Are we seeing a break between Palin and McCain?

[TV time]

In light of Governor Palin breaking away from her McCain handlers and speaking to reporters and her doing more "off the cuff" interviews does this indicate that she is attempting some separation from the top name on the Republican ticket? In addition does this mean she is looking four years down the road instead of a handful of days?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/20/palin-meets-the-press_n_136164.html

[Burton]

I think it's more likely she's working getting her TV career going. I can't see her given the choice of POTUS or unlimited opportunity to make money and bask in the adulation of the ignorant taking the hard road.

[Hampshire]

My gut feeling (based pretty much on nothing) was that McCain was never too thrilled at having her as a running mate to begin with. It seems as if she was forced on him by the Republican party with whom he was never too chummy to begin with.
He never really seemed all that comfortable defending her or promoting her. Even when pressed by Dave Letterman on the topic all McCain could come up with was "She inspires people."
I think she's more representative of what the Republican party wants to be (staunch conservative) while McCain saw himself as a uniter/moderate who wanted to cross the aisle.

[Ethilrist]

Main Entry: mav·er·ick
Pronunciation: \ˈmav-rik, ˈma-və-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Samuel A. Maverick †1870 American pioneer who did not brand his calves
Date: 1867
1: an unbranded range animal ; especially : a motherless calf
2: an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party

Guess the honeymoon's over.

[Marley23]

My gut feeling (based pretty much on nothing) was that McCain was never too thrilled at having her as a running mate to begin with. It seems as if she was forced on him by the Republican party with whom he was never too chummy to begin with.
That isn't how presidential campaigns work. She may not have been his dream choice - his campaign staff apparently didn't like the other options - but he did choose her himself. The New York Times has a long story detailing that, along with everything else his campaign has done.

[AuntiePam]

I think McCain had the same notion as the rest of us -- that someone who manages to get elected Governor of a state is most likely an intelligent, capable individual. That was his first mistake. The second mistake was to think she'd be flattered and grateful to be chosen for the ticket, and that she'd be easy to control.

Part of me thinks "Good for her", but I wish she'd done this earlier. Now it just looks like she's jumping ship.

[Phlosphr]

Everytime I watch the news, turn on the radio, or look at a newspaper something else is falling off the republican ticket. Today, reading this, it looks like the only thing NOT falling is Palin's Ego.

[puddleglum]

As Palin is growing more comfortable on the campaign trail she is getting looser and better acquainted with what McCain wants her role to be. Her media handlers don't want her to talk to the press without them, because if she does they are not needed. Also a candidate always wants to leave the impression when they are talking to someone that they want to talk more but that they are being forced to stop talking because of a busy schedule and impatient aides. Palin has seemed very disciplined in this campaign and she is unlikely to stop now that the race is tightening up and almost over.

[Knorf]

Palin has seemed very disciplined in this campaign and she is unlikely to stop now that the race is tightening up and almost over.
What color is the wallpaper in your fantasy-land room?

"Tightening up?" "Very disciplined?"

The mind boggles.

Ok. What polls--and more importantly which reputable poll analysts--are showing a "tightening" race? None that I see. All I see is a increasingly solid Obama lead.

As for "very disciplined," are you kidding me? You have noticed, I hope, that Palin has publicly disagreed with McCain's policy positions and election strategy recently? From my viewpoint, it almost looks like they're running two separate campaigns for two different offices, if you look at how divergent their apparent tactics are. I can't tell that she pays any attention to McCain at all anymore, other than she has to occasionally mention that he's the actual nominee for president.

[mabes10]

Am I the only one who thinks she has improved a great deal in the past couple of weeks? I mean I hate almost everything about her and her lies and distortions infuriate me, but she seems to much better spoken and in some cases back up her arguments with, well I won't call them facts, but what she presents as facts. Things that could pass as a legit argument to the average voter. Maybe I'm overestimating it because anything would have been an improvement over not being able to name a newspaper.

My point is that a few weeks ago there were a lot of jokes about her going back to Alaska after this was over and that she had no political future, but I could actually see her as a potential candidate in four years, if she moves a little more towards the center. Not too far, just enought so that moderates don't think of her as a dangerous extremist. What if she does this, and, in six months or so makes some sort of a statement that she regrets some of the language in the campaign, like calling Obama a socialist. And the reason I say that she needs to do that is because of how turned off most voters have been by the negative campaiging, which may not work in the future as well as it has in the past.

Could she get the nomination next time?

[MovieMogul]

As Palin is growing more comfortable on the campaign trail she is getting looser and better acquainted with what McCain wants her role to be. Who knows? She might finally find her groove in, say, mid-December!

[The Flying Dutchman]

...does this indicate that she is attempting some separation from the top name on the Republican ticket?

No no no. last night on Jay Leno I heard her speak of the "Palin- McCain" ticket.

[Knorf]

Could she get the nomination next time?
I really doubt it. It's too obvious that she embodies everything that is really, really wrong with the Republican Party right now. Only hardcore Republicans approve of her or see her as a credible candidate now.

[Phlosphr]

How many more republicans (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/24/uselections2008-republicans-obama-obamicans)need to jump ship before people see who the more qualified and Trusted candidate is?

[rocking chair]

are we seeing a break....

oh, ya, you betcha!

