Promiscuous sexual activity--necessarily damaging to women?

[Freudian Slit]

I was going through old threads today, and I came across one about a guy who walked in on his stepdaughter giving her boyfriend a blow job (she was thirteen). A lot of dopers said it was important to teach her that giving blow jobs to lots of guys is degrading, one doper said she found out that a friend of hers in eighth grade was giving blow jobs to lots of guys on the football team and didn't respect her, etc. Obviously things are different since we're talking about a 13 year old here, but do you guys think this changes for older people?

I mean, any activity that is participated in with full consent of all parties is fine...is it necessarily degrading, though?

[sunacres]

No.

[Der Trihs]

I mean, any activity that is participated in with full consent of all parties is fine...is it necessarily degrading, though?No. It's only degrading if the participants look at as such. Rather like rape; the difference between rape and rough sex is that the recipient of the latter consents to and wants it. In the same way, something is only degrading if it makes you feel degraded.

Personally, I find the whole premise insulting. It seems based on the idea that either men are all disgusting scum who corrupt women with their touch, or that female sexual desire is innately degrading, or both.

[Moirai]

Nope, it's not, in and of itself. If a girl is being exploited, then sure. But some of us just like fucking.

[Freudian Slit]

Yeah, I didn't think so either. I think a lot of those people seemed to be emphasizing that girls in high school giving guys lots of blow jobs without getting anything in return is demeaning, but then again, lots of girls (and guys) like giving blow jobs, so I don't think that's in and of itself bad. I went through a phase where I was doing a lot of that to random guys, and a lot of my friends questioned my motives, wondering what I was getting out of it...so I guess that attitude *is* still around.

[Cat Fight]

Of course it's not necessarily damaging to women, but the girl in the OP is hardly a woman. I think the feeling is that there are so many high school girls with low self esteem and so many inexperienced, cocky boys with no plan to reciprocate that the chance of a sexual experience being satisfying for the girl in question is slim (I know, I know, I'll soon be told of countless Dopers' happy teen sexcapades).

I do think it changes as a woman ages (in part because she has more chances to screw out of her social circle), but I'm not sure much has changed in general. Have a female friend announce she did the whole football team and a male friend announce he screwed every cheerleader in his school. I'm pretty sure most people's reactions to both would still be quite different.

[AHunter3]

Not too many years ago the question of my niece's sexual activity or lack thereof somehow came up in conversation and I said then that I was fine with her screwing the brains out of every guy on the football team, if she was doing it for her own reasons and pleasure and not to be accepted, liked, or in response to intimidation or something.

I'll stick with that.

[Telcontar]

Humans are...diverse creatures. For the "normal" (by which i mean average) human male or female, massive promiscuity is probably a sign of trouble in a mental health sense: Low self esteem, depression, self destructive behavior, etc etc etc. My feeling is that the real answer to "do you actually want to be doing this" would be "no." I'd be very worried if I saw it in a teenage child of mine, or a like aged friend.

If someone past 20ish wants to claim that they're an exception, however, and said person isn't showing obvious ill effects (basically something from the DSM or self reported displeasure with their own behavior), I'm happy to believe them. I'm not especially likely to date them, of course, but I doubt that will come as too great a disappointment :).

This could easily turn into a discussion of sexual fetishes. a fair chunk of BDSM involves treatment that is degrading in every sense (degrading but consensual, which is huge). Like promiscuity, it walks the line between "wrong/potentially unhealthy for most people" and "wonderful for some people." That's probably why the best books on BDSM seem to talk so much about safeguarding mental health.

[Whack-a-Mole]

I was talking to a reformed alcoholic friend of mine and mentioned I used to drink a lot (college) so why wasn't I an alcoholic? He said the important difference was not how much you drank but why you drank. I think that applies here too. If the woman is screwing for her own pleasure then I see no problems. If she is screwing for some other reason (low self esteem and such) then I think she may have issues she needs to resolve.

