Hugh Hefner -- Pathetic, And Always Was?

[Huerta88]

A barber shop I frequent stocks a variety of lad-friendly magazines, and that is about the only time I have occasion to check out a Playboy magazine. No, I don't read it for the articles. Not that I'm that interested in the pictorials, as the types they favor, I don't.

What I always do read, though, is the part up front where they show "Hef" and his "girlfriends" at various celeb-studded gatherings (at the Mansion or elsewhere).

Which brings me to my OP. Does anyone take Hefner seriously, in any way? How can there be a television show premised around this fundamentally-uninteresting and pathetic creature?

The pictures of the gatherings are almost painful to look at. Hefner looks almost translucent. Can he really be enjoying himself, hanging out with rappers and pro athletes a third his age? Does he even know who, say, Rasheed Wallace or Kevin Dillon or Nelly are when he's posing with them? Does he think anyone really believes he has three "girlfriends" (especially when one's engaged to a pro football player, and Hefner himself is still married)? Has he not considered that the smoking jacket which he misguidedly thought made him look urbane and raffish in his 40s now conveys a strong (and not erroneous) implication that he's some escaped nursing home patient wandering around in a weird bathrobe?

The other front of the magazine aspect that turns my nose up against anyone who'd subscribe to it is the earnest how-to-be-suave advice: here's some sex tips, here's what you need to know about absinthe, etc. Isn't it women who traditionally buy magazines to tell them how to conform to society's expectations, not men? Isn't there something, going all the way back, fundamentally insecure in Hefner's message of how to be a suave lady's man -- advice that may have seemed daring 50 years ago, but that now, like the man himself, comes across as just . . . sad?

[gaffa]

It's not like anyone is going to reinvent themselves at 82. Most of the profiles I've read of him claim that he is a basically shy Midwesterner trapped in living a fantasy persona he invented when he started Playboy. At the time, it was effective and attractive, although advancing age and changing styles have rendered it kind of sad. But, if I were in his place, I don't think I'd wish to give up the lifestyle.

I do take him seriously as a champion of free speech, as I do his backwoods counterpart Larry Flynt.

I've got a different perspective on Playboy. I had my own subscription since I was 11. My family were nudists, and we had a cabin at a camp in rural Kansas. So I really did read Playboy for the articles. Yes, the girls were pretty, but the fact that they were naked was nothing special.

[The Great Sun Jester]

So. A Flint man then?


I got nothing against "El Hefe." Dude's got the same career at 82 that he had since before my dad was old enough to "apreciate" his work. The guy's a legend. The whole mansion full of 'tang isn't really my personal dream either, but that doesn't mean it's not somebody's fantasy. And that's all he's ever really sold anyway.

[Cisco]

Reminds me of maybe 2 years ago. There's this magazine or newspaper or something (definitely not Playboy) sitting in the breakroom at work. One of my co-workers, who was a pastor on the weekends, walks by and scoffs and says, in disgust, "that's got to be the most miserable man on Earth."

I thought, that's what you have to tell yourself to enjoy being religious?

[Thrash the Almighty]

Pathetic? Really?

The man has more wealth fame and influence than most of us could dream of and he's pathetic because he's old, or hanging out with people he barely knows?

Hef has money, which means he has options. He could retire to a quite little mansion any time he wanted. The fact that he doesn't means he likes it where he is. I hope I have such options when I'm 82.

[Cisco]

Reminds me of maybe 2 years ago. There's this magazine or newspaper or something (definitely not Playboy) sitting in the breakroom at work. One of my co-workers, who was a pastor on the weekends, walks by and scoffs and says, in disgust, "that's got to be the most miserable man on Earth."

I thought, that's what you have to tell yourself to enjoy being religious?

Obviously something didn't make it from my brain to my fingers. Hugh Hefner was on the cover of the magazine in the break room, in case that wasn't clear.

[Huerta88]

Obviously something didn't make it from my brain to my fingers. Hugh Hefner was on the cover of the magazine in the break room, in case that wasn't clear.

Mind you, disapproval of Hefner isn't moralistic in my case. It's aesthetic (on a lot of levels). Don't like the type of girls he likes (at least two of the "girlfriends" strike me as actively unattractive, and of course he's always been into implants, which leave me cold). Can't imagine trying to spend any significant amount of time in the company of one, let alone three, of the type of uber attention whore who'd volunteer (no, I guess they actively campaign) for the goofy job description of "girlfriend" to an old relic.

I get what everyone says about he wouldn't do it if it didn't float his boat. And I'm not rejecting the notion that money and women would ease the pain of aging. I just might go about it in a less flamboyant and goofy way.

[Cisco]

Mind you, disapproval of Hefner isn't moralistic in my case. It's aesthetic (on a lot of levels). Don't like the type of girls he likes (at least two of the "girlfriends" strike me as actively unattractive, and of course he's always been into implants, which leave me cold).

It's funny . . . on paper, I should hate Kendra. I don't like fake boobs, or dumb girls, or bottle blondes. But damn if I don't find her one hot little number.

[gaffa]

So. A Flint man then?
I've no use for Hustler magazine, but I do appreciate his sacrifices for the First Amendment. I own his autobiography "An Unseemly Man". It's uneven, but one has to admire the honesty of someone who will confess that his first sex was with a chicken.