[ASAKMOTSD]

To quote an anonymous source close to the situation, "Youbetcha!"

[puddleglum]

What color is the wallpaper in your fantasy-land room?

"Tightening up?" "Very disciplined?"

The mind boggles.

Ok. What polls--and more importantly which reputable poll analysts--are showing a "tightening" race? None that I see. All I see is a increasingly solid Obama lead.

As for "very disciplined," are you kidding me? You have noticed, I hope, that Palin has publicly disagreed with McCain's policy positions and election strategy recently? From my viewpoint, it almost looks like they're running two separate campaigns for two different offices, if you look at how divergent their apparent tactics are. I can't tell that she pays any attention to McCain at all anymore, other than she has to occasionally mention that he's the actual nominee for president.
Your logic does not resemble our earth logic. If McCain and Palin were saying the same things, she would be redundant. He uses her to attack Obama without having to dirty his own image. She can rally the base without him appearing to pander. This is standard political strategy, it is like every four years people forget that there has ever been an election before.

[Revenant Threshold]

I suspect that it's the natural reaction to accusations that she speaks from a script and is told exactly what to say by handlers, and has a poor knowledge base of her own. By doing things like this, it aims to show she's intelligent in her own right without previous running through of talking points.

Or perhaps she herself is annoyed by such accusations, and is trying to deal with it personally without involving her staff. Either way, I think it's more of a reaction that an indication that all hope has been lost on the McCain team.

[Ca3799]

I don't think we will see much of her after the election is over. I think she may get bogged down in Alaska with Troopergate and her falling approval ratings.

Perhaps the RNC will try to groom her for later. She is ambitious, and not all that bright, but she is a loose cannon. There is too much a risk they would likely find themselves sorry later.



"Palin also proposed expanding funding of the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, which was signed into law in 1975 but has never been fully funded. The McCain campaign estimates that fully funding the program would cost an additional $45 billion over five years, money that Palin said could be found by cutting federal pork barrel spending.

"We've got a $3 trillion budget in this country," she said. "And Congress spends some $18 billion on earmarks for their political pet projects, and that right there is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA."Palin also proposed expanding funding of the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, which was signed into law in 1975 but has never been fully funded. The McCain campaign estimates that fully funding the program would cost an additional $45 billion over five years, money that Palin said could be found by cutting federal pork barrel spending.

"We've got a $3 trillion budget in this country," she said. "And Congress spends some $18 billion on earmarks for their political pet projects, and that right there is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[mabes10]

I don't think we will see much of her after the election is over. I think she may get bogged down in Alaska with Troopergate and her falling approval ratings.

Perhaps the RNC will try to groom her for later. She is ambitious, and not all that bright, but she is a loose cannon. There is too much a risk they would likely find themselves sorry later.



"Palin also proposed expanding funding of the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, which was signed into law in 1975 but has never been fully funded. The McCain campaign estimates that fully funding the program would cost an additional $45 billion over five years, money that Palin said could be found by cutting federal pork barrel spending.

"We've got a $3 trillion budget in this country," she said. "And Congress spends some $18 billion on earmarks for their political pet projects, and that right there is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA."Palin also proposed expanding funding of the Individuals With Disabilities Education Act, which was signed into law in 1975 but has never been fully funded. The McCain campaign estimates that fully funding the program would cost an additional $45 billion over five years, money that Palin said could be found by cutting federal pork barrel spending.

"We've got a $3 trillion budget in this country," she said. "And Congress spends some $18 billion on earmarks for their political pet projects, and that right there is more than the shortfall to fully fund IDEA."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/24/campaign.wrap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

You left out the part where she says Obama will hurt special needs children.

Though she has previously declared that this issue should be nonpartisan, Palin said that Barack Obama’s tax plan would hurt families who establish financial trusts to care for their special needs kids.

“Understandably then, many families with special needs children or dependent adults, they’re concerned about in this race our opponent in this election who plans to raise taxes on precisely these kinds of financial arrangements,” she said.

Back in September, they said this-

"Barack Obama's running mate sunk to a new low today, launching an offensive debate over who cares more about special needs children," McCain-Palin spokesman Ben Porritt said. "Playing politics with this issue is disturbing and indicative of a desperate campaign.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10...y4542941.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/...eds/index.html

[mswas]

It's about time.

[Merijeek]

Palin has seemed very disciplined in this campaign and she is unlikely to stop now that the race is tightening up and almost over.

Severe concussions should be treated immediately.

-Joe

[mabes10]

New information from Palin in her interview with Brian Williams. They are trying to distance themselves from Bush, and she tells us that McCain is....wait for it...known as a maverick who has gone against his own party.

And he has the scars to prove it.

[Knorf]

New information from Palin in her interview with Brian Williams. They are trying to distance themselves from Bush, and she tells us that McCain is....wait for it...known as a maverick who has gone against his own party.

And he has the scars to prove it.

Wait, they're saying McCain is a maverick? NO kidding! WOW. And here I just thought he was a Bush clone!

I guess I'd better change my support from Obama the Terrorist to McCain the Maverick!

Oh, wait, I already voted.

Meh.

[Frostillicus]

I realize now that she only accepted the VP nomination because it gave her the opportunity to get the hell out of Alaska. No way is she returning to that frozen tundra after spending two months in the lower 48. Hello, Miami!

