"Song of Ice and Fire" the TV Series [Archive]

Gukumatz

11-12-2008, 10:31 AM

It will be a tough series to make given the way the stories are told in the novels and the length of the books. Also, becuse of the time between publication the last couple of season may be ready before the books are published. However I will definitely get HBO when this airs.

I would like to go ahead and put forth Kate Walsh, formally of Grey's Anatomy as Cersei lannister.

As long as I get Jeremy Irons as Ned, I'm happy. (Or Clive Owen or Liam Neeson)

(Anyone but me thinking Gerald Butler might make a good Robert Baratheon?)

Jaime Lannister: Guy Pearce. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1967495424/nm0001602)
Because I really don't want to see Brad Pitt with long, red hair.

Tyrion Lannister: Peter Dinklage. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3273497344/nm0227759)

Tywin Lannister: Alan Dale. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3113654784/nm0197638)

Robert Baratheon: Brian Blessed. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1594662144/nm0000306)
Or, as I said, Gerald Butler. Buffed up to 300 size then let slag off a bit.

Stannis Baratheon: Thomas Jane. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1920636672/nm0005048)

Theon Greyjoy: Ian Somerhalder. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2507840256/nm0813812)

Gregor Clegane: Dave Batista. <Image> (http://sitemaker.umich.edu/psy457_tizzle/files/batista.jpg) [NSFW]

Sandor Clegane: Tyler Mane. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2014875904/nm0541932)

Jon Snow: Alexander Skarsgård. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4101084928/nm0002907) (The guy crouching.)

jayjay

11-12-2008, 10:36 AM

Peter Dinklage is a brilliant idea! And Alan Dale would be perfect as Tywin. Just look at his turn as Papa Meade on Ugly Betty.

I also like Guy Pearce as Jaime.

Who's a good crazy lady for whatshername...Lady Stark's sister? (It's been a while since I last read them...still waiting for aDwD to come out...)

Windwalker

11-12-2008, 10:57 AM

I'm a bit skeptical of any fantasy adaptation to any screen (small or big) since most of them turn out to be utter crap (and even Lord of the Rings was mildly disappointing in that the characters were mostly pretty shallow, with characterization sacrificed for unending combat scenes). Still, since HBO is behind the project, I have some amount of hope for it. Any network that gives us The Wire and Deadwood may be capable of not completely fucking it up like so many others have before.

As long as I get Jeremy Irons as Ned, I'm happy. (Or Clive Owen or Liam Neeson)

Damn, did you read my mind? Ned Stark definitely has Clive Owen (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1681299456/nm0654110) written all over his character, in at least my conception of his appearance.

Alessan

11-12-2008, 10:57 AM

I prefer Paul Bettany (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4181498624/nm0079273)as Jaime, myself.

Some of the choices above - especually Dinklage - are good, but actors like Iron or Blessed are much too old for the roles. Remember, Ned and Robert are both in their mid-thirties.

Zakalwe

11-12-2008, 11:05 AM

Remember, Ned and Robert are both in their mid-thirties.They both have sons in their teens (Ned's being in late teens). They also both married relatively later than normal due to the problems with Robert's sister. I would have said early-to-mid forties for both.

jayjay

11-12-2008, 11:17 AM

They both have sons in their teens (Ned's being in late teens).

Never mind. I forgot about Robb...I was thinking of Jon.

Alessan

11-12-2008, 12:06 PM

They both have sons in their teens (Ned's being in late teens). They also both married relatively later than normal due to the problems with Robert's sister. I would have said early-to-mid forties for both.

First of all, it was Ned's sister.

Second of all, do the math. Ned and Robert were both wards of Jon Arryn in the Vale when the war started - both of them around 18 years old, certainly no older than 20. We don't know how long the war lasted, but it couldn't have been more than a year or two. What we do know is that Robb Stark was born in the middle of the war, and Jon Snow was born at the very end. By the beginning of the first book, Robb and Jon were 16 and 15, respectively - it's stated quite clearly.

