NFL Week 8

[dalej42]

So far, I'm very impressed by the Arizona Cardinals this week. Winning 10-0 against Carolina on the road and in the Eastern time zone.

[SenorBeef]

The Browns are apparently better without Winslow. Great.

[Hamlet]

I keep thinking that Martz will realize that O'Sullivan is a turnover machine that costs the 49ers more games than he will ever win, AND that he has a Pro Bowl caliber runningback who should carry the ball a ton more. Fuck his "genius", he's a dipshit.

Luckily, I'm not a 49er fan.

[Telemark]

Wow, there are some killer hits in the Pittsburg/NYG game. Ouch.

[Roland Orzabal]

And, of course, the Chargers continue their proud long-standing tradition of losing on the last drive with one second left on the clock. I swear these boys are going to give me a heart attack before the season is out.

[Armchair Norv]

Rivers, calm the hell down on the screens. Also, quit throwing deep into triple coverage...Jackson's usually good for it, but that shit is dangerous (lesson learned today, I hope). D-line, get some pressure going; Brees had all day on nearly every passing down. Backs and safeties, cover somebody. I don't care who; pick an eligible receiver and stick to him...WAY too many catches with no defenders within 5 yards. Finally, all of you, knock it off with the dumbass penalties. Two delay-of-games, excessive celebration, unsportsmanlike for a totally unnecessary shove of Brees; this stuff loses games. We're better than that.

[/AN]

And on top of that, I had to watch Washington AND Dallas win. This has not been a good day.

[kidchameleon]

The Cowboy's new punter can really put a lick on a returner.

[kidchameleon]

Eli needs to stop listening to Chris Webber.

[Bearflag70]

The Cowboy's new punter can really put a lick on a returner.

That was sweet

[Bearflag70]

The Cowboy's new punter can really put a lick on a returner.

Click on the little picture of the punter (#2 on the jersey)

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29633&season=2008&displayPage=tab_gamecenter

:D

[Jman]

The Steelers are giving this game away...making me sick.

[dalej42]

The Steelers are giving this game away...making me sick.

You mean they've turned into the Arizona Cardinals?

[Southern Yankee]

I was at the Panthers-Cardinals game. Great game. The Cardinals look good, but the Panthers have something special going on this year. They're getting the breaks when they need them (Beason's interception to stop a drive that look destined for a TD as an example.) Warner was moving them down field at will. Fitzgerald is a beast and I was really impressed with Boldin coming back so soon and playing so fearlessly. Just a great all around game to see live.

[Osip]

How many people think Edge is going to be back next year in Arizona?
He once again started grumbling about getting more carries, then, the next game comes he coughs up a fumble what very well might have cost Arizona the game. Remember the Bears game two years ago? yeah James Coughed one up then as well.

I have to say it was a damn fine game to watch. With the 49ers and Rams getting beat 'Zona still have a nice lead in the NFC West.

[Ellis Dee]

That was sweetYeah, you gotta love that.

[dalej42]

I was at the Panthers-Cardinals game. Great game. The Cardinals look good, but the Panthers have something special going on this year. They're getting the breaks when they need them (Beason's interception to stop a drive that look destined for a TD as an example.) Warner was moving them down field at will. Fitzgerald is a beast and I was really impressed with Boldin coming back so soon and playing so fearlessly. Just a great all around game to see live.

Of course, a dumb fake field goal and a missed extra point also helped the Panthers.

[dalej42]

How many people think Edge is going to be back next year in Arizona?
He once again started grumbling about getting more carries, then, the next game comes he coughs up a fumble what very well might have cost Arizona the game. Remember the Bears game two years ago? yeah James Coughed one up then as well.

I have to say it was a damn fine game to watch. With the 49ers and Rams getting beat 'Zona still have a nice lead in the NFC West.

I doubt Edge is back next year. The Cards need to do everything they can to get home field advantage for at least one game in the playoffs as this team always struggles on the East coast. I'm also anxious to see if Boldin is back next season. Somehow, I think the offseason will bring back the contract complaints.

[Osip]

Oh "zona is going to have off season problems. Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, and Wilson all needing to have their contracts addressed.

Fitz might be the WR who makes the spectacular catched, but Boldin is the heart of the team, I would really hate to see him go. With the other Wrs stepping up and playing well, I fear Boldin will be dangled as trade.

Edge is easier to replace, he is a solid back when given the rock repeatedly, but Hightower and Arrington are home grown and doing reasonably well.