[John Mace]

No more than we're seeing the break between Obama and Biden. It's just that McCain/Palin gets about 100x more scrutiny around here than Obama/Biden does.

[HPL]

You left out the part where she says Obama will hurt special needs children.

[I]Though she has previously declared that this issue should be nonpartisan, Palin said that Barack Obama’s tax plan would hurt families who establish financial trusts to care for their special needs kids.


If you vote for Obama, you hate children.

You don't hate children, do you?

[gonzomax]

Palin has a loud and rabid following. They scream in agreement with everything she says. They do not treat McCain with the same love, because he is just not crazy enough for them. In campaigns 'the speakers seem to forget they are talking just to followers. They actually begin to believe everybody loves them as much as the people at their rallies. It is intoxicating and untrue. I suspect Palin thinks she is rallying a huge and formidable base . She does not need McCain dragging her or her fans down.

[DSeid]

Maybe. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14929.html)Four Republicans close to Palin said she has decided increasingly to disregard the advice of the former Bush aides tasked to handle her, creating occasionally tense situations as she travels the country with them. Those Palin supporters, inside the campaign and out, said Palin blames her handlers for a botched rollout and a tarnished public image — even as others in McCain's camp blame the pick of the relatively inexperienced Alaska governor, and her public performance, for McCain's decline.

"She's lost confidence in most of the people on the plane," said a senior Republican who speaks to Palin, referring to her campaign jet. He said Palin had begun to "go rogue" in some of her public pronouncements and decisions.

"I think she'd like to go more rogue," he said.

The emergence of a Palin faction comes as Republicans gird for a battle over the future of their party: Some see her as a charismatic, hawkish conservative leader with the potential, still unrealized, to cross over to attract moderate voters. Anger among Republicans who see Palin as a star and as a potential future leader has boiled over because, they say, they see other senior McCain aides preparing to blame her in the event he is defeated.

[DSeid]

And more. (http://donklephant.com/2008/10/25/palin-breaks-with-mccain-over-ethanol-subsidies/)In Iowa today she said she supported ethanol.

Now, for anybody who knows about McCain’s opinions on ethanol subsidies, this is a BIG no no. Yeah, she is delusional about her national future. Pandering to Iowa is the usual way. But then again the GOP will have so little to coalesce around that her core of rabid righters may win her a few early primaries ...

[mswas]

And more. (http://donklephant.com/2008/10/25/palin-breaks-with-mccain-over-ethanol-subsidies/)Yeah, she is delusional about her national future. Pandering to Iowa is the usual way. But then again the GOP will have so little to coalesce around that her core of rabid righters may win her a few early primaries ...

Support for Ethanol and she's trying to claim that energy is one of the things she actually knows about?

[Carson O'Genic]

Palin has a loud and rabid following. They scream in agreement with everything she says. They do not treat McCain with the same love, because he is just not crazy enough for them. In campaigns 'the speakers seem to forget they are talking just to followers. They actually begin to believe everybody loves them as much as the people at their rallies. It is intoxicating and untrue. I suspect Palin thinks she is rallying a huge and formidable base . She does not need McCain dragging her or her fans down.

Pretty much how I see it. She appears to be splitting from McC, probably having nothing to do with policy but rather to avail of that American phenom "famous for being famous" which parlays into great wealth without need for accomplishment. She may stay in politics but has too limited appeal for another shot at the Big One.

[JustAnotherGeek]

If this could somehow mean an actual split in the republican party, I would do a happy dance. Let's see the Moderates form a "Party of Moderation", get McCain, Chaffee, and all of the moderate spending dems (Lieberman) together.

I could actually get behind this. Anything to diminish the ridiculous hold that the religious wrong has on our politics.

[DanBlather]

I realize now that she only accepted the VP nomination because it gave her the opportunity to get the hell out of Alaska. No way is she returning to that frozen tundra after spending two months in the lower 48. Hello, Miami!That and a new Caribou Barbie wardrobe.

[Little Nemo]

Palin may be getting worried that she's going to be the fallguy if McCain loses. The Republican leadership isn't going to want to blame themselves or McCain.

[Phlosphr]

Palin may be getting worried that she's going to be the fallguy if McCain loses. The Republican leadership isn't going to want to blame themselves or McCain.
She should be that is exactly what they are going to do. And to some degree they would be at least partially right.

[Sam Stone]

Palin's not the problem. The problem is that McCain has no philosophy or plan beyond being a 'Maverick'. So he's been all over the map, throwing out ideas left and right, and generally having an incoherent message. He blew it badly in his response to the financial crisis, when he ran around frantically tossing out 'plans', suspending his campaign, and in general looking non-Presidential and a little freaked out. In the meantime, Obama stayed cool. I think that was the really turning point - until then, McCain still owned the 'stability/age/experience' argument. After that week, Obama looked more composed and thoughtful than McCain did, and McCain lost the only edge he had.

I also agree with Palin that she was used poorly. She knows where her strength is, and it's out mixing it up, talking to local reporters, campaigning on the ground, and being herself. McCain's people squirreled her away, built up all this expectation, and then put all their eggs in the basked of a couple of high profile interviews that neutralized her strengths (her personality, her drive, her charisma), and emphasized her weaknesses (her knowledge of policy). It was stupid.

