Hearing voices?

[insider]

When psychiatric patients hear voices, do they actually hear anything or are there really sound implulses that do not orginate in the ear? Any help. Thanks

[Bob Scene]

You're just jealous cause the voices only talk to me.

[Dr_Paprika]

Psychotic patients certainly think they can hear people talking to them. Often they identify the voices as being inside their head, but not always. After treatment, they often have enough insight to realize their brain is "playing tricks" on them. In more severe psychosis, they may hear several voices. Usually the voices make negative comments consistent with their deflated self-esteem, sometimes they make suggestions, occasionally voices say only positive comments such as "Stay the course, big insider, you're doing just super". These patients miss the voices when they go.

[peace]

Paprica's respobse might be correct, but it does not answer the question as it was asked.
Q: or are there really sound implulses that do not orginate in the ear?
If you mean "sound waves" or "sounds", the answer is NO by definition. (BTW, What originates in the ear?) Or do you mean to say "sound impulses" in the brain? Please explain because there are no "sound impulses" in the brain, only electrical or chemica, activity (no light, etc.)
Vocal hallucinations are by definition "sound" only in patient's brain; if somebody else hears them, they are real. Electrical brain activity was registered during hallucinations. At this time it is not possible to pinpoint it to the neurons which normally "hear" voices. It's actually more complicated, because simple "hearing" does not equal "voice hearing", i.e. the brain "hear" and analyzes sounds (makes sense of them) separately.

[Astroboy14]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who occassionally hears voices (we're all a little crazy!) [no we're not!!]

For me, every once in a while I will here someone say my name... weird! I can be laying in bed, all by my lonesome :( and I'll hear "Dan" just as clear as day!

Sometimes I can identify the voice, sometimes not, but it always makes me smile! I think my brain is just messing with me...

[Uniball]

When I'm tanked, sometimes I do hear voices. And they're all in my head, so I guess they're not "real audio" voices; they're more like my brain "recalling" what's a voice sounds like. Or something like that.

[Boris B]

One thing I read recently, and I'll try to find the source, was that when schizophrenics hear voice, the parts of their brain associated with hearing are quite active, while the parts of their brain assocaited with speaking are not. This was said to indicate that the schizophrenics are not simply talking to themselves silently.

I'm not sure if these patients were compared to people from the general population who were told just to talk to themselves silently while the brain scan was going on. That would be an interesting study - if "silent self-talk" does make your speech-oriented brain zones active, then schizophrenic voice-hearing is definitely something different. (Obviously, "out-loud self-talk" would make your speech centers fire, but the question, does just thinking, "Remember your car keys, me!" constitute a speech activity.)

Anyway, audio hallucinations are a fascinating part of psychology which isn't completely understood by the pros (and is, as you might expect, not understood at all by me). It's interesting that schizophrenics tend to hear so many voices saying grammatically-correct, discernible things. It's not like taking some hallucinogen and hearing the pretty flowers playing the glockenspiel. Non-voice hallucinations may be a part of a schizophrenic's inner world, but I haven't heard nearly as much about them.

I think what's going on is best described by the word's etymology - schizophrenia means "divided self" if I'm not mistaken. Some people take this too literally and think it means multiple personality disorder; it doesn't. What it does mean is that a schizophrenic is separated from certain parts of her or his own mind. So a thought that you or I might consider to be figuratively "that nagging little voice" becomes just that in the mind of the patient, only the poor individual can't make it stop, and can't integrate it into the rest of the mind. After all, if the voice tells you to remember your keys, you can do that; what if the voice told you they were watching you, and that you couldn't go home, and had to walk the streets alone day and night? It's a scary thought.

But obviously schizophrenia differs a lot from patient to patient. Not all the hallucinations are the same, or even comparable.

[Uniball]

Audio hallucinations are also fairly common in people with sleep deprivation. It's like when you're awake, but 'dreaming' about something speaking to you. Kinda hard to explain, tho, you have to experience it. But the voice is more sensed, in the brain, than actually "heard".

[AndyKeats]

Originally posted by Uniball
Audio hallucinations are also fairly common in people with sleep deprivation. It's like when you're awake, but 'dreaming' about something speaking to you. Kinda hard to explain, tho, you have to experience it. But the voice is more sensed, in the brain, than actually "heard".

I'm generally sleep deprived, and experience the waking dream phenomenom on a regular basis. Sometimes I can close my eyes and experience the dream then open my eyes and experience reality. It is quite weird, even when my eyes are open, it is like the dream is going on in the background, I can hear it sometimes.