[Dewey Finn]

I never went to business school, but I think he's done a poor job of managing the brand. They've tried nightclubs, casinos, a cable channel, a website, etc. but none of these are significant in their markets any more. Even the magazine has been passed by competitors like Penthouse and Maxim. Properly managed, he could have had a multi-billion dollar enterprise like Disney.

[RickJay]

I never went to business school, but I think he's done a poor job of managing the brand. They've tried nightclubs, casinos, a cable channel, a website, etc. but none of these are significant in their markets any more. Even the magazine has been passed by competitors like Penthouse and Maxim. Properly managed, he could have had a multi-billion dollar enterprise like Disney.
Well, everyone has their prime years, and his ended in the 60s.

I'd agree the brand has been mismanaged for two decades or more, but he had a longer run of good business management than most.

[Cisco]

Does he have anything to do with the management of the business anymore? I heard he doesn't even own the Playboy Mansion.

[Huerta88]

Well, everyone has their prime years, and his ended in the 60s.

I'd agree the brand has been mismanaged for two decades or more, but he had a longer run of good business management than most.
The brand's probably doing a lot better now than 10-15 years ago, when it was truly languishing, they were still reeling from the failure of the Clubs and the stupid bunny thing (way to be a proto-furry, Hugh), and the overall un-coolness of "swingerish" culture. With the stupid show, and having succeeded in tapping into some confluence of ironic retro-swingerism (and the Hollywood/Vegas crowd who's bought into that), the visibility of the brand is higher now than probably any time since the '60s.

Of course market and cultural forces also work against Playboy. There are a lot more outlets competing for the naked-lady dollar. Jenna Jameson is getting dollars that thirty years ago would have gone to Playboy. So is FHM.

Warren Buffett has said of potential investments: If this company didn't exist today, would it be worthwhile to invent it from scratch? I don't know that you could answer yes with Playboy. The notion of bundling mild nudes, and tips on grooming or buying single malt scotch, and short fiction (a moribund genre in many ways), and celeb spottings -- kind of a weird mishmash, and each of those segments is amply catered to elsewhere. I think the weirdness of the mixture is that Hefner really did believe (want to believe) he had the art of manliness down to a science, and that his mag would be the entree for other young insecure men to become the urbane renaissance man and Lothario he always wanted to be. Problem is that while (to his credit or the public's discredit), he made a success out of playing "Hef," that's really not a viable game plan for most of his would-be readers, so it's hard to see how he would scale up his brand other than by flogging it in whatever media he could.

[Huerta88]

Does he have anything to do with the management of the business anymore? I heard he doesn't even own the Playboy Mansion.
He's listed as Editor in Chief and "Chief Creative Officer" of the public corporation, which seems to mean no, he doesn't have much say in running it (good thing for a publicly traded corporation -- giving influence or control to an 82 year old who has to spend half of his day filiming a reality show sounds like a bad idea). Don't know if he owns the mansion or not -- but in an article claiming they were going to be stopping the parties (due to cost concerns), it mentioned that the mansion was frequently rented out for corporate functions/parties, which suggests that maybe he has other houses.

[The Great Sun Jester]

...which suggests that maybe he has other houses.Hmmm...John McCain is an elderly man who has other houses too. Coincedence?

[Hazle Weatherfield]

It's funny . . . on paper, I should hate Kendra. I don't like fake boobs, or dumb girls, or bottle blondes. But damn if I don't find her one hot little number.

God...I think she's hilarious and the most "real" of the three. My guiltiest pleasure is watching "The Girls Next Door."

[Argent Towers]

Hugh Hefner was revolutionary in terms of getting sexuality out into the mainstream in America, and I also think that his effort to keep it "classy" is laudable, even if it failed. He's far from pathetic.

[Huerta88]

Hugh Hefner was revolutionary in terms of getting sexuality out into the mainstream in America,
Probably true. Not sure everyone shares your implicit assumption that this was a desirable development.

and I also think that his effort to keep it "classy" is laudable, even if it failed.
Yeah, but maybe it was doomed to fail. He approached mainstreaming pictures of naked ladies just like a dorky White Midwesterner would: a combination of residual prudishness (no pubic hair or genital closeups) and chicken-a-la-king level tastelessness (implants, peroxide). Men look at naked lady pictures for a number of reasons, but a principal one that I can think of is not "classy" (I'm not condemning men for masturbating or for using porn as an aid thereto, just noting the incongruousness of having model "profiles" of her turn-ons and turn-offs, as though a stroke mag is actually a primer in how to romance women. There was something to be said for the days when porn was porn, but it was a fringe activity. The men who wanted it, got it, on fairly unambivalent grounds. But it wasn't ubiquitous. Yes, Hefner ushered in some changes. One of them is that your (hypothetical) teenage daughter knows who Jenna Jameson is, and probably has a pretty fair notion of what she does.