As noted above, some people just like fucking and more power to them. Personally I am all for all women being of this ilk. :)

[Tom Tildrum]

Humans are...diverse creatures. For the "normal" (by which i mean average) human male or female, massive promiscuity is probably a sign of trouble in a mental health sense: Low self esteem, depression, self destructive behavior, etc etc etc. My feeling is that the real answer to "do you actually want to be doing this" would be "no." I'd be very worried if I saw it in a teenage child of mine, or a like aged friend.

I had similar thoughts. It's not that the behavior is necessarily damaging in itself, but under certain circumstances, it may well be a symptom that some sort of damage is present.

[phil417]

I was part of the sexual revolution of the 1960's. "Free love" always meant that guys got what they wanted when they wanted it..we chicks lay down when they wanted. What did we want? Who cared? (We girls/women discussed it. It was always up to us to take care of birth control (relatively primitive back then) and sexually transmitted disease control.) And it was harder for a woman to find respect in a job back then, because if she thought for herself, and told a company's personnel she was a liberated woman, it was assumed: "liberated" not only meant liberated in an educated or attitude, but the "if she's liberated, she'll go down on me" mindset in the (mostly male) management of those times.

I'm not arguing the selfish gene theory..that is, that women want to have as many babies as possible to spread their genes, and that men want to have sex with as many women as possible to spread their genes.

I'm saying, as a woman & the mom of two girls, that it's important for a girl to keep herself for one man who'll treasure her as the person she is, & will let her treasure him as well. I've two daughters who treasure their husbands thus.

Love, Phil

[HappyClam]

Look, I know freedom of choice, yada yada, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's impossible for a high school girl to screw the entire football team simply for her own enjoyment. IMHO, It's always a little suspect when women just want to please men and get nothing in return. Yeah, sometimes it's better to give than receive... but not when the ratio becomes ridiculous.

[Yookeroo]

I think a lot depends one why the girl is being promiscuous. If it's due to self esteem, then, yeah, it's probably not healthy behavior. If it's because she just likes to fuck, more power to her. Considering the social pressures, I admire a girl who can embrace her inner slut.

[panache45]

It's not damaging to women if everyone involved is male.

[Justin Credible]

It's not damaging to women if everyone involved is male.

I laughed. :)

[FriarTed]

Sorry, I think promiscuous sexual activity is damaging to everyone.

[Hogwash]

It's not degrading when they're doing it to me. So yeah, always degrading.

[Der Trihs]

Sorry, I think promiscuous sexual activity is damaging to everyone.So . . . terrorists could cause harm to America just by coming over here and having lots of wild sex ?

"I do this . . . for ALLAH ! !"

* Leaps onto pile of naked women *

[DianaG]

My teen sexcapades were, in fact, overwhelmingly positive. That's because I was lucky enough to really, really like both sex and ME. I have a seventeen year old daughter who I don't worry about for the same reason. I'm sure she's having sex, and I'm equally sure it's on her terms.

It's all about the 'why', and of course the girl's age makes a difference. I indulge in plenty of sexual behavior that I would not reccomend to a 13 year old. I've never met a 13 year old with an insatiable desire for cock, but I've known plenty with an insatiable desire for attention.

Sex for it's own sake is not degrading. Sex as a bartering tool is.

[Maastricht]

Sorry, I think promiscuous sexual activity is damaging to everyone.Could you elaborate? Not snarky, genuinely curious.

[Sage Rat]

It's not inherently degrading.

The realities of the situation though are that the older the boyfriend is than the girl, the greater the odds that he's using her, and most girls seem to have their first sexual boyfriend be +4 or +5 years older, which then pretty well establishes the current standard that going down on a guy is an act of submission.

I wouldn't say to not give blowjobs, just to not go down on a guy unless he's going to go down on you as well.