Every time Palin has gone out and done things her own way, it's worked. She knocked her nomination speech out of the park. She did fine in the debate. She draws 20,000 people to her campaign stops. She did fine on SNL. In the past week, she's intentionally avoided her Campaign handlers and 'gone off the reservation' to give interviews against their wishes, and she has yet to make a major gaffe, and in fact has turned some press people, if not to her side, then at least away from abject hostility.

So she has a point.

[pseudotriton ruber ruber]

Every time Palin has gone out and done things her own way, it's worked.

Not really.

She knocked her nomination speech out of the park.

And you know she wrote it , and McCain's people didn't even touch it up a bit? How do you know this? The opposite is what I've heard, and what seems only logical to me.


She did fine in the debate. Puh-lease. Biden kicked her cute little ass, in a very respectful and dignified way, of course.

She draws 20,000 people to her campaign stops. She did fine on SNL.

She did? She was a stick, who hardly did a thing. People do tune in to gawk at her, but that doesn't mean she pleased them. SNL was a total bust for her.

In the past week, she's intentionally avoided her Campaign handlers and 'gone off the reservation' to give interviews against their wishes, and she has yet to make a major gaffe, and in fact has turned some press people, if not to her side, then at least away from abject hostility.

Who are these press people you speak of? No one I've heard has made any such claims. Sarah "Has Yet To Make a Major Gaffe in Almost a Full Week" Palin has a head full of coarse-ground buckwheat, so I wonder how she can give an interview and not reveal her vapidity and storehouse of cliched talking points at every turn. You've bought a pig in a poke, Sam, and her lipstick is wearing off.

[Sam Stone]

And you know she wrote it , and McCain's people didn't even touch it up a bit? How do you know this? The opposite is what I've heard, and what seems only logical to me.

Where did I say she wrote the speech? The speech was already written, but had to be substantially re-written when she was picked, and my understanding is that she spent many hours with the speechwriter working on it. It was a joint effort. This is standard for politicians. Regardless, the delivery was amazing, and that's no simple thing. By all accounts except those of the left on the SDMB, she delivered one of the best speeches in decades.

Puh-lease. Biden kicked her cute little ass, in a very respectful and dignified way, of course.

So you say. Not everyone agrees with you. I didn't say she 'won', by the way. I said she did fine. And she did.

She did? She was a stick, who hardly did a thing. People do tune in to gawk at her, but that doesn't mean she pleased them. SNL was a total bust for her.

No it was not. Her approval rating when up significantly after she did SNL. And you ignored the part where she's drawing bigger crowds than everyone else except Obama - by a wide margin. She's drawing two to five times as many people as McCain is. And Biden's not even on the radar screen. He drew 700 people in Ohio, and Palin drew over 10,000 in New Mexico.

I know you hate her, but Palin is clearly a very attractive candidate to a lot of people. She's second only to Obama in star power in American politics today.


Who are these press people you speak of? No one I've heard has made any such claims.

CBS News: (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4531447.shtml?source=search_story)

Palin Becomes Increasingly Accessible To The National Media

It was less than two weeks ago when Sarah Palin astonished her traveling press corps by lifting the curtain (literally) and journeying to the back of her campaign plane to answer reporters’ questions for the first time after 40 days on the campaign trail. But the candidate who has been criticized for having a bunker mentality when it came to the national media can now lay legitimate claim to being more accessible than either Joe Biden or Barack Obama.

In the past two days alone, Palin has answered questions from her national press corps on three separate occasions. On Saturday, she held another plane availability, and on Sunday, she offered an impromptu press conference on the tarmac upon landing in Colorado Springs. A few minutes later, she answered even more questions from reporters during an off-the-record stop at a local ice cream shop.

By contrast, Biden hasn’t held a press conference in more than a month, and Obama hasn’t taken questions from his full traveling press corps since the end of September. John McCain—who spent most of the primary season holding what seemed like one, never-ending media availability—hasn’t done one since Sept. 23.

Though she often turns the “mainstream media” into a punching bag on the stump, Palin clearly enjoys interacting with reporters. She seems to relish the opportunity to demonstrate that her breadth of knowledge far exceeds what she offered to CBS News’ Katie Couric in a series of interviews that were marked by vague, often convoluted answers to straightforward questions.

[Discordia]

Having more people dislike you than like you isn't really the usual definition of "popular" Sam. That the people who like her really like her doesn't change that.

"Best speech in decades"? Thanks for the laugh.

[askeptic]

Despite all the talk about Sarah Palin energizing the Republican base, the new Newsweek poll seems to suggest that by this point the base would rather have somebody else, if given the chance.

Check out this question asked of Republicans, looking ahead to the 2012 election:

If John McCain is not elected president, which one of the following three possible candidates would you be most likely to support for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012?
Mitt Romney 35%
Mike Huckabee 26%
Sarah Palin 20%
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/poll_palin_hasnt_done_herself.php


Looks like most republicans do not agree with you Sam. And when you said no major gaffes you clearly forgot "FruitFlyGate" that is pretty major in a lot of peoples books, especially given how much time she had to get it right. It was not an off the cuff remark or a "Gotcha question" but a prepared speach on the topic of her choice.