He's far from pathetic.
Much depends on definition. Hefner is famous and wealthy. So is Mark Cuban. I'd argue a definition of "pathetic" that allows me to include "schlubs who struck it rich," though I concede that in our culture, a schlub with money and fame is [so long as he retains both] not generally a figure of public derision. I guess I am aiming more at "essential" patheticness (whatever that is). Hefner just reminds me of that not-too-popular guy who used to have lots of female "friends," or who would go to girls for "romantic advice," or who was like a "big brother" to various hot girls. No matter how much he would say he just wanted friendship, etc., we all knew that what he really wanted (maybe not ALL that he wanted, but definitely A BIG PART of it) was to tag the girl(s). If you want to look at nudie pics, fine, but acting as though it matters what the model's personality and preferences are is just silly. Does Hef (do the readers) really care? Is it like the reader will say: OMG! I have very complementary interests!" and three weeks later he and the centerfold are going steady? I don't know, there just seems to be a lot of indirectness or passivity in using the "Playboy lifestyle" to feign urbanity/mask inner sub-alpha-male inadequacies (which everyone not a caveman or varsity quarterback naturally has -- hence, I suppose, Hefner's market).

[PharmBoy]

Does he think anyone really believes he has three "girlfriends" (especially when one's engaged to a pro football player, and Hefner himself is still married)?

He might be married, and the "girlfriends" might be engaged, but you can bet that Hef has slept with every single one of them.

Of course he's pathetic, he's always been so.

[gonzomax]

The Playboy cartoons have been great for many years. The interviews have been excellent and include stars ,politicians and sports figures. There has been a long history of excellent writers . It was a very good publication for many years. Heff is a little goofy though.

[drpepper]

I think we had a tangentially related thread about this a couple years ago. I want to say it was a GQ thread asking, "What's the straight dope on Hef and those women/girlfriends; do they actually have sex?" I recall there being not a lot of consensus; some people said "of course, and he's implied fairly openly that he uses a lot of viagra". Others said "No way, it's all an act to keep up the image".

Either way, I do see the OP's point, and I do think it's kind of pathetic. I mean, yeah, he has wealth, options, he's enjoying the life he's made for himself, whatever, more power to him. I just don't really respect the kind of person that finds that life enjoyable.

Not to sound snobbish or whatever, but it's like being friends with, say, a guy whose idea of a good time is going out to a disco a couple times a week; or goes to a hockey game and is a diehard "facepainter"; that sort of thing. Just kind of juvenile.

[Boyo Jim]

I never went to business school, but I think he's done a poor job of managing the brand. They've tried nightclubs, casinos, a cable channel, a website, etc. but none of these are significant in their markets any more. Even the magazine has been passed by competitors like Penthouse and Maxim. Properly managed, he could have had a multi-billion dollar enterprise like Disney.

Personally, I think he was distracted by all the blow jobs. If you're gonna screw up a business, that's a more understandable excuse than most.

[Chimera]

Not to sound snobbish or whatever, but it's like being friends with, say, a guy whose idea of a good time is going out to a disco a couple times a week; or goes to a hockey game and is a diehard "facepainter"; that sort of thing. Just kind of juvenile.

Yeah, yeah, everyone thinks that everyone else's hobbies and interests are juvenile, pointless, boring, whatever. :dubious:

[Troy McClure SF]

The Playboy cartoons have been great for many years.

I disagree, though my sample size in roughly just the past year. Looking at the cartoons, for 90% of them I think, "huh, these guys just really like drawing boobs."

[Cicero]

Hefner has for some years (for me) just had a cringe factor. Successful perhaps, but it makes my skin crawl.

[Alan Smithee]

I don't really get the criticism. It seems to boil down to three things: 1) I don't like the magazine, it hasn't kept up with the times; 2) the brand is poorly managed; 3) Hef's old! Old people are creepy and disgusting!

One and Two seem irrelevant to discussing Hef, unless you blame them on Hef's poor (in your mind) taste in women and lifestyle. Certainly lots of other magazines, like Men's Health and Maxim and GQ and Esquire have the same basic mix of content, including profiles of models and tips on grooming and "being a man," just in different proportions. Three just seems shallow and, frankly, offensive.

[Icerigger]

About 25 years ago I won a free one year subscription to Playboy, that has never stopped coming! The wrong box with my address must be checked on their computer. Hell who am I to turn down free magazines. To quote an old joke I really do read it only for the articles as they exist, I would say the page count is about half of what is was earlier. I especially like the interview if it is someone I am interested in, it is fairly in depth. I don't really look at the girls with their shaved crotches, fake breasts, tattoos and airbrushed tone, give me the playmates of the sixties any day.

[Mister Rik]

He's listed as Editor in Chief and "Chief Creative Officer" of the public corporation, which seems to mean no, he doesn't have much say in running it

Isn't it actually his daughter who's been running things for some time now?

[Huerta88]

Old people are creepy and disgusting!
******
Three just seems shallow and, frankly, offensive.

That's a mis-representation of anything I (or AFAICT) anyone else here has said about Hefner's age. All we have done is question the age-appropriateness of Hefner's activities and persona. I can say there's something a little bit creepy about JonBenet's wearing makeup, or about a forty-five year old insurance salesman hanging out at South Padre Island during Spring Break, or about an 83 year old trying to act the role of a dashing Lothario, without being "anti seven year old" or "anti middle aged businessman" or "anti old people."