Also, I experience audio and visual anomalies, such as seeing somebody move in the corner of my eyes, but when I turn to look, nobody is there, or like I'll be upstairs and hear the TV on downstairs, but when I go down to look, the TV is not really on.

This stuff really freaked me out when I was kid, I thought our house was haunted. But now as an adult, it is something I am used to, and doesn't happen that often anymore.

[Astroboy14]

Anyway, audio hallucinations are a fascinating part of psychology which isn't completely understood by the pros

I used to work in a psychiatry hospital... and none of the "pros" understand what makes the human mind do anything!

This is why psychology is called a "soft" science...

don't mean to sound anti-psychology... but I am!

[pldennison]

Originally posted by Astroboy14
Anyway, audio hallucinations are a fascinating part of psychology which isn't completely understood by the pros

I used to work in a psychiatry hospital... and none of the "pros" understand what makes the human mind do anything!

This is why psychology is called a "soft" science...

don't mean to sound anti-psychology... but I am!

Of course, everyone should remember that psychiatry and psychology are two very different things. And while there may be ongiong battles over the therapeutic and diagnostic tools used by psychiatrists, they are in fact still MDs, whereas psychologists are not.

[Astroboy14]

Of course, everyone should remember that psychiatry and psychology are two very different things. And while there may be ongiong battles over the therapeutic and diagnostic tools used by psychiatrists, they are in fact still MDs, whereas psychologists are not.

Point acknowledged... but I still think psychology & psychiatry are light years away from acually doing anything other than treating symptoms with mega-doses of drugs that seem to work without anyone knowing why...

[Satchmo]

Have I mentioned today that sometimes the voices in my head yodel? I really hate that.

[peace]

Satchmo, many years ago a composer, normal otherwise, told me that he "hears music in his head". He thought, for the long time, that everybody heard music and was very surprised that it was not so. I do not mean familiar musical recollections we all experience.He hears unheard music, almost constantly. And I assume the OP was about other voices, not the inner speech, like "Remember your car keys".

[handy]

Being pretty deaf, I can answer this one. They are extremely clear voices but they are not true audio.

I think that everyone hears voices but they don't understand that is what they are hearing. They are often seeing & hearing thoughts, which is similar. Im sure all of you can hear imaginary music if you put your mind to it.

It's quite alright if you hear voices in your head. It's like channels on a tv, the real psychotics tune into a channel & it becomes their reality.

[Melpomene]

People don't hear voices in their heads! It's just a load of (shut up! I'm busy right now! No, killing mom isn't until tomorrow-) bullpoopy perpetuated by murderers who need excuses for their behavior.

;)

[peace]

Melpomene, this is a bit off topic, but I'll share my opinion, mods permitting. Psychotic people do "hear" voices; at least with their deranged minds they cannot distinguish between the real and "internal" voices. Criminals claim that they "hear voices". It may or may not be true (criminals may be psychotic). But I, for instance, will not kill anyone, whether ordered by you or a "voice". Acting on anyone commands (real or "heard") is illegal in my opinion and I do not understand why some juries view it as "mitigating" circumstance.

[Melpomene]

Originally posted by peace
Melpomene, this is a bit off topic, but I'll share my opinion, mods permitting. Psychotic people do "hear" voices; at least with their deranged minds they cannot distinguish between the real and "internal" voices. Criminals claim that they "hear voices". It may or may not be true (criminals may be psychotic). But I, for instance, will not kill anyone, whether ordered by you or a "voice". Acting on anyone commands (real or "heard") is illegal in my opinion and I do not understand why some juries view it as "mitigating" circumstance.

I understand that peace. Thank you. I was simply trying to throw in some light humor. I've spent much of my free time studying habitual murderers, particularly serial killers. I apologize if you took my post as either offensive or literal. From now on I will keep my humor to the "appropriate" threads.

Hoping this doesn't kill a good thread,
Melpomene

[handy]

Melpomene, that's just what I said. It's like tv, regular people just listen to the various channels, but psychotics tune in to one specific channel & it becomes their reality. cool too. It takes a lot of intelligence to make a new reality, so high IQ people are often excellent subjects.

[panamajack]

peace, I think the mitigating circumstances are not simply the psychotic persons saying, "I was only following orders!" to get out of it. The fact that they hear/heard voices is in indication of their irrationality. It's difficult to pin down what exactly the voices are or what their power is, but most every psychiatrist will agree that someone hearing voices ordering them around is suffering from serious mental illness.

