Colin Powell endorses Obama

[Lobohan]

On Meet the Press right now Colin Powell just endorsed Obama in a terrific speech outlining the failures of the McCain campaign and the successes of the Obama campaign.

To those supporting McCain, does this change your opinion? To those who think Obama is inexperienced do you re-evaluate your stance in the light of his endorsement?

No link yet, as the interview is still on.

[Jolly Roger]

I wonder if McCain will smear Powell...or Obama for some association with him. :rolleyes:

[tygre]

From the CNN article http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html

"Another source close to Powell said he has known the Republican nominee for more than three decades "and likes him and is looking for a reason to vote for him. He hasn't found it yet."

[Onomatopoeia]

Powell's endorsement was inevitable and expected, IMO. I don't believe, however, endorsements mean as much as people would like them to. Powell's endorsement will be no different, other than providing additional fodder to those who gleefully stir the soup of racism with cries of "Powell's black, of course he endorsed Obama." I predict conservatives will now crawl out of the woodwork to say Powell is not, nor has he ever been, a REAL Republican, and castigate him ad-nauseam for everything he's ever done in his life.

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.

[RickJay]

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.
I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I kind of am okay with this, since it'll actually correct the general impression of Powell closer to the truth (IMHO.) Again, IMHO, Powell is not the hero he's made out to be; I think he's a sycophantic careerist. I hope this wins Obama a vote or two all the same, and suspect it will.

[Hamlet]

Given his earlier water carrying for this administration, there is part of me that is happy that Powell will be subjected to the politics of personal destruction from the right.

[IClaudius]

A powerful and moving endorsement.

Powell, your stature may have been diminished in my eyes since you knowingly presented false and dubious intelligence to the U.N. Security Council and worked in the Bush Administration. But I've always felt you were more trying to be the bona fide good soldier, serving at the will of the president out of a sense of duty, which transcended many private disagreements. It is also hard to fault you too much for thinking you could do more on the inside than the outside, and trying, but losing, in all those pivotal fights against Cheney. You may not have been able to be too vocal in these fights, but you worked in other ways I am prepared to credit, including letting Wilkerson take the gloves off and catalogue some of these things.

It has been a difficult time no doubt. But you've made the right decision here, and your wise words will hopefully carry momentum for Obama into the White House as the next president.

[Harborwolf]

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.I can tell you that right now Fox News isn't talking about it at all. They're talking about ACORN at present.

[DSeid]

Powell's endorsement was inevitable and expected, IMO. I don't believe, however, endorsements mean as much as people would like them to. Powell's endorsement will be no different, other than providing additional fodder to those who gleefully stir the soup of racism with cries of "Powell's black, of course he endorsed Obama." I predict conservatives will now crawl out of the woodwork to say Powell is not, nor has he ever been, a REAL Republican, and castigate him ad-nauseam for everything he's ever done in his life.

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.
Perhaps. And if so what will be the effect on the election? Time run down on the clock at the least. No votes gathered for McCain, and maybe a few lost for more negativity from his team.

Powell, if he wants a role in appointed political life will be seeing it from an Obama administration, not from Team Limbaugh and Hannity

[Harborwolf]

I can tell you that right now Fox News isn't talking about it at all. They're talking about ACORN at present.And CNN has already moved on as well. This isn't getting that much coverage at present.

[Soggy Biscuit]

Colin Powell knows how to win wars!!!

[Onomatopoeia]

MSNBC has a video of Powell's endorsement up now http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27265490#27265490

[John Mace]

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.

Want to bet about that? Not Limbaugh, but FoxNews.

This isn't getting a whole lot of traction right now, but I think we can say that McCain is now forked. Powell represents the moderate wing of the GOP, and if McCain can't keep that block, then he can't win.

[Onomatopoeia]

Perhaps. And if so what will be the effect on the election? Time run down on the clock at the least. No votes gathered for McCain, and maybe a few lost for more negativity from his team. Although it may, perhaps, possibly help garner a few additional votes for Obama, it will definitely serve to further galvanize the Republican base. In the end, I don't think Powell's endorsement will make an appreciable difference on the election.

[Morgenstern]

This is big. With all the guilt by association charges leveled by McCain's team against Obama, the Obama/Powell connection is great news.

[RickJay]

I can tell you that right now Fox News isn't talking about it at all. They're talking about ACORN at present.
Top headline on Fox News's website: "Powell Endorses Obama." 10:33 EDT, October 19.

It's also leading on, as near as I can tell, every other major news site.

[Onomatopoeia]

News outlets in the main may not be all over this yet, but Wingnutia definitely is. The comments on FOX News are appalling, although not unexpected. Anyone check out the FReepers yet? I would, but I just took a shower.

[Menocchio]

Time run down on the clock at the least.

This is it. McCain has nothing left at this point but time, and if Obama can dominate news cycles, he doesn't even have that. This will be the big political story Monday morning, and possibly further into the week if McCain doesn't pull another stunt (which could backfire).

It's not a knock-out blow (there's no such thing), but Powell will carry Obama a few inches closer to the finish line.

[IClaudius]

Although it may, perhaps, possibly help garner a few additional votes for Obama, it will definitely serve to further galvanize the Republican base. In the end, I don't think Powell's endorsement will make an appreciable difference on the election.
Oh, I don't know. There are probably are a fair few moderate Republicans and military-centric voters, and westerners, who may have lingering uncertainties about Obama.

Powell is still a very respected figure in those circles, especially the older voters, and his endorsement will carry at least some weight. At the very least it will suck oxygen from the McCain campaign going into the general and make it harder to turn the narrative around.

Also, let me just say how wonderful and timely Powell's comment was about so-what about a Muslim American President.
http://img129.hotlinkimage.com/thumb/12138046.jpeg (http://img129.hotlinkimage.com/img.php?id=12138046&q=)

[Frank]

FOXNews and Limbaugh are going to have a field day...er week with this. By this time next week, Powell will be a terrorist sympathizer.
Perhaps they'll attack him for lying about Iraq.

[Onomatopoeia]

Perhaps they'll attack him for lying about Iraq.Hah! That'd be something, wouldn't it? Attack Powell for helping lie us into the Iraq war while clinging to the idea that going into Iraq was the right thing to do. I'm dying to see how this gets parsed.

[Peanut Gallery]

And quite a hearty endorsement too. A pretty good Obama stump speech that nailed the state of the campaign, and eviscerated McPalin. I had doubted Colin. I halfway expected him to get on there this morning and tow the party line. Glad he didn't. He is still a douche for the UN speech though. I hope Obama uses him effectively for votes, but I'll be disappointed if he gets hired in the administration.

[Jolly Roger]

I'm not sure the GOP will want to open that can of worms, about Iraq.

[IClaudius]

Next stop Hagel? Or will he hold his promise and leave his wife being the only one to endorse?

Steve Clements has a good post about his conversation with Wilkerson over at the 'Note.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/

[Onomatopoeia]

Next stop Hagel? Or will he hold his promise and leave his wife being the only one to endorse?

Steve Clements has a good post about his conversation with Wilkerson over at the 'Note.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/Oh, man. An endorsement by Hagel (my personal pick for Obama's running mate) would be so sweet.

[IClaudius]

CNN doorstep interview here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LbLxja4UHY) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc) is also good.

[Jolly Roger]

News outlets in the main may not be all over this yet, but Wingnutia definitely is. The comments on FOX News are appalling, although not unexpected. Anyone check out the FReepers yet? I would, but I just took a shower.

Great Ceasar's Ghost! You're right. Out of morbid curiosity I peeked into the Fox News comments. I couldn't stomach more than a few pages.

People are crying racism over Powell's endorsement. Some are saying they used to respect him but not anymore since he's endorsing Obama.

Damn....so if he backed McCain he'd be called "Uncle Tom". But since he's backing Obama he's a racist? I've met Powell once, and while I was a bit put off by him he didn't strike me as a person that makes his decisions based on race. (it was at a book signing in the Pentagon....his aides wouldn't let him sign my day planner unless I bought his book. I didn't....I thought it was petty to kind of extort money from a then-lower-enlisted soldier *in DC which is horribly expensive* that doesn't have a lot of cash to throw around. But I did get to at least shake his hand, and to be honest, he didn't refuse to sign it, his aides are the ones that said no. Though it was most likely something he knew about). Amazing...these same people should be crying "sexism". Do they think Palin got the nom for VP on her merits? Its because she has tits. She doesn't have much else.

So the rest say they used to respect CP until he backed Obama. Hmmm....I don't think they respected him then. He's allowed to make his own decisions, and just because he doesn't agree with Joe-Sixpack-the Plumber-McCain-Voters isn't a good reason to no longer respect him. I expect his involvement with Bush's war will rear its head, but didn't McCain vote in agreement with it? It will be interesting, if not sickening to see these wingnuts try to spin it.

[Thorium Indium Potassium]

Raised my respect a few notches, especially his comment on the smear tactics of Obama being Muslim, “The really right answer is what if he is?”

And, I think this endorsement is something that could help cement my father in the Obama camp.

[Revtim]

Powell, your stature may have been diminished in my eyes since you knowingly presented false and dubious intelligence to the U.N. Security Council and worked in the Bush Administration. But I've always felt you were more trying to be the bona fide good soldier, serving at the will of the president out of a sense of duty, which transcended many private disagreements.That's an awfully flowery way of describing a man who knowingly (your word) lied to help start a war where he knew thousands of innocents would die.

[Gorsnak]

Also, let me just say how wonderful and timely Powell's comment was about so-what about a Muslim American President.

I was really happy to hear that. That hasn't been said nearly enough during this campaign. I understand why the Obama camp hasn't been pressing the argument, but it is a message that needs to be much more prominent than it has been.

[Bayard]

I go back and forth in my feelings about Powell. That was a good endorsement, though. I especially liked his line about Obama knowing that all towns have values, not just "small towns". It was a quick line, but a good one. And his words about the Muslim soldier were quite moving.

I don't know how big a deal this endorsement is, but I know that my parents, at least, really respect Powell and will probably give a fair bit of weight to his endorsement. I would imagine they're not the only people of their generation who do.

[Kolak of Twilo]

My guess is this will do nothing to swing any Republican votes to Obama but it will have an impact on swinging undecided independents toward him and away from McCain.

This is not going to be good news for McCain/Palin in toss-up states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and maybe Florida. I think that is the only influence it will have.

While I have issues with Powell, I wasn't aware he knowingly lied about intelligence prior to the war. Isn't it likely he was misled just as much as the rest of us and Congress were? Anything that could be offered showing he knew he was repeating false info would be something I would like to see.

[Onomatopoeia]

While I have issues with Powell, I wasn't aware he knowingly lied about intelligence prior to the war. Isn't it likely he was misled just as much as the rest of us and Congress were? Anything that could be offered showing he knew he was repeating false info would be something I would like to see.I think Powell's smarter than that, so no, I don't give him a pass. I respect him, but I believe he knew what he was doing and is going to have to live with the shame of his decision to be a good soldier and lie to the American people, even if he doesn't acknowledge it publicly.