There's a long and fairly widely-held theme, in our society and in literature, etc., of people raising eyebrows at those who seek to prolong their adolescence/youth/middle maturity a bit too long -- think of the figure of the overaged fratboy, the too-forced-by-half-girlish cougar, the aging roue or withered ingenue. Are all of these tropes motivated only by invidious dislike of entire categories of persons based only on their age (as opposed to their activities/mannerisms in the context of their ages)?

[FriarTed]

It's uneven, but one has to admire the honesty of someone who will confess that his first sex was with a chicken.

Woody Harrelson admitted in an interview that was something he had in common with Flint.

I am so glad I didn't know that when I knew him at Hanover.

[rocking chair]

Isn't it actually his daughter who's been running things for some time now?

i believe so. at least i remember in a vague bell ringing way that his daughter christina took over the day to day management quite some time ago.

[greatshakes]

He might be married, and the "girlfriends" might be engaged, but you can bet that Hef has slept with every single one of them.

I don't really think that he has slept with them. Granted, they may be ubersluts, but I don't think that the hot babes that like famous football players, young famous football players to whom they are engaged, are just dying to hop into the sack with an 82 year old. Any 82 year old. I think that this spin is much of the 'sad' of which the OP writes. Any day now, I expect the Playboy editorial page to start calling him 'the 82 years young Hef."

greatshakes

[JThunder]

Pathetic? Really?

The man has more wealth fame and influence than most of us could dream of and he's pathetic because he's old, or hanging out with people he barely knows?
Interesting how wealth, fame, and influence have a way of not bringing happiness.

[Boyo Jim]

He might be married, and the "girlfriends" might be engaged, but you can bet that Hef has slept with every single one of them.....

Yes, but they actually SLEPT.

[Cluricaun]

My girlfriend likes his show, so I've seen it from time to time and as well as Hef is made up, he's an old ass man who looks unsteady on his feet and who needs help getting out of cars and chairs. Something about that does not say to me that he's honestly banging the crap out of anyone, let alone three ugly blonde chicks a quarter of his age. To keep implying such is pathetic, but it's Hef's emergence from his marriage to Kimberly Conrad that revived a dying brand.

Now if you want to talk pathetic try reading his Playboy Philosophy. That's pathetic.

[Big_Norse]

I don't really think that he has slept with them. Granted, they may be ubersluts, but I don't think that the hot babes that like famous football players, young famous football players to whom they are engaged, are just dying to hop into the sack with an 82 year old. I think you underestimate what some women (with no bankable talents outside their bustlines) will do for money. I'm sure any one of them would marry him in a heartbeat just to get a little closer to his fortune.

[hajario]

It's funny . . . on paper, I should hate Kendra. I don't like fake boobs, or dumb girls, or bottle blondes. But damn if I don't find her one hot little number.

You're not alone.

[Cluricaun]

You're not alone.

But that donkey bray of a laugh that comes out of that girl is a total and complete deal killer.

[Guinastasia]

He might be married, and the "girlfriends" might be engaged, but you can bet that Hef has slept with every single one of them.

Of course he's pathetic, he's always been so.

I thought I read somewhere they mostly acted out some mild girl on girl kissing while he jerked off. Or something of that nature.

Personally, what I've always been grateful for to Playboy, not being its target demographic, are the interviews with various people. Years ago, for a school project, I read the complete interviews with John Lennon and Yoko Ono, which were interrupted by his untimely assassination.

Great, fascinating interviews, for the most part-but you can usually find them through other sources (the Lennon/Ono ones I found in our school library, believe it or not-it was in a book!)

[Huerta88]

I don't really think that he has slept with them. Granted, they may be ubersluts, but I don't think that the hot babes that like famous football players, young famous football players to whom they are engaged, are just dying to hop into the sack with an 82 year old. Any 82 year old. I think that this spin is much of the 'sad' of which the OP writes.

Yep. None of us really know if he's sleeping with them, or if so, what that amounts to, or how often. My own speculation (but, it's just that) is that for his ego's sake, there was/is probably some obligatory, awkward, half-assed, chemically-fueled, encounter or two with each "girlfriend," but that both parties, somewhat relieved to have gotten it out of the way, just sort of let it slide after that.

Because it really couldn't be anything else. Not just because of his physical limitations. Not just because of the ick factor. But because (IME) it's difficult to get motivated to sleep with someone who you know is not physically or romantically attracted to you, and it's essentially impossible that any of his "girlfriends" are. And, he's smart enough to know that.

There's an old and cynical line: you don't pay a prostitute to come home and sleep with you; you pay her to leave afterwards. I guess another spin on why I think Hefner's sad is he got that turned around 180 degrees -- he's surrounded by dumb ugly bimbos all the time, and he's probably not even getting any/much.

[Hazle Weatherfield]

I don't think any of the four (Hef and the girls) are pathetic. They're all getting what they want out of what they're doing; especially Kendra, who would be a poor assed white trash uneducated girl, otherwise (now she's a rich assed......) They've all got a splendid place to stay, awesome clothes, rides and food and they've all gotten to pursue their careers in ways that they NEVER couldv'e without the backing of Hef. Holly: producing photo shoots/layouts/issues, Bridgette: radio show, audition tapes, Kendra: uh, shaking her ass and meeting her favorite athletes and rappers (eh, she's too young to commit to a career, anyway.) Plus, they did that workout video and they had all always wanted to be in the mag and they got to. None of them would be doing what they're doing (much less so publicly) if they weren't getting anything out of it.