Also consider that if you believe those who have heard them, the voices are constant -- or nearly so. It's not just the occasional whispered name or phrase a lot of people might hallucinate. Imagine being shouted at, sung at, talked at by more than one person that you don't know how to quiet, and who won't stop for hours at a time. It's probably even worse than that, since you may or may not know it's all in your mind, and others may not believe you.

Side note : While I've seen what happens with psychosis, joking about it is something I do still find funny -- though hopefully one realizes that it is gallows humor, not just something that is remote and not very serious. On the other hand, I hope it is something that remains remote for as many as possible.

[Dr_Paprika]

Peace, I did not answer the OP because I couldn't. I'm not sure anyone can, the way it was posed.

I have a great deal of sympathy for schizophrenics. Contrary to your implications, this population has a much lower incidence of violent acts than the general population. In practice, they are often victims of horrible abuse, neglect and manipulation. Your comment about legal defence was, well, badly worded. I'm trying to be diplomatic here.

Psychiarists, in my view, still understand very little about the human mind. Despite the MD, or having a different focus from psychologists or neurologists, the understanding of the brain is still very primitive. We don't know how the most successful psychiatric drugs work, except in general terms. This science will not be recognizable in twenty years.

[Uniball]

Originally posted by peace
Melpomene, this is a bit off topic, but I'll share my opinion, mods permitting. Psychotic people do "hear" voices; at least with their deranged minds they cannot distinguish between the real and "internal" voices.

Wait a minute. You don't need to have a "deranged" mind to hear voices. Sometimes it happens when your mind is too tired and stressed, or you're too drunk. And that doesn't mean you're nuts.

[Ringo]

Whew! I hope what I've got contributes.

I've had audio hallucinations most of my life. To address a point raised above, the source is most often not a bona fide acoustic event; i.e., most often it is activity wholly contained within the nervous system and no real sound waves contribute. But, sometimes the audio hallucinations I've experienced can be triggered or accompanied by external stimuli. When sitting at my computer on a relatively peaceful Saturday afternoon the sound of the AC compressor chugging away outside my window can mutate into a chant or a rock song. A dripping faucet may remind me of the old newscasts that had the sound of teletypes in the background and some muffled news anchor-like voice sounds might seem to be there as well.

Those sorts of things are rarely intelligible speech, but I've had exactly the experience Uniball describes where, at a quiet time, I'll hear my name as if somebody was in the room and said it. FWIW, I have tinnitus that waxes and wanes, but is sometimes quite pronounced (to the point that I sometimes think - no, I don't really - that others in the room should be able to hear it if they got close enough to my ears).

Audio hallucinations experienced as commanding voices by the deranged have been mentioned as well. All I'll say is 1) as noted, what I hear is usually not intelligible speech, 2) when I do "hear" these things I am quite aware that they are not real and 3) if I was to hear a voice telling me to, say, kill the postman I'd say "Bugger off Evil Voice, I like the postman, he brings me checks."

[peace]

Beatle, relax. You know, they ain't "hallucinations". Perhaps, they are called "illusions".
Uniball, I didn't use the term "nuts", you did, whatever it means to you. If you are tired or stressed or drunk to the point of "hearing voices", you mind is deranged. Do you hear them now?

[tcgterry]

Well, I have alaso heard voices talking to me and sometimes I hear sounds that are not really there. But I'm not psychotic, and if a voice told me someothing like "vote for your communist candidate" I would tell it to screw off :-)!!!

Also, I have this odd ability sometimes to seemingly imagine voices in my head then hear them with my own two ears... I have too concentrate to do this and it usually happens only right after I fall asleep.

Now this is just my personal opinion. I think if other people tried to actually imagine voices and concentrate on those voices then they could "hear" them also with their own ears. I think that God may be talking to may NAD I think he/she talks to US ALL by this way, just some listen and others don't listen to God.

This is my first post ever to these message boards so I hope you like my signature... I have a real interest in Urban legends, and subsequently mocking them sometimes as well also *GRIN*

[Uniball]

Originally posted by peace
Beatle, relax. You know, they ain't "hallucinations". Perhaps, they are called "illusions".
Uniball, I didn't use the term "nuts", you did, whatever it means to you. If you are tired or stressed or drunk to the point of "hearing voices", you mind is deranged. Do you hear them now?