[Kolak of Twilo]

I think Powell's smarter than that, so no, I don't give him a pass. I respect him, but he's going to have to live with the shame of his decision to be a good soldier and lie to the American people, even if he doesn't acknowledge it publicly.
I'm certainly not willing to give him a pass if it can be shown he knew he was repeating false information to the Security Council or in any other setting. But I haven't seen anything to show that he knew the intelligence data was distorted or inaccurate. The Bush Administration misled scores of Democrats in Congress but we don't say they knowlingly lied when they accepted this information as fact. Is it so unbelievable the same thing happened with Powell?

[Onomatopoeia]

I'm certainly not willing to give him a pass if it can be shown he knew he was repeating false information to the Security Council or in any other setting. But I haven't seen anything to show that he knew the intelligence data was distorted or inaccurate. The Bush Administration misled scores of Democrats in Congress but we don't say they knowlingly lied when they accepted this information as fact. Is it so unbelievable the same thing happened with Powell?In my opinion, yes, it is quite unbelievable. Powell was not somewhere on the periphery during the run-up. He was in the thick of it. There've also been reports (I'm sure someone could dig up) of Powell becoming extremely, and loudly agitated because of intelligence conveyed to him that controverted what the Administration was putting forth. Yet, in the end, Powell lied to the Security Council and, thereby, the American people.

[DSeid]

Although it may, perhaps, possibly help garner a few additional votes for Obama, it will definitely serve to further galvanize the Republican base...Really? How do you see this increasing turn-out among the hardcore any more than it already is? Those that would react to Powell's endorsement with increased McCain vigor are already either going to vote against Obama no matter what or vote for Palin no matter what (yeah, I don't think too many of the hardcore are actually voting for McCain really). The rabbit that McCain has had to pull out of his hat was always motivating that base while also beating Obama in the middle - those who might have voted for the McCain they thought they knew back in 2000, back when it was flirting across the bar but not yet actually having breakfast together. They've both sewn up their bases by now; the core is revved on both sides and right now the Dem core is bigger than the GOP core. The election could always only go McCain's way if he also won over a majority of the middle - Powell might not win those folks over much more, but he does help prevent McCain from having a chance to win them back at this late date. And that is plenty. Keeping the gains right now is more important than making new one.



BTW, his defense against the Islamophobia and the prejudice against American Arabs, that Obama to his shame has implicitly also endorsed by the nature of his denials, moves him back up quite a few notches in my book too. It reminds me some of when, back when he was first declining to run for President, he was asked if it was because he was afraid that the media would bring up his wife's depressive illness: he responded bluntly, to the effect of "No. She has a treated illness. Every one knows about it. And her meds work better than my high blood pressure pills. Next question please." (That did more to destimatize mental illness than a hundred Koppel Nightlines about it had.)

[The Understander]

News outlets in the main may not be all over this yet, but Wingnutia definitely is. The comments on FOX News are appalling, although not unexpected. Anyone check out the FReepers yet? I would, but I just took a shower.

Ummm... enjoy?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2109445/posts

[kaylasdad99]

Well, first of all, any endorsement of Obama (regardless of the endorser) is superior to an endorsement of McCain. Considering the source, however, and the circumstances surrounding my tendency to view him with disdain, I don't see myself crowing too loudly over this.

Be funny, though, if Condi were to come out and also endorse Obama. :D

[Onomatopoeia]

Really? How do you see this increasing turn-out among the hardcore any more than it already is? Those that would react to Powell's endorsement with increased McCain vigor are already either going to vote against Obama no matter what or vote for Palin no matter what (yeah, I don't think too many of the hardcore are actually voting for McCain really). The rabbit that McCain has had to pull out of his hat was always motivating that base while also beating Obama in the middle - those who might have voted for the McCain they thought they knew back in 2000, back when it was flirting across the bar but not yet actually having breakfast together. They've both sewn up their bases by now; the core is revved on both sides and right now the Dem core is bigger than the GOP core. The election could always only go McCain's way if he also won over a majority of the middle - Powell might not win those folks over much more, but he does help prevent McCain from having a chance to win them back at this late date. And that is plenty. Keeping the gains right now is more important than making new one.I didn't say it would increase turnout among the hardcore base. By galvanize, I meant to harden. Those who may vote for McCain, but do so with ambivalence, may now not only do so with increased ferver, but go out of their way to try to sway others currently swathed in political malaise. The result may be an increased turnout among the softer edge of the base. Significant? Probably not. An impact? i think so.BTW, his defense against the Islamophobia and the prejudice against American Arabs, that Obama to his shame has implicitly also endorsed by the nature of his denials, moves him back up quite a few notches in my book too. It reminds me some of when, back when he was first declining to run for President, he was asked if it was because he was afraid that the media would bring up his wife's depressive illness: he responded bluntly, to the effect of "No. She has a treated illness. Every one knows about it. And her meds work better than my high blood pressure pills. Next question please." (That did more to destimatize mental illness than a hundred Koppel Nightlines about it had.)I agree. His firm, unequivocal statement about islamophobia this morning definitely helped.

[Gangster Octopus]

Ummm... enjoy?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2109445/posts

They certainly seem to be in an uprorar over something that "doesn't matter" (their words, not mine).

[The Understander]

They certainly seem to be in an uprorar over something that "doesn't matter" (their words, not mine).

Don't they, though?

You can almost see the veins bulging in their head and neck in their posts. Po' wittle Fweepers.

[IClaudius]

While I have issues with Powell, I wasn't aware he knowingly lied about intelligence prior to the war. Isn't it likely he was misled just as much as the rest of us and Congress were? Anything that could be offered showing he knew he was repeating false info would be something I would like to see.
Yes, and no.

Powell was involved with a last ditched effort to remove several aspects of the draft presentation, which the Administration tried to put in there, but that he felt he could not support on their merits.

But even so, the final speech still contained content which was known to be wrong, obliquely parsed, or simply based on single intelligence cites sourced from dubious INC defectors, which would not ordinarily be allowed to pass as corroborated intelligence.

So, despite him being involved in some of the back-and-forth about Administration speeches and media leaks, which were laced with politicised claims from the OSP, then edited out, then edited back in, Powell, in the end, went along with dubious claims.

How harsh we should judge this is open to debate. It's worth remembering, in this context, that Powell was in the middle of an ongoing struggle with Cheney's faction, who wanted to bypass the UN completely. So his going to the UN was inherently a compromised position; He was being used by the hardliners to put a more credible face on the Administration's claims, whilst at the same time, he felt an incentive to be involved by keeping the Administration at least engaged, and helping to build a harder tone at the UN against Iraq.

The specifics of what was known to be wrong and what was just weak and later disproved vary between the individual claims. Two of the prominent issues, given their centrality to the war case, were his claims about the alleged link between Iraq and al Qaeda, and his depiction of Iraq seeking aluminium tubes being suitable for centrifuge. The former was never believed by intelligence agencies as being any substantive connection, and the latter is probably the clearest case of a flat lie, given the IAEA's and the intelligence community's pre-existing knowledge about this matter. He definitely tried to paper over this with double talk about divided expert opinion and a claim about their high tolerances being suspicious.

I'm not sure how much he personally knew about the veracity of some of the other claims, like the so-called training camps, the mobile labs, and hundreds of tons of agents, which were subsequently disproved. As a military person, he would have known that much of Iraq's previous arsenal of such weapons were either destroyed, buried or unusable.

Looking at Hans Blix's response (http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2003/sc7664.p2.doc.htm), and the lack of change in the Security Council, certainly indicates the case was not made successfully.

Howard Dean's assessment at the time, for which he was pilloried, was also correct.


Secretary Powell’s recent presentation at the UN showed the extent to which we have Iraq under an audio and visual microscope. Given that, I was impressed not by the vastness of evidence presented by the Secretary, but rather by its sketchiness.

[Jolly Roger]

They certainly seem to be in an uprorar over something that "doesn't matter" (their words, not mine).

Did the posters in FR cry racism when it was directed at Obama with the food stamp thing and the guy with the monkey doll? I don't know, but i'm willing to bet no. They're a bunch of whiney clueless idiots, and I'll say racist in some ways for sure.

I don't really care too much for their bleating, but I can't wait to hear the McCain spin on Powell.

[Onomatopoeia]

I don't really care too much for their bleating, but I can't wait to hear the McCain spin on Powell.A little spin. Not too much... Entire article linked here (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/19/colin-powell-endorses-obama/)

Appearing on "FOX News Sunday," McCain responded to the news of Powell's endorsement by saying he still admires and respects his old friend.

"Well, I have always admired and respected General Powell. We are longtime friends. This doesn't come as a surprise. But I am also very pleased to have the endorsement of four former secretaries of state ... and I am proud to have the endorsement of well over 200 retired army generals and admirals," McCain said, noting the support offered by Henry Kissinger, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger and Alexander Haig.

[Mosier]

Pardon me, I have to get some mustard for my hat.

And I think I owe Shayna an apology.

[Sage Rat]

As a guy in the middle, I've got to say that that was about as good a speech as I could ever hope for. I hope that it gives the right a kick in the pants.

[DMark]

I think the biggest impact of Powell's endorsement will be the "oh fuck" factor.

I can see some moderate Republicans who are not wild about McCain now finally starting to see the writing on the wall. Will those Republicans jump ship and go to Obama? No.

But some might now decide simply to sit out this election and let the chips fall where they may. In other words, this might be the sign to start admitting that Obama might actually win.

Denial is a pretty big hurdle for many people to jump, but reassuring comments about Obama, by someone big in their party they trust, might just make it easier to accept if, and when, it happens.

For instance, if the tables were reversed and somebody like Al Gore had come out today and supported McCain, it would be a bitter pill to swallow, but it would make me feel somewhat better knowing someone I respect feels it is not the end of the world.

[Onomatopoeia]

Pardon me, I have to get some mustard for my hat.

And I think I owe Shayna an apology.Good man.

[Phlosphr]

This will set the tone for the week. And if Obama is as smart as he has shown for the last 18months, he'll release something just as devastating to McCain's campaign again next Sunday. I wonder what Obama's 3rd book will be?

[Onomatopoeia]

I wonder what Obama's 3rd book will be?"We, the People" ...just a thought.

[gonzomax]

The repubs can not attack Powell very well. He did what they asked him to. He stuck his neck out for the admin when I am sure he knew better. They cut it off. There were a lot of sources that were telling any one who would listen that Bush and the neocons were lying about Sadaam. He must have heard them. He was a good soldier for them.

[Onomatopoeia]

The repubs can not attack Powell very well. He did what they asked him to. He stuck his neck out for the admin when I am sure he knew better. They cut it off. There were a lot of sources that were telling any one who would listen that Bush and the neocons were lying about Sadaam. He must have heard them. He was a good soldier for them....and they threw him under the bus as a thank-you gift. Not to excuse Powell, but at least he had a sense of honor. Too bad his responsibility to the country didn't override his duty to his boss.