And it's damned fun to watch!

[Cluricaun]

And according to this news story (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/showbiz/2008-10/08/content_7087100.htm) Holly has moved out of the mansion. Bridget is still married to her husband since 1997 and Kendra is dating Hank Baskett of the Philly Eagles.

That's kind of pathetic.

[Captain Lance Murdoch]

When Hef was young he was a parody of the swinging guy. Now he's a parody of that parody. His "girlfriends" don't make him look virile, they make him a laughingstock. It would be hard for me to imagine a greater monument to bad taste than him.

[lunar elf]

Sounds like Holly and Hef have parted ways (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hDJOaKMoWhYgKsblT1QMM5EE-MJQD93MKFQ03), and she's still living in the house. He's looking for new girls...still kind of weird, creepy. Around 7 girls...sounds like Tila Tequila!

[outlierrn]

"he knew the a split was imminent after he told Madison that they would never wed or have kids'' :eek:


Ok, I'm going with pathetic now, but I didn't used to think so.

[PunditLisa]

His shelf life expired in the 70's. He didn't get the memo. Yup, he's pathetic.

[chowder]

[QUOTE=Alan Smithee Old people are creepy and disgusting!

I'm old matey and far from disgusting or creepy:mad:

Care to elaborate on your rather stupid statement?

[Cicero]

[QUOTE=Alan Smithee Old people are creepy and disgusting!

I'm old matey and far from disgusting or creepy:mad:

Care to elaborate on your rather stupid statement?

To be honest, I didn't read it as Alan Smithee saying that. I read it as him/ her saying it could be a way people think about older folk. And ihe/ she wasn't supportive of the idea.

Naturally, I can't talk for the poster.

[Baldwin]

The notion of bundling mild nudes, and tips on grooming or buying single malt scotch, and short fiction (a moribund genre in many ways), and celeb spottings -- kind of a weird mishmash, and each of those segments is amply catered to elsewhere.(Bolding mine.) I've got to admire that bit, though -- the short fiction, precisely because there are very few paying outlets for it these days. During the '60s and '70s, Playboy was known as the highest-paying market for short fiction, attracted top writers, and published a lot of great science fiction.

A couple of years ago I got a one-year subscription, almost out of pity, because they kept begging me. It was something like ten bucks for a year (which tells me they're making their money from advertisements, since my subscription could hardly have even paid for the printing). I let it lapse, have ignored their pleas to renew, yet the magazine keeps coming to my house.

The interviews these days seem to be mostly with people I'm not interested in; the political stuff I mainly agree with, but it's telling me what I already know; the fiction isn't what it once was (or perhaps I'm just remembering the highlights from many years ago).

As for the pictorials -- three problems for me.

1) Frankly, I've seen so many naked bodies on the Internet in the past decade that the titillation is simply gone.

2) The models tend to be young enough to be my children. (I realize, for some 47-year-old men, that would be a selling point.)

3) The current style of photography and choice of models really doesn't appeal to me. The latest issue (which includes one of the pictorials of "Top Ten" college girls), seems to come from a world in which every woman is completely hairless from the neck down (and are photographed and retouched in a way that makes them look artificially perfect). I miss the more realistic photography, and models that look like actual women, that I grew up with in the '70s. (Does the name Patti McGuire ring a bell to anyone?)

As for Hef -- it's the fate of most innovators to be left behind, as what was once revolutionary becomes quaint. Surrounding yourself with beautiful women in a fancy mansion sounds great, but anything can get old. (And one problem with the Playboy Channel was that many of the models are, frankly, not that bright. When they open their mouths and chatter inanely, it kind of ruins the appeal, which is based on fantasy.)

Okay, put yourself in Hefner's place -- having established the magazine in 1954, based on a sort of fantasy sophisticated bachelor lifestyle, where would you have gone from there?

[PunditLisa]

Okay, put yourself in Hefner's place -- having established the magazine in 1954, based on a sort of fantasy sophisticated bachelor lifestyle, where would you have gone from there?

Paul Newman segued from a cool, sexy actor into a much cooler, sexier philanthropist. Hef could have, and should have, followed suit.

Rent the Playboy Mansion to support the Susan G. Komen foundation. Hedonism for a good cause.

[gonzomax]

I disagree, though my sample size in roughly just the past year. Looking at the cartoons, for 90% of them I think, "huh, these guys just really like drawing boobs."

Your sample size is too small. They are famous for their cartoons and deservedly so.

[SaharaTea]

I think it's interesting that Holly moved out. Kind of sad really - she's spent the better part of a decade transforming herself into Hef's ideal woman, and for what? From the outside it was obvious that Hef was never going to marry and have babies with her. I wonder if he was giving her false hope for the sake of the show, or if she knew all along and stayed for the fame and lifestyle. Maybe she really was that delusional.