Add it all together, there's no way Ned and Robert could be older than 37; they're probably closer to 35. By the same logic, Jaime and Cersei are around 32-33, and Tyrion is no older than 25.

People grow up quickly in Westeros.

RogueRacer

11-12-2008, 12:16 PM

Jaime Lannister: Guy Pearce. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1967495424/nm0001602)
Because I really don't want to see Brad Pitt with long, red hair.
Weren't the Lannisters blond?

NAF1138

11-12-2008, 12:17 PM

I have always thought that the only way to do TSOIAF was as a TV series. The question is, will they do it right? And by right I mean each episode focusing on just a single character like they have it in the books, being willing to set up a cliffhanger with Danny and then leave her for 3-4 episodes while they deal with what is happening on the Wall, etc. Will they be willing to give people like Jamie and Tyrion equal time and focus and not just making them pure evil. I suppose they will have to with Jamie for later in the series, but in that case will they be willing to start with him being almost pure evil. Dropping Bran from the tower etc.

Actually, how they handle Bran falling from the tower will be telling. Will they have him simply slip and fall or will they actually show Jamie catching him and throwing him off? It should come early into the series, so...

Also how they pace the series will be interesting. Will they try to cover one chapter an episode (I think the chapters are all roughly episode length, with a few exceptions) or will they try to cover more ground?

It could be VERY bad, or it could be very good. I think how involved Martin is in the creation of the series will be a big determining factor in how well executed the series is.

KGS

11-12-2008, 12:57 PM

Weren't the Lannisters blond? Umm...wigs?

Actually, how they handle Bran falling from the tower will be telling. Will they have him simply slip and fall or will they actually show Jamie catching him and throwing him off? It should come early into the series, so... That's a tough one. Film & TV have a different narrative language than written novels, and simply reading about a man attempting to murder a young boy elicits a much different emotion than actually watching it happen on screen. It wouldn't surprise me if HBO toned that scene down just a little.

RogueRacer

11-12-2008, 01:01 PM

Umm...wigs?
No, I don't think the Lannisters were wearing wigs. ;)

Gukumatz said he didn't want to see Brad Pitt (as Jaime) with long red hair, implying Jaime had the same. I remembered them being blonds in the book and was looking for confirmation.

Zakalwe

11-12-2008, 01:25 PM

First of all, it was Ned's sister.

Second of all, do the math. Ned and Robert were both wards of Jon Arryn in the Vale when the war started - both of them around 18 years old, certainly no older than 20. We don't know how long the war lasted, but it couldn't have been more than a year or two. What we do know is that Robb Stark was born in the middle of the war, and Jon Snow was born at the very end. By the beginning of the first book, Robb and Jon were 16 and 15, respectively - it's stated quite clearly.

Add it all together, there's no way Ned and Robert could be older than 37; they're probably closer to 35. By the same logic, Jaime and Cersei are around 32-33, and Tyrion is no older than 25.

People grow up quickly in Westeros.After a quick look at the Westeros site, this is conceded. I had always pictured them as older, but your timeline makes sense.

AuntiePam

11-12-2008, 02:09 PM

From Martin's blog (reposted from SFF World):

"HBO has given the production order. They will be filming the pilot episode of A GAME OF THRONES.

It's just the pilot so far. They'll need to see that before they decide whether to proceed with a full season's episodes. So let's all hope the pilot will kick serious ass.

It should. David Benioff and Dan Weiss did a terrific job with the script. And yes, all of you can relax, it's very faithful. Dan and David will be the executive producers for the pilot and (we hope) the eventual series.

More details when I have 'em. The news is very fresh. HBO just issued their own press release, which should be up on their website soon, if it's not there already.

Winter is coming to HBO. Hot damn."

Squeee!!

Alessan, thanks for laying that out about the ages. I'd been picturing some of the characters as much older, particularly Tyrion.

Daddypants

11-12-2008, 03:17 PM

Gukumatz mentioned Brian Blessed as Robert Baratheon, which is exactly how I pictured Robert. However, Brian Blessed is to old.