Osip

[Really Not All That Bright]

Oh "zona is going to have off season problems. Boldin, Dockett, Dansby, and Wilson all needing to have their contracts addressed.

Fitz might be the WR who makes the spectacular catched, but Boldin is the heart of the team, I would really hate to see him go. With the other Wrs stepping up and playing well, I fear Boldin will be dangled as trade.

Edge is easier to replace, he is a solid back when given the rock repeatedly, but Hightower and Arrington are home grown and doing reasonably well.


Osip
Hightower is averaging 2.7 yards per carry. With defenses totally unable to stack the box, he should be doing a whole lot better. Obviously, Edge isn't doing any better, but he's 30 years old.

The anticipated crop of free agent tailbacks for next year is horrible:

J.J. Arrington, UFA, Arizona Cardinals
Correll Buckhalter, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Jesse Chatman, UFA, New York Jets
Heath Evans, UFA, New England Patriots
Ryan Moats, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Maurice Morris, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Darren Sproles, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Aaron Stecker, UFA, New Orleans Saints
Ricky Williams, UFA, Miami Dolphins

Brandon Jacobs is in the last year of his contract, but I think we all know he's getting re-signed. I think Edge, Thomas Jones and Larry Johnson will all be released or traded, but I don't think the Cards can take on Johnson's contract and obviously they're not likely to go after Jones.

IOW, better hope they can draft a good one. C.J. Spiller, maybe?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Forgot to add:

I'm not sure it's worth holding onto Boldin. If Warner stays for another year, then sure, but otherwise, you're going to have two premier wideouts and an excellent #3 (Breaston, who's looked like a future star this year) with nobody to throw them the ball. Leinart is just not going to get it done.

[Ellis Dee]

I don't understand why you'd even want a free agent RB with any mileage on him. Just use a late-round draft pick.

[Osip]

Hightower is averaging 2.7 yards per carry. With defenses totally unable to stack the box, he should be doing a whole lot better. Obviously, Edge isn't doing any better, but he's 30 years old.


Arizona's O-line is just not that good at run blocking, Watching Hightower in action is another thing, He picks pretty good lanes, runs hard, has nice hands out of the backfield and does well in pass protection.

Arizona has not really needed to run the ball having an amazing passing game.
They can get in the playoffs but, unless they can run it well they will not get to far.
Warner has been fun to watch and is good to see him playing like he did in '99.
I liked watching him then and I am glad to see his career is ending on a higher note than his lackluster time with the Giants.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I don't understand why you'd even want a free agent RB with any mileage on him. Just use a late-round draft pick.
Assuming you can sign a vet for the same price, and you need him to play right now (as the Cards will, since they're certain to release Edge), the vet will almost certainly be much better in pass protection than a rookie.

Plus, it's not as though there aren't good backs available in free agency- LaMont Jordan was a beast in Oakland when he was healthy, and Michael Turner looks to have been the best free agent signing this season by about a mile.

Anyway, you can't just stick any old rookie back in your lineup and expect him to go for a thousand yards unless you're the Broncos. Personally, I think tailback and O-line are the best places to spend your first-round picks (in terms of avoiding busts), especially compared to other positions on offense.

[Ellis Dee]

Assuming you can sign a vet for the same price, and you need him to play right now (as the Cards will, since they're certain to release Edge), the vet will almost certainly be much better in pass protection than a rookie.Great point.Anyway, you can't just stick any old rookie back in your lineup and expect him to go for a thousand yards unless you're the Broncos. Personally, I think tailback and O-line are the best places to spend your first-round picks (in terms of avoiding busts), especially compared to other positions on offense.Or the Giants, who don't have any back that was drafted on the first day. IIRC, in order of the depth chart they were drafted in the 4th, 7th, 7th, and 6th rounds. (Rookie Danny Ware looks as good as Ahmad Bradshaw.) Hell, Tiki was 2nd rounder. The last 1st round pick the Giants spent on a RB was Ron Dayne, and look how well that worked out.

I wouldn't ever draft a RB in the first round simply because the dropoff isn't much if you wait until the second day, and doing so eliminates the kind of crippling risk you take by wasting a top pick on a bust. (Cedric Benson, or Ryan Grant? #4 overall, 7th rounder. Hmmm...)