[DSeid]

Well she may at least survive as governor in Alaska. So far, according to her home town paper (http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/10/23/breaking_news/doc49014e83c4e9d027708023.txt) her approval ratings are only modestly off.van Moore, owner of Ivan Moore Research, released new numbers Thursday showing Palin with a 64 percent positive rating and 33 percent negative rating in the state. The survey was conducted with 500 likely voters statewide and has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.4 percent. Moore said out of 500 surveys about 75 were conducted in the Mat-Su Valley.

Moore’s previous poll, taken before the Troopergate report was released, showed Palin’s rating at 64 percent positive and 30 percent negative.

“Given that the Branchflower report was made public on Oct. 10, followed by abuse of power headlines in newspapers on the 11th, it is perhaps surprising that Palin’s rating has remained quite as consistent as it has,” Moore said.

Still, yesterday’s rating is far lower than Palin’s January high of 82 percent favorable and 11 percent negative ...

... While 53 percent of those surveyed thought pressure was placed on Monegan to fire Wooten and 48 percent said Monegan was likely fired because of Wooten, only 34 percent thought an abuse of power occurred.

The numbers show that although many Alaskans feel the Palins put pressure on the Public Safety Department to fire Wooten, most feel there was no abuse of power in the process.

[Fish]

When Stephen Colbert had his run at the Presidency in South Carolina during the primaries, he reports that there were dozens upon dozens of political leeches willing to suck up to him: "You have a shot, baby, all the way the top, stick with me and we'll go far," and so forth. He said it was very disorienting. (This from what I read in Entertainment Weekly, about 1 month ago; an interview with Colbert and Jon Stewart.)

I think that Sarah Palin has surrounded herself with, or has become surrounded by, too many of those people. It is the same situation, I think, with W Bush — the echo chamber of yes-men, where every dumbass thing you say is brilliant and every crowd is hand-picked to cheer your every word.

[5-HT]

Every time Palin has gone out and done things her own way, it's worked.


I don't know about that. In her two hockey appearances, she was loudly boo'd in Philadelphia(who could have seen that coming?) and her carpet injured the goalie in St. Louis. Why anyone thought her dropping the puck in Philly was a good plan, i have no idea. They boo everyone.

Obviously, the injured goalie wasn't really her fault, but over on the HF(hockey fanatics) message board, there's a thread titled "The Palin Curse".

[5-HT]

She did? She was a stick, who hardly did a thing. People do tune in to gawk at her, but that doesn't mean she pleased them. SNL was a total bust for her.


I only saw her most recent appearance, but in that one you are absolutely correct. In the first skit, she just stood there while Alec Baldwin made jokes, and in the second she just sat there while Amy Poehler rapped(quite impressively I might add).

[Measure for Measure]

Palin's not the problem. The problem is that McCain has no philosophy or plan beyond being a 'Maverick'. So he's been all over the map, throwing out ideas left and right, and generally having an incoherent message. He blew it badly in his response to the financial crisis... I agree that McCain is incoherent, but believe that this papers over a deeper problem. I also agree with Palin that she was used poorly. She knows where her strength is, and it's out mixing it up, talking to local reporters, campaigning on the ground, and being herself.

...high profile interviews that neutralized her strengths (her personality, her drive, her charisma), and emphasized her weaknesses (her knowledge of policy). Palin is world-class with presentation and awful on policy knowledge and followup questions. I think she has a bright future in Hollywood and the lecture circuit and there's nothing wrong with that. I doubt whether she will buckle down and try to become a policy wonk, and I doubt whether that would be a good idea anyway. Her strengths are considerable within the right career path.

Re: "Mixing it up..."

After the campaign Sam, do you believe that she will become a regular on the Sunday talk shows without making an ass out of herself? Will she ever be in a position where she has to give a wide-ranging press conference? (These are real questions, btw: I doubt whether she has experienced a tough press conference, but I very well might be wrong on this point.)

[pepperlandgirl]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/poll_palin_hasnt_done_herself.php


Looks like most republicans do not agree with you Sam. And when you said no major gaffes you clearly forgot "FruitFlyGate" that is pretty major in a lot of peoples books, especially given how much time she had to get it right. It was not an off the cuff remark or a "Gotcha question" but a prepared speach on the topic of her choice.

No kidding. She truly revealed the depths of her ignorance with that comment. I can forgive "Joe Sixpack" not understanding how important the fruit fly research is, but a person giving a policy speech? How do the Palin faithful spin that? How is deriding research that could lead to treatment of autism justifiable?

At any rate, Palin actually doesn't know better than her handlers. They told her "don't bring up the 150K wardrobe! The story is finally dying!" So what does she do? Bring up the fucking clothes today in a speech.

Ensuring that news of the Republican National Committee's sartorial spending spree will remain in the headlines for at least one more news cycle, Sarah Palin on Sunday sounded off on the $150,000 wardrobe that was purchased for her in September, denouncing the report as "ridiculous" and declaring emphatically: "Those clothes, they are not my property."

A senior adviser to John McCain told CNN's Dana Bash that the comments about her wardrobe "were not the remarks we sent to her plane this morning." Palin did not discuss the wardrobe story at her rally in Kissimmee later in the day.

She's one politically savvy lady, you betcha! (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/26/palin-and-hasselbeck-blast-ridiculous-wardrobe-story/#more-26552)

[Measure for Measure]

I know someone who studied fruit flies. Drosophila (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drosophila) is used a lot in genetic research: I'm not surprised that there are studies relevant to autism.