Alessan mentioned some ages,a s well (one of the days, I have to learn how to use the quotes thing). I think I remeber in A Clash of Kings or A Storm of Swords it is implied that the Lannister twins are older than Ned and Robert, possibly in their late 30s.

The Tooth

11-12-2008, 03:21 PM

I hope each script is run past Martin before being filmed. For all we know, some peasant Brienne noticed in passing in A Storm of Swords is a major player in A Dance With Dragons or whatever the next book is called. HBO will have to be very careful when condensing the books.

Alessan

11-12-2008, 03:57 PM

Alessan mentioned some ages,a s well (one of the days, I have to learn how to use the quotes thing). I think I remeber in A Clash of Kings or A Storm of Swords it is implied that the Lannister twins are older than Ned and Robert, possibly in their late 30s.

I don't think so - Jaime was named a member of the Kingsguard at the Tournament at Harrenhal, where the whole mess started. He was absurdly young at the time - something like 15 or 16 years old. Ned and Robert were at least 2 or 3 years older, probably more.

Spectralist

11-12-2008, 04:24 PM

Martin plans seven books in the series. The producers intend for each season to span one novel.

Anyone know how many episodes make up a season? Isn't it only like 10-15? That doesn't sound like it will work out very well. And they'll almost certainly catch with Martin if they start it any time in the next few years. I wonder what they'll do if that happens.

WormTheRed

11-12-2008, 04:29 PM

Considering most shows don't run for seven seasons, I'm afraid that's something we don't have to worry about :(

I do wonder who they'll cast for Littlefinger. I'm not even sure how I picture him.

WormTheRed

11-12-2008, 04:31 PM

I don't think so - Jaime was named a member of the Kingsguard at the Tournament at Harrenhal, where the whole mess started. He was absurdly young at the time - something like 15 or 16 years old. Ned and Robert were at least 2 or 3 years older, probably more.

Was 15-16 really absurdly young back in the days? People grew up a lot faster back then, but I'm not sure how old noblemen usually were before they became knights.

jayjay

11-12-2008, 04:36 PM

Was 15-16 really absurdly young back in the days? People grew up a lot faster back then, but I'm not sure how old noblemen usually were before they became knights.

It wasn't that Jaime was knighted that young. It was that he was made a Kingsguard, which is above and beyond. He was the youngest ever chosen for the Kingsguard.

And for Petyr, I'd pick someone who played another Piter...Brad Dourif, if he weren't too old for the role. Littlefinger is supposed to be the same age or slightly younger than Catelyn or Lysa. A Brad Dourif type, perhaps.

Alessan

11-12-2008, 04:44 PM

And for Petyr, I'd pick someone who played another Piter...Brad Dourif, if he weren't too old for the role. Littlefinger is supposed to be the same age or slightly younger than Catelyn or Lysa. A Brad Dourif type, perhaps.

I don't know, Littlefinger is polished, charming and superintelligent. He's more of a Paul Rudd than a Brad Dourif.

WormTheRed

11-12-2008, 04:49 PM

It wasn't that Jaime was knighted that young. It was that he was made a Kingsguard, which is above and beyond. He was the youngest ever chosen for the Kingsguard.

That's true. Which means he had to be knighted a while before that.

I really need to re-read them all.

And for Petyr, I'd pick someone who played another Piter...Brad Dourif, if he weren't too old for the role. Littlefinger is supposed to be the same age or slightly younger than Catelyn or Lysa. A Brad Dourif type, perhaps.

Someone in that direction, maybe ;) I'll have to think about it a bit more.

Tamerlane

11-12-2008, 05:09 PM

I've said it before, I'll say it again - Ian McShane as Roose Bolton. Played similar to his mob boss character in Sexy Beast. Nobody does calculating, dead-eyed, terrifyingly cold-blooded as well as McShane.