[Freudian Slit]

Look, I know freedom of choice, yada yada, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's impossible for a high school girl to screw the entire football team simply for her own enjoyment. IMHO, It's always a little suspect when women just want to please men and get nothing in return. Yeah, sometimes it's better to give than receive... but not when the ratio becomes ridiculous.

Would you say it's ever possible for a woman to enjoy something like that? Like, maybe not a girl in high school but say someone who's eighteen or older screwing or orally servicing a large group of men? I'm thinking now of someone like Annabel Chong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabel_Chong) who was part of the world's largest gang bang. (A lot of people criticized her, too--I guess it is kind of creepy that she was actually gang raped prior to making the gang bang porn film.)

[DianaG]

I was part of the sexual revolution of the 1960's. "Free love" always meant that guys got what they wanted when they wanted it..we chicks lay down when they wanted. What did we want? Who cared? (We girls/women discussed it. It was always up to us to take care of birth control (relatively primitive back then) and sexually transmitted disease control.) And it was harder for a woman to find respect in a job back then, because if she thought for herself, and told a company's personnel she was a liberated woman, it was assumed: "liberated" not only meant liberated in an educated or attitude, but the "if she's liberated, she'll go down on me" mindset in the (mostly male) management of those times.
With all due respect, it's not the 60s anymore.

And I find the whole "What did we want? Who cared?" thing to be more than a little silly. It's up to YOU to care what you want, and to ask for it. THAT is what "liberated" is supposed to mean. If that's not what you got out of it, you were doing it wrong.

[Telcontar]

Would you say it's ever possible for a woman to enjoy something like that? Like, maybe not a girl in high school but say someone who's eighteen or older screwing or orally servicing a large group of men? I'm thinking now of someone like Annabel Chong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabel_Chong) who was part of the world's largest gang bang. (A lot of people criticized her, too--I guess it is kind of creepy that she was actually gang raped prior to making the gang bang porn film.)

It's in that vein that I brought up BDSM. There are a significant number of people who like taking part in sexual behavior that both they and others consider degrading, humiliating, and submissive. It took me awhile to really understand that, but it is certainly true of several people i know and the literature on the subject leads me to believe that they are not unique. I think the question you mean to be asking is less one of degradation than healthiness: is it always unhealthy for a woman (to use your initial example) to be a promiscuous slut?

In Annabel Chong's case I would be inclined to say "no" just based on numbers and the risk of STDs (also based on sex, men luck out STDwise in heterosexual activity). For the garden variety orgy, however, I could imagine a special sort of woman liking it for any number of reasons. and, if everyone involved is enjoying it and getting what they want out of it, I would have a hard time labeling it as unhealthy unless I had some specific reason to be especially paternalistic.

An orgy sets off my "weird!!!!" detector, of course, but I'm long past considering that a perfect indicator of much of anything except my personal preferences.

[Moirai]

I never slept with anyone where I didn't get something in return... even if it was "just" an orgasm. ;) But seriously- sex for fun was fun, sex in a committed relationship was emotionally fulfilling as well, drunk silly sex was, well, drunk and silly, etc.

YMMV, of course.

[accidentalyuppie]

It's not inherently degrading.

The realities of the situation though are that the older the boyfriend is than the girl, the greater the odds that he's using her, and most girls seem to have their first sexual boyfriend be +4 or +5 years older, which then pretty well establishes the current standard that going down on a guy is an act of submission.




i don't really agree. I think that a young girl might really like giving oral to lots of older guys but I think it would be a control thing, not a sex thing........ ....much in the same way that anorexic / bulimic behavoirs are often a way for a woman to prove that she has total control over something.

And as a full grown adult woman, I much prefer giving to receiving as well and I freely admit it is a control thing and I think that in an equal adult mutual relationship the "blower" is dominant and the "blowee" submissive.

[Illuminatiprimus]

You know giving a blowjob can be a reward just in itself, right?

