclusively gay would have been considered to be in poor taste.

Another difficulty is that a person can be openly gay without that information ever being recorded anywhere. I'm sure there were times when everyone in the village knew what the two women (or two men) in the hut down by the river were getting up to, but no one bothered to write it down. In many cases it would have been impossible for anyone to write it down because no one knew how to write.

Originally posted by E d'Mann

Wigglesworth? Wigglesworth???


Yes, it was hard for me to refrain from making some sort of joke myself. :)


Wasn't "Bunny Wigglesworth" the (adopted) name of Zorro's brother in Zorro, the gay blade?

Never seen it so I don't know...perhaps the name was inspired by history!

[Danimal]

Originally posted by E d'Mann
Lamia...

Wigglesworth? Wigglesworth???

Wasn't "Bunny Wigglesworth" the (adopted) name of Zorro's brother in Zorro, the Gay Blade?

Absolutely right. (I was one of the five people in the Western hemisphere who liked that movie).

[Esprix]

Six. None of that simple "Z" with a blade for Bunny - it was the full "Zorro" with a whip. Heck of a wrist, he had... ;)

Esprix