Here's a nice directory devoted to Drosphila studies. (http://www.ceolas.org/fly/)

This is an interesting error. A person with long experience in Washington would know that Proxmire was criticized for singling out basic research: they might be a little more circumspect with such anecdotes. Someone who was well-read would also have familiarity with the sometimes nonintuitive nature of scientific research. Intelligence and experience complement one another of course but a surplus in one can also make up for a deficiency in the other.

[Sam Stone]

After the campaign Sam, do you believe that she will become a regular on the Sunday talk shows without making an ass out of herself? Will she ever be in a position where she has to give a wide-ranging press conference? (These are real questions, btw: I doubt whether she has experienced a tough press conference, but I very well might be wrong on this point.)

I think Palin has been made to look far worse than she is, because every question asked of her plays to her weaknesses and not her strengths. She's the governor of a state with an 11 billion dollar budget. She's had to make many tough decisions. Why isn't she asked about that? Why isn't she asked about her decision-making in brokering the pipeline deal? Why isn't she asked about her going after her own party in rooting out corruption?

Answer: Because she would actually sound smart and competent if she were discoussing issues that make up her core competency.

Palin is plenty smart. Her problem is that her efforts have been focused almost exclusively inside Alaska, and she just doesn't know much about Washington and the wider world of politics. They tried to hide her away, cram it all into her, and then turn her into a typical wonkish campaigner. That was a huge mistake. She should have been up-front right from the beginning, saying "I'm an outsider. I'm new to the Washington game. So no, I'm not going to be able to tell you what bill #HR801 was, who signed it, and what the significant issues behind it were. What I'm bringing to Washington is an outsider's perspective. And unless you're really happy with the job Washington's been doing, perhaps you'll agree with me that an outsider's perspective is just what's needed right now."

If asked questions about foreign policy, she should have said, "My focus is gong to be on reforming the way things are done and working on energy policy. In the meantime, I'll be learning foreign policy from the master, John McCain."

If asked if she was ready to step in as President, she should have simply said, "If, God forbid, something should happen to President McCain, I will have the benefit of stepping into his shoes with a cabinet that he selected, surrounded by people of quality and with a functioning administration already in place. Under those circumstances, I will do what any good executive does - seek the council of those around her and delegate authority as necessary. As Governor of Alaska, I assembled a strong team, gave them the latitude they needed to do their jobs, but took responsibility for their actions. A president is no different. Under those circumstances, of course I would be ready. A luxury Barack Obama would not have, by the way. What is it about his record that suggests to you that he's capable of running the executive branch? What evidence do you have that he's capable of assembly a strong team for the White House? What kind of a judge of character is he? What is there in his record that suggests he knows how to choose the hundreds of people that go into a functioning executive office? You can look at my record and judge for yourself."

In other words, she should have played up her strengths, acknowledged her weaknesses, and then studied like hell. Instead, they tried to make her one of the insider boys, and she failed miserably at it.

[Fish]

Why isn't she asked about that? Why isn't she asked about her decision-making in brokering the pipeline deal?
Turns out asking her about the pipeline (http://money.netscape.cnn.com/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1131&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20081026%2F0415434847.htm&sc=1131) isn't a good idea either.

But in general, you're right, Sam... they tried to remake Palin. I've always said that what the Republican Party was looking for in a VP candidate was a relative unknown with no downside, someone upon whose canvas they could paint anything they wanted. Someone, in short, who would shut up and recite the lines she was given. They didn't get that.

[DragonAsh]

I think Palin has been made to look far worse than she is, because

<SNIP>


Wow. So that's what happens when someone drinks too much Kool Aid.

Just my opinion, but dude, she isn't 'plenty smart'. Everything I've seen/read about her screams 'I'm an insecure control freak with an ego problem'. We all know the type, we've had them as coaches or teachers or bosses.

You don't get to be governor of a state by being slow - she clearly has a sharp sense of timing and looks to be clever at manipulating people - her 'gosh' and winks and finger snaps during her debate and interviews are all dead-giveaways of someone who manipulates instead of reasoning. With her, loyalty isn't something deserved or earned - it's a bitchstick used to smack people around.

But don't equate being clever at manipulating people to being anything resembling 'smart'. She has shown no sign of curiousity about the world around her. She believes in creationism, for cryin' out loud. So yes, she's dumber than a box of rocks, and no doubt has found it frustrating that mainstream media - slightly more sophisticated than those up there in Moosepaw County Alaska (where I've lived, BTW) hasn't warmed to her like everyone else around her always has.

[Little Nemo]

I think Palin has been made to look far worse than she is, because every question asked of her plays to her weaknesses and not her strengths. She's the governor of a state with an 11 billion dollar budget. She's had to make many tough decisions. Why isn't she asked about that? Why isn't she asked about her decision-making in brokering the pipeline deal? Why isn't she asked about her going after her own party in rooting out corruption?

Answer: Because she would actually sound smart and competent if she were discoussing issues that make up her core competency.