I definitely agree with people saying that sex is fine as long as it's for the right reasons. I'm male (gay) and went through a phase where I was having a lot of sex (a different guy every day for a week) and eventually reached a point where I was having to ask why I was doing it because it was starting to feel like a chore, not fun. I think at that point it was definitely about self esteem and not enjoyment.

However that was then and this is now, and as much as I'm sleeping around a bit at the moment it's only when I want to and on my terms. If I had a daughter I would want to ensure she felt the same way, and would talk about it as much as was necessary to help her understand that sex shouldn't be used as an attention seeking device or a bargaining tool, and that a man who demands sex from you for affection isn't worth it.

[Cluricaun]

Sorry, I think promiscuous sexual activity is damaging to everyone.

You're doing it wrong.

[Der Trihs]

Sorry, I think promiscuous sexual activity is damaging to everyone.You're doing it wrong.Maybe it's the plutonium dildo ?

[Bridget Burke]

Would you say it's ever possible for a woman to enjoy something like that? Like, maybe not a girl in high school but say someone who's eighteen or older screwing or orally servicing a large group of men? I'm thinking now of someone like Annabel Chong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annabel_Chong) who was part of the world's largest gang bang. (A lot of people criticized her, too--I guess it is kind of creepy that she was actually gang raped prior to making the gang bang porn film.)

"Doing" the whole team wouldn't necessarily mean a gang bang situation. It could well mean lots of dates.

[CrazyCatLady]

Naw, promiscuity isn't damaging in and of itself. Sometimes it's perfectly healthy, and in the cases where it's not, I think it's more likely to be a symptom of issues like low self-esteem than their cause.

If I remember the cited thread correctly, the kid in question was giving blowjobs because she thought if she didn't boys wouldn't like her and nobody would go out with her--that in the dog-eat-dog world of 7th-grade society, she'd essentially be an outcast. That, imho, is not a healthy reason to be promiscuous. The idea that sex is the only reason for somebody to be with you, that you're not worth dating without it, does seem like a pretty damaging message for a woman to internalize.

[control-z]

I would think a 13 year old giving blowjobs is probably doing it to keep the attention of the boy. What physical pleasure is she getting out of it? She gives him blowjobs, she gets a boyfriend. It's sort of like she's prostituting herself for a perceived love connection. So yeah, IMO that's a little degrading.

[msmith537]

Please. The girl who goes around blowing the football team or banging half the guys in a fraternity house? No one respects her. She becomes a sort of laughing stock. Let me put it another way. For those people who think I'm a misogynist jerk, imagine 20 of me (but worse) sitting around the locker room comparing notes and laughing about where and how you blew us and tell me if you still feel good about yourself.


Even with older women (20s and 30s), there is often an air of desperation to them. They get drunk and sleep with guys they would often never associate with when sober. Often it is just because they are lonely or it gives them validation.

Truth is that it is very difficult for most women to be a real life Samantha Jones (Kim Catrell from Sex and the City). The reason for this is that very few women are truly financially independent and successful in their careers, have no real desire for long term committed relationships and can be as selective as Samantha, cherry picking good looking and/or wealthy men. Most of the women that I met are more like Carrie Bradshaw or Miranda. Lonely, self conscious, average looking, disatisfied, constantly seeking a man who will validate them or maybe even take them away from their lifestyle of trolling bars until it's time to go back to their shitty third story walk-up.

[DianaG]

Because men who fuck random women are studs who just want orgasms, but women who fuck random men are desperate and want "validation"?

Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, hon.

[Freudian Slit]

Because men who fuck random women are studs who just want orgasms, but women who fuck random men are desperate and want "validation"?

Yeah, it was that attitude I was picking up on in the thread about the 13 year old. (I'm going to try to link to it later.) Granted, I think we can all agree that a thirteen year old giving oral sex to guys to get them to like her is unhealthy. But I wasn't getting that attitude from the people at all--it was more like, "Do you really think guys respect you, etc." I don't know, I think that disturbed me more--it was less concern for someone potentially hurting themselves and more like guys will think of you as a used up piece of trash if you go around doing this.