[Markxxx]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No, if Obama wasn't 1/2 black would he endorse him? I really doubt it.

IF and IF it were true that Powell had no reason to endorse McCain than he simply would've said "I'm not making an endorsement."

So you see this truly says something. In this country a white person voting for a McCain because he's white is racist, but a black person voting for Obama because he's black is NOT a racist.

Even if it weren't true, that is still the message that is getting sent.

[Marley23]

Even if it weren't true, that is still the message that is getting sent.
By whom is this message being sent? Obama isn't getting 100 percent of the black vote. He's doing a bit better than Kerry and Gore did, so doesn't that show that most black voters agree with the policies of the Democratic party?

[Hamlet]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless. Do you want to know what this post of yours shows me about you?

[Ca3799]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No, if Obama wasn't 1/2 black would he endorse him? I really doubt it.

IF and IF it were true that Powell had no reason to endorse McCain than he simply would've said "I'm not making an endorsement."

So you see this truly says something. In this country a white person voting for a McCain because he's white is racist, but a black person voting for Obama because he's black is NOT a racist.

Even if it weren't true, that is still the message that is getting sent.


I can't speak for all black people becuase I don't know them all (and I have some doubt about your 'numbers'), but when asked, Powell spoke quite elegantly and reasonably for about 10 minutes about our current situation, what he liked and disliked about both candidates, and where he saw them headig in the future, before stating his preference for Obama.

His reasons included nothing to do with 'blackness', as he explained quite clearly.

Maybe you should watch his explanation, come back, and bring pie.

[Squink]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.Because, of course, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry were all secretly black?

[Kolak of Twilo]

In my opinion, yes, it is quite unbelievable. Powell was not somewhere on the periphery during the run-up. He was in the thick of it. There've also been reports (I'm sure someone could dig up) of Powell becoming extremely, and loudly agitated because of intelligence conveyed to him that controverted what the Administration was putting forth. Yet, in the end, Powell lied to the Security Council and, thereby, the American people.
I guess my willingness to cut Powell some slack is because I feel Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are capable of nearly anything to get their way regarding the Iraq invasion. It isn't much of a leap for me to think they would do anything they needed to get someone like Powell to make their argument for them, including misleading him or doctoring the intelligence he was shown. The fact that he trusted them seriously altered my opinion of him and his judgement. I just have a hard time buying that he would put himself in a position where he would repeat something he knew at the time was blatantly false. I don't view him as innocent in the actions of this administration, so I think our disagreement is more one of degrees than anything else.

[Marley23]

Because, of course, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry were all secretly black?
Well, they all certainly pass the paper bag test...

[Lobohan]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No, if Obama wasn't 1/2 black would he endorse him? I really doubt it.

IF and IF it were true that Powell had no reason to endorse McCain than he simply would've said "I'm not making an endorsement."

So you see this truly says something. In this country a white person voting for a McCain because he's white is racist, but a black person voting for Obama because he's black is NOT a racist.

Even if it weren't true, that is still the message that is getting sent.Only to really, really ignorant and unthinking people. If such people will ignore what Powell said and randomly attribute racist motives based on nothing but their own prejudice, well, those people are too petty to consider voting for a black man anyway.

[Jolly Roger]

What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

I take offense to that. Being black myself I happen to know other black people that aren't voting for Obama. Also, even though I am voting for Obama are you suggesting that I'm only doing so because I'm black? What, you think I don't have a mind of my own to consider my choices? My wife is white and she's voting for Obama. She was going to vote for McCain but changed her mind after Palin. i suppose i should have divorced before she did that. after all, the only reason she'd vote for McCain is because he's white too. :rolleyes:

I guess you think black people are unable to explore the issues and that the only reaon they could be voting for Obama in numbers is because of race. If you're not thinking that, your post sure doesn't show it.

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No, if Obama wasn't 1/2 black would he endorse him? I really doubt it.



I won't say I know Powell's mind, but I don't think thats fair. You don't know his mind either. You know, maybe he just thought he liked Obama's actions, ploicies and ideas more. Its not like Colin Powell is hanging with the brothers at the barbershop.

[appleciders]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

No, that shows that black people vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Clinton, Gore, and Kerry are not black. This is evidence against your point, not for it.

[GIGObuster]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it. What is shows is that a black person will vote for a black person regardless.

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No, if Obama wasn't 1/2 black would he endorse him? I really doubt it.

IF and IF it were true that Powell had no reason to endorse McCain than he simply would've said "I'm not making an endorsement."

So you see this truly says something. In this country a white person voting for a McCain because he's white is racist, but a black person voting for Obama because he's black is NOT a racist.

Even if it weren't true, that is still the message that is getting sent.
Powell gave money to McCain's campaign early on, that showed to me that this racist point is bananas.

Powell mentioned that one of the main reasons he will not continue to support McCain was McCain's choice of Palin for VP. There are many reasons other than race to arrive to the conclusion that McCain just does not know how to select people.

Many right wing commentators, that put integrity over dogma, have said that in these times it is crucial to have a President that will appoint people to positions of power in a careful way rather than just following their gut.

We already had 8 years of that and we for sure do not need more of that.

[RickJay]

I have to admit Powell spoke remarkably honestly and well in that interview. He was frank, clear, and addressed every point with intelligence and relevance.

[Jolly Roger]

Do you want to know what this post of yours shows me about you?

I know what it tells me, but I didn't say it in my last point. Its not worth the effort. Archie Bunker was the last lovable bigot, and that was a long time ago.

[IClaudius]

This is pretty despicable. McCain received the endorsement of 5 white former SS, but somehow their endorsement isn't brought into question as a matter of racial solidarity. It's ridiculous blather.

Powell is the archetypal good soldier who has, if anything, carried too much shit for the Republicans over the years, which contradicted his personal integrity. Why can't he just be taken as having his own considered individual views, which happen to depart from the current GOP candidate? Why must he be infantilised and dehumanised as a racial identity category? The guy gave express reasons in poignant and careful language - why not actually accept that as given.

I thought conservatives were meant to despise the very idea of a collectivisation of racial identity as politics, yet the moment one of their own black moderate conservative bucks the party - hey, he's a fist pumping, hip-hop dancing black power member.

FFS grow up.

[BJMoose]

I'm inclined to see Powell's "defection" as an indication of how the Republican moderates (all eight of 'em) are reacting to the choice of Sarah "Dingbat" Palin. If McCain had picked a reasonably housebroken ultraconservative to balance the ticket, the moderates would had accepted it as part of the cost of doing business. But Palin was way beyond the pale. Honestly imagining her as president will make one either laugh, cry, or puke. Personally, I can't even imagine her successfully running a moose jerky stand.

[guyblond]

Folks seem to have differing opinions on how much Powell knew about the run up to the war. But I wonder if he has an idea of the effect that an Obama presidency will have of the chance that some of the current administration members will be looking at possible jail time. Depends on what he knows. Obviously McCain will pardon everyone.

I find it interesting that Powell’s endorsement comes after Obama pretty much has the election in the bag.

[IClaudius]

Folks seem to have differing opinions on how much Powell knew about the run up to the war. But I wonder if he has an idea of the effect that an Obama presidency will have of the chance that some of the current administration members will be looking at possible jail time. Depends on what he knows. Obviously McCain will pardon everyone.

I find it interesting that Powell’s endorsement comes after Obama pretty much has the election in the bag.
It's generally poor form to go after evicted political foes, though we can be certain that more abuses will be exposed and investigated.

However, it is undeniably true that many administration officials will have to be very careful about where they travel in the future due to their complity in the use of torture etc. Developments in terms of jus cogens norms and the application of CAT under universal jurisdiction in European domestic courts means that they, like Henry Kissinger, will not be able to travel lightly.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Watching Powell's interview with Meet the Press, I am extremely impressed with his presentation and the points that he made. It saddens me that he is becoming a victim of the knee-jerk reactions on the part of the extreme right wing. Here is a man from a top level of authority and experience within the party, making very eloquent and valid points about a candidate that I hope will not be largely disregarded, and will be a wake up call to members of his party. He's being called a traitor for god's sake.
Very good show.

[BJMoose]

For those of us who missed it this morning, Meet the Press reruns today at 6:00 p.m. eastern time on MSNBC.

[Gorsnak]

The clip is all over youtube as well.

[Tuckerfan]

Rush speaks. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Limbaugh_Where_are_the_inexperienced_white_liberals_Powell_has_endorsed.html)Rush Limbaugh said Colin Powell's decision to get behind Barack Obama appeared to be very much tied to Obama's status as the first African-American with a chance to become president.

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to hear this. :rolleyes:

[Menocchio]

Actually, I'd like to slightly revise my earlier opinion.

While I still believe that the major effect of Powell's endorsement will simply be to win Obama a positive headline for the next couple of days, denying McCain publicity he desperately needs to reverse the polls right now, I also think that this will have a secondary effect of provoking more racist statements from the Republicans.

This is the kind of thing that will kill the GOP's standing in the long term. It's becoming increasingly clear that the demographic math just doesn't favor the Republicans as they currently stand on issues of diversity. It's becoming increasingly hard to win with just white people. And the kind of moaning and dismissals we're hearing from the right these days isn't helping them.

[Jolly Roger]

Rush speaks. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Limbaugh_Where_are_the_inexperienced_white_liberals_Powell_has_endorsed.html)I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to hear this. :rolleyes:
Its not like i was unaware of the true colors of Rush's "dittoheads". Anyone who takes his inflammatory BS seriously is a moron.

[The Second Stone]

I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I kind of am okay with this, since it'll actually correct the general impression of Powell closer to the truth (IMHO.) Again, IMHO, Powell is not the hero he's made out to be; I think he's a sycophantic careerist. I hope this wins Obama a vote or two all the same, and suspect it will.

Powell white washed My Lai and he gave that horrible speech filled with lies at the UN. He wasted enormous talents.


Great Ceasar's Ghost! [/I]Amazing...these same people should be crying "sexism". Do they think Palin got the nom for VP on her merits? Its because she has tits. She doesn't have much else.



That's a bit coarse. Palin indeed, does have tits, but was chosen because of her appeal to the base. Her physical attractiveness is part of that. What disqualifies her is that she is not qualified to step in as president because she knows nothing about national or international politics because she has been uninterested in them.

[guyblond]

Sometimes subtle paybacks are a bitch!

Powell's comments seem to be more like a slam of the party than of McCain.

[BMax]

Rush speaks. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Limbaugh_Where_are_the_inexperienced_white_liberals_Powell_has_endorsed.html)I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to hear this. :rolleyes:

Did you read any of the replies to that article? The majority of them were complimentary of Powell and called Limbaugh a bigot.

[Jolly Roger]

Powell white washed My Lai and he gave that horrible speech filled with lies at the UN. He wasted enormous talents.




That's a bit coarse. Palin indeed, does have tits, but was chosen because of her appeal to the base. Her physical attractiveness is part of that. What disqualifies her is that she is not qualified to step in as president because she knows nothing about national or international politics because she has been uninterested in them.