[Huerta88]

I think it's interesting that Holly moved out. Kind of sad really - she's spent the better part of a decade transforming herself into Hef's ideal woman, and for what? From the outside it was obvious that Hef was never going to marry and have babies with her. I wonder if he was giving her false hope for the sake of the show, or if she knew all along and stayed for the fame and lifestyle. Maybe she really was that delusional.

I don't feel bad about her at all. If she really thought it was a good, plausible, workable plan to marry and have children with an 84 year old man, she's the stupidest person who ever lived. If nothing else, is it not fairly thoughtless, even cruel, to contemplate bearing children whose father, as soon as they get to know him, will die?

But I don't think she is, in fact, the stupidest person on Earth (though likely closer to that end of the scale than the other). I think (to quote GW Plunkitt) she seen her opportunities and she took 'em.

Look, what is her skill set? Nil to none. She's not even very attractive. Yet she is now notorious/famous (same things these days) for no good reason, which is like Kruggerrands for an attention whore. She will continue to make money for nothing as a D list celeb for the foreseeable future. As for her family/children opportunities, assuming that's important to her? She's 28. Plenty of time.

Hefner asserting that he's going to go back to seven "girlfriends" confirms my OP. Is he that desperate for attention, that insecure, that bent on proving his own (non-existent) virility? "If I have one 'girlfriend' I'm virile, so seven girlfriends makes me seven times more virile!" Yes "Hef. " Yes, that's how the math works, you dope. Almost reminds me of Magic Johnson's press conference after his HIV announcement when he proclaimed (to the awkwardness of his progressive supporters) that contrary to what people were whispering he was "very much a man!" I wasn't the only one who thought, gee, if you have to make a point of insisting on it, maybe those rumors about you and Eddie and Arsenio aren't as crazy as they sounded . . . .

[Huerta88]

Hefner asserting that he's going to go back to seven "girlfriends" confirms my OP. Is he that desperate for attention, that insecure, that bent on proving his own (non-existent) virility? "If I have one 'girlfriend' I'm virile, so seven girlfriends makes me seven times more virile!" Yes "Hef. " Yes, that's how the math works, you dope. Almost reminds me of Magic Johnson's press conference after his HIV announcement when he proclaimed (to the awkwardness of his progressive supporters) that contrary to what people were whispering he was "very much a man!" I wasn't the only one who thought, gee, if you have to make a point of insisting on it, maybe those rumors about you and Eddie and Arsenio aren't as crazy as they sounded . . . .
Okay, indulge my first taking advantage of the relaxed zombie rule (and yes, thie remains as pointless as it was before), but:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2020281/Hugh-Hefner-defends-reputation-Twitter-Crystal-Harris-spills-bedroom-secrets.html

Presumably if he's going to the trouble to post this stuff, he expects someone to believe it (and, he believes it's important that they do so), and both notions remain as pathetic as ever (more pathetic with every passing day and the inevitable future humiliating disclosures by Playmates willing to violate their non-disclosure agreements for attention, money, indiscretion, whatever).

Nobody's doing a reality show about the personal life of Arthur Sulzberger Sr. or any other denizen of a dying old-media publishing empire -- 'cause it'd be irrelevant, disgusting, and pointless. How does this odious old fool rate any different treatment, and what's wrong with our culture for indulging in this train wreck, especially with something as naff and dated as the Playboy brand?

[/RO]

[Boyo Jim]

Interesting that her after-the-fact apology didn't repudiate what she said. Apparently she's sorry she spoke the truth.

But I give Hef a break because IMO we owe him a tremendous debt. He was among the first American pop cultural figures to celebrate sex, to endorse it outside of the religious confines of marriage and procreation. We are all the better for it.

[CalMeacham]

I don't think he's pathetic at all, as others have noted. He created a magazine that has been phenomenally successful and argued usefully for a great many freedoms -- including Freedom of the Press and self-expression. You can call him sexist, but he's as much a product of his times as anyone, and his vision of sexual freedom included that freedom for women, as well.


The thing that amazes me about him is that, when you step back and look at him, Hef was a Nerd, but nobody thinks of him as one.

-- He loved science fiction (it's no accident that his magazine has featured lots of work by noted science fiction writers like Asimov, Clarke, and Bradbury, and has paid top dollar for them -- more than the pulps. And Langelaan's The Fly was first published in Playboy).

-- He loved comics, not only featuring plenty of top-notch cartoonists (some of whom he stole from Mad), but in the 1980s running "Pklayboy Funnies", some elements of which still appear in the magazine.

--He loved James Bond, publishing some of Fleming's stuff for the first time, and associating his magazine strongly with the Bond movies, featuring pictorials and features on them (and getting featured in the films as well -- Bond carries a Playboy Club membership card in Diamonds are Forever). They ran some of Benson's later Bond stories in Playboy as well.


-- His whole magazine was essentially a Guide on How Not to Be a Nerd, including articles on how to dress properly, while restaurants to go yo, which beverages to drink, which music to listen to, and so on.

[Chimera]

If she really only did have sex with him once, and was not turned on by him at all...

Then how does she explain/defend getting anywhere near marrying him?

This makes her look like the lowest form of gold digging human trash.