And that surprised me because it wasn't "She could get an STI or pregnant"--it was no one respects her. And if she's a competent adult who can consent--why not?

[threnodyangelfire]

It's all about the 'why', and of course the girl's age makes a difference. I indulge in plenty of sexual behavior that I would not reccomend to a 13 year old. I've never met a 13 year old with an insatiable desire for cock, but I've known plenty with an insatiable desire for attention.

Sex for it's own sake is not degrading. Sex as a bartering tool is.

Wise wise words.

[TV time]

My problem with this whole discussion is that we are using damaging and degrading interchanbably, and we shouldn't (at least in my mind). The OP had damaging in the thread title and degrading in the text, and I think much of our problem arose from that.

Is it degrading? - oh, heck yes. That's probably why guys want her to do it (and maybe why she wants to do it). Is it damaging? - in the long run, probably not. In the short run maybe, but as she matures and realizes why she does it and why guys want her to do it, then probably not. I think the Annabel Chong reference was very revealing in relation to this.

[Freudian Slit]

The thread I mentioned. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=313652&highlight=stepdaughter+oral

Is it degrading if she genuinely wants to do it? I mean, apart from the opinions of assholes and proponents of the double standard?

[Illuminatiprimus]

The thread I mentioned. http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=313652&highlight=stepdaughter+oral

Is it degrading if she genuinely wants to do it? I mean, apart from the opinions of assholes and proponents of the double standard?I don't think I'm being patronising by saying that a 13 year old might not be completely clear for herself on the reasons she's engaging in such sex. I wouldn't say she couldn't be, just that she might not be. This isn't because I hold female sexuality in low regard, but because other people do and the consequences of this are the double standard.

As I said if it were my daughter I'd want to be clear she was having sex because she wanted to, not because she felt obligated to or thought that if she didn't the boy in question wouldn't like her.

[jackdavinci]

Well you could argue that it's a symptom of other problems, I don't think it's a problem in and of itself.

In the case of the football team, well, a school is a very particular sort of social environment. A woman giving a lot of guys blowjobs who are not otherwise part of her social life would not have the same consequences as a woman giving blowjobs to all the guys at her job.

And whether or not an act is actually degrading, the perception and judgement other people have about it can cause trouble.

[Der Trihs]

Frankly, I think that a guy who disdains a woman because she gives blowjobs is going to disdain her no matter what. If she doesn't, he'll call her an ice queen or prude; if he actually married her he'd be the sort who refers to his wife as "that bitch" to his like minded friends.

[Illuminatiprimus]

And whether or not an act is actually degrading, the perception and judgement other people have about it can cause trouble.That was a point I was trying (and failed) to make, thanks JD.

[Rubystreak]

I have to say that I have a similar concern about boys/men who will screw whatever girl offers herself for whatever act she will perform with him. I find it incredibly hard to fathom how naive/trusting/hard up some guys are-- you will put your dick into the tooth-lined mouth of a stranger? You'll have unprotected sex with a woman you don't know? Want to give that same "slut" 17% of your salary for 18-21 years and/or catch an incurable STD from her? Crazy, self-destructive stuff. Yet men do it, and laugh about it. You rarely hear similar issues about their lack of self-respect and self-regard, but it's just as unhealthy and worrisome, if not for their reputation, for their health and wallet.

[Lamia]

Yeah, it was that attitude I was picking up on in the thread about the 13 year old. (I'm going to try to link to it later.) Granted, I think we can all agree that a thirteen year old giving oral sex to guys to get them to like her is unhealthy. But I wasn't getting that attitude from the people at all--it was more like, "Do you really think guys respect you, etc." I don't know, I think that disturbed me more--it was less concern for someone potentially hurting themselves and more like guys will think of you as a used up piece of trash if you go around doing this.