[Really Not All That Bright]

I wouldn't ever draft a RB in the first round simply because the dropoff isn't much if you wait until the second day, and doing so eliminates the kind of crippling risk you take by wasting a top pick on a bust. (Cedric Benson, or Ryan Grant? #4 overall, 7th rounder. Hmmm...)
Yes, but for every Benson there's a Cadillac Williams and a Ronnie Brown... but for every Ryan Grant there are a dozen DeAndra Cobbs.

[Really Not All That Bright]

If you look at the 2007 rushing yardage leaders, the list is dominated by first-rounders in a way that no other statistic is. Tomlinson, Peterson, McGahee, Jamal Lewis, Edge, Thomas Jones, Frank Gore, Joseph Addai, Marshawn Lynch, Stephen Jackson, Laurence Maroney, Warrick Dunn, DeAngelo Williams, Shaun Alexander, Fred Taylor, Maurice Jones-Drew, Ron Dayne, Cedric Benson... all first rounders. Only 13 of the top 32 were not first rounders, and most of the rest (Portis, LenDale White, Frank Gore, Travis Henry, DeShaun Foster, Westbrook) were drafted in the second or third rounds.

Contrast that with passers or wideouts and see where your pick is better spent (if not on a lineman)

[Ellis Dee]

Interesting. Nice argument.

[garygnu]

...Contrast that with passers or wideouts and see where your pick is better spent (if not on a lineman)
I did a quick survey a few weeks ago of starting QBs and (at the time) 14 of the 32 were first round picks.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I did a quick survey a few weeks ago of starting QBs and (at the time) 14 of the 32 were first round picks.
I just did an even quicker survey of the starting QBs right now and got the same number you did, if you count Vince Young, Carson Palmer and the rookies (Flacco and Ryan).

Significantly less than 19 of 32 rushing leaders. Alternatively, we can look at the 32 passing leaders by yardage from last year, to keep our samples "balanced"- then the number is just 13 first-rounders. Notably, only three of the top ten were first rounders, which I found quite eye-opening (Peyton, Carson Palmer and Jay Cutler).

To take it a step further, we'll do receivers... 6 of the top 10, 3 of the next ten (who were all tight ends!), and 5 of the next 12, for a total of 14 first rounders among the top 32. Pretty similar numbers to the QBs.

Oddly enough, removing tight ends, since 3 of the top 4 receiving TEs were first rounders (Gonzalez, Witten, Winslow - Gates is the other one), the number of first round wideouts only who are in the top 32 in receiving yards is also 14.

Thus, I think it's fair to say that if you're going to invest your first round pick at an offensive skill position, running back is the way to go.

[JSexton]

As my third WR, should I start Steve Smith (at home versus Dallas) or Nate Washington (at Redskins)?

[Really Not All That Bright]

This is the non-fantasy thread I think... but Nate Washington.

[kidchameleon]

This is the non-fantasy thread I think... but Nate Washington.

I'd wait until the last minute to see if Plex or Holmes gets in any more trouble first.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I'd wait until the last minute to see if Plex or Holmes gets in any more trouble first.
I don't think it matters. Smith didn't do that much when Plax was out against Seattle - Hixon picked up the slack - but Washington did fine the last few weeks even when Holmes was in the lineup. I say Washington because I think both will catch 3-6 passes regardless of whether they start, but Washington's 3-6 have the potential to be for 150 yards and Smith's don't.

[Osip]

I did a quick survey a few weeks ago of starting QBs and (at the time) 14 of the 32 were first round picks.

Out of curiosity how many are still with the team that drafted them?
I know Collins in Tennesse was drafted by Carolina.
Pennington was drafted by the Jets (he was a 1st rounder right?)

Just curious, it seems any first rounder QB labeled as a bust, gets a backup job somewhere.

Heck Ryan Leaf got a second shot in Seattle

Osip

[garygnu]

Out of curiosity how many are still with the team that drafted them?
...
Quite a few, actually. Jason Campbell, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Rothlisburger, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer. I'd probably count Eli Manning, too, ignoring the technicalities. Then there's the rookies, Matt Ryan and Flacco. That's 11 currently.

[Osip]

Quite a few, actually. Jason Campbell, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Philip Rivers, Ben Rothlisburger, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer. I'd probably count Eli Manning, too, ignoring the technicalities. Then there's the rookies, Matt Ryan and Flacco. That's 11 currently.

Oh I think Rivers and Eli Manning are with their original teams, even though they were traded for each other, neither had their original contract with a team other than the one they are currently on.

Guess it is just two retread first rounders out there. Three if Eli goes down and Carr gets a few starts in.