Rubystreak

11-12-2008, 05:38 PM

Jon Snow: Alexander Skarsgård. <Image> (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4101084928/nm0002907) (The guy crouching.)

Jon Snow is about 14 when the series starts. They need a kid actor. Now, Alexander Skargard as Jaime Lannister, that I can imagine.

gallows fodder

11-12-2008, 06:21 PM

Someone on LJ suggested Halle Berry's partner, Gabriel Aubry (http://socialitelife.celebuzz.com/images/2007/12/header_120307_03.jpg), for Jaime. I dig it. ("But can he act?" Who cares?! Look at that smirk and those green eyes!)

Merneith

11-12-2008, 06:45 PM

Terrific! This means GRRM has to finish Dance with Dragons in the next three years to meet the shooting schedule! (Dragons is book 5 and is actually more like book 4.5 since he couldn't fit everything he wanted into book 4.)

$5 says he never makes it. ;)

Springtime for Spacers

11-12-2008, 06:55 PM

I've always had the impression that GOT years are a bit longer than earth years. And I'm really intererested in seeing this.

WormTheRed

11-13-2008, 12:44 AM

It just came to me now. I propose Bradley Whitford (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0925966/)for Littlefinger. But that might just be since I've just finished season 7 of the West Wing.

I think he'd be a darn good fit.

Alessan

11-13-2008, 01:18 AM

Very interesting choice. One reason Petyr's character is so great is that he's the most modern character in the series, even more so than Tyrion - in many ways, he's a 20th-century political operator caught in a world of knights and warlords. The reason he always ends up on top is that he cares as little about such medieval concepts as personal loyalty, honor and the warrior code as today's politicians. Casting an actor associated with the modern political machine would perfectly encapsulate this sort of character..

WormTheRed

11-13-2008, 01:55 AM

Just Some Guy

11-13-2008, 04:07 AM

While the characters may be young don't expect them to be cast that way. The older Stark children will by necessity be cast at their young twenties and might be playing late teens. Yes it's both more faithful and more realistic to have them younger but viewers wouldn't accept a fifteen year old doing those things.

Alessan

11-13-2008, 04:14 AM

sturmhauke

11-13-2008, 04:32 AM

thwartme

11-13-2008, 06:28 PM

I will be disappointed at not seeing a preteen Arya stabbing dudes with a rapier, but I won't be too surprised if they cast someone older. If nothing else, it will be difficult to find kids of the proper age (or at least look it) who can act well enough.

The shooting schedule might be an issue as well. Supposedly, the first four novels all take place in a period of roughly two years (last entry here (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Timeline_of_major_events)). Cast a 15 year old now, and then shoot four seasons on an HBO schedule. The last four seasons of Sopranos spanned 6 years in real time. So your "15 year old" is now actually 21. Think of what happened with Waaaaaalt on Lost...

Anyway, I'm gonna watch it. I'm less concerned with casting then I am with the look and feel of the thing. I wanna see blood and sex and violence and grit, I don't want it softened in any way. When some of the characters died, I had a genuine, non-metaphorical gut reaction. I better get at least that from the series.

But as long as we're casting... Kari Matchett (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0558182/) as Cersei.

thwartme

Rubystreak

11-13-2008, 06:59 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the public isn't quite prepared to see a 13-year-old Dany having sex with a 30-something Dhrogo. In fact, I think there are laws against showing that kind of thing.

I suppose I'd be willing to accept these kind of changes as neccessary. Different medium and all that.

How did they make not one but two movies of Lolita? It's TV, not real life. I'm sure the actress won't be 13 but will play 13. Also, it won't work if Arya is not credibly played by a kid, and yes, she kills people.

lee

01-04-2009, 10:28 AM

I think Tony Shaloub would be great as Davos.

Nicole Kidman would do a great as Melisandre.

Lantern

01-04-2009, 10:45 AM

It sounds interesting though I think SOIAF is more suited to animation than live-action ; and this will be more so for the later books which will presumably feature full-fledged dragon action. I am not sure that live-action on a TV budget could do justice to big battles and exotic cities.