And that surprised me because it wasn't "She could get an STI or pregnant"--it was no one respects her. And if she's a competent adult who can consent--why not?Looking at the thread in question now, it wasn't until midway through the third page that posters started expressing concern for the stepdaughter being degraded.

The shift in tone came after the OP revealed that his stepdaughter had described sex as "gross" but said she'd given her boyfriend a blowjob because "boys expect it if the girl is going to be seen as 'cool'". Until that point it HAD been concern about STDs, pregnancy, and the fact that the girl was too young to know what she was getting into. Once it became clear that the stepdaughter had become a giver of blowjobs just to seem "cool" to her peers, I think it was quite appropriate for people to express concern that she was degrading herself. There isn't anything inherently degrading about wanting to give or receive sexual pleasure, but being pressured into performing sex acts when you don't really want to do IS degrading. Especially when the "woman" in question is nowhere near being a competent adult but is a 7th grade girl.

Since the girl's stated goal was to win admiration from boys, I can understand posters pointing out that her method was going to backfire on her. I don't know that it would be a good idea for the girl to hear that from her mother or stepfather because that might reinforce the idea that she should be acting with the sole intent of winning approval from boys, but as far as I saw that didn't happen. I didn't read past page 3, so I don't know if the girl's parents made her wear a scarlet "BJ" or if posters started saying that adult women who enjoy giving blow jobs are all pathetic tramps. But judging from the first three pages, I think you misread the tone of the thread.

[Freudian Slit]

Well, granted, this is about a 13 year old, so I'm aware that sexual activity at that age probably isn't the best idea. But for example, the post down here by Martin Hyde isn't really about concern for the kid, but more about the idea that that kind of thing just makes a girl trashy, easy, etc. I guess that just disturbs me. Or the ideas espoused by msmith upthread. I can grok why (for a kid) sex is bad, I'm just curious about the attitude that she's degrading herself, she has no self-respect, etc.

When I went to junior high a girl that gave BJs at age 13 was called a slut and a whore behind her back. She got attention from the dirtbag guys that just want BJs and more. After getting used by a few guys like that, the girl is completely perceived as a whore and that's the end of it for her, she's a whore until she graduates high school and she'll only attract the dregs of the school population when it comes to guys. Not to mention she'll be socially outcast from many school groups.

That's not necessarily fair or right but that's just how it was where I went to school. I mean, the girls that started openly having sex in HS, that was one thing (although in HS well over 50% of the guys I knew were virgins, and trust me, a guy isn't going to say he's a virgin to another guy unless he really is) but the girls that slept around in junior high were socially ostracized.

[Lamia]

Well, granted, this is about a 13 year old, so I'm aware that sexual activity at that age probably isn't the best idea. But for example, the post down here by Martin Hyde isn't really about concern for the kid, but more about the idea that that kind of thing just makes a girl trashy, easy, etc.
I guess that just disturbs me. That's not how I take his post at all. It seems to me that he's just stating the harsh reality (at least at his school) that girls who have sex that young will not be treated well by their peers. He's concerned that the stepdaughter is going to wind up a pariah because of her misguided attempts to be "cool".

Or the ideas espoused by msmith upthread. I can grok why (for a kid) sex is bad, I'm just curious about the attitude that she's degrading herself, she has no self-respect, etc.I really don't know another way to think of a young girl who's trying to trade sexual favors for social acceptance. That IS pathetic and degrading, and I feel very sorry for any girl who thinks that little of herself. Women (and men) shouldn't have sex unless they actually want to have sex. I'd feel sorry for a grown woman who felt she had to have sex with men to make them like her, but it's really sad for such a young girl to have such an unhealthy attitude.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of 13 year olds having sex even under the best of circumstances, but the story in the linked thread would have disturbed me less if there had been any indication that the girl had enjoyed herself or had been acting out of her own sexual desire. But it certainly sounded like this was not the case.

[fisha]

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy sexual appetite. You can have one without being promiscuous.