Well, maybe I misunderstood the word 'deranged'. To me, with my poor EASL, the only refence I have is that movie about the serial killer (Deranged).

[handy]

"The fact that they hear/heard voices is in indication of their
irrationality. It's difficult to pin down what exactly the voices are or what their power is, but most
every psychiatrist will agree that someone hearing voices ordering them around is suffering from
serious mental illness. "


That's boloney. I'd like to see a site. Im sure you won't find one.

[mega the roo]

When I went to the psychiatrist about the voices that I hear, he was going to put me on meds.. then he realized that the voices weren't hallucinations, but that I actually do hear them in my head.

He was so baffled by this that he brought in another psychiatrist, and two hours later, when they had run out of ideas or questions they started joking around, "does it happen when there's a full moon?"

Normally that wouldn't have bothered me, but it was less than a year ago that the voices made me want to jump out of my car. And although I was crying hysterically, nobody took my seriously.

Not for a while, anyway.

[peace]

Uniball, use a dictionary (hard copy or on line) for word definitions. Movies are for entertainment only. Derange=insane, abnormal, etc.

A short note. We all may have occasional "illusions", with all our senses. In the case of sonic "illusions", this happens: "Honey, did you call me?". NO (surprise).
In the OP it was clearly stated "psychotic patients". Let's keep answers within "psychotic patients".
If anyone "hears voices", especially if they are distinct, on regular basis, see your doctor.

[Dr_Paprika]

Having done some psychiatry, I would suggest that hearing voices just on waking or falling asleep (hypnagogic and hypnapompic hallucinations) are not that worrisome, although they are seen in cataplexy.

Everybody misinterprets sound once in a while. Thinking someone calls your name once in a while is normal. If this happens very often and is bothersome, some people do benefit from very low doses of neuroleptics. I would not call these people deranged. I would not call a full blown schizophrenic deranged, either.

Having voices order you around... well it is not necessarily a sign of serious mental illness, especially if you have the insight to know the voices are not "real" (plausible). Schizophrenics do not have this insight. If they tell you to get out of your car (or else...) and you realize they are "fake", there may be an underlying diagnosis of obsessive-compulsive traits. Psychosis itself is a spectrum. Depression can have psychotic features, people can have a single brief psychotic episode, people can have anic-depression greater than their psychosis (schizoaffective) or can be schizophrenic.

[Ringo]

Beatle, relax.

Huh? I'm not worried about anything. But it's a weekend, so perhaps I'll just relax for the fun of it. Anyway, the perceptions to which I referred most definitely qualify as hallucinations.

[handy]

"He was so baffled by this that he brought in another psychiatrist, and two hours later, when they
had run out of ideas or questions they started joking around, "does it happen when there's a full
moon?"

Psychiatrists are often more nuts than their patients. You'd be surprised how many hours a shrink has to spend with another shrink before they can get a license.

[IBBen]

I hate to quote Trivial Pursuit after learning that the game is rife with inaccuracy but I must.

Q: What is the most common type of hallucination?
A: Auditory

And like Beatle, I have experienced what seem to be lucid auditory hallucinations while hearing the repetetive sounds eminating from things like the dishwasher, lawnmower, or a washer/dryer. I remember lying in bed as a kid, listening to the clothes tumble in the dryer outside my bedroom and creating music in my mind. Occasionally the washing machine would enter a spin cycle which combined with the clanks of zippers and buttons in the dryer and punk rock was born! As an adult, I seem to have somewhat lost touch with my creative consciousness but I still occasionally enjoy a creative auditory hallicination.

Imagination or Insanity? I could care less, it is an entertaining distraction.

[Surgoshan]

And remember the distinction that was made earlier between occasional hallucinations (once in a while before going to bed) and what those with a real problem hear, a melange of voices that go on for an extended period of time.

The reason they often "get off" for it is because they have a problem, and it seriously effects their judgement. So, instead of being put in an electric chair for a gruesome triple murder, they get sent to a psychiatric ward in order that they may, possibly be cured.

I don't know how old it is, but the idea of not killing the insane when they do wrong is based on a fairly simple premise.

Many say the penal system has (at least) two purposes. Punishment and reform. How can you possibly punish someone who is incapable of understanding that what he did was wrong?

[handy]

Do born completely deaf people hear voices or do they see them?

[Chronos]

For that matter, handy, if a person were born deaf and "heard" voices, would they even know that that's what they were?

[handy]

Chronos, I could ask my sign language teacher wed night.