Palin is plenty smart. Her problem is that her efforts have been focused almost exclusively inside Alaska, and she just doesn't know much about Washington and the wider world of politics. They tried to hide her away, cram it all into her, and then turn her into a typical wonkish campaigner. That was a huge mistake. She should have been up-front right from the beginning, saying "I'm an outsider. I'm new to the Washington game. So no, I'm not going to be able to tell you what bill #HR801 was, who signed it, and what the significant issues behind it were. What I'm bringing to Washington is an outsider's perspective. And unless you're really happy with the job Washington's been doing, perhaps you'll agree with me that an outsider's perspective is just what's needed right now."

If asked questions about foreign policy, she should have said, "My focus is gong to be on reforming the way things are done and working on energy policy. In the meantime, I'll be learning foreign policy from the master, John McCain."

If asked if she was ready to step in as President, she should have simply said, "If, God forbid, something should happen to President McCain, I will have the benefit of stepping into his shoes with a cabinet that he selected, surrounded by people of quality and with a functioning administration already in place. Under those circumstances, I will do what any good executive does - seek the council of those around her and delegate authority as necessary. As Governor of Alaska, I assembled a strong team, gave them the latitude they needed to do their jobs, but took responsibility for their actions. A president is no different. Under those circumstances, of course I would be ready. A luxury Barack Obama would not have, by the way. What is it about his record that suggests to you that he's capable of running the executive branch? What evidence do you have that he's capable of assembly a strong team for the White House? What kind of a judge of character is he? What is there in his record that suggests he knows how to choose the hundreds of people that go into a functioning executive office? You can look at my record and judge for yourself."

In other words, she should have played up her strengths, acknowledged her weaknesses, and then studied like hell. Instead, they tried to make her one of the insider boys, and she failed miserably at it.Sorry, Sam, most of us are seeing the same thing as you. But we're not seeing these things as strengths.

Stop boo-hooing that the media isn't treating her fairly. It's her job to get her message out not the media's to find it for her. If she can't manage the campaign for office, she won't be able to manage the office itself.

And most of us don't see ignorance of national politics as an asset in somebody who wants to be in charge of national politics. The Vice Presidency is not a trainee program and the President is too busy doing his own job to spend hours each day mentoring his Vice President.

It's what we've been saying all along: Sarah Palin is not qualified to be President. She doesn't know the job. And anyone who isn't ready to be President - from Day One - has no business running for Vice President.

[Prelude to Fascination]

Her problem is that her efforts have been focused almost exclusively inside Alaska, and she just doesn't know much about Washington and the wider world of politics.
Out of your entire post, this is the one bit I really have a problem with. Doesn't it make sense that someone who's going to be dealing with the wider world of politics, hell, the wider world by any definition, know something about Washington, and the wider world?

That doesn't necessarily mean she has to be a Washington insider, but she should have an interest in what goes on in the world if she's going to play the big stage. Her comments have shown she really doesn't have much of an interest in the world at large (not being able, in the Couric interview, to cite a newspaper or magazine she reads -- instead, she said "All of them", or words to that effect).

She was ill-prepared (but ambitious as hell) to begin with, then was mishandled by the McCain camp from the get-go. If McCain loses, I for one won't pin all the blame on her (McCain sure as hell deserves his share), but she needs to take her share of blame as well.

[mswas]

This article suggests that Romney campaigners within the McCain campaign are spreading the rumors of a split between Palin and McCain in order to discredit Palin and give Romney a chance to run in 2012.

http://spectator.org/archives/2008/10/27/post-defeat-planners

[Knorf]

I think Palin has been made to look far worse than she is, because every question asked of her plays to her weaknesses and not her strengths...
Palin is plenty smart. Her problem is that her efforts have been focused almost exclusively inside Alaska, and she just doesn't know much about Washington and the wider world of politics.
Explain how someone in this position is qualified to be VP? I feel very certain that if she were Democrat with the same credentials, you'd be excoriating her.
She should have been...
...she should have said...
...she should have simply said...
...she should have...
That's a lot of "shoulds." Very few "dids."

Blaming her "handlers" is simply proof that she is not a leader, and is not prepared to be VP in any regard. The blame game is one played by losers. Palin is a loser.

[askeptic]

I feel very certain that if she were Democrat with the same credentials, you'd be excoriating her.




Gee, ya think? Just like if Biden had claimed to control the senate Bricker would have been all over it with cites and shi..stuff.

[ITR champion]

I have absolutely nothing constructive to contribute to this debate, but I want to ask one question. Did anyone else, upon hearing of Palin "breaking away from her handlers", get an image of her as a gorilla escaping from the circus and going on a rampage?

[Bosstone]

I have absolutely nothing constructive to contribute to this debate, but I want to ask one question. Did anyone else, upon hearing of Palin "breaking away from her handlers", get an image of her as a gorilla escaping from the circus and going on a rampage?You're not the first, although it wasn't about Palin. One of Lewis Black's funniest bits (http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/06/quote-of-day-how-do-we-reduce-lewis.html) (it's the part in bold).

[jsgoddess]

I'm reminded of these quotes:

"Lookit, I've done it their way this far and now it's my turn. I'm my own handler. Any questions? Ask me ... There's not going to be any more handler stories because I'm the handler ... I'm Doctor Spin."

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican."

"Certainly, I know what to do, and when I am Vice President -- and I will be -- there will be contingency plans under different sets of situations and I tell you what, I'm not going to go out and hold a news conference about it. I'm going to put it in a safe and keep it there! Does that answer your question?"