[Poysyn]

Well, according to all of the articles linked - the "girls" do have sex with him - for about a minute to two minutes each, on Wed or Fri nights, after he has some viagra, with no condom.

[Stink Fish Pot]

The only thing I find pathetic about Hef is his choice of clothing. The smoking jacket/pajamas-n-slippers-in-velour thing is soooooo played.

The girlfriend-a-day thing I never believed. Not that he cares one way or the other. Hef believes in the "any publicity is good publicity" philosophy.

I was just thinking about the last time I actually saw a Playboy... and I remembered! It was the issue with Elle McPherson on the cover and in a photo layout. She's a beautiful woman, and they sandblasted her so much in those pictures, I hardly recognized her. (For you Seinfeld fans, it's the same issue George has in his desk in his office at Yankee Stadium when the bomb squad opened his desk drawers looking for a bomb).

Which takes me back to my thought about Hef. I think he knows that once he dies, the bunny dies. Playboy's target audience seems to have aged with the magazine. I don't think 18-25 year olds buy playboy for wank material, simply because what they've grown up with on the internet is far too explicit for anyone to get real excited about it. They will buy a Hustler, or a Club, or whatever is out there now that can capture the attention of the average 18-25 year old.

The magazine won't change when he dies. It will die. It will instantly become irrelevant.

[JRDelirious]

Good point made by CalMeacham - Playboy in its heyday included a lot of material on how to pass for a Hep Cat while being (or thinking you were) actually a longhair.

Huerta88, I disagree with the thread title proposition. I can understand why NOW he may be seen by many as pathetic for various reasons described in other posts and links, but IMO that was not "always so", there was a time when his persona and style WERE within the realm of the hip. The world changed.

Part of what grates today is his apparent eager (as opposed to clearly ironic or self-parodying) insistence in living out the role of the "Playboy Hef" character. I believe if he were to, so to speak, "add more smilies" to let us know he's aware this is ridiculous and he's just playing, it would not cause such discomfort.

[Paul in Qatar]

OK, the only way to save the Hef character is to let him grow up into a cool, mellow pot-smoking, houseboat-living, golf-playing uncle figure. Then we invent a nephew (or nephew and niece) character to take over the brand. Young people interested in travel, sport, personal finance and so on.

These new characters take over as symbols of the brand and allow Uncle Hef to make occasional appearances giving advice and so on.

[PandaBear77]

Hugh Hefner is certainly a very smart businessman and has made bazillions off of what turned out to be a Really Good Idea(tm). Chances are he's probably done some good with his cash as well.

That said, he's not the kind of man I'd want my daughter to marry, date or even have coffee with.

[RandMcnally]

Which takes me back to my thought about Hef. I think he knows that once he dies, the bunny dies. Playboy's target audience seems to have aged with the magazine. I don't think 18-25 year olds buy playboy for wank material, simply because what they've grown up with on the internet is far too explicit for anyone to get real excited about it. They will buy a Hustler, or a Club, or whatever is out there now that can capture the attention of the average 18-25 year old.

I honestly can't imagine 18-25 year olds buying any magazine for wank materiel.I'm at the tail end of that demographic and all I've really known is the internet, and those younger than me even moreso.

[Stink Fish Pot]

I honestly can't imagine 18-25 year olds buying any magazine for wank materiel.I'm at the tail end of that demographic and all I've really known is the internet, and those younger than me even moreso.

There you go then. So what would you buy a Playboy for? The cartoons? The articles? The airbrushed women? I doubt it.

Add to that the fact that his daughter who is running the show is in her mid 50's (I think), and I'm guessing she has no clue on what to do with the brand after her father dies.

Hef had a great run, and made a lot of money. Playboy, for many reasons, is one of the iconic magazines of the 20th century. But I don't believe it holds much relevance today. I will admit that I am not familiar at all with what else the brand has branched out into, so if anyone is a stock holder or knows what Playboy has in their portfolio, that would be what to focus on. I think the magazine exists purely out of habit. They have one thing that no other magazine has, and that's the ability to publish a famous woman being nude and generating a lot of buzz. No other magazine has that ability (they can post pictures, but everyone knows Playboy's photos will be classy, airbrushed, and very PG ish. You aren't getting Elle McPherson, for example, to pose nude in Hustler with her ass in your face, spread open wide enough to drive a bus in. She's also not sharing the photo shoot with anyone or acting out any sex scenes.

That's why Playboy still has some value. It provides women of Hollywood with the one place they can go and bear all and be dealt with with respect.

[Dewey Finn]

NBC is going to be showing a series called The Playboy Club. It's basically an attempt at capitalizing on the 60s appeal of Mad Men and I doubt that the series will succeed. But if it does and someone smart is running Playboy Enterprises, they could revive the brand. Perhaps a new chain of clubs? Perhaps a popular website? I don't see a revival of the magazine, given that print media is failing everywhere.

[Huerta88]

The thing that amazes me about him is that, when you step back and look at him, Hef was a Nerd, but nobody thinks of him as one.
Oh, but I do, and I think my long-ago OP and other posts convey that. He was, in sociological terms, a beta-turned-alpha-through-business-success, and it shone through (still does) in all his fawning obeisance to his trite obsession with boring surgically enhanced vapid blondes and superficial coolness. An earlier prototype for Gates, Jobs, etc. -- first you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.