Coarse, maybe. But McCain could have picked plenty of others that do have the qualifications. He picked Palin because he wanted to appeal to women and HRC fans that might swing his way. I will admit that I don't know what McCain's thinking processes are. But thats my reading on it. If I'm proven wrong, she is still a horrible choice, just not one made for her gender. But i don't really think I'm wrong.

[Soggy Biscuit]

Coarse, maybe. But McCain could have picked plenty of others that do have the qualifications. He picked Palin because he wanted to appeal to women and HRC fans that might swing his way. I will admit that I don't know what McCain's thinking processes are. But thats my reading on it. If I'm proven wrong, she is still a horrible choice, just not one made for her gender. But i don't really think I'm wrong.

I think her being female was a big factor, but I think the primary reason she was picked was due to her closeness to the fundamentalist protestant right. There were other female politicians who were far more qualified who were passed over because they would not pass the Jerry Falwell litmus test (i.e. Linda Lingle, who was the first Republican governor in a VERY blue state).

[Tuckerfan]

Did you read any of the replies to that article? The majority of them were complimentary of Powell and called Limbaugh a bigot.

Perhaps there's hope for America, yet. ;)

[Spoke]

Color me unimpressed with Powell's endorsement. Why did he wait until Obama was pulling away? Why didn't he endorse Obama a month ago when the race was neck-and-neck, and the endorsement might have helped tip the scales?

At this stage, it just looks like Powell is making a desperate last-minute leap at the bandwagon.

It smacks of careerism.

[Jolly Roger]

I think her being female was a big factor, but I think the primary reason she was picked was due to her closeness to the fundamentalist protestant right. There were other female politicians who were far more qualified who were passed over because they would not pass the Jerry Falwell litmus test (i.e. Linda Lingle, who was the first Republican governor in a VERY blue state).
Thats not comforting. If i wanted a Pope (or vide pope) I'd move to vatican City. Well, Rome....I'm sure they don't have apartments for rent in the Vatican. :)

seriously, if a VP choice is made on a religious basis, I'm not going to like it.

[Manda JO]

Coarse, maybe. But McCain could have picked plenty of others that do have the qualifications. He picked Palin because he wanted to appeal to women and HRC fans that might swing his way. I will admit that I don't know what McCain's thinking processes are. But thats my reading on it. If I'm proven wrong, she is still a horrible choice, just not one made for her gender. But i don't really think I'm wrong.

I think it's more complex than that: he had to have a running mate with flair: at the time, McCain's campaign seemed . . .boring. Staid. People simply weren't warming up to him. He desperately needed someone with personality, moxie--someone that people would talk about. Palin is someone people like to talk about, and a large part of the reason for that is because she's a woman who manages to both embody and transgress gender roles: she's a hyper-aggressive conservative politician and a mother of five, a woman who can hunt moose and, I suspect, make brownies for the PTA fund raiser. A man with all those same qualities would not be nearly as fascinating, and so, I suspect, would never have been picked,but neither would a female version of John McCain. A male politician with the same sort of human-interest element might have been, but I honestly can't think of anyone as interesting.

[Equipoise]

He picked Palin because he wanted to appeal to women and HRC fans that might swing his way.McCain himself (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081019/pl_politico/14719) is giving a new reason.

And McCain challenged [Chris] Wallace’s assertion that Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin had become “a drag” on the GOP ticket.

“As a cold political calculation, I could not be more pleased,” McCain said, calling Palin “a direct counterpoint to the liberal feminist agenda for America” and asserting “she’s the best thing that could have happened to my campaign and to America.”[bolding mine] Maybe he thought this would get lost in the manufactured uproar about Obama's finances.

[Marley23]

Color me unimpressed with Powell's endorsement. Why did he wait until Obama was pulling away? Why didn't he endorse Obama a month ago when the race was neck-and-neck, and the endorsement might have helped tip the scales?

At this stage, it just looks like Powell is making a desperate last-minute leap at the bandwagon.

It smacks of careerism.
We don't know when Powell made his decision and when he made the Obama campaign aware of it. You may be right that he waited until it was safe to make his endorsement, but the reason he made his announcement today is that Obama's people felt this is when it would make the greatest impact. Throughout the primary and general election, Obama's campaign has done well with responses to bad news and claims of shifting momentum. When Clinton won significant primaries, for example, they would respond with endorsements by prominent Democrats. I don't think there are that many votes left to shift at this point, but the it can't hurt, and news of Powell's endorsement will help Obama counter the notion that McCain is getting a little momentum going into the last two weeks.

[Jolly Roger]

I think it's more complex than that: he had to have a running mate with flair: at the time, McCain's campaign seemed . . .boring. Staid. People simply weren't warming up to him. He desperately needed someone with personality, moxie--someone that people would talk about. Palin is someone people like to talk about, and a large part of the reason for that is because she's a woman who manages to both embody and transgress gender roles: she's a hyper-aggressive conservative politician and a mother of five, a woman who can hunt moose and, I suspect, make brownies for the PTA fund raiser. A man with all those same qualities would not be nearly as fascinating, and so, I suspect, would never have been picked,but neither would a female version of John McCain. A male politician with the same sort of human-interest element might have been, but I honestly can't think of anyone as interesting.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't prefer Obama over McCain because Obama is an exciting person. Other than being black and carbon based life forms I don't think I have much in common with him. Thats fine. I don't want him to be my new "best friend" i want him to be a good president. I don't want to have a beer with him, or go moose or whatever hunting, and if he bakes brownies for the PTA or makes rice krispie treats for his local Cub Scouts I'll admire that, but it wouldn't be a big factor in whether or not he could have my vote.

If McCain thought he needed someone to energize his campaign, maybe he should have thought that a lot of people didn't like what they were hearing on his platform. Selecting Palin and saying "Country First" is laughable. So yes, I might sound haarsh and coarse in this, but its because I'm sick of this crap. Its not "Country First" if you pick a VP solely because it will maybe snatch some votes. You should pick a VP that is capable of running the country should you (as president) have something happen to you. McCain is freaking 72 years old....and not in the best of health.

He's run a bad campaign, spread untruths about his opponent and picked a person less qualified than his opponent to be VP. Yeah, thats what I want in a POTUS. :mad: I'm out of benefit of the doubt.

Powell may not be squeaky clean, I think he made his endorsement after considering the facts. Though I'm not surprised that asome cry its "racist". Maybe they'll bring more stuffed monkeys to McCain's next rally.

[monstro]

Color me unimpressed with Powell's endorsement. Why did he wait until Obama was pulling away? Why didn't he endorse Obama a month ago when the race was neck-and-neck, and the endorsement might have helped tip the scales?

At this stage, it just looks like Powell is making a desperate last-minute leap at the bandwagon.

It smacks of careerism.

I'm inclined to agree. But if someone is trying to make up their minds about two candidates they think are equally qualified and they're not particularly ideological (which Colin doesn't appear to be), then it's not unreasonable for that person to wait till the very end to make a decision.

The candidates' true colors show when they're at the final stretch, bruised and bloodied, and throwing (or dodging) sucker punches. Powell might have made up his mind months ago, but it was wise for him to wait till McCain made a fool of himself the way he has. Only the Rush Dittoheads would find fault with his criticisms.

I still don't forgive Powell for the lies, though.

[GameHat]

I was quite happy to see Powell endorse Obama.

I was looking for a bit of a nice flamewar in the Fark forums - then somebody posted the photo that Powell referred to.

Here it is (http://www.newyorker.com/online/2008/09/29/slideshow_080929_platon?slide=16).

Not to derail the thread, but that photo hit me hard. I couldn't help myself from shedding a few tears.

It's so beautiful, but so sad.

[Stranger On A Train]

Perhaps they'll attack him for lying about Iraq.We are at war with Eastasia; we have always been at war with Eastasia.

As much as I'd like to find a reason to redeem Powell's esteem, I find myself agreeing with spoke-; Powell has had all the time in the world to endorse Obama (or at least criticize McCain and his continued barely veiled appeal to racial prejudice and bullshit assertion that he has some top secret plan with special sauce that will end the War on Terror) and he's only now stepped in and thrown down a mitten. Just as McCain has made his Faustian barging, so did Powell, and his public excuses for it have been lacking. Powell could have split the neocons from the rational Republicans a long time ago; now, anyone who would have followed him has either withdrawn from the election in disgust or has already switched over. Thanks for nothin', Colin; go back to writing your memoirs.

The sad and shitty part about it is that Powell could have been a viable moderate Republican candidate in the Goldwater mold; instead, he allowed himself to be co-opted by one side and then remained in the shadow of the other until his appearance is irrelevant.

Stranger

[JoeElliott]

>>On Meet the Press right now Colin Powell just endorsed Obama in a terrific speech outlining the failures of the McCain campaign and the successes of the Obama campaign.<<

So a better run campaign is a reason to support someone for President? I hope not. This isn't a contest to see who does a better job of campaigning or debating. This is about ideas and philosophy.

In addition, Powell mentioned the lack of experience of Palin. Well, what about Obama. What experience does he have? Oh, I forgot, he's qualified simply because he's eloquent and runs a good campaign. Get ready for your Messiah America. Let's see if he can deliver. Can he change the world? Can he?

Joe Elliott

[Mr. Excellent]

Color me unimpressed with Powell's endorsement. Why did he wait until Obama was pulling away? Why didn't he endorse Obama a month ago when the race was neck-and-neck, and the endorsement might have helped tip the scales?

At this stage, it just looks like Powell is making a desperate last-minute leap at the bandwagon.

It smacks of careerism.

Careerism? Seriously?

The man has had one of the most successful careers in public service that you can imagine. National Security Advisory, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Secretary of State - he never has to work for anyone again, if he doesn't want to. He can make a fine living, and exert real influence, just by writing books, giving lectures, whatever. Pretty much the only higher office he might aspire to is the Presidency - and he doesn't want it.

We can talk about the UN speech - but there is a deep, deep strain of integrity in Colin Powell, and it cheapens the man to pretend it isn't there. I think he spoke from the heart this morning, and I'm glad he did it.

[Troy McClure SF]

So a better run campaign is a reason to support someone for President? I hope not. This isn't a contest to see who does a better job of campaigning or debating. This is about ideas and philosophy.

There are a lot of things people talk about prior to an election that really have no bearing on how a person would be as president, but I don't count running a campaign among them. Good ideas and philosophy are well and good, but useless if you lack organization within your administration to realize them.

[Spoke]

We can talk about the UN speech - but there is a deep, deep strain of integrity in Colin Powell, and it cheapens the man to pretend it isn't there. I think he spoke from the heart this morning, and I'm glad he did it.
So why didn't he do it a month ago?

A: He was waiting to see who would pull ahead.

[Punoqllads]

While I still believe that the major effect of Powell's endorsement will simply be to win Obama a positive headline for the next couple of days, denying McCain publicity he desperately needs to reverse the polls right now...
I agree. If you look over at the supertracker at fivethirtyeight.com, you can see that the momentum has shifted from Obama to McCain since the debate. There had been whisperings for over a month that Powell was going to endorse Obama, but nothing was seen. This announcement is well-timed for the Obama campaign, and I feel that the timing was deliberate.

[BMax]

Rush speaks. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/Limbaugh_Where_are_the_inexperienced_white_liberals_Powell_has_endorsed.html)I'm shocked, shocked, I say, to hear this. :rolleyes:

>>On Meet the Press right now Colin Powell just endorsed Obama in a terrific speech outlining the failures of the McCain campaign and the successes of the Obama campaign.<<

So a better run campaign is a reason to support someone for President? I hope not. This isn't a contest to see who does a better job of campaigning or debating. This is about ideas and philosophy.

In addition, Powell mentioned the lack of experience of Palin. Well, what about Obama. What experience does he have? Oh, I forgot, he's qualified simply because he's eloquent and runs a good campaign. Get ready for your Messiah America. Let's see if he can deliver. Can he change the world? Can he?

Joe Elliott
www.thescribblingsage.com
Yes, it is about ideas and philosophy. "He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America," Powell said. "Is there something wrong with some 7-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, “He’s a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists.” This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
There's an idea there.
I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration
There's another idea, wanting some balance in the SCOTUS.
found that he was a little unsure as to how to deal with the economic problems that we were having," Powell said. "Almost every day there was a different approach to the problem and that concerned me, sensing that he doesn't have a complete grasp of the economic problems that we had.
Powell says he thinks McCain seems out of touch on the economic problems.
I think Powell has some ideas about what image of America he wants presented to the rest of the world, and the intelligent, articulate, multi-ethnic candidate seems to share his ideas.

I've also spoken with lots of Europeans and Asians in the last year, and they all have expressed hope that Barack Obama is elected, and that his election would go a long way to restore much of the international respect that the US lost during the last six years. Let's hope he delivers.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

So a better run campaign is a reason to support someone for President? I hope not. This isn't a contest to see who does a better job of campaigning or debating. This is about ideas and philosophy
Good thing Powell never said anything like that then.
In addition, Powell mentioned the lack of experience of Palin. Well, what about Obama. What experience does he have?
He has a ton more qualifications than Palin does, starting with a far more impressive academic and pre-political professional background and ending with far more relevant elected experience. He's also demonstrated a depth of knowledge and intellectual acuity that Sarah Palin can't even spell.
Oh, I forgot, he's qualified simply because he's eloquent and runs a good campaign. Get ready for your Messiah America. Let's see if he can deliver. Can he change the world? Can he?
Nobody thinks he's the Messiah. That's a tiresome strawman.
Joe Elliott
www.thescribblingsage.com
Spamming personal websites is frowned on here.

[Manda JO]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't prefer Obama over McCain because Obama is an exciting person. Other than being black and carbon based life forms I don't think I have much in common with him. Thats fine. I don't want him to be my new "best friend" i want him to be a good president. I don't want to have a beer with him, or go moose or whatever hunting, and if he bakes brownies for the PTA or makes rice krispie treats for his local Cub Scouts I'll admire that, but it wouldn't be a big factor in whether or not he could have my vote.

If McCain thought he needed someone to energize his campaign, maybe he should have thought that a lot of people didn't like what they were hearing on his platform. Selecting Palin and saying "Country First" is laughable. So yes, I might sound haarsh and coarse in this, but its because I'm sick of this crap. Its not "Country First" if you pick a VP solely because it will maybe snatch some votes. You should pick a VP that is capable of running the country should you (as president) have something happen to you. McCain is freaking 72 years old....and not in the best of health.

He's run a bad campaign, spread untruths about his opponent and picked a person less qualified than his opponent to be VP. Yeah, thats what I want in a POTUS. :mad: I'm out of benefit of the doubt.

Powell may not be squeaky clean, I think he made his endorsement after considering the facts. Though I'm not surprised that asome cry its "racist". Maybe they'll bring more stuffed monkeys to McCain's next rally.

I am not saying it was a good choice. It was an awful choice. But it wasn't just because she was a woman, it was because she was a personality.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The personality would be meaningless without the tits.

McCain wanted to appease social conservatives in his own party while simultaneously making a play for Hillary supporters outside the party. He succeeded on the first count (the one he didn't need) and failed on the second.

[GIGObuster]

Palin was a personality? AFAICT, she was a personality all right, but for the religious right leaders that pressured McCain into selecting her.

"Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character."

-From Pulp Fiction.

[Stranger On A Train]

So why didn't he do it a month ago?

A: He was waiting to see who would pull ahead.Why didn't he do it a year ago when it was plain as a cum-stained dress that McCain was lying out of every orifice in order to make his last shot at the Presidency? Why didn't he come out when they nominated--of all possible candidates--Sarah Palin as a clear grasping attempt to court or at least nullify the Hillary contingent? Jeezus Cristatos, Robert McNamara--who has a standing personal policy of not criticizing the actions of sitting Presidents or SecDefs--stood up and said the Bush Administration was fucking a poodle when it came to Iraq, Afghanistan, and world relations as a whole.

Colin Powell went from being a man of great personal integrity to one who just sat on the sidelines and let one bad play after another occur without even color commentary. Perhaps he "has his reasons" but that doesn't mean he has earned the Fallen On Sword Award Of The Year.

Stranger

[Guinastasia]

They certainly seem to be in an uprorar over something that "doesn't matter" (their words, not mine).

Did Powell even comment on O.J. ever? WTF?

Good god, they're getting more and more amusing as time goes on.

[BrainGlutton]

The Freepers (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2109445/posts) are calling Powell a traitor and a racist and other things.

[BrainGlutton]

So you see this truly says something. In this country a white person voting for a McCain because he's white is racist, but a black person voting for Obama because he's black is NOT a racist.

:rolleyes: It ain't the same. (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=468929) There's no equivalency between the two.

[Snowboarder Bo]

IMO, this seals the election. Too many people still like and respect the man (despite his shilling for the war and silence on many issues), and they will see this as a clincher to go ahead and vote for Obama.

[BrainGlutton]

I thought conservatives were meant to despise the very idea of a collectivisation of racial identity as politics . . .

That's a fairly recent development, however, going back only to the introduction of Affirmative Action.

[Frank]

I find it a distrubing trend. Clinton, Gore and Kerry each got about 90% of the black vote. Obama is getting nearly all of it.
I can only assume that the trend you are disturbed by is that Democrats get 90% of the black vote. Obama does not appear to be breaking new ground in this regard.

[The Second Stone]

Coarse, maybe. But McCain could have picked plenty of others that do have the qualifications. He picked Palin because he wanted to appeal to women and HRC fans that might swing his way. I will admit that I don't know what McCain's thinking processes are. But thats my reading on it. If I'm proven wrong, she is still a horrible choice, just not one made for her gender. But i don't really think I'm wrong.

McCain is not stupid, he was not going to get any support from diehard Hillary supporters, all but a handful of whom are democrats first. He was trying to look open minded by picking a woman and keep the minds of the undecideds open to him and sway many of them. He was also trying to please his base, which likes Palin more than it likes him. The base is pleased with Palin.




In addition, Powell mentioned the lack of experience of Palin. Well, what about Obama. What experience does he have? Oh, I forgot, he's qualified simply because he's eloquent and runs a good campaign. Get ready for your Messiah America. Let's see if he can deliver. Can he change the world? Can he?

Joe Elliott

Community organizer, lawyer, constitutional law professor, state legislator for several years, United States Senator. Palin: mayor of town of about 10,000, Governor of the Great State of Alaska for a short time, hockey mom hottie. Palin is a very big fish in a politically small pond, Obama is a big fish in a big pond. Palin got condemned for ethics by her own party for trying to get her brother-in-law fired. Obama has no ethics charges pending, nor criticism from within his own party. Experience here is not close for people who are not "in the tank" for Palin.

[you with the face]

If Powell is racist for endorsing Obama instead of McCain, is Leiberman racist for endorsing McCain instead of Obama?

I may be wrong, but I don't remember anyone of prominence intimating that Leiberman had racial reasons for crossing party lines and backing McCain. There's no reason why Powell--whose moderateness is no secret--shouldn't be treated the same way. Are you listening, Pat Buchanan?

To me, Powell's public endorsement has significance because he made it in the first place. At this point he could have just as easily remained silent and let the election continue on its current pro-Obama trajectory. But he chose not to do so, even though surely he knew that by speaking out he'd be inviting charges of racism, opportunism, and party disloyalty. Obama doesn't need an endorsement from him at this point, so I don't buy spoke's theory of career ambition. Powell could have probably gotten a job from BO with or without an endorsement.

I think this was his way of getting back at the GOP. He's mad and will continue to be mad about what Iraq did to his reputation, and this endorsement is payback for that. He wanted to make sure that there was enough evidence that an Obama victory is on the horizon before stepping out and pushing McCain and the rest of the party under the bus. His criticism of the GOP means that he thinks Obama is going to win, and therefore he feels safe enough from Republican retaliation to trash talk them.

I think he's trying to repair his image and legacy. Even though the move is 100% self-serving, I can't fault him for it. Everything he said in his speech was right and true and it should have been said a long time ago.

[Frostillicus]

Ummm... enjoy?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2109445/posts

I'd click on that link, but I am afraid I would lose my soul.

[Frostillicus]

The real question is would Powell have endorsed Hillary? No, would he endorsed Edwards? No

Maybe because Powell thinks Barack Obama is better suited to be commander-in-chief than either Hillary or Edwards? Which is kinda exactly the point Powell made today.

[Chimera]

One of the things I've seen in Career Military People is the idea that one should never, not under any circumstances, criticize one's superiors or disobey their instructions. Unfortunately, even when it means they're flat out wrong or when you are ordered to do something that you know is wrong. Now I can only assume that this is based on the idea that blame will flow to the one who issued the orders, but time and again I see good people bitten by that assumption when it is spectacularly untrue anywhere outside the military. (And it could be argued that it isn't always true IN the military.)

Bosses are more than happy to order you to do something wrong, then allow you to take the blame for them when it all catches up with them. Because when they're doing it, it's all about doing whatever they think they need to do; and when they're caught, it's about saving their own asses first.

I saw it with a former supervisor. We got to know the look on his face rather well, calling him on it when we knew that he was not happy with instructions from our Director, when we both knew that the party line was pure bullshit, but he wasn't about to say anything to the contrary.

And I think that's what happened to Colin Powell. He was a Man of Integrity that they knew they could order to lie for them, and he would do it, because he was loyal and that was the way it is done. I also think that's why he left, because he got tired of being used, of having his own reputation and integrity destroyed for the benefit of others. But then, this is all just my guess and not anything I know for certain.

Racism? Unfortunately, as I see on my job every day, the cry of racism is all too commonly used as a weapon of distraction by those who cannot argue with the facts of the situation or defend their own behavior on it's merits.