"It's rural America. It's where I came from. We always refer to ourselves as real America. Rural America, real America, real, real, America."

--Dan Quayle

[rocking chair]

I have absolutely nothing constructive to contribute to this debate, but I want to ask one question. Did anyone else, upon hearing of Palin "breaking away from her handlers", get an image of her as a gorilla escaping from the circus and going on a rampage?


i prefer rogue elephant. although she has been seen wearing the other teams logo.....

[MovieMogul]

Mike Allen (http://www.politico.com/playbook/1008/playbook476.html) from Politico claims a top McCain adviser called Palin a "whack job".

[BJMoose]

From the cite above:
Gov. Palin, to Fox's SEAN HANNITY on "Hannity & Colmes": "I think it's very close, and I think there is a lot of enthusiasm. ... John and I have both been in that underdog position over and over again. And you know what? I, in my career, happen to take on the good old boy network more than once. Having the scars to prove it. Being in the underdog position, it motivates us. Makes us work harder. And I believe that yes, the wisdom of the people will prevail on Nov. 4.”

The last sentence certainly is right, tho' not in the way she imagines.

How can anyone look at this and not conclude that it was spoken by a clueless twit? McCain just plain screwed the pooch in picking her, and there was no way the handlers assigned to her could ever make a silk purse out of that moose ear.


I'll let someone else comment on her fondness for "The Underdog Position." :eek:

[Fiddle Peghead]

I think it's more likely she's working getting her TV career going. I can't see her given the choice of POTUS or unlimited opportunity to make money and bask in the adulation of the ignorant taking the hard road.

Nah. After McCain-Palin lose the election, she will end up in radio. She would be a natural: an empty-headed, loudmouth, lying, right-wing radio commentator who would fit in quite nicely with Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, et. al. Mark my words.

[jsgoddess]

Nah. After McCain-Palin lose the election, she will end up in radio. She would be a natural: an empty-headed, loudmouth, lying, right-wing radio commentator who would fit in quite nicely with Limbaugh, Hannity, Ingraham, et. al. Mark my words.

B-b-b-but her VOICE. It's AWFUL.

I can't think of any radio personality with a voice that bad.

[Little Nemo]

And I believe that yes, the wisdom of the people will prevail on Nov. 4.On this, Governor Palin and I agree.

[Measure for Measure]

Ok, so Palin knows all about Alaskan politics, but hasn't been asked about these things, so the public can't tell how much she knows about Alaskan politics.

Sheesh.

My understanding is that her gubernatorial debates were cram-fests as well. But since governors operate on a much narrower issue base than Presidents, it wasn't as obvious. Let's not forget that she claimed that Alaska provides 20 percent of US energy (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/energetically_wrong.html), when the real figure is in the 2-4% range.

Perhaps Palin is an authority on nothing.

For whatever reason, Palin has been a net drag on the campaign, though she has energized part of the base. The Republican candidate for Governor or Indiana (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/240698.php) considers her toxic, though he has a comfortable lead in the polls. Also, "Of the 70 odd conservative politicians, pundits and newspapers that have turned from McCain to endorse Obama this fall, 38 of them have cited Palin as a significant contributor to the decision." Relevant quotes here (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/fullpage/the-palin-effec.php).

I admit that it's possible that the McCain campaign mishandled Palin. But frankly I'm guessing that the pros know what they're doing and that Robert Draper (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/240539.php) has it right A couple of McCain higher-ups have told me that Palin simply knew nothing about national and international issues. Which meant, as one such adviser said to me: 'Letting Sarah be Sarah may not be such a good thing.' h/t TPM

[Measure for Measure]

It's been said that Palin likes mixing it up with reporters. That may well be the case.

But for a Des Moines TV station, Palin agreed to be interviewed for about 5 minutes, only if the reporter would "submit which topics we wanted to discuss ahead of time which is not standard procedure." (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_10/015392.php)

The exchange turned out to be a fairly boring recital of talking points.

In Maine, she would only agree to an interview if the campaign was allowed to pick the reporter.

I make no secret of my belief that Palin is wholly unqualified for the Presidency. But don't take my word for it: the restrictions that they put on her reveal that the McCain campaign is in agreement. Surely it's reasonable to expect a President to be able to handle a press conference or a Sunday talk show. If Palin can't handle Tom Brokaw, why does anybody think that she could face off against Putin, Hu Jintao or Kim Jung Il?

[Fish]

That merely cements in my own mind that Palin was a short-sighted pick, where the goal was to get elected, rather than a long-term pick to be a good Vice President.

[Little Nemo]

But for a Des Moines TV station, Palin agreed to be interviewed for about 5 minutes, only if the reporter would "submit which topics we wanted to discuss ahead of time which is not standard procedure."

The exchange turned out to be a fairly boring recital of talking points.

In Maine, she would only agree to an interview if the campaign was allowed to pick the reporter.Maybe this is her plan for foreign affairs as well. She will handle an international crisis - but she gets to pick the crisis and country.

[jsgoddess]

Maybe this is her plan for foreign affairs as well. She will handle an international crisis - but she gets to pick the crisis and country.

I'm so in.

I pick Tahiti's terrible terrible lack of tourists crisis! I will go oversee that myself!