I think there is a potential niche on television for an epic animation series perhaps bringing together Japanese animators with US scriptwriters and working with a somewhat bigger budget than the typical anime series. A lot of classic science fiction and fantasy would work great in this format and there is definitely an existing, DVD-buying audience for this kind of show. If anyone could pull it off it would be HBO.

schnuckiputzi

01-04-2009, 01:56 PM

I would definitely subscribe to HBO if this came to life. But they should probably publish a handy pop-up, fold-out guide to who's who, because if people haven't read the books, they're going to be lost after a while. I had to keep checking back in previous chapters to keep myself on track. Or maybe I'm just easily distracted.

Knowed Out

01-04-2009, 06:43 PM

But as long as we're casting... Kari Matchett (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0558182/) as Cersei.

I took one look at the upper left picture and thought Icy Bitch. She's perfect.

Baldwin

01-04-2009, 07:38 PM

What are the books like? I've got some kind of prejudice against Martin, and can't remember why.

jayjay

01-04-2009, 07:58 PM

What are the books like? I've got some kind of prejudice against Martin, and can't remember why.

Gritty. Very gritty. Martin isn't afraid to kill off what seems like a major character. And really, there aren't very many NICE people in his universe. The characters that look like they're going to be heroes you end up not liking very much, and the characters that you're sure you're going to hate when they first show up end up having depths that make them unhateable (but not necessarily likable).

In the end, it's actually a more compelling read for that...there isn't any such thing as black and white in Martin's world. It's ALL gray of varying shades.

lee

01-04-2009, 08:51 PM

What distinguishes the books from others that I have read, is that the author kills off characters at the drop of a hat. When I reread it, I can see some foreshadowing, but not always. The deaths are not unreasonable, but is is startling when a main character just up and dies or is killed or maimed. He is not afraid to let things change as the book continues.

The series is in a world where they have a seasonal cycle which is longer than their years, so They may have several years of summer, with harvests each year, followed by as many years of winter. When winter comes and how long it will last is not precisely predictable. Technology is to the point they have plate armor but not electrics. The main society in the first book is set along feudal lines. There are at least three religions, one which resembles Christianity in some ways, such as having a celibate priesthood, has 7 gods, the father, the mother, the warrior, the maiden, the smith, the crone, and the stranger. the other prominent religion is based on the old gods which are worshiped in groves which had a tree with a face on its trunk.

In the northern most part of the main continent there is a wall manned by a celibate militia. Its purpose is to hold back the Others, and anything past the wall is considered wilderness and the people there are considered barbarians. The Others are clearly some kind of supernatural bad guys. Since they are confined above the wall, and have not made noise beyond it in many a year, some, even some in the militia guarding the wall, clearly believe they are not real. There are other religions which become more prominent as the book progresses.

Another part of the society is the Maestros, a celibate priesthood who serve knowledge rather than a god. Each Maestro studies many areas of knowledge and are granted merit badges in the form of links in a chain, each one being made of something different.

And there were dragons, but at the start of the story, they have passed from the world, apparently all killed off.

AuntiePam

01-04-2009, 09:21 PM

What are the books like? I've got some kind of prejudice against Martin, and can't remember why.

That is puzzling. Maybe because it's taking him so long to finish the series? If you haven't read the books, that wouldn't bother you, but maybe some of our disgruntlement has filtered through. :)

Frank

01-04-2009, 09:27 PM

I think how involved Martin is in the creation of the series will be a big determining factor in how well executed the series is.
That's all he needs: one more excuse not to sit down and finish writing the fucking books.

Alessan

01-05-2009, 01:25 AM

Gritty. Very gritty. Martin isn't afraid to kill off what seems like a major character. And really, there aren't very many NICE people in his universe. The characters that look like they're going to be heroes you end up not liking very much, and the characters that you're sure you're going to hate when they first show up end up having depths that make them unhateable (but not necessarily likable).