He loved science fiction
This alone contradicts "nobody thinks of him as [a nerd]." This is a good part of it for me.

He loved James Bond, publishing some of Fleming's stuff for the first time, and associating his magazine strongly with the Bond movies, featuring pictorials and features on them (and getting featured in the films as well -- Bond carries a Playboy Club membership card in Diamonds are Forever). They ran some of Benson's later Bond stories in Playboy as well.
Bond is yet another homoerotic strong-guy-porn-for-weak-betas prototype.

His whole magazine was essentially a Guide on How Not to Be a Nerd, including articles on how to dress properly, while restaurants to go yo, which beverages to drink, which music to listen to, and so on.
Normal heterosexual men don't read how-to guides on how-to-be-a-man.

Self-help magazines are generally read by . . . women.

This stuff is generally the province of closeted publications like Details and FHM. To my point precisely, this is one of the more pathetic things about Playboy even to this day. The how-do-I-knot-my-bowtie or which-Scotch-should-I-drink-to-impress-my-girlfriend or how-do-I-satisfy-my-lover crap that pollutes the Playboy Advisor every month is pathetic. Do you think Navy Seals, or whatever the real equivalent of James Bond is, learn how to impress or bed women by reading fey magazine articles? Like Hell they do, and like Hell is it possible to learn that stuff by reading prissy articles by pasty eighty year old Midwestern white dorks who have bribed dumbass California bimbos into posing as their grotesque "girlfriends."

[simple homer]

What I do not believe is Crystal or other women claiming that he only lasts one or two minutes while having sex.

He must be a bit jaded and numb after having sex for probably the last 70 years.
Why would he be so excited that he only lasts "two seconds in bed" ?

Viagra may make you hard, but it also tends to delay orgasm.

I would guess that it would take a long time for him to finish.

[Huerta88]

What I do not believe is Crystal or other women claiming that he only lasts one or two minutes while having sex.

He must be a bit jaded and numb after having sex for probably the last 70 years.
Why would he be so excited that he only lasts "two seconds in bed" ?

Viagra may make you hard, but it also tends to delay orgasm.

I would guess that it would take a long time for him to finish.

The accounts I read (can't find them momentarily) are that they have very artificial staged sessions where the multiple "girlfriends" mess with him (gross) then the main one finishes him off, which is consistent with your impression. It all seems pretty sad.

[Argent Towers]

Oh, but I do, and I think my long-ago OP and other posts convey that. He was, in sociological terms, a beta-turned-alpha-through-business-success, and it shone through (still does) in all his fawning obeisance to his trite obsession with boring surgically enhanced vapid blondes and superficial coolness. An earlier prototype for Gates, Jobs, etc. -- first you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women.

You don't need to be some kind of brute to be "alpha." Nobody who is ambitious and shrewd enough to build a multimillion dollar magazine empire, lifestyle phenomenon and major cultural milestone through his own hard work is a "beta."


This alone contradicts "nobody thinks of him as [a nerd]." This is a good part of it for me.

Since when does simply being financially successful equal "nerd?" It's not like Hefner spent every day reading comics. To build a publishing empire, you need to be a confident businessman, have social pull, be good at talking to people and convincing them that you're worth their advertising dollars...none of that is "nerd," dude. It's salesmanship.

Bond is yet another homoerotic strong-guy-porn-for-weak-betas prototype.

:rolleyes: Please. It's a clever, humorous and engaging series of novels and films with an enduring character and interesting settings. It's not "strong-guy-porn."

Normal heterosexual men don't read how-to guides on how-to-be-a-man. Self-help magazines are generally read by . . . women.

I think you have a very, very skewed and constricted vision of what is normal and what isn't.

This stuff is generally the province of closeted publications like Details and FHM. To my point precisely, this is one of the more pathetic things about Playboy even to this day. The how-do-I-knot-my-bowtie or which-Scotch-should-I-drink-to-impress-my-girlfriend or how-do-I-satisfy-my-lover crap that pollutes the Playboy Advisor every month is pathetic.

Some men are interested in fashion; some are interested in Scotch; most guys could probably use tips on how to be better in bed. How is any of this pathetic?

Do you think Navy Seals, or whatever the real equivalent of James Bond is, learn how to impress or bed women by reading fey magazine articles? Like Hell they do, and like Hell is it possible to learn that stuff by reading prissy articles by pasty eighty year old Midwestern white dorks who have bribed dumbass California bimbos into posing as their grotesque "girlfriends."


I think Navy SEALs are more concerned with doing their extremely demanding jobs professionally and safely than with impressing and bedding women. The whole worship of Navy SEALs and other elite commandos is an absurd creation of popular culture and too many guys are definitely too into it, but that has nothing to do with Playboy or Hefner.

[panaccione]

I just wanted to come in here and say ya'll are CRAZY!! HEF IS DA MAN!!! :)

[JRDelirious]

Normal heterosexual men don't read how-to guides on how-to-be-a-man.

Self-help magazines are generally read by . . . women.


:dubious: Seriously? Really?

So "normal heterosexual" men are just born knowing? And I suppose "Alphas" are just born, as well? :rolleyes: