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poohpah chalupa
11-30-2000, 10:15 PM
On the Island of Misfit Toys, in addition to Charlie-In-The-Box and a choo-choo train with square wheels (among others), there was a red-haired rag doll. What was her name and why was she a misfit?
Also, the (flying) Lion King was named King Moon something

Can anyone help here or do I need to impatiently await for some cable network to broadcast it?

Thanks.

astorian
11-30-2000, 10:26 PM
I know that King Moonracer was the ruler of the Island of Misfit Toys, but have no idea what was supposed to be that pigtailed doll's defect (other than that she was annoying).

Incidentally, most kid's would probably LIKE a water pistol that squirts jelly!

jayjay
11-30-2000, 11:13 PM
Nobody seems to know about the doll. This page (http://www.tvparty.com/xmasrudolph.html), which denotes characters' script names in ALL CAPS, calls her the MISFIT GIRL DOLL and says that producer Arthur Rankin and script writer Romeo Muller both state that the doll's problem is psychological rather than physical, but give no details. There is a link at the bottom of the cited page to a second page continuation.

chique
12-01-2000, 03:15 AM
IIRC, the doll's problem was that she was always sad, and who wants to give their little girl a sad doll?

Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

screech-owl
12-01-2000, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by chique
Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

Ernie?

AWB
12-01-2000, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by chique
Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

Herbie or Hermey? I think the former, but the IMDb lists the former in the plot and the latter in the cast list.

Why A Duck
12-01-2000, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by AWB
Originally posted by chique
Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

Herbie or Hermey? I think the former, but the IMDb lists the former in the plot and the latter in the cast list.

Don't get me started. This one almost cost me a friendship. Every sane person knows the elf is Hermey. Listen to the show, it's obvious.

Of course, this is the same friend that I got into a big argument over the implied race of the anthropomorphic syrup bottle in the Mrs. Butterworth ads. (Don't ask)

ElvisL1ves
12-01-2000, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by AWB
Originally posted by chique
Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

Herbie or Hermey? I think the former, but the IMDb lists the former in the plot and the latter in the cast list.

Definitely Herbie.

pldennison
12-01-2000, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by ElvisL1ves
Originally posted by AWB
Originally posted by chique
Of course, I'm the one that can never rememeber the name of the elf who wanted to be a dentist, so I'm probably wrong.

Herbie or Hermey? I think the former, but the IMDb lists the former in the plot and the latter in the cast list.

Definitely Herbie.

Definitely Hermey. I have the DVD.

screech-owl
12-01-2000, 07:39 AM
Not Ernie.
Not awake yet.
That's what I get for typing before thinking.
Sorry.

We now return you to the Hermey/Herbie debates.







It's Herbie on the closed captioning, but who's gonna believe me.

don Jaime
12-01-2000, 09:12 AM
They said "Herbie" on MST3K. That's good enough for me.

Mrs. Butterworth is supposed to be white. I think you're confusing her with Aunt Jemima.

jayjay
12-01-2000, 09:23 AM
Same URL as my last post states that it's HERMEY in the script.

jayjay
12-01-2000, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by don Jaime
They said "Herbie" on MST3K. That's good enough for me.


The Brains have been known to get details wrong on occasion. They completely missed the fact that every exterior shot in "Space Mutiny" was Battlestar Galactica stock footage, which definitely deserved a riff. The script says the elf's name is HERMEY, so that's pretty much the authority.

don Jaime
12-01-2000, 09:39 AM
WHOOSH!

poohpah chalupa
12-01-2000, 09:48 AM
thanks for the info, jayjay...while it doesn't answer my question, it does put a definitive interpretation (by the creators) to it.
Psychological problems? This opens up a whole can of provocative worms (another misfit toy?). Is she clinically depressed (as alluded to by chique)? Bi-polar? Does she slut around (maybe that's why the elephant is spotted)?

Ukulele Ike
12-01-2000, 10:19 AM
Hey! My FATHER'S name was Hymie!

jayjay
12-01-2000, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by don Jaime
WHOOSH!

Ya know, I hear that sound all the time...usually right after I post something. Wonder what it is?

;)

August West
12-01-2000, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Ukulele Ike
Hey! My FATHER'S name was Hymie!

Oh, it was not. :)

Elf's name was Hermey (or possibly hermie), we had a three day bar argument about this one once.

poohpah chalupa
12-01-2000, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by ChiefWahoo
Elf's name was Hermey...we had a three day bar argument about this one once.

oops.
I guess I should've posted this on the GD board.

:D

drpepper
12-01-2000, 12:51 PM
My vote is Hermy (with an 'm', anyway).

Also, it's been years since I've seen it, but didn't the doll have a button eye that was hanging by a thread or something?

pldennison
12-01-2000, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Ukulele Ike
Hey! My FATHER'S name was Hymie!

"Oh, I'm just wild about Hymie,
and he's just wild about me!
Oh, I'm just wild about Hymie,
and he's just wild about,
cannot live without,
he's just wild about me!
H-Y-M-I-E! H-Y-M-I-E-H-Y-M-I-E!
Hymieeeeee!"

--D. Duck

Doctor Jackson
12-01-2000, 01:03 PM
Actually, the dolls's name was Hoosier. She was deemed a misfit because, instead of "Mommy!", she said "Daddy!". After all, would you give your daughter a "Hoosier Daddy" doll?

Actually, maybe I just made that up.

Inky-
12-01-2000, 02:08 PM
I have it on good authority that the misfit doll was a boy doll trapped in a girl doll's body.

And as for the elf guy, I have him pegged as "Hermie" myself.

City Gent
12-01-2000, 02:32 PM
Was it just me, or did the "Abominible (sic) Snowmonster" scare holy hell out of anyone else?

As a young'un, I was in such pants-shitting terror of him that I would refuse to let my parents turn the TV back on once he made his appearance. Happened every year until I was at least...who am I kidding, it still happens.

Oh, and it is definitely "Hermey"

MovieMogul
12-01-2000, 02:35 PM
The IMDB lists him as Hermey

Freudian Slit
12-01-2000, 03:30 PM
Rudolph's voice was so cute. :)
"Okay, King Moonracer!"

And the little reindeer who couldn't fly...

One question I have: how does the father Reindeer (Donner?) originally cover up Rudolph's nose? Hitting him on the nose? Ah I call child abuse on that....:D

Anake
12-01-2000, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Zoggie
One question I have: how does the father Reindeer (Donner?) originally cover up Rudolph's nose? Hitting him on the nose? Ah I call child abuse on that....:D

I believe in the cartoon he scraped some mud from the cave ground and put it on Rudolph's blinking nose. I always thought Donner was a bastard, the way he treated his own son. Plus, Rudolph's mom (does she have a name?) never backed Rudolph up.

From,

Anake

PS: It's Hermie.

minlokwat
12-01-2000, 05:42 PM
Anyone catch the sinister assassination plot at the end of the cartoon? (Just like the Munchkin suicide on the Wizard of Oz, only different.)

At the end of the cartoon, Santa is flying on his sled and an elf is seen releasing all of the newly-rescued misfit toys.

The elf gives either a parachute or umbrella-like device --which works just as well in the cartoons-- to all of the toys.
Then the elf comes to a bird.

The bird had previously indicated an inability to fly which was the cause of his/her misfit status.

The elf equips all of the other toys with some means of flight except for this one particular toy (watch it and you'll see) who no doubt plummets to an untimely and gruesome death.

While it is possible that during the interim, the bird somehow acquired the ability to fly, that scenario seems highly unlikely.

Any other eagle-eyed observers notice this nefarious twist of events?

DrFidelius
12-01-2000, 07:55 PM
FWIW, I have long thought that the doll was a lesbian. Either that or a cross-dresser.

Astroboy14
12-01-2000, 09:28 PM
City Gent, not only did the 'bumble scare the hell out of me as a child... I still get goosebumps whenever I see Rudolph!!

DAVEW0071
12-01-2000, 09:39 PM
Well, we have it on videotape, and it's traditional to watch it every Christmas season. It's also traditional for Dad (i.e. me) to corrupt the show with my own interpretive salvos. During the Misfit Toy Song, when they get to the part that goes, "A scooter for Jimmy, a dolly for Sue. The kind that will even say, How do you do" I always sing, "The kind that will even say, Up yer wazoo." In a gravelly, Brooklyn truck driver voice. This, in my estimation, makes the doll a real misfit.

Not only that, but I have noticed the assassination plot. I have even gone so far as to make pleading noises when each toy is tossed out of the sleigh and scream piteously as they plummet. It sure livens up the evening and somehow brings the true meaning of Christmas home to my loved ones.

I always thought the elf's name was Herbie, but I defer to the DVD and the IMdB. Also the CIA, the FBI and the FDIC.

Gilligan
12-01-2000, 09:43 PM
I just hope Mad TV airs "Raging Rudolph" again this year.

Freudian Slit
12-01-2000, 10:17 PM
Yes, Donner wouldn't win father of the year award.

The red haired doll's problems were "psychological"? That just sounds a bit odd- being that this is a kid's TV special. Are we reading into this a bit much, or is Rudolph more profound than we thought?

Oh! And remember the head elf, who was so obsequious around Santa, but a real dictator with the other elves?
"Thank you, Santa!...That sounded TERRIBLE! The tenor section was weak!"
Real ass kisser. :)

If it comes on again this year, I have to watch it. Its been so many years!

ElvisL1ves
12-02-2000, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Anake
Plus, Rudolph's mom (does she have a name?) never backed Rudolph up.

Maybe she was Olive? The other reindeer?

OK, the elf was Hermie, I give up. My daughter says so.

monkeylucifer
12-02-2000, 11:22 AM
Unfortunately, the doll is not named. If you check out the website (http://www.playingmantis.com/ml/news_details.asp?MyArea=ct&articleid=317) for the newly released action figures from the show, you can see that the doll comes packaged with Rudolph, and is refered to as "the Misfit Doll". Hermey comes with dentist's tools and pulled teeth from the Bumble (http://pages.map.com/starwars/rumble/) (Bumble sold seperately (http://www.playingmantis.com/ml/news_details.asp?MyArea=ct&articleid=316))!!!!

If you want to learn more about Bumbles and elfs who wish to be dentists, then visit your local library and check out The Enchanted World of Rankin/Bass (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964954281/ref=cm_mp_wl/107-0417248-1185337?colid=2CX1GG5VI8FMB).

Man, how I live for moments such as this, when my normally useless knowledge sees a brief shining moment in the sun.

Beruang
12-03-2000, 09:59 PM
Hermie. Definitely.

I thought it was "King Moonraiser."

The doll is manic-depressive. Watch her mood swings. That makes her a misfit.

"A Cowboy Who Rides An Ostrich" would be a kick-ass name for a rock 'n' roll band.

The annual airing of "Rudolph" on CBS marks the OFFICIAL start of the Christmas season. This year it's on Tuesday, December 5.

Silver and gold, silver and gold...

Beadalin
12-05-2000, 04:37 PM
It's going to be on CBS tonight! WOO HOO!

Also, I just bought the Yukon Cornelius and Rudolph figurines (Rudolph's nose lights up!) and the elf is listed as "Hermey" on the back of the boxes. I always thought it was Herbie, but I guess not.

minlokwat
12-05-2000, 06:01 PM
Yes it's on tonight, CBS 8:00 EST.

It just occurred to me that we really should have included some SPOILER warnings in this thread. You know... just in case. :-)

BurnMeUp
12-05-2000, 06:04 PM
I always thought the "Dentist" angle was a thinly veiled term for homosexuality. Like when Hermie and Rudolf meet and Hermie says "you don't mind that i'm .... a dentist" with his effeminate voice...

it's don't ask don't tell time for Rudolf and Hermie

Freudian Slit
12-05-2000, 08:10 PM
So many things i never picked up. Lets ask Esprix what he thinks of Hermie. (Yes, HerMIE.)

Also it was pretty sexist, but in a laughable way.
"Mrs. Donner wanted to go too, but Donner said, 'No, this was men's work."

And...
"They figured they'd best get the womenfolk back to Chrimastown."

Plus Rudolph's mom never had her own name.

Paraphrasing there a bit.
I guess reindeer never had a liberation movement.

My dad was making fun of the movie- since it was a bit hokey looking...but still, its a classic! And I did notice the bit with the owl at the end.

Cabbage
12-05-2000, 08:23 PM
Yep, I watched it again tonight for the first time in many years. The bird murder scene was quite cruel. There's the elf, equipping each toy with its own personal umbrella to guide it safely down to earth, until he comes to the bird. The elf even pulls out an umbrella, opens it, holding bird in one hand, umbrella in the other, as if to give one final taunt. The viewer is expecting the elf to hand over the umbrella at any moment, when suddenly, with no change of expression and showing no remorse, the elf simply tosses the bird over the sled, with complete and utter disregard for any sanctity of life.

Oh, the humanity.

Hail Ants
12-05-2000, 09:30 PM
My brother was watching this with his kids. He had pounded a few beers and when Mrs. Clause starts shouting, "eat Santa, eat!", he came back with, "yeah, drink Santa, drink!" Been something of a partying catchphrase ever since.

Anyway, is the person (I always assumed a woman) who voiced Rudolph still around? (S)he was somewhat famous in the voiceover business, having done such characters as Speedy the Alka-Seltzer guy and Davie from Davie & Goliath (that religious kid's show).

BobT
12-06-2000, 12:30 AM
At the end of the show, Santa's sleigh only has seven reindeer on it.

As for the voice of Rudolph, it was Billie Mae Richards. She was in a movie as recently as 1997.

MovieMogul
12-06-2000, 02:51 AM
Yep, I watched it again tonight for the first time in many years. The bird murder scene was quite cruel. There's the elf, equipping each toy with its own personal umbrella to guide it safely down to earth, until he comes to the bird. The elf even pulls out an umbrella, opens it, holding bird in one hand, umbrella in the other, as if to give one final taunt. The viewer is expecting the elf to hand over the umbrella at any moment, when suddenly, with no change of expression and showing no remorse, the elf simply tosses the bird over the sled, with complete and utter disregard for any sanctity of life.

I just watched it tonight too and saw something completely different. All the other toys before the bird grabbed the umbrella; it looked like the elf was waiting for the bird to do the same, but the bird looked at the umbrella, and then chose to fly off itself (a miracle!). I also did not see the elf's right arm (the one without the umbrella) move, so IMHO no tossing occurred.

Cabbage
12-06-2000, 06:47 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, now that the defense has given his closing statement, the case is now in your hands.

Did the elf, as I claim, ruthlessly and maliciously deny this bird an umbrella? An umbrella which would provide him free passage from Santa's sled, down to the surface of the earth. An umbrella, without which my client would most assuredly plummet to certain death upon arrival at his destination, being that he is a bird gifted with swim, however, deprived of flight.

Or, as ArchiveGuy, elf defense attorney, claims, did this bird suddenly gain an ability to fly, and therefore willfully waive any and all rights to possession of the umbrella upon this discovered ability.

I ask you--Has an ostrish ever been known to soar among the clouds? Has an emu ever flapped from treetop to treetop, sailing through the wind? I think not; a bird, at once without flight, shall always be without flight.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I am outraged. If the bird does not fly, it shall surely die.

This case is now yours to decide.

ladybug
12-06-2000, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Cabbage
Yep, I watched it again tonight for the first time in many years. The bird murder scene was quite cruel. There's the elf, equipping each toy with its own personal umbrella to guide it safely down to earth, until he comes to the bird. The elf even pulls out an umbrella, opens it, holding bird in one hand, umbrella in the other, as if to give one final taunt. The viewer is expecting the elf to hand over the umbrella at any moment, when suddenly, with no change of expression and showing no remorse, the elf simply tosses the bird over the sled, with complete and utter disregard for any sanctity of life.

Oh, the humanity.

I mentioned this in another thread last night. I've watched Rudolph every year for as long as I can remember, but somehow I only noticed the part with the bird about five years ago.

It seems that all these years we've been watching a toy homicide passed off as wholesome family holiday entertainment.

He was pushed, I tell you! Pushed!

poohpah chalupa
12-06-2000, 08:10 AM
Guilty!
Hang the bastard elf!

Esprix
12-06-2000, 10:14 AM
It was just on TV last night, actually, and I do have the videotape.

Personally I think Hermie and the Charlie-in-a-box have a little something-something going on, knaamean? ;)

Esprix

WIGGUM
12-06-2000, 10:14 AM
Some of you are very close, but you simply have the facts mixed up.

The doll was actually a hermaphrodite. I've watched the film frame by frame, and in one scene, a breeze blows the doll's dress up, and both sexual organs are clearly visible for two full frames. Consequently, it is the doll and not the elf who is named "Hermie" for obvious reasons.

Glad to be of help.

Inky-
12-06-2000, 11:15 AM
I watched it last night as well and just realized that there were a bunch of really out of date references in it, kind of like those old Bugs Bunny cartoons from WWII or those Woody Woodpecker cartoons where he's stealing ration books.

I got that there was a Phil Silvers elf (of the old Sgt. Bilko show, pretty big in it's day). He was the bald elf with the thick, black glasses who was lazing off and eventually as comeuppance gets stuffed in a bag. But who the heck was/is Burl Ives? How'd he manage to get top billing?

Was Hermie supposed to be based on Liberache?

Was the Charlie in the Box suposed to be Ray Bolger (scarecrow from "Oz") or maybe he might be based on Joe Besser?

Anybody catch any others?

On a side note: I think Santa should have combined the misfit toy bird who swam instead of flying with a toy fish who flew instead of swimming, then given them to a dyslexic kid. Sadly, the swimming bird was killed by the homicidal elf before this could happen.

monkeylucifer
12-06-2000, 11:26 AM
Okay, one thing I've felt pretty strongly about for all these years, and nobody seems to have brought it up, is that Santa is depicted as an outright bastard. Here's what I'm talking about:

He is extremely mean and callous to Rudolph's family
Pays no attention to the elf's song and offers only criticism
Is disrespectful and rude to his wife
Only acknowledges Rudolph's abnormality when it serves his needs

So, I've wondered why they chose to portray Santa as a complete Jackass...am I the only one who sees this?

BobT
12-06-2000, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by Inky-


I got that there was a Phil Silvers elf (of the old Sgt. Bilko show, pretty big in it's day). He was the bald elf with the thick, black glasses who was lazing off and eventually as comeuppance gets stuffed in a bag. But who the heck was/is Burl Ives? How'd he manage to get top billing?




Who's Burl Ives? Surely you jest? Burl Ives was a big star in his day, in more ways than one.

Besides being a noted folk singer (although mainly of popular stuff), he also was an actor whose two most famous roles were that of Big Daddy in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof", and
Rufus Hannassey in "The Big Country". He won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for the latter role.

I sentence you to three consecutive hours of Burl Ives singing "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" as punishment.

screech-owl
12-06-2000, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by BobT
I sentence you to three consecutive hours of Burl Ives singing "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" as punishment.

Followed by "Lavender's Blue (Dilly Dilly)" and "Little White Duck".

KSO
12-06-2000, 12:43 PM
Santa is a total jackass, as are all the authority figures, esp. Donner. Consider all that macho crap about not letting Rudolph join in any reindeer games because he's "different," along with the glorification of silver and gold as well as fame and fortune, not to mention the already discussed toy homicide and it's all quite disturbing.

manhattan
12-06-2000, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by screech-owl
Originally posted by BobT
I sentence you to three consecutive hours of Burl Ives singing "The Big Rock Candy Mountain" as punishment.

Followed by "Lavender's Blue (Dilly Dilly)" and "Little White Duck".

Man. And people say I'm tough.

mobo85
12-06-2000, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Cabbage
Yep, I watched it again tonight for the first time in many years. The bird murder scene was quite cruel. There's the elf, equipping each toy with its own personal umbrella to guide it safely down to earth, until he comes to the bird. The elf even pulls out an umbrella, opens it, holding bird in one hand, umbrella in the other, as if to give one final taunt. The viewer is expecting the elf to hand over the umbrella at any moment, when suddenly, with no change of expression and showing no remorse, the elf simply tosses the bird over the sled, with complete and utter disregard for any sanctity of life.

Oh, the humanity.

The elf was not on the Island of Misfit Toys, so the elf would probably not know.

Or maybe the producers themselves forgot. The original airing in 1964 (or 1064, if you believe the opening credits) did not have the end credits we see today. After a letter-writing campaign, they were added the next year. Unfortunately, a gag regarding what Yukon Cornelius was really looking for-peppermint-had to be removed to make room for the new ending.

Also, the original airing had animated ads for the sponsor, General Electric, featuring the singing elves. It was GE's head who did not like "We're a Couple of Misfits," which had them remove it and replace it with "Fame and Fortune" from 1965 (1065?) to 1997.

Freudian Slit
12-06-2000, 06:16 PM
Ignorance of the law doesn't count. Its the elf's own fault for not fulfilling his responsibilities to his job.

Freudian Slit
12-07-2000, 01:41 PM
Yeah Santa is a jerk- how come he didn't realize what an arse the head elf was? Its Santa's job to know the ins and outs of the North Pole...

And yeah it is unfair that they only like Rudolph after they find out he's useful to them. Except for Clarice, Hermie, and Yukon Cornelius, who always liked him. I mean, Mr. Good and Charitable himself, Santa Claus, and Rudolph's old man, were cruel...

ThisYearsGirl
12-07-2000, 05:44 PM
As for the OP, I thought the doll made crying noises instead of laughing.

Duppyraces
12-13-2000, 09:30 AM
In addition to the excellent observations everyone else has made, what about the following things my roomie and I noticed?

-How come they have Reindeer practice to train new reindeer to pull the sleigh, but it's always the same reindeer pulling every year? What's the point?

-If Rudolph could fly so well (like he did at the end of the show), how come he didn't just fly back to Christmas Town instead of walking?

-King Moonracer told Rudolph, Hermey and Yukon Cornelius that he circled the globe every night in search of misfit toys; yet he asked them to tell Santa about the Island of Misfit Toys. Why didn't he just fly to tell Santa himself?

-When Sam the Snowman sings "Silver and Gold", he's playing a banjo, yet the only instruments heard are a piano and a horn. Hmmmmm.

-Why does everyone call Donder, Donner? It's Donder and Blitzen....Thunder and Lightning. Duh!

-How come the Bumble didn't just use his hands and feet to crush all of the good guys after his teeth were pulled out?

-Yukon has a large gun in his belt. Why didn't he just shoot the Bumble?

-At the beginning of the show Sam the Snowman says "You know Dasher and Dancer" etc. and then, "what, you've never heard of Rudolph?" but then he says that Rudolph is the most famous Reindeer of all. So, if you've heard of the other reindeer, you should've heard of Rudolph because he's the most famous reindeer of all!

Munch
12-13-2000, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Hail Ants
and when Mrs. Clause starts shouting, "eat Santa, eat!"

Sorry, have to do this:

Its "eat, Papa, eat".

I'm done now.

Guy Propski
12-13-2000, 10:16 AM
Okay, back to our regularly scheduled question.

The unfortunate fact is that the Doll's problem/fault was never discussed. In fact,she' guilty by association--she's on the Island of Misfit Toys, therefore she's a misfit.

The only misfit toys that were described were the Charlie in the box, the bird that swam instead of flying, a train with square wheels, a squirt gun that shot jelly instead of water, a boat that couldn't float, a cowboy riding an ostrich, and an elephant with spots.

According to the script, the misfits elf's name was HERMIE. This also suggests another reason why he's a misfit--he's the only Jewish elf.

You know, Christmas is becoming the most enigmatic of all holidays, what with unanswered questions about Scrooge's job, the cause of the Star of Bethlehem, the meaning of the 12 Days of Christmas, and all the questions raised about that twisted TV special, "Rudolph."

Beruang
12-13-2000, 10:52 AM
Actually, I've always liked this show [b]because[b/] Santa is portrayed as petty, ignorant, and flawed -- in other words, a real human, and not some sickly sweet saint.

As for other contemporary references, the Chief Elf quotes Charlie Brown ("Good grief!") and Lawrence Welk ("Ah one-a and a two-a").

Of course, the entire show is a thinly veiled reference to the Civil Rights movement...

Bean Counter
12-13-2000, 11:01 AM
Does anyone else think the misfit toys have a good case for discrimination against Santa Claus?

I mean, in other scenarios involving Mr. S. Claus and his Christmas Eve flight, it has him landing on or near the house, doing the chimney and placing the toys in stockings, under trees, etc.

But then you get to the Misfit Toys and things change! They are given an unbrella, a boot on the rump and they are gone! The fat bastard does not even slow the sleigh down. He probably learn that from his Mafioso connections. Not to mention the fact that numerous people have ON TAPE one of his henchmen chucking that poor, flightless bird over the sleigh to plumet to an early, gruesome death. Does anyone else smell organized crime here?!?

That elf-lover should be doing hard time in Marion.

AnsaMan
12-13-2000, 11:12 AM
Hey its like this:

If you don't see the bird hit,
You must acquit!

AnsaMan
12-13-2000, 11:20 AM
I made up a song parody when very young for
the Elves song:

We are Santa's Elves
We are Santa's Elves
Burning, Raping, Looting, and Maiming
We are Santa's Elves!

Ok, I had a violent childhood!

And then there was Rudolph the Brown-Nosed
Reindeer.

"Ho..ho..ho"
"The Federal Aviation Administration
has pulled my airworthiness certificate
because I lack a proper strobe device
for use in low visibility...I need your
help Rudolph!"

flodnak
12-13-2000, 11:35 AM
The doll's problem (besides the fact that she's running around in the snow wearing a sundress) is her hair. Look at her! Some eediot sewed the ribbons at the bottom of her pigtails instead of the top! Poor thing looks like a freak. Her hair splits into two parts for no apparent reason.

As for why Yukon doesn't shoot the Bumble: a pistol of that caliber would probably only make him mad....

Dangerosa
12-13-2000, 12:38 PM
Does Santa's wife strike anyone else as a Yenta? I never really imagined that the icon for the major Christian holiday would have a Jewish wife.

Of course she could be an East Coaster of other Mediterrian extraction and I shouldn't sterotype.

Duppyraces
12-13-2000, 01:36 PM
Hmmm...now that I think of it, isn't Rudolph's friend, Fireball, the only reindeer with hair on his head? To make matters worse, I think it was bright yellow hair! Why didn't the other reindeer tease HIM? When Fireball freaked out at Rudolph's nose, Rudolph shoulda let him have it about his stupid bleached hair.

Even if some of the other reindeer have hair, I don't think a red nose is any sillier. I'll have to watch it again to make sure.

Guy Propski
12-13-2000, 03:04 PM
Re: Fireball's reaction to Rudolph's nose. Okay, so it's a bit unusual to see someone's nose light up. That doesn't explain Fireball's reaction, who acts as if Rudolph's face just peeled off and the skull burst into flames. Was he dropping acid or something?

As to Santa having "human foilables", baloney! This is obviously an old, disgruntled Santa, burned out by years of reading whiny letters from Sally Brown and Lucy van Pelt. Nagged to death by a yenta of a wife, he sublimates his rage by ruling his minions with an iron fist, and ejects anyone who disagrees with his idea of perfection. Only when his life is at risk (it's too foggy to fly) does he stoop to asking for the mutant reindeer's help. And now, thanks to the misfit toys, he can get revenge on the screaming pre-pubers, giving them defective toys instead of what they ask for. That's why he's so happy at the end--"Screw you, kids! Don't try to stand out!"

Bitter? Oh, just a tad.

WIGGUM
12-13-2000, 03:29 PM
Because Rudolph's ailment is ten times freakier than Firball's. I mean come on, a thatch of hair versus a nose that lights up. I've already let it be known what I think of that mutant, Rudolph here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=25547

palad
12-13-2000, 05:58 PM
Re: Donner vs. Donder

Check out the article on this at http://www.snopes2.com/holidays/xmas/donner.htm

It explains the whole sordid mess.

Dinsdale
12-13-2000, 07:55 PM
Kids had this on when I got home. After I popped the frozen zas in the oven (abomination my a$$!) I went downstairs to see the end.

No question but the elf shoves the bird with his right arm. My kids weren't too worried, tho. The unanimously immediately responded, just because he (they knew it's gender as well) can't fly, doesn't mean he can't glide.

They also weren't too worried about the doll's psychological problems. Agreed her misfit status had something to do with her crying all the time.

They also thought a jelly gun would be neat.

Just wanted to feed you the fruit of my research!

Nacho4Sara
12-13-2000, 08:04 PM
Sorry to catch on late, but the name of the dentist elf is indeed Hermie. You can imagine my delight, when, at the tender age of eight, my older cousin Roy explained to me that "Hermies" have both boy and girl parts, thus rendering me incapable of truly enjoying a childhood classic until I figured out what boy and girl "parts" are.

Also, the Misfit doll was a misfit because she was always sad - chique was right about that one. She was my favorite - I had her doll. Psychological questions nonwithstanding, she as also really weird looking. I'm sure all the normal little girls teased her until she sought refuge with the other freaks.

Damn kids. No wonder I loved that doll so much.

One last comment: The elf totally pushed him! I specifically recall asking my mom if the bird learned to fly, or did the elf push him. She told me that the elf taught him to fly, or some parental bullshit like that.

I have the movie on tape, and I used to watch it year-round. Much better than any Christmas tripe that Disney pushed out.

Don't even get me started on "A Christmas Story." I have so many unanswered questions about that movie.

Marvel
12-13-2000, 10:44 PM
DUDE!

Your sinister MST3King of "Rudolph" (see page one of this thread, folks) had me laughing out loud IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS LIBRARY! Do you know how hard it is to stiffle "I'm-reeady-to-cry" laughter?!?!!

And other folks have me choking back my chuckles too - DAMN IT ALL!

Must Leave Library,
Patty

Chronolicht
12-14-2000, 03:01 AM
Misfit dusted the bird. She's got BPD, a real tweaker. She needed 500 milligrams Cogentin PRN.

denalione
12-14-2000, 08:57 AM
Y'all are missing the entire point. The story is about man's (in this case reindeer's and elf's) struggle against a discriminatory and oppressive society.

What kind of story would it be if Donner had encouraged his fawn and fought for his right to be included, and if Santa had immediately seen the intrinsic usefulness of Rudolph's unique feature?

If this were produced today, NPSS (North Pole Social Services) would have cited Donner for child neglect and Rudolph would have been removed from a loving but somewhat socially backwards home and been placed in foster care. He would be used as the poster fawn for the lefts fight for universal health care because "Rudolph has just as much right to have his nose surgically corrected as privileged reindeer do." Because his nose would no longer shine Santa would not have been able to deliver toys that Christmas.

What if Santa had encouraged Hermie to pursue his dentistry interest?

He would have done undergrad work at Michigan and been involved in an affirmative action battle because he was possibly admitted due to his elfness and not because of his grades (grades which are probably not relevant since his only education is toy making)

And the misfit toys would still be on the island, lonely and separated from the rest of society.

On the good side - there would be one less case of ornithoside and fewer traumatized children in the world.

Scupper
12-14-2000, 04:59 PM
Watched this for the first time in years recently. Especially keen on seeing this supposed avicide.

All I can say is all of you anti-elfites are making me sick with your baseless accusations. You can see, if you do a frame-by-frame analysis of the scene, that the toy bird was preparing to attack the poor elf, no doubt due to psychological imbalance stemming from it's mistreatment as a misfit toy.

This mitigating factor can lead to only one interpretation of the actions of the accused Santa's helper:



Elf Defense.

Anon99
12-14-2000, 05:32 PM
It's not only the characters, the entire theme of "Rudolph" is thoroughly objectionable!

The song (on which the TV special is based) makes it clear: "All of the other reindeer / Used to laugh and call him names / They never let poor Rudolph / Join in any reindeer games! / Then one foggy Christmas Eve / Santa came to say. / Rudolph with your nose so bright / Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? / Then all the reindeer loved him etc. etc.

When my wife, who is from Europe, first heard this song, she was appalled. "This is a Christmas song?! What kind of values does this teach to children? Sure, the other reindeer "love" him now that he is a successful big shot. The other reindeer are a bunch of brown-noseing hypocrits!"

After due consideration, I am convinced she is correct. The entire premise of the Rudolph story speaks volumes about twisted, middle-class post-war notions of morality.

BTW, this is one of the best threads I have ever read. I am amazed at the amount of actual scholarship and analysis that has gone into this debate. Someone really ought to hold annual awards for best on-line discussion. How about the "Cecils?"

DAVEW0071
12-14-2000, 05:57 PM
Scupper, your analysis of the film is marred by only one omission: "Back and to the left. Back and to the left."

One other question re: Rudolph's condition. Is it possible his mother took Thalidomyde?

Freudian Slit
12-14-2000, 08:11 PM
What's Thalidomyde? I think she could have been on Valium. Donner? On steroids, his own testosterone, or a male ego trip. I mean come on..."NO, this is MAN'S work." Gheesh. Female reindeer like this stuff? Rudolph was pretty cute looking when he was older though.

Duppyraces
12-14-2000, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Zoggie
Female reindeer like this stuff? Rudolph was pretty cute looking when he was older though.

Yeah, I'll agree with you there. And remember, to illustrate that he was older, they showed a long, gratuitous shot of his arse while he was bent over taking a drink. This is a kid's show? Sex. Murder. The "true" character of Santa and crew. And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt. This plot is as thick as peanut butter! "You eat what you like, and I'll eat what I like."

NYAAHHHH!!

poohpah chalupa
12-14-2000, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Duppyraces
...And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt...
::falls off chair, laughing::
"oww!"



::rubbing head:: "Welcome to the boards, Duppy!"


...I think...
:)

Gyrate
12-15-2000, 04:42 AM
Another thing they don't tell you is that Hermie eventually flunked out of dental school and ended up in a string of low-paying jobs before landing a prominent role in a series of Altoids banner ads...

jr8

Annie-Xmas
12-15-2000, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Anon99

BTW, this is one of the best threads I have ever read. I am amazed at the amount of actual scholarship and analysis that has gone into this debate. Someone really ought to hold annual awards for best on-line discussion. How about the "Cecils?"



I had to nominate this one for Threadspotting. I was totally amazed that a simple question about a classic holiday TV special could degenerate into a discussion about murderous elves committing orthocide, dysfunction toys, a gay elf masquerading as a dentist, one bad ass Santa, etc., etc. You Dopers can corrupt anything.

buffalo-boy
12-15-2000, 09:27 AM
You know, reading these has got me thinking... If Santa's the originator of all toys, didn't HE make the
misfits in the first place?!?! Well, maybe the elves made them, but he's still management and ultimately
responsible for production AND customer satisfaction. PLUS, why is he dumping the shoddy toys
BACK onto the market!?!!? Weren't they rejected by consumers?

mobo85
12-15-2000, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Duppyraces
Originally posted by Zoggie
Female reindeer like this stuff? Rudolph was pretty cute looking when he was older though.

Yeah, I'll agree with you there. And remember, to illustrate that he was older, they showed a long, gratuitous shot of his arse while he was bent over taking a drink. This is a kid's show? Sex. Murder. The "true" character of Santa and crew. And what was up with Yukon constantly licking his pike. Silver and Gold my butt. This plot is as thick as peanut butter! "You eat what you like, and I'll eat what I like."

NYAAHHHH!!





Yukon was looking for PEPPERMINT!

jsc1953
12-15-2000, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Inky-
I watched it last night as well and just realized that there were a bunch of really out of date references in it, kind of like those old Bugs Bunny cartoons from WWII or those Woody Woodpecker cartoons where he's stealing ration books.

I got that there was a Phil Silvers elf (of the old Sgt. Bilko show, pretty big in it's day). He was the bald elf with the thick, black glasses who was lazing off and eventually as comeuppance gets stuffed in a bag. But who the heck was/is Burl Ives? How'd he manage to get top billing?



Tsk, youth.

I'm too lazy to provide an IMDB link, but Burl Ives was pretty big potatoes back in the day (50's). Had a decent career as a folk singer and actor; although he's most associated with a warm and folksy demeanor, he's probably best known for his portrayal of Big Daddy in the film version of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (with Liz Taylor & Paul Newman).

Had a short-lived sitcom, too. Anybody else remember "O.K. Crackerby" ?

Freudian Slit
12-15-2000, 06:56 PM
And why the hell was the Bumble so zealous to join in with the Christmas spirit all of a sudden?

And WHY did Mrs. Claus say the children would be so disapoint to see a "skinny Santa"? Hello! The kids are going to be asleep when Santa comes through the chimney. Sorry...but that bothered me.

Who was Santa going to foist the misfit toys onto?

Why was Anon banned? He seems to have only one post here- what was so offensive about it? Please don't kill me for asking...

Duppyraces
12-18-2000, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Zoggie

And WHY did Mrs. Claus say the children would be so disapoint to see a "skinny Santa"? Hello! The kids are going to be asleep when Santa comes through the chimney. Sorry...but that bothered me.


EXCELLENT point! And I thought we'd exhausted all the major flaws! Gives me hope.

Another thing I noticed is that Yukon says TWICE early on that a Bumble's ONLY weakness is water. What about his teeth? I mean, remove them and you're looking at a mighty humble bumble. I guess Yukon must have meant tooth-enabled Bumble weakness.

Speaking of which, I don't care if you take Hannibal Lecter's teeth out; he's not decorating my Christmas tree.

All in all, my favorite lesson of Rudolph is that I no longer feel alone. I've learned a valuable lesson from Santa in that I'm not the only one who can go from that skinny to that fat in only a few weeks.

Spoke
12-18-2000, 12:13 PM
Please remind me never to select any of you dopers for a murder jury!

Where is the evidence that the elf was aware of the bird's "disability"? Isn't it possible that the elf just made the reasonable (if mistaken) assumption that the bird could fly?

If the elf didn't know
You must let him go!

If anyone's culpable here, it's Rudolph. He certainly knew the bird couldn't fly. Why didn't he tell the elf? A clear-cut case of negligence, I say. I hope Rudolph's has insurance, 'cause once he gets paroled from doing time for manslaughter (er, birdslaughter), he's looking at a major lawsuit. Santa better hope his premiums are paid, too, 'cause he has some vicarious liability as Rudolph's employer.

Lyllyan
12-18-2000, 12:58 PM
The doll was a misfit because she was no longer loved. King Moonracer flys all over the world every night and brings back toys that no little girl or boy loves. Charlie-in-the-box said it, don't you remember? And yes, Santa was mean. And I hate that part where Santa asks Rudolph to pull his sleigh and Rudolph says in that smarmy, brown nose voce "It would be an honor Sir!" I HATE that!

Spoke
12-18-2000, 01:49 PM
Oh yeah, and was it my imagination, or did the Abominable Snowman catch an antler to the 'nads? He seemed to have an especially pained expression on his face when Rudolph gave him a shot to the nether regions.

Sunshine
12-18-2000, 03:49 PM
Back to the OP...

The doll was misfit because she cried ice cubes instead of tears. (Really!)

As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.

DRY
12-18-2000, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Sunshine
As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.
[Joe Pesci voice]
"A triangulated cross-fire. That's the key!"

"A diversionary shot gets the Secret Service leaning the other way. Then, the kill shot! The key is, one man (elf?) has to be sacrificed."
[Joe Pesci voice]

Great thread, but what is it still doing in General Questions?

mobo85
12-19-2000, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Sunshine
Back to the OP...

The doll was misfit because she cried ice cubes instead of tears. (Really!)

As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf.

Based on the Laws of Cartoon Physics, anyone in cold weather will cry ice cubes. Also, they'll turn into one if they put their entire body in a lake in cold weather.

The Man Who
12-19-2000, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by Guy Propski
According to the script, the misfits elf's name was HERMIE. This also suggests another reason why he's a misfit--he's the only Jewish elf.


Just saw The Santa Clause for the first time this weekend, and a LOT of the elves seemed to be Jewish in that one, especially the head elf Bernard (played by David Krumholtz).

It gave me pause.

Cordially,

Myron M. Meyer
The Man Who

screech-owl
12-20-2000, 06:53 AM
I watched the tape last night.
My god.
It WAS an owl.

"Those dirty, rotten, stinking b@stards!"

::leaves to light a candle in memory of a dear-departed cousin::

Freudian Slit
12-21-2000, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by screech-owl
I watched the tape last night.
My god.
It WAS an owl.

"Those dirty, rotten, stinking b@stards!"

::leaves to light a candle in memory of a dear-departed cousin::

Screech...my heart goes out to you. :(

Jester and i were having this really weird discussion in which we talked about the psychological significance of Rudolph and of Santa Claus and Mrs. Claus in general...

Freudian Slit
01-28-2001, 07:01 PM
Hey i didn't realize this thread went into threadspotting. Wow cool beans!!!! I gotta revive it. Its my duty...otherwise I'll be known as the person who killed Rudolph....'s thread, that is.

buffalo-boy
01-29-2001, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by spoke-
Please remind me never to select any of you dopers for a murder jury!

Where is the evidence that the elf was aware of the bird's "disability"? Isn't it possible that the elf just made the reasonable (if mistaken) assumption that the bird could fly?

If the elf didn't know
You must let him go!



Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

If the elf was not wise,
He still has to fry!

Gyrate
01-31-2001, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by Dangerosa
Does Santa's wife strike anyone else as a Yenta? I never really imagined that the icon for the major Christian holiday would have a Jewish wife.
Why not? The other icon for the same major Christian holiday had a Jewish mother (and was, of course, Jewish himself).

flodnak
12-03-2001, 04:44 AM
Time to bump this one up, I think...

"The doll's problem is psychological" sounds like a cop-out to me. Sounds like they forgot what her problem was, so they decided it must be something invisible. Hah! It's those freakish pigtails, I'm tellin' ya! :eek:

Drum God
12-03-2001, 01:42 PM
But doesn't the whole idea of the Rudolph story seem offensive? I mean, let's look at the facts, here:

1) Rudy is a bit different than the others in his peer group..

2) Rudy is taunted by his peers (with at least tacit approval from the adults)

3) Even Santa gets in a jab at poor ol' Rudy.

4) His only friend is a girl whom no one pays much attention to because she's a girl.

5) Suddenly, Santa and Co. develop an unexpected need for Rudy's gifts -- the very trait that made him so offensive to everyone.

6) Since Rudy can now do something FOR the other reindeer that NO ONE ELSE can do, everyone wants to be his friend. No one would give him the time o' day earlier, but now that they WANT something, everyone has to act nice.

Were I Rudolph, I would be sorely tempted to tell Santa what he could do with his sled. Let's just say it would be dark there, too.

It has always seemed to me that this story is about selfishness and ass-kissing. The head elf is careful to kiss-up whenever Santa is around, that acts like a tyrant when he leaves. Hermey is made to feel worthless because his interests and talents lie in dentistry rather than carpentry. Rudolph is similarly ostracized because he is a bit different. This treatment is even condoned by those in authority.

Suddenly everything changes when the authorities WANT something from these "misfits". When Hermey is needed to cure the snow montster of his dental problems, everyone loves him. When Rudolph's "nose so bright" is needed to guide the sleigh, everyone shouts with glee.

What a load of hooey.

MrVisible
12-03-2001, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Sunshine
As to the owlicide...due to the speed and trajectory at which the owl left the sleigh, the only possible theory is that there was a second elf. [/B]

If you look closely at the frame-by-frame, you can see the elf in question sporting an unmistakeable "what was that smell" look throughout the scene. Which leads me to my theory...

The second elf was behind the gassy gnoll.

Dale The Bold
12-03-2001, 05:46 PM
Hasn't anyone else felt that the kids may not be happy with "misfit" toys? I keep picturing a kid ripping open a present and saying "Sweet Holy Crap! This train has square wheels! Santa must hate me, what have I done wrong?!"

manhattan
12-03-2001, 05:48 PM
Ah, it's that time of year again.

But now, we have a better forum for this one. Off to Cafe Society.

NDP
12-14-2002, 12:49 AM
Bumping up for discussion in 2002.

Bullwinkle
12-14-2002, 02:03 AM
I just have to raise one point which hasn't been discussed yet. Even as a child watching it for the first time, I was disturbed by the fate of the Abominable Snowman.
What sort of message is this sending to our children? "Hey, kids, if there's a big, scary bully at your school, just push him off a cliff and then yank all of his teeth out with a pair of pliers! Then he will be nice to you and put the star on your Christmas tree."
Good Lord, what sort of conflict resolution is this? Why couldn't Abominable have simply had an impacted wisdom tooth which was making him cranky? Then Herb/mie could have done an exam while he was unconscious and extracted it. This would have demonstrated the elf's skill as a dentist and given us an 'Androcles and the Lion' subplot. Instead, the elf just goes nuts with the pliers and maims Abominable for life; something any sociopathic auto mechanic could have done.
I'll just stick with A Charlie Brown Christmas, thank you. Plus, the music's a lot better.

mobo85
12-14-2002, 10:09 AM
Looking at a comment I made a couple years ago, I actually made an error in pinpointing when this special first aired.

The opening credits of the program read, in part, "©Videocraft Int'l Inc. MCLXIV."

I am unsure of the major importance of this, but it obviously means, among other things, that B. Icle Ivanhoe was semi-immortal (it also explains his birth name), and that the Santa Claus legend has existed longer than we ever expected to.

Or it could be a typo. I'm not sure.

Kat
12-14-2002, 08:47 PM
It could just be me, but I think it'd be cool to have a Cowboy Riding an Ostrich toy.

CaptMurdock
12-14-2002, 10:45 PM
I always thought that the dolls problem was something uder her dress. Perhaps she only wishes she was a doll and was really g.I joe.

Laughing Lagomorph
12-14-2002, 11:13 PM
In addition to its other problems, I've always had trouble reconciling the Santa and Mrs. Claus characters as depicted here with the backstory we have on them from Rankin/Bass' Santa Claus is Coming to Town. I mean, is it the same Universe, or not? Mrs. Claus isn't Jewish in that one, and Santa isn't a jerk, although he is Mickey Rooney.

By the way, I think the extra UV light allowed in by the thinning ozone layer over the North Pole casued both Rudolph's (nose) and Fireball's (hair) mutations.

Skid Row
12-15-2002, 07:39 AM
Wasn't Frauline Klaus a dead ringer for Mrs. "Blame Canada" Cartman? Perhaps the unhappy marriage in this 938 year old children's classic gave her an anti-cold-weather-northen-nation bias.

"Should we blame the images on TV....."

Laughing Lagomorph
12-16-2002, 06:48 AM
Originally posted by Sunshine
Back to the OP...

The doll was misfit because she cried ice cubes instead of tears. (Really!)
...[/i] [/B]

I think you are onto something here.

I have watched this tape about 20 times in the last two weeks (the Little Lagomorph is at that age). I have found at least three instances of other characters crying: Rudolph outside his cave when he is a young one, Charlie-in-the-Box when they first get to the Island, and Rudolph's girlfriend in the Bumble's cave. Notwithstanding mobo85's penetrating analysis of the usual laws of cartoon physics, there are no ice cubes visible in any of the other three cases, but the doll definitely cries ice cubes. The caveat is it might have been colder then...she was crying at night. It might have been considerably warmer in the Bumble's cave, for instance, although it didn't look that cozy.

a35362
12-16-2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Nacho4Sara
One last comment: The elf totally pushed him! I specifically recall asking my mom if the bird learned to fly, or did the elf push him. She told me that the elf taught him to fly....

I specifically watched this year to confirm this...it's true!! To be fair, the elf hesitates, apparently thinking the bird must be able to fly (or at least glide?). Maybe he wasn't briefed on the toy's special needs...?

a35362
12-17-2002, 01:09 AM
James Lileks's Bleat for Dec. 17th (http://www.lileks.com/bleats/index.html) discusses the show and the Misfit Toys. Either he's lurking or "great minds think alike."

"Let's be independent, together!"

(Does anybody know what he's hinting at at the end of the column?)

kingpengvin
12-18-2002, 12:39 PM
I have to say that the fact that a horrifying incident of teeth being yanked out by plyers in a short space of time was handled in such a lighthearted manner.

What kind of Dentist was Hermie going to be.

Hermie: "Is it Safe?"

BUMBLE: AAAIIGH!!!

Hermie: Is it Safe?

Dewey Cheatem Undhow
12-19-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Kat
It could just be me, but I think it'd be cool to have a Cowboy Riding an Ostrich toy. Or a squirt gun that squirted jelly! Hells bells, man, that's an improvement! Sure, you can torture your little sister by squirting her with water, but that cleans up pretty easily. But to squirt her with jelly -- have it seriously fuck up her hair, make it all sticky and hard to brush -- well, that would be perfect. The ultimate torture.

I would have loved a jelly gun when I was a little kid.

Annie-Xmas
12-01-2003, 08:29 AM
Bumping this thread is the Great Straight Dope Holiday Tradition.

Baker
12-01-2003, 09:04 AM
When is it going to be broadcast this year? Believe it or not, I haven't seen any ads for it.

Biotop
12-01-2003, 09:04 AM
Maybe this year someone can answer this question:

Where were Rudolph's parents and Clarice for the several "months" they were out looking for Rudolph?

As you remember, Rudolph returns home to the Reindeer Cave(?) and finds it empty. A forlorn Santa says that "they've been gone for months, out looking for you!"

Granted, they ended up in the Abominable's rather sparse cave, but it doesn't seem possible that the monster could have been toying with them for months.

Also, what happened to the "storm of the century" when they're out delivering the toys? Seems I recall moonlight during Santa's big "Me-e-e-rr-eee Christmas" finale.

Annie-Xmas
12-01-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Baker
When is it going to be broadcast this year? Believe it or not, I haven't seen any ads for it.

Monday December 8th at 8:00 EST on ABC-TV.

mobo85
12-01-2003, 09:36 AM
Actually, Tuesday December 9th on CBS-TV, I believe.

Lux Interior
12-01-2003, 01:34 PM
I always thought that the dolls problem was something uder her dress. Perhaps she only wishes she was a doll and was really g.I joe.


If she really was a GI Joe, then shw wouldn't have anything under her dress.

Unless GI Joes were antomically correct back in the 60s (or 00s).

Gyrate
12-21-2003, 06:30 AM
Another year, another bump.

Having just watched it on the BBC, I have to say that the show gets more and more disturbing every time I see it.

Hermie does indeed seem to deserve his name. Note that every other male elf is completely bald (excluding facial hair), whereas all the female elves have blonde hair. Hermie is the only male elf with blonde hair; therefore, Hermie displays both male and female elven characteristics. Hence, "Hermie".

And an inadvertent MST3K moment: when Rudolph sneaks away from his friends on the Island of Misfit Toys, he leaves the door open.

<Spouse>: Hey! Close the door!
<Me>: Yeah! Were you born in a barn?

<beat>

<raucous laughter>

NoGoodNamesLeft
12-21-2003, 07:18 AM
WoW! I had no idea this thread was started 2 years ago when I started reading it!

And in those 2 years nobody has brought up my biggest problem. It's on the Island of Misfit Toys. Ok, so you have:

-Dolly: We're not sure, probably an early interpretation of clinical depression (it would be interesting to find out if any of the original writers had any relatives with depression, hence including it int he show).

-The Train: Square wheels.

-The Elephant: Polks-Dotted.

-The Cowboy / Ostrich.

It's the last 2 that truly bothered the hell out of me.

-The squirt-gun: He shoots jelly. Huh? How 'bout you stop filling him with jelly in the first place! I mean, as a gun he seems quite functional, except the stupid kid he was given to keeps filling him with jelly!

-The Charlie in the box: This one boggles the mind! Just give him a new bloody name for christsake!

Hell, even the train can be fixed easily enough! Sqaure wheels can become circles pretty darn easily. You mean to tell me nobody thought of grinding off the corners??

The Misfit Toys & citizens of the kingdom of Moonracer certainly aren't an industrious folk!

Weirddave
12-22-2003, 02:08 PM
I still can't believe nobody ever posted a link (http://www.brunching.com/rudolphlost.html) to the late, great Brunching Shuttlecocks take on the topic at hand.

porcupine
12-22-2003, 02:36 PM
When I was at my friends' Christmas party earlier in the month, we concluded that Mrs. Claus must have had breast reduction. She had big giant hooters in "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," but not so in "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer."

Eats_Crayons
12-22-2003, 03:22 PM
Dear Og! Did anyone else get seriously rattled by seeing poohpah's name as the thread-starter?

Gave me quite a start! Took me a sec to realize it was an old thread.

paperbackwriter
12-22-2003, 04:23 PM
I had the same WTF? moment when I saw it in the forum list. I think poohpah'd have liked us remembering him attached to a thread like this.

Eats_Crayons
12-22-2003, 06:18 PM
I agree, it's kinda nice to be immortalized in a thread that returns once a year. Still, I did a doubletake when I saw it. Startled me a bit.

*raises a glass of egg nog"

Here's to Poohpah!

And as for the thread: I've always loved the Bumble. Pity he wasn't accepted into the community until they maimed him... Destined for a life of apple sauce.

Nanook
12-22-2003, 07:10 PM
Mommy, I've got an itchy pussy.

Sternvogel
12-23-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Cabbage
I ask you--Has an ostrish ever been known to soar among the clouds? Has an emu ever flapped from treetop to treetop, sailing through the wind? I think not; a bird, at once without flight, shall always be without flight.

Forget about it, Cabbage. It's Christmas Town.

NoGoodNamesLeft
12-23-2003, 11:00 AM
Who is Poohpah and where is he now?

paperbackwriter
12-23-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by NoGoodNamesLeft
Who is Poohpah and where is he now?

To avoid hijacking his thread, see here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146526) and here (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147170&highlight=poohpah+chalupa).

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled silliness, already in progress.

Esprix
12-31-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Gyrate

Note that every other male elf is completely bald (excluding facial hair), whereas all the female elves have blonde hair. Hermie is the only male elf with blonde hair...

Also note that all the elves have large, distinctively pointed ears - but Hermie's are perfectly normal! :eek:

Methinks Hermie was never an elf in the first place...

Esprix, seeing conspiracies, but only because Gingerofthenorth thinks I look like Hermie

Annie-Xmas
11-26-2004, 08:05 AM
Making the SDMB Holiday Traditional Bump.

Ken Jennings of Jepardy fame remarked that he's gotten letters from people saying he looks like Hermie.

jayjay
11-26-2004, 08:25 AM
Awww...it's like bringing out that family heirloom star to put on top of the tree!

Thanks, Annie! :D

FisherQueen
11-26-2004, 08:52 AM
Of course Santa and the elves are Jewish. Who else is going to be willing to work that hard all night on Christmas Eve?

jayjay
11-26-2004, 08:56 AM
Of course Santa and the elves are Jewish. Who else is going to be willing to work that hard all night on Christmas Eve?

But what happens when Christmas falls on a Saturday?!

SkipMagic
11-26-2004, 09:12 AM
But what happens when Christmas falls on a Saturday?!
FedEx.

bobkitty
11-26-2004, 10:00 AM
FedEx.

Duh.. Pagans. They're much cheaper.

jsgoddess
11-26-2004, 02:39 PM
I thought the doll said at one point that her "flaw" was that she cried real tears.

Humph. I wonder what I'm thinking of.

voguevixen
11-26-2004, 06:40 PM
Hallmark has "Rudolph" partyware this season. The dessert plates have Hermie on them - WOOT!

Now if only they'd have Heatmiser and Snowmiser. *sigh*

mobo85
11-26-2004, 11:22 PM
Making the SDMB Holiday Traditional Bump.

Ken Jennings of Jepardy fame remarked that he's gotten letters from people saying he looks like Hermie.

And another useless fact from TV Guide: the voices of Rudolph and Hermey are still alive, and they live in the same retirement home in Toronto and see each other often.

Proudly commemorating the 40th anniversary of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer...
"Corrupting Dopers' minds since 1964"

C K Dexter Haven
11-27-2004, 08:08 AM
The Moderator speaketh:
Normally, we really frown on resurrecting old threads. We have recently revised polidy for this forum, to be a bit more lenient in this regard, and I'm going to allow this one to ride. It seems to be a "holiday tradition", so I'll let it stand, even though there's not much "new" being presented.

But I wanted to use this opportunity for the general reminder that we don't really like to have old threads bumped up from the depths. Many of the posters who commented before are no longer around and so not able to defend their opinion, and that's kinda not fair. So, we frown on bumping in general, but we'll allow an exception in this case.

Which also means, I suppose, that bumping up this thread will become an annual seasonal tradition. OK, so be it. But please, please, let's not start bumping up half a dozen old threads or I *will* get pissy about it.

Annie-Xmas
11-27-2004, 08:17 AM
Thanks, Dex. Not only is bumping this thread a SDMB Holiday Tradition, it's a great annual tribute to thread starter poohpah chaulpa.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
11-27-2004, 09:51 AM
Where is the evidence that the elf was aware of the bird's "disability"? Isn't it possible that the elf just made the reasonable (if mistaken) assumption that the bird could fly?

If the elf didn't know
You must let him go!
"As God is my witness, I thought toy birds could fly!"

astorian
11-27-2004, 10:03 AM
A few years back, the Bob & Tom radio show had a hilarious "Behind the Scenes" documentary about "Rudolph." Yukon Cornelius was "outed" as a homoexual by Charlie the jack-in-the box.

But the best (and saddest) segment was about poor CLarice. TYpecast as a Christmas reindeer, she eventually went the Dana Plato route, becoming a heavy cocaine user and porn star (her most popular titles included "Jingle Balls," "The Little Hummer Boy" and "Santa Claus is Cumming").

Poor Clarice was found dead with a line of (what else?) snow on the table beside her.

tracer
11-27-2004, 12:46 PM
Mrs. Butterworth is supposed to be white.
Then why is her face dark brown? Been spending too much time in the Bahamas?

jayjay
11-27-2004, 09:22 PM
Hallmark has "Rudolph" partyware this season. The dessert plates have Hermie on them - WOOT!

Now if only they'd have Heatmiser and Snowmiser. *sigh*

Just a note for those who love Rankin/Bass...ABC Family is going to be showing the Rankin/Bass Christmas classics all through December!

Here (http://abcfamily.go.com/25days/schedule.html) is the programming schedule for the month, and yes, Heatmiser and Snowmiser are on there. Can't remember exactly which one they were on, though...

flodnak
11-28-2004, 09:55 AM
Heatmiser and Snowmiser are on there. Can't remember exactly which one they were on, though...The Year Without a Santa Claus. Which is otherwise a pretty dumb show, but who cares! It has Heatmiser! And Snowmiser!

And Mrs Santa saying "EAT, PAPA! EAT!"

Dolores Reborn
11-28-2004, 10:53 AM
Then why is her face dark brown? Been spending too much time in the Bahamas?

Her face is clear, like the bottle. There's dark syrup behind it! :)

mobo85
11-28-2004, 06:07 PM
The Year Without a Santa Claus. Which is otherwise a pretty dumb show, but who cares! It has Heatmiser! And Snowmiser!

And Mrs Santa saying "EAT, PAPA! EAT!"

Actually, the latter is from Rudolph. The Rankin-Bassiverse has so many Santas it's kind of hard to keep track of them.

jayjay
11-28-2004, 07:30 PM
So which one had that frost wizard, who couldn't move because he'd frozen himself to the ground. The song went "You put one foot...in front...of the other..."

DrFidelius
11-28-2004, 08:04 PM
That was the one with Mickey Rooney voicing Kris Kringle, and an absolutely hot younger Mrs. Claus...

I seem to recall Fred Astair doing the frame for that one as Santa's postal carrier...

DrFidelius
11-28-2004, 08:06 PM
Short Google, and a website with a bilious green background which made my eyes bleed, give the titile as Santa Claus is Coming to Town, from 1970.

jsgoddess
11-28-2004, 09:41 PM
So which one had that frost wizard, who couldn't move because he'd frozen himself to the ground. The song went "You put one foot...in front...of the other..."

Santa Claus is Coming to Town.

Which I always remember because young Kris Kringle is a dead ringer for my brother-in-law. I like to point at Santa and inform BIL what he'll look like if he doesn't change his ways. :)

Rainbowthief
11-28-2004, 11:09 PM
Just two nights ago my wife mentioned something about Hermey the elf and she slapped me when I told her I didn't know who or what she was talking about (I thought it was a Disney movie character). If I'd taken a guess I would've said Robby, so it's good to see I'm not the only one who didn't know the elf's name.

I'd always referred to him as "the elf who wanted to be a dentist."

vd
12-01-2004, 11:53 AM
It's on tonight on CBS, going against Lost.

Scumpup
12-01-2004, 12:28 PM
For all of you who expressed outrage at Santa's treatment of Rudolph, Rudolph's family, the elves, et. al., don't worry. The old bastard got his comeuppance. (http://www.jerkbox.com/newsstand/slay_ride/)

MovieMogul
12-01-2004, 01:38 PM
That was the one with Mickey Rooney voicing Kris Kringle, and an absolutely hot younger Mrs. Claus...Actually, Year w/o a SC also has the Mickster as Mr. "Klause". And beyond the terrific Miser brothers, there are also some other terrific songs, including the very touching "I Believe in Santa Claus" :sniff:

Steve MB
12-01-2004, 01:53 PM
The opening credits of the program read, in part, "©Videocraft Int'l Inc. MCLXIV."
Perhaps this serves as an explanation for the cynical and exploitive attitude of Santa and other characters -- they should be understood as creatures of their times, who failed to rise above their twelfth-century upbringing.

BMalion
12-01-2004, 02:43 PM
And another thing, wasn't that Herbie the Elf that got killed at Helm's Deep?


Merry Kwanzamasnnaka!

Sean Factotum
12-02-2004, 07:29 AM
Who did Santa shoot? When he left Elf Practice, he was pretty perturbed. He walked off camera, and you hear a gunshot (or a slamming door.) I know it wasn't the Mel Cooley elf, nor Hermie, but who was it?

And has anyone else counted the reindeer pulling the sled? Seven, counting Rudolph. C'mon, one of the easiest things to get right, and they screwed it up.

Honey
12-02-2004, 08:10 AM
Does anybody else see the resemblance between The elf who wanted to be a dentist and Ken Jennings?

BMalion
12-02-2004, 08:34 AM
But then you get to the Misfit Toys and things change! They are given an unbrella, a boot on the rump and they are gone! The fat bastard does not even slow the sleigh down. He probably learn that from his Mafioso connections. Not to mention the fact that numerous people have ON TAPE one of his henchmen chucking that poor, flightless bird over the sleigh to plumet to an early, gruesome death. Does anyone else smell organized crime here?!?

That elf-lover should be doing hard time in Marion.


I remember seeing film evidence of his accomplice, SANTA HIMSELF! escaping the scene of the crime on a huge Norelco Razor.

We are through the looking glass.

singular1
12-02-2004, 08:44 AM
Also, the original airing had animated ads for the sponsor, General Electric, featuring the singing elves. It was GE's head who did not like "We're a Couple of Misfits," which had them remove it and replace it with "Fame and Fortune" from 1965 (1065?) to 1997.

What!?!?!?
I was just singing this song to Mr. singular a few weeks and he was really sorry he didn't know it. You mean if I watch it now, I won't hear

"Why am I such a Misfit?
I am not such a nitwit.
You can't fire me, I quit!" ?

Man, it's been a long time since I saw this thing, but I still remember that song. Have they reinstated it?

BMalion
12-02-2004, 09:19 AM
What!?!?!?
I was just singing this song to Mr. singular a few weeks and he was really sorry he didn't know it. You mean if I watch it now, I won't hear

"Why am I such a Misfit?
I am not such a nitwit.
You can't fire me, I quit!" ?

Man, it's been a long time since I saw this thing, but I still remember that song. Have they reinstated it?


I believe that it's still in there, but the reprise was removed. Or my memories are also conflated.

I did not watch it last night but I can hear it now!

Sean Factotum
12-02-2004, 09:24 AM
What!?!?!?
I was just singing this song to Mr. singular a few weeks and he was really sorry he didn't know it. You mean if I watch it now, I won't hear

"Why am I such a Misfit?
I am not such a nitwit.
You can't fire me, I quit!" ?

Man, it's been a long time since I saw this thing, but I still remember that song. Have they reinstated it?
It was in last night's showing. Hermie sung the "I quit" part, but still worked for mean Mr. Suck-up Elf after that - he only left after getting yelled at for putting teeth into dolls.

beagledave
12-02-2004, 09:51 AM
For those who didn't catch it, NPR covered the 40th Anniversary of Rudolph..with some info about the creation

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4193235

interface2x
12-02-2004, 12:09 PM
This may be in the existing nine million posts above that I'm too lazy to search through, but does anyone know why the "elves singing" scene (i.e. Elf Practice) was cut when I was a little kid? It was reinstated in the early 90's (I think) and remains in the show now.

BwanaBob
12-02-2004, 12:24 PM
I hadn't watched this show in years, but bought it on DVD last year for my son.
He has no sense of seasons and I've probably watched the damn thing 25 times in the past year (last showing the night before the CBS airing!)

The DVD is purported to be the 1964 version (with Misfit song). As a bonus feature they also give you the Fame and Fortune song.

Is the sequel any good?

Jeep's Phoenix
12-02-2004, 12:29 PM
My dad says that Rudolph's nose used to have a little GE logo on it. Is he thinking of the original commercials that aired with the program?

mobo85
12-02-2004, 03:20 PM
Thots:

I'm no Rankin-Bassologist, but let me attempt to answer some of the questions that have been put up.

As I later corrected, I was 100 years off in the year Rudolph originally aired as quoted in singular1's post. Although I had originally said it was 1064, I had misremembered the Roman numerals in the copyright notice. Rudolph was actually produced in 1164. (In actuality, this is an oversight, of course. The opening sequence features a copyright notice "©Videocraft Int'l Inc. MCLXIV." They forgot the second "M.")

Rick Goldschmidt, a real Rankin-Bassologist, who was interviewed in the NPR clip beagledave linked to, and is the curator of a Rankin-Bass website (http://www.rankinbass.com), has answered some of these questions, and I'll add my knowledge to what he had to say.

From 1965 (1165?) to 1997, the short number Fame and Fortune replaced We're A Couple of Misfits. A GE executive wasn't fond of Misfits, apparently. Some dopers seem to be confusing the longer number with two short numbers Rudolph and Hermey sing to themselves, asking, "Why am I such a misfit?" (The tune is the same.) These two little numbers have been in the show since it premiered. It's the Misfit reprise, that features Rudolph and Hermey romping in the snow and Hermey punching a snowman made to look like his boss, that hadn't been seen again until 1998. According to Goldschmidt, there's also one more tiny scene that doesn't appear in the CBS broadcast (presumably due to time contraints), but does appear on home video: a quick gag in which Yukon Cornelius, who's been striking with his pickaxe for the entire show looking for some sort of metal (he keeps changing his mind on what is is), finally hits what he was really hunting for:
peppermint!

As for a GE commercial featuring their logo on Rudolph's nose, I haven't read anything about that, but it's likely. And Ken Jennings himself has commented on Jeopardy! about his resemblance to Hermey.

Annie-Xmas
12-06-2004, 02:06 PM
Who did Santa shoot? When he left Elf Practice, he was pretty perturbed. He walked off camera, and you hear a gunshot (or a slamming door.) I know it wasn't the Mel Cooley elf, nor Hermie, but who was it?

And has anyone else counted the reindeer pulling the sled? Seven, counting Rudolph. C'mon, one of the easiest things to get right, and they screwed it up.

First you ask "Who did Santa shoot," then you comment on the missing reindeer. I thnk you answered your own question.

Sean Factotum
12-06-2004, 02:48 PM
First you ask "Who did Santa shoot," then you comment on the missing reindeer. I thnk you answered your own question.Yes, it is obvious in retrospective, isn't it? Thank you.

BMalion
12-06-2004, 03:48 PM
if you do a frame-by-frame analysis of the scene, that the toy bird was preparing to attack the poor elf, no doubt due to psychological imbalance stemming from it's mistreatment as a misfit toy.

I have seen video of Santa himself escaping the scene through the snow on a giant electric shaver!

Biffy the Elephant Shrew
12-06-2004, 04:23 PM
I have seen video of Santa himself escaping the scene through the snow on a giant electric shaver!
A Noëlco, of course.

mobo85
11-30-2005, 05:55 PM
Since C K Dexter Haven allowed the bumping of this thread last year, and it has become a Christmas tradtion for this board, I think it's time to bring this thread back for a 5th consecutive year. I am dedicating it to the memory of its originator, the late poopah chalupa.

Since C K also says "don't resurrect a new thread unless you have something to add," I'll add this:

The 41st annual showing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be tonight at 8:00 Eastern on CBS.

Khadaji
11-30-2005, 06:30 PM
Since C K Dexter Haven[/b] allowed the bumping of this thread last year, and it has become a Christmas tradtion for this board, I think it's time to bring this thread back for a 5th consecutive year. I am dedicating it to the memory of its originator, the late poopah chalupa.

Since C K also says "don't resurrect a new thread unless you have something to add," I'll add this:

The 41st annual showing of [i]Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be tonight at 8:00 Eastern on CBS.
Thanks for letting us know. I have the DVD, but I'll probably watch anyway. :)

kaylasdad99
11-30-2005, 06:40 PM
Thanks, mobo. I just called home and instructed Michaela to set the TiVo.

gotpasswords
12-01-2005, 11:16 AM
Someone did a nice job on restoring the film for this year. Last time I saw Rudolph, it was fuzzy and spotted. I thought it was funny that they presented it in HDTV - after all, it's made on probably old 16mm film. Previously, it looked like Super8.

RumMunkey
12-01-2005, 11:43 AM
Yeah, about that HD version: To get it widescreen, wouldn't they have to stretch it or crop it? I mean, it was made for TV, so 4:3 is it's native aspect ratio is it not?

mojave66
12-01-2005, 02:01 PM
@#!%#@!!! I missed it. Off to the DVD store...

kingpengvin
12-01-2005, 02:13 PM
I dunno about a high def clean claer version of the show. It was designed with the old fashioned fuzzy small monitors and their tinny mono speakers in mind. They cheated a lot of things knowing they wouldn't be caught on the old sets. Now we can see the strings on the puppets and the string of lights that represent stars. I prefer a little bit of fuzzier picture.

Sampiro
12-01-2005, 02:21 PM
I found this channel surfing last night and watched it for the first time since I was a wee bairn. When I was a kid I thought it was scary and disturbing. Last night I thought it was scary and disturbing. I don't know why, but it's one of those "just freaks me out" things. And Santa doesn't come off as very likable in it ("Shame about that nose or I'd put him on my sleigh"- listen you elf exploiting lard ass, Rudolph can't help the fact he has a red nose! And how do you think it makes him feel hearing the man all the Pole looks on as George Washington/Solomon/and God rolled into one trashing him for what he's already sensitive about, been rejected by his father because of and is powerless to change? And just how would you feel if you lived in a world where everybody around you wanted to celebrate Hannukkah or Kwanzaa but in your heart you knew you were only meant to celebrate Christmas and those you loved rejected you, how would you feel Mama? The fact that I'm gay has nothing to do wit...

Sorry, what were we talking about?

Oh yeah, I liked the song better. Just because Rudolph's nose was red wouldn't mean it would light up- that part stretched credibility. Orlando Bloom as an elf would have helped a lot too.

Revtim
12-01-2005, 02:29 PM
And Santa doesn't come off as very likable in itHe's a damn red-nose hating bigot in this movie. In the director's cut, there's a scene of him burning a cross on Donner's lawn.

Sampiro
12-01-2005, 02:34 PM
He's a damn red-nose hating bigot in this movie. In the director's cut, there's a scene of him burning a cross on Donner's lawn.

Which being on a glacier was particularly stupid. And the way they treated the Abominable Snow Creature- pulling his teeth without anesthesia? Where's PETA at times like this? Damn, just cut off his scrotum and make him wear a tutu why don't you? I half expected Abominable to wake up and find Hermey and his dental tools standing over him asking in a German accent "Is it safe?" (http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/reviews/marathon.htm)

What Exit?
12-01-2005, 02:35 PM
I watch it with my daughter last night. When it came to the scene with the Jelly shooting gun, I immediately said, Homer would love that
I got a good laugh. Easy audience.
We both enjoyed the bumbles bounce scene. The show is dated but yet still appeals to kids so that’s pretty cool.

Jim

What Exit?
12-01-2005, 02:38 PM
Which being on a glacier was particularly stupid. And the way they treated the Abominable Snow Creature- pulling his teeth without anesthesia? Where's PETA at times like this? Damn, just cut off his scrotum and make him wear a tutu why don't you? I half expected Abominable to wake up and find Hermey and his dental tools standing over him asking in a German accent "Is it safe?" (http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/reviews/marathon.htm)
Abominable is a meat eating humanoid so PETA probably give Hermey a lifetime membership.

Jim

ivylass
12-01-2005, 02:41 PM
Orlando Bloom as an elf would have helped a lot too.

Oh, please. You'd take Orlando Bloom as Clarice if you could get him, complete with pink polka-dotted bow on his head. ;)

Anyone get a "quality" from Charlie-in-the-Box? And did King Moonracer evoke the Lion of Narnia for anyone?

Yeah, Santa was a bit of a jerk in this. And how could he eat so much to get fat in one evening? He cancelled Christmas because of the weather report, then Rudolph lights his nose, and Mrs. Santa starts shoving food down his throat, and then it's Ho-Ho-Ho hook up the sleigh and get ready to stop at the Isle of Misfit Toys.

Boy, a lot of stuff sails right over our heads when we're kids.

caveman
12-01-2005, 03:29 PM
In all this time, noone has mentioned the other un-misfitish toy on the IoMT: the yellow scooter! Just what was wrong with it?

What Exit?
12-01-2005, 03:36 PM
In all this time, noone has mentioned the other un-misfitish toy on the IoMT: the yellow scooter! Just what was wrong with it?
It was yellow, who ever heard of a scooter that was Yellow. My gosh, the horror.

ladybug
12-01-2005, 05:44 PM
I watched Rudolph again last night and started wondering: do all of the toys created in Santa's warehouse become self-aware, sentient beings like the inhabitants of the IoMT? If so, why didn't that one doll object when Hermie was hammering away at her teeth?

I've given this show way too much thought.

ladybug
12-01-2005, 05:45 PM
And by "warehouse," of course, I mean "workshop." :smack:

jsc1953
12-01-2005, 05:54 PM
I watched Rudolph again last night and started wondering: do all of the toys created in Santa's warehouse become self-aware, sentient beings like the inhabitants of the IoMT? If so, why didn't that one doll object when Hermie was hammering away at her teeth?

I've given this show way too much thought.

Toys receive the spark of sentience upon arriving at the IoMT, so they are immediately and constantly tormented night and day with thoughts of their own inadequacies. Once they're distributed as presents, they revert to blissful nothingness.

Kinda creepy.

What Exit?
12-01-2005, 06:27 PM
Toys receive the spark of sentience upon arriving at the IoMT, so they are immediately and constantly tormented night and day with thoughts of their own inadequacies. Once they're distributed as presents, they revert to blissful nothingness.

Kinda creepy.
That finally explains Chucky. ;)

mobo85
12-01-2005, 09:08 PM
Oh yeah, I liked the song better. Just because Rudolph's nose was red wouldn't mean it would light up- that part stretched credibility.

According to Sam the Snowman, Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer had a very shiny nose. In fact, if you ever saw it, you might even say it glows. Whether or not it actually glows or if the glowing is a figment of your imagination, I'm not sure. Not sure why it squeaks, either.

Sampiro
12-01-2005, 10:24 PM
Toys receive the spark of sentience upon arriving at the IoMT, so they are immediately and constantly tormented night and day with thoughts of their own inadequacies. Once they're distributed as presents, they revert to blissful nothingness.

Kinda creepy.


I think the toys are Santa's horcruxes.

Walloon
12-02-2005, 01:08 AM
I thought it was funny that they presented it in HDTV - after all, it's made on probably old 16mm film.It was filmed on 35mm.

Amaranta
12-02-2005, 02:39 AM
I'm so glad this thread is here, as it answers a question which came up at work last night and was argued over for several hours - the dentist elf's name. For some reason, we settled on Timothy, but knew it wasn't quite right. How wrong we were!

Now, another question to add: what the hell is that sound Rudolph's nose makes when it glows? Why? Does anything make that noise while glowing?

jsgoddess
12-02-2005, 07:19 AM
Now, another question to add: what the hell is that sound Rudolph's nose makes when it glows? Why? Does anything make that noise while glowing?

Because it's cute, it's cuuuuuuuuute! *flies around room*

kingpengvin
12-02-2005, 08:08 AM
Now, another question to add: what the hell is that sound Rudolph's nose makes when it glows? Why? Does anything make that noise while glowing?

Easy it is caused by the beating of the wings of the lumimous parisites in his shnoz which cause sympathetic vibrations in Rudolph's skull that are amplified by his sinus cavities.

Don't you know anything about micans nose morbus?

What Exit?
12-02-2005, 08:25 AM
Easy it is caused by the beating of the wings of the lumimous parisites in his shnoz which cause sympathetic vibrations in Rudolph's skull that are amplified by his sinus cavities.

Don't you know anything about micans nose morbus?
Could you provide some more detailed information about this, it sounds quite fascinating?

Jim

BMalion
12-02-2005, 08:34 AM
Easy it is caused by the beating of the wings of the lumimous parisites in his shnoz which cause sympathetic vibrations in Rudolph's skull that are amplified by his sinus cavities.

Don't you know anything about micans nose morbus?


I thought it was an unusually high concentration of mistle-chlorians.

kingpengvin
12-02-2005, 08:45 AM
Could you provide some more detailed information about this, it sounds quite fascinating?

Jim


We it is a rare condition found in the species Rangifer tarandus. Essentially it is a small luminous pariste found in the tundra called the Recubo bug. It is similar to a lightbug, but is much smaller and it's glow is tinted by its blood giving it a red look. In its larval stage it can be found in droppings. If a reindeer roots through the droppings the larva will crawl into the nose and continue to grow in the warm damp areas.

Eventually it will pass the pupa stage in fly out the nose of its host. It is in this stage that it adopts its distinct red glow. Occasionally there are cases where the insect will be trapped in the nose of its host. If there are more than one Recubo they will cause the nose to literally glow, this is accompanied by the unique sound caused by the method I described before.

This is known as micans nose morbus.

In the extremely rare case, when there is a swarm of Recubi in the nose, the host has been lifted by them and there is the appearance of flying.

In real life the sound and the constant glow of the nose causes madness and eventually death in the host. It is a horribly sad thing.

eleanorigby
12-02-2005, 09:20 AM
First you ask "Who did Santa shoot," then you comment on the missing reindeer. I thnk you answered your own question.

And you'll notice that Fireball is NEVER seen again.


I'm thinking Santa has something against blonde shocks of hair.



PS-and what a nag Mrs was! Santa was mean and Mrs is a fishwife! Lovely people.

I'm with the wife from Europe waaaay upthread (and I didn't know I was going back in time when I opened this! Very neat)--this is a Christmas story?

Perhaps the original error was basing the whole story on a Monkey Wards promo figure, anyways.......

(no comment on the nose infestation post--trying hard not to bring up breakfast over here!)

What Exit?
12-02-2005, 09:33 AM
We it is a rare condition found in the species Rangifer tarandus. Essentially it is a small luminous pariste found in the tundra called the Recubo bug. It is similar to a lightbug, but is much smaller and it's glow is tinted by its blood giving it a red look. In its larval stage it can be found in droppings. If a reindeer roots through the droppings the larva will crawl into the nose and continue to grow in the warm damp areas.

Eventually it will pass the pupa stage in fly out the nose of its host. It is in this stage that it adopts its distinct red glow. Occasionally there are cases where the insect will be trapped in the nose of its host. If there are more than one Recubo they will cause the nose to literally glow, this is accompanied by the unique sound caused by the method I described before.

This is known as micans nose morbus.

In the extremely rare case, when there is a swarm of Recubi in the nose, the host has been lifted by them and there is the appearance of flying.

In real life the sound and the constant glow of the nose causes madness and eventually death in the host. It is a horribly sad thing.

:) Ignorance fought yet again by SDMB.

Thank You
Jim

kaylasdad99
12-02-2005, 10:22 AM
I was going to suggest that the squeal was caused by feedback in the sound recording equipment due to the HF interference from the electronics in Rudy's nose, but I think we should stick with kingpengvin's more scientific-sounding (and terrifyingly plausible) explanation.

kingpengvin
12-02-2005, 10:58 AM
I was going to suggest that the squeal was caused by feedback in the sound recording equipment due to the HF interference from the electronics in Rudy's nose, but I think we should stick with kingpengvin's more scientific-sounding (and terrifyingly plausible) explanation.


;)

NDP
12-02-2005, 01:30 PM
We it is a rare condition found in the species Rangifer tarandus. Essentially it is a small luminous pariste found in the tundra called the Recubo bug. It is similar to a lightbug, but is much smaller and it's glow is tinted by its blood giving it a red look. In its larval stage it can be found in droppings. If a reindeer roots through the droppings the larva will crawl into the nose and continue to grow in the warm damp areas.

Eventually it will pass the pupa stage in fly out the nose of its host. It is in this stage that it adopts its distinct red glow. Occasionally there are cases where the insect will be trapped in the nose of its host. If there are more than one Recubo they will cause the nose to literally glow, this is accompanied by the unique sound caused by the method I described before.

This is known as micans nose morbus.

In the extremely rare case, when there is a swarm of Recubi in the nose, the host has been lifted by them and there is the appearance of flying.

In real life the sound and the constant glow of the nose causes madness and eventually death in the host. It is a horribly sad thing.

Interesting theory. It does, however, conflict with the one stating the glowing red nose is a genetic mutation caused by exposure to radioactivity. Apparently, at least one of Rudolph's parents was exposed to radioactive materials by way of fall-out from Cold War-era above-ground nuclear tests that drifted into the Arctic or flying through an area that was recently contaminated by an atomic blast. Given what we know what exposure to excessive amounts of radiation can do, Rudolph's parents should've been thankful that their offspring was born with just a luminous red nose.

gotpasswords
12-02-2005, 02:41 PM
It was filmed on 35mm.
Hmmm... Up until now, it had been looking like very poorly treated film.

As in, are they washing it with eggnog each year?

mobo85
12-02-2005, 05:17 PM
I just purchased Rick Goldschmidt's book Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: The Making of the Rankin-Bass Animated Classic. Interesting stuff. Perhaps most interesting is the original 1963 rough draft script. The story is the same, but there are some scenes and other things which didn't make it to the final cut. And Sam the Snowman was going to be played by Stubby Kaye instead of Burl Ives, so he's "a rolly-polly (sic), Runyonesque little snowman...the Nicely-Nicely Johnson of snowmen" and presumably speaks with a New York accent. There are also pictures of some vintage GE commericals featuring the characters and the original closing credits sequence. Good stuff.

Annie-Xmas
11-24-2006, 09:26 AM
*BUMP*

Happy Holidays 2006

mobo85
11-24-2006, 11:23 AM
All right then, I'll announce it as I do each year. The 42nd annual airing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be at 8pm EST on Friday, December 8 on CBS (followed by the animated Frosty the Snowman and entertaining-yet-bizarre Bill Melendez effort Frosty Returns). As always, this thread is dedicated to the memory of poopah chalupa, originator of the Dope's holiday tradition. You'll go down in history!

RachelChristine
12-09-2006, 09:22 AM
I caught it this year for the first time since I was a kid. Awesomely disturbing! But my stupid tape cut off a few minutes from the end. I really wanted to see whether it was a murder or suicide.

BMalion
12-09-2006, 09:39 AM
Well, I was in my hotel in Toronto (business) last night bored out of my skull and flipping chanels when I happened upon the opening credits. Brought a nostalgic tear to my eye it did.

Was it my imagination or was some footage that was trimmed for extra commercial time restored? There were some scenes I don't remember seeing in years past.

Merry Christmas! by the way.

interface2x
12-09-2006, 11:32 AM
Was it my imagination or was some footage that was trimmed for extra commercial time restored? There were some scenes I don't remember seeing in years past. If I'm remembering correctly, they didn't include the "elf practice" scene in there back in the 80's, but it was restored somewhere around 1990 or so.

BMalion
12-09-2006, 12:42 PM
If I'm remembering correctly, they didn't include the "elf practice" scene in there back in the 80's, but it was restored somewhere around 1990 or so.


Ah-ha! Thanks, interface2x.

minlokwat
12-09-2006, 01:56 PM
Can I be excused for not reading every thread in between page one and this last one? Excuse me if this has been brought up before.

I have to give credit where it's due, my wife was the first to make note of the owl assassination plot during the closing credits. I brought the point up way back when but seemed to be passing off the observation as if mine own.

Well my ever-astute wife picked up on another odd tidbit.

Anyone notice Herbie/Hermie's ears?

They are definitely not the pointed elfin ones that the others possess.

Could it be that Her(m)bie is the bastard son of and result of some indiscretion involving one of the female elves and ….well, it would have to be Santa!

This would explain why Hermie doesn’t like to make toys and has aspirations other than those of the typical elf.

Might this also explain why Santa is such an insufferable grouch when he is around the elves?
Anyone?

Again hope this topic hasn't already been broached

BMalion
12-11-2006, 08:27 AM
Can I be excused for not reading every thread in between page one and this last one?

Nope, no excuse, go back and read all the threads then re-post. Thanks.

Annie-Xmas
12-11-2006, 09:18 AM
I just purchased Rick Goldschmidt's book Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer: The Making of the Rankin-Bass Animated Classic. Interesting stuff. Perhaps most interesting is the original 1963 rough draft script. The story is the same, but there are some scenes and other things which didn't make it to the final cut. And Sam the Snowman was going to be played by Stubby Kaye instead of Burl Ives, so he's "a rolly-polly (sic), Runyonesque little snowman...the Nicely-Nicely Johnson of snowmen" and presumably speaks with a New York accent. There are also pictures of some vintage GE commericals featuring the characters and the original closing credits sequence. Good stuff.

When I bumped this thread, I didn't even notice this post.

Thanks for mobo85 for making me aware of this great book thta I definitely have to get.

furlibusea
12-11-2006, 10:33 AM
If the elf didn't know
You must let him go!

.

[Les Nessman Voice] I swear on my life; I thought owls could fly [/LNV]

DSYoungEsq
12-11-2006, 10:48 AM
[Les Nessman Voice] I swear on my life; I thought owls could fly [/LNV]
turkeys

furlibusea
12-11-2006, 12:59 PM
turkeys
Well yah but it was an owl in Rudolph. Oh well, serves me right.

Zakalwe
12-11-2006, 01:06 PM
turkeysMan, that may be one of the more vicious whooshings I've ever seen...

kaylasdad99
12-11-2006, 01:24 PM
Well yah but it was an owl in Rudolph. Oh well, serves me right.
And in WKRP it was Mr. Carlson, not Les Nessman.

So I guess owls is okay.

Caractacus Pott
12-12-2006, 02:59 AM
This strip (http://www.drinkatwork.com/medlarge669.gif) strip summarizes the OP well. Francesco Marciuliano has a wicked sense of humor! It's hard to believe the same man writes Drink at Work and Sally Forth.

jsc1953
12-22-2006, 12:18 PM
Also, the original airing had animated ads for the sponsor, General Electric, featuring the singing elves. It was GE's head who did not like "We're a Couple of Misfits," which had them remove it and replace it with "Fame and Fortune" from 1965 (1065?) to 1997.

I came here to bring this up...I just saw it last night, end to end for the first time in a LOOONG time. When Hermie & Rudolph hook up and head out, I was expecting the Fame & Fortune song, and wondered why the hell were they doing a reprise of Misfits?

Sean Factotum
12-22-2006, 12:35 PM
This strip (http://www.drinkatwork.com/medlarge669.gif) strip summarizes the OP well. Francesco Marciuliano has a wicked sense of humor! It's hard to believe the same man writes Drink at Work and Sally Forth.
This is now hanging up in my cubicle. And I have sent the link to many friends. Thank you.

crazyjoe
12-22-2006, 01:42 PM
If I'm remembering correctly, they didn't include the "elf practice" scene in there back in the 80's, but it was restored somewhere around 1990 or so.


What was up with the voice of the head elf for elf practice? It was completely different than the voice he uses for the rest of the show.

NDP
12-22-2006, 02:42 PM
What was up with the voice of the head elf for elf practice? It was completely different than the voice he uses for the rest of the show.

It was always my impression that the head elf used an affected a cutesy "suck-up-to-Santa" tone to his voice only when Santa was around. Otherwise, he spoke with a "drill sergeant" voice.

jsc1953
12-22-2006, 03:52 PM
I thought they were trying to pass him off as a separate character.

NDP
12-26-2006, 02:02 AM
Anyway, since I brought up the topic of elf drill sergeants, here's a relevant video link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qMVSis5lyk)

BMalion
11-28-2007, 12:25 PM
Here she comes!

THE LONGEST-RUNNING HOLIDAY SPECIAL RETURNS
Tuesday, December 4, 8pm et/pt

RUDOLPH THE RED-NOSED REINDEER! (http://www.cbs.com/specials/rudolph/)

"Ready Rudolph?"

What Exit?
11-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Here she comes!



RUDOLPH THE RED-NOSED REINDEER! (http://www.cbs.com/specials/rudolph/)

"Ready Rudolph?"
It seems appropriate that the longest running Christmas Special has the longest running thread. Thanks for posting the date. My kids still love this and I of course grew up on it.

Jim

minlokwat
11-28-2007, 02:10 PM
My kids still love this and I of course grew up on it.

Jim
The cartoon or this thread?

What Exit?
11-28-2007, 02:21 PM
The cartoon or this thread?
Okay, that made me laugh.

(the cartoon for the record)

Stauderhorse
11-28-2007, 03:01 PM
God, I can't believe I'm posting in the Rudolph thread. [/starstruck]

I always loved this special, even though Rudolph's father (Donner?) was a bit of a jerk. I used to watch this on VHS every year, but our new entertainment center won't let me play VHS tapes. :(

Maybe I'll catch it on TV.

Freudian Slit
11-28-2007, 03:02 PM
It was always my impression that the head elf used an affected a cutesy "suck-up-to-Santa" tone to his voice only when Santa was around. Otherwise, he spoke with a "drill sergeant" voice.
I thought he was being a suck up, too...never occurred to me his talking differently was a mistake or a different character. Wow, if that was their attempt at a different character...::shakes head:: :)

ETA: Anybody know when it's coming on this year?

shamrock227
11-28-2007, 03:02 PM
Whee! Forget when the stores decorate. Forget when the radio starts playing Christmas music all day. Forget Thanksgiving. Seeing this thread pop up marks the real start of the Christmas season. :D

mobo85
11-28-2007, 05:58 PM
ETA: Anybody know when it's coming on this year?

As BMalion told us, the 43rd annual showing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be on Tuesday, December 4 at 8pm.

Rudolph and the gang are starring in a clever spot for Aflac insurance animated in the style of the original special.

Freudian Slit
11-28-2007, 06:03 PM
As BMalion told us, the 43rd annual showing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer will be on Tuesday, December 4 at 8pm.

Rudolph and the gang are starring in a clever spot for Aflac insurance animated in the style of the original special.
:smack: D'oh! I should've scrolled up further.

Thanks, I can't wait.

"Ready, Santa!"

The Them
11-29-2007, 01:25 AM
Let me be the first of the season to point out the...less savory...aspects of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. As a child, I was always very touched by the scene where Rudolph and Hermie head off into the snow, running away from Christmastown and the only lives they had ever known. Without so much as backpacks or a can of lighter fluid! THAT is bravery! The Burl Ives voiceover says "Nobody knows how Hermie and Rudolph made it through that first night..."

But as has been mentioned....that blond reindeer, Fireball, was never seen again. The conclusion is simple. Hermie and Rudolph needed food for their Arctic adventure. We already know that the other reindeer- and Santa himself!- were wildly bigoted against those of different appearance. Since they were unable to access supplies from Santa's larder- witness the lack of luggage- they took something that wouldn't be missed....

The other mutant reindeer.

Christmasville never organized a search party for RUDOLPH. And HE was from a prominent family! Noone would ever complain about the fact that some reindeer prole never showed up for work the next day. Noone who mattered...

Freudian Slit
12-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Poor Fireball. :( I always did like him.

Did anyone find anything...a lil dirty about Comet telling the kids he wants to be their "pal"? No, okay, maybe not. But in our day and age of "To Catch a Predator," it does come off as rather hilarious.

Also...RUDOLPH! It's on! Right now!

RachelChristine
12-04-2007, 08:17 PM
GAH! Cut off before the murder/suicide scene again. Darn DVR. Maybe I'll just *buy* the silly movie.

Was asked a question today at school... One of the other teachers has an LP about Rudolph's first Christmas. In it, Santa is flying around on the foggy Christmas Eve trying to see in each window if it is a boy or a girl, when he sees one window lit up from the glowing nose of a sleeping reindeer. And that's how he found Rudolph. (Okay, that's sort of what she said, I can't remember exactly.) Has anyone else ever heard a version like this? She was always confused as a child by the show because of the differences.

UntouchedTakeaway
12-05-2007, 03:24 AM
I've always wanted to contribute to this thread! :D

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/04/real.rudolph.ap/index.html

A link to a story about the surviving Santa & Rudolph figures & their restoration.

VCNJ~

Walloon
12-05-2007, 09:45 AM
I remember seeing those figurines (or their replicas) on display at NBC studios in New York when my family visited in 1968.