In the end, it's actually a more compelling read for that...there isn't any such thing as black and white in Martin's world. It's ALL gray of varying shades.

Another reason for the grittiness is that more than any other fantasy story I've ever read, it's actually set in a fairly accurate simulacrum of the European Middle Ages. With everything that implies: the class structure, the gender inequality, the general cheapness of life; all the things that most fantasy writers - starting with Tolkien - have taken great pains to smooth out. It shows teenaged girls forced to marry they moment they begin to menstruate, it shows commoners suffering while great armies pass through their lands, it shows just how negotiable the concept of "honor" is to anointed knights.

Still, lest you think the series is all grit and gloom, their are also moments of laughter, compassion, kindness and even glory. In a way, it's the fullest fantasy story I've ever read. Everything the genre has to offer is there.

That's all he needs: one more excuse not to sit down and finish writing the fucking books.

A-fucking-men.

Just Some Guy

01-05-2009, 06:26 AM

Another reason for the grittiness is that more than any other fantasy story I've ever read, it's actually set in a fairly accurate simulacrum of the European Middle Ages. With everything that implies: the class structure, the gender inequality, the general cheapness of life; all the things that most fantasy writers - starting with Tolkien - have taken great pains to smooth out. It shows teenaged girls forced to marry they moment they begin to menstruate, it shows commoners suffering while great armies pass through their lands, it shows just how negotiable the concept of "honor" is to anointed knights.

Which was the only reason I was able to get into the books. I can't stand fantasy novels set in a medieval world where the society is about as realistic as a Renaissance festival. That goes double for when the point-of-view character takes care to explain that they're really hold modern day western views but just happen to live in a feudal society.

Elendil's Heir

01-05-2009, 08:39 AM

...Another part of the society is the Maestros, a celibate priesthood who serve knowledge rather than a god. Each Maestro studies many areas of knowledge and are granted merit badges in the form of links in a chain, each one being made of something different....

Nitpick: They're maesters. A maestro leads the Westeros Symphony. ;)

Agreed that Paul Bettany would make a great Jaime.

My suggestion for Tywin Lannister: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001772/

And for Arya Stark: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1113550/

Brienne is one of my favorite characters, but I can't think of any gawky, butt-ugly actresses of the right age. They don't tend to get much work in Hollywood these days....

Merijeek

01-05-2009, 09:44 AM

Nitpick: They're maesters. A maestro leads the Westeros Symphony. ;)

Agreed that Paul Bettany would make a great Jaime.

My suggestion for Tywin Lannister: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001772/

And for Arya Stark: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1113550/

Brienne is one of my favorite characters, but I can't think of any gawky, butt-ugly actresses of the right age. They don't tend to get much work in Hollywood these days....

There was the man/woman thing in the latest episode of The Sarah Connor Chronicles. I'm still not sure if it was a man playing a woman playing a man playing a woman or some iteration thereof.

-Joe

jayjay

01-05-2009, 08:17 PM

Ooh! Even better for Tywin: Alan Dale (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0197638/)

Rubystreak

01-05-2009, 08:42 PM

My pick for Jamie Lannister: Alexander Skarsgard. (http://www.serienjunkies.de/news/1388d813.jpg) And he could even sorta be a possibility, since HBO likes to recast the same actors over and over.

DemonSpawn

01-06-2009, 07:48 AM

Brienne is one of my favorite characters, but I can't think of any gawky, butt-ugly actresses of the right age. They don't tend to get much work in Hollywood these days....

How about Robin Weigert (Calamity Jane from Deadwood)?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0917848/

She is actually quite pretty, but not afraid to play butt-ugly.

Alessan

01-06-2009, 10:07 AM

How about Robin Weigert (Calamity Jane from Deadwood)?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0917848/

She is actually quite pretty, but not afraid to play butt-ugly.

Her looks are good, but she's too old (Brienne is barely out of her teens, if that), and much too short. Brienne is supposed to be massive - as tall as Jaime, and bigger around the shoulders. Frankly, I can't think of any actress with that body type.