Even if there is nothing inherently degrading about promiscuity, the attitudes of the participants can make it so.

[msmith537]

Because men who fuck random women are studs who just want orgasms, but women who fuck random men are desperate and want "validation"?

Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, hon.

I don't we mentioned anything about men, hon. But thanks for inventing something to get yourself worked up over.

First of all, I think the nature of the act makes it less degrading towards the man. He's not the one with a cock in his mouth and a bunch of spooge in his face.

And second, yeah, I wonder about a guy who constantly fucks random women, can't seem to maintain a relationship or even stay faithful to one woman. Sure, at first we're like "what a stud". But after a point it's like "why is this guy unable to maintain any real intimacy with women?"

Then again, some people just don't like having to pick one flavor of ice cream for the rest of their lives.


Freudian Slit - Remembering back to my younger days, I think whenever I met the type of girl wo had sex with the lacross team or an entire fraternity, I always got a vibe that she was trying to ingraciate herself into the group, no matter what. It always seemed based on status and not any particular love of sex.

[Skald the Rhymer]

I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, and I'll probably deserve it, but I'll give a qualified yes. It's not so much that promiscuity necessarily CAUSES damage, but I think excessive promiscuity is INDICATIVE of damage. Back in my unmitigated asshole days, when I was doing every woman I could, the ones who were least discriminating were always the ones who were hurting very badly inside. I don't mean to say that EJsGirl (to pick a name out of the thread) is suffering any trauma because she likes fucking; but girls who just can't say no have been hurt in some very traumatic fashion.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Because men who fuck random women are studs who just want orgasms, but women who fuck random men are desperate and want "validation"?

Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better, hon.

Men who fuck random women are often expressing some very disturbing and disturbed crap themselves.

[sjc]

I pretty strongly feel that there's nothing inherently degrading about promiscuous sex by men or women. At the same time I can see that it can at times come from an unhealthy place in the person.

[Yookeroo]

Please. The girl who goes around blowing the football team or banging half the guys in a fraternity house? No one respects her.

I might. Depends on why she's acting the way she does.

[Moirai]

I don't mean to say that EJsGirl (to pick a name out of the thread) is suffering any trauma because she likes fucking; but girls who just can't say no have been hurt in some very traumatic fashion.

No offense taken, don't worry. I agree that it is a question of motivation in many cases. A girl who is already damaged (self-esteem, abuse, whatever) and is merely acting things out could be additionally traumatized by her own sexual behavior.

But it's not that some girls "can't say no" just because we say "yes." :)

[DianaG]

I don't we mentioned anything about men, hon. But thanks for inventing something to get yourself worked up over.
Sorry, my knee was a little jerky yesterday.

First of all, I think the nature of the act makes it less degrading towards the man. He's not the one with a cock in his mouth and a bunch of spooge in his face.
I guess that depends on how you feel about cock and spooge. Personally, I'm a fan. Are you somehow degraded by giving oral sex? Because, again... I personally have never thought less of anyone for having my pussy all over their face. Isn't having contempt for people who have sex with you fundamentally self-loathing?

And second, yeah, I wonder about a guy who constantly fucks random women, can't seem to maintain a relationship or even stay faithful to one woman. Sure, at first we're like "what a stud". But after a point it's like "why is this guy unable to maintain any real intimacy with women?"

Then again, some people just don't like having to pick one flavor of ice cream for the rest of their lives.
I agree that it depends on the reason. Some people just aren't built for commitment, and some people have issues, and there's a fair amount of overlap. You can usually tell the difference, though.

Freudian Slit - Remembering back to my younger days, I think whenever I met the type of girl wo had sex with the lacross team or an entire fraternity, I always got a vibe that she was trying to ingraciate herself into the group, no matter what. It always seemed based on status and not any particular love of sex.
This I wholeheartedly agree with. Fucking the whole lacross team is one thing, but bragging about it is just tacky.