[choie]

In the press conference after MTP (http://threelinepunditry.blogspot.com/2008/10/follow-up.html), Powell did an even better job of explaining why he's disgusted with the tenor of the Republican party and its 'ideas' these days. He discusses McCain et al's harping on 'socialism', Michelle Bachmann's call for 21st century McCarthyism, and other aspects of the party's narrowminded rightward shift that he decries.

Why does he remain a Republican? God knows. Maybe hope springs eternal that he'll be able to fix the party from within. In any event, between his endorsement and the above linked statement, he speaks more eloquently and honestly on certain subjects (particularly the "so what if he were a Muslim?" and tax issues) than most Democrat politicians do, even though they undoubtedly agree with him. Though, to be fair to the Democrats, Powell feels free to say this stuff because he hasn't yet been burned by having been called a tax-and-spend pinko terrorist-pal.

By the end of the week, he'll be used to it.

[Marley23]

The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/19/AR2008101900598.html?hpid=topnews)makes this interesting note about Powell's political history:

Powell, an African American who headed the armed forces during the 1991 Persian Gulf War, was touted in 1995 as the only person who could upset Clinton's 1996 reelection bid. Then a registered independent, he rejected a run at the presidency but announced he would join the Republican Party and try to reverse what he considered its dangerous turn to the right. But Powell quickly withdrew from politics and turned his attention to working with minority youth. He reentered the political limelight when he agreed to support George W. Bush's 2000 campaign.

[Lakai]

The MSM is dancing around it, but everyone I've talked to about Powell's endorsement is saying Powell did it because Obama is black. It's hard not to make that leap of logic when no other member of the Bush administration is supporting Obama.

Not that I blame him for it, but his endorsement won't change any votes.

[gravitycrash]

Amazing. Now we get racism along with sexism in to the race. Good job Powell. You are an asshole who kissed bush's ass for far too long. Now you want to whine because your wife nixed your presidential bid.

Fuck off.

[Marley23]

Amazing. Now we get racism along with sexism in to the race. Good job Powell.
Oh, yeah, I'm off to Pit Colin Powell for introducing racism to this presidential election. You didn't hear a peep about it until he butted in.

[Lobohan]

First off, saying he only endorsed Obama because he's black is in itself a little racist.

I, being a rational human being who actually thinks about stuff once in a awhile find Obama to be the only choice possible. Why is it impossible that Powell, a very intelligent human being, and a very moderate republican could come up to the same decision?

Are black people too simple to think about issues? The country is full of sane, intelligent moderate republicans who are sick of McCain's lying bullshit and want the country put back on the tracks. Just because you don't like it, don't pretend you know that race is the deciding factor.

[tnetennba]

Amazing. Now we get racism along with sexism in to the race. Good job Powell. You are an asshole who kissed bush's ass for far too long. Now you want to whine because your wife nixed your presidential bid.

Fuck off.

What the hell are you talking about?

[tnetennba]

Rather than start a new thread (I thought about it), I'm curious -- what endorsement would be a slam dunk for either candidate? Like with Powell, it seems like an endorsement from across the aisle has more impact. What if, say, Bill Clinton endorsed McCain, or New Gingrich endorsed Obama? Would it matter, or just create news waves? Is there anyone that would make you reconsider your choice?

[Ca3799]

I'd click on that link, but I am afraid I would lose my soul.

I don't go to that site, but just for your information, there are 544 pages of comments and about 50 comments per page.

As your doctor (not really), I'd advise you to avoid the place.

[Richard Parker]

Isn't it possible--probable even?--that Obama asked Powell to hold off on an endorsement until he needed to capture a few media cycles? Powell said he decided after the Conventions. Arguably, Obama wanted to wait until there were no more pre-determined news cycles (debates, etc.).

[Marley23]

That's what I said earlier. Powell said he only decided to go public last week, didn't tell the two campaigns his plans in advance. I'm not sure I believe that, but anyway it's what he said.

[Bricker]

Isn't it possible--probable even?--that Obama asked Powell to hold off on an endorsement until he needed to capture a few media cycles? Powell said he decided after the Conventions. Arguably, Obama wanted to wait until there were no more pre-determined news cycles (debates, etc.).

It's possible, but unlikely, since Senator Obama has said publicly that Gen. Powell did not consult with him prior to making this announcement, and I believe this to be true because he said it.

On the endorsement: this is huge.

It's motivated, I believe, primarily by conviction, because it's obviously NOT self-serving politically.

I believe General Powell to be a man to top-notch intellect and integrity. Unlike many commentators on this board, who believed he lied to the U.N., I believe that Powell simply relied on intel that turned out to be bad. I thought that last week, and following his endorsement this weekend, I feel even more strongly that he's a man of intellectual courage and strong integrity.

The only thing about this event that pisses me off is the babbling of idiots on both sides. In the conservative blabbosphere, it's amazing how much respect has suddenly vanished for Powell; in the equivalent liberal blabbosphere, suddenly he's redeemed himself.

Nonsense, on both fronts. He's a great man who has said what he's thinking, and they're thoughts that have surely crossed the minds of many reasonable conservatives. I applaud Powell, and... wow. What a bombshell!

[Tom Scud]

It's motivated, I believe, primarily by conviction, because it's obviously NOT self-serving politically.


Just to be a devil's advocate: Powell is 71; if he wants another senior government position it probably has to be in the next administration. And Obama will very likely be looking to add some kind of moderate Republican to his cabinet. So Powell could have something to gain, there.

[Spoke]

It's motivated, I believe, primarily by conviction, because it's obviously NOT self-serving politically.

It's not? Obama: Powell will have a role in administration. (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/10/20/obama1020.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

[Bricker]

It's not? Obama: Powell will have a role in administration. (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/10/20/obama1020.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

Well, OK. I concede that it might be, but it's a big roll of the dice. (Assuming that we still accept that Obama and Powell did not communicate directly or by proxy, that is -- Powell would have to go out on a limb and endorse, hoping he'd be rewarded?)

I still say the most likely explanation is that this was not motivated by political calculation for gain.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Just to be a devil's advocate: Powell is 71; if he wants another senior government position it probably has to be in the next administration. And Obama will very likely be looking to add some kind of moderate Republican to his cabinet. So Powell could have something to gain, there.
I highly doubt he's motivated by personal interest. Powell was arguably the most popular (political) figure in America in 1996 and 2000; the Republican nomination was his for the taking. If he accepts a post in the next administration, it will be because he feels he can serve the nation, not because he wants to get his name out there.

While I don't share Bricker's attitude toward his work in the run-up to the Iraq invasion, I do believe he's not motivated by personal ambition.

I also frankly couldn't care less if his endorsement is race-based. Black people have been getting the shaft in America (and most other places) for a couple of centuries. I strongly believe that a black President would be the single best thing that could happen for African-Americans, in terms of challenging established notions of what it means to be black and American.

That said, I don't think it is; Powell laid out a fairly convincing rationale, and his personal politics have always seemed more in line with Democratic ideals. He sort of reminds me of Zell Miller backwards.

[Bricker]

He sort of reminds me of Zell Miller backwards.

Who I also admire, and for the same reasons.

[Bosstone]

I highly doubt he's motivated by personal interest. Powell was arguably the most popular (political) figure in America in 1996 and 2000; the Republican nomination was his for the taking.
Obama versus Powell would have been vastly more interesting, if not more entertaining.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Who I also admire, and for the same reasons.
You admire him for being in the wrong party?

[Phlosphr]

Personally, I think Powell endorsed Obama to sway the moderate/independants into jumping full swing to Obama. Shifting yet again the tide to Obama...Powell knew his endorsement would bring over some republicans - no question in my mind about that. Powell also knew McCain would not be the best choice in 2 weeks and he clearly stated why he will be voting for Obama, and people will follow his lead.

On NPR this morning they polled people coming out of McCain's rally -telling them Powell endorsed Obama. Many of them were shocked, some of them were very saddened. The republicans can feel a loss coming, its in the air.

[ralph124c]

I hat to say it, but i lost all respect for Colin powell after his WOMD UN speech. i ACTUALLY belived him, when they showed the film clips (of the fake "bio-labs", and the planes spraying bio weapons fogs). The man went along with the Buch-Cheney line, and never apoligized for it.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

It's not? Obama: Powell will have a role in administration. (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/10/20/obama1020.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)
Powell could just as easily have had a job in a McCain administration.

For that matter, he could have had the Republican nomination for Prez.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I hat to say it, but i lost all respect for Colin powell after his WOMD UN speech. i ACTUALLY belived him, when they showed the film clips (of the fake "bio-labs", and the planes spraying bio weapons fogs). The man went along with the Buch-Cheney line, and never apoligized for it.
He didn't apologise for it, but he has accepted that the premise for the war was faulty. In politico-speak, that's about as close as anyone ever gets to an actual apology.

[Tom Scud]

Powell could just as easily have had a job in a McCain administration.

I'm not sure he could. McCain's foreign policy advisors are dominated by the neocons and other aggressive nationalist-types, who already HATE Powell for getting in the way (however ineffectually) of Rumsfeld and Cheney back in the day.

For that matter, he could have had the Republican nomination for Prez.

Not in 2008. No domestic-policy base, and the most influential foreign-policy base in the party hates his guts.

[Sampiro]

Community organizer, lawyer, constitutional law professor, state legislator for several years, United States Senator. Palin: mayor of town of about 10,000, Governor of the Great State of Alaska for a short time, hockey mom hottie. Palin is a very big fish in a politically small pond, Obama is a big fish in a big pond. Palin got condemned for ethics by her own party for trying to get her brother-in-law fired. Obama has no ethics charges pending, nor criticism from within his own party. Experience here is not close for people who are not "in the tank" for Palin.

"The Second Stone admitted today that "Obama has no ethics".

This concludes today's Fox Broadcasting Journalism School spin lesson.
-------------------------

Obama was also a Constitutional law professor for 12 years at the 7th highest ranked law school in the U.S. as well as editor of the Harvard Law Review, the most prestigious college publication in the nation.

All of the people saying "Powell is voting for Obama because he's black", I would love to know- do you think that McCain would have chosen Palin if she looked like Rhea Perlman or even Kathy Bates? Also, what from Powell's past suggests this (other than being born black [or actually biracial- both of his parents had Scots-Irish and English ancestry as well])? A specific incident please. (This is the man who after leaving the Bush Administration defended them on Katrina, saying that the fault was with the city for not preparing for the hurricane [a reasonable and understandable position] and has been called a "house boy" and worse by black activists (Harry Belafonte and Spike Lee among the more notable) for towing the party line.

Now that he's nearer the end of his life than the beginning and a multimillionaire yet supports a candidate who's already pledged to increase taxes on the rich. Perhaps he wants his grandchildren to have an inheritance from him that's not just money.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I'm not sure he could. McCain's foreign policy advisors are dominated by the neocons and other aggressive nationalist-types, who already HATE Powell for getting in the way (however ineffectually) of Rumsfeld and Cheney back in the day.
McCain sold out to the neocons and the Christian Right to win election, but that doesn't mean his appointees would work that way, too. I highly doubt he'd plan for a second term if he won this one.

[Troy McClure SF]

The MSM is dancing around it, but everyone I've talked to about Powell's endorsement is saying Powell did it because Obama is black.

You need to talk to less-stupid people.

[Really Not All That Bright]

(This is the man who after leaving the Bush Administration defended them on Katrina, saying that the fault was with the city for not preparing for the hurricane [a reasonable and understandable position] and has been called a "house boy" and worse by black activists (Harry Belafonte and Spike Lee among the more notable) for towing the party line.
He didn't defend the Administration on Katrina; he was openly critical of the response. What he did do was steer the conversation from "Bush hates black people" to "Bush hates poor people".

[Sampiro]

Documentary on Colin Powell (http://www.hulu.com/watch/1393/saturday-night-live-colins-place)now popular with GOP.

[Tom Scud]

McCain sold out to the neocons and the Christian Right to win election, but that doesn't mean his appointees would work that way, too.

He sold out to the Christian Right, but he's always been at least on the same wavelength as the neocons. "National Greatness" always had a large element of interventionism abroad. I don't think he has the same animus against Powell as some neocon commentators, but he really isn't very close to Powell's more realist outlook on foreign policy.

[Really Not All That Bright]

He sold out to the Christian Right, but he's always been at least on the same wavelength as the neocons. "National Greatness" always had a large element of interventionism abroad. I don't think he has the same animus against Powell as some neocon commentators, but he really isn't very close to Powell's more realist outlook on foreign policy.
No, but then neither was Bush II, despite his campaign promises to the contrary.

[Bricker]

You admire him for being in the wrong party?

For being willing to cross party lines to speak on a matter of importance, instead of toe the party line.

[Really Not All That Bright]

For being willing to cross party lines to speak on a matter of importance, instead of toe the party line.
Zell Miller crosses party lines on virtually all matters. He very rarely, if ever, voted with the party.

[Spoke]

Powell could just as easily have had a job in a McCain administration.

That's sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed him (and then accepted a job in the McCain administration).

Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date.

Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate my estimation of Powell.

[Lakai]

You need to talk to less-stupid people.

Very good. When you come back, bring an argument.

[Tuckerfan]

Well, OK. I concede that it might be, but it's a big roll of the dice. (Assuming that we still accept that Obama and Powell did not communicate directly or by proxy, that is -- Powell would have to go out on a limb and endorse, hoping he'd be rewarded?)

I still say the most likely explanation is that this was not motivated by political calculation for gain.

A number of Dopers with military connections have stated on numerous occassions that Powell is most definately a "political general." Maybe they're full of shit, maybe they're not, I dunno, but I wouldn't be so sure that there wasn't a political motivation behind his endorsement.

[Marley23]

Very good. When you come back, bring an argument.
He said what I was thinking. Who did you talk to? What are their political leanings or their reasons for believing that Powell didn't consider anything except race? If you say everybody you talked to said that, I believe you, but I think everybody you talked to said something stupid.

[DSeid]

Very good. When you come back, bring an argument.
Not to pile on, but maybe this snark would be called for if your comment was more than a small bit of anecdotes. I mean I haven't heard it once among my friends and coworkers but that means as little as the fact that you've heard it among yours.

I've heard it from the Right wing talking heads but what effect does that have now? They are not talking to the swingables, they are trying to get the base to just not give up and stay home.

At this particular point the people who matter are the swingables: those still undecided and those marginally attached.

Are your friends a good sample of those folks? Maybe they are, and maybe they are even stupid after all. :) (The two are not mutually exclusive.) Let us assume that they are representative for the sake of discussion, and that many swingables are likely to believe that Powell is only endorsing Obama because of shared complexion issues. If so will that make them any less likely to vote for Obama or be neutral? If neutral then the fact that this winds down the clock is still a plus for Team Obama. Beyond that "some" is not "all". Some swingables will react to the Right's dismissal of Powell as being a race issue as just more negativity and with distaste. Some swingables actually have respect for Powell and will not believe the dismissive crap even if hey are not offended by it - they may just end up more comfortable with their recent choice to of Obama than they had been, or be just a little bit more open to be swung over from neutral, or a little less likely to come out to vote against him.

So even if your friends are a representative of a large chunk of swingables (and lord knows mine are not), if they will just not be moved by this endorsement either way then the net is still a nice plus for Obama ... anything that helps cement things where they are is good for his chances.

[Gangster Octopus]

That's sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed him (and then accepted a job in the McCain administration).

Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date.

Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate my estimation of Powell.

Why can't Powell be like any other fence sitter, uncertain until recent events, persuaded by Obama's demeanor in the debates, turned off by Republican antics, etc. He sid himself that he has known John McCain for many years and was probably willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in the end just decided that McCain has shown poor judgement.

[Troy McClure SF]

Very good. When you come back, bring an argument.

Powell did it because Obama is black.
Actually, those making accusations are supposed to bring the argument, but hey, I'll handicap ya.

It's hard not to make that leap of logic when no other member of the Bush administration is supporting Obama.Pretty much all of Bush's administration has been in lockstep with the Republican Party this whole time. Has something changed to make that unlikely now?

[Really Not All That Bright]

A number of Dopers with military connections have stated on numerous occassions that Powell is most definately a "political general." Maybe they're full of shit, maybe they're not, I dunno, but I wouldn't be so sure that there wasn't a political motivation behind his endorsement.
I looked through every thread with "Colin Powell" in the title, and only found one (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8722256&postcount=4) such statement:
when I was still wearing a uniform, Powell always had the stink of "political general" about him - Always knew which way the winds were blowing, and was always in line with those trends.
Anyway, he's had ample time to publicly decry lots of naughty things the Bush Administration has done, including claiming that Administration officials pulled the wool over his eyes, rather than the intelligence community. So far, he's refused to do so, which would seem to indicate that he's not all about his public image.

Speaking of things Dopers said about Powell in previous threads...
...Powell may be hesitant to give a public endorsement, because he doesn't want his name to become a substitute for an actual debate on the issues.
That's a pretty good point, no (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157528&postcount=30)?
I have no doubt Powell will come out strongly in favour of whichever candidate first establishes a commanding lead.
On the other hand, that now sounds remarkably prescient (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10157929&postcount=34).

[Voyager]

That's sort of my point. If McCain were currently ahead by a significant margin, one wonders whether Powell would have come out and endorsed him (and then accepted a job in the McCain administration).

Powell just looks like a band-wagoner, springing his endorsement at this late date.

Hey, I hope the endorsement persuades some fence-sitters, but it does nothing to elevate my estimation of Powell.

The Obama campaign said that Powell's endorsement came at the perfect time. The Times said that Obama and Powell met once, and spoke on the phone a number of times. McCain hasn't spoken to Powell since at least June.

So, it seems very likely Obama convinced him a while ago, and they settled on this weekend for the announcement. Under other circumstances it could have been a really big deal, as it was it made the front pages of all the papers I get.
I doubt Powell is going to get any position in the Obama administration (or that he wants one) but Obama is good at collecting advisers, and Powell would demonstrate that he reaches across the aisle. The New Yorker article on the foreign policy of McCain and Obama said that Obama has 500 advisers in a variety of areas of foreign policy, only 3 of whom are paid.

[Tuckerfan]

I looked through every thread with "Colin Powell" in the title, and only found one (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8722256&postcount=4) such statement:
You're a braver drudge than I am. None of them, as I recall, backed up their assertions with anything like a verifiable cite, so its not like finding dozens of them would have proven much of anything anyway.
Anyway, he's had ample time to publicly decry lots of naughty things the Bush Administration has done, including claiming that Administration officials pulled the wool over his eyes, rather than the intelligence community. So far, he's refused to do so, which would seem to indicate that he's not all about his public image.IIRC, Powell's been spending his time on the "rubber chicken dinner" circuit since leaving office. No doubt he's been well paid for his appearances, coming out and saying, "The Bush Administration lied to me (or forced me to lie, or are a bunch of mindless jerks who should be the first with their backs up against the wall when the revolution comes)." would probably significantly impact his earning potential in a negative direction.

[Really Not All That Bright]

You're a braver drudge than I am. None of them, as I recall, backed up their assertions with anything like a verifiable cite, so its not like finding dozens of them would have proven much of anything anyway.

IIRC, Powell's been spending his time on the "rubber chicken dinner" circuit since leaving office. No doubt he's been well paid for his appearances, coming out and saying, "The Bush Administration lied to me (or forced me to lie, or are a bunch of mindless jerks who should be the first with their backs up against the wall when the revolution comes)." would probably significantly impact his earning potential in a negative direction.
Well, it's not a massively controversial proposition [that Powell is a bandwagon guy]. I just think they may be mistaking centrism for poll-following.

I'm pretty sure he'd make a lot more money on the lecture circuit or book tours if he'd come out and said something shocking ("Bush threatened to eat my son's penis if I didn't tell the UN we should invade Iraq!") than by being the guy who quietly disagreed with Administration policy.

[Tuckerfan]

Well, it's not a massively controversial proposition [that Powell is a bandwagon guy]. I just think they may be mistaking centrism for poll-following.

I'm pretty sure he'd make a lot more money on the lecture circuit or book tours if he'd come out and said something shocking ("Bush threatened to eat my son's penis if I didn't tell the UN we should invade Iraq!") than by being the guy who quietly disagreed with Administration policy.Maybe. He might be labelled as a bastard by both sides. The Right calling him "a traitor," while the Left roasting him for not coming out and speaking when it could have done some good. (Lets face it, if he'd walked out of the Administration during the runup to the war, and announced that it was because there was no evidence for WMDs, it would have no doubt put a serious kink in the Admin's plans, to say the least.)

[Really Not All That Bright]

Maybe. He might be labelled as a bastard by both sides. The Right calling him "a traitor," while the Left roasting him for not coming out and speaking when it could have done some good. (Lets face it, if he'd walked out of the Administration during the runup to the war, and announced that it was because there was no evidence for WMDs, it would have no doubt put a serious kink in the Admin's plans, to say the least.)
Sure. I prefer to assume that he genuinely didn't know, whether or not the Administration did. While I'm not a personal fan of Powell's politics [see "lifting ban on gays in military", opposition to], I like to think that an honorable soldier wouldn't support an invasion that would put American (or anyone else's) lives at risk for no good reason.

That goes double given Powell's opposition to interference in the Kosovo crisis, etc.

ETA: Personally, I believed there were WMDs even after we hadn't found them for a while. My opposition to the war was based entirely on other factors (already in Afghanistan, dangerous foreign policy precedent to set vis-a-vis unprovoked aggression, obvious lies and half-truths being told like "Saddam is in cahoots with Al Quaeda", the complete inability of the American public to understand what it was getting into)

[RickJay]

Sure. I prefer to assume that he genuinely didn't know, whether or not the Administration did. While I'm not a personal fan of Powell's politics [see "lifting ban on gays in military", opposition to], I like to think that an honorable soldier wouldn't support an invasion that would put American (or anyone else's) lives at risk for no good reason.
Bolding emphasis mine.

Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment.

Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment.

Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career.
When he dies, his headstone will say "General".

[Lakai]

He said what I was thinking. Who did you talk to? What are their political leanings or their reasons for believing that Powell didn't consider anything except race? If you say everybody you talked to said that, I believe you, but I think everybody you talked to said something stupid.

Actually, those making accusations are supposed to bring the argument, but hey, I'll handicap ya.

I didn't think it was that far fetched to assume that a 71 year old black man would support the first viable black candidate for president.

Now I didn't mean to say Powell doesn't consider anything but race. But race is probably what put Obama over the edge. I think people are underestimating how large of a motivator race is in getting black people to vote for Obama. I can't say for certain that if Obama was white Powell wouldn't be voting for McCain.

For me, Obama means a step away from religious extremism and divisive politics. For Colin Powell it also means a huge step toward ending racial discrimination. A generation of black children would grow up believing something everyone thought impossible before this January. A generation of white children will grow up seeing a black family in the oval office.

There are powerful reasons for why Powell, who grew up during segregation, would want to see a black president. That motivation he has in seeing a black president shouldn't be so easily dismissed as stupid.

[tnetennba]

For all their gibbering about supporting the troops, it's always interesting to see how quickly Republicans will throw a decorated war hero or even a general under the bus when it suits them... including John McCain, actually.

[Captain Carrot]

I didn't think it was that far fetched to assume that a 71 year old black man would support the first viable black candidate for president.

Now I didn't mean to say Powell doesn't consider anything but race. But race is probably what put Obama over the edge. I think people are underestimating how large of a motivator race is in getting black people to vote for Obama. I can't say for certain that if Obama was white Powell wouldn't be voting for McCain. Bull. Powell damn well knew Obama was black six months ago, but only endorsed him now. Race didn't put Obama over the top, sensible policies and a far more ethical campaign did.

[Lakai]

Bull. Powell damn well knew Obama was black six months ago, but only endorsed him now. Race didn't put Obama over the top, sensible policies and a far more ethical campaign did.

I think race was a high motivator, but Obama's sensible policies were justification.

They gave Powell a good reason to endorse Obama.

[ladyfoxfyre]

Obama's policies were justification for the real reason Powell supported Obama, his race? Are you smoking something?

[Tuckerfan]

I wonder if Powell thinks Obama has the same kind of reputation as Sen. Ted "a series of tubes to nowhere's bridge" Stevens? (http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/721413.html) Colin Powell, the retired Army general and former secretary of state, characterized Sen. Ted Stevens in court Friday as a "trusted individual" and a man with a "sterling" reputation.

"He was someone whose word you could rely on," said Powell, who self-deprecatingly described himself as the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who retired and then "dabbled a bit in diplomacy."

Stevens, on trial for lying about gifts on financial disclosure forms, has the right during the defense portion of the trial to ask character witnesses to speak on behalf of his "truthfulness and veracity." The first such character witness, Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, spoke Thursday. Three others are set to testify on Stevens' behalf, but the highest-profile witness, by far, will be Powell.

[Marley23]

I didn't think it was that far fetched to assume that a 71 year old black man would support the first viable black candidate for president.
If that was what you said, I wouldn't have piped up. Race could be a factor in his thinking. I wouldn't blame him if it was, and I notice Condi Rice has been coy about her own vote, too. What you said was different. If you're now saying they didn't call it the sole reason I won't quibble about it, although I do think you're wrong about the amount of importance Powell is placing on race. I don't think that's the type of man he is, but it's not like I'm a personal acquaintance.

[gonzomax]

Bolding emphasis mine.

Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment.

Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career.

Powell started in high school ROTC. He was in the military for 35 years. Now ,he is not a soldier. Go to any VFW post and say that. You can not take the soldier out of them.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

After the way Powell was hung out to dry by the Bush administration, it's not hard to figure out why he'd endorse Obama.

Take an honorable man, stuff him full of false information, parade him in front of the UN and let him be your mouthpiece for war, and then turn your back on him. Piece of work, that.

I wish Powell was Obama's Veep instead of Biden. Now THAT would be interesting (and doubly historic).

[RickJay]

Bull. Powell damn well knew Obama was black six months ago, but only endorsed him now. Race didn't put Obama over the top, sensible policies and a far more ethical campaign did.
I'm going to stick by what I said six weeks ago; Powell endorsed Obama because Obama is winning by a commanding margin.

If McCain was up 5-7 points, McCain would have been endorsed.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Bolding emphasis mine.

Powell was not a soldier at the time. He was the Secretary of State, a political appointment.

Powell has been a political opportunist his entire career.

If that were true, he would have certainly aspired to an office higher than that of a Presidential appointee.

[Tuckerfan]

If that were true, he would have certainly aspired to an office higher than that of a Presidential appointee.

Don't you remember Powell saying that his wife wouldn't let him run for President because she didn't want to deal with the smear campaigns? IIRC, it was in '96 that the idea of him running was floated and he claimed to have seriously considered it.

[DSeid]

There are powerful reasons for why Powell, who grew up during segregation, would want to see a black president. That motivation he has in seeing a black president shouldn't be so easily dismissed as stupid.Ah, but no one is saying that it would be stupid of Powell to have that motivation if he stated that he did. It would in fact be understandable as a contributing factor. What is being called stupid is the assumption by others that such must be the reason, even though Powell explicitly says no, and even though such a motivation is not compatible with the timing of his endorsement. The stupidity goes farther: these individuals who assume a motivation based on nothing more than a skin color even though many much more conservative than he have crossed over to endorse Obama before him for reasons not very different than those expressed by Powell, these very people who make this racist assumption that they know Powell's mind better than he does, that others can cross over to Obama for non-racial reasons but if someone with a darker complexion does then it is only because of race, these idiots then have the chutzpah to call Powell racist for endorsing someone who he feels is the best for the job.

Yeah. Stupid is as stupid does.

[tnetennba]

I'm going to stick by what I said six weeks ago; Powell endorsed Obama because Obama is winning by a commanding margin.

If McCain was up 5-7 points, McCain would have been endorsed.

Cite?

[RickJay]

Cite?
For which?

I can't priove McCain would have been endorsed. It's my opinion, although it's consistent with Powell's entire life's worth of behaviour.

As to whether or not I said six weeks ago Powell would endorse whomever clearly established a big lead, that's linked by someone else a few posts back.

[DSeid]

I tend to doubt that Powell would have endorsed McCain big lead or not. But the concept that Powell only wants to get involved when victory is assured is well established - it was in fact a critical part of the so-called "Powell Doctrine." (http://xkcd.com/56/)The doctrine says troops should be sent in overwhelming numbers or not at all - and only when success is assured. This attitude seems to follow through in his political life. Jump on board once it is clear that victory is assured but do not risk yourself until you are sure that such is the case. Somehow I don't recall his decision to not run back in 2000 so much as a concession to his wife's fear of smears or such, so much as his statement that he didn't have "the fire in the belly" that a run requires ... hand him an appointment but don't make him fight for something that he isn't already sure he is going to win.

So I think big lead was a necessary thing before he endorsed, but I doubt it was a sufficient thing.

[AuntiePam]

To those supporting McCain, does this change your opinion? To those who think Obama is inexperienced do you re-evaluate your stance in the light of his endorsement?


Powell's endorsement impressed my husband, a Vietnam vet who pays no attention to politics and who has voted Republican as long as I've known him. He's always liked Powell and thinks Bush "threw Powell under the bus". I don't know which bus and I'm not gonna ask him. Someone he respects has endorsed Obama -- there's a glimmer of hope. (Now if Obama could just get Adrian Peterson's endorsement, hubby's vote would be in the bag.)

[Really Not All That Bright]

I can't priove McCain would have been endorsed. It's my opinion, although it's consistent with Powell's entire life's worth of behaviour.
You haven't proven that it's consistent with his previous behavior either, though. Indeed, the relevant evidence that has so far been discussed is his consistent refusal to run for President, which is a pretty strong indication that he's anything but an opportunist.

[tnetennba]

I just called my bud AD and he sez "Obama's my main man," and "if McCain gets elected, I'll be too depressed to score touchdowns for the rest of the season."

[Frostillicus]

So I guess if Al Sharpton was the Democratic nominee, Colin Powell would go on MTP and endorse Sharpton over McCain as well, seeing that the only reason he endorsed Obama is because Obama is black.

Right?

[Sampiro]

- it was in fact a critical part of the so-called "Powell Doctrine." (http://xkcd.com/56/)

"What part Charlie?"

[Mosier]

wow. What a bombshell!

Agreed. I never imagined Powell to be so passionate. Who else in the whole political world has the guts to say "so what if he WAS Muslim?" with such frankness.

I honestly believe that if people like him said what they think more often, Democrats vs. Republicans would be more about political issues and less about demonizing the opposition. Whether you or anyone else agrees with his decision is irrelevant. If he had endorsed McCain at the end of that speech, it still would have been a pretty heroic thing to say.

[Tuckerfan]

As The Daily Show pointed out tonight, like Obama, Powell has associated with terrorists. (http://jewishworldreview.com/cols2/powell.arafat.jpg) Obviously, it was Powell's love of terrorism that inspired him to endorse Obama.

[Paul in Qatar]

Also from Powell's appearance:

Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president?

A classy elegant guy who will spend the rest of his life atoning for his appearance at the Security Council.


(http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/colin_powell_endorses_barack_o_1.html <==Why can't I make nice links any more?)

[Really Not All That Bright]

Also from Powell's appearance:

Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president?
For me, he's already atoned, since he finally said what nobody else (even Obama) has had the balls to.

[gonzomax]

The reason he is for Obama is because he is black. Therefore the reason he backed Bush for 4 years was because he is white. There has to be some logic in there.

[Cervaise]

Powell's endorsement impressed my husband, a Vietnam vet who pays no attention to politics and who has voted Republican as long as I've known him.This is heartening. It's been a couple of days since the announcement; is there any evidence the needles on the pollsters' meters have been given a twitch by the news?

[RickJay]

The reason he is for Obama is because he is black. Therefore the reason he backed Bush for 4 years was because he is white. There has to be some logic in there.
Sometimes Bush wore black shoes.

[AuntiePam]

Why can't I make nice links any more?)

Here's what you do (without the spaces and parentheses, of course):

[ url= (your link) ] text [ /url ]

[OttoDaFe]

Or highlight the text you want to appear in the post before clicking the "Insert Link" icon.

[dropzone]

As The Daily Show pointed out tonight, like Obama, Powell has associated with terrorists. (http://jewishworldreview.com/cols2/powell.arafat.jpg)But he speaks some Yiddish. Wouldn't that mean he's in the hip pocket of the International Jewish Bankers?

[Ca3799]

text http://www.cnn.com...text

text.....news (http://www.msnbc.com)

[Lust4Life]

The way its going McCain s going to endorse Obama,at least that way he'll be on the winning side and will be able to disassociate himself from the cringe making embarassment that is Palin.